Ferrari has been fined $100,000 for team orders and the incident in Germany has been referred to the FIA World Council for further discussions. The result of the race still stands. A fine of this magnitude is not really any great punishment for a multi-million dollar organisation but it is a clear shot across the bows of those in Maranello and a message to everyone that such things are NOT going to be tolerated in the future.
The FIA stewards determined that there had been a breach of Article 39.1 of the Formula 1 Sporting Regulations. This states that “team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited”. The team was also ruled to have breached Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, which states that “any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally” can be punished. The fine is the maximum that the stewards are allowed to impose and this is why the matter has been referred to the World Council. This means that there could be further punishment if the World Council thinks that the behaviour was unacceptable.
An Extraordinary Meeting of the World Motor Sport Council will take place on Friday, September 10 in Como, Italy.
Forever!
What ? Details please !
So you can now buy your championship for $100,000 per race?
$100.000? Is this some kind of joke??? Ferrari gets away with it AGAIN!!!
This is a joke, given how much money Santander paid to get Kimi out to go racing on gravel, this is a just a small sum. The only credible punishment is taking away championship points….
Absolutely fantastic! IMO they should also reverse the order to what it would most likely have been without te interference from the team.
But most of all, what this says is that you can’t sit in the stewards’ office and tell bare faced lies and get away with it any more.
Well done FIA stewards (did I ever think I’d write that?) … more than anything else this year, this makes me feel that the poisonous Mosley days may be starting to be left in the past.
BTW, read the papers tomrorow (or GP+today
), and everybody will see that there will be be no doubt that Ferrari brought the sport into disrepute…..
Pathetic decision. If found guilty, then serious sanctions should apply! Otherwise why bother with the rule. One can only hope the World Council sees sense and applies a suitable sanction for the breach.
Good thing that the FIA doesn’t tolerate a such behaviour.
Felipe Massa did not win the race (even if he is the “moral winner”) but at least Ferrari is punished.
And thank you Joe for the news !
Well I don’t understand how the equivalent of a drive through penalty cant have been applied to Alonso, as the person who benefited. If its only going to be a $100,000 dollar fine that’s no real disincentive, and we’re going to see other teams doing the same in future
Any idea when the world council would hear the case?
Hardly a message. Loose change to Ferrari.
Joe, what that means:
“has been referred to the FIA World Council for further discussions”
DQ is possible?
What did you expect from FIA whose current president was the man who issued infamous team order “Rubens, you must pass Michael for the championship” that led to their banning?
Joe, does this mean there may be further reprisals or is it done and dusted?
A reversal of P1 and P2 might be a fair outcome along with the fine?
They should just strip Alonso of the win, move everyone else up a place, and suspend Ferrari from the next race. That would be the only fitting punishment.
What I have issue with is that the stewards only investigated this after the outcry of the media and fans. Why didn’t they see the “crime” before or were they hoping it would just all go away? The whole sport doesn’t come away from this with any credit.
$100,000 ..chump change. How much $ is a race win wortht from Bernie?
Joe, Can the WMC change the race result? Any idea on the date of the hearing?
The WMSC won’t do anything. At best some sort of nonsenical “suspended sentence” which means “at least wait a while before pulling that one again”.
Interesting response from the stewards. A slap on the wrist and a referral upstairs suggests they reckon this needs to be tackled by bigger legal guns.
Given the delay between the deed and the investigation, one wonders if it was the stewards themselves or anyone higher up who instigated proceedings.
fantastic! now with the world motorsport councils track record who knows what will happen… renault get a suspended ban for ordering a driver to crash, mclaren get thrown out of the championship for having information relating to ferrari technical designs… etc etc. this could run for some time yet but glad to see the FIA has grown a backbone and basically said to ferrari quit the lying. (plus wasnt hamilton thrown out of Aus last year for lying?)
Josh H,
I think you should understand that there has been a major change of the way things are done by the FIA World Council since the arrival of Jean Todt.
Wanna really BAN team orders?
Disqualify Alonso from this race (ZERO points) and take away all of Ferrari’s constructor points until now (reset them to ZERO).
Ferrari surely wouldn’t try such team orders again (as any other team).
I don’t understand why wasn’t there this much controversy after the way Ferrari orchestardted the pass involving Felipe and Kimi in Brazil 2007 which give Kimi his world championship?
Why is this any different?
lol.. Joe, Ignore my previous post. I should read your blog more thoroughly!
Must be my anger with the situation.
Ferrari’s actions & comments insult the fans intelligence.
The penalty is light, but as Joe said, the governance has changed, so maybe the FIA WC will take a fair decision over this !
But beyond that, you have to wonder what are worth the drivers in F1 today… Massa almost won the WC for Ferrari in 2008, he’d have won it without the Singapore affair (thanks Fernando) !
