Twenty two years ago I went on the Paris-Dakar Rally, a glittering African adventure that, at that time, went through some of the poorest countries in the world. It was an extraordinary experience, but it was not always easy.
“Have you ever tried to eat when you are surrounded by scrawny, underfed children?” I wrote. “One of the overriding aspects of the Dakar is that there are so many children out there in the desert and wherever you go they ask you for two things: a “bic” or a “cadeau”. On the Dakar you learn the value of little things like biros. If a kid has a biro they can learn to write. Ari Vatanen speaks of being humbled by the event, and unless you have no heart at all, you understand. For me the best thing about the event was the faces of the kids when they had been given half a tin of rabbit stew or a plasticised piece of cake. They were amazed and joyful.
“The organisers of the rally take a lot of flak for taking a bunch of rich playthings into some of the poorest countries in the world and so each year they donate things – like a new water pump – to help out the locals. Not that private enterprise is dead. Far from it. The day the rally comes to town is the biggest day of the year and prices are hiked to amazing levels. It is amazing what people will pay for things.”
It is not surprising that some are now questioning the morality of Formula 1 going to India. The local Reuters man has written a thoughtful and emotive piece about the circus coming to town.
“Within the circuit grounds, where shiny Mercedes Benz display cars are parked, poor Indian women used brushes and their hands to sweep dust and stones from an access road, their children playing nearby,” he wrote. “In nearby Salarpur village, Meera, who is illiterate and can only guess her age, held a sick child in her arms. He has suffered malaria twice. Rubbish lay in ponds of stagnant water. A young calf grazed on garbage.
‘I don’t understand this concept of cars racing for entertainment,’ she said. ‘People pay money to watch this? Like a movie?’
“Nearby, workers sprayed the manicured lawns around the F1 track with water in last minute preparations. Meera, who has electricity for four hours a day, must walk half an hour to the nearest water pump.”
No-one doubts that this is the case, but for most of the people in the Formula 1 world, the hope is that the event will create economic growth and that, in turn, will improve the lives of the poor.
Formula One comes to India because of the vast developing market of young consumers. India has one of the fastest growing economies in the world, with a growth rate last year of 8.3 percent. It is on its way to becoming a globally important consumer economy. According to the consulting firm McKinsey, the Indian middle classes are now estimated to number more than 50 million people and they are attuned to Western culture. In 2006, 22 percent of Indians lived under the poverty line, but the country is growing so fast that the government’s aim is to eradicate all poverty by 2020. Growth is all about confidence and successful international events give a country confidence and national pride. It shows the world that the country can compete on the global stage. The international coverage of the F1 race will help the already growing Indian tourist business. Today that is the country’s largest service industry, responsible for 6.23 percent to the national GDP and 8.78 percent of the total employment in India. In 2010 more than 17.9 million visitors arrived in India and the number is growing at an impressive rate each year.
The Indian Grand Prix is not a government project. It is funded entirely by Jaypee Industries, a private conglomerate. There is little chance that Jaypee will recover the investment being made in the race, but that was never the idea. Jaypee is aiming make money from the real estate around the track by building a city for the future: Jaypee Sports City. This will house a million people.
The English have a proverb that is apposite in the circumstances. “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”.
Yes, it seems odd to have the glittering F1 world next to poor villages, but in the long term it could be a better solution than anything that the government has to offer…
The Jaypee Sports City is a grand vision, but if it all works according to plan it will create opportunities for everyone in the region. Perhaps even in Salarpur.
That may be naive because of the inequalities that exist in India. The country has suffered in recent times from a string of corruption scandals and there is no shortage of whispers in F1 circles of payments that have had to be made to get things done.
Go to Google and search the words “India” and “Corruption” and you will read some startling stuff.
“A 2005 study conducted by Transparency International in India found that more than 55% of Indians had first-hand experience of paying bribes or influence peddling to get jobs done in public offices successfully,” it says. “Transparency International estimates that truckers pay US$5 billion in bribes annually. In 2010 India was ranked 87th out of 178 countries in Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index.”
More shocking still is another paragraph, further down the article.
“India tops the list for black money in the entire world with almost US$1,456 billion in Swiss banks. According to the data provided by the Swiss Banking Association Report (2006), India has more black money than the rest of the world combined. Indian-owned Swiss bank account assets are worth 13 times the country’s national debt.”
