Lotus F1 Team boss Gérard Lopez remains keen to buy Group Lotus, in order to develop an automotive brand of his own. His F1 team provides an estimated $30-40 million worth of advertising for the Lotus brand and that is currently going to waste as Lotus’s development is stalled following the takeover of Group Lotus’s parent company Proton by DRB-Hicom. The sponsorship agreement between Group Lotus and Lotus F1 Team has been cancelled with Proton agreeing to secure debts that the team has.
There has been much rumouring in recent days about Group Lotus and DRB-Hicom has now announced that it has not decided to sell the Norfolk-based sports car company and says that it does not know the source of speculation about the possible sale of the company to China’s Youngman. DRB-Hicom has also once again denied that it is going to put Group Lotus into administration. In its statement, DRB-Hicom said that it was still supporting Lotus Group “both financially and management-wise” and said that it has “identified one of Proton’s senior management personnel to take up a position in Lotus Group in an effort to strengthen its management”.
The source of the Youngman rumours appears to be documents that were filed at Companies House three days before the announcement that DRB-Hicom was buying Proton from the Malaysian government, when Group Lotus registered a new UK company called Lotus Youngman UK Automotive Company Ltd.
There were also filings with the Bursa Malaysia on April 12 which revealed that a company called Lotus Youngman Automotive Co Ltd has been set up in Malaysia.
Given the DRB-Hicom statement it is fairly clear that any attempt to offload Group Lotus’s debts using administration is not going to happen in the immediate future, which is good news for the staff and sub-contractors in Norfolk, where there were serious fears for the future of the company if it was going to be sold to a Chinese car company.
The “strengthening” of the Group Lotus management is also interesting. The current management remains in place, if only nominally. One of the problems is believed to be that CEO Dany Bahar’s contract, which runs until the the autumn of 2015, features a rumoured minimum annual salary in excess of £1.2 million, plus a range of other benefits, and a termination clause that would require payment in full of the contract. This means that while the Malaysians could get rid of Bahar that would require a very considerable sum of money in settlement.
It is probably worth noting that Group Lotus has been dragged into a legal action by a builder in Norfolk, who recently filed a joint claim against Bahar and Lotus for £92,485, for work done on the Lotus CEO’s residence. Documents filed with the High Court reveal that £375,000 was spent renovating the house, which is rented by Lotus. The documents claim that the work was paid for with a cheque from a Lotus Cars Ltd, but two invoices for extra work, which was directly ordered by Bahar, have been left unpaid, as it seems neither he nor Lotus will pay the bill. There is a counter claim that the work done was sub-standard, but there is little doubt that the whole business is rather embarrassing for the Malaysians, as it would probably have been cheaper and less trouble to buy a large mansion rather than spend such vast sums of money on one that is rented.
In the meantime Lotus has issued a press release with the headline: “Lotus Raises IndyCar Commitment” in which it has announced a reduction in the number of teams linked to Lotus from five to three. As a consequence of this decision, Lotus has made offers to Bryan Herta Autosport and Dreyer & Reinbold Racing to end its IndyCar agreements with them.
The statement follows on from a recent press release that abused various parties (including me), and which result in much hilarity at Group Lotus’s expense. There has yet to be any official apology for this strange outburst, which opened the way for a number of potential legal actions, but it has at least been removed from the company website.
Joe – if the DRB-Hicom press release is the same one that I’ve seen it says “not decided to sell”, which is not the same as “decided not to sell”.
Good spot Angus.
However, I guess English isn’t their first language. I’ve assessed many assignments and exam scripts written by undergraduate South East Asians over the years and they tend to include all the right words …but not necessarily in the right order.
I’m being stalked!
I’ve had similar experiences of undergraduate language, but also quite a bit of experience working with asian use of english in ISO standards. In that context, I’ve found that they can often be “over”-precise with their choice of phrases.
Angus, if I may also blow your cover (I sneakily at least use my real first name!) I think that Bruce Schneier’s blog noted a recent paper on how effective deliberate language mangling may be at preserving anonymity. I was lazy and didn’t read it past a scan, as I have played with the lexicography transcribed off too many deal tapes to unravel my own sillynesses to want to read another practikum. Or maybe I saw it elsewhere, but Bruce would be the obvious go-to for the subject. I’ve admitted as much in passing I think here before, but I do play with terrible grammar in the way one might splash garlic water on oneself, to superstitiously ward off stylistic recognition. Usually I write in American grammar, because that is wherefrom my typical correspondent.
(I also strongly prefer the American formation for written conversational speech, maybe not all the vernacular, but the overall meter of it. I cannot dispel a memory of being accused of “talking Gaelic” to Joe, when this blog was rather less read, so I care for the usefulness of adaptability, and then – even more fun – was accused of not being me, because I adapted my style! Ugh, what is one supposed to do?)
I noticed I increasingly drifted back to fairly normal English spelling and formation, lately, as I scribbled about things closer to my heart. Or rather, that which was more difficult for me to describe as I experienced an emotional reaction. I think it was a scene in the remake of The Thomas Crown Affair, where Rene Russo examining a captive suspect of unknown nation, cycles through a bunch of languages with sexually provocative openers, until she gets a twitch of recognition. Neat scene. We all respond emotionally in our native tongue. Even if it is just a facial twitch of discomfit.
Thought you might be amused, as I humorously enjoy what are my own foibles such as I ever see of them, just as virtue of what I do (telesales, might as well call it what it is when you do it) study the “tells” in voice – though usually i pay more heed to who doesn’t want to hear me so I can hop off the phone and live to try another day, maybe. I try to be attuned, but sometimes the thing is to speak in a different tune, and find what is returned. There is humor to be had in words, and rather fun to think someone might “get” some of mine between the lines!
Incidentally, only other Angus I know, is Prussian, Danziger, German Pole, internal refugee, smuggler, confidence trickster on the good side, octogenarian. His linguistic mannerisms are something of a delightful if confusing study! Language is fun, we should all use it more interestingly. Unfortunately, in this search for truth, which I believe is brought about by the smothering blanket of uneducated tosh spewed by barely pubescent media, (no, no excuse, who thinks the medium changed by pixels therefore that the fundament changed, just as neither youth makes few discoveries) there seems to be a clamouring for literalism and dry report which conveys so little of life and permits no levity. Even in some replies to my comments, oh my . . funny thing is I thought the example of crisp reporting was the American style, in the papers I read as a boy, at least the NYT of 30 years ago. Now we all suffer logorrhea. (runs of words, apols if my Latin fails)
Anyhow, hoping I have not enthused you or irritated you sufficiently you are inclined to unmask me, hope I’ll get to scribble back to you again abouts here!
thanks & yours, – j
Hi Joe, good to have you bcd from Bahrain (I assume) and good reporting from there.
I’ve read the press release from Lotus, and honestly, really I want to see the positive side, I want to say something nice and I want it all to be okay. I’d also like the ‘incoming missile’ buzzer in my car to stop sounding when I drive past the factory.
However.
My English isn’t brilliant, but I can’t seem to tie up “raises commitment” with losing two teams and doing less. It’s like saying the BBC have raised their commitment to F1 this year as they’re now covering less. The poor old press release on this is pretty well excuse and semi apology filled isn’t it.
Oh well, I’m off to ‘increase my commitment’ to losing weight by having a large kebab and some beer. Later on I’ll ‘increase my commitment’ to staying up and awake by going to bed and sleeping…
My understanding of the situation is that Lotus (Judd) will be supplying three CARS not three teams. There’s a big difference.
“In the meantime Lotus has issued a press release with the headline: “Lotus Raises IndyCar Commitment” in which it has announced a reduction in the number of teams linked to Lotus from five to three.”
