Adrian Sutil’s manager Manfred Zimmermann says that the German driver is not talking to any other teams at the moment. He says it is nonsense that Sutil is talking to Williams.
Why on earth would that be the case?
Even assuming that spies at Williams got it wrong and thought that a visiting postman looked a bit like Sutil, or they confused Sutil with Hulkenberg (or some such unlikely idea) it would be very silly indeed if the German driver were not working REALLY hard at the moment to secure his future in F1. Sutil is out of contract at the end of the year and although he does not like being called a pay-driver, there is little doubt that his presence at the Silverstone team is somehow related to a large wedge of cash that comes in from Medion computers. Whether it comes as part of the deal, or because of the deal, is really not relevant. Sutil’s presence means that the team makes money.
No-one has ever doubted that Sutil is quick, but he is not famous for his technical abilities and he has done himself no favours at all getting involved in a messy and, by all accounts, rather nasty nightclub fight in China. Exactly what happened on Sunday night after the Chinese GP is disputed but Lotus Renault GP co-owner Eric Lux has some nasty scars on his neck and seems to think that Sutil is responsible for them.
At the same time, the presence of Nico Hulkenberg as reserve driver in the team is ominous at best. Paul di Resta is a Mercedes-Benz driver and thus his presence is very desirable for the team. Mercedes needs to have someone lined up for the day when Michael Schumacher will retire (which has to come, sooner or later). Di Resta looks like being that man. Hulkenberg joined Force India last year after a year racing at Williams. He is unlikely to have agreed to such a deal unless there were specific agreements relating 2012. The team has a record of doing such deals, notably with Tonio Liuzzi, who served a period as test driver before graduating into the race team. Admittedly, that contract was not fully respected but one would imagine that Hulkenberg’s then manager – Willy Weber no less – would not have negotiated a bum deal for his client.
The only other possible explanation is that Sutil was at Williams looking for Kimi Raikkonen…
No chance Grosjean at Williams for 2012?
LOL Joe “The only other possible explanation is that Sutil was at Williams looking for Kimi Raikkonen…”
Immediately after reading what Sutil’s manager had said, I put it down to either wanting to press the picture of Sutil not being a Pay driver, or possibly as a sort of message to potential other teams, that he is still available, if they are interested.
Isn’t Grosjean going to end up in a Renault surely next year? But at whose expense? Senna or Petrov? And where does that leave Kubica assuming he is fit to drive? A bit of a headache for Eric Boullier !
Whoever Williams gets should bring a lot of development capability to the team. In their position, it makes far more sense to have a driver that can make the car a second faster, even if he’s three-tenths off whatever the car can do (a de la Rosa or a Heidfeld, for example). Get one driver for the pace or the money (or both, in the case of Sutil), and one driver that will make the car faster for both drivers.
While Barrichello seems to be a good man for the job, I am starting to think that he might not be going about it the right way, even if his suggestions and development ideas are on point. It just seems like, from my perspective as a reader of various media, that he simply doesn’t get on well with the team. Whether it’s the mechanics on his side, the engineers or the management that aren’t happy with his public comments, but it just doesn’t seem like things are working harmoniously there at the moment.
Someone like Heidfeld would probably be a good choice, as he’d quietly get the job done, only whispering audibly enough for the engineers to hear and help them get the job done. I’ve often thought that Heidfeld just matches the pace of his teammate. Put him alongside a star and he’ll provide stellar times, but put him beside an average pay-driver, and he’ll provide average performances. Williams would just need to extract as much development advice from him, and put someone in the other car to push him to achieve good results. Heidfeld seemed to do a pretty good job in 2005 for them when he wasn’t injured…
Joe,
I think I missed something with the Kimi comment, can you elaborate?
Much as I’d love to see Kimi back in F1 I think those days are over, he was probably visiting the Williams Facility to see the new sportscar plans.
Sutil – he’s had a fair crack at F1, time to step aside and let some of the newbies have a shot.
My prediction for the Williams line up next year is Senna and Maldonado. Force India will be Di Resta and Hulkenberg, Renault, Petrov and Kubica, Grosjean could pop up in an HRT, or Caterham at some point. Engine deal dependent of course.
Jon Wilde,
Your predictions live up to your name.
No chance of Lux/Renault employing Sutil then?
Paul di Resta is very media friendly and manages his anger, or is it Mr Lux who needs anger management?
Either way who cares…
Brett Sinclair,
Media friendly? Hmm. I think there is some work to be done there.
