The British honours system is an odd throwback to another age which the Labour government in recent years has tried to make relevant, if only to use it as a propaganda tool to make people feel good about the establishment. Hence many TV entertainers have been given honours which reflect the fact they are popular, rather than because they have achieved a great deal. To put that into medieval terms, the King has been knighting jesters in addition to those who have fought well in battle. Thus, for example, the Formula 1 commentator Murray Walker was appointed to the same order as Lewis Hamilton, but at a higher grade – which I find scandalous, although I should add that I love Murray dearly. To me it is disgraceful that Ron Dennis has only been recognised with what they call a CBE (a Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire) while others with similar achievement levels have been knighted. I used to think that Max Mosley deserved something too but, alas, his adventures in recent years have made him rather less of a role model than once perhaps he was. Bernie Ecclestone has also never received any recognition for what he has achieved, although some would argue that controversial businessmen such as Tiny Rowland and Robert Maxwell were never honoured, although others such as Freddie Laker and Richard Branson were. There seems no rhyme nor reason to the honours system. Ken Tyrrell won three World Championships with Jackie Stewart and received no recognition at all. Adrian Newey has achieved fantastic results in F1 with three different teams but there has been no official recognition for that. Patrick Head and John Barnard also did great things but were left unrecognised by the government.
I would hope that we will soon hear that Jenson Button has been recognised for his World Championship. Traditionally Formula 1 World Champions earned the Officer rank in the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. This was the case with Jack Brabham, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, Graham Hill, Nigel Mansell and Damon Hill. Alain Prost was the recipient of a rare OBE to a foreigner in 1994. Last year, however, Lewis Hamilton was granted only Member status (which is below Officer) when he won his World Championship. If Jenson Button is granted Officer status the government will thus have left itself wide open for criticism. For many years John Surtees was honoured only with an MBE until 2008 when someone woke up to the fact that he deserved rather more being the only man ever to win World Championships on two and four wheels.
I have no problems with Brawn being recognised with a similar level of award but anything more than that would be wrong given those who have been passed over. I am all for racing people being honoured, indeed I think there should be more of it given the achievements of the British motorsport industry, but if this is to happen then the distribution of awards must be fair and balanced.
According to the government knighthoods are awarded for “a pre-eminent contribution in any field of activity, through achievement or service to the community usually, but not exclusively, at national level or in a capacity which will be recognised by peer groups as inspirational and significant nationally and which demonstrates sustained commitment”. The CBE is awarded for “a prominent national role of a lesser degree or a conspicuous leading role in regional affairs, through achievement or service to the community or making a highly distinguished, innovative contribution in his or her area of activity”, while the OBE is for “a distinguished regional or country-wide role in any field through achievement or service to the community including notable practitioners known nationally” and the MBE for “achievement or service in and to the community of a responsible kind which is outstanding in its field or very local ‘hands-on’ service which stands out as an example to others”.
Among others who have been recognised over the years for their achievements in motorsport are knighthoods for Jack Brabham, Frank Williams, Jackie Stewart and Stirling Moss; CBEs for Lotus boss Colin Chapman, Cooper’s John Cooper, March’s Robin Herd, David Richards (Prodrive) and Dennis. There were OBEs for George Eyston, Cosworth founder Keith Duckworth and Professor Sid Watkins and rally driver turned team owner Malcolm Wilson, plus MBEs for the likes of John Watson (who never won the World Championship), Eric Broadley, the founder of Lola and multiple Le Mans 24 Hours winner Derek Bell, plus similar awards for Colin McRae and Roger Clark. Richard Burns was never honoured.
These days I thought Honours were dished out by the DG of the BBC.
And can two people be knighted as one? If so I don’t think it will be long before we get Sir Ant & Dec!!!
There has never been any rhyme or reason to the modern honours system… indeed I would suggest there never has been at all, as it all about showing favour to the favourites of those in the position to grant the honours. With the ‘newspapers’ being deemed to be the ‘voice of the people’ in that mad country, the (dis-)United Kingdom, then the populist approach to national honours in the inevitable outcome.
Of course, it is the broadcast & newsprint media that treat said ‘newspapers’ as ‘the voice’, in addition to their weak lackeys in Westminster. It’s a vicious circle of bullying and subservience maintained by those with the loudest voices, the deepest pockets and the least integrity.
I left five years ago, and have no intention of returning.
