The ever-increasing costs of tickets to Formula 1 races are having an effect on the number of people in the grandstands – whether those involved wish to admit it or not. Race promoters do their best to draw in crowds, but the prices they are forced to ask – and the services that they can afford to offer – make it a difficult sell Formula 1 to the public, particularly in places where there is no obvious reason for a Grand Prix to be held. In such situations the local governments have tended to step in to pay the bills. They want the TV viewing world to imagine that they are glamorous locations and they imagine that “eyeballs” on TV will translate into tourism revenues. It works in some places, but not in all…
At the same time TV stations can justify large rights payments for sports property, as these enable them to pull in advertising dollars, but they do not want to broadcast matches which have empty grandstands, which have little atmosphere.
Down in Australia, they think they have an answer. Channel Nine recently revealed that it is considering a plan to repackage its Monday night AFL matches, so that the grandstands are filled with virtual spectators. They argue that using conjuring tricks to fill the empty seats with cheering fans is entirely acceptable as people do not go out on Monday nights.
The big question is whether or not sports fans want to be “conned” into thinking that the grandstands at sporting events are really full of cheering fans, or whether they do not care and are happy to sink into their couches and imagine an atmosphere that no longer exists…
Well , same happen in US. This year tickets for Indy 500 was distribute in schools, because ABC requires filled the stands at least in 80%. TV ratio drop down and only hope($$$) for young US drivers is bullshit NASCAR. But F1 has much better drivers, talented young drivers. Unfortunately, Bernie is looking for circuit rent, no fans or TV money and fight.
You write post about more street circuit in F1 calendar, …close to clients, us, and he (Bernie) don’t care what we see, racing or procession. Singapore at Night from Tlike blehh… wrong !!!
Right http://ow.ly/2uN8d and Internet
(sorry for poor English, try my best )
What a bizarre idea
This sounds horrific. Fake spectators!!! That is oh so wrong. Why not just block all the grandstands out and have ‘fans’ right on the edge of the track/pitch.
I would far rather see empty grandstands than fake full stands. TV companies need to understand the difference between covering sports and producing soap operas. TV sports coverage is supposed to show what real happened not the chocolate box idealised version of what they would have liked to have happened.
I think they would have trouble doing this in reality any way. You only have to watch the NFL to see that on some shots the line they draw in that the attacking team has to reach is there and on other cameras and on replays often it is not. If they can’t consistently show a drawn line on a pitch how are they going to draw spectators in a grandstand so that they look right for example from and onboard camera on a spinning car.
“Bernie? Is Fernando. How are you? And your wallet?…uh huh..that’s nice. I guess you get good price for unwanted GP winner’s medals huh? Good. Were they pure gold?….uh huh…yeah but under foil was best Belgian chocolate huh?
Listen Bernie, these virtual spectators. They have t-shirts, caps, and lil posters they make at home outa Mama’s bedsheets yeah?
Listen Bernie…they gota say ‘Alonso’. Not ‘Massa’. OK?
…
Wadya mean that’s up to TV?! No way that’s not fair. What can I say to persuade you?
Say Bernie, I ever tell you about the time Ron and Flavio drew a cartoon of you on Paddock Club toilet wall…?”
Sounds like the ideal audience for a Ferrari 1-2.
Oh, my dear Lord. What is the world coming to? Here’s an idea: play the footy on Saturday afternoon’s, kicking off about 2.20. That way the fact that most people aren’t at work will mean that they free to go to a game and support their team. Possibly, this will have a carry on effect of attracting sponsors and revenues for the stadiums, broadcasters and the teams, in addition to the blatantly obvious benefit of making available for everybody at home a spectacle that has life. Sorry, is that wrong?
They seem to like that sort of thing. I remember when they started putting virtual advertising bill boards in the crowd. Not sure if they still do it.
Personally I hate CGI, and adding crowds to sporting events to create atmosphere is just one step away from saying people aren’t interested in a boring game, so let’s just create a virtually exciting one for them. Running man here we come….
Maybe AFL players aren’t at their best on Monday nights either… so to ensure the best televisual experience, perhaps on-pitch CGI would best complement the CGI audience…
It would be just like movie making, where stunts and models are replaced in favor of computer graphics, people pay to see that and they don’t complain that it is not ‘real’ right? To take it a step further, instead of actual races they can just hold virtual races from the simulators and do away with the costs of moving the equipment around and going to the circuits at all ! Think of the logistics savings and not actually having to make the car, having a team of mechanics, putting up motorhomes, etc etc. Heck they can probably just grab some kid who might be pretty handy with the virtual racing so they don’t even need to pay the salaries for the Alonso’s and the likes, and they can hold more races than Nascar! More $$ in less $$ out, Bernie could not be more pleased I’m sure.
