The suggestion made by Gerhard Berger that Mark Webber was trying to take out one of his World Championship rivals as his crashed Red Bull bounced off the wall in the wet in Korea is, frankly, a ridiculous claim and does not warrant any serious reporting.
However, one does have to ask why a seemingly intelligent man like Berger would have come up with such a daft comment. The conspiracy theorists will no doubt say that this is all part of some devious Germanic masterplan to assist Sebastian Vettel to win the World Championship. I doubt that this is the case, but on the other hand it is hard to explain it otherwise. It serves no purpose for Berger beyond making him sound as though he is losing his grip on reality, and if it is an attempt to use the media to create pressure on Webber at a time when pressure is really not needed, it is spectacularly clumsy.
Webber would be best served to ignore it, irritating though it may be.
The oral equivalent of a frog in a hotel room…or was it a snake?
Quite.
And if one looks at the Turkey clash between the two Red Bulls, you’ll notice that Vettel did indeed actually let his foot off the brake to try and hit Webber while Mark was trying to drive around the outside of him on the tarmac run off area.
Short memories and all sparked from a tweet from Rosberg.
Also, although Mark may well have broken left steering arm he may not have known that at the time, and was rolling to a stop to gather it all together again. Until Rosberg arrived. I wonder of the steering was broken after the initial glance of the wall. Might he have continued.
All irrelevant now, but looking at it from Mark’s point of view….
TM
What a strange thing to say! Surely the only title challenger likely to be removed from the race would be Webber himself. Makes you wonder why he said it though, there certainly seems to be some strange goings on at Red Bull amongst the ever vocal Berger and panto villain Marko (boooooo!). I can’t imagine why one faction within a team would try and de stabilise the other at such a critical time, especially as the only person who will benefit is F1s’ other panto villain Alonso…..oh yes he is
Nico Rosberg also questioned whether Webber could have done more to stop his car bouncing back across the track. He suspected Webber wasn’t on the brakes after he went into the barriers.
But it’s a bit of a leap to go from that to saying it was an intentional attempt to take someone out.
Unluckily for Webber he eliminated the one driver who might have had a chance of beating Alonso to the win.
I think the reason Berger said what he did was that Webber didn’t follow protocol when he crashed ie he didn’t engage the brakes after impact and he allowed the car to move back into the track. Which by the way was a point Rosberg made too.
However getting from why didn’t Webber brake to the conspiracy theory it does require a lot of assumptions that I am not comfortable making. I ‘d prefer to call it a Webber error and be done with it.
Gerhard’s comment was possibly prompted by Nico Rosberg’s observation that he didn’t understand why Webber didn’t hit the brakes to avoid rolling back across the track after the impact.
Actually, he almost got Alonso!
The historic and current links between Red Bull and Gerhard would raise the suspicions of the conspiracy theorists but Gerhard’s such a straight-up guy its hard to see him saying such nonsense. Is it possible he’s had words put in his mouth? Or, perhaps more likely, that he had had a few too many schnapps when a journalist spoke to him? Or of course, he’s simply having a laugh…!
Well put Joe!
Joe,
Equally one must ask the question Rosberg mooted after the race – why didn’t Webber hit the brakes? By not doing so he created that possibility by allowing the car to roll across the track.
He appeared to be going slowly enough and was far enough out of the previous corner that the other drivers could have avoided him if he stopped in the middle of the circuit, as Alonso did while Webber was still mid-spin. He may well have had to pit for a new nose but could still have scored some vital points.
I just don’t get why he didn’t at least try.
JamesF1,
Who knows? Maybe the brakes were not working?
I used to respect Berger. However, I find three flaws in his reasoning:
1) That Mark was able to process the movement of the car, realise he was screwed and plan to take out a rival all in a fraction of a second. If he was able to do this, he would not have crashed in the first place.
2) Mark was running 3rd, behind his two rivals. Taking out Hamilton is pretty unnecessary.
3) Webber has already had one spectacular crash. Having someone his him side on at 200km/hr does not do his title chances any good, as he would have a much lower chance of winning one if he is deceased.
Into the “Seen but not heard from” box with you Gerhard. Oh, and take Helmut Marko with you.
kthxbai
Joe. Did Gerhard really make this comment. Suggest you phone home and get his views. I always liked his down to earth attitude.