And today, one year after he was almost killed in a racing accident, Ferrari killed him by ordering him to move over ! Is this the respect for a driver who gave them all he had, and what could have been his life ?
I’m disgusted ! I hope Ferrari & Alonso won’t win this year and the years after ! It’s a f***ing disgrace !
Let’s pray that the World Council does not let it rest there. Ferrari used to believe they were untouchable, today showed that that sentiment is still rooted in their DNA, but the groundrules have changed and Ferrari have yet to catch up.
Alonso should be disqualified and fined, and the WC should substantially increase the fine imposed by the stewards.
Alonso and Ferrari really are a match made in heaven. They truly deserve each other. All credit to Felipe who handled himself well and salvaged his dignity when every other Ferrari spokesman couldn’t have looked more devious if they had tried.
Hmmm…. Probably the biggest change emanating from this will be a new, more obscure, code-speak used by Ferrari:
“Felipe, the sky is blue! Can you confirm you understood that message?”
or:
“Fernando has eaten more ice cream this weekend. Can you confirm you understood that message?”
or…
Well, you get the idea…
Were it up to me, Alonso would get a 5 second penalty, and Ferrari would get a $15 – $20m fine for bringing the sport in disrepute. Drivers to keep the resulting championship points, but the team to lose all theirs from the race.
That would at least restore the rightful result, and be just about severe enough to make them think twice about repeating the offense.
Of course leaving it until September muddies the water yet further.
After the race Rob Smedley told Sky Sports Germany that Felipe had missed an upshift when Alonso passed him.
Then later he said that he had taken a decision to let Alsonso past.
Which is it Rob? I’d hate to think you were telling porkys.
Or was it…. listen very carefully Felipe…. “ALONSO (LET) IS (HIM) FASTER (PAST).
And if you care, at the 2002 Austrian GP the fine was $1 million
Facts, facts and facts: Of Alonso’s last 3 wins, 2 were built on cheating, hence Alonso is a cheat. I’d love him, Ferrari and Massa being stripped the points. I undertand racing sometimes is a clean bos fight and anothers a chess game, but Alonso and Ferrari went too far, and to worsen it more they had the best cars, they should give those cars to someone with a proper straightness sense.
Ferrari “instructed” Massa to allow Alonso to overtake, of this they have been found guilty.
Massa followed “instructions” which would make him guilty as well, no? Whether he wanted to or not does not matter. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.
Alonso passed Massa, how does this make him guilty though? Was he “instructed” to pass, or does merely being the recipient of team orders make him guilty by association?
Ferrari made a decision they must accept responsibility for, but to what extent do the two drivers need to be held accountable?
Alonso would love to pay these $100,000 out of his own pocket if this would hand him the championship.
I would love to see Formula 1 without Ferrari. In the 30+ years that I have been following F1 there’s no team that has cheated and manipulated so often like Ferrari… yet the sanctions against them are usually a joke, just like this time. They get away with anything while at the same they are always complaining that the slower, smaller teams lower the level of the sport…. Sport? As long as there is Ferrari, there is no sport. Only arrogance.
They did it in Austria, 2002. Then the rules were changed. Now they do it again. In my opinion, it means they should get banned or at least lose the victory. But with ex-Ferrari chief Jean Todt heading the FIA I fear nothing serious will happen.
It’s an utter disgrace.
This really is a turning point for F1 and the Todt presidency, too. If Ferrari are let of the hook unpunished (100.000 are peanuts if FA wins the WDC), the FIA will lose a lot, if not all, credibility they gained after the end of the MM regime.
mmm, what happens with this money, the FIA is shortr a bit of cash is not it?
The fact that Jean Todt is an ex-Ferrari man makes people believe he should be on the side of his former team.
I see things quite differently, it’s obvious that there’s been a takeover of the team made by Italians when the whole foreigner Dream Team left or was forced out: Todt, Brawn, Stepney, Schumacher… The more I look into it the more the whole story of the past few years smell of something just a bit short of a coup which promoted the second-tier managers (Domenicali etc.) to the front.
I am not so sure about the feelings Todt is still harbouring towards Maranello.
Markov,
Couldn’t agree more. Everybody (Joe included) keeps saying that Formula One needs Ferrari… well… no. People in 1951 probably couldn’t imagine top line Grand Prix racing without Alfa Romeo… but it survived. People in 1956 probably couldn’t imagine Formula One without Maserati… but it survived. People in 1979 probably couldn’t imagine it without Lotus and Brabham… but it survived. Lots of teams with superb followings and traditions have gone to the wall in the last 60 years, and others have tumbled to positions of irrelevance for periods, but Formula One has survived. I heartily wish that the powers that be would stop toadying to the Scuderia and grow a pair. For the sake of the sport Ferrari need to stop trying to use their undue influence to corrupt it to their will.
