My colleagues at crash.net have revealed that they believe that Robert Kubica thinks that the Lotus Renault GP team should pick Tonio Liuzzi as his replacement, rather than Nick Heidfeld. Kubica has had discussions with various team members since his accident, including Eric Boullier and Gérard Lopez, and it seems that he has made his feelings known about what he thinks would be best for the team. The choice was apparently made because he believes that Liuzzi is a better racer than Heidfeld, although it should be added that Liuzzi also has a good reputation as a test driver.
Heidfeld, on the other hand, has a great deal more experience with the Pirelli tyres, having conducted much of the Italian tyremaker’s testing in the autumn. It is believed that this is the reason why Pedro de la Rosa’s name has also been mentioned in connection with the Renault drive, as experience with the tyres might be an advantage. Having said that the other drivers are all now learning about the Pirellis and so the advantage that the test drivers enjoy will be short-lived.
It is worth noting that I had heard whispers of the same story, but I decided against reporting them because, to be quite honest, I am sick and tired of being constantly accused of supporting Liuzzi if I even mention his name. The fact remains that while F1 fans who are not involved in the sport do not seem to understand why F1 insiders rate Tonio, there are a lot of folk in the paddock who do think that he is a top notch driver – and that he has not necessarily been treated well by the teams for which he had driven. Fernando Alonso said as much in January and if Robert Kubica is now supporting his candidature as a Lotus Renault GP driver then it might be worth some fans reconsidering their points of view. I’ve said it enough times, I will leave it to others to say more.
I agree with you, Joe. Liuzzi would make a good combination with the R31.
i’m very surprised to hear that! personally i don’t really care that you like liuzzi, who honestly can’t say they are biased towards a driver – i am a fan of heidfeld for example.
do you think, if this actually is the case, that kubica might be protecting his own interests by suggesting a candidate of lower skill and potential for his own purposes, or do you think he genuinely believes that liuzzi is better
john g,
You have been reading too many conspiracy theories.
Hear hear!
Whether its Heidfeld, Liuzzi or De La Rosa or Simon Cowell, Im not particularly fussed. I would like to see Liuzzi get the nod for only one reason; to finally show everyone whether he is a good driver or, as I believe, a waste of good oxygen. If he gets the drive and again fails to get anywhere near his (average) team mate in the same metal, consistently fails to qualify in the top ten and shows poor race pace, then perhaps peoples’s inflated opinion of him might change. Bring it on Tonio…….
Heidfeld, Liuzzi, de la Rosa… Can you please tell me, what is the point to sign 4 spare pilots/test-pilots/third drivers if you better sign another “skilled as a test-pilot too” driver in case of casus improvisus?
At least 2 of LRGP official test-pilots are not so bad (Bruno & Grosjean). Writing “not so bad” here, I exactly mean, that both of them are” a top notch driver – and that they have not necessarily been treated well by the teams for which they had driven” Why not? Or 4 testers mean – 4 money-takers?
I would not mind if Liuzzi got the spot. I’m not a fan of Heidfeld, he has had his chance but somehow never really showed that extra little bit. I think he is a solid second driver but not a top notch racer that can lead a team. Perhaps Liuzzi is a driver that can do more, and is more hungry for a chance to drive. After being treated poorly by Force India, I think it would be good if he could show what he is worth.
I can understand the team having Heidfelds to develop the car in Jerez for his Pirelli experience as well as Kubica thoroughly knowing how to interpret Heidfelds views from their stint togeter.
And as Kubica drove in Italian F3, I suppose he will know Liuzzi (was Tonio also into the Poker club).
Peter Sauber possibly agrees with Nick not performing optimal when not having the pressure of a fast team mate, Renault would not want him to narrowly beat Petrov (unless Petrov improves a lot).
All in all, it would be fun to see Tonio in a Renault be the one to keep Mallya’s FI from regular top 10 finishes, wouldn’t it!
I agree, Heidfeld had more than his fair chance and its time for someone else to have a crack at it. Heidfeld is probably competent but unlikely to be spectacular, he has been at top teams but passed over many times in favor of his teammates like Kimi, Webber, Kubica who have all moved on to greater things. I can’t believe everyone would miss the potential so many times over the last 10 yrs or whatever if he actually has it.