Me thinks that Mr Marko is still trying to ensure that his young charge
still wins out in 2010, and will do anything to ensure this happens
Honestly it was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw Webber rolling backwards.
And don’t get me wrong, I would love to see him clinching the World Championship, but even a couple of days after the race I still think that might be what happend.
But I agree that without evidence and being a “public person” as Berger is, you cannot say something like this in the media.
I had to laugh when gerhard suggested this.
It’s a ridiculous notion because for starters there’s not much chance of decently aiming a car with 3 working wheels while rolling backwards on a slippery track. Not to mention it’s not Mark’s style.
Elephino,
Points well made. I wish that some other readers were as sensible…
To be fair to Gerhard, similarly, my initial reaction was that Mark had tried, having just ended his race, to block the track and cause a red flag. Unless the knock against the wall incapacitated his brakes (which is possible), there is no excuse why he rolled back across the track infront of oncoming cars. It is something preached by every Clerk of the Course at every race track across the world: You do not roll broadside across a live racetrack if you can help it! Pressure can do funny things to a person, especially when that person has just thrown away the championship lead all on their tod.
Having had a few days to digest the GP, I am now more of the opinion he was trying to get OFF the track as quick as possible, and that It was just executed clumsily. Very Mark Webber.
Joe, do you know when this quote of Berger’s was captured? During the race or in the days since? May explain a few things. That or he is just having a good old stir!
The operative word is ‘seemingly.’ The man is clearly nuts.
Couldn’t agree more, to suggest that Webber would chance massive injury by slewing across oncoming traffic in the hope of increasing his championship position is pretty far fetched. But we Australians have not forgotten Helmet Marko’s position post Turkey, nor the treatment metered out to Craig Lowndes in F3000 in 1997 at RSM Marko either, so a German-Austrian conspiracy to destabilise our Aussie seems on the money as a motive for these comments.
Has Berger gone from good time funny guy to just plain strange?
It it is true that Gerhard said such a damm comment on Weber, I am sadly disillusioned with him.
Agreed Joe,
It seems ridiculous to me as well. Webber seems to be very committed to safety and not the kind of guy who will play those tricks (if any on those fraction seconds is able to take such a decision to let their car spin to take someone else out).
With all due respect to ex-F1 drivers, sometimes their comments are totally out of place, like Bergers fellow coutryman Lauda.
Poor Webber, I think he is being unfairly treated.
Do you think that all this could be because he could move to Ferrari to swap drives with Massa?
Red Bull is really showing its bias for Vettel, and I find the whole thing deplorable. They have treated Mark shockingly this season; he has shown himself to be among the best and they respond by saying they will build the team around Vettel.
Red Bull wanted Mark to be humble like Reubens and are reacting badly now that he is showing up his teammate. I hope they have difficulty finding a driver to replace Webber when he goes. I’d love to see Red Bull bring back Alex Yeoung or Takuma Sato.
Dear Herr Berger, we’d like to enquire as to your availability for a quick game of deliberate Hoppo Bumpo? Your first opponent will be the people of Queanbeyan NSW followed by Alan Jones. Mr Brabham will send his second….
The Premier of NSW
The thing about Gerhard is that he was always, without exception, beaten by his team mate.
With the exception of a couple of victories the rest were at circuits that complemented his rather black and white driving style.
Give him a V12, a load of straights and some late braking areas and he’ll be competitive. Give him somewhere slow and technical he was pretty trashy.
The really annoying thing about Berger though was that he thought he was an engineer that knew everything about automotive engineering…it just wasn’t the case!
But you an intelligent man also wrote that Vettel was trying to have the race stopped after lap 42 as he knew that his engine was in trouble.
Why is there so much bias in the English press? why can’t journalists be more neutral?
williamsF1
This is not bias, it is simply a neutral assessment of what happened. It was obvious that it was not dark when Vettel said it was. This was clearly an attempt to get the race stopped early. The English race engineer who said that it was “dangerous” was not a German! McLaren understood the game that Red Bull Racing was trying to play and asked Lewis about the light. He replied that it was fine. These were messages designed for the Race Director. He has been round the block a few times and ignored the question of light. A couple of laps later Vettel slows and blows. A lot of folk in F1 smiled when they saw the Red Bull blow up because it was clear then that he had been trying it on, hoping to get the race stopped. Any sensible German F1 reporter would reach the same conclusions. That is called gamesmanship. It has nothing to do with nationality… and I have no idea why you seek to blame the English press… for spotting it.
