There has been speculation about Mark Webber moving to Ferrari since at least June last year, when Ferrari was considering what to do about the problem of Felipe Massa. At the time the Brazilian still had a valid contract and Ferrari was keen to honour that commitment and give Felipe another chance. However, at the time I speculated that “Ferrari wants two drivers who can push one another and if Massa is not the answer one has to ask who would be the best option to replace him. What is needed in such a situation is a solid team performer who does not have ups and downs. Webber may be just such a driver. He is old enough and wise enough to know that his F1 career has a limited term and that there is no point in going beyond that. He is still very competitive and like most drivers would love to be a Ferrari driver. Webber says that he will decide what he wants to do in a while”.
In the end the Scuderia stood by Massa, but in October the Webber story popped up again.
“Ferrari want a driver who will deliver more points than Massa has been delivering in the last two seasons,” I concluded. “For me the choice is fairly clear: Mark Webber is a guy who knows how to be a competitive number two driver. He had his chance of glory in 2010 and it did not work out but he still manages to find the motivation to be a good number two. A few years at Ferrari will round off his career nicely. He and Alonso are friends and Red Bull has made it fairly clear that they want a youngster in alongside SebVet”.
I am pleased to say that the Formula 1 magpies, who steal their stories from the work of others, tend to stay away from me because I have given them a few barium meals over the years which means that they do not know what is true and what is not true – and have no means of checking.
They have no such qualms when it comes to the Spanish press and thus when on Sunday night the Spanish F1 journalist Javier Rubio reported that Mark Webber was the leading candidate to replace Felipe Massa at Ferrari, this was picked up by the magpies and turned into a storm of a story. If one read the original story, however, one can see that Rubio wrote that “although his contract with the Italian team is not signed yet, he may have already established a preliminary agreement to join the team in 2013″.
He also quoted a source close to the deal saying: “It’s done”.
Webber was asked about the stories at the test in Mugello and there has followed a stream of stories about Mark “refuting” and “denying” the initial stories. He has done no such thing.
He said: “There’s a whole season ahead of us before we need to think about the future. One day the talk is about Jenson, then it’s Sergio, now it’s me. I haven’t signed anything. My focus is on this team. We have had a good start to the season, we’re only four races down and the road is very, very long before we start talking about the future.”
This means very little. The fact that Webber has not signed anything, does not mean he is not talking to Ferrari, nor that he does not have a conditional agreement. Yes, there has been speculation about others. Yes, his focus is obviously on Red Bull Racing for the rest of the year, but he and Red Bull may never get round to talking to about their future together… if there is not one.
In recent years Ferrari has had a habit of doing its deals well in advance. Kimi Raikkonen had a conditional Ferrari deal in his pocket for 18 months before he joined the team and Alonso had a similar deal for 2011 which was agreed in 2009. Normally the options that are agreed kick in around August time.
I have been theorising for a short while that as Alonso wants to win and can only do that at Red Bull he might be looking to get out of his Ferrari contract. If this is true, they might swap Mark for FA. discuss?
I would not waste my energy on that one.
Joe, could you please write an informative piece on the following topic ? :
- by the end of 2014 Ferrari will have had Alonso five seasons and no wdc!
[that puts the Webber/Massa controversy in its place]
No
Red Bull will go for Alonso only if they gets a inkling that Vettel has been trying to make a deal with Ferrari…which i don’t think happening in near future(not until end of 2014 season)…
though in F1,situation changes so quickly…
This makes little sense. Alonso doesn’t want to go head to head with Vettel and he has a solid long-term contract with Ferrari (i.e. the most successful racing team of all time)
I don’t think Alonso has any fear of going head to head with anybody, as long as it is genuinely head to head.
His biggest problem which he has spoken about, is he doesn’t want to be in a team that clearly treats the other driver more favourably, as was the situation at Mclaren.
senna, wasn’t alonso only disadvanteged because he blackmailed uncle ron? Surely before that piece of selfish action alonso was given equal treatment by ron, or not? I mean, do you remember monaco?