One can only wonder what might happen in India if all that money (or even just the tax due on it) was spent trying to improve the infrastructure, the housing, education and healthcare of India.
Senior Bharatiya Janata Party leader L K Advani said this week that he believed that scams dogging the government are tarnishing India’s image abroad.
He is probably right.
F1 can do nothing about this sort of thing. F1 is in India to make money, but if in doing so it can contribute to a better life for all Indians then all well and good.
Fascinating. Great read. Thank you, Joe…
Something must be wrong in a country with one of the world’s largest economies, and no motorways (not to mention any form of workable government). It’s a truly amazing country, unfortunately for mostly the wrong reasons.
Another interesting read. I also like to look at things in a positive way, focus at the opportunities rather than the downside of things (without ever forgetting those).
Well said Joe….
I was fearful that these were the type of posts that would come from you when you got here and I have not been proven wrong. But these facts cannot be farther from the truth. Corruption has fed on much of India’s wealth and unless the people themselves question their integrity, it will remain a rot to India’s prosperity.
I am proud of my country and of the fact that the F1 circus is finally visiting here. It is a sign of recognition that India has arrived on the international map. However, it still remains to be seen if India will rise above all these scandals and emerge as strong as any other developed country on this planet.
I will be arriving in Delhi soon Joe. Hopefully, I can enjoy the race and get a few autographs (particularly from a certain Herr Schumacher!)
Cheers Joe,
Aneesh
Sphinx,
I too hope that India will emerge from this rot. Some of your fellow countrymen have resorted to abuse as a result of my comment. It is nice to hear someone who can face up to the realities about his country and wants things to change, rather than attacking anyone who dares mention such things.
“Yes, it seems odd to have the glittering F1 world next to poor villages, but in the long term it could be a better solution than anything that the government has to offer…”
Really?
A much better solution for India would have been to spend these $200M on something that country urgently needs right now, like water and waste treatment facilities, power plants, housing, real roads, industrial infrastructure and so on, it’s a long list. Instead Indian “businessmen” decide to build yet another money loosing race track…
Let’s face it, F1 preys on pathetic, insecure (and often corrupt) nations to channel money back to the UK, that’s the essence of F1 in one sentence.
Yes…
So, given the announcement that is coming in an hour or two, you are saying that the United States is “pathetic, insecure (and often corrupt)”.
The reuters reporter should have asked those ladies who were sweeping the road about their opinion of the F1 circus coming to town. I’m willing to bet that their response would be cautiously positive, an opportunity to make some extra dough, perhaps to help with their child’s school costs. In twenty years time we might hear about an Indian F1 star who may have been inspired by one of those shiny new Mercs, even from behind a fence.
Joe, nice write-up. You amaze me! I thought you will be always be critical about anything India and Indians.
The hope with which these things are done today is that it will create opportunities for the future generations. Yes, there are issues like poverty, corruption, etc, etc. Which country can claim they dont/never will have issues now or in the future? With the economies slowing down, its going to impossible to hide poverty across the globe.
In the case of India, it can never wipe out poverty (it very hard to control population here, a very sensitive issue too- more people, more requirements, little money). In this case, the parallel objective is and should be to create opportunities and more opportunities. Narain and Karun have come from very wealthy/influential families. Having more tracks, more local teams may help channel talents. This is what has happened elsewhere. Who knows, India may see a slumdog-driver in the future? Its all done with a hope.
The present generation is wasting its talent. The working population (aged between 18-55) is the largest in the world. Drug abuse and life-style habits is going from bad to worse. There are more kids than old people in India today. Atleast that’s my feeling.
If there more opportunities to extract n make good use of it, it is better.
Goks,
So nice to be pre-judged all the time…
Interesting read Joe thanks.
Addressing the obvious problems that this fascinating country has but from a positive point of view.
joesaward
Yes…
So, given the announcement that is coming in an hour or two, you are saying that the United States is “pathetic, insecure (and often corrupt)”.
Yes ur right.
US is “pathetic, insecure (and often corrupt)”.
Will see next recession in near future.
Seep,
I think you may be deeply deluded.
Thank you. Beautifully constructed and written Joe. I love the way you put F1 into the context surrounding it.
Fantastic article Joe. India is struggling to overcome the vast gap between rich and poor, but it will take time. For now anything that helps the Indian economy will help, in some small way at least.