What scares me is that I have seen people agreeing with Berger. Utter madness.
Berger needs to have another look at the direction that Webber is turning the steering wheel and the actual direction the front wheels are pointing and then seriously ask himself if he thinks Webber is able to aim anywhere.
Joe,
Why Berger is dumber than a box of rocks!
1) It was wet and the coefficent of friction is very low, put on the brakes and all that happens is you lock the wheels and you still go across the track (and collect Rosberg). Same outcome, but with brakes off the time you spend on the track in harms way is reduced. If you bounce off the wall better to get to the other side as quick as possible.
2) Webbers first thought buired in a cockpit where he cant see all the damage would be “can I keep going?” and “Can I minimize the damage by staying/getting off the wall?”
3) His feet, if they came off the brakes, were likely self preservation thoughts to ensure his very long legs (for F1 driver) did not get sheered off with the nose in subsequent impacts. I am sure every driver is mindfull of other drivers who have recieved extensive leg damage in a crash.
I am 100% convinced that Webbers thoughts were self preservation and for an F1 driver, recover the car. The best drivers ALWAYS try to recover as soon as the limit is exceeded. That is what makes them the very best drivers!
Sounds like Helmut Marko, Gehard’s old Manager, is pulling the strings on this press release!
Haha Joe, an expected comment from a Brittish person. However, is what Berger is saying really that unrealistich? We know the likes of Schumacher and Senna didn’t care if they had to run into their oppenents to win. Would it really be that strange if Webber actually did think about maybe trying to take a title competitor with him if he could?
Not saying he Webber did and maybe Berger shouldn’t say it in public but I can perfectly understand why Berger would think this way and why Webber might actually did something like this.
well… maybe berger commented on it as a former f1 driver… who thought it was totally unnecessary for webber to turn the steering wheel to the right… as he was sliding backwards after having hit the barrier…
the video does show webber steering to the right…. why? maybe we should ask webber.
it was pretty dangerous what he did, and it was safer if he just held the steering wheel to let the car reach the gravel trap on the right side of the track (instead of crossing over to the left side of the track)
i dont believe that webber would deliberately want to take someone out… only schumacher could do that… but why did he steer right? have a look at the inboard camera.
I am a Webber fan. But I am of the same opinion as Gerhard Berger. I found it quite odd that Webber let the car roll into the firing line. This is why Rosberg tweeted his confusion as to why Webber didn’t apply the brakes. I also found his steering input quite odd as well, to direct the car back onto the racing line once he hit the wall. You will notice the opposite lock initially prior to hitting the wall, and then once he hit the wall he turned the wheel the other way. I guess he has Alonso’s killer instinct. I’m dissapointed for Rosberg, and glad Webber didn’t take out one of his contenders.
Joe,
Saw that comment from Berger this morning.
What’s Gerhard been smoking, because something has stewed his brain.
So, Weber just sits there, waiting to spear across the track in an attempt to take out Hamilton or Button. Never mind the fact that Webber could be killed if he was Tee Boned.
These Germans/ Austrians are paranoid about winning the Championship.
I hope Webber wins it…..Be nice if he won ithe championship and told RED BULL where to go.
Just shows what happens when someone drinks too much of that stuff…
Hi Joe,
Agreed. WTF is Berger thinking? Too much schnapps prior to speaking, methinks.
Having said that, it’s interesting that Red Bulll have made it clear that they are still not supporting Webber over Vettel in the WC title chase, even ith 2 races to go and the points gap that exists (Seb 25 points behind Alonso) .
I just can’t see a red bull driver winning it unless they change this policy. Would the RB team have a different policy if it were Vettel in a challenging position instead of Webber?
Cheers
Julian F
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought Mr. Berger’s claims were ridiculous. As you suggest, I hope the media doesn’t run with this ignorance.
I think you are missing the point.
Rosberg commented after the race, that he did not understand why Webber did not have his foot on the brake (which would have stopped his car from running backwards across the track in front of the cars coming up behind him).
When I saw the incident, live, I thought it strange myself and was worried that Webber had been hurt, or had lost consciousness.
I think the norm in F1, would be to regard all that comes to pass with an extremely cynical eye. History has repeatedly shown us, that if someone can do anything to win an edge they will.