All this cyber-noise means one thing: Rubens is out and there will be a replacement driver. Can’t wait. Williams deserve better.
If you’re crap at answering questions (or perhaps very good) you answer an awkward question with a stupid diversional question.
Just ask any politician who has secured a seat in parliament.
Josh,
You are talking in riddles. Did you consider politics?
Sutil’s stock has dropped in my view over the past few years, the odd moment of impressiveness outweighed by too many mediocre performances. Fisi out doing him in 09 before his swansong at Ferrari really didn’t help and incidents in nightclubs are never good for a driver and their teams image.
Di Resta’s arrival made keeping his job even harder. Paul has been a class act in every possible way, which comes as little surprise to me. I’d interested to know if the team rate his abilities at setting up and developing the car better than Sutil (any idea Joe?), because if so, the only reason to keep Sutil IMO would be money when you’ve got what looked a good prospect in Hulk waiting in the wings.
As for Williams, I love that team (you start watching F1 in britain in 1991 and that tends to happen!), and I can’t bear to see them struggling as they are. If they had Maldanado and Sutil as a line up, I can’t see them getting far even if the car does dramatically improve. Do they need the extra $10m (I think) Sutil brings? If not they could always pick up whoever looses out in the LRGP merry-go-round. Petrov I don’t really rate, but Bruno I like. Although Senna in a Williams Renault in that colour scheme would be slightly weird! Who knows, Kubica might be available, LRGP want an answer on his return in the next couple of months. I would like to see Grosjean racing soon as well.
Considering Lenovo dumped Williams after 2008 to go to McLaren, it would be ironic if they ended up back there under their newly-acquired guise of Medion.
actually, i have always doubted that sutil is not quick, i’ve always thought that he was over-rated largely based on some lucky wet races, but gets in way too many stupid accidents without being quick enough to justify being on the edge. now he’s probably one of the most anonymous drivers in the field and is being shown up by a rookie, albeit reasonably talented.
Any idea Joe if Mallaya wants out? Kingfisher Airlines needs to raise a lot of cash according to it’s auditors
Robert,
The one thing that Mallya can always find is money. No-one could be stupid enough to have wasted the kind of money he has. At least, I hope not…
Force India will run Paul DiResta and Nico Hulkenberg in 2012. I think Sutil will be left without an F1 drive and will probably become Mercedes reserve driver.
As for Williams I would get Heikki Kovalainen, he’s experienced, fast, good at developing a car and he’s still quite young. I would then put a pay driver in the second car which would likely be Pastor Maldonado.
Denis,
Except that Heikki Kovalainen is under contract at Team Lotus.
Now, why don’t we send Adrian Sutil down to Grove in a Mr Whippy van. If Kimi is there, he’s sure to respond and we’ll know for sure what’s going on.
To the Barachello apologists, how much input must he be bringing to the team if the car is still rubbish? Or is it a sign of the weakness of the technnical team?
Malcolm, one of the reasons why Heidfeld was dropped by Renault was because it was felt by the management that he wasn’t leading the team as well as they had expected him to. In the light of that, I can’t see why Williams would want to take on his services with that precise role in mind. I’ve always rated Heidfeld as a driver, but his performances this year have shown that he doesn’t have what it takes to lead a team during a performance slump, unfortunately.
@James
I’m not sure Grosjean can muster up the same amount of sponsorship money that either Senna or Petrov are able to, so I don’t see him in a Renault on Sundays in 2012 at all.
Boullier is his manager though, so whether he wants to ‘lease’ out Grosjean to another team (Williams?) for the season and try to get him a full-time drive in 2013 is another matter.
In any case (for Sutil) I believe it’s a Williams or a benching.
Sutil is not famous for his technical abilities? I’ll take your word but I am curious. Which drivers are good technically, average or below par?
“The only other possible explanation is that Sutil was at Williams looking for Kimi Raikkonen…”
Or that Kimi Raikkonen’s mailman was looking for him.
“Isn’t Grosjean going to end up in a Renault surely next year?”
Not necessarily – he could wind up in a Renault-powered team. In fact, he could end up at any team; the French want a French driver in the sport, but nowhere is there the prerequisite that the French driver race for a French team. In fact, if a Frenchman got into the sport with no assistance from the taskforce put in place by Fillon, then the taskforce would be happy.
“Senna or Petrov?”