50 millions middle class that’s more or less a 3% of India population. Not much
50 million customer is 50 million customers
Not sure I’d cite the Paris-Dakar Rally as being an engine for growth for the locals…
I’m one of the people who feels uneasy watching F1 flaunt its thing amid such poverty. It doesn’t sit well with me.
Anyone know how many $1/day Indian labourers died during construction of the circuit? Does anyone there even care?
Gareth,
Did I cite the Paris-Dakar as an engine fro growth? No.
I was writing an extended post re the unfathomable divides of Indian culture when I decided there was no point. Every extreme and every point in between is there to be found. Wonder.
That’s the utopian view, anyway. In reality the building of a very high end megalopolis exaggerates the differences in money between the rich, served by the new entity, and the dog-dirt poor. Basic sociology: the rich get richer, the rest get left further behind.
Almost 46 million people in the United States rely on food stamps, that’s roughly 15% of the population, and they’re getting 2 GPs.
But one of the ways countries can acquire foreign currency is to attract tourists, Malaysia for instance gathered US$144 million in foreign exchange according to a Universiti of Malaya study, India will probably not be too far behind that figure, so even if the race is totally privately funded, the state will benefit heavily from it.
Karen… You have your Bernie mask on again. Or is it vice versa?
Nice article Joe with a truly eye-popping revelation about the Swiss banking for such a poor couontry. Indian “businessmen” seem to not have much sense of national philanthropy, eh? I have to give you credit for always having a positive attitude about these things. While I will almost certainly never attend one of the F1 races in Asia or the Middle East I can understand why they happen, a simple case of supply and demand. The countries want the races to validate their global ascendency and Bernie likes the smell of money,even with the scent of curry and corruption on it.
I guess holding the common wealth games there and the World Cup in South Africa, then Brazil were evidence of the respective organizers preying on pathetic, insecure nations?
Anyway Joe, I’m all for developing countries punching above their weight. If they can manage to garner the rights to hold a global event my hats off to them and I hope it’s executed well (as the World Cup in SA went by fine). It’s sad that the Paris Dakar rally now takes place in South America though. What are your thoughts on that? I find it pretty obnoxious that they didn’t bother to change the name.
Thanks, Joe.
I see your point, but is it so much different than tourists that vacation in poorer countries with beautiful resort areas while the surrounding areas are extremely poor and poverty ridden? Usually the locals are banned from accessing the tourists.
Well two out of three ain’t bad…
Joe, let’s not over state the importance of F1. It’s entertainment. There will be no social benefits to F1 being there. You and the rest of the media will sit in some beautiful hotels and suddenly feel the need to write a social story and think you’ve done your bit to highlight India’s poverty. Thanks – but we already know it. Like one of your readers points out, the money would have been better spent on infrastracture as that will have benefited the broader population more equitably. The GP is run by a rich corrupt upper class that will take advantage of the poor in the surrounding areas. It’s clear that you don’t properly understand the caste system in India… Nothing will change because of the Grand Prix being there.
PM
I accept that I do not understand the caste system of India, but does this give one lot of people the right to steal the country’s wealth from others who are less fortunate? I object to your suggestion that we F1 media are going through the motions. You have no idea what it is like to be in the F1 media. Similarly, you obviously have no idea about the social benefits that F1 brings. Still, at least you have the balls to put your name and real email address to your criticism, unlike a number of your fellow countrymen who have simply left me abusive messages. What a bunch of spineless w*nkers.
I found it difficult to determin where the Reuters bit ended and yours started. Perhaps some italics for quotes?
Haha yeah New Jersey you don’t get much more corrupt insecure and pathetic than that lol
India is the world’s largest democracy, it is amazing in a way that democracy has arisen after partition. Whilst red tape is a way of life, the result is chaos.
Sadly it would need a dictatorship to impose order and build proper roads because there is no incentive to do so while people are able to muddle along in what is the residue of the British system of governance. The railways are a miracle of survival in India and a huge employer. It is perhaps because of the existence of the British built railways that roads have not come into consideration having been left mainly as they were 50 or more years ago, built for ox carts now used by large (but fragile) trucks and suicidal bus drivers.