I thought I was reading sniffpetrol for a moment…
“The chocolate ration has been increased to 20 grams a week…”
““Lotus Raises IndyCar Commitment” LOL
Much laughter about this over this press release on this side of the pond. More along the lines that these teams are dumping Lotus. These teams have been reported to have submitted legal paperwork to Lotus to end their agreements. Tag’s comments (the ones we can mention without using four letter words!) after he got out of his car at Long Beach (DNF) revealed that the engine has many, many issues, the worst of which was overheating causing the ECU to suddenly crap out with big power loss.
This engine has ZERO hours at Indy power ratings. None. No one has any idea if it can hold together for 500 continuous miles and no one wants to be the first driver to have it blow up as they enter one of the four turns flat out.
They had 8 engines for five cars total at the last race! They two lost engines in practice at LB. One had an issue in qualifying. They went to the grid with crossed fingers. Didn’t work.
Now these two teams are having to miss Brazil and hunt down an additional million dollars to secure either a HONDA or CHEVY engine. There is much discussion concerning who breached the contract – Lotus or the two teams who want out.
Considering the comments from the much unloved Miodrag Kotur, he’s been dumping all over John Judd for the engine issues and some of the teams contracted were scolded for ‘expecting too much’. LOL Who IS this guy? He made excuses concerning the Proton buyout that froze funds that could have been used for engine development. Jay Penske is ready to sue over some issue ($?) and the two teams that dumped Lotus say that the contract was breached the minute Lotus failed to deliver engines for the Indy pre-test so they enacted their get out clause. Kotur says no clause exists. Who’s right? Only the lawyers get rich mode again.
What a mess.
Why am I not surprised by all of this? I was doubtful about Lotus’ plans to be seen in all forms of motorsport to begin with. When IndyCar welcomed them with open arms, I wanted to scream “nooooo” (It even came out in slow motion). I realize Randy Bernard really had few alternatives, but surely he’d read the stories about Danny boy. Hope for the best, yes, but RB forgot the second half of that phrase; plan for the worst. Can you imagine this happening in F-1? ( I know, it has in the past). The letter to Group Lotus should have read “thanks for your interest, however we here at IndyCar will do fine with the engines we have. Good luck on all the other forms of racing you enter”. Going into a 500 mile race with untested engines is a recepie for disaster. Poor Tags.
Miodrag is the ex-tyre spotter at Ferrari……
What’s worse, is that DRR runs with the Lotus livery. What an embarrassing mess not just for Lotus, but IndyCar. Tags is a tremendous spokesman, and if he is freaking, you know this is a cluster %uck of epic proportions.
So, erm having just looked at the DRR website, which is um, very black and gold as befits, and I quote, the Lotus Indycar Team, what you’re saying mediumjim, is that the open wheel premier class car running as Lotus in Lotus livery won’t have a Lotus engine and may not be sponsored by or connected with… Lotus.
Obviously that would be daft, as daft as say, Lotus cars sponsoring a Renault F1 team and making out to the general public it’s them. Next thing you’ll be telling me is that the Lotus in GTs is really a Lola! Crazy!
KV racing spent all of last season doing just that, running a Lotus soponsored Dallara with a Honda engine. It looked like a Lotus though.
And what does a Lotus look like?
Does a paint job make it so?
I think not!
In what way is the F1 car a Renault? They pulled out in 2010 and remain solely as an engine supplier. Lotus F1 cars are as much Renaults as Williamses and Caterhams are.
Er – in what way was the car a Renault in the first place? Because some global multinational bought a 20+ year old team off the shelf, & stuck their main brand on it?
How does that become so (expletive) sacrosanct? There was a real Renault F1 team. It was based in France, populated overwhelmingly by French staff, introduced the first turbo car to modern era F1, very nearly won the world championship, hired Derek Warwick -out of- the same team that is now apparently truly “Renault” (he said at the time he was worried that after he left, someone else would win races there…) – and got shut down in the mid ’80s. What have a bunch of mostly Brits based in Oxfordshire got to do with that, or Renault?
Back in the day, the receptionists in Coventry were taught to answer the phone with the words “BL Large Car Plant”. But it was still Jaguar. The real Renault F1 team built its chassis in Viry-Chatillon (not just its engines). The team Pat Symonds and Rory Byrne built was never Renault and never will be. They were just its custodians for a while.
No doubt Tags in angry. He put together a respectable package and his sponsors are looking bad. He does not have many years left and missing Indy could be it for him. When Paul Tracy missed Indy he lost Geico as a sponsor and has not been able to put anything together since.
The Indy 500 next month is not the biggest race of the year. It is the race. Anyone not making the race, a lotus team(s), has a good chance of going out of business before the next race.
Has anyone heard anything from John Judd’s people? I assume it is finance but at this point he is looking like a fool too!
The lame statement that these Lotus customers shouldn’t expect too much (my phrasing) is silly considering one of the teams won the 500 last year and the other was on pole! Kotur should have stuck to Logistics – seems managing a whole operation is a step beyond his capabilities – certainly his PR skills are lacking… (But these issues seem to be company wide it appears). 50 HP down on the other engines in what is generally a spec series is a LOT. Without test cell time (and risk of major failures to test units), new components designed and built, Lotus can not catch up. As a result of Lotus not funding the engine program as they were supposed to (for what ever reasons), these teams risked losing their sponsors if the 500 appeared to be lost before they even turned a wheel in practice.
Rumor has it that the switch of engine suppliers has been approved by IndyCar and that both team rep’s will be in Brazil firming up their engine supplies – money in hand. Herta may be back with Honda – his partner from last year. FYI: Honda’s not making friends either (just like Lotus) with their moves to ask permission to change turbo housings after engine specs frozen before the season started. GM,esspy Roger Penske are LIVID.
It’s weird when the non track activity is more interesting then the on track activity…
Who knew PR releases could read like old Seinfeld scripts.
Wow! Did Bahar take them all out and get them drunk before presenting his contract terms?
For a company already in substantial debt, to accept a new CEO with that kind of salary and those kind of exit terms was something of a major own goal. Still I suppose over a good long lunch, a salary of just £1.2m plus living accommodation, cars and expenses, looks like practically nothing next to the proposals for the megadebt necessary to finance a British Posche scheme.
These terms will seem to many, outrageous, given the state of the company, however when one measures this against the salaries of CEOs of our major banking and financial institutions who have achieved unprecedented losses and levels of debt, then, on a debt vs salary ratio Lotus Group may have got a bargain.
I see that the directors and only shareholders of Lotus Youngman UK Automotive Company Ltd are Mr Azman Bin Abdullah and Mr Dany Taner Bahar (Both are listed as British).
There appear to be two shares of £1 each. One is owned by each of the above and fully paid up. The statement of capital is £2. The address is c/o Lotus Cars Ltd, Potash Lane etc.
Pardon my suspicious mind, but I was affected by the Rover/Pheonix four affair. (Which still angers a lot of people in or ex the industry, those too young to remember look here http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/sep/11/mg-rover-phoenix-four)
One way to get out of the contract is that Bahar given a substantial equity in the new company, just as Fernandes was given MAS shares to give up Team Lotus rights. Bahar could then be one of the next Phoenix 4.
Why would anyone give him anything?
I am pretty sure it’s not legal to bind a company to a contract it cannot support.
Must have written a few essays here already on how failure to heed companies act is a blight on every single person in this country. But we have a great law, it’s very well written. Huge effort went into sorting it out.
It most definitely protects a company from rogue directors signing away too much, and generally from risking the farm.
If, for a moment, we thought to apply our law, instead of permit whomsoever has the greater legal budget run roughshod over every tenet it is supposed to uphold, we’d have it as a sharp tool to regain status in commerce around the world. But we do not, and our rankings on transparency, honesty, trust, any aspect you can think of that matters to dealing in business, put us far down the list of good places to trade.