If the situation at The Team Formerly Known As Renault is as messy and as convoluted as Joe described a few days ago, then it makes sense to take Senna and Petrov because they bring the most money to pay off the likes of Vladimir Anontov. There was that rumour that Genii would replace Petrov with Grosjean because it would make the engine deal with Renault cheaper, but Petrov’s sponsorship is worth more than an engine deal, so replacing him with Grosjean for a subsidy makes no sense.
@James
Grojean at Renault isn’t as likely as you make out. He has a french connection and hence Renault would want him in F1. Whether that means in Renault OR in say a Williams with reduced Renault charging less for their engines to Williams. Not unlikely and probably written into the contract somewhere. It has happened many times in the past and some rather recently.
Senna also has money. And it has been noted that the Brazil market is a better place than the Russian market in terms of potential for the brands LRGP (horrible name) want to push.
Petrov brings money. Russian money. And has a contract. But the contract was done in 2010 when most thought he wouldn’t be here in 2011. The contract most probably has loop holes and contract brakes and exceptions. He brings money and that was his only chance to stay in f1. And most probably be in F1 ever again in his life. He took it. The money probably isn’t the best if being compared with someone like Senna. And Senna is already matching performances (see lap times in race) very quickly. If things continue Petrov lacks the money AND experience/speed, but could still be there depending on contract and also who the other driver is. If Senna is the other driver, (like currently), then that all doesn’t matter. A final idea is that he may be loaned out to a smaller team, to get experience and the smaller team would be a slightly more experienced driver with sponsorhsip potential. Reanult can them bring him back in 2014 when he’s ready to play a good number 2 to whomever and see what is happening then.
Grojean as I said above is french and engine connections could make either Renault (who now pays for customer engines) or Williams save a bit of money by getting cheaper engines. (not confirmed but quite likely something like this could be written in to engine contracts).
Kubica. IF he fighting fit, IF he is able to race to the same level as he was IF he can’t get a contract somewhere better IF if still wants to do F1 IF renault wants him over money (which he has none of) and IF he can get a contract with Renault then he could be there. Lots of ifs there. Only needs to fail at one of those to not get it. May be fit but lacking the speed. May have the speed but Renault lacks the money (as joe as posted before). etc…
My thoughts…
MOST LIKELY
Senna
Petrov
(Kubica not at full pace/fighting fit, Grojean at Williams)
SOMEWHAT UNLIKELY BUT FEASIBLE
Grojean
Petrov
(Kubica as above, Senna at Williams)
DARK CHOICE
Senna
Grojean
(kubcai as above, petrov elsewhere or out)
REALLY SO VERY UNLIKELY NOW AS WEIRD AS THAT WOULD SEEM 8 MONTHS AGO
kubica
petrov
(Senna and Grojean have shown too much now. Senna has proven himself to at least be a match for petrov within 2 races. Grosjean as won GP2. Both have money connections. they should both most probably get a seat somewhere in the midfeild. They have what all teams want, a bit of experience, (tiny bt in Grojeans case), lots of money, and a rather generous lump of raw speed).
It seems to me that Sutil + Maldonado would be suicidal for Williams. Taking two pay drivers is surely the last gasp of a dying team. Maldonado is quick but can’t seem to hack it consistently and while Sutil is not without merit, a team of those 2 is singularly one dimensional in terms of overall contribution to the team. I honestly can’t see Kimi bothering, or if he did, making any sort of worthwhile contribution unless by some miracle the car is vaguely competitive.
Quite honestly, their best option is Rubens. When the car was alright at the end of last season he was consistently in the top 10 and scoring points, and he continues to prove in one-off situations this season that he’s still got it. As for how he is with the team, not long ago all everyone said was that they loved him for his efforts and input. Now it seems that Adam Parr is pulling the strings, things have changed. It’s clear to me that Parr is a bean counter and his interest is more in the team turning a profit than turning a point. Perhaps that’s fair enough, he’s doing what he needs to do to keep the organisation above water, but its sad that arguably the most “racey” of racing teams has come to this.
Rubens still has the speed, the sparkle and the energy. Plus he has the skills and knowledge that if they can put it all to work, might conceivably see the team turn the corner. Squandering that would be suicide in my opinion, and make the flotation just a final chapter in the death of this great team.
Good point about Heidfeld above, so far as I can see, the only option of Williams want to make improvements is Rubens or Heidi as an alternative. I want it to be Rubens because I love the man and he’s a living legend, but Heidi would be a good choice too.
Slightly off topic Joe, but do you have any insight or views on the stroy floating around today that Button only wants to sign a one year deal with McLaren for 2012 as he has his eye on a Ferrari drive for 2013 when Massa will be out of contract?
