A couple of days ago the FIA announced its entry list for 2011. A look at the FIA website today reveals that there is now a second version of the same document, with Lewis Hamilton having jumped from number 4 to number 3 and Pastor Maldonado popping up as number 12 alongside Rubens Barrichello at Williams.
I am not quite sure what to make of this…
Joe,
Why is Schumacher ahead of Rosberg again? Surely he can’t pull that trick again now everyone knows he’s not as good.
Jon Waldock
Ours not to reason why…
I found it strange that Lewis Hamilton was No. 4 and Jenson Button No. 3, considering Hamilton had finished ahead of Button in the standings. Guess they’ve made that right. Maybe someone wasn’t paying attention while preparing the list. This shows that things could change on the Lotus front as well!
There’s one more change: Fernandes’ team was earlier “Team Lotus” & now it says “Lotus Renault”.
Hash,
No, it is still Team Lotus.
I am surprised McLaren didn’t have the professionalism to get the 3 & 4 placings sorted before going to press. This, to Jensons fans, will appear to be a snub/favouritism/conspiracy especially as number 4 is supposed to be the worst single digit number, however the same move last year didn’t help Michael much.
Peter,
Who is to say that it was not the fault of the FIA. Or a misunderstanding. You are jumping to a lot of conclusions.
Joe,
Looks like you have blinked gain. I have just checked it now and it is “Lotus Renault”. Link:http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/12/11580.html
Pasted below:
Red Bull Racing Renault
1 Sebastian Vettel (DEU)
2 Mark Webber (AUS)
McLaren Mercedes
3 Lewis Hamilton (GBR)
4 Jenson Button (GBR)
Ferrari
5 Fernando Alonso (ESP)
6 Felipe Massa (BRA)
Mercedes
7 Michael Schumacher (DEU)
8 Nico Rosberg (DEU)
Renault
9 Robert Kubica (POL)
10 TBA
Williams Cosworth
11 Rubens Barrichello (BRA)
12 Pastor Maldonado (VEN)
Force India Mercedes
14 TBA
15 TBA
Sauber Ferrari
16 Kamui Kobayashi (JPN)
17 Sergio Perez Mendoza (MEX)
STR Ferrari
18 TBA
19 TBA
Lotus Renault
20 Jarno Trulli (ITA)
21 Heikki Kovalainen (FIN)
HRT Cosworth
22 TBA
23 TBA
Virgin Cosworth
24 TBA
25 TBA
Hash,
Looks like you are not listening… You have made a mistake. You are looking in the wrong place. You are quoting the names of the cars and the engines, not the official entry list. They are different things. Your list is on the http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/12/11580.html page. This is not run by the FIA. It is owned and run by the Formula One group, which holds the commercial rights to Formula 1 racing. They do not, incidentally, own http://www.formulaone.com, which is bizarre as this is actually the name they own the rights to…
The official entry list is to be found by clicking here.
Hi Joe
I’ve got a couple of questions:
Any idea why MS has number 7? Surely Rosberg should have 7 with MS 8?
How do they determine who gets what number?
Who gets to choose the numbers? Does the FIA choose them or do the teams tell the FIA which number they’d like for which driver?
Brian,
It does not work like that. Only 1 and 2 are dictated by the FIA. After that the teams decide
Out of interest, how important are the driver numbers to the driver? Obviously this does not include the fabled number 1, but I personally can’t see Hamilton or Button being particularly bothered by the changes – at the end of the day, neither of them won the championship!
It is reported elsewhere that Schumacher considers even numbers to be unlucky. Is that from carrying the number 1 on his car for too many years?
Well of course I am jumping to conclusions Joe, how else do conspiracies start?
Maybe they could paint last year’s points totals on the side of Schumacher and Rosberg’s cars, that would guarantee the master a MUCH lower number – which he seems to like.
Schumacher last year said that he felt that even numbers were unlucky for him. His team probably remembered.
Just wondering if the FIA simply kept Lewis and Jense in the number order they were in this year as they don’t make decisions about numbers within teams except for the number 1.
Macca then got on the blower…
Seems plausible?
“I am not quite sure what to make of this… ”
Isn’t it all explained by the phrase ‘For Media Information Purposes – No Regulatory Value’ appended to the end?
The “Lotus Renault” under the Constructor column for Team Lotus reflects the chassis/engine combination. If Bahar gets his way, then the Renault F1Team would change to Lotus Renault F1 – oh I hope not!
The McLaren numbering of 3/4 could easily be a mistake by the FIA or by the team, or maybe a decision by the team later to honour the championship position after agreeing such with the drivers.
btw… The FIA only allocate numbers to the teams based on Constructors positions, except for 1&2 which goes to the WDC and teammate. The teams have no obligation to number their drivers based on championship position, and can allocate as they see fit. Normally, as per Mercedes and probably most other teams, the sequence is left unchanged year on year. In the case of McLaren, assuming that Lewis is definitely 3 and Jenson 4, this must have been discussed with the drivers or perhaps came from the drivers themselves, as both Jenson & Lewis seem like the kind to agree this kind of thing up front as sportsmanship.