The law in other countries is not superior to ours. Though factors such as very strict director liability in say Germany and Sweden swing in their favor heavily, we have plenty safeguard here, backed by criminal penalty, and our company law is far better integrated with the finance acts and contract case law.
Sole reason we slip, is because we tolerate corruption at every level. The small business lobby is to me the most offputting, always moaning that the law prevents them taking risks. Rubbish. I’ll give that the employment law has become a travesty. But the lobby effect is to make it politically unacceptable to apply the law that does usefully exist, to make it function. Reason: not a sod has any clue what that law is. The vast majority of directors are derelict in their duty to a reprehensible level.
If I could not find, on close inspection, a criminal breach by any given director, I’d be surprised. Directors get all this protection from risk, and do not even know they trade that protection for abiding some rules.Willful negligence is a disgusting state of affairs.
For every director who relies on an accountant’s advice, there is someone who can be disqualified.
What the small business lobby whines and pines for is to be able to do as they please, without respect for the law, and be free of any obligation. No wonder banks only reluctantly lend. And I often sense it is big business who puppets the small business lobby. Law is worthless unless heeded or practiced. We need a tribunal system which accepts complaints from disinterested parties.
Meanwhile, I am surer with every bit of news, that Bahar, and his puppet masters, have in fact deliberately run the Lotus Group into the ground. So that is may be “saved” in a new trick. There is little business logic because somewhere, in a darkened room, there is only infighting personal politics.
Although I respect Bacon, MP, for coming out and getting this debated, if it were not for the sentiments expressed by Nick Coleman, rpaco, and others who have experience of the situation, I would posit the only argument is to issue an act of attainder and freeze the business, because I see the only plan afoot as being ruin it to generate a tax loss, use it to stalk better businesses (Enstone, Renault F1), and transfer it to favored hands once a government bailout has been secured.
The good people of Lotus Group are political hostages.
The secretary of state is within his power to act to dissolve the company now, and place it in better hands.
I think that should happen before more damage is caused. Quite aside from the financial damage, the psychological and very real effects of working for a destructing company place a burden on all society, punish innocents, children, everyone connected. Such damage lasts. But who will be held responsible for that? I can tell you now, that if you take a unfair blow in life, compensation money is not the help you need. Even if compensation is life changing amounts, you have lost the way of life you knew, and you don’t “readjust”, you flounder and go sleepless and worry, and none of your friends are the same. I tell you, such experiences are mental terrorism. Therefore, we should stop this slow motion trainwreck with the big guns of law.
I believe this is serious enough to warrant a SFO investigation. There has been a fraud on the tax and worse on the employees. It must be patent to all that there are influences coming from unknown parties abroad. I have little faith in the SFO or any policing of business here, but that would balance affairs by properly applying long term pressure on the directors who have engineered this unpleasantness.
I can well understand why Tony F will not step in, even if that was his original aim.
The Lotus affair has done real damage to F1, not only in confusing the eff out of anyone I know who casually watches, and that knocks on to other sponsors and teams, because it highlights a general confusion gotten nearly out of hand lately. But because worst of all it showed people playing with famous names and treating fans like playthings. It detracted from the sport in general.
However my long term interest in what is going on with Lotus and F1 is to highlight the new attitude and approach we need in business, so find mechanisms to enforce sensible law, to regain trust in the business system, and ultimately clean up the whole act so we have a chance at getting us all out of the doldrums.
(I have started to make a move, join the obvious organizations and clubs, so as to try to do more than gripe about the structural problems here, but so far been offput by the self interested “networking” of it all. All the “poor us” moaning. Joe would i think be highly amused the local chief, wonderful chap, for my locale in the Federation of Small Businesses (FSB), is the spitting image of The Mole!)
Maybe the inane press release and general disorganized behavior of Lotus Group is the result of those nominally in charge there realizing what they have done. At least that would be human. All I argue for is we start rummaging in our very deep legal toolbox to see what can bring a halt to further pain. On this gig, we should not be talking to anyone overseas. Sort out our own mess, at home, under our laws. It is very doable. So do it, already.
Somewhere, Kevin Kalkhoven is very very happy he got screwed sooner rather than later. What you wanna bet he has a Cosworth IndyCar effort just waiting for a sponsor, ie, Ford?
MediumJim — what is worse, the active driver with the most wins in IndyCar is stuck bringing his Lotus from dead-last to middle of pack based on sheer will power. And Simona, the driver with arguably the most marketing potential (to be a fan favorite) is likewise mired in the back instead of banging wheels with the leader.
Joe, thanks for keeping us up to speed about the automotive world’s version of “Peyton Place”. Lotus has been my favorite car since I saw Diana Rigg drive her Elan in “The Avengers” in the mid-sixties. To see what is happening to the company now is downright painful.
It’s interesting to me that DRB-Hicom has waited so long to refute the sale rumor. One would think that as soon as the Prime Minister is known to talking to the Malaysian government that a response from DRB would have been immediately forthcoming. Were they caught in the act?
I hope that Gerard Lopez will be able to buy the company, he at least seems to be interested in making Lotus viable again.
The more I think about it, the clearer everything becomes. Stupid us, it’s not that people are not buying Lotus cars, it’s just potential Lotus road car buyers showing their increased commitment to the brand by not purchasing. Lotus PR logic, simples.
I’m showing my increased commitment to both the brand and its motorsport programmes by buying a Renault.
Malaysian’s rely on “Mat salleh” to run their PSU, give huge compensation to the Mat salleh for their services, and then split under acrimonious circumstances having to pay out the Mat salleh a huge severance amount. Now why does that story sound familiar. Oh yes that’s pretty much the story of majority of join ventures of foreign entities in Malaysia, thanks to the rampant cronyism that country.
Local news suggests that KPMG have been appointed with a brief to sell Group Lotus to the Chinese. Can you confirm?
BBC are reporting that KPMG have been appointed to broker a sale of Group Lotus to China : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710
Joe,
Yet another twist in the Lotus saga – BBC News just published a story that Richard Bacon MP ‘told the House of Commons consultancy firm KPMG “has been appointed with a mandate” to sell Group Lotus to the Chinese’. Not much more detail beyond that at present http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710 They mentioned that Lotus denied the claim, but it would be interesting to know if KPMG will confirm or deny…
credit to KV racing for realising that Lotus was about to fail and switched to chevrolet
Joe, not sure if you have seen the following article on Indycar’s website: http://indycar.com/en/News/2012/April/4-24-Lotus-drops-two-teams
Needless to say it’s been written by someone well versed in PR unlike the tosh that been emanating from the Group in recent days.
I particularly appreciated the words of “Director of Motorsport Group Lotus Claudio Berro”, when he stated that ““Lotus in IndyCar is like David versus Goliath. “We are and always will be a niche British sports car company built for the few, not the many.”
Seems to somewhat fly in the face of Mr Bahar’s message!
To be fair, the vast majority of that text is either directly copied or only slightly edited from the Lotus website.
BBC reported Lotus could be sold to the Chinese, according to Richard Bacon, South Norfolk MP. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710
I believe I may have written that already.
Lotus-engined cars were seven mph slower than Chevy and Honda on the straights at Long Beach. Imagine what Indianapolis will be like.
I thought the lotus brand on gerard lopez’s cars were advertisment and the tv monies go to the team, if not then gerard lopez have dropped a goolie. All the same it is very messy…..
I hope your proud of yourself. This is the most obvious biased blog entry against Lotus so far. Your normally much more subtle mixing truth, rumours and lies. At best you spote half-truths. I have read all the articles referred to except the actual registration of Lotus Youngman.