Hmmmm Bernie will spend hours trying to think how to charge fees to the virtual crowd…….
One day the F1 continuing expansion bubble will burst and they will return to the traditional venues with strong support…
Montreal in June is worth the price of admission.
Na$car is doing somewhat similar here. They have painted the seats in an irregular and camo pattern (think desert storm digitized uniforms) that make it very hard to tell what’s open or full.
Whilst virtual fans might be able fool the viewers on TV, it isn’t going to fool the competitors. I image with a footy game, if the stands are packed with cheering spectators it has a positive effect on the players, and subconsiously they try harder. Imagine the same goes with drivers and Formula 1. If you’re racing around a circuit with empty grandstands, it would feel like a test season. If the place was packed you’d be pumped to drive as hard as you could.
I think at GP’s where ticket sales are slow and where the country doesn’t have a strong motorsport following, the FOM should encourage the promoter to give away tickets if needed to get the stands full. The FOM needs to think long term. The first year you might have to give away 90% of the tickets, the next year 60%, the next year 30%, but as the spectators having seen the sport in the flesh get hooked, they start following F1s, watching it on TV, buying the magazines, reading the blog, spruiking it to friends, and before you know you have countries where people interested in motorsport is growing exponentially, meaning more money in and around motorsport, which means more motorsport, which means more fans.
Pumping up attendance virtually smacks of pumping up athletic performance with steroids or oxigenated blood transfusions. It should not be allowed.
I live in Australia and haven’t heard this. At this stage only Channel 10 & 7 share the rights to show AFL games. The on sell the right to cable provider Foxtel
In australia games are not shown live in the state that they are played to encourage people to attend the games. This does annoy me somewhat. So if virtual crowd allow games to be played live. So be it
I guess the TV Station would have to pay the teams and stadium for each seat they fill? ;o)
Hi Joe, welcome back. F1 has to tread very lightly here. Already, many of their venues come across as sterile, and not very fan friendly. In my opinion, I don’t think they are going to be able command large fees for television much longer until Bernie realizes the time to make “extra” money by broadcasting in HD has come and gone. I have actually switched away from some F1 races to watch NASCAR. The contrast between the two make F1 telecasts look as dated as footage from races in the seventies and eighties. F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsports, but even the “Furniture World” commercials I loathe have better production values than an F1 telecast. Now don’t say it has anything to do with the speed of the cars, because the Indycar Series is broadcast in HD, and I believe they actually move faster than the Formula One cars. They look great in HD, even if the series comes across as a joke.
Virtual fans happened a few years ago for the Bathurst 1000 when the V8s thought they were bigger than the mountain and forgot that Channel 7 was a part owner of the race.
Channel 10 was awarded the rights for the series but this didn’t include Bathurst.
Channel 7 then got the Battery Chargers (Super Touring) to fill the void, but nobody turned up to watch.
Answer… big sponsor boards digitally placed on the track to cover up the empty grandstands. I actually watched the ads more than the race.
If the fan reaction to team orders conning them with regard to the outcome of the races, I can’t see them wanting or putting up with being conned over another part of the deal. Perhaps in Aussie Rules football they’ll put up with it, or not care, but I would be surprised if they do.
We have had results manufactured with team orders that have even extended to a driver crashing on instruction. We can now expect “cheering fans” to be manufactured through a digital process. Next companies/teams will pay for having fans supporting their teams. If this happens in F1 its headquarters should re-locate to Hollywood.
I don’t have much respect for Channel 9 in general…but I’m forced to watch it once a wk as Top Gear UK is now on Channel 9…
I did feel a little sad at the sight of some of the empty seats during the Germany race but I don’t think I want any virtual spectators as that would actually be kind of creepy.
Genuine F1 fans will be aware what is “real” on TV and what is not. Autotuned amateur singing, dubbed studio laughter, hand-waving Weather presenters pointing at the wrong part of weather maps, “live” shows, etc. are the staple output of Planet TV’s “reality”. I like to think only the admass, who watch F1 primarily to see crashes, believe what they see on their Plasma Picture in the lounge is reality.
What about doing VR the other way round and have the drivers sitting in their simulators and link them all up onto the same circuit.
Same format, practice sessions – quali and then the race.
Then a virtual podium followed by a virtual drivers briefing. We could even have a virtual Eddie Jordan.
Virtual spectators, just what’s needed for the next Tilke-drome… Why not just connect up all the simulators and have a virtual dull GP championship and let the rest of us get back to watching proper racing on decent circuits – the ones where spectators go because the racing is good and it’s relatively easy to get to!