Although a foreigner, but a dedicated McLaren fan, I have also wondered why Ron Dennis wasn’t given some more Honours. Apart from his great contribution to motorsport, his company stuck to the UK whereas he easily could have moved the company to more tax friendly area’s. McLaren is an innovative company and creates a lot of jobs for different university graduates and others. In comparison with others from the world of motorsports, who were knighted, I think Ron should have been amongst them.
Submitted by Robert Sinfield in 2008, his “Knight Ron petition” was signed 941 times. (http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/KnightRon/ )
But you british people can still nominate him –> http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/UKgovernment/Honoursawardsandmedals/TheUKHonourssystem/index.htm
Plse do
I think Ron Dennis disqualified himself in much the same way Max Mosley did for his role in the messes of 2007, 2008 and (probably) 2009 as well.
Maybe Ron will redeem himself somewhat .if he successfully launched a genuine British rival to Ferrari.
However it is hard to reconcile a knighthood for someone involved in two or three of the most cynical controversies to hit F1.
Max Mosley, whether or not he’s a spanker and a tyrant, has through his efforts saved many, many lives. This for me makes him a strong candidate for honour than even Ron.
Fairest thing I can see is that in a few years both receive some sort of recognition of their contribution to the sport and Britain generally. Because they both may be tainted greats, they are still greats nonetheless.
Aaron,
It really depends on how you look at 2007… We obviously have different views on the subject.
Can’t see bernie accepting one can you? Doesn’t mean he was never offered one.
I believe Button will get an MBE just like Lewis did.
http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=354202&FS=F1
Goes to show who the Labour Lovies are and who are not.
I’d prefer they actually scrapped the whole thing…
It’s either awards for people who’ve already made it or the hangers on in the civil service.
Scrap the lot and replace it with awards for civilian and military bravery, no more, no less.
Andy
I am not a fan of the honours system as it is little more than an old boys club with addition of a popularity generator on the side. When civil sevants are given honours for nothing more than doing their overpaid jobs and keeping their mouths shut you have to question if there is any value to the system.
Motor racing has been generally treated badly by the honours system with many deserving cases not being honoured or in the case of Jackie Stewart not getting the honour he deserved until several decades after the due date.
Clearly Ron Dennis deserves a knighthood for the business he has built but for me the most deserving case in F1 is Prof Watkins. He should get one for all his non-motor racing work. What he has done for F1 is an add on. Stewart for me was similar. Yes he won three championships and set a record for the number of race wins but his safety work on its own was worthy of recognition and his career results were a bonus.
Joe They gave an MBE to Paul Collingwood for playing in the winning test against us in 2005. He scored 17 runs in 2 innings in the one test he played in that Ashes series. Says everything about your “honours” system to me. Agree that Ronzo should receive something at least for his services to the English language, perhaps. Happy New Year look forward to more of the same next year.
While I think the aftermath was a bit ridiculous, the fundamental point about spy-gate, is that it could have been avoided.
Ron Dennis knew about Stepney. And he didn’t advise Ferrari or the FIA about it.
Basically had he nipped it in the bud there and then, what was to follow could have been avoided.
Whether he (or indeed McLaren) had any culpability or to what degree in the mess that followed is up for debate.
But for me, I just think had Ron shown a bit more leadership right at the get go a lot of what happened could have been avoided.
Whether it was his responsibility to let Ferrari know they had someone gone rogue, or indeed if the tables were turned whether Ferrari would let McLaren know, all that is up for debate.
But Spygate could have been stopped, and it could have been stopped by Ron. And for that, I do hold him responsible for what was to follow.
Aaron James
As I said before we do not agree on what happened in 2007.
What about a gong for Nigel S?
Aaron, whatever Ron & McLaren did, or did not do, there are far too many other similar cases (cough, Renault, cough) that resulted in little or no punishment to indicate that there was far more to the outcomes in 2007 than that which had anything to do with corporate espionage.
That, and my previous comments about the honours system aside, Ron is definitely one of the missed candidates, but absolutely have to second Steven Roy’s nomination of Prof Sid Watkins!!
Aaron,
I have read all the FIA transcripts relating to both spying cases. At no point was it shown that any member of the McLaren senior management was aware of what was going on. Charlie Whiting took a team into Woking for two weeks and found not a single scrap of paper that came from Ferrari and not a single Ferrari file. Compare that to what he found when he spent a day and a half alone at Renault.
