There is a blistering irony in the suggestion that exiled Formula 1 team boss Flavio Briatore is busy writing the rules for a new series called GP1. Briatore writing rules? That is like handing over the keys to the bank to Bonnie and Clyde.
Let us not forget that this Briatore person was busted from the sport for his role in the race fixing events in Singapore back in 2008. Initially he was banned for life but because the FIA (a previous regime) was sloppy in its judicial processes and that overstepped the mark and the Italian was able to win a settlement after applying lots of lawyers to the problem and dressing up as an injured party. It was decided that he would not be allowed into F1 for five years. Team personnel must also now apply for a licence to take part in the sport and there is really no good reason why he should be granted one.
Thankfully, it is fairly clear that the idea of a GP1 Series is simply a lever in negotiations over a new Concorde Agreement with the FIA. GP1 is not a very good lever because unless the FIA is behind it, it will never get the “World Championship” tag and this is what the teams and car manufacturers are after. The FIA has the right to designate such status and everyone else has to make do with nomenclature such as World Cup and World Series, which is not the same thing at all – and everyone knows that.
A switch away from Formula 1 is also a waste of 62 years of heritage. Rumours may say that Ferrari is keen on the idea and if that is the case, then the Italian team should be given no sympathy at all. It uses its importance and heritage in F1 to extricate extra money from the sport and thus it would be wise to support the sport, rather than selling out to another enterprise. That would add to the impression that Ferrari would do anything for money.
When all is said and done the sport gets what it deserves and if it deserves GP1 then it will get it.
GP2, the previous championship which was promoted by Briatore and is now owned by the Formula One group is a major league rip-off. Teams cannot use parts unless they are supplied by he series, and these are supplied at a huge premium to normal prices. The cars are expensive and not very well-engineered. It is basically a pretty shoddy money-generator, which owes its limited success to the fact that, running alongside F1, it gives the drivers exposure, which rival championships cannot not provide. The running time is limited.
The quality of the drivers drops off very quickly after the top two or three teams with most of the field being there because they have money and the less well-heeled going to the Renault World Series or Formula 2.
Having said that the entire structure of the junior formulae is not perfect. There is far too much clutter and, in any case, very few drivers are getting into F1 without large sums of money behind them and those that are are being signed up when they are teenagers. The FIA is looking at a completely restructuring of single-seater racing in order to make it more accessible. Gerhard Berger heads a commission doing that job.
GP2 was sold on the basis that it would be cheaper than the existing Formula 3000. That did not last long. It has been a “nice little earner” for the boys for many years.
The sport has been exploited mercilessly for more than a generation now and the time is right for a change. It would be foolish for the sport to dive head-first into another such arrangement.
joeblogsf1 
“…unless the FIA is behind it, it will never get the “World Championship” tag”
I’ve often wondered why that’s the case – has the FIA trademarked those two words in all the relevant markets?
No Roger, but as its the acknowledged worldwide motorsports federation and in that role it has the sole right to designate what is its official world championship series.
But that doesn’t answer the question. Joe said/implied that no-one else can run a “World Championship”. If the FIA haven’t trademarked that term everywhere, then I don’t see what’s to stop anyone running a “World Championship” – it just wouldn’t be FIAT each, bit in that case ,that would be the whole moi.t of the exercise.
I do not believe that anyone can run a World Championship in relation to automobile sport, other than the FIA.
That may be the popular perception, but I doubt that it is true. Go look up the IODP and read about how and why they came into existence.
http://www.iopd.org.uk
Now, now Joe – stop sitting on the fence, tell us what you really think!!!
Joe, has anyone ever questioned the legality of the FIA “monopoly” on the phrase “World Championship”?
Yeah, and he achieved far, far, far, far, far more in F1 and in life than you ever will.
Hurts, don’t it?!
No. Next question?
LOL! Joe has a soul, Flavio doesn’t. The Flav is, for lack of a better term, a scumbag and is going to hell.
If the only way you can get on in life is by cheating, then you will always be remembered for that, NOT what you achieved.
And your freidns will always remember you – if you have any…
“Win if you can, lose if you must, but ALWAYS CHEAT…” – Jesse Ventura
Percy
Maybe, if you are going to take potshots, have the guts to put your name, in ull at the top of your entry-( the one on your birth or hatching certificate, whichever it is)
What do you mean by “achieved”? “Broke the rules repeatedly, and put lives at risk doing so”? “Underhandedly cheated?”
“brought the sport into disrepute, again and again and again”?
Now, I don’t know you, or your real name, but, I am willing to bet that Joe has acheived far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far more in f1 and life than you have, mate. So, here’s a friendly suggestion- if you don’t like what is written here, don’t read it, AND, don’t be a gutless, anonymous scumbag. Instead, why don’t you F#^k back off to where you came from, and, when you get there, remember to pull that rock back over yourself.
Have a nice day.
MarkR
Percy (or whomever you are),
Joe has class (integrity). This briatore (lower-case “b” intentionally) creature, and those of his ilk, wouldn’t know class if it walked up to them and slapped ’em up-side the head!
Please slither away to whence you came.