160,000 people die on India’s roads every year and having just watched the first episode of the “Ice road truckers Deadliest roads” I can see why. By chance driving for Jaypee, with loads of cement for a major dam project up in the mountain foothills. Just getting out of Delhi, two collisions and a near lynching, was enough to make one very experienced trucker give up and go home in a state of nervous exhaustion. (apparently if you drive from a side road, into the side of a truck it’s the truck driver’s fault if he is not Indian) It is very unclear if there is any kind of road law, highway code etc at all, let alone a driving test.
Had India been a German colony maybe they would have a great system of autobahns and good drivers, instead of railways.
I tend to think that the increasing GDP of India will widen the gap between the middle classes and the poor. It is the educated middle classes that are prospering, while there is a huge mass of ultra poor who have literally nothing. However the ingenuity and enterprise of these people who manage to scrape an existence, is simply amazing. If they ever get water, schools and roads they will take over the world.
Ok Joe please go a mile away from the track into the countryside which was farms and see what they are gaining from F1. It is disturbing to hear that even more land is to be grabbed to built this sports city, please find out where the people are that used to live where the track is, obviously I mean find out from the people and not Jaypee or FIA staff. No it’s not your job to be a general news reporter, but this affects how we feel about F1 and it’s exploitation of host countries.
Karen,
what a load of utter. My reckoning is you have to earn – above the line – GBP £160,000 p.a. before you are a net contributor here, post deductibles. I feel less bad now for being “taken to the cleaners” for the bills i got. So, food stamps, shmamps. Check the state benefit system which holds up at last 60% of our populous. Do you know about the trillion dollars a week the USA is lending us, the “EU”, to stop Berlin repossessing what they thought they had? Yeah, the begging bowl is out. But what you forget, or never knew, is that a guy called Wriston got us all through the last (oil) crisis by moving printed dollars. Look, this is not against you, not in any way, just there are only two outfits who have a clue, the Bundesbank, and the Federal Reserve, Amusingly one of those genetically links to an old and very real friend of mine’s history. I think we will do better than the funeral marchers sell their story on. Or the protestors without a protest. Genuinely, and well meant, yours – john
Sorrym Karen, i was awful then, but another take,
how can you criticize the US for having families on food stamps, when the absolute majority here live on benefits?
F1 is in India to make money for F1, period. It’s all nice to believe that you are doing some good for the people by holding a race, but the reality….well in my opinion it’s pretty wide of the mark. The middle class there is tiny. Yeah 50 million is a lot of people, but in “normal” terms comparable to the rest of the country it is but a tiny fraction (3% or so??).
Those numbers of only 22% being below the poverty line…..surely that’s impossible, unless the poverty line is being homeless, jobless and dying of malaria.
Sad. Instead F1 should have set up a huge food bank/shelter to help the people of the area.
Very sad…oh and the rich corrupt SOB’s want ANOTHER one too eh?
Jonathan,
You completely miss the point. Fifty million people is 50 million people. The percentage is irrelevant.
As much as I like the Idea of a poverty stricken country getting F1 to boost their economy, I don’t think the people of India will get much out of it. How much of the money generated will go to the people of India? It seems strange that a country that has its own Space program, Movie Industry and now F1 race, cannot afford to feed it’s own people and require the money of wealthier countries to do it for them.
Brett Foster,
Read the post I wrote. It explains very carefully how money will filter down through the system.
The promoters are not going to wander around the local villages handing out wads of cash, but there will be benefits. Anyone who tries to argue that F1 races do not bring financial benefits to a region are simply ill-informed.
Great article, probably one of your best, thanks Joe
I agree that the region will see benefits, but how long for? How long is the deal for the Indian GP to be held? Will it be dropped from the calendar next year or will it be longer. I know that India has some of the biggest fans, and the money from tourism will have an immediate effect but when places like Turkey and Bahrain get dropped, what’s to say that this won’t happen to Indian GP? Keep up the good work by the way
Brett Foster,
Bernie Ecclestone usually does seven year deals and he sticks to them. So it is not going to get dropped next year, unless Jaypee pays off the money that it is committed to paying over the seven year contract.
I really want to see the Indian people do well out of this, but I am a little skeptical at the moment.
