I read all over the Internet this morning that Tony Fernandes has “rejected” or “turned down” an offer of settlement from Group Lotus. The implication in this choice of words is that the boss of Team Lotus is somehow intransigent and unwilling to compromise, whereas if one knows a little more of the details it becomes very clear that the offer made to him by Group Lotus was derisory. If you spend $20,000 on a car and some spiv comes along and offers to pay you $500 for it, what are you going to do? You will say “No, thank you, go away you silly person.” If that silly person then wants to make a fuss they can perhaps claim to the newspapers that you rejected their offer, but as their offer was utterly unacceptable, it is perfectly understandable why it would not be accepted.
Sadly, this kind of reporting is so rampant these days that it is almost impossible to have a balanced idea of what is going on.
The various intertwined law suits between Group Lotus and Team Lotus are surrounded by smokescreens and diversionary arguments. If one fights through the murk there is really only one question in all of this: who should be allowed to use the Lotus name in Formula 1? At best, Lotus is a wildly diverse brand name, all of which seems to have been based originally on a flower, which floats on water and looks a little like the sun. This gave it mystical powers (apparently) and it is highly valued in certain religions. The white Lotus is the national flower of India and the pink has a similar position in Vietnam. Lotus seeds are widely used in Asian cooking. In the western world it is a name used by a celebrated software company, it is a brand of paper products sold by Georgia Pacific, it is the name of countless Chinese restaurants and so on.
When it comes to automobiles, the story begins in the unlikely setting of an old stable behind the Railway Hotel in Hornsey, a northern suburb of London. It was there in 1947 that Colin Chapman began tinkering with an old Austin 7 car, transforming it into a racing machine. He named the car a Lotus and there are several different theories as to why, including one that suggested that his girlfriend (later wife) Hazel, was nicknamed “Lotus blossom”, another that he worked on the car at night (he had a full time job as well) and that it had the same sleep-inducing effect as a Lotus flower. It does not really matter. What is important is that the first Lotus was a racing car. So were the next three cars that Chapman produced and raced in either trials or 750 Motor Club events. In 1952 Chapman set up the original Lotus Engineering Ltd and while the Lotus Mark 5 was never built, the Mark 6 was designed as a customer kit car. In 1954 he set up a separate racing company called Team Lotus, in order to make sure that the racing team did not drag down the car manufacturing business, and vice versa. They were designed to be separate entities.
Lotus sold more than 100 Mark 6 kits and this gave the company the money to create the Lotus Seven, a car that was very attractive to amateur racers as it was road legal, but could be used in races as well. It embodied the Lotus philosophy for high performance through low weight and simplicity. Thousands were sold in the years that followed and in 1973 Caterham Cars purchased the rights to manufacture the Lotus Seven – and continues to do so to this day.
Team Lotus in the interim built its first single-seater racing car in 1956. The Lotus 12 was designed for Formula 2 and was not particularly successful, but it was refined and in 1958 Team Lotus entered Grand Prix racing at the Monaco Grand Prix, with two cars driven by Graham Hill and Cliff Allison. The company structure was refined with the creation of Group Lotus in 1959 which featured Lotus Cars building road cars and Lotus Components Ltd building customer competition cars. Team Lotus continued to design, build and race cars in various different formulae. This structure remained unchanged until 1971 when Lotus Components Ltd briefly became Lotus Racing, although it subsequently closed down and most of the personnel moved on to establish an independent firm called Group Racing Developments (GRD), under the ownership of Griston Engineering.
The modern Lotus Engineering was established in 1980 to provide engineering consultancy services to car manufacturers. Team Lotus did use Lotus Engineering expertise for some of its technology, notably active suspension. It also enjoyed the reflected glory of Team Lotus’s achievements on the race tracks of the world.
In 1982 Lotus Cars was involved in the DeLorean Scandal, with the British Government paying $17.65 million for design consulting. This never reached the firm and after 20 years of investigation and litigation, it was found that Chapman, John DeLorean and Fred Bushell had divided it up between themselves. While this process dragged on Lotus first became a public company but then General Motors bought the firm. Team Lotus continued under Chapman Family ownership until 1990 when Peter Collins and Peter Wright, purchased the Team Lotus name and logo from the Chapman-owned Team Lotus International Ltd and ran an organisation called Team Lotus Ltd. This survived until 1994 when the team went into administration. David Hunt bought Team Lotus from the administrator just before the Japanese GP and a new organisation called Lotus Grand Prix Racing was established. This is believed to own the team’s machinery and equipment and the rights to run F1 cars with the Lotus name.
“We have a number of very promising opportunities which we are pursuing,” said Hunt at the time. “We are working dilligently to resolve a short-term cash-flow challenge in order to be able to achieve the long-term objectives of the company.”
His plans to ressurrect the team were destroyed at the last minute when a North American investor, believed to have been Tommy Hilfiger billionaire Lawrence Stroll withdrew his support. Unable to meet the running costs, Hunt decided to lay-off the staff in December 1994. In the weeks that followed there was talk of a number of possible buyers, including former Lotus directors Guy Edwards and Pete Hall, with other interest from Tom Walkinshaw and David Richards of Prodrive. At the end of January 1995 Pacific Grand Prix boss Keith Wiggins (who now runs the HVM IndyCar team) concluded a deal to call his team Pacific Team Lotus, which gave him the chance to market the Lotus name to sponsors. The Lotus badge and the green and yellow of Team Lotus appeared on the team’s cars that season.
At the end of the season, the team withdrew from Formula One and Wiggins went back to Formula 3000. Hunt retained the Team Lotus name and associated rights. It was not until 2009 that the name was really back in the spotlight when it was announced in June that Litespeed intended to enter Formula 1, using the Team Lotus name. Group Lotus reacted in a negative fashion. In the course of the summer Litespeed tried to put together a project, involving AirAsia boss Tony Fernandes and the Lotus name. In the end Fernandes liked the idea so much that he took over the team, agreed a deal with Group Lotus to use the Lotus Racing name for five years, in order to stop their complaining and then began to quietly negotiate with Hunt over the possibilities of buying Team Lotus. The Chapman Family supported Fernandes.
These are the facts. Perhaps we all do see Lotus in different ways. Some folk see Graham Hill at Monaco, many see Jim Clark, some remember Ronnie Peterson and Mario Andretti, some recall the days of Mansell and some of the younger generations remember the Senna and Piquet years, some will also be thinking of the era of Hakkinen, Herbert and Zanardi. The fact is that Lotus means different things to different people. Some race fans could not give a toss whether Group Lotus makes road cars or paper hankies. Equally there are people who are passionate about Lotus road cars and do not care about F1. When all is said and done, the question is not so much what people think, but what the paperwork says – although the image of Lotus will probably be part of the argument that comes up in court in March when the teams of lawyers get themselves into the legal ruck ahead.
The one question that the court ought to consider if it is looking for answers to this problem is why has this happened.
Why has it been impossible for Group Lotus to do the obvious thing and throw its money behind Team Lotus, rather than funding the Renault team? If it is logical for Group Lotus to control the Lotus brand in respect of all automotive activities, it should have been an obvious step for the Group to decide to get involved in Formula 1 as a sponsor of Team Lotus. All the problems would have been solved in a flash.