MOST sincerely,
Tim
Percy… I am just dying to hear your list of achievements. And what exactly did Flavio actually achieve? Is souring your name and becoming the scumbag of motorsport merit-worthy or something?
Joe- if Formula 1 is basically a stable money earner, and probably not going anywhere regardless of talk and unsigned concorde agreements, can’t someone buy the Formula 1 Group by the leveraging the debt against the assest? In other words guarentee your loans against the sport.
If so, does it matter who that someone is, because the debt is equally secured? If something goes wrong, the lender can take ownership of F1 to recover their money.
Which brings me to the idea, that couldn’t the FIA just buy it and united the ownership and rules together? They could then lease out the rights to run and promote the sport for ten years say, at a guarenteed fixed price that would cover the loan repayments on the debt. In so doing make the aquisition and debt near zero risk. The promoter would be 99% ensured to earn more cash than the yearly lease, to make that attractive.
This would work if you were asset manager at goldman sacks.
I suspect GP1 will go the way of A1. Let Sleazy Cheaty Flav lose lots of money and see who cries over him.
I can’t see Ferrari ever leaving F1. They make a lot of noise about it to try to improve their bargaining position, but as you say the sport is as valuable to them as they are to the sport.
It maybe a case of “everything was better in the old days” but as a young man I loved Formula 2, it was epic racing, beautiful and varied cars, and especially established stars mixing it with the new up and comings. I miss it greatly.
Hi Joe, good article and interesting to hear your thoughts on the feeder series.
Is there a legal reason why “world championship” could not be used by a rival? I wouldn’t have thought the term could be copyrighted. Could not the same (unsatisfactory) situation arise as you have in boxing – multiple governing bodies with multiple world champions
Because the FIA is the global body and accepted as such by the United Nations, Uncle Tom Cobbley and even the man with a bone through his nose from Papua New Guinea
I so wanted to post your answer via twitter without redacting but totally not possible just too long and too wholesome to take apart
Was reading Redmond O’Hanlon the other week — apparently it ain’t only the nose the bones go through…
In principle someone could set up an alternative governing body (see Boxing for the godawful effects of going down this route) – but it would require sufficient appetite from potential national members to support it.
A post once written by a man named Joe Saward on June 22nd, 2009, “En Route to Paris”. Thankfully for myself I have a great memory to recall these things.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2009/06/22/en-route-to-paris/
“The fact was that Mosley won the vote and an Arab gentleman later admitted that he had personally organized the necessary votes. A few months later said gent became FIA Vice President. These sort of things say much about the way an organisation works. You can call it politics if you like…
The aim in politics is to be in power. Being in opposition is dull.
At the time a number of big FIA clubs expressed their distaste at the result of the no confidence vote. They are still out there and they may think that once again they to try to remove Mosley. They might not. Who knows? They might also see a breakaway in F1 as being an opportunity. FOTA needs a sanctioning body and would be quite entitled to ask the American Automobile Association if it would like be run the AAA Formula 1 World Championship. No-one owns the rights to that. The FIA might then decide to expel the AAA but in doing so it would wipe out 50% of it’s membership as the AAA is a huge club. And there might be other clubs happy to join a rival US-inspired federation. I am not saying this will happen, rather that it could… So the FIA World Council members must bear these sort of things in mind when they get into their discussions about F1.”
That is entirely different. AAA was an FIA member club. If it broke away, it could claim the FIA’s rights. That is not the same thing as you are implying at all.
Frankly, I have lost all faith in the FIA coming up with a restructured feeder system after they attached their brand to Mr Palmer’s vehicle that was largely there to promote his offspring.
That was not the current FIA, but rather the previous administration. The current one os doing it now with Berger.
It’s not exactly GP1 (atm) as that is owned by Mr.E
Briatore and the easily led Montezemolo have approached the FIA with a view to setting up a rival series to F1, they hope that the FIA will prefer their payment structure and contracts rather than the new Concorde currently being negotiated for F1 … It’s more a case of the FIA playing the Flav card hoping for a renegotiation of their deal with FOM.
The series ethos is basically the same as was F3000 to F1 in the turbo years.
Flavio and the FIA? No, I don’t see that happening. I agree that Mr E owns GP1.
Flav’ is trying to get multiple parties interested in the same thing, so as to get back into motorsport (where he vehemently denies he wants to be).
The FIA have recently taken back rallying without the EU bating an eyelid, and have been encouraged by this. They want to renegotiate their F1 income at the very least, and with Flav’s attempted power grab of 2009 still hurting him he sees a light at the end of either the FIA’s tunnel, or Mr.E’s, assuming the FIA insist on a large amount of money the teams or CVC are reluctant to pay … But if the teams can re-negotiate their terms every other month, then why not the FIA.
@Alex Hooren (@alexh2o)
The EU put a stop to that, but as I’ve mentioned, the EU seem to have turned a blind eye to the FIA and rallying, although rallying only gets a similar size audience to F1 on Sky (very low), so maybe there’s no threat to the interests of certain individuals there.
Please start your own blog 😉
Noting which stories Karen does, and does not, choose to comment on is almost as revealing as the comments themselves…
O dear.
😉 Where does that leave Bernie and his Concorde with Ferrari?
This seems pathetically silly and transparent. Why would Ferrari, the FIA, or the teams trust Briatore?