“In recent years Ferrari has had a habit of doing its deals well in advance. Kimi Raikkonen had a conditional Ferrari deal in his pocket for 18 months before he joined the team and Alonso had a similar deal for 2011 which was agreed in 2009. Normally the options that are agreed kick in around August time.”
Good point, Joe, but these contracts were signed well in advance because both Kimi and Fernando would become Ferrari’s primary driver. Would the same go for what would likely be a stop-gap solution, i.e. Webber taking Massa’s place for one or two seasons, prior to, say, Pérez or Bianchi joining the team alongside Alonso?
Joe, if the deal happens would that make Mark Webber the first Aussie Ferrari driver? Italians do have a liking for Aussies – Casey Stoner bore the burden of Ducati in MotoGP and converted it into a title in 2008, while Troy Bayliss gave the bike manufacturer some of its greatest championships in World Superbikes. Not saying that Webber would be up to any such antics, but it would still be great to see an Australian in the Scuderia.
Yes it would. They have had a Kiwi before (Chris Amon) but not an Ozzie
Thanks for the info, @Jerry
Hope its true. But the rumous has been around for a long time (even before you mentioned it). Annyway we will wait and see..I’ve been disappointed once when I thought he was moving
Webber at Ferrari is a good fit. It’s no secret he’s on good terms with Alonso and he’s fast enough to keep Alonso honest, something Massa has not been in recent times. I think a look at the current points table shows which teams have the best driver lineups: McLaren and Red Bull. Both teams have consistent and fast drivers.
I think he’ll have to decide between Red Bull and Ferrari for next season. The Torro Rosso drivers might be good enough eventually but at the moment they havent shown enough to justify a Red Bull seat. That leaves Red Bull offering Webber another 1 year contract.
Something tells me that Webber still isnt entirely happy with the treatment he receives at Red Bull though. I’m not sure if the situation would be any different at Ferrari where Alonso is a clear number 1 but if I were Webber, i’d take the risk. He’s been so close to Vettel this year that again people’s perceptions of just how fast Webber can be is changing again. Maybe he’d even be as quick as Alonso? If i were Webber I’d take a chance on Ferrari. There’s no Helmut Marko at Ferrari…
And Joe, just imagine all the rumours that will fly around this year before Hamilton re signs with McLaren!! I reckon there will be plenty of “done deal” rumours going around for just about every team on the grid!!
Absolutely right on the Lewis front. He could then be linked to both Mercedes-Benz and Red Bull for next year.
Webber and Alonso appear to get on and respect each other (Spa last year Eau Rouge – what a moment!) – but could Mark put up with number two status? (maybe so for Sqillions)
I agree. Webber would be unlikely to have given up on red bull when it was the clear dominant team, even putting up with his second driver treatment against seb but as we’ve seen so far, though red bull are still capable of leading a championship and Adrian newey doesn’t seem likely to build a crap car anymore, there is at least other competitive teams.
I think an improved ferrari would suit mark down to the ground. He might have to accept second driver status to FA but at least if he signs for that he knows and none of the lingering resentment that he might have been a WDC but for helmut and his bias (I’m not suggesting I agree but it’s clear mark has his concerns).
I think mark at Ferrari might even turn out to push FA more than people think. Perhaps another button to mclaren scenario almost.
The barium meals comment made me chuckle (:O) Do you get some degree of satisfaction when the ‘magpies’ bite and then come unstuck ??
Just a tangential thing, but I would enjoy playing games with the lot who simply scrape Joe’s articles. All sorts we could do, throwing them versions specific to their nasty little grabby bots, with jiggered up things like drivers names swapped about. trapping those until their whole thieving systems broke down. Hmm, swapping some names about could really sink some search rankings, All perfectly legal. I won’t say anything more, in case Joe does do a big upgrade and I can drop him word how to do all that. Not hard. But getting myself up to speed on new ways to deliver websites, things like node.js, and well much more besides, and I can’t help but always be thinking what might be of use here. Recent evenings I’ve been having a good chuckle just at the thought of how easily these parasites could be given a truly hard time in creative ways.