A decision that weak all but endorses Ferrari behavior, unless the FIA do something they may as well throw the rule out the book.
Ferraris behavior this season is really starting to make me question what they bring to the sport; perhaps the time has come for the sport to move on from them. People say Ferrari must be there because they have so much passion for F1, this is clearly not true. They only have passion for Ferrari which is completely different.
All that effort to convince the world they had changed, that they had grown up. That they were no longer willing to sacrifice morality for victory. All of it undone with one decision. Well Done.
Disgrace. Pocket money. And two months hence what will change… If in violation of the rules then it’s a violation of the rules. Farce to let the results stand.
Massa gets his win and his points back.
Alonso gets no points, and gets a 5 places penalty for next race.
Ferrari gets no constructors points for this race and penalty for next race.
Jhon C. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Alonso is by far the stronger driver and he needs the points. Massa should have achieved more earlier in the season.
Massa is out of the championship and Alonso is in contention. Wait until later in the season and you will see team orders in McLaren and Red Bull. No different.
My advise is for everyone to judge everything after Abu Dhabi. Then we will see who used team orders and who did not.
One should not forget that Alonso said on the radio “This is ridiculous” when he had to fight to get past Massa and failed, effectively requesting the team to talk to Massa. The way Massa handled himself after losing the WDC in the last corner, the way he recovered from the terrible injury, the way he handled himself today has been very impressive.
Witnessing today’s race plus the latest two other races, I have watched on TV Alonso talking a lot to the pitwall in no uncertain terms (and remember we only get a small, selected part of it) about the things to do while complaining as well most of the times.
My impression is that he’s really calling the shot regarding the strategy of the race and whatever else happens, because the team heads are so weak and they hired Alonso in a desperate bid to have a real leader. Now Alonso is in charge of the team and gets whatever he wants.
just unfollowed insideferrari on twitter, feel a bit better now
Joe, just to be 100% clear, the WMC meeting on Sept 10th is an “extraordinary” one, but it has been planned since at least last month, according to the minutes of the last one (which I found here: http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=374425&FS=WRC) I wouldn’t want people to think that the meeting has been just organised because of this incident.
Most teams use team orders but only Ferrari could make Rob Smedley do it in a comedy villain voice! All that was missing from his radio message was the “our tune” music that they used to use on BBC Radio 1. Felipe…baby… I have bad news…
2 month is too long a wait, these things should be sorted in a matter of days not even a week.
as for car to pit radio, i appreciate that they were banned a while back… they should be banned and pit boards should only include time info on man in front and man behind… that’s all the driver needs to know…
and if ferrari or anyone else mess up one more time, i call for a complete ban on telemetry as well… they want to know how much fuel they have left, or the oil temp? install a gauge it works on the space shuttle, i’m sure it would work on an f1 car…
The only people who should know that team orders have been given are the team. One can argue about radio “messages” ’til the cows come home but why oh why did Massa let Alonso pass in such an inept way?
These guys are the best in the world it would have been easy to “miss” a braking point or just run wide.
What did Massa think he was going to achieve by advertising the move?
The “no team orders” rule effectively means do it behind closed doors. Massa did himself no favours today.
The incident show how important it is to stop Montezemolo trying to put more Ferraris on the grid, just think how much more Ferrari would manipulate the races with 6 or 8 cars.
I agree Massa behaved well, and I agree this was clumsy and rather ugly behaviour by the team (why on earth, for example, was Smedley asked to relay the message?) However I cannot see Alonso deserves to be punished. At most he should be demoted one place. What was he supposed to do? Slow and let Vettel pass?
We need to remember that the WMSC completely exonerated him of any complicity in Piquetgate.
Having said that, it would be nice if the red team got a grip and we have a clean, easy Ferrari win in Hungary.
Whilst I totally disagree with what is going on, the only reason why Ferrari were brought in front of the FIA was because of the furor that was created after the race, and not during – and that’s the most disgusting thing.
Plus, Cristian Horner has some cheek. When he gives his driver a clear aide for a race, isn’t that changing the outcome of the race as well?????
Massa let Kimi through in 2008 to gift Kimi the championship, no one complained. $100,000 for a championship is an idiotic comment by someone who has only seen the sport twice. Get real, it goes on everywhere, Ferrari were just less clever about it.
I wonder what it’s like to work for an employer, in any field, who orders you to break the rules?
