I am not a great believer in petitions, because usually they are ignored by people who do not have to answer to an electorate, but it is worth pointing out that the human rights organisation avaaz has been asking for support to stop the Grand Prix in Bahrain. At the time of writing the total number of signatures is close to 439,000. As any F1 internet veteran will tell you the world’s serious English-speaking F1 fans number around 500,000, as most websites tend to top out at that kind of number when it comes to unique users. This would suggest that a considerable percentage of people who care about the sport are not happy with the FIA decision, although there are no doubt a large number of people who do not care about the sport, but do care about human rights issues. I have no idea how the numbers are split. Nonetheless, here is the link to the petition.
The message attached to the petition reads: “To Red Bull, and other F1 teams: We call on you to declare publicly that you won’t race in Bahrain this year, because the government has killed and injured hundreds of innocent people who were standing up for their rights. Your reputation, and Formula 1’s, will suffer if you reward this deadly regime.”
joeblogsf1 
Great idea, but uuuh, Red Bull won’t like that their car isdepicted on that image — but I guess that the whole idea shock the teams and promoters by associating them with the bloodshed.
Oh, commented before reading the site… they ARE targetting Red Bull specifically.
Joe, I don’t think F1 and Bernie care. There can be 1 billion signatures, as long as the codger makes a few quid, he could care less.
I need to preface my statement earlier, when I mean F1, I specifically mean those in charge of the circus, not the teams and drivers, as I know most are dead set against Bahrain.
Mr. Saward,
You have started something very positive here. I am watching the hits on the site right now.
Now we will see if a mass petition will actually be heard by all those that made this decision to begin with.
We will stay tuned.
Thanks Joe.
Wouldn’t it be more effective to pressure the sponsors, rather than the teams?
Dear Joe,
I’m an occasional reader of your site – I like the fact that you think about things a lot before you write.
Will you be going to Bahrain?
Thanks
Ross
Ross in Bali,
I am not convinced it will happen.
Seen the ratings form Amnesty International?
Why then are you not on the case with Turkey and China? India isn’t that far off Bahrain in the role of shame.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Tables/4_col_tables/0,,258330,00.html
Brazil features there too.
Then have a look here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Tables/4_col_tables/0,,258329,00.html
I count 9 GP countries on that list.
Joe you are the best….
Thank you for the link, see you in Austin 2012…
Thanks Joe. Don’t give a shit if Bernie and co don’t care – I do
Mike in NY – my belief is that the only reason that any of the teams and drivers care has more to do with personal safety than anything else – everything else they say is just PR.
And the teams are set against it not because of some moral dilemna, rather a dilemna of the impact on their balance sheet. They will go if they see that there will be an upswing in their sales; and won’t if they predict a negative impact on their revenues. Pessimist or realist – but ain’t no morality at play – its all about financials.
Bernie and co are playing their cards like a business after all, its all about the colour of money, and they’re all guilty – morality? That’s for us schmucks to worry about. Petition? Well it might swing the balance sheet one way or the other, but in the end they’re all gonna do what their financial analysis says they should do – fullstop!
I signed it some days ago. I hope all F1 fans do.
2 other points :
– When you sign, a running list brings up the first names and origins of people signing in real time. It’s clear that those who sign are from a large cross-section of different countries – it’s not at all anglo-centric. I’m not quite sure of the purpose of your figures, Joe, but I would guess that not more than 20% of signers are F1 fans, so there’s still room for us to defend our sport more.
– The aim is to influence sponsors to bring their thoughts and needs to the table. Everyone knows that Bernie and Todt usually think they know better. No doubt that is why Avaaz concentrated on Red Bull – they sell a product directly to the public, and so would be vulnerable to a consumer boycott. That’s not the case of the other teams. Also they hold both championships, so for outsiders represent the sport.
signed – cheers Joe
I find the almost universal rejection and distain for this GP going ahead extremely positive, and I think better of the majority of people that I did even a week ago. Hopefully it’s a good sign
As well as signing the petition why not e-mail your protest to FOTA and urge them to boycott the race. Here is the address……..
info@teamsassociation.org
Iain
I’m with ACr on this one and to be honest…
I’d rather be a protestor and get shot at with rubber bullets and/or imprisoned in Bahrain than be a protestor in China and ‘mysteriously disppear’.