Kubica would have more of an insight into Heidfeld’s abilities than most given his work as a team-mate.
To be honest I just think Renault need to pick someone fast and give them as much time in testing as possible.
…and could it be that Heidfeld is a known qunatity to Kubica and has proved to be quite a challenging competitor during their BMW tenure?
Liuzzi, disregarding how good he is or isn’t, is bound to be a safer option from the point of view of Robert’s hospital bed.
I am not on the inside, so I always accept Joe’s points on Liuzzi with respect. Considering I was always a staunch Jean Alesi supporter, I have to give drivers who have not had a good chance the benefit of the doubt.
Eventually though, you have to do enough to get noticed. Heidfeld has done it time and again with Jordan, Williams and Pirelli/Sauber. I think that’s why he’s favourite and I can’t see why that isn’t good enough.
If Liuzzi did something really impressive in 2010 then both me and Eric Boullier missed it. I’m allowed to miss it being uninformed and on the outside – if Boullier missed it too then that’s very worrying for Renault GP and their sponsor which I refuse to name(!).
While I like Liuzzi I think he is too similar to Fisi – a good driver when they are in the right mood but get just a little bit out of sorts and they go down the pan. If he can get his head together he could do good things.
That said, Heidfeld has shown fairly solid pace so would be a good job also. Whether he is as good a development driver I don’t know. Robert will be looking for someone to give him a good car for next season!
I’ve heard good things about Liuzzi at least since 2005. I can understand why he didn’t deliver at STR. But are there any ‘conspiracy theories’ as to why he didn’t perform well at all in FIF1?
I think Heidfeld has proven that he’s very close to Kubica and has tons of experience. Vitantonio has yet to prove himself, and hasn’t got the necessary experience to lead the team to some podiums finishes consistently.
It seems that Kubica is still hoping that he can come back very soon. Bullier on the other hand should understand that his team needs a new lead driver for a full season, at least.
I think they should slog it out in the ring.. whoever beats the crap out of the others should drive next year. Surely thats the fairest way to do it?
Shame for Liuzzi he always gets good word but newer the drive. As for Robert’s comments maybe it has to do with driving styles? From the BMW times it was clear that Robert and Nick have very different driving preferences. Maybe Nick will develop the car in the direction not very suitable for Kubica.
Aren’t Robert and Tonio pals? Didn’t they do karting together in Italy back in the day?
Sounds like RK has been sucking on sour grapes at his hospital bed.
I was watching Heidfeld in Jerez this weekend. Same old metronomic laps, albeit, quite quick. Same old quick Nick. It would have been interesting to see what Liuzzi could do, what’s the point of running Senna and simultaneously stating that he does not have enough experience.
It would be interesting to see Toni in a leading role within a team – though ideally it would be even nicer to seem him somewhere with a longer term commitment.
I read somewhere that Kubica vetoed Heidfeld as a possible team mate at Renault last season as he felt that their driving styles were too different. If Nick was to drive this season how much of an input to development for the 2012′s car would Nick have though feed back on this seasons car?
Liuzzi for me, I can’t stand Heidfields beard…
I think Heidfield is the best candidate, given his huge experience, and solid record for every team that he has driven for, and like Liuzzi, I feel he doesn’t get enough credit either. However, it would be very interesting to see Liuzzi get the nod, as there are many people who seem to rate him highly, even if the results on track in F1 haven’t shown this so far. I’m sure if fellow competitors, Alonso and Kubica, think of him highly then I’m sure they have seen things on and off the track that suggest he’s better than the results suggest. A chance in a top team like Renault would the Liuzzi’s chance to prove himself once and for all.
I’m ambivalent about the merits of Heidfeld and Liuzzi, as neither has proved to be a true superstar in my book (yet).
However, if Force India are contractually obliged to place Liuzzi in an F1 car this season, then Renault may find themselves with two pay-drivers this year.
It’s an unusual scenario for an upper-midtable team!
Top-notch driver is Alonso earning heaps of praise in a Minardi, or Kimi in a Sauber, or Vettel in a Toro Rosso, Liuzzi in a… eh….
Heidfeld is a driver almost guaranteed to bring out the best in a car.. And if he can help the team to heights they have been craving, someone like that could become a permanent fixture of a team, at least for one year, waaaay later then Kubica’s planned return.