Flav IS Bernie’s man. The entire sport knows this, so why is Bernie having Flav dance this jig?
Bernie has won, he has his new Concorde agreement. Why bother with this transparent charade?
Briatore? Oh dear oh dear.
It’s quite a romantic thought that once upon a time a driver could start in FF1600 and if he was good enough or had suitable backing, progress to FF2000 the following year. After that was usually F3 and while a few talents went straight to F1 there was F2/3000 and then F1. Now Formula Ford has been ruined with bad decision (Zetec) after bad decision (Eco-Boost) by Ford, so the first logical step for a new driver is Formula Renault, which was scrapped in the UK this year because not enough drivers were interested, or more likely who could afford it.
Looking further up the ladder, how many competing “mid level” series are there? It’s an absolute joke! Very interesting to see a number of GP2 drivers jump ship to WSR this year. I’m not sure which series is technically better or more exciting to follow, but I hope for their sakes it works.
I don’t mind them restructuring the lower formulae to make it easier/fairer/more logical for young drivers to get to F1 but I think
(a) we need to leave space to remember that not everyone can and will get to F1, and just because they don’t doesn’t mean they’re not decent drivers and can’t carve out decent careers in single-seaters and
(b) having multiple paths and therefore multiple options is not necessarily a bad thing for young drivers.
The mantra needs to be pyramid, not ladder, in my opinion.
As ive blogged before, Ferrari is such a team that cannot be trusted as far as money and power is concerned. Surley the other teams didnt think that as far as fota was concerned that ferrari would be loyal, no, they hung out for a better offer and sod the others.Maybe they were a spy in the fota camp for bernie and the fia.Sorry ferrari stinks…..
Oh and the sport is better without the likes of flavio the cheat, we must not forget 2008 singapore……Maybe other team bosses wont wnt to be associated with him….
I’d love to know by what right the FIA can control the use of the term “World Championship”. They are a private organisation, not governmental, and merely represent the interests of the global motoring industry. They have no legal power of sanction except for their own events, and if somebody else wanted to set up a “GP1 World Championship” then they really can’t stop them.
Yes… but the ‘new’ series or governing body would have a mountain to climb to achieve relative credibility. The advancements in safety etc. that the FIA have overseen combined with the history and heritage gives them credit. They have their place at the top pretty much nailed down solid.
Joe,
This story does not make a lot of sense to me. You suggest Ferrari might be behind it, but they have agreed a deal. The only team that might benefit from a breakaway is Mercedes. Who is Flavio Briatore friend and former business partner? Good old Bernie E! So why would he want to have an alternative rumored? I think it is further evidence of the desire of some parties to torpedo the floatation. As the Mail is reporting Flavio Briatore is in Monaco entertaining on his boat, I doubt he really is writing rules. This is all a bluff, the real question is for who? Time for the mole to get to work.
There are different levels to the politics of F1. You are on the wrong one.
I’ve read, much to my surprise, that Briatore was writing the rules for the new Formula for 2014 1.6L engines which seemed way too surreal. Now with the GP1 “clarification” it becomes a little bit understandable.
I don’t remember where I’ve read it but the piece was suggesting that Briatore was keen on getting rid of wings and significantly reduce aero impact. In all honesty, the romantic in me would like to see 1965 style cars with updated mechanicals whizzing around the tracks of old, but I have to agree that the times have changed and I have to adapt to the boxer nosed, oddly proportioned narrow cars. I’ve been watching F1 since 1988, and I will be watching it whatever they come up with, good or bad, but from time to time, I find myself wishing that a new series rivaling F1 gets started with less aerodynamics that relies on more mechanical grip.
This years F1 is about mechanical grip with the 2012 tyres and who can get them working. Everyone seems to have forgotten this!
Incorrect. This year’s F1 is all about the teams’ prayers on having a track temperature that will suit their car setup, is being heard or not.
No, it is about engineers not yet understanding how the tyres work. The first team that figures it out will probably win the championship.
Agreed. Should have clarified my first comment with a “For now.”
“the less well-heeled going to the Renault World Series or Formula 2.”
FR3.5 (part of the Renault World Series) in circa €1m. F2 is more akin to Formula Renault in quality and sits below any F3 series in all but name.
Joe, I’m looking for info ,for the Audience with Joe in Montreal, anything forthcoming? My next question is about a mile off the topic, but since you are plugged into the business in motorsports, I might get an answer from you. Who is supplying the god-awful Lotus engines in Indycar, are they rebadged something elses?
Yes, I am having one. I will give details tomorrow or Monday
The “Lotus” engines are courtesy of Judd.
Rumor has it that Lotus has been told that they will not be allowed to start the I500 as 15mph off the leader is a danger to the field. I rather suspect that it will be a case of ‘start and park’ that will happen instead so they can keep fooling themselves that 33 cars means something.
The numbers calculated by most are 3 laps before Will Power comes across the first of the Lotus cars. What has staggered most around Indy was the fact that Lotus was allowed extra boost during Jean’s rookie test as he couldn’t get above 205mph – no where near the 210mph minimum needed to pass the 2nd part of the test. His charming teammate was stuck at 202mph.