Besides, keep F1 out of politics please.
Josh,
What a strange attitude.
@ACr yes I agree with you, but we’re firmly in the minority I’m afraid.
ACr is right in his criticism about F1 attending countries that don’t care much about human rights. F1 has always had a bad reputation in this respect. They never had problems with racing in South Africa in the heydays of apartheid and started the season in Videla’s Argentina more than once. Gosh, the fact alone that they race in China, shows that they race everywhere as long as the price is right. But what can you expect from a sport that is led by someone who has repeatedly said he does not believe in democracy and openly admires Hitler?
That being said, every effort not to race in Bahrain or whatever country that doesn’t care about its citizens, deserves support. It’s disappointing that Mark Webber has been the only driver so far who dares to criticize the FIA decision.
Whats bernie playing at. Media outlets now reporting a U-turn by him. Telling FOTA to protest it and maybe putting the Bahrain race in december leaving India where it was.
Any idea what angle he’s trying to play here Joe as it seems very bizarre.
You have to assume most of those that voted on facebook are not F1 viewers at all, and are probably political opportunists.
And I agree that internet polls can be less than representative of the masses, because if they do represent the views of the majority then the poll on Crash.net shows the complete opposite to the facebook campaign.
Yes, it deserved to return to 2011 calendar: 59.17 percent
Yes, it deserved to return – but not until 2012: 06.07 percent
No, F1 should have taken a moral stance: 23.85 percent
No, F1 should never return there: 10.91 percent
Karen
Very odd numbers. What was the survey sample? 10 people?
I have never been a fan of petitions, but I have done this one. I feel as Max Mosely pointed out that the consequences of racing in Bahrain may not be felt today, but the sponsors of tomorrow may be watching with interest.
I signed it last Thursday, when a mate send me the link. As I took the few minutes to sign, I could keep track of the other ones signing. One in about every three seconds….
Thank you for bringing this petition to our attention Joe. It all helps and certainly the tide seems to be turning – Max Mosley was hardly supportive today on BBC’s today programme and seemed to imply that Bernie/FIA may also change (or be forced to) his/their mind
Just have to say this,
way to go, Jean and Max, as reported today.
Blasted problem with politics, much gets done quietly in back rooms. But key things get spoken out. Be it silly long seasons (work that back to this one, trying to tack one on the end) or the subject here.
Here’s the actual source for Max, which is being quoted for clicks elsewhere:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9506000/9506428.stm
dear me, may common sense break out?
– j
Signed!…and since I happen to be a South American who likes to read his F1 news in English, I hope that I’m not one of that 500k statistic, leave that another F1 fan to add more numbers to the petition.
Great job Joe.
This would suggest that a considerable percentage of people who care about the sport are not happy with the FIA decision
————-
Or that a large number of people who know nothing about F1 have jumped on the bandwagon due to the press coverage.
Personally I’m staying neutral on the whole thing about the race, I don’t see how F1 can be blamed when it seems to be the protesters (not the regime) who are the ones threatening to use the race for the purposes of publicity and bloodshed.
I sympathise with those who feel oppressed, but I also sympathise with those who would lose out by F1 not meeting it’s contractual obligations. In the end the F1 circus signed up for Bahrain just like they did in other countries with questionable situations, China, Turkey, India, even the US can all be accused of similar or worse crimes. Similarly the teams and sponsors signed up as well, I don’t see how they can really justify pulling out now.
Josh
I am pretty sure that the Bahraini Sunni police, or the Saudi army will be very happy to shoot and/or imprison you if you go and join a protest in Bahrain. But will you have achieved anything of worth? You will probably be tried as either a terrorist or an Iranian spy, eventually after several months interrogation in jail. Guilt is assured, after all you were there!
No idea Joe.
As I said internet opinion is far from being representative.
You would need a reputable polling organisation, who would check the demographic weighting of the respondents to get close to an accurate result.
Or wait for the race to be run (which I believe it won’t), and then look at the viewing figures to see satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the race.
Karen,
You make it seem such a waste of time to write on the Internet. Maybe I should just give it up and everyone could rely on people who pretend to be experts about F1.