Try to recall incident where cars have rolled back onto and across the track. Picquet JR, springs to mind. Schumacher/Hill sort of, although he accelerated forwards at the appropriate moment.
Most drivers are fully aware, when crashing, that they want to stop the car from running around as much as possible, for their own safety as well as others, however, on slower parts of the track, opportunities present themselves.
Actually it is a pretty valid claim, one that ever Rosberg has backed up. He could have easily locked the brakes and kept the car against the wall, but knew he would be better off to try to bounce into one of his title rivals.
Chris,
Yes and how about being killed when you are hit sideways on?
Deal Joe, and all.
(I plead “australian”, and Webber fan up front)
There has been commentary to this effect on several websites- that Webber should have, and could have, hit the brakes rather than roll into the path of Nico.
Perhaps so, but there is a huge gulf between not applying brakes and deliberately taking Nico out. Some make the accusation that Mark deliberately staged the prang to do so.
I’m assuming that Mark would have been advised that it was Nico, not Fernando or Lewis imeediately behind him. Correct me if I’m wrong.
What possible advantage could Mark draw from deliberately pranging his car, and, timing the rebound perfectly to take Nico out, thus ensuring zero championship points, whilst aware that Seb was leading, and, at the time, would have leap frogged him in the Drivers’ Championship standings???
Perhaps it’s as simple as, for instance, he was having an “oh s*#t” moment, as he realised the implications of his prang on his lead. It’s called human error.
And, perhaps Herr Berger could be excused under the heading of “brain explosion”.
Even when the racing is, arguably, a tad boring, the soap opera aspect of f1 serves to entertain!!
Cheers
MarkR
Lauda, Berger, etc…
In http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtmHJEghlUk#t=0m30s can see:
- broken left front suspension
- broken left rear suspension
- right front wheel without grip
- right rear suspension ok ?
Probably impossible to stop.
Impossible to turn.
Curious about 2 things – I could not tell but I understand that Webber was not braking hard if at all once he was in the spin. If true why would that be? Also, I do wonder what the media would make of the incident if it had been Schuey instead of Webber spinning and taking out a rival. Right or wrong I’d guess there would be a lot more support for Berger’s theory if it was Schuey. Interesting what a man will do under preassure…
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/go-and-have-a-lie-down-gerhard/ [...]
This is just to note that Berger is, of course, Austrian, not German. He was also the first driver to be sponsored by Red Bull.
What is it with Austrians and their loud opinions? Lauda, lawyer Marko and now Berger. The must teach impertinence in their schools.
When he bounced off the wall (which let’s not forget – he didn’t want to do) all he was doing was trying get get out of the middle of the road. Unfortunately Nico couldn’t avoid him but the point is that he didn’t want to be a sitting duck to anyone, championship rival or otherwise.
Berger’s comment just doesn’t make any logical sense. Espeically for an ex-driver.
In Berger’s defense, as a racer, it is particularly galling when you see a competitor take someone out (especially if it’s you) because they didn’t bring the car to a stop after a spin or crash. I’ve been taken out of a race because some drove into my racing line after they spun.
I agree that the suggestion of intention on Webber’s part is ridiculous, but assuming that he could have stopped the car by applying the brakes is was a rookie mistake by a seasoned vet.
I have basically three versions: a) this is an example of Berger’s sense of humour b) there is some rift between Berger and Webber that we don’t know about c) the old guy is desperately longing for some publicity
I just remember the stories about Berger’s “activities” outside the track in the “good old days” like tearing up another driver’s passport or ‘racing’ Alesi in a street car on the public streets all night long and crashing into him for several times. Some of these are probably thought up but telling nonsense to press after such “activities” doesn’t seem that mad at all.
Or maybe Berger has some bad memories of a similar crash where he was in a similar position like Rosberg. I recently read a Jacque Villeneuve’s opinion in F1 Racing that was just ridiculous. He blamed Kovalainen for Webber’s shunt in Valencia. But then I accidentally watched the footage of Gilles Villeneuve’s death – he died in a very similar accident to Webber’s one in European GP so that explained Jacques’ position.
Please stop portraying people from Austria as those carrying out “devious Germanic masterplans”. I realize that historcally there is some truth to the accusation, and there is arguably a good number of idiots left in our country. But 70 years on some things have changed – an for the people who have changed, too (and I hope and suspect Mr. Berger is one of them) the accusation is hurtful.