Joe, having butted in a bit of website talk rudely, as usual,
have a look at this setup:
https://www.documentcloud.org/home
and this related discussion:
http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/a-new-view-introducing-doc-viewer-2-0/
all looks very good indeed for better handling long materials, like say that Hansard extract the other day. And for when we find that leaked Concorde – ahem – when we get this flotation prospectus!
Even better, even rusty old me managed to get those presentation bits running pretty easily. (the collaborative editing etc will take a bit of proper effort)
Geek note: I mention node.js because I’m fascinated that people have been making really decent ipad apps using these technologies. This is all very pertinent to one of my active projects, a epic book, but could easily (getting to grips with again similar missing parts now) overlap to something for GP+.
I’d be very keen to see MW go to Ferrari.
I think it would be a fitting end to the workmanlike career that Mark has forged for himself, from very humble beginnings.
I’d love to Webber at the prancing horse, it would be fascinating.
As far as this season goes, RedBull seems to be doing well while Ferrari is having a really difficult start.
Of course things keep changing season to season anyway but isn’t the goal of any driver to be in the best possible team in order to secure more easily a champion title?
And Red Bull has won two years in a row (and currently leading), in part thanks to Webber’s hard job.
Webber is also third right now – he must still believe he can do better than play a second driver role.
So, it’s gonna be a tough choice for him I think…
All very interesting, and with implications for other teams as well. Assuming Webber does end up in Ferrari, I wonder what that would do to the intentions of Sergio Pérez. He may be able to do a third year at Sauber, but then what? I do not see that team becoming contenders, and I think if is fair to say that the kid is just getting better all the time. At some point he’s going to need a better car.
Also, I’d imagine that Webber would not want just a one year deal at Ferrari, and I’d reckon that he is good enough to avoid ending like Fisichella a few years back, so the team might be keen on keeping him a while longer.
All very intriguing indeed.
Barium meals? so how do we poor readers know what is true or not??!!
Once in a blue moon it does not hurt…
and that should lead nicely later on in the season to the “Lewis” question. Who has not signed a new contract with McLaren for a very interesting reason. Soon to be surfacing.
Dear all
Hmm, seem to recall going through this conflict a few years back- when a driver you idolise joins the team you very much don’t (Nigel Mansell, back then).
Can only hope, for Mark’s sake, that Ferrari produces a fully competitive car.
If that be what happens.
Don’t know what you have against magpies, Joe. Intelligent, courageous, very protective of their youmg, make a beautiful noise. In Australia, we have a vile creature known as the Currawong. Looks like a cross between a Magpie and a Crow. Beady yellow eyes, sneaky, gutless, robs nests and eats the young.
Cheers
MarkR
Think it was about Mansell time that Ferrari became the team to dislike intensely on my list, joined now by Caterham and HRT. But if Mark gets there I’ll just have to learn to like them again as I have great respect for the man.
Is Ricciardo that youngster RedBull would rather have in place? It seems the sport has moved ever-younger, as long as the driver has the potential of being a champion. Ricciardo seems inexperienced (albeit fast) to land one of the top rides in the world… but if in fact that’s where the top teams are headed these days, would not Ferrari also decide on that route and go with Perez over Webber?
I believe it is between Ricciardo and Vergne
Thanks Joe. I think the more interesting point is whether Webber would want to move to Ferrari to a car which, if the past few seasons are a representative sample, may not be as quick as the Red Bull. I’m sure every driver would like to drive for the prancing horse but not if they have to trade in a rapid Red Bull…
This saying nothing of the scrutiny that the Italian media put on the drivers and team. Does Webber really need or want that?
I can imagine Ferrari would pay Webber a rather nice salary to have him on board. He would bring useful knowledge from a key competitor, plus proven speed and experience. Mark Webber, Ferrari driver, has a decent ring to it. But he will be told in very clear terms…this is Alonso’s team!