Brett Foster,
Time will tell, but there is no doubt that there will be a considerable instant economic impact on the region. Usually this is around $100 million, allowing for all the revenue generated by hotels, restaurants, transportation, shops etc etc. Then there is the publicity value of the event for India. Then there is the increase in the value of the land for Jaypee… All of this makes sense without much argument. The trickle down effect comes firstly from the direct income and then later when Jaypee builds its new city, which will create jobs. There may also be additional tourism as a result of the event. Whatever the case, India is benefiting a great deal.
Joe, There is a big contradiction about India’s growth story. On one hand, the growth and economic liberalization has done more to reduce poverty than any previous government initiatives that expressly aimed to do so. On the other hand, the disparity between the rich and poor has grown and the rich still benefit far more from the growth. What this means is that the net impact of F1 in helping poor people in India will be minuscule, if any. That’s the problem with India. No one in their right mind advocates any return to high handed socialist policies in India, but we Indians are erecting huge symbols of the wealth disparities in India.
What if the development of the F1 track and the surrounding sports complex had made a decent payment to the farmers whose land was taken over, set an example by paying their workers a decent wage and made some infrastructure investment in the neighbouring villages. This would all add up to a very small percentage of the cost of the track and the event itself. Instead, the state government went out of their way to grant the organisers tax concessions (possibly illegally, you would have read about the court case), ensuring that not only will the corporations involved make no direct social investment (which of course would be miraculous) but the government does not receive taxes that could be used for the same.
That’s the problem in India, that the benefit of any such development flows to people in inverse proportion of how badly they need it. And that is why your optimism is misguided, this whole project isn’t going to change that pattern.
That is not to say I oppose the race. As with the Dakar rally, those kids would still be hungry if the race was held elsewhere. It doesn’t just become remarkably insensitive to race expensive cars that burn money next door to poverty, it’s the same if we race several thousand miles away. And we are all complicit in that, I guess if we acknowledge it we may at some point in our lives do a bit to help out. Not just to feed the kid, but to ensure that he can feed himself and doesn’t end up the father of ten hungry kids a few years down the line.
On a different note, there is a tendency among some from my country to jump at any portrayal of India that is at all negative (and any portrayal that isn’t somewhat negative that sense is manifestly false anyway). Sounds like you have been on the receiving end of some of it, I hope you can ignore it and we are not all like that
Karen,
It’s ridiculous, and slightly offensive, to compare the poor in the USA (or the UK) with the poor in India.
Poor people here (USA) are fat.
Poor people in India watch their children starve or die of malaria. They DREAM of being fat.
Hopefully these fancy new circuit facilities will put to good use when the F1 circus isn’t in town. I’m assuming there’s a reliable powers supply, air conditioning, plumbing and refrigeration? It would nice to hear of the facilities being used as a medical centre (F1 garages are clean enough!) or school, rather than sitting idle.
Having lived in Delhi nearly 30 years ago, the sheer disregard for human life still amazes me, though this can be said for most of the developing world. It is astonishing that countries that have their own space programmes can’t see the virtue in ensuring that all of their population is fed.
Surely all of this is true of the Brazilian grand prix. 20 years on, is the verdict that it has helped or hindered Sao Paolo?
Joe,
Thanks for the blog, and one that is thought provoking, and the discussion with your readers. I am glad to see that you kept the comments up, since it provides additional depth to the postings.
Although there may be some trickle down effects from the Indian GP and other such “vanity” projects that seem to have the rationale of boosting national esteem, including the space programs, flashy military hardware and demonstration teams, olympics, world cups, and F1 races or professional sports teams, those that argue that there are opportunity costs pursuing such efforts do have a point. But would that money go to solving some of the societal problems otherwise? Hard to say.
But the mention of the huge amount of Indian money in Swiss banks, illustrates the corruption not just of the government but the extreme degree to which those who have benefited from either their winning the genetic lottery or good fortune of business have chosen to find a shelter to protect their own from what is in part what is viewed as unbearable taxes or other costs, who knows. But had those people not benefited from aspects of how society and the state were structured, even if they once successful often bear a higher tax burden than if they were not as successful? Could that not be said for almost any industry or business?
As to the “pathetic, insecure (and often corrupt)”.governments pursuing F1 races, maybe not all of them come into play when governments pursue landing a GP, but to rule out that it occurs is being a bit myopic. I’d say next year’s GP in texas fits the bill, because if Tavo wasn’t able to land the $25M (?) “subsidy” from a “pathetic, insecure (and often corrupt)”.texas govt. would he have felt secure moving forward with the COTA or trying to land the USGP? And in seeing the current TX govenor trying to pursue the Republican Party nomination for President and way he and his cohort pander to certain interests easily leads one to say yes they are pathetic and insecure, and sometimes corrupt.