Guy from Austria,
That was what we in England call a joke. Sorry you did not get it.
Gerhard was always a joker – so were there any credible witnesses to his alleged statements that can certify the position of his tongue in his cheek?
Berger is probably right; Webber is slowest of the top 4 drivers, and has shown on several occasions this year quite a low level of sportsmanship… most often killing Hamilton´s chances (Australia, Singapore..)
)
In fact, it was my first impression watching the Korean GP – “WTF – he´s not braking?? aah, trying to take Hamster with him!”
We´ve seen far worse things happening not so long ago (Flavio..) – so why would one be so surprised with this little trick now ?
There’s no doubt he didn’t mean it to happen, but I do question why he turned his steering wheel to take his car back across the track (the incar show him turn it!) and didn’t hit the brakes. Rosberg was on for 2nd place at that point as he had the pace to beat Hamilton who finished 2nd. A real shame for Nico, and an odd move by Mark, perhaps that’s what Gerhard was alluding to?
Well, notwithstanding what Cynic has said in another thread about none of the five contenders being worthy this year, I have to say I’m supporting Mark wholeheartedly. I’m not a Webber fan particularly, and Red Bull I can take or leave (probably leave). But if Mark does succeed in winning this year, I will be very happy.
We can still wonder what the situation would be for JB without the Monaco bung and the sudden transverse intrusion of Vettel into his sidepod, of course, but what’s done is done…
Hmmmm,,,,, considering that you are standing just in front of Mark Webber in the photo, next to your column, can only lead one to the conclusion that you are part of the conspiracy also.
Maybe Berger is correct,,,,, hmmm!
Chicken,
Yes, I was once within four feet of Flavio Briatore but that does not make me a party to Singapore 2008…
Yes clearly Mark was a passenger at that point. At first I wondered why he allowed his car away from the wall and into the driving line, but on replay you could see the damage prevented him from any control.
What an exciting moment that was! For a man whom Joe may love and paddock journalists feel “deserving”, MW is no World Champion and I was jumping off the couch as he threw his one shot down the drain. Vettel’s engine failure may have changed all that, relegating him to a support position for MW to chase Alonso. The highs and lows of racing, what fun!
But still the question remains of why it *seemed* as though Webber did not apply the brakes as he went back onto the track after hitting the wall. Without a comment from Webber, the team, or seeing telemetry data we cannot know the answer.
Joe, can you inquire with the team and find out if the brakes were applied after he hit the wall?
Now obviously I’m not suggesting Webber is guilty, but when I watched the race that very thought did enter my mind!!
The way he rolled across the track was very blatant…
Acrobat747,
Blatant is the wrong word. How do you know why he was rolling backwards?
so, you are saying no driver has ever consciously made a move to take-out another driver he was battling with for the WDC?
cvrt
No. I am not saying that, but doing that as you are crashing out is not the work of a moment…
Joe,
Apologies, you misunderstand me. In my opinion it was blatant and I think this is the correct word to express my opinion.
How does anyone know why he went rolling across the track…
I’m just saying I think it was a blatant attempt to take out Lewis or Fernando.
Acrobat,
You are entitled to your opinion. I do not agree.
Actually, I have it from a reliable source that Vettel knew his engine was going to break and had it put in Mark’ car. Mark, no dummy had it put back in Seb’s car. He was all set except then he made a mental mistake and slid off track!
SPOT.ON
I think it was the wrong time for Berger to put even more pressure on Webber. I don´t see why he would think it was a good idea. I have replayed the off again and again, and since the only person here who knows more than anyone is Joe, I agree with him, that the comment was ill-timed.
I do have one question, Joe. You said that when Vettel mentioned it was getting dark it wasn´t, but wasn´t he driving with a darker visor than the rest? So surely it must have been very dark and almost impossible for him to see properly? Just curious….
TomV
According to Auto Motor und Sport, if Webber had retired on the spot and Hamilton had continued in Singapore, then Danny Sullivan (the driver steward) would have considered Hamilton’s action to be worthy of a penalty.
boltonjon, Toastie Joe
According to the report that I read, Berger made the comments to Servus TV in Austria. Several quotes were attributed to him.
I am not sure if Joe would want to publicise another site. If he doesn’t mind, here is the URL of the report.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/mark-webber-blindsided-you-tried-to-take-out-rival/story-e6frg7mf-1225944424567
F1-Tips.com
Perhaps you should recall Berger’s record against Fabi and Alboreto.