Aa nice two-year stint at Ferrari would round off his career nicely.
One of the good guys.
all this 2013 silly season talk this is what i can see happening.. Webber to Ferrari, Hamilton to Mercedes (replacing MS), Paul Di Resta to Mclaren?
I also would like to see MW make that move. Completes his tour. Like Mike Spencer says “workmanlike”. I think Ferrari could well do with a bit of Mark’s straight play. But who says he needs to quit after say 2 more years? I do hope something gives to set his pace free. A change can’t hurt, so long as to a team with a chance.
What about Kubica? I suspect he may of had something in his pocket, but wouldn’t be a great move to step from recovery to Ferrari directly. Maybe a season getting his eye in further down the grid – or even ahead on the grid the way Ferraris car is handling
I think you may be overestimating his ability to recovery from such an injury.
Whether he comes back to F1 is questionable, but it seems that he hasn’t lost a lot of his rally skills:
I don’t think you can tell very much from these clips
It was confirmed that Robert was not driving in this video. The comment from the team was that Robert also drove on the same day but at a lower level.
I just want to hear Robert is okay. I get so emotional about him, Schoolfriend of mine, real close, bust his hand bad, in a skiing accident, meant at a tender age he could not take a string at maybe the best orchestra. Bloody outstanding, he was. The f’er threw himself from a train, in depression and frustration. Teenager. So whatever I feel so far removed, I catch human pain from not knowing how Robert K is, or when he will speak out he feels okay. But I don’t want to pry. Loosing such a great ability is devastating. I think the pressures put on many I grew up with were of the same order what a young driver goes through. Compared with many of them, I did pretty good. Though, i must say it, this was not a background where parents pushed, so much as expected. I still cannot finish DT’s book, The Lost Generation. Just chokes me every time I pick it up. My friends went even younger. Even sadder, I was woken up not a couple of years ago by another gone, trying for a sporting record. That one awoke so much pain. Moreso because she was my first squeeze ever, or rather she held my hand. So I can totally understand why Robert K is keeping quiet. You don’t need the lot of us clamoring for him to do this or that. But thank you for the clip, I take a lot of heart in it. He lives. Testament to modern medicine, and his own faith in himself, he lives. Sorry, emotional, but it has to be up to him, when he decides to get vocal, and I bet you he won’t talk about what he missed, only what he can do. I do hope I can follow his career sometime soon, but until then, I feel like a voyeur. When he does come back, the way he wants it, however, that will be a wonderful thing to rejoice. Talking a bit more than just driving a car, here. Bless you, Robert!
By accident, I just cued up Robert’s drive same time as Heart, Wild Child, from the “Heart” album. Just really synched up good. If you don’t dislike 80s pop rock, just set them going same time, feels really good. Driving seems perfectly in time, boy racer teenage dreams you could never attain. Link to the song track here: http://goo.gl/AGqRf . . Only when the driving was over, the song sounded far less good. Not kidding you, it synchs really well until the drive ends.
Could you clarify to those of us who may be new to your site on what you are referring to when you speak about “Formula 1 magpies?” I am not sure what that term means.
The term means the many many websites that have never had any access to a Grand Prix paddock, who survive by taking their news from the few publications that do have access. The extreme version of this is organisations which repackage other people’s news and sell it to unsuspecting schmucks who think they are getting inside information.
The barium reference is fantastic.
Are they not permitted access, or does the habit of attending races require more effort than they care to undertake? Apart from the travel costs, are there barriers to those who can are qualified?
Also, are some journalists aided by F1 or by some of the teams? I don’t mean in an unscrupulous way, but rather in the sense that (in the USA, I don’t know about elsewhere) big league sports teams have journalists from their home city travel with the team at team expense, as ample press coverage is deemed good for the team. Is there any similar to aid reporters in F1? If Bernie is flying ample cargo all over creation, does he make room for some of the press as well?