Also remember that Stepney said he was feeding info into Ferrari that he had received from Coughlin but Max decided not to investigate that and he also refused to investigate Toyota when they had two ex-Ferrari engineers jailed for taking data to Toyota. There are other cases including a team principal who handed a Toro Rosso document to and FIA representative in the paddock to prove that the car was in fact a Red Bull. For some reason the FIA didn’t investigate that.
Nice to see the Max Mosley safety myth being peddled again. The biggest contributor to driver safety is the carbon fibre monocoque and the man who took the risk on introducing that was Ron Dennis. Max has meddled with safety but almost all the hard work was done before he was in office. Before Ratzenberger and Senna died we had not had a fatality at a GP in 12 years. By no co-incidence it was around this time that the carbon monocoque was introduced.
As always I am prepared to be proved wrong but I have never seen anyone list Max’s contributions to safety and until I do I refuse to believe that he made a significant contribution. As far as I can see the biggest contributions he made were the introduction of Tilke circuits which are slow and impossible to overtake on and the insistence on unnecessaty pit stops so positions changed without cars having to overtake each other. Neither of these is praiseworthy.
Steven Roy,
I agree with your remarks about the McLaren Affair. I also agree that the introduction of the composite monocoque (by John Barnard) was a key element in motorsport safety. I think Max did a great deal for both motorsport safety and road safety – the latter is obviously of more significance to people in the “real world”. I am not sure that motorsport safety is considered that important by the powers-that-be in government – as it took forever for Sid Watkins to get any recognition.
Max Moseley in the Honors list?
Can the son of a hereditary peer be given such an accolade?
I confess I don’t know, but it would seem a bit odd to me.
Robbiemeister,
If you read the list you can find that Lords can be given OBEs and MBEs for services to the community – or whatever.
Steven Roay,
Actually, the Carbon Fibre monocoque was introduced in F1 in 1981 by McLaren. This was 13 years before Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger were killed at Imola in May, 1994
I think Max Mosely’s claim to faim ( apart from the whipping) was to introduce new rules every couple of years, that were guaranteed to actually increase the costs, rather than reduce then.
When MM came into power in 1991, we had 3.5 liter F1 cars with V8, V10 and V12 engines.. made it interesting. Then it became V10′s and finally V8s. 3.0 liter just after Senna was killed to reduce horsepower. Finally now to 2.4 liter V8 and no tuning changes.
It just goes on and on… It would be a nightmare trying to make up a spreadsheet documenting the changes to F1 from 1991 to 2009.
Anyway, best wishes to all for 2010, and Joe , please keep up the good work.
I have to admit that the introduction of Carbon-fibre monocoques was a massive improvement in safety, along with rubber bladder fuel cells. Far too many drivers died a fiery death, and this largely stopped it. In fact, if anyone with far more detailed knowledge than me wants to write a very interesting book, this would be a good subject for it. And, although he was by no means the first, or even the most important person in this respect, I think Max Mosley would come out well.
Joe,
I don’t dispute what Max has done for road safety. I only dispute the claim that he made a particulary signifcant contribution to race safety. I think people like Jackie Stewart and Sid Watkins did far more but I keep reading about Max making a great contribution without any part of that contribution being identified.
Peter G,
I think you misunderstood my comment. I know the carbon monocoque was introduced in 1981. My point is that it is no co-incidence that the last fatality before Ratzenberger was 1982. Once everyone had carbon monocoques the cars became so safe we had 12 years between fatalities and 15 years since the last one.
John Barnard’s knowledge of carbon fibre combined with Ron Dennis’s decision to back him made a far bigger contribution to the safety of the sport than anything Max did. Of course Andrea de Cesaris’s one man crash test program manged to convince the doubters. The fact he was still breathing half way through that season meant no-one could dispute the benefits over aluminium honeycomb.
“robbiemeister
Max Moseley in the Honors list?
Can the son of a hereditary peer be given such an accolade?
I confess I don’t know, but it would seem a bit odd to me.”
Max’s father was a baronet, not an hereditary peer and Max, as the younger son did not inherited the title.
Joe, do you feel that motorsport people are overly concerned about recognition in the New Years’ and/or Birthday Honours Lists? Surely being acknowledged as a genius in your field by your peers is more important.