On the negative front is Mr Bahar’s house problem, minor – not lotus linked or our prerogative to cast judgement on no facts, IndyCar – an overambitious f*ck up caused by strange governing rules, late entry, takeover and limited budget.a
For someone with insider knowledge, you missee the BBC news report regarding KONG’s brief to sell Lotus to the Chinese.
Ah, you again. What is your real name? Who do you work for?
Total biased crap. For someone with expert knowledge did you predict the BBC article late last night about KPMG’s brief to sell lotus to a Chinese company. Only partially. Your speculation regarding administration was bullshit. Talks to Chinese companies only intensified after Cameron’s meeting with Malysion PM to discuss Lotus after the news stories prompted by this blog and Tony’s tweets. Mr Bahar is still CEO.
DRB-HICOM might sell Lotus in the future but I don’t think they are in a rush. Genii would be a good minority investor, but Lotus might be sold to a major car company. Anyway Chinese ownership does not automatically mean being broken up, relocation or stagnation although it is a fear. The Chinese car market is the largest in the World, the fastest growing and the most improved. Chinese ownership can be good, as well as bad.
The new exige s has rave reviews by the way.
Mr Thompson,
A CEO without a signature? You either have no idea what is going on here or you are one of them and trying to fight back by being unpleasant. This would not be unusual, would it? You and the goons at Hethel do not seem to understand that this is nothing to do with Caterham, why would it be? The two companies are not even in competition. It is about telling the truth. And if you need any lessons in that, read this blog on the subject of Bahrain. Whatever the case, I write these stories in an effort to make sure that the people in Norfolk, whose livelihoods depends on these people, have some idea what is going on. That is only fair.
Er hey… Mr Thompson. Joe claimed ages back that a Lotus Youngman sale was possible. He got trashed for it. Proton then came out yesterday, just before the Parliamentary debate, trashed the claim again. Then the MP – SPEAKING UNDER THE PROTECTION OF PARLIAMENTARY PRIVILEGE, makes the claim. I’d say Joe was right on the money. Richard Bacon can name KPMG, and clearly that’s deeply confidential commercial information which he has obtained, and he won’t get sued as he did it in the commons.
Do you really think that Joe or any of the critics of Lotus on here want to see it fold? 1200 unemployed? Like you I live here in Norfolk, although I have to pay for my own house, unlike you I’m Norfolk through and through – google me. Any contraction at Hethel hits the economy, and I’d be just as fired up if it was Banham Poultry or Aviva who were in trouble. It’s called heritage and local jobs.
Now you can either flame me, Joe and everyone else, or pop upstairs and see Dany, come back with a logical argument as to why a purchase by China, which you seem to support, would be good for us. Also try talking to some of the staff who attended the shop floor briefing yesterday at Hethel, see how secure and pro China they feel. Your Evora is parked in one of the press fleet spaces by the way.
Ah Joe can you block this jerk please ?!
Block NG Thompson not nikcolman!
I’d prefer if Joe lets his posts through, actually. The mindset of the people on the top floor at Hethel should be displayed as broadly as possible.
Wow I’m battling with you Ash to keep myself at the top of the Hethel directed sarcasm ladder here! lol. They must be in the conference room checking their new WordPress names against the staff list to make sure they don’t use a real name by mistake. It is alleged.
Completely agree, eye opening. Not altogether pleasant either.
I was just thinking it might be instructive to let one of these threads run “unmoderated”, just to get a whiff of the air about this.
Just slapped my wrist to delete a very long detailed and angry rant about the general poverty of business morals, inspired by this latest. Deleted it because I simply cannot get over the idea there are too many indistinct influences at work messing about with Hethel. This is the more substantial and less technical rewrite.
Nick Coleman is my blog hero for calling out the utter BS of all this, but I actually think it is more sinister. Just who the FFFF is in charge? Who does Danny Bahar answer to? Who are the puppeteers? It is rightfully a parliamentary question. I do not like the feeling I sense of untoward external influence.
I don’t care about this builder suing – what’s new? Builders local to me would salivate at the prospect of a Danny B asking for a quote. They’d at least add one zero to the true price. (that is a realistic ballpark even for who is not simply conned) For once, I actually would believe his side, not who comes up with a 300 grand bill for a modest alteration. (rpaco can add builder to my list of possible real jobs, since I claim some rather educational experience in construction, to point I was presumed to be in that trade by cab drivers, etc.)
I am also not sure Danny B is to blame. Not as in dumping everything at his feet. I think he’s a patsy for someone. It’s unfair, if that is true, to simply bash the guy. What makes me livid, moreover, is the systemic disregard for law that allows guys like Danny B to operate without consequences. Negligence and wilful ignorance of the law makes a patsy’s job all too attractive, as they risk nothing. We have excellent company laws here. But instead of being our sharpest tool to regenerate our economy, by regaining trust and ousting the charlatans and worse in our corporate society, we suffer the utter pigswill lobby that business is about encouraging risk taking, which is so thorough a whitewash there is not even lipservice to the quid pro quo liability of a company director.
I doubt there’s a living being in this country who has not been disadvantaged by the free pass given to directors even when they deal criminally.
No, a director cannot give CEO Danny a contract of a size and nature that risks the company itself. That’s just illegal. Saying that again for clarity, it is not legal to commit a company to such onerous contracts. The rant I deleted was an examination of why the law fails to operate, but possibly the most illustrative (and accessible) point from what I deleted was that the con is to say you relied on an accountant’s advice. Well funny thing: you can actually be disqualified permanently for such abandonment of your duty, and taking advice absolve you not of anything. We fail to enforce the law. Instead, our politicians try to dump the problem on “society”. That means us, you and me. Our bloody fault everyone feels they cannot trust anything. Obviously. Yup, you and I definitely should be ashamed we never personally used the law of our land to stop idiot (or savant) company directors effing up our economy, neighbourhood, families and homes. What a frightening idea, though. If we did have a functioning commercial world in our country? My, there’d be little to nothing for the ruddy politicians to interfere with . . [naughty, John, bit too much coffee again!]
To whoever this guy is who is accusing Joe of pitching up for some imaginary interest from Caterham: What Utter Tosh.
Any normal person gets upset at the kind of crap going down at Hethel, it’s plain human, it’s a problem all on its own. I do say this though: stop all the nonsense and sell lock, stock and barrel to Tony, in the way I described a few days ago, i.e. cleaned up and debts paid off by who created those debts. My reason for wanting that, is that then this poor company stops being a pawn. I am sure Tony F is not so stupid as to play games to obtain a company when the game is likely to destroy the place and deliver him at best a invalid needy dependant. So, you see, that rules him out. No, but I think someone else is prepared to play that kind of scorched earth engagement. Someone with no obvious skin in this game at all. I think they have not shown themselves. Someone needs to get to the bottom of this. Makes me sick, personally, what is going on. But far more seriously, who knows that some lackey from the PLA low ranks is not piddling us all about? Not like that never happens.
Not a Norfolk boy by any stretch, but heck am I applying for temporary honorary status. Stop this farce already! Also, respect to Richard Bacon, MP. But this is way more important than a local issue. I can see just about every corporate, moral, financial, geo-political and societal malaise being played out in this Lotus affair. (and that’s another reason why I think Tony has no more hand in this, because it’s just way too messy, i actually believe TF learned that the hard way last year) More need to look close and learn what their eyes see, once the scales removed.
Gulp.Blush. Thank you John other John.
Here’s another thing, I wrote to Richard Bacon at 10pm last night, via his website email submission form, just saying keep up the good work – I am in his constituency. Got the automated reply straight back, then astonishingly ten minutes later he wrote back in person. Now I’m impressed by an MP. It’s all getting a bit strange…
Now folks, I am just asking a question here, so don’t shoot me down. It may well be that none of us are in a situation to answer accurately, I certainly am not.