The only argument I have heard is that Group Lotus does not believe that Team Lotus is competitive enough for its elevated ambitions. Fine. That could be a fair point. But that does not fit in with the decision to fall into bed with Kevin Kalkhoven’s KV Technology team in IndyCar racing. One can understand the deal with Nicolas Todt’s GP2 team, because this is usually up there, fighting for victories, but KV has never been a frontrunner in the IndyCar Series and if Lotus had been following the philosophy it claims, it would have been far more logical to have put some money into Andretti Autosport and get badging with Marco Andretti (Lotus/Andretti geddit?) and media darling Danica Patrick. Or to do a deal with Roger Penske, who has been stretching his IndyCar sponsorship thin of late. Or perhaps even to help fund Chip Ganassi’s second team with two American drivers. All three of these options would have been better than giving KV some money and hoping that this will change the situation.
It does not add up, does it?













Yet another comprehensive history Joe.
I have a small (indeed trivial) recollection that is relevant to the Asian connection and the many meanings of “Lotus”. In the 90s I was involved in selling payphones to a new telecomms startup in Thailand. The contract stated the phones were to be painted “Lotus Yellow”. Our factory searched high and low for a paint with this title without success, several samples being rejected. Eventually I was taken down to the company parking garage and shown the owner’s pride and joy – a yellow Lotus sports car!
You may still be able to find yellow payphones on the streets of Bangkok.
Lotus to stay UK, and thats that. Renault Lotus is a great team. have enjoyed Senna in his BLACK UK CAR… HAHAHA
As discussed before, you rightly state that last sentence Joe.
A shame this is so hard to understand for some. Who would have thought that Lotus was such an emotional name to so many people at the start of 2009?
But it is possibly better having to teams, and a couple of bussinessmen argue over this than have the teams fighting Bernie or Todt or just among themselves about the rules, breakaways etc.
Fantastic article Joe. Your writing is simply the best there is regarding F1. I’m amazed how you have the time to research and then write such impressive articles, when do you sleep?
Many journalists in all fields could do well to learn from you! Your articles give me a greater insight into the world of F1. Great work!
Hi Joe.
I have just read some of the internet news articles on the ‘offer’ and quote TF from one of them:
“It was six million pounds for an out of court settlement. Of course I would like to end it but the proposal by Proton would have bankrupted the company. We could not accept it,” Fernandes told AFP.
I take this to mean that Group were asking Team for 6 million £’s. What the articles don’t say is what the offer was for. I could understand Group offering money to Team to drop the use of the ‘Team Lotus’ name but can’t understand what Group were offering Team for 6 million £’s. If it was the supposed ‘right’, or sanction to use Team Lotus where would that leave their sponsorship, (or badging exercise) with Renault? I’m confused or have I missed something!
Chris Neale,
No I think that he means that they were offering £6 million to go away. But when you have invested £80 (which is what the team says has been spent) it is not much, is it?
I don’t think anybody will call this year’s Renault a Lotus because the chassis is registered as a Renault with a few Lotus stickers plastered over it.
I think Fernandes has more of a claim to Team Lotus: the team is based in Norfolk and he’s bought the actual naming rights, from what I’ve read. I think it’s a bit of a stretch to link his team with the old Chapman operation, but it’s aspiring to revive the spirit at least. It’s only my opinion, but Fernandes seems like a sound bloke who means well and cares about Lotus: yes, he probably wants to make a few quid from the branding etc, but what’s wrong with that?
Personally I wish Benetton would buy back the Renault team, proper heritage there and a direct link…then let Team Lotus build itself up over in Norfolk. From testing it looks like they’ve not done a bad job going into the second year and might grab a few points…
No, it does not add up….as this is F1, someone somewhere is making a pot of cash off this debacle, and not just the lawyers.
Whatever the outcome, niether team is the true Lotus IMO. That ended long ago, and better to remember it for what it was and not some badge on a piece of team clothing….whoever says they “own” it.
Joe, how much time must you have spent researching and writing about this subject over the last days, weeks and months…..Aren’t you bored with it ?
Silverstone79,
I do not like what I am seeing so, no, I am not bored with it. It is important.
Hi Joe
I guess then that TF means that ‘going away’ and not racing under the Team Lotus name would bankrupt his company – I guess this would relate to sponsorship deals, reliant on the Team Lotus name, being withdrawn if his team were forced to become Air Asia GP or some such.
As an aside, there is a wider picture in play with Group Lotus’ sponsorship of ART in GP3 and GP2. Once Group Lotus has acquired Genii’s shares in the ‘Renault’ F1 team, it will just be a matter of time before Nicolas Todt and his buddies at ART start running the F1 team. ART didn’t pull out of its F1 application for lack of money – they were never short of it – there was a better alternative on the wall a few years down the road.
Joe, are Group Lotus and Cosworth doing any work together at present?
If they are then that might possibly explain the link with KV Technology, given that Kevin Kalkhoven is a part-owner of Cosworth.
Mark,
Yes, they are. Yes, it might, but still it does not mean that Group Lotus should associate itself with a team that never wins anything
Hi,
Nice artcile thank you, and no, not bored with it either, and keenly looking forward to a resolution.
Having read about this debacle from the moment it started – yes, I am an F1 fan-nerd – it’s interesting going over and over the ‘facts’. So yes, have read much of the above before, but grateful to read it again by someone else, mildly updated.
Thing is, the ‘facts’ remain consistent, and what you’ve written fits in with everything I’ve read so far. And so far, in my eyes, it seems an open and shut case for Fernandez, with Group Lotus looking like the big bully. Personally, if I’ve got all the facts, I hope Fernandez wins it! Group Lotus have had years to be far more dynamic and DO something, which they didn’t… And now they are acting like spoil sports.
However, it seems ‘technically’ Fernandez is legally in the better position. All the best ;-0)
Great article with a lot of relevance. From my comparatively superficial knowledge of the subject I have found the Group Lotus approach to be frighteningly unprofessional, dismissive and patronising to the now Team Lotus organisation.
It seems evident to me that the intention has been, for some time perhaps, to run in F1 regardless of the agreement reached with Tony Fernandes. The fact that he had a fairly strong claim to the rights necessitated an aggressive approach from Group Lotus in order to achieve their goal.
My view is contracts should be honoured and therefore Team Lotus has the naming rights. I’ll have a chuckle of Group Lotus have invested a lot in F1 and are prevented from racing under their own branding and naming.
Personally I hope Team Lotus do win their cases. They are the ones who’ve made the effort to revive the name of Lotus in Formula 1. Everyone acknowledged they did the legacy proud in their first season. Best of the new teams on a reasonably small budget, using innovation to move them forward, what i would class as the Chapman way.
Then you have got Group Lotus, the corportae bully trying to bully/cheat its way to the front of the F1 grid without putting any real effort in.
No matter what the outcome of the cases, I don’t think this kind of press is going to do Group Lotus or indeed Renault any good PR wise in the short-medium term. Indeed i’m surprised Renault are allowing Genii to drag their name/heritage through the mud with this debacle.