How about not giving them any championship points? That hurts a lot more…
Martin Brundle alluded to Massa’s contract containing a clause that meant that he has to follow team orders. Surely, given the FIA regulations, such a clause would be illegal. Does the FIA Contract Panel still oversee driver contracts? If so, how would such clauses be allowed? Will the FIA World Council be scrutinizing the contracts? They should do, and if illegal clauses exist, they should be rescinded – this would remove the possibility of such disgraceful events as we witnessed today. I used to be an Alonso fan, and warmed to Massa when he displayed such dignity in Brazil 2008, but now they have both lost my respect as sportsmen – as Alonso said “it has long ceased to be a sport” – but when he said that, many took it that he was complaining, but it would appear he condones the death of sportsmanship. A sad day, indeed.
Watched Horner on BBC he was gutted, must be because if he had allowed himself to be as explicit as Rob Smedly in Turkey he would have had a 1 2 finish. I bet he would consider £100,000 fine a bargain, bet he is chewing the carpet in the Red Bull energy station tonight.
Has anyone considered that Mr Toad is in a very difficult position if the World Council take no action in this case given his former job.
FIA more like…Ferrari Instructions Agreer
At $100,000 per win, even HRT can afford it!
@Bec, forget about manipulating races in that instance… think of manipulating the championship…
That’ll be an extraordinary meeting all right. In Italy, on the Friday before the Monza Grand Prix. What exactly will the WMSC dare to do to Ferrari at that point?
Hmmm JP, you might be in the minority on this one. Are you suggesting that Felipe has done something wrong by not “covering up” the fact that he was pulling over for his teammate?
Team orders is an admittedly complex topic. When we saw Massa and Raikonnen switched around near the close of the Brazilian Grand Prix back in 2008, it was obviously orchestrated. With the championship on the line, I think most observers figured it was “OK”.
So what makes this (or Austria 2002) so different? Maybe it is not really different and it is possible that Alonso might ultimately win the world championship by less than five points, which would make today’s points haul crucial in retrospect.
But, on the flipside: This is NOT the end of the season and if we start manipulating things in anticipation of what MIGHT happen months later, where do we stop? Should drivers pull over at the second race? The Third?
But what really rankles on this occaision are:
1) Alonso’s complaints that he could not get by earlier in the race. It smacks of entitlement.
2) The fact that Massa today was marking one year since he almost died and it seems rather poor form to deny him his rightful accomplishment. He has been very loyal to the team.
3) Formula One in general is doing a decent job of getting around this sort of favoritism. Even the Red Bull fiascos look very marginal compared to this.
“Fernando has eaten more ice cream this weekend. Can you confirm you understood that message?”
Allan: YOU WIN.
Joe:
Could you post what you know about Smedley.
I found him very interesting today. I find he and jock Clear provide the most straightforward advice to their drivers, of course I don’t hear from all of them.
It appears that he is a forthright person but, his future will be under attack as the red team prepares for the World Council.
Anyone else think there was something even more than a little bit fishy about the ACTUAL phrase used by Rob Smedley to Massa which if you listen carefully was:
Fernando Is Faster Than You (check out the initial letters of each word for a none too carefully hidden message then check on which lap Alonso actually went over the start finish line in first place).
Still think there is no case to answer on team orders Ferrari and Ferrari fans?
I think a lot of negative attention is being unjustly directed towards Alonso in this affair. I openly admit to not being a fan of Alonso, and this further displays him in an antagonistic light, but surely any driver would want to reap the benefits of being the number one in their team. He should not be lynched for happening to take advantage of an opportunity to boost his championship bid. This was an order made by the team, and the team alone. Alonso wasn’t the man sat on the pit wall telling Rob Smeadley to send the instruction to Massa. It would be unfair to punish him as a demonstration of the rules about Team Orders.
The team, however, should not get away lightly and $100,000 is not enough. Alonso should receive a 5 second penalty in order to revert the race order to it’s rightful place, and no more. The team as a constructor should be disqualified from the race.
I also believe Massa should receive a reprimand for his compliance in an unlawful act. He deserves the win but he still acted against the spirit of the rules today.
For sure this is a shame. However Ferrari won the race (un)fair and square.
McLaren was far far away, RBR not in very good shape either… Ferrari cheated on themselves not on the other teams… so why the other teams should get any point (taken from Ferrari’s)?
Let’s win races on the track… and punish teams according to the damage done. The only guy that should be seriously complaining is… Felipe Massa.
But I can see how some of you wouldn’t mind the Ferrari drivers being disqualified, adding to Massa’s punishment and to Lewis & Jenson’s scores…
Jean Todt will now show if he is he right man for the job. This is a violation of the rules and the post race commentary from Stephano Domenicali are also damning. McLaren was fined hugely for lying about the information from Ferrari and stripped of competing in the constructors championship in 2007. The WMC must strip Ferrari of its points and should decide to put it on notice for the rest of the season that they will be booted out of the championship for any other team orders.
Ferrari has decided not to appeal the steward’s decision, is that an admission of guilt and the WSMC will just decide on further action or will the WMSC start from scratch and maybe decide the fine was disproportionate or totally unjustified given the evidence, which is rather obvious but might not be legally waterproof?