Ian T thanks for link, I have emailed FOTA with subject Bahrain.
If all could follow suit please maybe they will take notice.
Hey Joe,
if you think it’s strange to prefer to be hit by non lethal rubber projectiles for protesting in Bahrain than to dissappear for eternity for protesting in China, then I think you should protest for “Human Rights” at the next GP of China and see how you like it. Worked out great for Tank Man, didn’t it…
For those saying ‘F1 should keep out of politics’ – you should be arguing for the Bahrain race to be cancelled. F1 racing in support of propoganda makes the sport a political tool. The only logical way to keep F1 out of politics is to demand F1 keeps out of Bahrain.
Karen,
I went to the crash site, which I had never been to before. 1) I can vote as often as I’d like as I just voted multiple times… 2) they don’t list the response rate, sample size. So don’t believe everything you read on the inter…….
Jean Todt had an odd interview with the BBC, when asked about things such as unanimous he was pretty clear in his answer, but then he spoke of how the race should be there to show that the event in Bahrain have returned to normal and both sides want the race. When asked if that means F1 is being used for political gain (certainly a nood to the Turkey mishap and FIA statues) he said that sport should be the “medicine” to deal with the political unrest. I mean clearly he has a different idea of what medicine is, because I always though medicine made you better when you were sick, it wasn’t something you took AFTER you got better.
The fact that those doctors and nurses are being put on trail after months of being locked up in jail for upholding their oath to help people who are injured is sickening. I like that the trail began after the race’s reinstatement at the FIA, because if that story had come out the day before the FIA’s meeting it would have been a sour blot on the vote’s results. Its all being orchestrated, vote two days after state of emergency is lifted…
I am really rather sickened about this. As we need to be showing the better aspects of sport, not the worst. Look at the IOC, they at least do spend time on promoting peace during their games despite all the chatter about waste, bribes, etc. They are at least able to communicate a message.
Perhaps moving the Indian GP is the real motivation
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=708714&page=43
A month without a race would be a long time
The difficulty with this kind of petition is that it is only one sided, another one would be needed if you wanted the race to go on. A poll would be better in this respect but is open to all, like the facebook poll, but those replying may not know what it is really about.
But that is democracy.
I do not like the fact Redbull have been highlighted in the question, or if the question is a reply to the fact the teams need to agree the change.
I think the teams hold the only card, as Mosley states. Therefore it will seem the race will not go ahead. As Horner stated earlier in the year the teams would have boycouted the race if it went on as scheduled.
I feel for India, what do they think?
Stick to the schedule is the only way
I think Acr, josh and crew miss the point.
The average citizen in Bahrain has taken to the streets of their country to induce change and their active struggle should be supported. After all we of the western world have physically and financially supported their dictatorships for years.
Those of old enough to have been politically aware at the time supported the students at Tiananmen square and i’m sure most will support the Chinese people in their next revolution; which with the growing wealth gap there is not that far away.
The more foreigners that the Chinese meet in their own country, the harder it is for the government to use propaganda as a control.
If we are to only judge by the Amnesty international list we are going to have to remove races from Canada, Britain and stop the inaugral US in Texas.
Hi Joe:
First off, I really enjoy your reporting; thank you for posting so much interesting, valuable, and insightful stuff on the web for us to consume.
Second – certainly don’t mean to discourage you from doing so, but do you feel that posting potentially controversial links (such as the petition one in this post) may result in complications with the authorities when / if you do travel to Bahrain again?
Cheers,
Damir
Damir,
I would have thought that they would be keen to have me to prove that their side of the story is true.
Well the negative publicity finally seems to have reached Bernie, who is now asking everyone else to reverse the decision he voted for.
@ACr
Regardless of the relevance, or otherwise, to the general debate of the point you’re trying to make, you won’t do your own credibility, nor that of any argument you support, any good whatsoever with such poor research as shone in quoting out-of-date information… didn’t you even notice long-gone “Yugoslavia” at the top of that first table? Yugo-who?! Even Montenegro and Serbia parted company five whole years ago.
