The appearance – albeit a relatively low profile one – of former Indianapolis Motor Speedway boss Tony George at the Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai at the weekend, turned a few heads. George has seen his situation change dramatically since Formula 1 last visited Indiana in 2007. At the end of June last year he was removed from his various roles by other members of the Hulman-George family, unhappy that the businesses involved were not making enough money. The F1 experiment was costly, but nothing compared to the IndyCar Series which George had been funding since 1996. This was costing at least $20m a year. Initially he stayed on the boards of the various companies but in January found that too frustrating and quit. His goal was to run his own Vision Racing team, but not long after that decision Vision suspended operations, leaving Tony with nothing to do.
George has long enjoyed a good relationship with Bernie Ecclestone and back in 2003 he did a very smart deal and acquired the rights to host any event called “The United States Grand Prix at…” from Ecclestone. At the time this was to protect his investment in a US Grand Prix at Indianapolis, but since then it seems it has given him a new option for a business.
For the moment there is no hint as to where this might be but it is clear that Ecclestone is very keen on a race in the New York area. He is under pressure to get into the United States as quickly possible, but he is not going to give the race away.
George would say only that he was “on holiday”, although this was not a very credible explanation as he was accompanied by a group of sponsors, who may be planning to get involved.
It was clear that George and Bernie Ecclestone had business to do… also involved is wheeler-dealer Zak Brown, of the JMI company, seen here with Ecclestone and George.
Interesting those three… specially Bernie, with his own personalized coat!
About the issue on the blog: returning to the 80′s, when the USGP were in the center of cities such as Detroit, Dallas, Long Beach and Phoenix, I think didn’t make good to this sport on America. A conventional circuit, in Laguna Seca, for example, would be the ideal, but when I think about it, I remerber that probably it would be “destroyed” by Herr Hermann Tilke…
So, what we see here is this: the return of the USGP will pass on three things: Bernie Ecclestone, Tony George and a city center, somewhere in the US. Back to the 80′s… again!
Oh my…
A race in The U.S.
I have talked to a number of people that want this to happen.
Let us race here again…
Regarding a GP in the NY-metro area near NYC as Bernie envisions….I just don’t see it happening unless Bernie not only knows, but greases the skids of all the politicians, crime bosses, and labor unions in the area. Building something on the scale of a modern F1 facility in NY-NJ will be near impossible for anyone…including Bernie. I just don’t see it happening.
I’d love to see a GP in Miami however….I just think that area makes the most sense, as it has all the prerequisites for an F1 weekend….glitz, glamor, nice weather and plenty of high-class hotels and restaurants.
Thanks for the tip Joe…..just another reason why you, along with a few good friends of mine, are at the top of the F1 journalist order
Call me crazy, but I have always had a feeling that, with his personal empire having run out of gas over the past few years, Tony George would re-emerge somewhere in connection with a new USGP. Even with all of the very dumb mistakes he has made, TG is no idiot, and I would not be surprised if he was behind some deal to bring back F1 to my beloved U.S. of A. in the near future……
I know this flies in the face of Mr. E’s business, but why doesn’t he sign 5 year deals or longer but have the first year go free to allow incentive for the hosts to invest in the infrastructure. He could then balance out the costs of this first year to subsequent years.
Now this is just one idea of how to give NY or wherever to drop some money in to building something halfway decent without having to pay out FOM $20 million the first year. It is certainly a no go when they are asked to put up $80 million to build something then $20 million for the first year’s race. Its an idea, but then again it would make it too easy for places to give F1 a shot. We wouldn’t want that. Then again nothing says he has to offer this to every new venue, just those he needs, read USA. This could start a bidding war, or even get an existing track to upgrade.
On a related note, assuming Tony and Zak are flying back here to America, I assure they have a much easier ride ahead of them than the rest of the guests in Shanghai….
Just kidding- all the best to the many F1 folk who are trying to get home during a busy and crazy time. Travel safe everyone!
Ah yes… FTG… The man most responsible for the sorry state of AOWR and the simultaneous rise of NASCAR’s popularity. Stupid is as stupid does and FTG does nothing but stupid…
Joe,
F1 has a long way to go before it can succeed in America. First, there is antipathy on the part of the American racing spectator. Football is tops, and anyone who watches racing tends to go for Nascar. As much as I love F1, these are the facts of life.
So, in that environment, F1 must find sufficient cash to promote a race and possibly build a circuit. It will need to generate sponsorship (which George never did, despite having the most recognizable name in American racing), although most corporate spending on racing goes to Nascar.
The event also must be priced at a point that brings bodies into seats. It will do no good for F1 to hold an event and then price tickets out of reach. Americans remember the tire debacle and that is pretty much the last they saw of F1.
Against that backdrop, I think Bernie is kidding himself with Tony George. The Indy 500 is a shadow of its former self, and these guys propose an F1 race in the US? I will believe it when USF1 takes the grid.
Not exactly a sartorial explosion, is it?
Is that the same Zak Brown who is driving an Audi R8 in the British GT series?