If this is the standard for a breach of the regulations from now on, then I understand that.
But I would like to remind everyone that two years ago at this same circuit, Ron Dennis told Kovalainen basically the same thing on the McLaren radio that Rob Smedley told Massa today: your teammate behind you is quicker than you. (i.e. Let your teammate through.) Hamilton went on to win the race, and McLaren got no penalty.
I’m not a Ferrari fan at all; in fact, I’m a McLaren fan. But the FIA needs to be consistent in how they enforce sporting regulations, which they certainly haven’t a record of doing. This yet another example of the FIA being inconsistent. I have a feeling this penalty has more to do with F1 politics (i.e. Ferrari running their mouths too much for the FIA’s liking both this year and last) than it does with enforcing the letter of the law.
Joe,
We have seen the Todt FIA distance itself from Mosley, can he now show independence from Ferrari, this is the true test of the man, can he do his new job or will he want to do his old job at Ferrari? IE will he want to restore team orders (like he would have liked when he was at Ferrari) and chuck out the old rule as unworkable or some other excuse OR will he do the independent good regulator job and fine the fool out of Ferrari and make everyone think twice about doing it again.
$20m for the team and both drivers and team lose the German GP points seems about right to make the point!
Something tells me Alonso is going to step on some more landmines before his retirement. He has a really bad attitude now that he should be given race positions and not earn them. IE the crying that Hamilton’s punishment for passing the safety car was not enough was one example, second not letting Kubica back past and this is the third (of many yet to come?)!
I hope that Ferrari have to get the cheque book out again and write a bunch of zeros after the first number. I don’t think Todt, today, can stand letting Ferrari off the hook easily. Ferrari bought it all on themselves, AGAIN!
The only thing Ferrari are guilty of is not having come up with a better disguise for their tactics. If you think for one minute that McLaren and company don’t do the same thing you are only kidding yourselves.
What hypocrisy. The British press and us fans crying about someone in F1 bending the rules??? How quickly we forget about McLaren stealing Ferrari’s intellectual property, Lewis lying to the Stewards and the dangerous moves in the Pit lane, his pass on the safety car, his slow in-lap in Canada, etc, etc. All these events that in many cases contradict written and non-written codes of conduct have not been dealt with adequate punishment. But that is all fine as long as there is a British team involved.
Next time, Ferrari should just tell Massa “Felipe, go to fuel saving mode please”…
Hypocrites.
Once again the “sport” has been degraded by manipulation. What is worse Alonso thinks all is OK DEFINITELY shades of Shuie and Barrichello years ago What is it with Ferrari. Finally I am not happy with the inconsistant FIA decision, and as commented earlier McLaren have skirted on the edge of legality and sportsmanship for years and manage to get either the benefit of the doubt or somewhat light penalites when caught. The governing body is not concerned with right and wrong and fairness and justice but “Audience” viewing numbers and MONEY
Here in the states NASCAR told their drivers to “have at it” earlier this year regarding on rough driving, payback over track disputes and (I imagine lots of fans hoped) maybe even fisticuffs after the races.
A fine of $100K in F1 would seem to be the equivalent.
Good on Massa in making the swap as blatant as possible.
I wish Ferrari would let Massa race… He has been a faithful #2 for so long!
WMSC will finally decide whether or not F1 still being sport! I almost can’t wait the extraordinary meeting…
It would have been great for Felipe. Extra special because of his recovery from his nasty injury last year. I’ve never liked Alonso as he seems to always be complaining and whinging. I so much want to support Ferrari but with what they did for Schumacher + now this, I really just think it’s very sad.
But yeah $100k isn’t much is it (especially for someone like Ferrari).
I wonder what toad of toad hall will do on September 10th? Considering he was the godfather of team orders when at Ferrari (and before) and now is the godfather of the FIA. Also if it is harsh and contains even more penalties I wonder who will get out of Italy alive?
If Alosno (or El contradicto as he is also known) ends up winning the championship this will sour it just like some of Michael’s and one of Mika’s was.
A shame that Felipe, if further penalites arise will get a punishment and Alonso (yet again) won’t because when you look at it clearly, Alonso didn’t do anything as it was Ferrari and Felipe who caused the change of events.
How does he do it!? Every single time he is involved in controversy he is always in a position where nothing can be directly pinned on him.
Hey, they don’t call him Teflonso for nothing!
Stephen
masrtin said “he didn’t know what was in Massa’s contract”. All drivers will have a clause saying they must obey team instructions – just like I’m sure most people have with an employment contracts.
I don’t belive for a second that no other team has ussed team orderd since 2002.
Ferrari (especially Smedley and Massa) were just stupid in the way they implemented it.l
I personally think the team order rule is stupid.