Those old tables were compiled by The Observer, not Amnesty International, from various sources (of which Amnesty was but one), and the most recent data used comes from, and the tables were published in, 1999.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/1999/oct/24/humanrights2
Hi Joe,
Not sure if you’ve seen this yet, but it’s been doing the rounds on twitter this evening – a copy of the Carlos Gracia’s report into Bahrain…
Click to access FIA%20Bahrain%20report%20FULL.pdf
Sepp Blatter talking about corruption to football world: ‘Crisis? What is a crisis?’
“Our special envoy had many meetings in Bahrain, even with the human rights people responsible,” said Todt, “He found a stable situation, a quiet one, and we unanimously agreed.”
What’s the difference?
Bring back Max, all is forgiven!
bt52b
Steady on. One needs to llok a little at some of the other things Max did – and did not do. Jean Todt has done a very good job. This is a glitch.
I have another idea for a petition……. Dear FOTA, please get organised and start your own breakaway series. You hold all the power and with a mandate set by fans signatures you could pick and choose the best tracks and we won’t have to watch boring races in travesty nations like China and Bahrain.
Howzat?
Signed
Keep up the good work Joe, Thanks
Joe, just 1342 fans short of 450,000 have signed the AVAAZ petition, as at 07:46 BST on 8th June 2011.
I think all these moanings are not about human rights, it’s about personal safety for members of F1 teams.
If Bahrain would have greater territory and protest happened in 300-500 km distance from the track, airport and hotels, no one would care.
Leaked FIA Full report on Bahrain :
http://www.f1arab.com/2011/06/08/fia-bahrain-report/
The FIA have proven themselves to be stupendously naive. This report says it all:
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/06/07/f1_fact_finding_report_finds_no_indication_of_any_problems_in_bahrain
@Grove
Like I said, internet polls are notoriously inaccurate, you need a reputable polling organisation that will take into account the demographics of the respondents and weight them accordingly … Check out the 2 different FOTA questionnaire conclusions, one weighted and one not.
@Joe
I’m talking about random web polls that have no checks and balances with regard to their respondents, as I think you rightly know 😉
Apparently there is a letter now, from all teams, saying they object to the Bahrain reinstatement, technically because of it creating a december race.
That actually leaves me more disappointed than before. No need to go into the reasons why. I’m starting to think of skipping a race or however many, until there’s some clarity and a show of principles. Sure, i know this has to be done carefully by the teams, but they not only have possible rules on their side as MM mentions, but ultimately the care of their sponsor brands at stake, which ought to override any other complexities in their contracts. There’s still a chance to make this a positive statement for F1. It honestly does not take that long to get the CEOs of their sponsors to turn around a reaction. My God, i could probably have found ways to cold call the lot in the time this has been brewing. My experiences with big execs is they do not mess about, do not delegate, that is why they are in their jobs. Okay, some are straw men, but conveniently those kind never answer their phones, so i’ve no idea about them. So why the hold up?
Just listening to the apologist for the Bahrain regime, second half of the BBC Today programme, linked above, which i played over and over, the sheer weakness and plaintive self doubt in that man’s voice, it was utterly clear neither he believed what he was saying, nor wanted to be saying it, and the depth of this lack of confidence, from a man sent no less to prop up the decision which in theory benefits him directly, just screamed to me how much worse the situation must be, and how well understood that is, even by the man who supposedly brought F1 to his country. That, or he’s a total shill, but i’d like to give him more credit and imagine his political betters twisting his arm “you got us F1, you convince them”. Didn’t sound like he wanted to convince. Sounded like a man with his balls in a vice. Or is a frank interview with a educated journalist that scary? Well, none of us would want his job right now, so allowing he’s a F1 fan, allow the man some consideration. Not only that, he’s just been put on the spot over atrocities which we can reasonably believe are none of his doing, on the BBC’s biggest radio news programme, no less. (and the radio gets listened to much more internationally i believe than the repetative awful so called “news 24”)
Statistic i would like to know: exactly how many tickets and hospitality packages can be confirmed for the new date?
Why cannot at least the drivers’ association take a stand on this?
The silence is shameful.