No-one helps the journalists, at least as far as I know. There are some who are taken as guests to occasional events, but the rest of us pay our way, with very few concessions
That’s just poor. The junkets for geek magazines about tech treat people better. I did hold a NUJ card, and was taken off to Monaco, e.g. For what? Bleeding conference on mobile phones. Cannes for MipTV. And so on . . My audience – if I wrote a obvious advertorial (how I blagged the card, not the most discriminating of processes) – far less than Joe’s. Far far less in these niches.
F1 should treat its people better.
The upshot?
Well, people who genuinely cared to write would drown out the magpies.
I was never given a party budget, just enough to get there and back. But you can live well from the hospitality.Think on your feet and all that, Wedding Crasher style a bit.
F1 gets far from good enough coverage. It good here, from Joe who is not a puppet. But you can get good coverage positively from a wider field, also, if you set about it the right way. Who reads them, might end up subscribing to Joe, for the straight dope, but if you don’t have people reading, well, no game at all. This is especially true for American coverage. But you do this, make it fair to all. As in, airfare paid, some digs, you won’t starve. Think about it, does Joe live any better at the races than a kiddo gofer? No. But you could take his mind off all the bother of getting there, so he can write *more* about your sport.
The quality of reporting overall would benefit, by reducing this burden on who is good, and letting in who has the passion, who would learn from who is really there. This is not a zero sum game for anyone.
Why is the F1 website not a portal to all the coverage?
Stopping there, or else I shall have a fit at all the positive things which are not done. There should not even be magpie reporters. Get them there, because having websites which are well known to never be there actually hurts the sport. How many people get suckered by that kind of rot? How many then think F1 is all bunk? I’d not let that be. Readers gravitate to the good stuff anyhow, in the end. Push out the bad with the new good. Who will be Joe, in 30 years time? Seriously, this is a wasted and valuable thing.
But F1 is the biggest magpie of all. It thinks it can take all the baubles out of everyone’s nests. Only men of steel and cockroaches survive. The cockroaches of course, don’t report, but spoil your kitchen and make you ick and jump.We all deserve better.
Ahhhhh I understand. I have always hated seeing recycled news that came from a source not of their own. They somehow justify it to themselves that because they wrote it in some different fashion, that they can completely bypass the fact that they have committed some sort of plagiarism.
I have no problem if it is a community site where folks post up their opinions and actually source the original work/ news write up. In fact I have written for one of those type of sites. However, there was a point where the admins of this site wanted me to start taking news from autosport, gpupdate, etc and rewrite whatever they had into something “original” without crediting the source. The site administrators wanted this to happen in order to ensure that they have more site visits.
I said no and I no longer post on that site. Some other lackey does. I can only imagine how much of a thorn/problem these sites cause for credible journalists that actually do the legwork and build their own sources.
When a site that claims to be reporting NEWS and does so without access to a Grand Prix paddock or any real credentials..then that is a whole other moral issue in and of itself. I certainly hope you have stuck it to em a few times and continue to do so
.
Thanks for the reply Joe !
Now silly season has been evoked, id like my ounce of silly if thats ok. i think Webber will indeed partner Alonso and Hamilton will be going to RB. Utter nonsense i hear you cry. Why would they put SV in a precarious position. For two reasons. Hamilton wants to be with Newey, who wouldn’t. And Mr RB himself just won’t be able to help himself having potentially the strongest line up in F1. “we must win at all costs!!” The line from RB that they are not interested in Hamilton is to be expected. What are they going to say “yes, we indeed intent to take him from the clutches of Mclaren”
Alonso at red bull, ”NO CHANCE” alonso is too dear for the driver budget and there are a lot of talented drivers in the red bull academy. Not that red bull cant afford alonso but i think its against what they stand for. Joe i like the quipe giving the f1 magpies a few barium meals, very witty indeed. As far as webber going to ferrari, he might have signed something but not the final contract, It makes scence for ferrari, alonso with a great shotgun partner and for webber to finalise his golden years with the scarlet team, this would be heaven for ferrari, for montezemolo and for the tiffosi and back to their winning ways. maybe, only if…………..