So what does the Rodeo Clown (it’s what we call him around here.) do? He allows a boost increase just for the test and then when Jean gets slightly above 210 and passes this redundant test – he then disallows the increase for qualifying and the race.
No one understands the logic in this move as the engine simply won’t get better in a week or so. There is no money and no time for magic to happen – this isn’t a happy ending movie here folks. John Judd must be beside himself – Jean must already have his flight booked back to France for about a little past 12:04PM local on sunday…
And let’s not forget whose ‘nice little earner it is’ — Flav and company
The blistering irony is that Flavio Briatore and Vi Jay Mallay have been appointed as editors for all Formula One journalists!
Or did i just make that up… 😉
The sport’s more entertaining with Briatore in than out.
Joe your hatred of this man is inexplicable.. Unless it’s something personal that we don’t know about.
Crid,
If you do not understand what is wrong with Briatore, then you do not know the sport very well.
You have to stop confusing F1 with sport. That ended a long time ago.
Please explain to me in detail how F1 is not a sport… and I will return the favor by explaining in great detail why you are a complete moron.
It’s not that Briatore isn’t a questionable individual, he is in spades. Still, there’s is a strong whiff of hypocrisy every time he’s slated here.
There are others throughout the sport who have done things every bit as shady as Flav. For instance, Briatore’s transgressions pale in comparison to those of the previous FIA chief, yet the times I’ve read severe criticism of him by Joe I could count on one hand – and have a few fingers left over.
By any real measure, Mad Max did infinitely more damage to the sport. In fact, it’s been reported that both Max and Bernie had full knowledge of some of Briatore’s worst incidences of cheating – then actively worked to cover them up.
As for the commercial rights holder himself – Mr E has partaken in so many questionable actions they’re almost impossible to list, yet he isn’t regularly slated here either.
Knowing journalists is the sport, I fully realize the reasons these others have received a pass – not just from Joe, but pretty much anyone that retains a paddock pass. Still, I don’t find it particularly forthright to give this special attention only to the devils who haven’t the power to apply consequences.
> For instance, Briatore’s transgressions pale in comparison to those of the previous FIA chief, yet the times I’ve read severe criticism of him by Joe I could count on one hand – and have a few fingers left over.
You obviously weren’t reading the same Joe Saward that I was a few years ago! And I’m talking about well before the NotW scandal…
@Crid:
Are you serious? You didn´t even consider looking him up on the wiki? You don´t think a race fixing scandal, creating a very dangerous situation for the drivers, the subsequent ban and kick from F1 is serious? Joe don´t have to hate Briatore, but the dislie of the man is pretty much universal. Read a book.
He is s slimy guy who when he first managed the Benetton team had no interest in the sport and is only interested in winning at any cost. I still believe he has no interest in the engineering and crops up still because of his business dealings. The worst thing that could happen to the sport right now is involve itself with Flavio.
@benf:
I have always seen Flabbio as a ruthless and money grapping idividual. And yes, hehas only been interested in the sport for personal gains.
> You don´t think a race fixing scandal, creating
> a very dangerous situation for the drivers,
> the subsequent ban and kick from F1 is serious?
I just don’t buy the narrative that the FIA, FOM, Renault and our host Mr. Saward are offering for these events… There are too many naked gaps in the story: http://tinyurl.com/7cqc9xk
Of course, I don’t think Symonds, Briatore, or the Piquets are being straight with us, either. It doesn’t matter… The point is to be entertaining, and ALL of them, including Joe Saward, succeed at that.
The only angle by which I can get upset about this is wanton disregard for safety… And in the final analysis, that responsibility rested most heavily with Nelsinho. For reasons not clear to me, all parties involved have muddied the waters and paid each other off such that responsibility cannot be better assigned.
Which sucks.
But it’s a sports franchise, not a public trust. I was surprised that the mayor of Singapore didn’t dropkick the whole circus off the island for endangering his citizens when they came back to race in 2009… But if the Singaporeans are cool with it, and no one’s had the good sense to press criminal charges, then the judgment of fans doesn’t count for much, does it?
It’s a shame. The truth would make a great book, but it will never be written.
Crid,
I do NOT, like you or others, hold Piquet MOST responsible! It was the gestation of a perverse and twisted mind (briatore). How many people can HONESTLY say that they’ve stood-up to the boss? With their, not just present job, but entire career, at stake. You really are scary!
Tim
Is the only requirement for you is that it be “entertaining”?
If so, may I point you in the direction of US “professional wrestling” as i believe that this may be more to your tastes?
“The judgement of fans doen’t count for much, does it?”
I laughed so hard when I read this. Easily the most idiotic thing you have said yet.
Your logic (or lack of) really is scary.
Crid,
if you find deliberately endangering people’s lives “entertaining”, then I wonder, do you also find the disuse of the Coliseum in Roma inexplicable?
The word is CONSCIENCE. Bottom-line! Wow, just wow!
> if you find deliberately endangering people’s
> lives “entertaining”
You musta skipped past the part where I talked about “wanton disregard for safety”. Commenters who are in a hurry to cluck like hens often miss things like that.
> If so, may I point you in the direction of
You could, but I’d tell you to bend down and
> How many people can HONESTLY say that
> they’ve stood-up to the boss?