DougieCow,
I think that there was a glitch in the system somewhere. I do not think that Lewis made a fuss at all.
Is the FIA obliged to release an official entry list by a certain date?
Considering the list is not yet finalized and probably won’t be until early next year, why publish the list now?
Hey it’s not as if the reigning world champion team forgot to fax its entry is it? I mean, that could never happen…
I’m with contributor Jon – why is Rosberg below Schumacher? Also, HRT appears above Virgin – or perhaps after 10th place, it does not matter.
My default assumption is that it’s the FIA’s error – their IT operation is known not to be of the best. Remember the transcript of the first McLaren “spygate” hearing, where the “redacted” portions of the PDF document were trivially readable by copy-and-paste?
The only number on the nose of the car that truly matters is the #1…the rest are insignificant…6 or 7…9 or 10, they matter very little to the team and fans alike.
what to make of it? hamilton gets number 1 standing within the team (rightly so) and maldonado is confirmed as second williams driver (as everyone expected)
what i find interesting is the second renault seat and both STR seats are not confirmed…
Actually come to think of it Joe, any idea why we abandoned the team choice for car numbers? I miss the classic 27 on the Ferrari, or even the “red 5″ of Nigel. MotoGp still carries rider preference numbers!
Jon Waldock,
I’ll try …
So MS is there to give the kid some advice..
“Lesson No. 1, Son, is the other guy comes second.”
“See?”
Jon
One of the more amusing suggested reasons for it is that so the coloured t-cam strips matches the respective drivers’ helmets.
Rosberg had double the points of Schumacher in 2010. He therefore warrants 7 rather than 8 as his car number.
Mike Lea,
It does not work like that.
I get the feeling this could be one of many drafts before the season begins
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/blink-and-the-f1-entry-list-has-changed/ [...]
This was is also odd:
20 Jarno Trulli (ITA)
21 Heikki Kovalainen (FIN)
Should Heikki not be #20, based on the performance last year, even though they got both 0 points …
Hmm, I had not noticed before but next year all engine manufacturers will supply three teams.
I guess that’s some sort of equality there.
Joe, thanks for posting the correct list. However, it does raise a lot of questions.
First, how does the FIA receive the list of official drivers for each team. Several of those teams (STR, FI, Virgin) have “announced” drivers for next year, but in this list they appear as TBA.
Second, had Williams not lost the AT&T sponsorship for next year?
Third, I think you will find that for “Team Lotus” the constructor is indeed named as “Lotus Renault”, obviously to reflect the engine supply deal. Does that mean that they have now changed the chassis name?
All these drivers numbers… it’s such a headache and it’s only for one year, complete waste of time IMHO. How cool was Mansells Red 5! He did it so right, I think he’s still using it in the car insurance ad on telly now!
Joe didnt you mentioned before NASCAR does it well. Although I’m not sure how they do it, an god forbid I have to look at a NASCAR web site to find out.
@David Hodge,
HRT actually finished 11th in the championship, ahead of Virgin.
Hamilton, 2 numbers ahead of Alonso… Alonso will be fuming lol! McLaren maybe never even asked Lewis or Jenson an jus swapped it around to wind up Alonso!
Neil Williams said “It is reported elsewhere that Schumacher considers even numbers to be unlucky. Is that from carrying the number 1 on his car for too many years?”
It’s from his past experience of knowing that the even numbers, especially the #2, denote his current lackey/whipping boy/second fiddle or whatever else you want to call Herbert/Irvine/Barichello/Massa. Michael obvioulsy still thinks he is The King even though it’s clear his best days are behind him. Huge respect to Rosberg for how he has handled the complicated situation with Schumacher at Mercedes, knowing that eventually Schumacher will be gone and the team (or a better one perhaps) will be his for the taking, and not letting himself sink to the level that the media continues to hope he will. Rosberg has proven to be a class act in every way, which certainly could never be said of his teammate now or in the past.
The team and the drivers choose who gets what number from the two they are given by the FIA, and these decisions can be based on any number of trivial or petty factors. For example, when Alain Prost joined Williams in 1993, the team was given the race numbers 0 and 2, as world champion Nigel Mansell had jumped ship for CART. As number 1 driver in the team that year, Prost chose to have the number 2 on his car, with the exaplanation that “no-one wants to be a zero.”
On a slightly different tack, Nissan would frequently ask for – and get – the racing number 23 in series it entered, as 23 in Japanese is pronounced ‘ni-san’.
BMW boy, the Sporting Regulations say the entry list will be published by 30 November. Whether the FIA feel obliged to follow their own regs is another question.
Lorenzo, numbers have never been truly team choice. Season-long numbers were first assigned in 1974 by constructors championship order in 1973, and for a number of years teams kept the same numbers – except the new drivers champion’s team would swap each year with the previous holder of 1 and 2. This was the period of “classic” Ferrari 27. The current wholesale reassignment of numbers came in in 1998 IIRC. Before 1974 numbers were assigned on a race-by-race basis by the promoters.