As it is against the rules, they should be DQ’d (both drivers) and the team should loose their points
[...] Ferrari guilty! Ferrari has been fined $100,000 for team orders and the incident in Germany has been referred to the FIA World Council [...] [...]
$100k huh? so what, half of their expenditure for this weekend? The FIA-rrari World council won’t do a thing, nothing has changed (yet) !
Daniel Tyler
The Stewards are not entitled to fine more than that. Hence the referral to the World Council. It is not over yet.
As the rule is written allows interpretation as to what may be considered an ‘order which interferes with a result’ Was there an actual order – or was there only a transfer – a very clear transfer – of executive information upon which the targetted driver acted..
My overwhelming view is this however – and I am old enough to remember seeing Moss, Fangio etc actually on the track. – Grand Prix racing IS a Team Sport. It always has been. It always will be. It is impossible to run a championship, motor sport operation in any other way.
How you run two drivers against each other in the team pursuit of one championship is a concept utterly beyond me!
The only possible way to do it – would be to run two drivers in one car… and run the car to the championship.
Watch more than two Grand Prixs and anyone will get the team idea immediately – same as watching the team game of Football for the first time.
This cranky bend in the road has always been the fact that that the GP series does play Team games – the general the Press promote and venerate the Drivers – and Driver Championships. So we always end up with this silliness whilst making liars, fools and vilains out of all the participants.
Stop all this. Openly declare F1 a Team game again and ditch this crazy, ludicrous, stupid rule – which has absolutely no basis within the historical roots of GP racing.
All the followers of, the fans of the sport actually want at the end of the day is honesty and clarity of purpose. Grand Prix Racing IS a Team Sport – betting people please note. There is nothing wrong with that – so say so!
I miss the plucky Alonso from the old days, duelling with Schuey at Imola and not blinking, smiling all the time. Now, I am going to start referring to Fernando as the F1 Lebron James, putting personal success above all things, including sportsmanship, teamwork, dignity, honor, etc. As he is already a well-deserved two time champion, is his third that important that he is willing to sell his soul? Sadly, I think Singapore was just a harbinger of the future. Win, no matter what. I feel gutted for Felipe, having had to recover from a serious head injury myself. He showed mountains of courage just to drive again, much less race. This was his win and Alonso’s greed and boorishness ruined it. What a sham(e).
Total disgrace.
Ferrari considers itself above the law. They’re arrogant in the extreme.
Look at their overalls. Cigarette advertising is banned, but there it is – a pretty recognisable symbol for a deadly tobacco product plastered across the drivers’ shoulderblades.
FIA: Ferrari International Assistance.
Why the outcry here?! This is nothing new. If this was the last race in the Championship and Massa moved over for Alonso to win, nothing more would be said about it. Remember Brazil 2008…
Nick
It is all in the timing
Did Ferrari officially made Alonso number one driver?
And another thing,wasn’t Ferrari’s traditional policy for the final stages of a GP that the drivers were to effectively hold station and why not in this case? They were going to get maximum points; who cares who comes first? who cares indeed when the title sponsor of your team is the major sponsor of the race and comes from the same country as one of your drivers.
All they needed to do was indulge in a bit of play acting for a couple of laps (Dijon 79 style) Alonso would eventually come out in the lead, Massa could have mollified with the excuse keeping sponsors pouring money into the team and everybody including the brass at Santander, would have gone home happy.
If they had done it right instead of just done they would be smelling of roses instead of stinking up the place.
I am not sure Jean Todt has any credibility if he’s going to argue against team orders. He is Mr. Team Order.
I think the rule as it stands is silly. It needs to be rewritten as to prevent situations like the one in 2002, where the driver who gets switched in front doesn’t need the points. Alonso needed to win this race, Schumacher didn’t need to win the race in Austria.
As a caveat I didn’t see the race (first time this year), hence didn’t feel like I wasted my time watching it. And if Felippe was my man, I’d be very upset – I was pretty peeved after Turkey.
However, it’s a team sport so the team should decide how it wants to run it’s business. I know it’s breaching the regulations, but as alluded to earlier, then so was Brazil 2007. Robert Kubica got his win when Nick Heidfeld let him through. What about one driver backing up the pack behind him so that the front-running driver can build a gap and pit in safety? Think of other team sports – does the person fouled always take the free kick? Or penalty?
I never thought I’d say it but I agree with Schumacher – it should be done nicely/unobviously, but it should be legal. In fact it should be similar to how Clinton described abortion should be (safe, legal and rare). If anything, the punishment should be against the clumsiness of the execution rather than the actual act. I know we don’t want a Schumacher/Barrichello thing again, but you either create 1-car teams or accept that teams are bigger than the 2 drivers in the cars.
So I think team orders in Formula 1 should be subtle, legal and rare.