Those two bunches of self-deluded clowns can argue in court until the end of time about who is the true successor to Lotus, but it will never change the fact that neither of them are.
As for Proton, hoping to raise interest in its new Lotus road cars by sponsoring an F1 team with the Lotus name, consider this. Yes, you’re not going to do your brand any favours by perpetually running around at the back of the pack 4 seconds a lap slower than everyone else. But neither are you by conducting yourself in a manner so dishonourable that it puts crashgate in the shade. My advice would be to pull out of F1 now. You blew your chance of winning the respect and admiration of F1 fans before you even turned a wheel.
Hi Joe
Just like to say what a geat and acurate article.
Can anyone explain to me how Proton can afford to deliver on all the hype from the Group Lotus CEO, just from memory he is intending to do:
Sponsor and then buy out the Renult F1 team, Run a F2 team, Run an Indy team, run a Le Mans team, run a sports car team, start designing and building Lotus engines for all cars, launch four new road cars etc. etc. etc……..whatever he is taking I think they should give it out on the NHS !
Tony and the Team Lotus in Norfolk, have re energised not only Lotus F1, but the Colin Chapman spirit, Tony should sit tight and wait for Proton to go bust and then collect anything associated with Lotus , road cars etc, that he wants.
I note with interest that Group Lotus do not seem to have done quite the deal with the Renult F1 team that they would like us to believe and they hyped up……..will the Lotus sponsorship be on Renault F1 next year, will Lotus buy out Renault F1 team as they claim they will…..I very much doubt it…..your smoke and mirror statement says it all with regards to Group Lotus.
Apart from Group Lotus the other group that have shown their true colours in all of this are the Chapman family, bought off by the Proton £££££ with the promise of funds and a Lotus museum, who know have turned their back on Tony and Team Lotus, Colin must be turning in his grave.
Good luck to Tony and Team Lotus a team that is looking very likely to be in the points this year
Extremely well said Joe.
It really would have made sense for GL to have backed TL this season, what they are doing is leeching off another brand purely for commercial purposes.
Whereas TL have the right intentions with their outfit, they are using the name in respect without claiming rights to the historic Lotus, they were the first ones to claim the name anyway, so it really could have been a whole lot simpler if certain individuals had a common mindset to uphold, rather than benefit, from the name.
I personally think that the Team Lotus name with Renault engines coupled with the iconic black and gold livery would have been fitting, but sadly this can’t happen.
What are your thoughts Joe?
Offering TF £6m for his team doesn’t make a lot of sense, unless it’s heavily in debt, which is unlikely to be the case. How much did Tony pay David Hunt for the rights to use Team Lotus? It would seem more likely that this is what Group Lotus were looking to buy, but if that’s the case then it amounts to a de facto admission of TF’s legal ownership of the Team Lotus brand. If that’s the case then hopefully this thing can be settled out of court before all parties concerned (and F1 itself) get any more negative publicity
Joe,
Having thought about this for a long time and having initially supported Tony’s efforts, I now feel that it is shambolic that either party is trying to impinge on the original Team Lotus’ history when they both have practically no link to it.
Proton has been less than ideal in the way they went about things but so has Tony. I can understand that Group wants to run an F1 team to promote its brand, but to do that as a sponsor of various spec series such as GP2, GP3 and IndyCar is laughable. Also since 1Malaysia has no link to Team Lotus anyway, trying to badge engineer their history by buying a name is similarly sad. No true Lotus fans will ever support either team, in my opinion.
Also, FYI, Proton’s offer was not for Tony to go away – it was for him to change the name of his team. I hardly think that this would have bankrupted him because all he would have to do would be to change the name back to 1Malaysia Racing, paint the cars a different colour and apply to the F1 commission to change the name, as did Peter Sauber once BMW left. It is intellectually dishonest for him to say that he spent 80 million and the offer of 6 million would have bankrupted him as he would still have his team, his operating budget PLUS an additional 6 million pounds.
As for the sponsor effect, I hardly think the loss of CNN’s small logos on the front wing would have mattered. The rest are in-house companies anyways.
Colin Chapman must be rolling in his grave.
Art Van Delay,
I am afraid that you are making statements which are simply not correct. The offer to Fernandes was to change the name of the team, which in effect meant the same thing as telling him to go away. The Team Lotus partners (Fernandes included) were there because of the Lotus name, not because of 1Malaysia. That was simply an idea to make the Malaysian Prime Minister feel good – as the whole 1Malaysia concept was his idea. If they had wanted a team called 1Malaysia or Force Fernandes they would have set one up, wouldn’t they? A large investment was made, based on the agreements that were in place, to use the Lotus name. When those agreements were broken, his partners (rather than sponsors) would have been entitled to walk away because they were not going to be getting what they were promised. And the offer of £6 million was nowhere near enough to have saved the team in that circumstance.
It is my belief that Fernandes’s business plan was very simple. He was going to revive the Lotus F1 team and then, using the momentum created, was going to organise a reverse takeover of the whole Lotus Group, which has long been a financial mess and needs a proper entrepreneur in charge. This is not really any different to what he did 10 years ago with AirAsia, which was a lousy government-run airline which he turned into a great success. What then happened was that Dany Bahar turned up and sold someone in Kuala Lumpur on a wildly ambitious plan to revive Group Lotus and turn it into a rival of Ferrari. Whoever it was fell for this ridiculous plan and they cannot now back out of the deal without losing face. There was supposed to be private investment capital, involved but this never showed up and so Group Lotus/Proton is now borrowing from friendly Malaysian banks, who want to suck up to the government. In the end this project will almost definitely fail simply because it is unrealistic. I say this after talking to a variety of people high up in the automobile world who understand just what it takes. What happens after that is anyone’s guess but the politicians in Malaysia are going to be very uncomfortable as they try to explain why taxpayers’ money was spent on such a daft idea. I believe that Fernandes is hanging on to his original business plan because he still believes that his project will work and winning the legal battles with Group Lotus might even hasten the inevitable implosion at Group Lotus when someone with a brain faces up to the reality that they are not going to increase sales from 2,700 to 8,000 and that they are not going to be taking on Ferrari head-to-head. At that point the government will be happy to have Fernandes there to take the hot potato out of their hands…
Dredging up Delorean scandal does not really add to the debate (other than devaluing group/team lotus engineering / cars / racing).
Group tactics may be questionable, but “flicking the bird” at the family is a bit close to taking sides
Simon Bates,
You need to understand the history, to understand what is going on. The DeLorean story is a vital part of the story. Sorry if you don’t like that, but it is a reality. Without DeLorean there is no reason to think that Lotus would have been sold. Also read the “What?” section to understand what a blog is…
The way I read the £6 million offer is that it’s what Group Lotus offered TF to stop using the Team Lotus name. As you rightly said, when you’ve invested £80 miliion you’re not going to throw it away for £6 million. I think I read somewhere that if TF changed the name from Team Lotus, i.e. renaming the chassis, he’d lose the prize money for 10th place, about USD40 million. I think this is what he means about the company going bankrupt, as this years budget is obviously set with this prize money included.
Is that about right Joe? or have I misunderstood…
‘agreed a deal with Group Lotus to use the Lotus Racing name for five years, in order to stop their complaining ‘
Not sure this represents things in an unbiased way?