I thought it was very amusing listening to the various radio transmissions regarding the poor light in Korea. So Vettel thought the light was bad but funnily enough Alonso and Hamilton both thought it was fine, you would have to be pretty naive to think that these were the genuine opinions of the drivers. The camera footage showed the track to be quite bright but as Trundle said on the BBC the camera is better than the human eye and it was dark! The pit lane camera showed a more realistic amount of available light and it wasn’t a lot. The point is if Vettel could see perfectly and his pursuers couldn’t see past the end of their nosecones the radio chatter would have been exactly the same. It is easily possible that Vettel could have felt the engine tightening or losing power, and just as possible that the team could see on the telemetry that the lump wasn’t long for this world. Hence the entirely understandable attempt to get the race called early for poor light, its what every team and driver on the grid would have done in that situation.
Well… It’s quite obvious to me, while watching it right now that he was trying to either get off the racing line for the left hander and/or get to the opening in the wall behind him… Quite a clever guy IMO .. Watch it again people.
Racerx
Lmao fantastic
Watching the video more closely, it seems Webber’s car only has two wheels touching the ground (maybe only one actually).
Seems like both right wheels are above the ground…
Wonder whether it’s even possible to brake in those conditions.
Racerx,
That sounds brilliantly plausible. When does your next Harry potter book come out?
I think you are thinking of days of thunder ?
Joe, I think Thomas put it very well.
Watching it live I also immediately thought: he’s voluntarily and controlledly rolling backwards across the track. We regularly see crashes where the driver just has the brakes full on before and after an impact until they come to a complete halt. Mark released the brakes after the impact and steered right, have a look at a replay.
Maybe he was trying to get off the racing line, but then misjudged it. Of course Berger can’t prove his claim, but Webber is one of the most cunning and quick-witted guys in F1, so I find it difficult to assume that this happened as it did without any intention from Webber’s part.
“but doing that as you are crashing out is not the work of a moment…”
…unless you were,say, a Dick Dastardly-type like Schumacher or Alonso. Webber simply not wired similarly?
racerx……is that you Jim from PT??? Its me…Racehound!!
Racerx
Your “reliable” source isn’t at all familiar with F1′s current engine regulations.
I think generally a persons negative comments about another reflects what they would have done in the same situation. Thus, as Berger thinks Webber deliberatley rolled into Rosberg, for me it reads that he would have done what he is blaming Webber for if he was ever GOOD ENOUGH to battle for a championship.
Couldnt quite tick all the boxes as a driver, but from the outside it looks like he knew how to run a team.
If the Red Bull organisation does not beat Ferrari/Alonso they will only have themselves to blame. Comment by Berger on the crash, and by Horner saying “we are building around Vettel” why would you say this 3 races from end of season? when they have a chance to win? This is not how you handle elite athletes minds. These and others are symtoms of the apparent anti Webber/pro German Vettel forces in the organisation. Webber has to fight politics in his own team as well as trying to beat Ferrari and McLaren. Vettel was not ready this year to take responsibility for team leadership. He is fast , talented but reckless and seems to be hard on equipment more than most. Maybe he will be ready next year. Mark was their best chance from Monaco onwards. This was only his second mistake all year.
A lot of arm chair experts in here. Webber had no time to think about who was behind him, how many points he was losing, who he could take out, etc etc.
Being a grassroots competitor and having spun at high speed I can tell you it happens a lot faster than it looks on the outside of the car. The first instinct is to try and catch it; if you didn’t try and catch it you would find you have an aweful lot of spins. Once the car is out of control you have 2/5s of stuff all to think through your next step; it’s easy to say “mash the brakes”. But that doesn’t factor in reaction times around 0.5s, then another 0.5s for your foot to react, at the speed he was going in that 1s he was already in the wall. The hit probably knocked his feet from the pedals and he may very well have applied the brakes, just not to the pedal since his foot was no longer on the pedal. That said, how come Rosberg came through, at what appears to be, full speed still? I am both a Webber and Rosberg fan but it was 100% a racing incident and at that speed no one is going to risk it all.
I find what happened very odd. I don’t understand why Webber made no effort to stop the car steering right when that put him in the most danger. Normally a driver coming off a wall like that would steer left.