Honestly, i woke this morning, caught the news, and my heart sank. I stopped watching F1 over Schumi silliness, and for heaven’s sake i was a true fan of his at the time. So far, on all of this, in my book, plus a very big number for Mark W, and minus an incalculable amount for everyone else. Sorry if i do not get a full list of which drivers are on record for this, I know Rubens has spoken out, and he always had a sense of humanity. But is it just the older drivers figuring they’ve not much to loose, or has the moral compass of the great young talent been sponsored, and awaiting PR clearance? Does it strike no-one that silence on this might sour some genuine support?
Confession: i haven’t yet signed that petition, because it just doesn’t convey the depth of my disappointment. But i sure will be putting my name to it if this week passes with no clear movement.
This is something i love being trussed up by spineless so and so’s and F1 is about striking for the high ground, not taking a whipping from gutless politicos and fearful prevaricators.
I’m usually a patient watcher of corporate machinations. But as a famous exec in Japan is alleged to have said once: I want consensus and i want it now.
– j
Some Realpolitik with a bit of risk: Since RB are likely to run away with both championships well before the end of the season, and they promote themselves as a hip brand, they might do well to simply announce that they won’t participate in the GP. If the championships get tight later in the season they just backtrack, claiming that things have gotten much better etc.
Having said all that, i applied the test to myself. It’s risky this hypocrisy game.
I’m not sure i can actually ask customers “if you do not speak out about Bahrain, sorry, no business with me”. So to that extent i am a hypocrite.
The fundamental difference though, is i am not selling a sport followed by massive numbers where the statistics are outweighed by each fan’s appreciation for the history. I cannot myself offer a chance to make the decision sound positiv, which would be possible here.
And as a Saudi gentleman just pointed out to me, because i moaned in jest, as i always do, as a reflex to fill in silences, a never ending joke to which there are always new and useful answers, that boy is it hard dealing with anything in their parts, “John, you know the history, just never forget we are suspicious of any British men in our parts” and the rest of the conversation was along the lines of how the Arab League was founded, and all that, and how it came to pass that though there are more nations than the UN records there, they like to show a united face.
Therefore, i imagine, this is not about cancelling the Bahrain GP, it is about a very complex game of understanding how not to upset another very complex game, when – if who i have spoken to is any guide – this is a most tender and worrisone time, not just for ruling elites. Some, i imagine, will see the loss of the GP as actually destabilising in a wider fashion, because to withdraw from one state almost requires the complicity of others.
So, this is no less than playing with the balance of power which has been fuelled by black gold. Many people (proportionately) i have worked with had deep memories, going back to that transition. To my mind, it was possible because some had riches before, say from pearl diving, and so did not resent another lot having their own game, even when that tipped the powers.
I shall by reaction, whatever my views as to F1, up my game in learning about the place. It’s not quite how i remembered it, but Aramco World, really is a great archive for a website. Not your usual magazine. The cool reaction to all of this would be if we all went and learned what we could. That cold war thing was also a way to brush over and put out of our minds so much of life, giving us another kind of peace of not knowing, which the internet has effectively reversed, and so i’d like to use the opportunity.
When i was a little boy i blagged obscure magazines from around the world. Now you still can get enormous insights by doing the same (some of it is really like that thing on Have I got New For You where they take bits from Pig Keeper’s Weekly, heck i once received a magazine just about tunneling for telecoms, but there do exist gems) but no matter i disagree with them – because their system does not distinguish well the quality of media, i wish Brin and Page were not my generation but had come before.
The funny thing is that all this interest could indeed help Bahrain, not condemn it. And in that i guess F1 isn’t a golden chip. But we should play it nonetheless, because even if it is not caring in the same way they can all understand, it’s caring by our way, which matters too. They are not really used to us westerners giving such a toss. Let’s try it.
Haven’t the rulers in Bahrain already achieved as much as they could hope for out of this situation even if the race does not go ahead? The FIA tells us their isn’t anything thing the matter much in the country and apparently the teams only objection to attending is arranging cargo and flights. Unless the FIA retract their asssessment of the situation then hasn’t the damage already been done?
Mr.E has just said the race in cancelled.
John (other John)
I can actually understand why the teams are saying they don’t want Bahrain on the principle of it changing the calendar. Its the obvious way out that won’t upset any of their sponsors and doesn’t embroil them in politics (as you’ve seen on here hard liners may start calling on teams why the wont boycott China etc).