Before any pseudonym bearing Lotus types attack me, I am simply curious, and I’m talking about a theoretical situation were the car manufacturing division of Lotus a stand alone company, which it is not, I understand it is a division of a fully solvent and properly traded company, Proton. If you need any clarification on this, you know where I live, pop round. Careful of the chickens in the drive though, you can’t see them from an Exige. So, I’m not accusing anyone of anything as I make clear at the end of this comment.
Would the sum of Lotus Cars tangible assets as a notional stand alone company, which it is not (see above) be greater than it’s unsecured debts, bearing in mind that preferential debt secured on it’s assets may affect this status? I’m guessing the £200 million must be secured on something, but maybe it’s Proton who secure it.
I assume the value of stock and the massive site at Hethel would in this theoretical situation outweigh ‘in hand’ debt to suppliers etc? I’m asking not about the future, I’m just curious as to whether as a stand alone entity, this notional version of Lotus Cars company would be solvent (not profitable).
I guess it all comes down to the holding company, Malaysian Govt guarantees etc back in the real world.
Hi Nick,
sudden thought: why can’t Piech and VW pick up Lotus?
They have all the small drivetrains to adapt, from economy to performance, they want to sell in the far east where there’s apparently interest in the brand, and they only just bought Ducati for the pure pleasure of having the name. Can you imagine a light AUDI R8 genepool in the next Lotus? That would be really cool, I’d want one. Dammit, that would be scary fun to drive, go start a race series!
Most of all, VW generates so much cash it has a problem reinvesting it. Lotus is peanuts to them. But what you get is a serious car company who has several times (Lambo’, Bugatti, Skoda, Bentley) picked up a dysfunctional mess and kept the best and made good. And they are patient.
Am I dreaming, or would that be a great outcome?
Simple: a British manufactured cross between an Elise / Exige and the to my view superb but utterly dull of heart R8. Get’s my heat beating. You?
I just do not understand Proton or any Chinese company having any use for Lotus. Because they have nothing to offer, either money or technology. Moment Youngman and China came onto the scene for real, you have to worry even more, about self – anointed army types fiddling in business. They all of them only understand how to gouge. Malaysia too, they took all the loans we lent which were enough to transform their infrastructure, and flipped them off. Maybe Piech could take out Proton too, if that lot really need mollifying. I don’t think he’s so soft.
All my above talk, about how the whole business system is bust here, is too much to digest, too big to solve. (Though I argue it is the real political issue) But if we are after a white knight, let’s find one who will make good. By all means give them a tax break. At least we know VW stick around long enough that we’ll get something back for that. VW could enjoy Lotus too, as a place to send their young buck talent to cut their teeth, safe in the knowledge not only is the important tech always available almost off the shelf, but that deep pockets will ensure continuity so that a team can get themselves together and tight and happy and get on with new things.
Any which way, I do appreciate you got me paying attention to this. Keep on that Bacon chap’s case, he comes across well.
all best from me, – john
“Mr Bahar”? Is that what he makes you call him in the office?
High five. I feel better about the extreme sarcasm in my last para now.
I know a few of the old Rover workforce that watched their machine tools be shipped out on flatbeds on the way to the docks. They’re all cleaners in my building now.
Chrissake. That actually makes me physically sick. No words, just a silent but deafening angry profanity emanating from me now . . ffff this world. Seriously. Dredge the tools up and bury them up the — of who did that. Bastards.
They were shipped to china to build 20 year old rover designsfor the domestic market
For once, I’ll spare everyone the story, but I need many tonnes of the old style “india paper” to print a book so it’s not a a two man lift to turn the pages. I ended up tracing the milling tools to China. Just one example of throwing away good stuff. Solving that problem added a year to the schedule.
Thank you for the correction, I thought they completely threw the kit away. But taking the kit away discards the skills honed to make use of it, discards our own people. We just shouldn’t do that. There has to be a better way to preserve knowledge and still bring our manufacture forward. All these skills are relevant to learning today. These factories (i mean any which are left, and to do this stop the tax write offs for destroying outdated plant) should be opened up to students for study, everyone who operated kept on to teach, before they are finally retired.
When I talk to 20 somethings about what I do, it’s when I talk about getting inky hands, the productive muck of the game, the machinery, which gets me on the spot with the most questions, bright faces asking. I’m not really that much older than them! They sense clearly the opportunity to engage physically with the product to be made is a opportunity lost. I think we need both the new analysis as well as the places to learn how we got to the new tech.
I don’t want museums, but practical places to use the equipment. They are just left to dereliction otherwise. They are trashed to get tax write-offs as useless. That system is wrong.
By all means teach China, too. Just not be so quick to sell our tangible heritage. Fire-sale prices denude us of the familiarity and subtle learning to pass on. Instead it all concentrates in theory and textbooks that are beyond affordable for your average family.
Being from Yorkshire, mother’s side, mills were museums already in my childhood, but they bored me – i was more excited by the Singer sewing machine in our spare room, because i could touch it and use it. (sneakily, in secret, it was my paternal grandmother’s, on which she toiled at piece work, in the end, so was a sacrosanct object, discarded i think by my step siblings)
One day, there will be a big public shock of recognition that there’s so much industrial heritage we should have kept to play with.
Being able to do something is what gets most kids alive, not the theory. Making something with tools is magic, and therefore tools should be a continuous part of our life.
A simple computer game, called Minecraft, gained enormous success with the youngsters, mainly pre teen, because it allowed simple ways of building things in the game. I played it, it is pretty cool. But way better we have physical things. Even better because your dad has to show you how to use a lathe or a turning chisel, and you get something to show your mom that doesn’t keep us glued at the screen.
This is not a lament, I really hope we’ll fix this. SONY or whoever may be disappointed, but I think we can all live with that, even them.
very best from me – j
“The new exige s has rave reviews by the way.”
Yes but at £52,000 who is going to be stupid enough to buy it???
I don’t know who you are N.G. Thompson, but you don’t half post a load of CR*P!!! Please go away and annoy someone else.
Sorry Joe, but this guys posts are getting up my nose and i had to say something!!
Sorry to be a total thicko, and appear ignorant of the very matters I’m commenting on, but is that really the price of a top end Exige? £50k? Yikes.
So you’re in very serious, very low mileage 2 year old 911 country then?
I know there’s no comparison etc, but I thought the whole point of the Lotus rebirth is to take on Porsche etc and drive the market to the well heeled city types who are leasing 911s etc. That’s where the volume sales are – happy for anyone to correct me.
I’m sure the Exige, which I’ve driven for a week and is a great great car will run rings around a 911 on track etc, and i personally love the sparse cockpit, funny switches, hot right leg, bruised shin – I’m being serious, it’s a barrel of fun, but once I’ve finished laughing and having a crazy smirk on my face I can give it back to Lotus and take my Fiat Multipla to Tescos and the school run. Not my problem and not my bill. Just in case anyone doubts my sincerity on that:
Check out the self deprecating things I say, the praise I give Lotus and the fact that I drive like an old woman. I adored the Exige Cup Car in all it’s silliness, (okay so the Cup car is a bit of an extreme example), but could I commute in it everyday? Of course not. Read on…
I took a Europa (2008 version) through the car wash and it rained on me inside, the cupholder threw tea all over the floor when it fell off and there was a constant smell of hot oil. Actually though, I thought that for an old buffer like me, it was a nice car, softer, a bit un-Lotus like but with all the DNA.
To me, the faults are endearing Norfolk traits, but if you live in SW1 and you’re commuting, you’ve got £50k to spend, you’re going to be down Lancaster Porsche right now, soaking up the squishy seats, working aircon, storage space and twenty speaker stereo, p*ssy magnet 911 with iPhone connector.