There also seemed to be no effort to brake. Going backwards with the front wheels unloaded and most of the brake balance on them I don’t understand why the front wheels didn’t lock unless Webber didn’t brake at all.
Whether Webber tried to take someone out or not I don’t know. But if his plan was to take out a following car he would have steered right and not braked and that is exactly what happened.
[...] Go and have a lie down Gerhard The suggestion made by Gerhard Berger that Mark Webber was trying to take out one of his World Championship rivals as [...] [...]
Joe,
Haven’t the Germans won enough World Championships? Seven at last count….
Looking forward to Interlagos where there is plenty of opportunity for overtaking at the end of the long run from the last corner. Perhaps Baby Vettel won’t have such an advantage over Webber there.
Either Berger’s tongue was firmly in his cheek or he has been smoking something……
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/go-and-have-a-lie-down-gerhard/ [...]
racerx, engines are for a particular driver. Once it’s been assigned to a car/driver, it stays with them and their allocation of 8. Vettel had used 8 engines at some point prior to Korea, Webber started using his 8th at Korea.
Three experienced F1 drivers (Berger, Nico Rosberg and Marc Surer) have immediately seen that there was cause for investigation. Why did race control and the stewards completely disregard the strange aspect that Webber apparently did not break when his car rolled away from the crash and back on track? I would really like to ask that question to Alan Jones. In my view he neglected his duty to investigate that accident. It is strange that Mercedes did not call for an investigation either. A possible explanation is their non involvement in the WDC. Still it would have been beneficial if the data of the FiA crash recorder were looked at.
May Mark win it all and say something apropo again to Horner et al when he takes the last checker flag.
I couldn’t believe it when Berger came up with that. I know he has a great sense of humour but it came across as plain stupid and the news media take it all very seriously.
How much control does Webber have after he’s hit the wall and is flying backwards across the track with left rear stuffed, right rear & left front partly off the ground, right front fully off the ground and an ice rink for a track surface. Braking wouldn’t have made any difference.
Hi,
Thanks for being a sport and answering to as many posts as possible.
Williamsf1
Oh yes. Because it’s so easy to control a car and stop it when it’s SOAKING WET, when the front wheel is a foot in the air and your suspension – and likely the steering arm – is broken.
Not to mention feeling a little dizzy after SUCH an impact.
Oh yes, of COURSE he did it on purpose.
A man who has been on the GPDA, an outspoken advocate of safety, for many years. A man who prides himself on racing tough, but fair. Of COURSE he would have tried to kill himself, only to see his teammate lead the world championship. It all makes sense now!
/sarcasm
I think Berger said this in jest,never to be taken seriously,drivers used to take each other out in the past but the media has made a mountain out of a mole hill.
You could argue why didn,t Rosberg slow down and change direction……
Accidents happen.
I get the message from Mr M …via berger
behaviour like this is why we will continue to back St Vettel for the WDC
@Steve W:
Rosberg was already in the path of the car, he had already been positioning himself for the nect turn, he simply had no where to go.
BTW, some here suggest that three experienced drivers have called for an investigation. However, I haven´t read anywhere that Rosberg called for an investigation. I have read a comment from him saying it was “crazy”, but is he referring to the crash itself or to Webber trying to take him out? No one knows because all Rosberg said was “crazy”.
Apparently, almost anyone can be taken seriously! Yes, I know the F1 engine rules and the plausiblity of such an engine swap are nil, but some thought otherwise.
Just a bit of tonque in cheek!
Stuff happens and that’s why it’s called an accident.
I can’t be sure whether this is true or not, but could be easily determined from the telemetry data. I’m sure that FIA would happily review any official complaint from any team, but this hasn’t happened yet, right ?
Peter Windsor (@PeterDWindsor):
Gerhard Berger criticising Mark Webber is a bit like me publicly finding fault with the writing of Ernest Hemingway. #F1
What about simple physics? The car BOUNCED off the wall, deflecting it in a direction back across the track. Applying the brakes does not suddenly cause the car to run parallel to the track, and brakes on wet grass are useless, the coefficient of friction might as well be 0.
If he had applied brakes, he would have reduced his speed across the track and likely taken out Alonso which would have been much more favourable for him.
I also don’t see how he could have changed the direction of the car without any grip to play with, oh and the small fact his steering was destroyed.
Absolutely ridiculous to suggest he could have done anything different.