In comes Liuzzi.
This is of course, just based on Liuzzi’s track record, vs Heidfeld’s..
“if kubica is now supporting..”
if is the key, it doesn’t sound much like Robert for me, he usually is much more restrained in such statements.
could be just a news speculation, taking into consideration no announcement from Lotus Renault GP yet.
it’s interesting who they choose eventually.
Robert Kubics lobbying against Heidfeld? He did this last year too. Of course he would though, after Nick outscored him twice at BMW and was hardly blown away in 2008. The one thing you’ve failed to mention in all of this Joe is Kubica was assisted by Heidfeld in winning the 2008 Canadian grand prix. The German statesman sacrifed his opportunity to win his first grand prix in order to ensure the team collected a one two. Kubica is yet to win a race on his own merit and while he impressed many with his performance last season it’s worth putting in perspective who his team mate was and the absence of any championship pressure.
I don’t dislike Liuzzi and I agree he hasn’t been treated well by Formula One but I can’t help but draw from what you said about Hulkenberg and Williams. If Tonio was so bloody good and highly rated by F1 insiders why didn’t Red Bull, STR or Force India keep him?
Matt
Australian Autosport Community
PS typed this up on iPhone, apologies for any mistakes.
Matt,
You can have whatever opinion you like. I don’t care. I am just reporting what happened.
why didn’t Renault use Liuzzi in the Jerez test then?
I know that you do rate Tonio and always preferred him to Adrian when they raced last year, can’t remember how you put it on one of the sidepodcasts….
As for Fernando supporting him I think that he was asked about Italian drivers. What with him working for Ferrari I thought that it was a company / fan response. He is smart that way.
I would suggest that quick Nick would be the better option. I would suggest that he is a racer in the mould of Jenson. Not the all out quickest but smart and savvy.
Ginger.
@ Joe,
Have Renault determined yet when they will reveal all?
This could be as simple as Boullier trying to save a couple of bucks on Heidfeld’s contract.
Joe,
It’s not my intention to be confrontational and what I wrote wasn’t an attack on your reporting of this story. Just so we’re clear.
How many times does Liuzzi need to prove he’s not good enough?
I was all for his comeback with Force India, it was great that they chose him and gave him a shot. His first drive back at Monza was great (until the car let him down). But he has since proved that he’s just not up to the task.
If he’s great at developing cars then that’s what he should be hired as, a Friday test driver. Because he just doesn’t have it in race trim.
He may have a more than decent record in lower formulae but one just has to look at Giorgio Pantano…
It would be a shame for Renault to pass over Nick Heidfeld and my estimation of Robert Kubica will go down if this story turns out to be true. I’m siding with john g and mayhemfunkster on this one
mcdo,
Don’t complain to me, complain to Robert and Fernando. They are the guys who rate him. I’m just a stupid journalist who has been bribed to say good things about Liuzzi (or so some jerks writing into this blog have suggested).
I can’t believe we have to debate “Which driver is the best: Heidfeld or Liuzzi?”. It’s a no-contest, it’s obvious that Nick Heidfeld is the better driver, and by far.
I can only think of three posibilities regarding this news:
1. Kubica didn’t say a word on having Liuzzi over NH, and this is all rumours.
or
2. Kubica is experiencing certain brain fade.
or
3. Kubica knows that if the Renault is a good car, NH will do as well as he would do (or better), eclipsing RK’s chances of a mid-season return.
I hope it’s reason [1].
Flavio E,
We don’t have to debate anything. And I am not going to.
But perhaps you might open your brain to the fact that Alonso and Kubica might just rate Liuzzi, rather than looking for some twisted Machiavellian reason why they would say such things…
I don’t know what to think of Liuzzi. Were he the driver he is by some touted to be, then why on earth has he not yet proven his ability, given the opportunities that have been presented to him thus far? Others have grabbed what chances they have had with both hands, and got far more from the cars they have driven than ought reasonably to be the case, but not Liuzzi. Goodness knows, I have longed to see his supposed talent manifest itself, but I’m still waiting. In vain, I’m thinking.