I WANT them to succeed – I was there filming the new range proposals long before they were public – I was entranced, I thought Dany Bahar was a (and is) a real slick salesman, Donato was a great bloke with a real easy line in conversation – he pointed out to me about a dozen faults on the Evora while we waited for the Royals, and his early renderings of the new cars – and I’m just talking about the shapes and the models here – were to me, stunning. Even the steering wheel mock ups were awesome, his ideas on the heritage of the front shape of the cars, terrific.
What I didn’t know, as a relative layman in terms of design and engineering, was just how (over) ambitious this was. I’d seen five new models and I was of the impression there was an elimination process to thin them down to three – then suddenly they’re all out there, with the associated costs and risks, and there’s frankly bonkers PR efforts going on. Suddenly, like I guess so many others, I felt like I was listening to the band on the Titanic.
I’m still hoping someone can steer the ship away from the iceberg,
Ooops, I didn’t realize posting the link http would embed the video. Sorry if that’s a problem to anyone.
Nik
Only to those of us who can’t watch it because we’re illicitly getting our Saward fix from work computers…
You as well!!
Nik,
this is lifted straight from the Autocar road test……..
“Lotus Exige 3.5 V6 S First DriveTest date 10 April 2012 Price as tested £52,900″
http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Lotus-Exige-3.5-V6-S/262459/
Iain T
Am I starting to drivel on a bit? lol. I thought I’d give the haters a bit of a target and take the flak away from Joe for a bit.
I may be totally mad, and I think the Baharmy Army claimed they’ve had seven gigzillion Exige Superduper orders or whatever, but £53k, crikey according to Autotrader that’s a used Ferrari 360, and enough over to buy my dream combo, a 2008 Fiat Multipla, with front seat fridge, alloys and a DVD player, and a Ducati 916.
See, I’m not sure I understand quite who Lotus’s target market is these days. And the competition is pretty stiff.
From one side you have the “normal” car brands with decent service networks meaning probably cheaper and easier running costs – top spec Audi TT, Nissan 370Z, Peugeot RCZ are all much much cheaper.
Then the premiums brands with arguably more prestige and much better comfort and reliability than Lotus, all around the same price for the top end model : Merc SLK, Merc E-class convertible, BMW Z4, BMW M3.
And then there’s Porsche, whose Boxster and Cayman fall well into the same price bracket – you can get a brand new Cayman R for the same money or a Boxster Spyder with all the options. It’ll be more comfortable and probably more reliable – the cynical will say that it’ll be more waterproof too.
And those are just new cars. If you’re prepared to buy second-hand then all bets are off : nearly-new Jags, Astons, Lambos Ferraris all enter the game. All come with better brand recognition if petrol-engined penis extension is your thing.
To my mind, 90% of people with £50k to spend on a car are going to want either comfort or proper back seats or both. Assuming you win £75k on a scratchcard, are you going to want a new Ford Focus for the school run and a Lotus for fun? Or just a £75k Merc, Beamer or Audi super-saloon to do both in one car?
Spot on Jem and I think we are all trying to say this exact same thing. I know several bikers – or former bikers like me, who had to go to the next best thing – MX5, MR2, MGF, or if you were flush and a bit more hardcore, your £25k Elise. Now maybe that business model didn’t work, not enough buyers, I’m no expert. £50k, £75k is another game though.
The other issue that you allude to is right – buy a mainstream car and in your lease deal – and that’s what you’ll be paying with, three months down and 36 months – you’ll get a servicing package, road tax and tyres if you want, service at dale ranked dealer nationwide. So you either have to do that, embrace that as New Lotus – nothing wrong with it but you better throw in another £200 million setup, or be an alternative that, like the current cars, are low on frills, but balanced by outrageous performance, handling, PERSONALITY, and being different. It’s Ducati versus Honda, Aprilia versus Kawasaki. Actually they may be bad examples but you get my drift.
Lol bloody iPad auto correction! It should say “any branded dealer” in there…. Not Dale Rank lol, which sounds like a brand of bacon.
Nick, if VW bought Lotus, they’d be easy fleet deals for sales reps and the like. That’s like the old one that you won’t get fired for buying IBM. I see no point in all this unless we get some sales clout and a dealer network and the finance backup. That’s why Malaysia and Proton cannot compete. But I’ll come to that in a moment.
Something diesel and novel, something adapted from a Skoda, and a model caressed by who made the R8.
That’s three cars, three main models and the usual pricing and finish variations. That’s what every car company needs, a selection. When you go to Starbucks, almost everyone takes the middle option. That’s successful.
Peach did that super low fuel run in a buggy type car, to set some record, I forget which one or how. A Lotus chassis is just the thing to asymptote that. (auto correction left in!) but Tesla has gone away, now, far as I know. I think Elon Musk is off to pastures new. Sorry I am so fuzzy about all this, not up to date. But Downey Jnr’s Iron Man character was supposed to be a mix of Musk and Ellison. Those guys go their own way, always. To me, it’s Peach who is the Iron Man of practical motors. Glorious nut job. Glorious as in he makes things work out of crazy ideals.
[disclaimer: though I have not had VW or any of their group as customer lately, it was when i dealt with them that they impressed me. They always wow me. All the rest of my talk I try to base on logic and what might work]
I have revised my opinion: instead of Tony taking over the group, he should get the F1 and tuning side. By tuning I mean tuning up Lotus’s made by VW. And Tony should make Caterham and Proton into regional manufacture, thereby solving the Malaysian problem.
Try that again:
VW buys Lotus Group. Uses their own existing tech to produce three lines of small cars.
The top line of cars, maybe derivative the R8, should collaborate with Enstone (Lotus F1 / Genii group).
Tony should own Genii / Lotus F1 plus what he already got.
Tony should own the Asian manufacturing, subsuming Lotus production locally. That keeps their govt happy. Sort the connexion with a JV.
I am not sure what to do with Caterham as I don’t know the outfit but I think they should keep on with the 7 model, or whatever it is, and have it reworked by all this new engineering talent. It really is an entry level into performance cars, like a bubble car. Peach would understand that.
The big sales will be fleet, a super efficient 1.4L Diesel, and a small petrol hybrid. Both will be silly efficient and fast. But those will not eat into VW sales because we are talking the traditional shape and style of a Lotus. If you saw the fleets of BMW Minis run by estate agents in London, you might see what I mean. Like 206′s and similar dominated sales when I was a kid.
The thing to excite the audience is the R8 derived, Lotus coachwork, Enstone tweaked, Super Exige.
What you do with that, is start a racing series.
And Caterham supplies the engineering support to the privateers.
Now we have a kind of Ford – Cosworth symbiosis.
Now, I do reckon, if this happens, everyone would be happy. From financiers and C-suite suits, to us racing fans, plus who of us want a tuned decent modest motor. I want a performance diesel like the LMPs, only on a smaller block. Maybe 2.0L Those are freakishly awesome. The new Lotus line is where to put that AUDI tech.
I believe this would dominate the short wheelbase fast and efficient car market. Just think of who faiiled: Merc Smart, and A series. The BMW 100 series. How many others? Oh, TATA. It’s a very long list. And having a brand for it, well Lotus sounds pretty neat to me. Easier to market by far.
I mean everyone has a crack at this segment time to time, because models like the original Beetle or 2CV dominated their day. I think there is the right mix of talents to put this together. It must have a serious backer, though. No VW or other partner on that scale, seriously, you’ll make no sales.
This is the final way to get a British Marque on the world stage. If you let Tony keep the performance side and the F1 team, it will be British. It will actually be British. This seems to me to be very close to what Tony dreams of doing, so if he does it, dammit he is British.