When asked to risk their own lives, those of professional competitors, and innocents standing nearby? Quite a few, I should thing. There’s more to life than a career.
Beh!
I have said this before, but somehow we should have a structure where the two bottom teams in F1 drop down to F2, and the winners & runners up of F2 move up to F1. We see this sort of thing in many sports around the world. It does work.
I am sure there are a million things that all of us arm chair experts can find to say a F2 winner should have the right to race in F1, but that it would never work out because of……start the list here.
If you look through the history of F1 from say 1980 onwards, which is when I started going to races, then the list is extremely long, for a number of reasons. Also if say winning the F2 championship gives you the right to race in F1, then money would flow into F2 and so would good young drivers believe they have a good chance of racing in F1.
I also think that TV would show more F2 races than they do now. I know Karen said that the rights to F2 were given back, but if you look at say the TV shows for our Football in the UK, then viewing figures for the League show on BBCTV are actually pretty good, and it is a way to spot the new talent.
if i wanted to watch football i’d watch football….
Thebrav3
I am not a big football fan, but for an example it is done in football all across Europe, and there are pretty big sums of money involved, plus TV rights. The football league system also works in other countries apart from just Europe.
We see it in Ice Hockey, Baseball, Basketball and Rugby. We see the movement of winners and losers even in college sports ranking tables in America for example. You see it in Tennis with the countries playing each other.
So in theory the movement of the last place team is dropped down a division and the winner of the lower division moves up. Why not in Motor racing. It could be possible.
Difference being, football teams all play the same sport. F2 (or GP2) is not the same sport as F1. The idea that a GP2 team could step up to F1 and be able to compete on an equal footing is farcical. The suggestion does rather point to a glaring lack of knowledge.
Keith
The biggest problem, I think, is that the results of the promotion/relegation would not be known until quite late in the year. That gives the teams to be promoted little time in which to scale up their resources, design and manufacture two cars, go testing in February etc.
Consider the time that it has taken Caterham, Marussia and HRT, well into their third season now, and they have progressed how far? In terms of laptime I suspect they are closer to the tail of the established teams but in terms of position they have progressed nowhere, so far.
In a promotion/relegation system I think it is likely that you would swap HRT and Marussia for two different teams that would struggle just liike they have. So, after one struggling season the HRT and Marussia replacement teams would be relegated and replaced by two more HRT and Marussia type teams. The relegated teams would also have built up a staff level that was much too top-heavy for GP2 or whichever formula they chose to do after relegation, and that means redundancies, downsizing of premises etc.
Sorry if this seems too negaive Keith, but these are the difficulties that promotion/relegation would face, every year.
Martin
You have to remember, if you are already up to speed and winning in F2, then you will have in place the people who can do the job in F1. Yes you will need some more skilled people, but the core of your car design – build is already in place. Where as the new teams to F1, today have all started from the very beginning, with a clean sheet of paper. They had to go out and bring in staff, find space, and find money. But in F2 you would have that already, so I think you would be a head of what these 3 new teams are now, and a little closer to the mid field than they are now.
Keith
“…then you will have in place the people who can do the job in F1”
Are you sure about this?
F1 teams take 40 people maximum to run the cars (I’m not absolutely certain about tht number but I think it is in the right order), not counting marketing, catering etc. Now it could be that HRT don’t have forty people but I’m fairly certain that F2, GP2 and Formula Renault 3.5 run on far, far fewer than this.
“…..the core of your car design – build is already in place.”
But F2 runs Wiliams chassis, GP2 and FR 3.5 both run Dallaras so no design involved there.
“…bring in staff, find space, find money. But in F2 you would have that already…”
Yes you would have some staff, some space and some money, an F2 budget, for example. I don’t know what an F2 budget is but surely a long way short of even HRT’s budget.
Martin
I would like to see a similer thing but with a world championship and other continental series (Asia, Europe, America’s) with promotion and relegation.
The GP2 rights were never utilised by the BBC not F2, they were redistributed, and judging by the ITV4 viewing figures they would be a reasonably good alternative to Sky’s F1 output, and a whole lot cheaper.
GP2 on ITV4 used to get only about 50% less viewers than F1 does on Sky now, twice as many as indycar on Sky, but has now lost 80% of its viewers due to being on Sky.
It would make sense to place GP2 on terrestrial FTA TV as Sky viewing figures are nowhere.
Except there is a massive difference between F1 and soccer. In F1 the teams build their cars. In soccer they don’t build a new team each year.
F2 budgets are smaller than F1 budgets. You can’t expect an F2 team to want to spend all their money building an F1 car on the chance they get in. If they end up 3rd they have wasted a lot of money. If they come 2nd and didn’t think they would then they will be completely ill equiped for the next season in F1. Similiarly HRT may not decide to bother with building na F1 car for next year expecting to be dropped but both of Marussia and Caterham would build F1 cars incase they gets the result that puts them 10th. One of them will have wasted heaps of money.
Of course, if you could buy cars from other teams…
If you look at Football, only I may add as an example, if a team drops down, they get a sum of money for them to adjust. For the team moving up they also get a guarantee sum of money in which to strengthen their team.