There are some drivers who, while not particularly good racers, are exceptional test drivers, them capable of giving inordinately high quality of feedback. Take Olivier Panis, one of the finest of the modern era test drivers. I remember one time, him spotting and reporting an engine fault with the Toyota he was testing, a fault that refused to manifest itself on monitoring equipment. However, such was the quality and reliability of his feedback, the engineers stripped the motor, whereupon the fault was eventually found and then subsequently rectified.
Pedro de la Rosa is another fine tester. But he is not quick enough. As for him replacing Kubica; I think not. While he may evaluate well and hence help with the cars development, he is not the best choice when it comes to racing.
There are some drivers who for whatever reason do far better in lesser cars, yet, when put in something half-decent, they fail to deliver, that previous display of talent somehow having vaporised during the transition. Fisichella, is a case in point. Heaven knows, he had more than his fair share of chances, driving mid to low grid place cars well, but not so when driving something good..
That leaves Heidfeld, a driver who is both reasonably quick during a race, has experience of the Pirelli tyres, and can help develop the car. From what I have seen thus far, Liuzzi does not have those qualities in the same quantity.
Whoever gets the drive, I wish them well, and hope they make the most of the opportunity.
The only reason Kubica would prefer Liuzzi from Heidfeld would be that he thinks Heidfeld could eventualy become a competition and be sidelined for the whole year
I understand that you are tired of hearing people like me not giving credit to liuzzi. But in Business, in sport, in life their are hints, credits or anything that people see of someone in order to form an idea of the talent, expertise, or future of someone. Especially when you are given an opportunity.
Following this idea Joe, I would like to know what are the achievments of Liuzzi or credits that you have seen of him during his more than four years of experience. I can understand that probably in less than two years you still have something to prove, but in three teams, and more than four years I do not see anything.
Probably I am blind an haven´t seen his acomplishments.
pride,
You should look more closely at what is behind the results.
I agree with Matt’s comments. NH could have won the 2008 Canadian GP and then RK would be the one not having won a race yet. Also bear in mind that NH has never had a truly winning car, despite his 173 starts.
I rate RK highly but NH would be a solid replacement, under the circumstances. I can’t help but think that RK considers NH more of a threat, as NH acquitted himself rather well against RK in the 2009 season.
I also can’t understand why all the fuss about VL. His best qualifying position is 7th and his best race result is 6th, after 63 starts?
Salspeed,
Who’s making the fuss about Liuzzi. No-one serious. Fernando Alonso, Robert Kubica… I expect this is because Liuzzi is a rubbish driver…
I really hope they go for Liuzzi. I don’t feel I have the tools available to accurately judge his and Heidfeld’s respective abilities, but I feel Liuzzi would represent a much more interesting choice, and a much better balance of experience and potential.
joe,
Accused of getting bribed? Some people are insane. I agree with you, every man to his own opinion. Accusations of bribes are, well, just the words of a moron.
I would back Liuzzi too – he has had a raw time in the last few years but has shown to be a damn good driver when given the equipment.
Joe
You are not a “stupid journalist”, just take that tongue out of that cheek.
Those with a better insight than me rate Tonio very highly, so any opinion or theory on him from me is without the detailed knowledge of those within the sport. Personally I think he’s an extremely talented individual, the same as anyone that has raced an F1 car, so people saying Tonio is rubbish etc have not got a clue what they are talking about. All GP drivers are exceptional indviduals, why do people not understand this.
Regarding Nick or Tonio…………..
Its got to be Heidfeld because of his metronomic relaibility and proven speed over long periods, never mind his car development skills. With the best will in the world Tonio has not proved himself to be in Heidfelds class yet, not saying the ability isnt there.
Another thought is that perhaps Kubica doesnt want Quick Nick in the car rather like Dany Bahar doesnt want Tony Fernandes in F1. I’m not suggesting Kubica has any character flaws, its just his competitive side not wanting his replacment to maybe do what he did last year.
Please people remember an F1 driver of any level has a talent beyond what most of us can understand.
Everybody…
I am now declaring this comment page a Liuzzi-free zone. There has been enough comment on this.
Comment on whatever you like, but all further Liuzzi remarks (positive or negative) will be deleted.
Two reasons for this: the first is that it does not matter a jot what any of us think; and secondly I am tired of being abused because I stand up for someone who has had a rough time and deserves better. It is not my fault that Fernando and Robert have said what they have said.