I believe so
The USGP at NEWARK ! Well I guess it cannot be worse than Valencia and at least I can go to that one and tickets will be cheap…
I think the Meadowlands Grand Prix would work out OK, actually. The circuit itself will probably be fairly dire, but presumably no worse than any other Tilke street circuit, and if there’s no chance of a proper circuit like Watkins Glen, Sears Point or Barber, one temporary Tilkedrome is as good as another, I guess. It could be called the US Grand Prix at New York City (although this will not help to encourage New Jersey politicians to make the contributions that Bernie requires), there will be the appropriately beautiful TV shots of Manhattan across the back straight, and with tens of millions of people within a two-hour drive, the attendance would probably be pretty good. There’s even a decent spot in the calendar without too much disruption if Turkey goes and it’s slotted in before Montreal. So that’s all settled then.
whats which the giant B on Bernie’s jacket?
Should have bought the Long Beach event when it was on sale for only US$15 million.
Fingers crossed that we will see the return of the USGP by 2012.
My preference of tracks would be
1) Laguna Seca
2) Indianapolis Motor Speedway
3) Street Circuit in Las Vegas / New York area / California.
There used to be races at Long Beach, Detroit and Watkins Glen in the past, but now nothing. Even when F1 arrives in the US it doesn’t give them the real deal – the tyre debacle in Indianapolis in 2005 was an example. And I was never a fan of the Indianapolis event at all.
There are so many great road courses in the US where it would be great for F1 to visit, including the recently developed Barber Motorsports Park. But Mr. Ecclestone will think of a race not necessarily at a venue that’s extremely good for the sport, but at a venue whose organizers can help him make the profit he dreams of.
I also agree with Scott Bloom. F1 has a serious image cleansing to do in the US, and NASCAR is undoubtedly the most competitive form of motorsport out there. With the US single-seater scene a pale shadow of its former glory, it won’t be easy for F1 to attract fans.
That said, there seems to be a resurgence of interest in IndyCar recently, and with multiple engine and chassis makers it could become the F1 of America. As for Tony George, he was responsible for ruining single-seater racing in the US, causing a split in CART when it was at the height of its glory. Really miss those days when Montoya, de Ferran, Kanaan, Fernandez, Fittipaldi, Andretti, Tracy, Vasser and other great names battled it out.
people keep fantasizing about a USGP at a place like laguna seca or barber. as has been pointed out many times, legauna seca can in no way accommodate the type of racing that can be produced from modern F1 equipment. it’s just not gonna happen. unless you’re running a ’79 lotus, leguna seca is not suited for F1.
the same can be said about barber. the course is attractive on TV, as evidenced by the indy race there, but that while that track may be ok for moto gp or sports cars, it’s also totally inappropriate for F1. there wasn’t much action from the indy cars there either. plus it’s too short.
and look at the indy race in long beach. i don’t think there was one pass for position in that entire race. it won’t work. while the location may be desirable, the cars have outgrown the course and would long beach REALLY be willing to shout down its streets twice a year for racing? doubt it.
since there will only be one F1 race in the US, the organizers MUST make it a destination event. they have to get people to travel from around the country to attend. the city holding the race has to be attractive and contain additional reasons to attend. i have been to MANY NASCAR races, and since there are 36 of them the attendance for nearly all of those races is regional. NASCAR’s huge fan base can bring out 100,000 from the states surrounding the race. but F1′s currently limited appeal necessitates a grand, destination-based event. miami makes sense. NYC makes sense. watkins glen (can’t race there currently anyway for safety reasons) does NOT. road america does NOT.
the location of the race will be a business decision FIRST, a racing decision SECOND.
Bernie’s found a usual idiot in Tony . If Tony lost money at the track he ran, how can he foresee making money somewhere else?
^that should be “useful”
“(irl) was costing at least $20m a year. ”
i have heard this rumored a few times but you pass it on as FACT, do you know something the IndyCar journalist don’t?
“As for Tony George, he was responsible for ruining single-seater racing in the US, causing a split in CART when it was at the height of its glory. Really miss those days when Montoya, de Ferran, Kanaan, Fernandez, Fittipaldi, Andretti, Tracy, Vasser and other great names battled it out.”
CART was going downhill before the IRL started. They just didn’t know it yet. It’s a myth spread by people that think oval racing is full of rednecks that Tony George was the sole responsible person for CART’s demise (he played a part, as much a part as Andrew Craig, Roger Penske, and Carl Haas to be honest).
Look at the products of NASCAR and CART in 1993. NASCAR had the established “Michael Schumacher” star in Dale Earnhardt, but they just got this new young hotshot rookie named Jeff Gordon that got the door slammed in his face from every CART team because he didn’t buy his ride. The rear half of the CART field was completely ride buyer, which American racefans unlike European racefans despise with a passion. All of the 1980s and early ’90s racing stars were either retiring or getting old so all the draws that the fans cheered for were on the decline and none of the guys coming in were able to command a fanbase. Expenses were incredibly out of whack but were never addressed, which is why no new American stars came in after a certain point. And it was very well known how Penske and Haas screwed the back half of the grid at will with politics to get rules changes and such that they desired to make them win more often.