Meanwhile, back in the real world, I suspect there’ll be huge crowds sliding around the mud of Spa, struggling to stay seated on the grass banks and having a great time watching the F1 cars on a circuit that challenges the driver and allows the cars to truly show what they can do. If only the money that’s wasted building these circuits that no one wants to go to could be spent on proper circuits – the Belgian GP sponsored by Korea anyone? The only thing that needs improving at Spa is the spectator facilities, a few quid spent on terracing the steep bankings would be great, more people could safely get in and watch the racing…
I take it this a late posting of an April Fool joke, Joe ?
This entry doesn’t make a lot of sense Joe – your English is poor in this one.
Are you trying to tell us that Channel Nine are creating CGI fans?
I don’t get it.
Cool!
F1 costsaving: Have one big asphalt place, make a projection of different circuits, put in the spectators and ready!
Pros:
No armco’s (only virtual ones)
No travelling for the F1 guys: even better hospitality.
etc.
Cons:
Probably no real spectators… but where are they now?
I hope they don’t resort to such trickery, I would have thought the sight of empty grand stands would have eventually prompted someone to look again at the price of tickets. I have heard people say that the cost of an F1 ticket compares well with attending pop concerts and such but for me that just means music fans get ripped off as well.
If tv companies gloss over the problem then the motivation for those involved to reduce prices to an acceptable level diminishes, what next? Cardboard cutouts? Shop window mannequins in Ferrari t shirts?
Changing the subject Joe I saw that Herr Mosley gave an interview claiming that the dreaded Briatore was on the verge of making a comeback, have you heard anything? Probably just Max getting a few headlines for himself.
It’s a double edged sword, because some people will be happy to see ‘virtual’ spectators, while others will jump on it, claiming it’s proof of a sports decline in popularity.
When you see football game highlights on the news, some of the grounds are half empty and you wonder where all the cheering is coming from, well a Central news broadcaster admitted they add crowd noise to create atmosphere for the TV audience, so that is just a small step away from adding a crowd.
In F1, I’d prefer cheaper tickets.
But that would require cheaper sanctioning fees.
But that would require the teams needing less more to race, and CVC less debt to service.
And that, in part would require a Cost Cap.
And FOTA rejected that.
Joe, how long will it take for people to realize that the high fees charged by B.Ecclestone is unsustainable?
It makes no sense to me for him to charge a fee with 10% increases every year + take the signage and tv rights as well.
The weekends I watch the races on SpeedTV I see the grandstands more and more empty. Ok, race day it is more filled and races like Monaco and Spa will probably be ok.
The way I see it is that the countries that support their races will realize that this is not a good investment or the returns are quite fair and move on.
What does that mean for F1. Probably, a deflationary period where costs will need to be driven down further.
That would probably mean – cars might have to last for 2 years or more?
Sounds like yet another F1 fraud to me.
Wonder if you have heard anything on this new wing/floor story that has hit Autosport today (26th). Any inside info?
I think you guys in the media have missed the boat on this one. I was made aware of the flexing on the Bulls front endplates as far back as China. I think this is the story that will mark both the outcome of this years championship and maybe how this year is remembered… in my humble opinion.
More good news that can be laid at the feet of CVC…
It’s time to take back the sport. I propose a winner-takes-all home-and-home two-round contest between the sport and CVC, with results aggregated and the winner being awarded control of the sport.
First the business event — the best four financial minds CVC has against, say, Frank Williams, Tony Fernandes, Vijay Mallya and Martin Whitmarsh. I don’t think our boys would show too badly — and the combination of entrepreneurial elan and gimlet-eyed control of the fundamentals from FW would probably put them ahead of a bunch of bright City sparks anyway…
And then the racing event — pick any four teams you like, and then let’s put that famous CVC motor-racing nous to the test.
Risible, of course, but a fellow can dream, can’t he?
Well there definitely wasn’t a problem for this years British Grand Prix, despite the average price of £299 a ticket it was rammed all three days! That is a good thing of course for the Brit GP and Silverstone but the other GP’s that fail to attract a decent sized crowd for race day alone can’t be a good advertisement for F1 in the long haul. What could be an idea is if circuits could introduce a payment scheme for tickets. I.E you can make a deposit on the ticket and then over the coming months and weeks make payments as an when you can to pay off your bill. I know that I would love to go again next year the Brit GP but I never have the £600 for me and my wife to go at one time so maybe it would help sales if you could spread out the payments.
The world is not only stranger than I thought, but stranger than I could have thought. Virtual spectators? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to let people in for free and save the need for all that fancy technology to hide the fact that no one’s watching?
What I don’t understand is why, if the silly prices being asked are resulting in empty grandstands, they don’t simply drop the price. Better surely to have 100,000 people paying £30 each than 10,000 paying £100 each. If there were even that many people at, say Istanbul.