………….he signs the contract.
But will Webbo move over when the pit reports “Alonso is faster then you”?
I think and hope not!
Hopefully the schmuck on the pit wall will follow Massa.
Mark seems to have developed a few radio issues in the past couple of years… I’m sure he could carry his knack with communications breakdown if needed…
Goes something like this I’d expect on pit-radio:
Smedley: “Alonso is faster then you Mark. Confirm you understand this message.”
Webber: “Understood mate…. and with that extra speed, he’ll be able to make the pass, won’t he!”
(paraphrased from a witty F1-fanatic blogger). JF
nice one – and that will be the end of a beautiful MW/FA relationship
The sad part of the whole thing is the plummet that Massa’s career has taken. Is it as simple as never quite recovering from the spring to the head? Or the psychological impact of being nipped by Lewis in Brazil? In any case, not so long ago he was considered quite promising. I wish him well, but he just doesn’t seem to have the pace anymore. Sad.
Hi Joe,
Do you think that Kubica will feature at all in the Ferrari driver merry go round?
Also, a little off topic but have you heard any more regarding the ‘RUSH’ movie at Blackbush?
Thanks,
Mike
Mike, if you want very frequently updated “Rush” news then I suggest you follow Ron Howard’s Twitter feed (@RealRonHoward) as he’s been updating it with 6-8 pictures daily. Looks as though they’ve been having sessions at Nurburgring and some non-race locations since they were at Blackbushe, and are currently shooting at Snetterton. It’s been informative and very interesting, with plenty of great shots of mid-’70s F1 machinery in action!
As for Kubica… from the very few photos I’ve seen of his arm post-op (admittedly distant and grainy) it very much looks as though his forearm isn’t even straight anymore. Quite what that must have done to the poor chap’s motor skills is anyone’s guess.
Thanks for the info, very interesting, sorry to hear about kubica though
Mike
That is the question? no, shouldnt be aloud. but i think alonsos contract is like schumachers when at ferrari i think.
Speaks well of Mark that he has so much interest here, he’s a real gentleman and I hope he does jump to Ferrari where he may just get the respect he deserves.
Would love to see Webber at Ferrari. I’ve never supported the scarlet cars, not sure why, but I might have to re-assess with MW in there. I think it’d widen the brand appeal too.
I’m not sure if it’d be the fastest line up but it’d definitely be the most scrappy (in a good way). I think both MW and FA are the best representations of drivers who like a good fight and are happy to battle away even from a bad start without giving up.
It all makes some sense, but only if Perez is out of question. Ferrari would have to go bonkers to let go the very fast and very well funded mexican in exchange for a guy a season or two away from his retirement just to please Alonso.
Joe – it has often been said that Alonso has been able to make the best out of the supposedly poor Ferrari car through the virtue of his adaptability and that Massa does not have this skill (or not to the same extent). Given that Webber was unable to adapt to last year’s RB as well as SebVet, do you think that Webber would have the ability to adapt and get the best out of a “difficult” Ferrari? Webber is no doubt a good driver, but I question whether he would be able to do anything different to Massa under the current circumstances at Ferrari.
Except Helmut reckons that all he needs is four wheels (in contrast to Seb), commenting on Mark’s ability to make the pre-AD car work where Seb was having difficulty.
On the other hand you could argue that Webber adapted much better than Seb to the demands of the hot-blown diffuser set up in 2010. He was much earlier to realise that the best way to work the car was to turn in late, get it straight sooner and then get back on the gas. That required a fundamental shift in his braking, turn in and throttle control, which Seb didn’t seem to be able to do. With a return to passive (or at least greatly reduced) diffuser blowing you could argue that what’s made the difference this year isn’t so much that Mark’s been unable to adapt to the new car, but that Seb hasn’t been as hampered by it. I have no idea if I’m right, but it’s another way of framing the argument.
Of Course! I’d love to Webber at the prancing horse, it would be fascinating.