Whilst I appreciate the need for transparency in order to have fair play, its largely irrelevant under the current structure isn’t it? If you have two drivers in one team then you will always have a number 1 and a number 2 driver – if not at the start of the championship then in its closing stages. Team orders will exist while you have drivers in teams – its unavoidable…
And then there’s the drivers’ personalities themselves. Compare Massa, Webber & Barra (“Nice guys finish last”) with drivers like Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton & Schuey (“Its only cheating if you get caught”). Well, it is a competition after all…
I think the expectation that there is fair play in a sport that draws some of the most competitive people in the world and involves huge sums of money is possibly a bit naive. If the teams were to publish who their number 1 and number 2 drivers are at the start of the season the we’d see an end to all this negative press and get on with the business of racing. Now that’s what I call transparency…
As an aside, I think the real winner here is Christian Horner – for once no one is talking about Red Bull for the wrong reasons. Not to worry, he’ll get another opportunity next weekend…
Why is there such a fuss over this? Is speaking factually to a driver and letting him make the decision (under pressure but such is life when you earn the bucks that these guys do) any more unfair than having him pit only to be delayed or dropped back into traffic? I think not. This was honest. Yet the other happens very often and no one says boo. What a bunch of bunk.
David B,
Different people have different understanding about what constitutes a sport. If you think that it is better for the team to dictate the winner then you have a right to do that. If you happen to believe that racing is about one man against another, then you might appreciate it more. But maybe not… The thing that matters is what the FIA thinks. They make the rules.
I wish I was in a position to be fined $100,000 and take it as a warning.
Is F1 a team sport?
In the sense that you need a team of people to put a car on the track IT IS.
In the sense that the most valued prize is the Drivers World Championship IT IS NOT!
If F1 is a team sport you might as well call boxing, and probably every other sport, a team sport.
I’m glad you make that point about the stewards maximum penalty.
I way I see it , it was determined that what Ferrari have done is only 1/100th of what Mclaren were found guilty of in 2007 in terms of severity. If the World Council leave the penalty as it is, that says to me that what Mclaren did was 100 times worse. Am I right?
Adam,
It all depends on how one views the McLaren business in 2007.
I’m interested to know what Ferrari said to the stewards? Did they continue to insist that there weren’t any team orders given? If that is the case, then in light of the guilty decision weren’t they therefore lying to the stewards? Shouldn’t they then have their points deducted from this race?
There are 2 issues here ~ Ferrari used team orders in a blatant way, and they are lying about doing so in a way that insults our intelligence! We know what happened to Lewis and McLaren at “Liegate”. There really should have been a time penalty for Alonso, the only thing that would clearly have punished Ferrari, this fine is peanuts!
Martin,
I am not sure you do know what happened with McLaren in Liegate.
Ago, why not give Ferrari bigger engines and stick a bag of cement in all the other cars. Wake up!!
They should take all earned constructors points away from Ferrari. That would hurt enough.
And reverse the driver points.
I think Ferrari need to worry about the charge of bringing the sport into disrepute more than the charge of breaching the sporting regulations.
Lets analyze this scenario:
Massa & Alonso got a flying start, Massa 1 and Alonso 2nd. Massa was faster among them and he produced continous fastest laps. Alonso pitted first, that time Massa was the fastest man on track. Then Massa pitted and came out. But he was struggling on his hard tires. Alonso was attacking him. They raced wheel to wheel on couple of occasion, but Massa held his position. after some time Alonso backed out and gap became 3 sec. During that time Vettel was gaining speed and all set to attack Alonso. He was closing in Fernando with a good pace setting some fastest laps. Alonso replied strongly and started closing the gap with Massa. Then it became 0.8 sec gap between Alonso & Massa. That time Smedley made the comment Alonso is Faster than you. in last 3 laps, Alonso has sent 3 concecutive fastest laps and of cousre he was faster than Massa. When they reached the hair-pin, the gap was 0.4sec and Alonso has over taken him. Rest is what we have seen….
So according to official statements by Ferrari, they have just informed the driver that other driver is faster than him. And they don’t want to repeat the same thing which happened with Rebulls in Turkey a few weeks back. Smedley gave the information to Felipe and he saw what happened and he was not happy about the situation of the car was slower than the other one. Thats why he apologized to Massa. I think, this is the same thing they are going to present before World Motor Sport Council as well.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Where was the outrage when Mclaren issued their “Fuel is critical!” team order?
Or when Red Bull ordered to “turn down revs”?
Nobody cared, everybody joked about it.
But when Ferrari is involved, mass outrage ensues!
That’s why the fans should never dictate the rules, and that’s why this anti-team orders rule should never have been implemented in the first place.