So adjustments could be done in F1, and that would help out say HRT. But of course you would have to adjust the rules on the type of cars, which are in F2 and the ones in F1. Like I said not perfect, but it could work.
I would be interested in watching a full F2 race on free to air TV, knowing that I could be watching the next possible new team and driver. Also I think for a sponsor who is looking at F1, could be made to take that first step say with F2, as a starting point and learn how the motor racing world works, and how to get the most for your buck. Also if there was a TV deal in place, and they had cap’s on the spend amount for each team, then I think the F2 teams would be able to bring in a range of sponsors looking to test or try out motor racing.
There has always been a lot of talk about a feeder system to F1, and yes we do need something that actually works. There should reward for winning a F2 crown – team & driver.
Briatore has seen over the last 10 years or more the amount of money that Bernie makes, and thinks he can do better, hence why he is trying like mad to muscle into Bernie area. I have read over the years interviews he has done saying he has the commercial know how, where as Bernie has the black book of contacts, and knows how to cut the deal. It also could be that Briatore thinks he will live longer than Bernie, and with no one in place to take over after Bernie, is working to be in place waiting for that day. Of course both of them did own a football team in the UK, now owned by another gentleman in F1 – small world.
That would have to be a lot of money… say 60 million euros to give them a fighting chance at the back?
Football/Soccer isn’t like F1. People follows teams in the former almost always whereas in F1 Ferrari, McLaren and Williams have some fans but many (and I think probably most) favour a driver.
I don’t cheer for Ferrari or McLaren or any team really. I want to see Webber and Raikkonen win. I don’t like Red Bull but I still cheer on the driver. I don’t know in England how it is exactly but over here in Australia people may like a certain player but you cheer for the club or the team.
Well I have a lot of friends who only cheer the team. They are mad Ferrari Fans no matter who the driver is. Myself I follow Williams, and have done since the day he started the company, the first one before Mr. Head came onboard. I have not always agreed with his drivers over the years, but as a team I support them.
The driver have now worked out they can make money from there fan base, as well as been a driver for a team. But this is only now, not 30 years ago. So yes you are correct that people do follow a driver, even if they move teams.
What would happen if one of the bottom two teams were based in Maranello, with a red colour scheme?
“The sport has been exploited mercilessly for more than a generation now and the time is right for a change.”
Amen to that.
Not holding my breath, though.
Briatore and Bernie at one time where pretty good friends. If I remember correctly Bernie used Briatore to pass funds around for that person sitting in a German prison.
Bernie has most of the good tracks signed up, and I think also the TV companies. Unless Briatore can do deals for a lot less money on the tracks and the same with the TV, and then pay for everything, like the movement of equipment around the world, and if any profits left pay out more to the teams, then he might have a deal. Tall order, but we should remember that Bernie isn’t getting any younger .
I would like to see, say 5 year old F1 cars in a short race, as a support race to the current crop of cars. Sort of like the “Master” race series they tried out. I would have allow the “third” – Test drivers to race in this series, so they can learn the tracks, and keep their driving sharp.
Singapore was just the first time he got caught. And was small potatoes compared to what was done at benetton during the Schumacher years… This guy is like a bad penny.
Dear all
Juks, I seem to recall, in the Benetton days, one of their pit crew getting barbecued whilst holding the fuel nozzle- and, it was subsequently discovered that one of the filters had been removed from the nozzle, to speed up refuelling. I am not 100% certain that Flav was involved, perhaps someone else can confirm/deny in regards to that.
If he was involved with Benneton then, it confirms a trend- that it is just fine and dandy to put human life at risk in pursuit of a competitive edge.
As I recall, Benetton got bugger all oin the way of a penalty for that little conflagration.
Cheers
MarkR
Verstappen at the German GP. Scary stuff.
I don’t think it’s the ‘World Championship’ tag that is so important but instead the ‘Formula 1’ tag.
I know most of my friends don’t watch F1 but they can easily tell you what an F1 car looks like (roughly), sounds like (currently), that they are fast and have downforce and they know they are racing cars.
Only some identify Gran Prix racing with F1. F1 is a brand almost everyone knows, GP’s are not. I can ask anyone who Schumacher is and most will know, if I ask them who Hakkinen is or Raikkonen, Fittipaldi or Clark barely anyone will know. F1, like certain names have had world impacts and so while we can argue over GP1 vs F1 or Hakkinen vs Schumacher, the world only knows the later because of the ‘brand’ that they have become. This is what brings in the extra audiences. Some in the know will watch no matter what but those less commited whoa re still needed to bring in the audience, those that want DRS because everything is then more exciting, they won’t identify the same way with GP1 as F1 and hence I think GP1 can’t be anything more than leverage or tool while dealing
If you do not think the tag is important, then you are entitled to that opinion, but you are wrong.
“Team personnel must also now apply for a licence to take part in the sport and there is really no good reason why he should be granted one.”
except that he is bestest buddys with bernie and bernie said even during the short time it was a”life time” ban. He hoped to see flavio back that he saw no reason it couldn’t happen and that he would help him.
You do not seem to understand the difference between Bernie and the FIA
There’s a difference?! 😉
Oh all right, there is a difference these days. I did wonder sometimes between 1993 and 2009…
So there is one again?