Hope that you enjoy your time in India, and are able to see more than the race and share your experiences.
@joesaward
In what way?
@John (other John)
I was quoting a report from the US Department of the Treasury/Federal Reserve Board … What you do with the official US government figures is up to you.
So if you think it’s “a load of utter,” I suggest you call Obama and abuse him instead.
There is no poverty, but your own imagination. There is no man who is lost who cannot say to his neighbor “yes, i want to act”.
Not new ideas.
So all Oxfam and Unicef and for those who like him, Bono, need to do to end world poverty is to get Bernie to take his travelling circus to the poorest countries in the world.
Tim (other Tim),
Try to post intelligent remarks.
i wonder if jaypee have been to sao paulo…
Unaccounted funds are almost like a parallel economy in India, with the politicians leading the way in hoarding it. They’ve talked about it for 2 decades since I’ve followed Indian politics, but nothing will get done.
The region the race is being held in already has tons of symbols of economic activity, it’s the capital of the country after all. I’m curious to see how things have improved since I last visited, but the lack of better roads (more roads would be good too), lack of sufficient public transport options and fickle power supply can’t have been remedied in the last 10 months, from the pace of things in India. And this is all middle class neighbourhoods we’re talking about, not even the poorest of the poor.
I’m excited for the race, but to be honest, if I had to pick a city to host the GP from all the places I’ve lived in India, it wouldn’t have been Delhi by a long shot. The Mumbai / Pune region would have been choice. Mumbai has always outpaced Delhi for infrastructure and Pune (2 hrs away, and connected by a very good highway) is a traditional hub of motor manufacturing (Tata, Bajaj, Kinetic), not to mention a huge following for the sport itself.
Here’s hoping for the best possible race and outcomes from it.
Strange that people critisize businessmen who spend money on an event in the hope they get their investment back. While at the while time promoting their country and region. Bad! Bad! Businessmen!
I have less problem with India (2 drivers, 1 team, poverty ok but largest democracy in the world) than with Abu Dhabi, Bahrein, China, Korea and Turkey (no drivers, no teams). These five races are really a shame for motorsport.
Joe,
This new GP should in theory bring funds from the Teams and there Sponsors. And thereby benefit the local economy. They do have a very large educated middle class, who are working towards degrees in things like Engineering and of course have a fairly strong automotive industry.
So if F1 works in India then we could see new engineers working in F1. As for the corruption, it is pretty bad, if you have travelled there on business, and the roads are pretty mad to drive on – free for all.
But this $200M or what the sum is, is pretty small in comparison to what Cricket and the betting that goes on the games generate each season. If they took a small percentage of this money, then poverty in India would be down a few percentage points.
Joe,
I don’t know what these commenters are talking about. Read any basic book on economics about the “multiplier effect” about what investment can do to a region. This project no doubt includes great investment in transport, housing, along with a huge stimulation to the local economy. And the fact the Indian government isn’t paying a penny towards this, it is all being funded privately, is all the better for Indian taxpayers, whose money can go on all the much needed poverty reduction etc.
The “trickle down” effect is somewhat more debatable as a concept (most people now accept that welfare distribution is necessary to help the poorest in society). But if the government get taxes from profits and plough that money into helping those people, then this could be a huge bonus not only for the area, but the country as a whole.
I am really looking forward to the race.
Joe,
Have been a long time reader of your blog, perhaps this is the first time I’m commenting.
To start with, I reside in India and I really hate when people especially the western media(not just f1 media) make fun of us and India. Yes we know there is poverty all around us, but does not mean everyone who live here is poor or extremely rich! I represent that so called middle class of yours and trust me we do our bit for the poor.
Talking about poverty, I would strongly recommend you giving a thought towards how EU is doing these days and US counting days for the extended recession to come by them. I read articles about how one country(namely Germany) is holding nearly half of the countries from going kaput.
The issue with the western world is that they don’t agree that their tail’s on fire.
We here in India, irrespective of our economic status enjoy good life with whatever we have. We believe in relationship more than money. Have you ever tried comparing divorce rate in the West against divorce rate in India? You will see a huge difference there.