Joe, i know this is a slightly off topic but regarding the timing abbreviations for the drivers; when every driver has first 3 letters of surname why does Schumacher have MSC and not SCH. If Ralf was still driving maybe to split the two but he’s not. Wondered all season and on one else knew either. Any ideas??
Thanks
Because there used to be two Schumachers and it is an old habit that did not need changing
Ferrari’s classic 27 came from Williams winning the World Drivers Championship – the only change in car numbers used to be a swap between the team that won the WDC and the previous year’s winner. Much less confusing.
Lorenzo, there never was a system that let the teams choose in F1. At least not after the introduction of numbers for the entire season. Ferrari simply inherited 27 & 28 from Williams after Jones won in 1980 and Williams took over 1 & 2 from Ferrari. Williams then inherited 5 & 6 from Brabham (twice over). For 1996 they switched to the current system. In 200x they intended to revert back to the old system, but, among others, Sauber complained after finishing 4th and be rewarded 16 & 17 instead of 7 & 8. Sauber got 7 & 8 and we use that system to this day.
Hi Joe, is there any reason, besides it being an ‘unlucky’ number, that there isn’t a car number 13?
Mike,
Number 13. Funnily enough… I wrote about this about a year ago… Click here to read the story.
Just wondering if the Schumi and Nico number thing has anything to do with the on board cameras above the principle roll structure.
Because on the first car they need to be red (this maches the main colour of Michael’s helmet) and on the second car they need to be yellow, (which matches Nico’s helmet), as happened in 2010.
I just think that it’s for pure aesthetics than any great conspiracy.
Mate, (not sure if I can call you as mate but read your blog everyday. I think you’re already a kind of friend of mine)
What you think about Schumacher’s said today? Desesperation to get a better 2011?
Adriano,
I think he needs excuses for himself. Probably believes it too. We will see next year.
Thanks to all for the clarification…so in short I have Peter Sauber to hold accountable for Alonso not running the 27…and silly me, thought the Swiss were supposed to be neutral!
Joe, et.al.
“Why there is no number 13 in Formula 1″ (linked above)
That’s a classic post. Short and where the heart is. Enjoyed it again, thanks.
– j
Regarding the number 13, I believe the the team given the numbers 14 and 15 can choose to use 13 and 14 instead, if for some reason they wish to. If they do, then the number 15 is not used that season, in order to keep the rest of the teams’ numbers unchanged.
I can’t remember where I read that, but if it was here, Joe, then I apologise for plagiarising!
Matt D,
I have never heard that one.
I will have to try and find where I read it, Joe.
Lorenzo: No, FIA switched to the current system in 1996, when Ferrari contracted Schumacher and #1 & #2 in the process. Benetton were WCC in 1995, but didn’t inherit 27 & 28, they got 3 & 4. Sauber protested against running with 16 & 17 instead of 7 & 8, but by that time, 27 & 28 were long gone.
[...] Blink… and the F1 entry list has changed A couple of days ago the FIA announced its entry list for 2011. A look at the FIA website today reveals that there is [...] [...]
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/blink-and-the-f1-entry-list-has-changed/ [...]
I have been looking for ages, and I sadly cannot find the page which suggests that the team issued with numbers 14 and 15 can swap to 13 and 14 if they prefer.
There is this:
http://www.mat.uc.pt/~rps/f1/numbers.html
which suggests that “the number 13 is not issued by organizers of car races, although a driver is allowed to request it,” but it has no sources or corroboration. I know I saw it, and it must be online, as I am in the US away from all my books, but I can’t seem to retrace my steps, so apologies for that.
Also, it has been suggested that Tyrrell’s traditional numbers of 3 and 4 were in some way a hangover from their glory days in the 70s. Does anyone know if they would have lost their numbers for 1988 if they had not won the Colin Chapman Trophy for normally aspirated cars in 1987?
Sheesh – some see conspiracy or incompetance around every corner, its a wonder the human race survives!
The sensible answer is the first list was submitted several months ago so the McL drivers were listed in the same order as 2010 with Button first.
Season is now finished so the numbers are confimired with Button behind Hamilton based on end of season WDC points.
Matt D – 13/14 or 14/15. The ability to swap was mentioned in the comments section for the article on the number 13, see: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/why-there-is-no-number-13-in-formula-1/#comment-7609
Not sure how accurate it is though.
Adriano, Joe,
there’s something odd with MS.
If he looks like he’s on a -relatively – good drive, as a one – time fan, I feel a sense of threat.
Wierder thing happened, I did watch post Austria 2002, but it as a disembodied experience. I hardly remember, for a few years, because i was very upset.
MS is still capable of annointing a race with some excitement. Even whilst all he does is mess with Ruebens’ head.
But, boy, does Michael need a Hail Mary year.
Laws Of Improbability say the chance alone is interesting.
Knowing all the tricks is not something you actually implement well, once the mind gets set, and Schumi reached that point maybe earlier than most, because he had the most input.
– j
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/blink-and-the-f1-entry-list-has-changed/ [...]