So Gordon gets the door slammed at every team in the garage, he goes south to NASCAR, Rick Hendrick, gives him a ride, and he’s the most successful American race star of the 1990s decade. No Indycar/CART/F1 driver can even come close in this country. He also completely changed the sport as people saw the success this young handsome driver had and sponsors jumped on the bandwagon. The rest is history: NASCAR got huge, CART and the IRL once it formed whithered, but if there was no IRL, CART would’ve still gotten destroyed. There’s zero doubt to me that if Gordon had gotten a CART ride he’d've been a big star, he instead became a big star in NASCAR due to CART short-sightedness (and George as well, he should’ve started his own team instead of starting a series). They didn’t have a Jeff Gordon. Who did they have that fans would cheer for and would then be the draw? Juan Montoya? He has far more fans in NASCAR now than he ever did in CART back when CART was still respectable and he’s probably not even top 10 for fans in NASCAR. What else did CART have back then? A bunch of nameless Brazilian ride buyers and F1 rejects that got to where they did not because of merit but because Hollywood Cigarettes wanted to sell cigarettes in Brazil for a race series that was 90% American race dates, so let’s focus everything on people that don’t buy tickets and don’t view on the TVs that the series sponsors actually care about for TV ratings, thereby decreasing sponsorship, and then the drivers didn’t want to get any fans interested in watching the races to increase the fanbase and the sport, they instead took their paycheck, remained aloof, and went home. The IRL then went down the same road CART did.
If anyone ever asks me why CART got destroyed, I point to Jeff Gordon. Gordon in 1993 represented everything right with racing that American racefans wanted to see. CART represented everything wrong. And here we stand 17 years later and we see the results.
The tracks that I’d love to see F1 run on are tracks that would eat the current cars alive – Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta, Road America, Lime Rock, Barber, Sears Point, Eagles Canyon, Leguna Seca, Mid-Ohio. The current crop of F1 makes aren’t designed for fast tracks with big elevation changes, blind drop/climb turns, or turns with serious G force inducing banking. Let alone nose-to-tail, side-by-side racing at anything other than 1st/2nd gear turns.
Uncle Bernie seems to perfer flat tracks with no banking, and unimpressive street courses (if Monaco came to F1 today with the current layout, they’d probably be rejected).
That said, the sooner someone with real business sense can wrest away the right to the “Grand Prix of the U. S.” moniker from Tony G., the better.
Yes, the same Zak Brown owns Just Marketing International (JMI) & is one of the principals behind the United Autosport Audi R8/ LMS team. He drove British F3, Atlantics, & Porsche 911s in the ALMS & Rolex 24 before retiring to focus on JMI.
it’s really very interesting. thx
[...] new discussion series to run between now and the next race.Here’s today’s round-up:LinksTony goes to China (Joe Saward)I missed this article at first, it’s a couple of days old. Hopefully the presence of Tony [...]
I think a Miami street race would work. It’s an international city, easy flight from anywhere on the East Coast, great weather, etc. Forget New York, or an established American road course. That’s just not going to happen for all the reasons stated above.
Joe,
Does the Indianapolis Motor Speedway owner the title of the “US Grand Prix at…” or is it Tony specifically that has the rights?
Leigh,
I believe there are his personally.
Jim Jim Jim when will your hatred and ignorance keep you from rewriting history to fit your position. NASCAR had already became the top auto racing series in American BEFORE there was an IRL. Open Wheel outside of Indy NEVER got the TV ratings that the majority of NASCAR events got. THREES repeat THREES and mostly TWOs that is most open wheel races drew IN THEIR HEYDAY. A poorly watch NASCAR event were beating those numbers after NASCAR went nationwide on TBS, TNN and ESPN. The make believe world that you want to remember NEVER existed.
Let’s see, a couple of years ago I could have sworn Bernie said something along the lines of “hell will freeze over before I talk to Tony”. It’ has been kind of cold around here (Austin, TX).
Tony actually did a reasonable job of getting a good race to the US, and the prices were so reasonable that a couple of Spaniards I talked to in 2006 told me it was cheaper to fly to the US and do the hotel & such and get tickets than it was to get race day tickets in Barcelona.
Street circuit? I did Dallas, I will never go to another street circuit again. Road course like Atlanta or Elkhart Lake? Oh yeah, not that that will ever happen. The only way anybody can make money with Bernie’s prices is to have a monsterous metro area very close at hand AND charge $300+ for tickets. WTF would I do that when I can pay $50 and watch “real racin’” at some 1/2 mile NASCRAP track?
Curt Cavin over at the Indianapolis Star seems to have received more information about this meeting.
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100423/SPORTS01/4230324/1052/SPORTS01/Can-the-right-numbers-be-found-for-F-1-s-return-to-Indy
They are targetting a return in 2012, evidently.
@DC,
Hmmm… Curt’s not often wrong either
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