End of story.
I remember Barrichello giving a lot of credit to Lucas DiGrassi, and Ayrton said his Nephew was even quicker than he was. So much for big time endorsements…
Some drivers seem to stick around a long time, without really proving that they want to give it everything it takes. They may have been very succesful in feeder series but in F1 they just fade out. Trulli and Fisichella are famous cases. Then there are some that have the raw talent but never the chance and the right circumstances to really shine, like Alesi… Heidfeld is in danger of becoming one of the former, but I don’t know if Liuzzi is one of the latter either.
If the Lotus vs Lotus feud wasn’t raging I would try a swap with Kovalainen and put Hulkenberg in the other Lotus. Kovalainen has the experience and the speed, and has been very impressive with a 2nd rate car last year. He knows the team as well, and might be better suited to it without the politricks of Briatore. But well, it won’t happen, now, will it??
Bah, I am always late to the party……
Having said that, I hope Renault make the right decision. Nothing better than a closely fought championship.
Anyway, who are Alonso and Kubica to rate a driver they have/had to race against/with on a weekly basis. Better leave that to me! From the comfort of my armchair and hiding behind the anonymity of the internet I can most definitely make my drivel count as opinion and, bargain!, I can also make appear to hold equal weight to the ones expressed by professional F1 drivers.
What I want to know is where this perception of Heidfeld having had his chance and blown it?
Hes only ever had one grand prix winning car at his disposal, the BMW Kubica used to win in Canado 08. And Nick himself was damn near winning that day. In the whole rest of his career, he has never seen a team-mate win a race.
Considering the impact the cars make, it would seem Nick has waited a long time for his chance and has never really had it yet.
Im not a Heidfeld fan, I just think theres an unfair perception of the bloke. I would certainly like to see him get the Renault drive.
Burtros,
Your perception. Not mine.
Jeffrey, imagine if dark side Lotus stole Heikki off Team Lotus! That would be hilarious! The lawyers would be rubbing their hands together at the prospect of more time in court.
Anyway, Liuzzi or Heidfeld would both make good replacements and there is plenty to recommend about both, so good luck to them.
Joe, I’m staggered that anybody could read your ever-provocative writing and think you are in the pay of anybody in the paddock. Maybe you should be! Schumacher could do with some press support and he’s got a few coppers in the jar!
@ Mr Wrong
“Anyway, who are Alonso and Kubica to rate a driver they have/had to race against/with on a weekly basis. Better leave that to me! From the comfort of my armchair and hiding behind the anonymity of the internet I can most definitely make my drivel count as opinion and, bargain!, I can also make appear to hold equal weight to the ones expressed by professional F1 drivers.”
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Nice. Nice.
@ anyone who bitches about this blog and Joes opinion:
What’s the point of reading a blog such as this if you’re not willing to listen to other sides of an argument? Especially when it comes from someone with far more knowledge on the subject than the rest of us combined! I will happily express my opinion, but I don’t profess to know everything, and that’s the reason I enjoy Joe’s blog so much. It’s Joe opinion that I value. It doesn’t matter if I agree or not, I’m here to be educated on a subject I love by a man who has immense knowledge and experience. Joe has insight that the rest of us could only dream of, so let’s take advantage of that and be grateful that we get access to Joe’s knowledge. And it’s for free ffs!
Anyway, that’s my rant for the day.
Nick for the Renault seat. I like the guy, mainly cos he has a beard. Seems as good a reason as any to me
Regardless of whomever takes the spare Renault spot, I hope they take the opportunity with both hands and make something of it Kobayashi style.
Renaults decision comes down to a choice between two drivers, one is a fully known quantity and has proven himself to be average, a safe pair of hands but no superstar. The other available driver will at worst provide an equally safe pair of hands, but if certain people are correct about him might turn out to be rather more than that, for this reason Renault would do well to listen to their crocked driver and put “he who must not be named” in the car, thus giving him a good opportunity to show what he is really capable of.
P.S I hope this gets past the censor!
P.P.S I still think the perfect team mate for Alonso would be V******* L*****!!
Regardless of whomever takes the spare Renault spot, I hope RK will be back in his sit as soon as possible and it’s just temporary replacement.
Democracy: every opinion may be expressed, whether saintly or stupido.