Please guys tear me to shreds now. I’m stoked on this idea. Scrape me off the ceiling! Or just tell me why this shouldn’t work.
We need solutions, and we need them fast.
Disclaimer again: I bloody wish I was being paid for this. I’d expect a glorious wedge of pinkies in my envelope if I was shilling for anyone. Seriously, I’m too loudmouth not to have blown my cover if i was actually shilling for anybody. I just got caught up trying to find a solution that would be cool. This got deep into my heart, and the mess really has upset me. So now, is my proposal any good?
What do you lot think?
I think you’re right, someone should be paying you for this, and Joe and everyone else coming up with news and ideas! Lol
On the same kind of note I now have International Distribution for a documentary on this part of the Lotus story / history and two TV channels here looking to acquire a finished product so I’m running around trying to get funding to make it. So that’s everyone’s Christmas DVD looked after.
There’s already been someone else in the comments, who knew my late business partner, which was fun because he doesn’t know me, or that I know anything of him. (maybe we are invoking some spirit here, which attracts because of some familiar goodness?)
But may I, in that spirit, suggest someone who also does not know me, or at best spoke to me when i was a kiddo, but of whom my partner always spoke very highly, who might just have a clue and a half how to get your docu promoted across the pond?
Anyhow, this is the man:
http://www.springtime.biz/springtime.html
I reckon that’s worth a cold call, because the chap is as far as I ever heard, warm blooded and not unfriendly. Feels really strange suggesting this, as he’s a real link to my past I should one day try to make myself, would have stories to trade about our mutual friend. I just reckon this Lewis man, might be up your street. – random stab in the dark, hope it works!
Bahar appears to be Formula One’s very own Sir Fred G
Let this be a lesson to all teams with spaces on their cars – it’s OK to consider accepting sponsorship finance from ethically questionable companies but never sign with financially questionable ones.
Reminds me of a mistake in my past – Don’t sue anyone that’s not loaded.
presumably just a coincidence that the Lotus livery looks like a jar of Branston Pickle.
I’m speechless. For once I believe an MP, and if this story is accurate as I fear then Lotus Proton DRB just made themselves look as honest as Comical Ali.
Direct lift from BBC website, no copyright infringement intended:
Car maker Lotus in talks on sale MP reveals
The owners of sports car maker Lotus, which employs 1,200 staff, are in talks with a Chinese firm about a possible sale, an MP has revealed.
Richard Bacon MP has raised concerns a sale of the Norfolk-based firm could lead to jobs being moved to China.
Mr Bacon, South Norfolk MP, told the House of Commons consultancy firm KPMG “has been appointed with a mandate” to sell Group Lotus to the Chinese.
Lotus, which is owned by Proton, part of DRB-Hicom, has not commented.
Mr Bacon told the Commons it was “not an encouraging sign” and he was concerned at the “potential threat which exists to 1,200 local jobs”.
‘Immense worry’
His comments appear to contradict an earlier statement from Malaysian group DRB-Hircom, which said it had not decided to sell Lotus Group.
In a statement, it said it was still supporting Lotus Group “both financially and management-wise”.
“As of today, DRB-Hicom has identified one of Proton’s senior management personnel to take up a position in Lotus Group in an effort to strengthen its management,” it said.
In his speech to the Commons, Mr Bacon said Prime Minister David Cameron spoke to the head of Proton, Dato’ Sri Syed Zainal, during his recent trip to Malaysia.
Richard Bacon has always been a good MP for South Norfolk, its good to see he is on the case.
Yup he’s a good bloke and prepared to stick his neck out and call it as he sees it. Okay so he has Parl. Priv, but he isn’t going to mention anything as specific as KPMG unless he can back it up outside The House. You’d have to assume that the information may have flowed down to him from above.
He’s right to call the situation into question, right to wonder what will happen to the jobs, it’s his job to look after his constituants.
And in the meantime, the local Member of the British Parliament is contradicting the DRB-Hicom statement. Perhaps Joe, he read your previous post to this one on the subject?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-17834710
This story is poor and the most obvious yet. It and similar posts are the reason I didn’t renew my subscription to GP+ nor will I attend another audience. This is your blog and therefore you can write what you want – as per the rules.
Personally I don’t find it balanced.
I look forward to reading about the new Caterham 22 in Autocar India in the years to come, whilst flying to the sun on a AirAsia helicopter, reading the sports pages about QPR premier league champions, Caterham with Jean-Eric F1 champions and Lotus, Force India, Dany Bahar and Vijay Mallaya all erased from our near term memory by the Tune group hand held good feelings stimulator…
I don’t work for Lotus or Facebook.
Perhaps you should do… You seem to have all the necessary qualifications.
I don’t want to sound like I’m up Joes butt here, but what is ‘poor’ about the story or ‘obvious’ (meaning obviously biased I assume)?
Everything he’s reporting or commenting on in this particular post is public domain verifiable information. It’s actually about the LEAST speculative thing Joe has written on the subject! It’s a bit of a catch up pulling some of the previous threads together.
If you’re looking for the person who’s ‘stirred up’ what you seem to see as unbalanced coverage, may I direct you to the office of Richard Bacon MP. And good on him.
The comments may not be balanced – but of course that depends on who comments and cares.
Tony F may not be a big fan of Bahar and co, but I’d speculate from a Caterham Cars vehicle sales point of view, right now, they don’t give a toss about what Lotus are doing, and I’d guess the same is true in reverse. If Lotus stops making cars tomorrow I’m guessing the buyers that will turn to Caterham would number 1 in 10,000. Buyers looking to Porsche, Toyota, Suburu for an alternative to Elise or Evora is more like 1 in 3.
Spot on Nik!! If Irish Simon doesn’t like it or thinks it unballanced he shouldn’t come here.
It is very disturbing that Richard Bacon has seen fit to make a speech (using his parliamentary privilege) to highlight the risks to around 1200 jobs in his constituancy. He obviously has had some sort of communication in reply to his letter to DRB Hicom that has given him some concerns.
This whole sorry saga is very sad. I worked there twice (made redundant twice), as did my wife, so I know how it feels to be going through this whole process, with the uncertainty, the rubbish briefings from management.
Its all very well for Bahar, he gets a nice cut of 5% if there is a sale, to go on top of his £1.2 million bonus and £600,000.00 salary, and with his paid for rented mansion and company sports car.
Joe, why did he get sacked by Red Bull?
Iain T
Judging by recent events, for drinking far, far, far, far too much of it…
I find it quite surprising the number of commenters, like Irish Simon, on this blog that complain about bias, balance, obviousness, and whatever else. I would have thought that if you disagreed that much with Joe’s reporting, opinion and/or ethics then you’d have left long ago without a word.
As for Lotus, I’m still waiting for a genuinely new car from Lotus not just another rehash of an existing model (at least this new Exige has more than just some stripes). If Bahar’s plan was on track, even in its delayed version, then we’d be seeing photos of prototypes wandering around streets and tracks.
elephino,
if Joe prints the pixels, and i am not sure they’re worth the candle for him or readers here to do that, you might enjoy, as some highly personal view why I call rubbish to all those who claim bias here. If not, I shall keep mum, and calm down a while, because this all got me right going . . anyhow It’s my life’s work to figure out how to prevent rot in reporting, with a new system to trade adverts, keep that twisting well away. Presently I have too many personal reasons to remain anonymous, but the moment I open my new shop, I shall stop being shy. Won’t be any much choice, mind! It plain sucks how people throw such allegations about, who have no knowledge of how bent the mainstream media is. People don’t realize when they are coming across as ruddy hypocrites but they are just misinformed.