I understand full well that if bernie wants something the chances are it will happen.
Sauber must now be very pleased to be associated with the champions of Europe
Your point about the talent pool being a little weak in GP2 is valid but only in 2012, after the series lost front runners Jules Binachi, Sam Bird and others. I’d argue this is the only weakness with GP2, as the championship has delivered solid racing since its conception which isn’t something that F1 can claim to have achieved. In recent years a number of elements have been added to make the championship slightly weaker; namely more downforce and multiple tyre compounds which are totally unnecessary. No series has ever been improved by adding downforce.
Didn’t exactly work well for Indy racing league and champ car to be in competition with each other so don’t see two ‘f1’ style championships working either.
Hi Joe,
It does seem odd that a friend of Bernie, the FIA and Ferrari are playing this game.
Do you think that it could be part of trying to get a stronghold in the US and ousting Indy?
It’s the only place where this concept might work and could get some big F1 team names better known over there and eventually lead to F1 getting even greater revenues.
If today’s weather in Monaco is repeated next week, it could be an even more interesting race. Hope you packed your brolly
It has been a completely miserable day on the Cote d’Azur. Rain and windy and the forecast is lousy. Marvellous…
Joe
What forecast are you using? I’ve just looked up Meteo France for Monaco. Thursday looks OK, Saturday sunny but with possibility of storms and thunder, Sunday sunny but cloudy too.
Perhaps it has changed/improved since you wrote the above.
Martin
I’m not positive but I thought the last time the teams were talking about setting up a rival series, it was reported that Bernie had trademarked GP1 and other possible names.
I thought so too….it’s all a bit familiar
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/bernie-adds-twist-f1-saga
Mr E. indeed does own the name GP1, much to the disdain of motogp who initially spent quite a bit of money changing 500gp racing into GP1, only to get a call from a very nice person informing them of their error.
And that nice person was?
got your jet on order yet Joe?
It seems very strange to have Flavio Briatore and the word sport together, I think Flavio Briatore and cheating Bar Steward sits better.
I can’t see this going anywhere just political posturing, F1GP got nowhere so I can’t see this making it but then that’s not the point I guess.
In my experience it’s very rare to only have one black rock in a bag. Perhaps it’s a little harsh to only taint Mr Briatore? Especially since he’s hardly the only team boss that’s cheated…
Don’t believe all the stories about cheating you may have read.
OK, I’ll bite: which stories shouldn’t we believe?! It’s not that I care too much about whether they are true or not, just that it all sounds like such juicy gossip!
Facetious, I know, but many a true word etc. For me, at least part of the interest I have in F1 is the political intrigue, the backstabbing, the spying and so on. I love the racing too, but given that F1 is at its core part of the entertainment industry, all these the backstories just add that magic touch of spice. However, there’s a fine line…
Sport is a special type of drama where not just the script, but the plot and the outcome is unknown by the actors and the audience. We watch sport for this inherent unpredictability, glorying in the victories, suffering along with our heroes in defeat. We accept all outcomes, even the worst, and come back for more. Given this, the one thing that is unacceptable to the sports fan is the fix, because it destroys the contract between the audience and the players: that no-one knows what will come next.
If you allow the fix, then your beloved sport becomes no different to professional wrestling. It’s still entertainment, but it’s not sport any more. This is the reason Briatore shouldn’t be allowed back. He turned F1 into pro wrestling.
I cannot answer that. What I am trying to achieve is to get people to read the websites that have REAL F1 journalists who know what is happening and not the fraudsters and fantasists out there, who make it up as they go along. The only way one can discover who is to be trusted is to make sure that the reporters are actually at races.
People try to justify themselves saying that they cannot afford to go to the races, but the only way that new F1 journalists are created is for ambitious youngsters to get to the races and do the job. There are several doing that at the moment. It is not easy, but they win their spurs. If the fans do not support the professionals then the quality of coverage will inevitably get worse as the proper journalists die out and those without overheads become the only source of information…
And so apart from you who else would you classify as real f1 journalists and not those who parrot info from others.
I’d say you, James Allen, Adam Cooper… who else?
I know you probably don’t like recommending others because you are all in a competitive industry, but I don’t think it’s right for you to say you want people to ‘read the websites that have REAL F1 journalists’ and then not name who you think these are so we can have a read from them too.
Also, while you’re at it (and I doubt you’d say this as well), who is karen? and/or what has she done to know so much?
There are 300 fully accredited F1 Permanent pass holders. They come from different language groups. There are about 40 British. Some work for newspapers, some for specialist magazines. Some are freelances. If you want to know more why not buy “Who works in F1” which gives you all the details. I do not have a list. I have no objection to naming names, but my time is short and I have to earn a living as well as please people like you.
Karen is a great compliment, as far as I am concerned. She keeps an eye on me and corrects any mistakes that might pop up (one does not access to all the documentation as she does). She also puts forward the party line of the powers-that-be when it is deemed to be necessary. She is very useful and very welcome.
Thanks. Did not know of that.
btw, I don’t know the rules of wordpress but you can’t just stick some google ads or something on the page. You surely get enough hits to give you a little incentive…
Would that include the ones you’ve told?