Fair play to them. Regardless of the actual reason used, they are saying no to Bahrain and stopping the Bahrainis using the F1 race as propaganda. If only the FIA had taken a similar stance.
Mark Webber is coming out as this wonderful shining light because he has spoken out, but then again he’s not really got a lot to lose by speaking out has he? I’m sure other drivers on the grid will have opinions but will have been advised not to make statements by their teams. MW in all honesty doesn’t seem to care any more whether he’s in F1 next year or not and therefore its easy for him to speak his mind without recriminations that would affect his career. Don’t get me wrong, I like the fact he’s spoken out, but lets not make out that nobody else in F1 cares.
The real person who we should be looking at when it come to morals in this whole affair is Ecclestone. He’s the person who’s pushed and brokered constantly to get the Bahrain race to go ahead and now he’s done a U-turn within the day of the FIA giving him what he wanted.
He says it has nothing to do with money but with Bernie thats as likely as his young wife being not being motivated by money and being with him for his boyish good looks.
There is a quote from him over Bahrain says he hopes for “Peace and Quiet” (Not peace in political terms) in Bahrain in the future. Problem is Bernie really doesn’t seem to care how that peace and quiet is achieved.
Martin,
I like what you are saying.
There is a wonderful Arabic saying which goes roughly “the best way to respond to folls, is with silence”.
That both explains their tolerance, and explains why they tolerate too much, amongst themselves.
Never realised Bernie got a new girl. If that is the case, he will be so thoroughly disinterested in F1, we might as well call it a day. I know, because my father married late (he never divorced, sadly his first and only other wife died) but that causes problems. Am I reading you right? This is not about Slavonica, she of SLEC fame? I always thought it suss to name a business about who was not in it. I never graduated (time, death) to having my name oin my business partner’s private very personal outfit, but neither were we going to add names to our separate trademark. I might name a company after my daughter. Two very good film producers did that about their parents – Mira and Max. There is an absurd commercial – social connexion between all of those names which is best left to fade. I do not have permission to ressurect it.
I just came back because i wanted the link for the petition. I do not know now whether i alreday identified myself enough through the “identity” i have here, or must use my business details, which pose another conflicted problem. I know many people who had real reasons to protect their identity, in conflict or otherwise. I am not sure how to deal with this because Avaaz do not specify who their third party sharers of information are, but ask e,g, for my phone number, and i do not want to lie. Apparently there are some 450,000 signatories, but this one is being shy. Back to my letter writing idea, i think. At least there i can let rip with all my background, because i might even trace back if any of that got typed in somewhere, (this is called salting the database, old trick) and that would be something i’d rub in a bit. Two way street this media thing.
Sorry, back to your thoughts,
yes, Mark Webber is my Hero. Simple as that. I’m completely impressed. We need role models in this silly time. Maybe i was just a deprived kid, i really didn’t have heroes then, and maybe want one now. Any which way, Webber gets my vote, out of total respect.
A lovely Russian chap, who works or worked for BBC Monitoring – this was internet before the internet in my early days, all channels translated every which way, streams of fascination and just as much rubbish – told me at a party, “John, you must hate your job”. Because i had just tried to explain to him how i deal in adverts. He was right, but conflicted as i am, it is what i wanted to do. Maybe i should have thrown the Q back, but he was for real.
I can put my finger on this, but not in public. Because how i understand things is so personal to me. Basically i do suss all the corporate machinations. My father sat me on his knee and told me stories of his. Like you, like so many people, i believe, I just want someone to go be an adult, and stand up for what they are on about. Corporate things are just like growing up to learn your father’s politics, it is attrition. It is not directly right nor wrong. You understand it all, because daddy explained why such and such happened, but really what you cry out for, often silently, is a simple direction: go left, or go right. It is not even about a guarantee or a holding hand when you get there. You just want the advice.
thanks for writing, Martin,
yours,
– john
With the number of people who signed the petition to stop the Grand Prix in Bahrain, the organizers should listen. Whether these people are F1 fanatics or not, still there is something good in listening to them. Holding the race in Bahrain this year may not yet be a very good idea especially that the political situation in that country is not that stable. Anything may happen and those who are opportunistic and have selfish interests may take the event as a time to attract world attention and insist in getting what they want.