What do you think, though, of my amateur ideas of building a VW R8 Lotus, above? You see I want a kick-ass motor that is small for the city. Lotus should be it. My buddy and I – well actually it’s he who wears out Mazda 323Fs one after the other. But those are nice on the eye and pretty fast in the 2.0 petrol. We sort them out sell on and each one pays for the next. (pocket money stuff, really, but that is the fact of life in this city, having a rich motor is a serious liability) But what I want out of a new Lotus is the same reliability and just one model that is as tuned as can be legal on the street. The city driver should have the chance of real F1 heritage, not long lost Group B Lancia lust (and every time we get in the money, we start thinking to open up a garage in the arches to play around even more), I mean what you can get on the road from new from a showroom, without having specialist insurance. I reckon I may be a bit nutty, but that is just what is needed to sell fresh Lotus motors. That, plus the fleet version for sales repping. The companies who buy sales rep fleets here really really like British motors. That was the only thing keeping Rover alive, all their recent life. That’d be a serious sales upturn for current excistence Lotus!
on the subject of remaining anonymous, if i get anywhere close to your way this year, is you still up for pulling some corks in person? On me, for sure! I am deffo heading your way later this year, once summer is cooled off, go annoy family and all that. Will prob be with my crackers petrolhead mate, who is usually cursed as the nicest but most stomach turning chauffeur my mom ever had! Well, anyway, that’s the trio we’ll be. Two silly buggers and my mom . .
Hmm some of the extended text from the MPs speech in the House makes even less encouraging reading:
“The fact that KPMG has been appointed with a mandate sell Group Lotus to the Chinese is not an encouraging sign.
“Nor is the fact that the Malaysian banks want their money back from Proton.
“I fear that Proton will say it has decided to keep Lotus – while negotiating with the banks for as long as possible to write-off or reduce debt – and then hand what is left of Group Lotus to the Chinese or liquidate it.”
Youngman? I was once in their shoes.
There’s no need to feel down.
I think the management at Lotus need to realize that… no man does it all by himself, I said, Lotus, put your pride on the shelf, And just go there, to the KPMG, I’m sure they can help you to see. (could think of another word that rhymed with ‘G’)
Actually maybe the Village People hit was a Lotus prophecy….. it came to Dany Bahar in a dream… or an iPod… with thanks to Jerry and John C.
Youngman, there’s a place you can go.
I said, Youngman, when you’re short on your dough.
You can relocate there, and I’m sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time…. (at the expense of Norfolk workers).
That last bit doesn’t quite scan does it.
Joe,
I’ve been on a few times to say this… surely the only way Mr Bahar could only have done this by being in cahoots with the Proton “management” of Nazmi and Zainal. Why else would they sign his contract ?
RAPE. THATS WHAT THIS IS.
Makes me sad to my core.
Why can’t our many billionaires buy our beloved national treasure Lotus.
Brands like Lotus take 100′s of millions and decades to build and a few months to destroy.
Come on Tony Fernandes buy it from under Bahar and Lopez.
Own both Caterham, for lower priced cars, and Lotus for higher price point.
Lopez then advertises your company for free and answers to you!
Force him to do a technical package for Caterham F1 too.
That is surely the ultimate revenge served cold on a plate.
HAHAHA
Hope Bahar & Co all rot in hell.
We love Lotus and the workers there.
Nico
Thank god. Someone who makes me look like a moderate. Good on you Nico!
Nahh, Nick, real extremists just learn to hide their passions under the guise of more eloquent speech!
No Good Thompson’s gone very quiet.
Think he must be the fellow who wrote Dany’s press release that backfired.
I’d like some volunteers to join me in a posse to stand outside The excellent, honest Richard Bacon, MPs house to stop Lotus from going round and doing number twos on his doorstep and bending the radio aerial on his car:
BBC:
Group Lotus did not comment on the Mr Bacon’s comments on Tuesday, but has now issued a short statement saying: “We are disappointed that lots of the facts presented to the House of Commons were inaccurate, but we will sort this with Mr Bacon directly.”
As Harry Hill would say, “I like Lotus, but I also like the MP, so which is best? Only one way to find out…. FIGHT!”
One thing which always disappointed me is the closed minded habit of MPs to disregard issues written in to them by anyone but their constituent potential voters. Remember I was barely 18, and so totally wet, but Charlie Kennedy lived next door, and would be sociable in the local boozer. So I wrote him a long one about the private trust that was being broken that maintained our local hospital. I simply reckoned he had a heart. Even though I shoved it through his letterbox, I got a dry reply from his office, that my own MP should be the person to address. Erm, the whole point is my local MP had been silenced on the matter, so I was reaching out, cross party. No disrespect to Charlie, but it seems they all act on advice which can only be construed as ultimately selfish. By all means, look after your own constituency, but when things matter and are affecting the life we all lead, I think any elected representative should take note. My friend was at that time president or whatever of the young lib dems, he got no joy, either, when expanded to writing local councilors. I guess all my life I have been disappointed how little anyone cares. My politically minded friends now sit in cushy think tanks, and smile at me every so nicely as if to gently try to say i must be so naive, when i ask any serious questions, so that i fear they are bought off. Which in turn, brings me misery of another kind, that such bright kids would end up stifled. But my early experiences I reckon caused a lot of damage to me, in the sense I became very despondent, unhappy and in some regards plain miserable. Which meant i developed nothing further in my own life. I have been in very real personal pain, trying to get to grips with why I have not been more broadly useful in life, and it stings when old friends through work, tell me I could have done better, when anything political is the subject. Small mistakes and misjudgments pile up too readily.
Anyhow, does anyone have any good category ideas for who might matter to form opinion assembling a mail – shot or fax – broadcast?
Email is just not the way, hardcopy by fax or the RM is far more likely to take effect. At least that is my belief.
One of the saddest things is that Danny B must have rubbed so many people the wrong way, that observers in the rest of the industry might well be inclined to see him rot in hell, and be-damned the whole company, staff and economy around it as well. Absolutely the opposite, though: if you are in the UK auto business, you ought to see this as a way to get rid of the bad influences, speak up, and punish fairly who caused the disaster. Just it is always easier to sit by and watch it all fall to pieces.
Since there is i think some unwarranted public confusion as to Joe’s position regards GL, maybe we could take the chat over to your blog, Nick? Especially if people feel they should be writing letters in, doing a bit of lobbying? I mean, if I had the list, I’d quite happily leave my fax machine running for a long weekend, or even longer, if there was a way to summarize the real issues in say two pages that would make sense to regular business owners. I mean, to address who does sway the vote for Mr Bacon. Not saying I have any neat ideas, but I’d be happy to lend a hand. Consider it penance from me, for having a unused social conscience too long. Can’t promise anything save for my attention, in between the usual slog. Maybe I could help with some drafting, or something. let me know, & take care – john
Full text from the Commons debate, lengthy but interesting:
http://www.richardbacon.org.uk/speeches/Lotus_120424_jobs.html
Compared with the eye-watering sums of money tied-up in that 5-vehicle development ‘vision’ Danny has been pushing through for the past few years – I’d suggest neither Bahar’s contract pay-off or the price of a new kitchen extension would really shock the Malaysians…
On the Autocar website today there is a story saying that production is restarting
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/262480/
Iain T
If accurate that’s good as at least fulfilling current orders of which there appear to be many will produce some cash-flow to support the argument for keeping things rolling here in Norfolk. Good.
Joe, Malaysian government has unwound MAS-AirAsia share swap deal, agreed last August at the height of Team Lotus / Group Lotus saga. What is the implication? Could they swap MAS with Group Lotus? Tony Fernandes in trouble?
No idea. I’ve not been following that. I’ll look into it, but I guess that the two were incompatible. Interesting given that the deal included T Fernandes dropping Lotus ambitions. Let’s see what happens next.