Trixx,
Read all the intelligent comment around your’s and have a think about your’s. There is no anti-Ferrari conspiracy. There is just a difference in philosophies. One cannot compare this with the Hamilton-Kovalainen thing. It is just not the same thing at all.
It amuses me when I read comments about ‘loose change’ with regard to $100,000. It doesn’t matter whether you are Ferrari or HRT, it’s a bloody great wodge of money that won’t go down well with the company accountants. I’m of the opinion this punishment doesn’t fit the crime – it’s too much. They could have given him the message in coded fashion and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. Scrap the no team orders rule.
All the anti-Alonso comments are simply mindboggling.I suppose Ferrari should have allowed the drivers to race fairly and end up with Redbull in their faces. As for the many transgressions of Alonso, i cannot remember him overtaking a pace car nor speeding behind it to gain an unfair advantage.He was deprived of championship points at silverstone by vindictive English mashalls for events beyond his control(the overtake using the chicane and Kubicsa’s retirement).When are people ever going to realise that he is far and away the most complete driver in F1, and accord him a modicum of respect.
Only one person mentioned Turkey, where a faster teammate in second had a rough time making the pass, and the team was hurt. Ferrari did the only sensible thing, otherwise Fernando would have put a wheel alongside Massa and who knows what might happen!
I have not read the rule book. Does it actually say “constructors may not give team orders, but when they must, their choreography must be convincing enough that spectators can believe the deception”.
Can someone explain to me why the child alonso who throws his toys out of the pram at any occassion can get away with this shouting that Massa was to slow, they were racing for position, maybe I’m stupid, thought that what racing was about, silly me. How can he spout the rules, as he was on his team radio shouting the odds that Hamilton had passed the safety car, also Schumacher who overtook on the final lap after the safety car had gone into pit lane, again he was shouting the rules and demanding that they both be penalised, they were. WHY is he so important that although he shouts the rules and demands that they be implemented, him and his team can flout the rules at any time and are immune. He is a spoilt brat and should be brought to order? He is not respected or liked by over 90% of the drivers, it will soon happen to Ferrari if they don’t get rid of the petulant child.
Anybody agree????
I’m not comparing it to the Hamilton-Kovalainen thing either.
I am mainly referring to the Turkey incident between Hamilton and Button where both drivers were ordered to hold station with that “Fuel is critical” radio message.
How anyone can not call that team orders and manipulating the race result is beyond me.
Sure, on face value, they might seem a bit different, but in essence, that incident and the current one are the very same.
Yet, only one of these incidents is the cause of massive outrage.
I can only call that hypocrisy of the highest degree.
I prefer team orders to be done openly, rather than having them thinly disguised as “Fuel is critical” and the lovely “Turn down revs” type of communications.
Never ceases to amaze me how many people are falling for that claptrap.
“One cannot compare this with the Hamilton-Kovalainen thing. It is just not the same thing at all.”
why what is the difference ?
During the 2008 season mclaren favoured hamilton over kovalainen from day one, and this is the name of the game in F1 and they did the right thing, at the end hamilton won the title with just 1 point difference.
when kimi and massa were driving for Ferrari team they never favoured one of them over the other (until the last races) becase their performances were very close each other. this year it is a different story, somehow massa can not match the performance of alonso, so team made a choice.
Dominant drivers, in any f1 team gets special treatment this is the truth of F1, if only there are two close drivers than teams wait until the end of season to decide, same for every team.
Trixx
I do get your point and I personally think the rule is ridiculous as now all radio transmission needs careful investigation for any subtle team orders
I think though the difference in this is we know if affecteds the outcome – in the “hold station” we don’t know if it did or didn’t
Some good articles from James Allen and Martin Brundle on this and I liked DC’s quote “all teams do it and if they say they don’t they are lying”
The rule is ridiculous. Ferrari, IMO should be further punished, although TECHNICALLY they can argue there was no order – we all know what they wanted to happen, but they actually didn’t order it
Let them lose their Constructor points, and then get rid of the ridiculous rule
@Trixx
I agree to your point. It happens only when Ferrari is involved!!! Some people like Christian Honer are telling Ferrari’s are cheats. Because of that Move did Redbull lose anything? Nothing.. Then what abt the European Grand Prix, where struggling Webber has simply hit behind Kovalainen and Safety car came & Vettel won the race..? No one is saying the are cheats? I don’t think, Honer has the right to criticize Ferrari’s move. they only made the “turn down revs” comment, which was a clear team order. The fact is Ferrari have always had team orders and a number 1 driver. Massa helped kimi in 2007, kimi helped massa in 2008.
Any idea when the world council would hear the case?
Mora,
September. It is mentioned in one of the stories.
Don’t let the facts get in the way of your beliefs but yes Red Bull did lose something. The lead their driver has in the championship over Alonso has been decreased as a result. That is why Ferrari issued the team orders to achieve exactly that.