‘Stop their complaining’.
ian,
It is what it is. It is my reading of the situation and it is a blog so it is allowed to be an opinion (see the What? section)
Great article. The behavior of Mr Bahar is quite bizarre all things considered and given that he is just an employee of Group Lotus, not an owner or shareholder, hard to fathom. As you ask, why would he not have simply thrown Group’s support totally behind Tony Fernandes and capitalized on the new teams clear acceptance and popularity in F1 – and garnished for Group all that free publicity and goodwill? All that he has done is degrade the Lotus company name further and brought it once again into disreputable controversy. The saying goes that there is no such thing as bad publicity but I think this is the exception that proves the rule. Hopefully Tony Fernandes will win out in the end.
Many thanks, Joe for yet another fine piece. You are absolutely right, none of it adds up.To me, the affair smacks rather of Dany Bahar running out of control. Were he spending hiw own money, then this sad state of affairs likely would never have arisen
Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on how one chooses to look at it, I am old enough to remember happening most of which you have written about, for my formative years were spent around ‘specials’ and ‘specials’ building of the period. However, that does in no way detract from your excellent article. Apart from anything else, it is good to see the Lotus brand history put so clearly and concisely.
Whilst I am thoroughly sick of the entire Group vs. Team affair, it will never bore me, for it continues to intrigue. Also, I am greatly saddened to see the Lotus name sullied so, and wish to see and end to the matter. Whether intentionally or otherwise, Bahar has and continues to cause Group much embarasssment. I have no idea how much longer Proton will continue to support his antics- at a guess, it will be until Group loses the court case, or when Proton realises funds are not limitless, and can no longer afford to fund Bahar’s ego driven antics.
Did I miss something, Tony F has a deal to use the Lotus name (car manufacturer) they want to bring it to an end early so that they can hook up with Renault to brand their own enterprise and reap the additional sales created by brand identification with F1.
So for the £6M lotus would get out of the contract that binds them to Tony F – nothing more.
Pretty cheap really the brand consultants would probably charge that to do a feasibility study on how to brand an F1 team
If only Team Lotus are allowed to use the name in F1, why did Fernandes seek a licence from Group in 2010? You say it was to ‘keep them happy’, but in the hard legal and commercial world of F1 that doesn’t quite make sense. In effect, Fernandes’ conceded Group’s right to use the name Lotus in F1, and, arguably, has been on the back foot ever since.
If the separation of Lotus road cars and Lotus racing cars was so important, Fernandes should have bought ‘Team’ from Hunt on day one. And all you other purists should have been in uproar that ‘Team’ wasn’t on the grid in 2010. I don’t remember that you were…
I can understand Group’s position perfectly. They were concerned that Fernandes was using the Lotus name in F1 as a cunning route to controlling Group. It would make perfect sense to not allow that, commercially.
And as for the argument that Group somehow ‘owes’ Fernandes everything that he has invested in his team, that doesn’t add up either. Group didn’t ask him to spend lavishly on a Formula One team. A judge would say they don’t owe him anything.
Ben G,
Fernandes was looking for solutions. He found one. He agreed a FIVE YEAR licence with Group and then agreed to discuss things with Hunt. Group broke the agreement. I believe he would have gone to Hunt whether the deal was broken or not. It was simply the next step in the plan to clear up problems and create value. I did not suggest that Group owes Fernandes anything – except to honour the agreement. In the hard commercial world there are laws to stop people behaving like this. End of story.
It was interesting hearing and reading the reports regarding Kubica’s accident that he was referred to as “Renault driver Robert Kubica”, particularly on the tv news bulletins. If Team Lotus do settle sometime and rename we may find ourselves referring to 0 cars as being Lotus’. Absolutely bonkers!
I think your analysis of TF’s original plan is spot-on Joe, and what we’re seeing is a fight for control of Lotus Cars rather than Lotus F1.
Having said that, Tony Fernandes said some time ago that it wasn’t a problem for him to change the team name to be Air Asia F1 or whatever, but that might just have been PR speak.
Joe
Your suggested outcome of this story has to be the only way for the simple reason that Mr Bahar is obviously not the great strategist that would be required to make a dint in these plans… anyone that can plan strategy would not have led his company down the path to the UK courts the way Dany has.
He pushed Mr Fernandez into a corner that meant his only option was to face the judge… if he could not see that coming what chance has he got when the going really gets tough trying to take on Ferrari and Porche at their own game.
Always the last site I turn to on my hour of F1 reading because I know the depth of your articles will require time and effort.
Thanks.
Great Article Joe and good to see you commenting on peoples ridiculous interpretations of the facts.
Group Lotus For the Win, on the track and then on the road, I cant wait for the day Tony starts pushing out the road cars, I’m sure your right and thats the plan!
You just gained a paying subscriber!
Great article Joe.
Why would you pay someone £6M to stop infringing your trademarks?
If Proton had any case they would be able to apply it as easily as Ford against Ferrari.
Hi Joe,
just sort of pointing out how easily it is done.
Your answer to ‘Art Van Delay’ is the best explanation I have read anywhere and makes me considerably more sympathetic to Tony Fernandes than I was.
@Graeme
I understand that Fernandes bought the “Team Lotus” naming rights for £6m…which would explain why Group Lotus are now offering this sum as a settlement.
However they are failing to take into account the lost sponsorship for TL, also TL won’t recieve their prize money and free travel from Bernie Ecclestone for finishing in the top 10 teams last year (as far as I can gather), so the true cost to Fernandes in losing the TL naming rights could potentially be £30-50m at the very least I would’ve thought.
TL were there first, and should be allowed to continue. Either that or Group Lotus should pay Fernandes the correct “settlement” figure…I reckon £35m would do it.
History is history, you can’t change it.
Based on the facts, Group Lotus will implode. They have so much sponsorship money flying in all directions with such lofty goals which can’t possibly be met.
Fascinating and insightful, as always. Though, if I’m honest, I’m still a little in the dark. Is a name really worth so much?
On the basis that neither of the teams is ‘really’ Lotus – and the re-badged Renault even less so, then why not take the offered £6,000,000 and change the team’s name. You’d still have an F1 team and a HUGE amount of publicity and public support….
AND! I’ve just been told I’m being bought a subscription to Grand Prix Plus!
Nick DC,
The name is worth what someone makes of it. The fact that it has been wasted for a decade by people with no clue what to do with it means it has little value, but then look at Ferrari and you see something of the potential. To give Dany Bahar his due, he sold the Proton people a vision of what might be. That’s great. I just don’t believe that he can possibly deliver. I think Fernandes is a much more proven businessman and has much better ideas about what will work and will not work.
I think there is little money involved in the KV Racing tie-up. That’s why they employ ride-buyers like Sato and Viso.
Zoltan,
And this makes who want to buy Lotus cars?
Great article as ever Joe, but ‘offering £6 million to go away’ doesn’t make sense to me. I would take you to mean that Proton was offering Fernandes £6m to change the name of his F1 team to something that didn’t include the word Lotus. And Fernandes might see this bankrupting the team because his sponsors have bought into the magic of the Team Lotus brand and could walk away if it was called Random Name F1.