Jerry,
I have heard it. It does not make much sense to me, but maybe Jenson thinks he could go to Maranello and beat Fernando.
I still think that Heidfeld is the best for Williams as he certainly is as quick as Sutil.And the two other options ( Ricciardo and Grosjean ) are simple not mature enough.That said only from the drivers point of view and not all the
other money considerations.Unfortunately that plays a big role stiil also at Williams thought they sorted that bit when going public.I hope not that Kimi is
coming back at that note so that his return as a former champion wil convince
sponsors.It only can end as a disaster as Kimi does not have the determination of Michael and to be in the focus of critics day in day out.
How about, Kimi and Maldonado at Williams, Hulk and PDR at FI, and Sutill takes his cash to Team Lotus? Trulli is a bit long in the tooth now, Lotus will be continuing to move forwards and could do with the money, and as pay drivers go, Adrian isn’t that bad.
Hmmm this is an interesting puzzle we have. Too many drivers for not enough seats…
I think it’s safe to say that Robert Kubica will not be fit to drive next year. He’s sensible enough not to rush a recovery as big as the one he’s on and Renault can’t afford to take a risk and end his career early. He’ll jump into the car in 2013 most likely, or maybe part-way through 2012.
Petrov is going nowhere. The Russian GP plans are going forward and all those lovely sponsorship deals are keeping him in place.
That leaves Renault with Senna or Grosjean. I’d take Senna. Grosjean is good, but Senna is there with him and has cash on hand too. Grosjean might be worth a Friday practice slot for now to see if he’s ready for take two at F1.
Williams will obviously keep Maldonado for the money.
Other than that, I reckon we’ll see Rubens there for one more year. He’s not ready to retire. If he moves over, it would have to be for a super driver and maybe Williams are actively trying top get Kimi.
Sutil will end up a third driver somewhere with Hulk in the second Force India beside Di Resta.
“Jon Wilde,
Your predictions live up to your name.”
Bazinga!
It’s nice to have at least one good smile a day and the “Looking for Kimi Raikkonen” line was my broad grin for the day…
Thanks Joe…
@ joe
Wanna bet?
Jon Wilde,
I learned long ago not to bet on motor racing, in any shape or form.
http://f1sa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31106:f1–eric-boullier-clouds-petrov-future-in-formula-1-with-exit-clause-talk&catid=1:f1&Itemid=157
!!!!! I know Boullier isn’t the quietest person in the paddock (e.g. KIMI RAIKKONEN wants us !!!! in 2010) BUT mentioning escape clauses when you don’t have to at all is weird.
This is clearly an ominous sign for atleast Petrov to improve or be out. Ferrari didn’t really talk of exit clauses before Kimi went nor did Mallaya mention anything like this before Liuzzi was dumped.
While it is still speculation and nothing is confirmed, it sends a very strong message for the team principle to be talking about not only drivers he is considering, but also that he is considering breaking the contract of a contracted driver.
Listen the money talks and do not underestimated strong Dutch background of Williams. Beside Maldonado could be Giedo van der Garde!
That would require someone putting their hand in their pocket and in F1 the Dutch sponsors have not been famous for doing that…
Well he’s already beaten/outsmarted Hamilton….. and no one thought he’d get close to him at Mcl. I can understand why he’d want to face the (far bigger) challenge of taking on Alonso at Ferrari. Added to the obvious allure of driving for Ferrari. Since a Red Bull seat seems unlikely for him and since Red Bull/Newey/Vettel combo likely to remain unbeatable what else does a driver do to further establish his (often belittled/derided) talents.
also one wonders ifthere is perhaps something left to prove against Alonso from the old days when Flav dumped him for Fred?
Rob
Exactly how are you coming to your conclusions?
“Well he’s already beaten/outsmarted Hamilton”
240/214 Pts Last year in Hamiltons favour.
This season only 9 points between them and its not over yet.
Button is better than I gave him credit for at Brawn and going against Hamilton has certainly proved he was worthy of his WDC. But your conclusion doesn’t stack up yet.
As for the “far bigger challenge” of Alonso. Remind me how he did against a rookie Hamilton in the same car and how he reacted to that?
The seat Button has now is probably the best out there for him. He’d be a No.2 at RB (unofficially) or Ferrari (officially). At McLaren he’s got equal status, fully allowed to fight for wins against his team mate, has a race winning car every season (at some point) and has the best benchmark in his team mate (which is improving his own abilities). The only downside of working for McLaren seems to be the amount of time the drivers spend doing promo work.