That said, my weekend ticket to Spa (albeit a general admission ticket not a grandstand one) a couple of years back cost me considerably less than my 2 day ticket for a music festival last month (and per hour of sport shown, much less than the cost of my ticket to watch an hour and a half of dreary premiership football that I was somehow talked into going to a few years back), so it’s not just an F1 problem
Sounds a bit like a scam doesn’t it?
If I was watching the event on TV, I might be persuaded to
purchase a ticket to the LIVE event because the Atmosphere appeals to me.
What a surprise I’d get to show up and see an empty stadium.
(sounds a bit like something that is right up F1′s alley!)
I’m surprised this hasn’t been done before. I remember years ago at the Indianapolis 500, there was a TV shot of the turn 4 and infield area taken from high up in the stands. Every few minutes, different advertisements would “appear” in the infield section. I’ve always thought hey, why not “fans” in the stands?
Joe,
Does anyone really care? I mean really? Sounds as though someone with a business degree has too much time on their hands. I don’t watch an event (F1, ATP Tennis or anything else for that matter..) because the stands might be full or empty. If it is an event that interests me, I will watch it.
For discussion purposes, it is interesting to note that several F1 races don’t have a lot of fans present – as many have said before, it costs too much. Of course, this explains the bizarre remarks and suggestions from rocket scientists like Bernie Ecclestone (and no, you don’t need to be smart to make money – there are plenty of very rich idiots around) to the press hoping to generate interest in things that are not going to happen.
I hope all the “virtual fans” don’t make any virtual hand gestures when their virtually bored waiting for someone to make an on track pass. Now, if you really want to make it interesting, how about putting a couple of virtual cars on the track. Then if the action slows down, the virtual cares, perhaps with a virtual Niki Lauda driving, can make some virtual passes.
I can hardly wait.
Joe,
Several times I’ve been on the verge of asking you to write about how gambling is endangering motor racing.
You must have lots of stories to tell.
But I realised you are a bit too exposed to begin lifting such rocks. Not involved of course, but too much to lose, I mean.
Dr. Mike Lawrence has made a start though, and it reads like a breath of fresh air.
He launches an excellent polemic on the call for a stiff Ferrari penalty next month, but he soon gets into the meat:
Why the WMSC must punish Ferrari:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=41771
Colin
The article hinted at the true problem with the comment “difficult to sell Formula 1 to the public, particularly in places where there is no obvious reason for a Grand Prix to be held”. Silverstone, Monaco, Spa, Monza, Melbourne, Suzuka and more unusually Singapore all have no trouble selling tickets because they’re tracks people want to go to. Hell even Magny Cours was sold out the year I went.
But really. Abu Dhabi? Bahrain? South Korea? China are the ones that have (or will have) all the empty seats because there’s no natural local fan base and nobody wants to sit in a completely featureless landscape. Maybe Mr Saward could have explored why these places are on the calendar at all. It’d be a short article – ie “because the local governments line Bernie’s pockets handsomely to bankroll these prestige fixtures.” But I guess he’s scared of having his Press Pass revoked.
hmmm, Im wondering is this the sports version of canned laughter?
Mon Pen: I cannot think of a single journalist who has highlighted the problem of such venues, or has stated the reason you give for them being on the calendar, more than Joe! It’s been a constant theme of his for ages, have you not been reading him over the years?
I’m with ambient sheep – Joe, along with Mike Lawrence over at Pitpass, has been very good at highlighting the absurdity of some of the venues F1 goes to these days.
Mon Pen, some of the new races aren’t there to sell tickets but to sell the destination. This means that empty grand stands are almost (only almost) irrelevant compared to the main aim of getting people who are watching the race on TV to the location at any time. Bahrain and Abu Dhabi are prime examples of this attempt. If they can get tourists there to visit the theme parks, shopping precinct, local area, etc and also go to the next GP then even better.
Ambient Sheep: Mea culpa, I haven’t been following JS for long so I don’t know where he stands on these issues.
wlephino: Fair point. Why then build enormous grandstands so they can just stand there looking embarrassingly empty? Somebody didn’t think through how bad it looks. Better small full stands than huge empty ones surely.
Mon Pen, correct. Huge empty grand stands make the place look even more empty than no grand stands. As to why, you’d have to ask each country. Tilke designs them with lovely full grand stands in mind (with lots of people drawn on to make them look full, I presume) but then no one takes a moment to think that maybe they should have a small sell out and build more stands for year 2, 3, etc rather than make space for people who won’t be there.
Maybe Bernie shows each new place the movie Field Of Dreams…
Hell Yeah!