In my limited experience of such matters, once one side in a legal dispute starts offering money it’s a clear sign that, whatever bombastic claims they may be making in public, the private advice that they are getting from their lawyers is that their legal case is weak. And your article amply demonstrates why that might be so here.
Having said all that, and recognising that Proton is generally regarded as the bad guy in all this, it does nevertheless seem to me that as the owners of the Lotus car company and now as the owners of the Enstone F1 operation that has four world titles to its name, Proton is the best placed to add further glory to the name of Team Lotus in the future. I’m sure that’s what ultimately will happen and it’s just a matter of their agreeing a (rather higher) price with Mr Fernandes.
Hi joe,
what I understand from the american scene is that Kevin Kalkhoven and his ownership of Cosworth and the KV (Kalkhoven Vasser) team makes the Lotus partnership make sense.
Lotus has entered as an engine supplier for 2012 and it is asumed that it will be with engines made by Cosworth.
Also it is believed that this Lotus branding deal does not involve too much money whereas teams like Andretti Autosport would be looking at multi milion dollars for a full season deal. (Sato last year came with money from Honda for sure) and this year it is rumoured to be employing Dan Wheldon (indy 2005 winner) as part of the Lotus deal. Y
ou can state the KV team hasnt performed as well as Andretti Autosport but thats more because of the caliber of drivers (fast & crash) rather than the team which was the best of the new teams when it employed propper drivers Will Power and Oriol Servia in 2008.
DennisF1,
I do not doubt what you are saying and I am sure it is correct, but it does not fit with the Group Lotus philosophy of buying instant success. It is not much good building up a team over three years if you are not there at the end of it. So why not do the same in F1 with Team Lotus.
The collected writings, musings and postings of the motor sport world will not matter much to a High Court judge. I would very much like to hear from a British solicitor or barrister with regard to the important legal issues that are being discussed. Those opinions – i.e., what takes place in court – are all that matter.
Scott Bloom,
You would be surprised how many times articles from motor racing magazines and websites are quoted in court. However, in principle, I agree with you.
BTW, Stroll’s son is now in the Ferrari Drivers Academy.
This is a re-release, where did it come from Joe?
We already heard from Tony about the offer, which he said would bankrupt the team to accept, either last week or the week before. Obviously it was only made ludicrously low so that Bahar could tell the court that he tried, but it was rejected.
Thanks to everyone for their contributions. Lets face it, the real F1 fans (i.e. all of use reading this) deep down love the political and legal nonsense. Its what the close season is for.
Hmm if Group lotus was so concerned about their brand name they had ample time to buy the team lotus rights after 1994. Why throw money at renault possibly many millions of pounds, why not buy the rights, it would have been cheaper. Tony fernandes did the right thing for f1, sorry it seems clear cut to me tony has the contract and proton was left with an egg on their face, a very expensive egg in the shape of danny bahr.
Oh i forgot proton better sack danny bahr for dragging proton into this costley mess….im only saying this so that proton can get some credibility back in to their brand.
As a long term Lotus owner I’m surprised with myself for not siding with Group. But the way Bahar, Proton and Clive (Group et al) are going about things betrays their lack of true passion for “racing”. They’re are missing the point as far as I’m concerned. I’m the sort of racing fan that wants to back the team that succeeds by honest engineering development….and enjoy the journey.
Tonys’ Team are doing just that. I think Group et al would have gained universal support from racing fans by materially backing the long term racing development of Team and I think the buying public would appreciate an honest hard working approach to re-establishing Lotus as a winning brand.
As it stands it could be said that both the Renault F1 and Team Lotus F1 cars are “fakes” in terms of “Chapman-era” Lotus heritage, so I’ve decided to join-in the spirit of the game and fit a black period Lotus roundel to the nose of my 70′s competition Clan (which, btw runs a “fake” Chapman-era Coventry Climax engine). At least I can claim the Clan was developed by Lotus employees during the Chapman era and I believe, for a while, Colin considered the possibility of adopting the idea as a Seven replacement.
Of course it does not add up if you not mention some of behind the scene moves of Tony and the Group.
As long term project it is belived that Fernandes wanted to take the whole Lotus Group over (probably for the best). The Group employed the ‘genius’ Dany Bahar with his delirious plans. He wants to stop Fernandes as fast as possible of course and save the candy for himself.
I gues Tony sees some chance to continiue his strategy otherwise he would’ve rename his project to AirAsia already.
Tony’s moves do not aad up either if you don’t realize what is the long term gole.
Even the argument of sponsoring renault holds little water really. Because people won’t really consider it a lotus team for a number of seasons.
Whereas starting the new team from scratch and hitting a podium next season would give them stacks more coverage.
Its the same as when BMW was with williams, even tho they footed the bill and designed the engines it was still considered williams. Lotus are doing nothing more than paying for a sticker.
Rant over :p
em Arek the long term gole seems to me lets go racing with team lotus and get the best advertising for air asia global with the best advertising in the buisness with bernie and co. How could it fail when youve got the bulldog on your side who designed his cars…
I am amazed at how Proton still tolerate Bahar’s antics: he has put Group Lotus in a trajectory leading to implosion for all to see with his pigs-will-fly plans; his legal position is beyond tenuous; public relations for both Proton and Group Lotus over his fight with Fernandes is an unfolding disaster.
When will Proton bigwigs open their eyes and decide enough is enough? It is one thing to suddenly decide to go F1 racing and quite another to drag everything down around you in the cack-handed way of going about it. A guy running a peanut stand will do a better job than Bahar.
I hope Joe’s predictions materialise soon: Tony Fernandes ends up controlling Group Lotus to clean out Bahar’s mess.
I wish Fernandes and his Team Lotus all the success. I am a big Lotus cars fan but my heart is with him and his plucky F1 squad.
Joe,
Thank you for the analysis, I have been reading as much as I can about this as it progresses. I believe on the principle that you can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people….
In this scenario I think Fernandes has the ring of truth, and Bahar the voice of a marketeer.
I understand that
1) 10th place in the constructors championship won rights for this season and further rights down stream if the performance continues. These have a financial value.
2) If you change the name of the chassis you lose those rights which have been accrued unless every Concorde team agrees to the change which is why the Enstone team is still called Renault.(as currently this could be blocked by Fernandes).
3) I would expect the £6 million would be to change the name of the Lotus chassis to AirTune? and to agree to the change of Renault chassis name to Lotus.
So although the immediate loss to Team Lotus could be valued in relation to the F1 support this year (perhaps £6 million?) Fernandes would be out of pocket also in relation to any external (to Tune and Air Asia etc.) sponsorship and the fact they would be a year behind in a plan to get future benefits. So, as many people have said, it just isn’t enough money. Then you add in the fact that Fernandes does seem to enjoy the F1 game and the car seems to be at very least on track for 10th again this year and why would you take the cash.
Joe, do you have any idea how much the 10th place “rights” are worth and what they consist of?
Richtea08
The 10th place is worth quite a lot. $10m. However last year was odd because 11th and 12th were also worth $10m. However, 10th is an advantage because finished in top 10 in two out of three years makes a difference
Sorry to be a pedant toward MIKE LEA (seventh comment posted) but when you say “I wish Benetton would buy back the Renault team, proper heritage there and a direct link…” you’re missing the fact that Benneton bought the Toleman team to gain their entry to F1.