My request to you and all the people in the western media fraternity is that don’t stereotype us or as for that matter any country. Every human and country are unique and I’d say let’s just respect that rather than criticize.
Manish,
I am not making fun of anyone. I am simply trying to look at the question in a dispassionate way. I am not criticising, but rather simply presenting facts. This seems to be something that is viewed by some Indians as an attack on their nation and culture. It isn’t. Responding with remarks about the West such as “their tails being on fire” only underlines the defensiveness. Oddly enough, we in the crumbling West also enjoy a very good life with whatever we have and the different nations find different ways of dealing with their poor (some more successfully than others).
And regarding divorce rates, I think your analysis is not fully developed. The situation in the West is due to the breakdown of traditional social structures, that started in the 1960s. I think that social scientists would argue that the important statistic is not the number of divorces but rather the number of happy marriages, or whether couples are simply still married because society does not allow them to divorce.
My request to you, therefore, is to read what is written carefully and don’t stereotype the Western media. We are not all the same and we are not all criticising India.
India is rising and Joe is actually the first journi to take a balanced look at things. If I may add statistics and India are two things I dont prefer together.
Agri income cannot be taxed as per constitution, people under report their earnings from a small shop to a huge MNC. If Indians are truly honest and disclose all the gold we have then our reseves will be the strongest.
Corruption is blatant and widespread. Every1 says laws are required to curb it. I say a common mans ethod need to change. F1 has got to accept us and v are taking strides to improve every passing day.
Karen,
be careful with official quotes. The other day when i asked is anyone knew a fair bio of Balestre, Joe usefully pointed out likely no-one wants to know. But then there’s no bio either of the man whose downfall created the current banking settlement system in Europe, which is currently a log jam. Even obvious ones, like who created the mortgage bond industry (nice guy, still around) are ignored, wholesale, in the press. Incidentally, i was joking about the Fed Reserve. It has shareholders who are old line english merchant houses. Not relevant any more, just a fun thing with history.
My point is beware how numbers are manipulated. Numbers are not facts, even when they are in your account. Just think hot potato and pass it on, all a game of musical chairs. Just a bit more serious lately.
I have a mate who looks a bit like Obama, if you squint, any good?
I was only having a bit of fun with that six degrees of separation game. I don’t actually play that for real. But what i learned, growing up with kiddos who could trounce me on any connexion game, by infinite margin, is absolutely never ever think the brass plate name is why someone is successful. Oh, i’m, a scratched record, but human capital is what counts, what made India richer than any other place for most of history.
You’d (I hope) laugh heartily at the put downs i have received in real life when trying to connect the dots. (on offer, if i can translate them) It really helps to have no ego when clambering those walls, but then you also know i have an outlandish sized ego. So that’s check mate with me
Michael Winner voice on, “It’s only an advertising deal”
best from me – john
Sorry, Karen, for clarity, there exist more than one Fed Reserve. I was referring to the NY one. The other reserve banks have consistently produced excellent criticism of the current problem.
for Manish and Joe, and anyone else who worries over such things,
I was blessed with a childhood which was exceptionally untroubled, happy though as a child you don’t have that kind of self reflection, to which i owe just about anything which matters. They did separate, divorce was socially and religiously impossible, and to be honest they wanted to hang on. But that wasn’t anyone’s actual fault. When they did split, or start splitting, i was at school. I think that year maybe half of my [could have been my whole year] had their parents divorce. Made a bunch of nice boys into rebels. I could joke that my pals’ dads ran off with their secretaries, but mine married his, so avoided that mistake. The real reason is my dad was a lost boy when his big bro passed, his composure and insight just evaporated. Big brother had protected him. Without his “krisha” (roof) you just had a scared child again. Not what my mom signed up for, or had ability to deal with.
Divorce stats are just rubbish, in this context. But what does really matter is the generation who have not even been brought up, because there was no commitment from their parents. This emotional strain is a complete disaster for the economy, but what is far worse is the breakdown of being able to walk your street, and basic trust. (this is one thing you can act upon, just by talking to “strangers”) Possibly the best thing in my childhood, was being able to go almost anywhere, i was taken in by neighbors, fed, watered, and returned home. It may be an old song, but i do remember when we did not use the lock on our front door. I still open mine automatically, when there is a knock, not really a brilliant idea in London.