Which leads me to the point that I’d like to make. I don’t care who wins this argument or what their teams end up being called (perhaps I favour Team Lotus purely because Group broke their five year agreement) but I don’t want two teams named ‘Lotus’ on the grid.
I remember Lotus in 1990s when they hardly represented the spirit of the late Colin Chapman back then either. Lotus was just a name. In the same vein does anyone really think that McLaren have much to do with New Zealander Bruce anymore? Project 4, under Ron Dennis and Mansour Ojjeh, bought a team in order to go racing.
Hi Joe,
Great article as always. Thanks.
What puzzle me still is that why TF don’t buy Team Lotus right from David Hunt at the start instead of license Lotus name from Proton.
Clearly what TF is doing right now to fight in court with GL over the name David could have done the same last year when TF ran as Lotus racing? I bet David didn’t due to hefty legal fees.
So what so great about TF at the end of the day? Is that not dirty tactics as much as GL is currently doing?
As TF puts it, David Hunt is the most honourable man in this Lotus saga!
Like many people I wasn’t that fussed about Fernandes bringing back the Lotus name in F1, if I am honest I was pretty dismissive of them and their choice in drivers. My early money being on Virgin to win that category.
But over the season Lotus (and in particular Hekki, Tony and Mike) won me over, to me they did evoke those memories I have from being a kid as seeing the Lotus brand as the underdog punching well above its weight. It seemed to me to become a living embodiment of the legend that is Lotus.
On a purely emotional level Fernandes and Co had that fight won before any of this mess flared up and I suspect that Chapman is spinning in his grave…. although given his dealings in the Delorian affair maybe he will be rubbing his hands in glee at the chaos and carnage ‘Group’ Lotus have created…. but as a fan I will be supporting the Green and Gold, and sincerely hope they manage to show up the Black and Gold Renault at least once this season (and hopefully many more than once).
I gather that Danny Bahar (not content with his current portfolio of projects) is in talks with Mr A.K. Vishwanath to produce the B’Lorean.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110212/tod-indian-flying-car-that-looks-back-to-451ab4f.html
Not sure if it will be a Lotus or a Proton.
Pigs might …
Brian.
Hi, Joe
I thought that Caterham Cars bought the rights to make the “Seven” in the shape of the Lotus Seven, but they most specifically did not have the right to call it a Lotus. I appreciate this is pinickity, but it shows the Chapmans’ attention to detail and commercial awareness.
This, I believe, reinforces the argument that “Team Lotus” was sold with the ability to stand in it’s own commercial and independant right.
Can’t help though to be intrigued as to why the Chapman family initially support TF’s team and then withdrew that support.
I sincerely hope that TF wins through on this…. and that they go on to do justice to the name, badge and supporters.
Knutty boy,
You know what I mean. Why bother to make such a picky point?
Joe,
I don’t understand that you don’t understand.
You just explained that it’s obvious that Fernandez was trying to take over Group Lotus. And then you complain that Group Lotus did not back the 1Malaysia F1 outfit.
Also, and that’s why you are probably not a business man, the most valuable asset you have in your company is the brand name, lesson nr 1 is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let somebody else be in controll of you brand “Logo”.
Anyway, it seems that 1Malaysia has only the rights to use the Team Lotus name in F1. I’m not sure about the logo though. Also any other form of merchandise would be forbidden.
Joe Pancake,
You don’t understand. Full stop. I don’t remember complaining that Group Lotus did not back the 1Malaysia F1 outfit. I said it makes no sense that Group Lotus did not back Team Lotus. There is a huge difference which, as a businessman with an eye for a brand, you ought to have spotted. The clue is in the name…
And your summing up of the situation begs another question: If “the most valuable asset you have in your company is the brand name”, who is the idiot at Group Lotus who sold a licence to Fernandes for F1 for five years?
Excellent detailed explanation of the situation, Joe. Your response to “Art” was fascinating. I’ve been suspicious of Bahar’s “new Lotus” all along, and your comments suggust my gut feeling is right: it doesn’t add up.
Good point about it just being the name of a flower, when all’s said and done, too. If I were TF, I’d be moving heaven and earth to get IBM, which cuurently owns Lotus Software, on board as a sponsor. That would put a spanner in Bahar’s works. (Back in the real world, of course, I suppose the uncertainty would scare them off though. From what little I know of the man, I’d be surprised if he hadn’t thought of it himself.)
Add my name to the “not bored” list, too. As you say, this is important.
Joe – if the original Lotus licence was only for 5 years, what was TF intending to do when this expired? Or am I getting my Lotii confused.
Adrian Jr,
I think that when Fernandes did that deal he reckoned that in five years Group Lotus would not be any stronger than it is now (and would probably be weaker) and that his racing exploits with Lotus would have given him the clout in Malaysia to have the government sell him Group Lotus to get rid of it, while being able to dress that up as a step forward rather than the dismal failure that it is. Instead Dany Bahar’s airy-fairy dreams of glory and Ferrariness popped up and someone fell for it and they are now stuck borrowing boatloads of money (guaranteed by the government) because they cannot be seen to have cocked up.
There may be other agendas involved in all of this, however, as in the pragmatism of the political world one can imagine that the current generation of politicians might be doing this in order to keep the influential ex-PM Mahathir Mohamad happy in his retirement years. They know that ultimately the only sensible thing is to get Proton and Lotus off the government books, but they are content to let Mahathir oversee the automobile activities for the time being. He is now 85 years old and if Group Lotus messes up then his power will weaken – which is probably what they would like to see… One must remember that only a couple of years ago Mahathir still had the clout to engineer the removal of his successor Abdullah Badawi, and support a new candidate Najib Razak. So, Group Lotus may simply be a political poisoned chalice… and Bahar may simply be “the pilot” on the back of an unmanned rocket, heading vertically downwards!
Joe
I find all this rather perplexing. Aside from some internal Malaysian politicking I fail to see the relevance of the Lotus name – other than monies paid to Group Lotus for the naming rights – to Tony Fernandes. I think the amount of press devoted to this episode is inversely proportional to the importance and competitiveness of TF’s team, no matter how principled and likeable a man he may be. Lotus to me will always be Jimmy Clark in a Lotus 25 or 49, Rindt and Fittipaldi in the 72 trailed by Mario and Ronnie in the Lotus 79 not any of the current Air Asia or Toleman/ Benetton/ Renault/ Genii/ Lotus iterations.
Joe
The pickyness is in the difference when The Chapmans (Colin or Family) specifically traded the name Lotus.
(I understand that..) They did with Team Lotus and did not with the Seven. This tells me that they were aware of the commercial values of the brand and acted/profitted accordingly.
I am thus concuring with you that “Team Lotus” was legitimally and specifically traded via David Hunt et al, to TF.
My view is that Group Lotus’ F1 effort is being led by a businessman who has no understanding or passion for motorsport let alone its history. Sure ‘win on Sunday and sell on Monday’ is the old adage of car manufacturers in motor racing but to be truly successful there has to be passion running through the very veins of the company. Look at Toyota, they spent god knows how much money on their assault but it was completely fruitless because the businessmen at the top made crucial decisions on how the team would be run when they had no understanding of the sport (ironic that Gasgoyne was a victim of that one too).
Group Lotus makes the road cars so they ARE Lotus. Team Lotus has the spirit and the passion for Lotus but at the end of the day if they are not involved with Group Lotus then they are just an F1 team with the word Lotus in their title.
My view is that they should have stuck together and then it would have worked out a treat but there are too many ego’s at Group Lotus for a kiss and make up. What Group Lotus should do is sack Mr Bahar and his cronies for bringing the company into disrepute and tie up again with TF operation. Not so easy after signing a contract to badge the Renaults but when there’s a will there’s a way. Its going to cost them a lot more image wise in to long run and may in fact damage car sales.
Again, unlikely due to ego’s and a sad fact that is.
Also, the whole GP2/3, indycar thing is another example of Mr Bahar’s lack of understanding of motorsport. I mean, Lotus always MANUFACTURED race cars not just buy and badge them, not one make formula at least!
Meanwhile in Malaysia… Proton and Malaysian government people will be working hard developing face saving strategies for when the garage comes crashing down on their heads. Danny Bahar will not be present at the meetings. Tony Fernandes won’t be either, yet. Ultimately, he’ll take over both Lotuses, or just keep the one he’s got. Everyone says he is a pragmatist with vision.
Fantastic piece, Joe.
So do us a favour. Assume you now have all the facts. Pretend for a moment that you are the sole judge presiding.
And the verdict is…?
David B
I am not a High Court judge, but the result that I think would be fair is as follows: Tony Fernandes has acquired the rights to use Team Lotus and its branding and so he should have the right to use the Team Lotus name in F1, with cars called Lotuses. Group Lotus broke its five-year “Lotus Racing” licence deal with 1Malaysia Racing Ltd on a technicality. The real motive behind the move was to make Dany Bahar a player in Formula 1. If the intention had been otherwise Group Lotus would have done a deal to sponsor Lotus Racing. As it is currently impossible to unite the two brands, there should in future be a clear differentiation between the two entities. Group Lotus will, in any case, benefit from the success of Team Lotus on the race track, without any input at all, and can dismiss any failure as not its responsibility. There is, therefore, no need for a Renault sponsorship deal. Group can use all other forms of motorsport to promote its car sales, but cannot use the Team Lotus name or its F1 history. Fernandes should have no right to use any Lotus road car imagery. Team Lotus should be allowed to have its own branding and merchandising, but must use the word Team, and cannot build road cars under that brand name. The right to licence the Team Lotus name should be handed over to Fernandes. If in the future one party takes over the other then Group Lotus and Team Lotus could be integrated into one body – which is the ultimate logical solution.
One thing I don’t understand.
You say TF quiet negotiated with Hunt, but don’t say if that was concluded. If TF has the rights form Hunt, then why is TF bothered by what Group Lotus think if he has bought the rights to Team Lotus from Hunt? Did the Hunt deal never conclude or is there another problem there?
ACr,
He has concluded a deal with D Hunt. He owns the rights to Team Lotus. He does not care about Group Lotus beyond the fact that it is challenging his rights, and he is countersuing them for bad behaviour, with regard to the Lotus Racing licence.
Joe,
I think we’re going round and round with this story. The history of F1 is that teams change names, owners, sponsors, etc, all the time. We didn’t have a problem with Honda becoming Merc in little more than 1 season. We didn’t have a problem with Benetton/Renault/Playlife/Renault, the BMW team. Jaguar had no history in F1 when they took over Stewart. Which bit was actually Jaguar? My point is that the history or its continuity is not that important.
The history of F1 is also full of colourful characters such as young Dany. It would have been interesting to see if Tony’s Lotus team had won GPs whether young Dany would have beaten a path to Tony’s door with his cheque book? or perhaps the chquebook isn’t that fat. Instead it brought up the rear with a couple of Virgins and the HRTs. Oh, that doesn’t sound too good! While I too have some sympathy for Tony, Kubica in his Lotus Renault was a real reason for hope.
Money will determine the winner and the court will determine who has to pays and how much. Joe, what is Tony’s team (minus Lotus name) worth. Are there any comparisons from the past?
As an exercise in timewasting Tony could perhaps buy the rights to another name? Brabham, Cooper, Tyrrell, or a 2nd tier manufacturer who fancies the exposure, Kia, Hynudai, MG, who knows?
Lucas St Clan,
I think you have missed the point completely. Yes, the F1 world goes round and round and money usually talks. In this world history only has a value if it can be sold, but that is the point. This whole dispute is about who owns the history of Lotus. Dany & his crowd can have the Elite, the Eclat, the Eclair, the E-by-gum and all the rest of them. But Tony should have the right to the 25, the 49, the 72, the 79 etc etc.
Has anyone heard what the reason for Group withdrawing their 5 year deal with Team after only 1 year.
Is Team in line for a financial payout or was there some sort of performance clause that Team didnt achieve?
Evan,
The claim is something to do with teeshirt sales, but it looks like they were looking for an excuse to break the deal.
Joe Pannekoek mentions that selling of merchandise is forbidden.
Is there some truth in this because I’ve been looking for the new Team Lotus merchandise and can’t find any? Seems to be one or two bits of last years’ Lotus Racing stuff available and that’s all.
BTW Classic Team Lotus hastily withdrew some merchandise earlier this year as someone had made a massive gaff by creating garments claiming Lotus had World Champ status in 1967…which it didn’t. lol.
face it Lotus as a real team ended years ago – you can call a team what you like but if ain’t the original team it isn’t the original team
andy,
I feel that your argument is not really valid. “If ain’t the original team it isn’t the original team” would suggest that you would view McLaren as not being a real team. The original McLaren disappeared in 1980. Things develop and one has to judge a team on its merits at a given time, not simply declare something to be wrong because it is not what it used to be.
@ Joe,
Yes I do agree that it was not wise to Licence the Lotus racing name to 1Malaysia. Only there is a difference in a licence deal and selling the name. Although it is not realistic for a team to take a 5 year licence deal, build a brand and after the 5 years giving up on it and changing the name again to 1Malaysia.
But is your question on why Group Lotus did not back the 1Malaysia team answered now?
Then on your last post, I’m sorry but 1Malaysia can’t have any merchandise or any other activity with the Lotus name in it besides selling advertising in F1. Even their cars should be called a Team Lotus. Not a Lotus.
Also Group Lotus can use all pre 1995 Team Lotus licencing as it was then licenced to Lotus Cars. The other way around 1Malaysia can’t use any of the Group Lotus items and even the Logo.
Joe Pancake,
The fact is that Group sold the licence whether it was wise or not.
There is nothing wrong with Team Lotus running a racing car called a Lotus. It should not have to be a “Team Lotus”, any more than a road car should be called a “Group Lotus”.
Why can Group Lotus use pre-1995 stuff? It belonged to Team Lotus, not to Group Lotus. Group was not the parent of Team. They were, at best, sister companies.
Thanks for the reply Joe. However, I am still confused.