I think these statistics merely reflect the angry surface of something we care for. I have a very dear pen pal in a place where life is considered cheap, but apposite, family is surmount.
This is in a way the same complaint i have about graph theory, which is how someone thought (based on outdated data) that somehow all business stems from a few companies. You see, graph theory simply maps the connections, not how those connections work. If i have only one insight, it would be this: remember how you thought as a child, and act accordingly.
Long made short, if you have values, distill them, and go use them.
I hope the Indian GP is an outstanding success, that way I can freely make fun of it in the same way as anywhere else. Stagecoach bus for ‘Paddock Club’ anyone?
They say, smile and the world smiles with you, cry, and you cry alone.
As for statistics, my God. I don’t think anything on this planet gets abused so much. A fairly simple statistical model is relatively easy to carry out, yet the assumptions and diagnostic checks are pages in length. Each one of those model assumptions has to be checked and checked again before a significant result can be confirmed. If they are not, then a model is only valid for that sample and cannot be applied to the whole population. Many scientists struggle to get through this, I’m not sure – although I suspect – how it works elsewhere. I’m getting married in May and this being the West, statistically the odds of a good marriage are against me, I’ll best go and check up on those assumptions.
Well, I don’t pretend to have any wisdom about what should or should not be done about anything mentioned here. The situation being discussed involves the clash of This and That in ways that overwhelm me. The human condition, and in spades. I can see everyone’s point of view (almost, anyway), which is a reminder to me that very true things are often in conflict with one another.
As an American, I come from a place that is blessed/cursed by having its roots in an idea. The idea is that we must keep two promises. Not one imperative, like God save the Queen, but two of them. It’s Jefferson’s fault. Liberty and Equality. Or you might say Freedom and Fairness. What they failed to teach us in school is that, when push comes to shove, our dual promises naturally conflict. Too much of one and you lose the other one. So we can’t possibly do our duty of keeping both, it’s impossible. The best we can hope for is to keep them in some sort of healthy tension, see if we can at least remember what both of them are. IMO, we’ve been doing a lousy job of it for some years now, worse than before, talking about one promise too much while forgetting the other one. But at least I can understand that, my culture gives me a frame of reference. In the matter of India, I have no clue how people there understand what they’re up against when trying to be whatever they are taught is right, whatever they’re supposed to do by their own lights. Not by my American lights or by your British lights, but by their own Indian lights. (No jokes, please, about the lights not working. Especially from any Brits, since we had your MG’s over here too, thank you very much.)
The main thing I know is that it seems remarkable that all comments said before mine were said on a friggin’ racing blog. How crazy is that? Kudo’s to Joe for starting this, and then even more for letting it continue. I imagine that many (most) would have shut it down.
Carry on everyone, please. Especially those who might actually know something about any of this. I hope to learn something, even if it’s just a little.
Something is very strange today, when The Daily Mail, better known for selling sensationalist trash and crazed politics, has on their front page a tribute to a real computing genius, who i hear has passed. John McCarthy. If you can get them and read them, his original papers on Lambda Calculus are beautiful, and led to many “in jokes” crassly how God invented himself, because there was perfection and deep thought in the ideas. Here’s a more informed tribute: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4387
John (other John)
I had the pleasure of meeting him when I worked at the same place.
No stories, really, just a few conversations. Seemed like a man, not a legend (which is meant as a compliment).
I am excited to see F1 coming to India, but I am not sure if timing is right..not everyone back here is happy with current financial issues.
JJ2691,
my locale once made it to be somehow the lowest income borough of the expanded EU. Because everything is black economy here. We only have the financial center called Canary Wharf within the jurisdiction (no, not their fault), and about what was once and for ten years publicly called out the worst epidemic health risk of the world, by the WHO. Learned nothing, gained new zealot overlords.
Jakub,
forget statistics, it it the heart which is abused most often, when we do not know it.
RShack,
i wish i could go back to my teens, and say “I seem to be having a slight problem with my Parens.”
Not Worthy,
j
Dear Joe,
In my experience, entering into discussions with Indian people about the pros and cons of Indian culture or Indian culture vs Western culture is akin to entering a labyrinth in which the paths are all uphill. Take care…
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/formula-1-meets-poverty/ [...]
Joe, fabulous post.
[...] Source: http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/formula-1-meets-poverty/ [...]