“He has concluded a deal with D Hunt. He owns the rights to Team Lotus.”
OK, so TF is Team Lotus, nothing Group can do can change that, right? Unless they are challenging Hunts original ownership.
” He does not care about Group Lotus beyond the fact that it is challenging his rights,”
They are challenging deal TF did with Group Lotus, yes? Nothing to do with his ownership of Team Lotus, as Hunt owned them?
” and he is countersuing them for bad behaviour, with regard to the Lotus Racing licence.”
So, again, nothing to do with Team Lotus rights. He wants the Lotus Racing name and some cash? He could just defend if he only wanted the name, countersuing would be for money.
OK, I’m Lost. Why can’t TF say, fine Group, end our deal, I’m still Team Lotus. You call yourselves what ever you like but not Team Lotus as I bought that name from Hunt , and I’m off racing as Team Lotus?
So, from what I can tell from this, TF will race and always could race as Team Lotus and this stuff with Group is mostly about using another name, Lotus Racing, and presumably getting a few quid out of Group if he cant?
Based on this, I see no need for TF to be bothered. He has Team Lotus, that is the proper “racing” name, and if he loses in court to Group, then he still remains Team Lotus, and keeps this £10m and future payments form Bernie.
Nothing changes. Still two Lotus named teams. TF keeps his income form F1.
And lastly, do Group think they have some sort of claim on the Team Lotus name that Hunt owned and sold or licensed?
See, I cant help wondering if there is a problem with the Hunt deal, like it was for a limited time and TF will lose that sooner or later, and there for lose out money wise with a team name change. If the Hunt deal was a licence for two years, he could refuse to renew it and sell it to Group.
Is that the real problem? Because, from where I sit, none of what I have read so far makes any sense from either side.
ACr,
It is fairly clear if you read the previous posts. I don’t have time to go over it all again and again.
Hi
I’m not sure that this really matters as long as Group leaves Team in a position to move ahead with their programme unharmed as Tony F really contributes to F1.
Tony is clearly passionate about F1 and having sponsored Williams and started a team off his own back he put his money where his passion is. He has taken the Lotus brand back into F1 and with good people, a Renault engine, RB gearbox and electricals he should have solid mid table results next season. Once their aero programme is in place they should be able to prove Dany wrong and put themselves on the podium. I recall (and have not checked) a stat that Mike Gascoyne has put every team he has worked with on the podium in 2 season.
Dany, Eric and the Enstone boys have all earned their place at the table but they had a perfectly good name and regardless of the legal positioning we know TF had Lotus first. If Group wanted to use it they should have planned their contracts better to start with or should now pay TF a premium for the use of the name to represent the efforts he has put into growing it and compensate for the future loss.
If I was Group looking to make a respectful settlement I would make an offer of around £47m. £2 million is the approx. tangible cost to rebrand cars, team kit, stationary, trucks, premises etc. £20m to represent the opportunity cost of losing the Lotus brand as a tool to attract sponsors. £15m to deal with existing sponsors unhappy with the change and £10m to make it worth TF’s while to accept it.
Coffeegrind,
I fear that Group Lotus would go out of business if it had to pay £47 million to Team Lotus.
Either that, or the bankers would say “Tidak ada, pergi, melompat di sungai”
The whole affair is beyond belief.
Joe’s theory of the political move to weaken the former Prime Minister may be the root cause of this mess, but to me it sounds a little to costly for the Malay government. What this article and its responses highlight is that Dany Boys plans on F1 sponsorship dont add up, making it more apparent that he is very afriad of Tony Fernandes and his partners as a threat to his position. Dany has set himself upon a course to take on one of the worlds best businessmen and his partners, thus entering a world with the big boys.
It seems to me that Dany couldnt believe his luck when the Proton swallowed his plans and led him to think how good he is and boosted his ego to take on allcomers. This gave him belief that Fernandes could be crushed by political pressure and bullying, wrong move. The biggest threat to Dany Bahar is his own elevated sense that he is one of the big boys now, but to be big boy you have to play with your own cash.
From the Lotus brand point of view Fernandes and partners have done little wrong and have my support. However, if the deal with Group had stayed good and Fernandes purchased Team Lotus then tried to get out of Group deal? Many people think that was always the idea, I would like to think it was not. Rather that Fernandes would taken over Group from the inside by natural progression and the Malay government wanting rid of it.
Having met Tony, one can only describe it as a pleasure, and witnessed the attitude over the season of the the Team I wish them well. If anyone deserves to take the Team Lotus legacy forward its these boys, they truly believe in it.
Two different companies involved. 1 makes cars and 1 is name of racing group. Lotus name is irrelevant. Historically both existed for 2 completely different purposes.
This gets settled out of court most likely. Group has already opened the settlement door to exit gracefully. They have no standing as racing and building cars are 2 entirely separate lines of work.
The out of court settlement will be Group not pursuing this useless legal angle any further and Team Lotus goes racing anyway. Group Lotus has very little legal standing at all. A good law firm never turns down Corporate cash work though!
There are no patent or trademark issues at all. One is “team’ one is ‘group’ and do different things. This should never be heard in a court to begin with. Sad.
@ Joe,
Yes it should be called a Team Lotus. Vehicles which bare the Lotus name or logo are for the past 16 years only used by Lotus Cars. It’s to long ago for the licence holder of the Team Lotus name to build vehicles with a Lotus name or use the ACBC logo.
Thats the problem for 1Malaysia, they bought a name which can only be used in F1. Nothing else. The rights to the ACBC logo, naming a car a Lotus, selling Clothing with a Lotus logo and/or name, all belongs to Group Lotus.
I even think all pre 1995 stuf is not owned by 1Malaysia, it’s most likely owned by Classic Team Lotus. If not then Mr. Hunt should have taken legal action against Classic Team Lotus a long time ago.
I seem to remember reading another possible reason for the Lotus name coming into being…
In his early days, Colin Chapman attended an auction, and afterwards saw that one of the items for sale had “Lot u/s” (for “unsold”) written on its tag. According to the tale, the use was down to a sardonic sense of humour…
Just a side note;
Goodness we are keeping you busy Joe!!
Thanks for all the personal responses, it’s good to know that we the fans are being listened to by such a well respected Journalist as yourself.
Keep it up!!!!
“Tidak ada, pergi, melompat di sungai”
man …you can speak malay also hehehehe
Joe, do you know if Team Lotus are successful in all this, whether they would have access to classic Lotus racing machinery for ongoing marketing events such as the one run last year at Snetterton. I know Tony was quoted recently as saying they would play on the history of course going forwards if successful and surely such events would be an important component of that
Hi Joe,
this might seem a bit off subject, but when looking for something to enjoy with all the stunning things happening in Bahrain and with CVC, I just stumbled on the information that another ex ferrari man is behind buying the “De Tomaso” brand and trademarks (http://www.carsuk.net/de-tomaso-revived/)
Seems he also wants to bring 3 cars to market now and wants to do 8000 cars a year, a bit like Bahar.
I thought it might be possible, that these two are battling out old arguments. Or just that being at Ferrari gives all these guys the idea they are the czar of brand building and car sales.
BasCN,
I think at 79 years of age this chap might be a little old for five and 10-year plans…