1994?
No. 2007.
Why do you try and justify leniency towards someone who is guilty of an egregious act. There are many “black rocks”, as you call them, in this world. Let us agree to strive and rid them from our midst. Yes?
Joe, sorry for all the posts today. But if briatore comes back, I’m gone (not that I expect anyone to give 2 hoots). Please keep up the fight for a semblance of decency in F1.
Tim
Wow. Someone with real logic. Impressive!
Seriously… why do so many people seek to justify actions that are wrong by pointing out that others do it too?
Thing is, learning about the classic cheats/scams of the past (breaking the timing beam, rulers painted on your trouserleg, getting locked in the garage overnight, the empty photocopier paper tray at Williams after a breakin, suggestions of 3.8L engines at Monza, ballast in the watertanks, etc etc) is part of the mythology of the sport that you’ve chosen to follow. When similiar things happen in the here and now, it seems very different – you as a viewer have been taken for a mug.
Times have changed
TKC
“..rulers painted on your trouserleg, getting locked in the garage overnight, the empty photocopier paper tray at Williams after a breakin, suggestions of 3.8L engines at Monza,”
This is fascinating, the timing beam story and the watertanks I know a little of but the others….????
More info please TKC.
Martin
Not sure about Monza, but Chris Amon and Robin Herd have been moaning for years about Pedro Rodriguez’s alleged 3.3L V12 BRM at the 1970 Belgian GP. I think Doug Nye recently put this one to bed, however, when he pointed out that in 1970 BRM were essentially brassic and so could not have hoped to produce a special, one-off engine. Or could they…
Mike Lawrence has posited that impoverished teams running DFV engined cars *might* have had a mate with a DFL in a hillclimb car, which engine said mate *might* have been persuaded to lend to the F1 chaps. The scrutineers would only know if they completely stripped and measured the motor.
Bernie is up to something, this is all miss-direction.
Indeed, that is very much the smell I’m getting too. While his right hand man is waving around his GP1 rules everyone should be watching what his left hand is doing.
You can tell that Bernie’s up to something. He’s breathing.
I would have thought Mr Briatore would have had a little bit of dignity and stayed away from motorsport in general surely he could spend his time counting his millions instead, imagine all those paper cuts. However I do miss the mad trio of Max Mosley (I should think he’s associated with them Loonies) Flavio and Bernie who kinda of epitomise all that’s wrong with the greed and egos present in the sport. So yeh the irony of Flav potentially coming back with GP1 which could potentially serve as the death knell to F1 does tickle me.
http://fernandoisfasterthanyou.blogspot.co.uk/
One of the few sane comments in this thread is about how good old formula two was. Easter Monday at Thruxton was a fixture for me each year.
There are far too many manufacturer marketing led series around diluting the path to the top. Single seater racing desperately needs weeding out so that kids can move through the ranks. In the old days a chassis could beused in europe for f2 and then taken down- under for the Tasman series etc.
We need to get back to this kind of situation soon. At he same time costs must be addressed.
Rush goalie, jumpers for goal posts, baked beans on toast for tea? Marvellous, isn’t it!
Exactly, welI said.doubt that Gerhard Berger can afford the “battalion” of layers that is necessary to put some sense in then feeder categories,
The talent pool is not that bad in GP2 this year (granted there has been stronger line ups in the past).
Yes GP2 is very expensive to buy a race seat, but another reason why a number of drivers leave the series after a couple of seasons is because of the general perception that if you don’t win the Championship in your first couple of seasons your no good (for which I don’t agree with).
For what my opinion is worth.
All of this agitating tells us all the bleeding obvious which is:
1. Something is rotten in the state of F1 generally
2. Assuming Briatore is writing up a set of rules (and I have no reason to doubt the report) this is an expensive exercise. I can’t see him sitting at his desk with a pencil and a few hundred reams of blank paper thinking up rules he’s got people doing a lot of work to deliver a coherent product.
3. I have to assume that the responsibilities of a company director are the same in Europe as they are in Australia so Luca Di Montezemolo has to look at every deal put in front of him and assess if its good for the company or not – that assessment can be as short or long as necessary.
4. There is a lot of posturing going on as rumours of a float and the finalisation of the new Concord agreement drags on.
All of this leads to a couple of conclusions:
1. The potential float is not a ‘done deal’ and maybe the teams are holding out for a bigger piece of the pie – all in all there seem to be unhappy F1 people.
2. Mercedes wanting a better deal as part of the new Concord is giving other players a chance to go back to the negotiating table albeit in a more roundabout manner – I’m looking at you Ferrari.
3. You don’t invest the money it takes to write up a set of rules unless you are serious or are just making enough of an effort to get something you want from the people who think you are serious.
In short, ignoring the pro-Flav rhetoric from a couple of names I haven’t noticed on the forum before I’d be leaning towards this as being a leverage move to get a specific outcome for dropping the plans for an alternative product.
In regards to GP2 I watched a race the other day on TV, the empty grandstand seats reminded me of Turkey, shame it was Silverstone…the racing was just average and seemed to be packaged badly as a TV product.
I think I’d watch a FF race before I’d watch GP2 again…
Rules must be expensive to write, FOTA spent £11 million in a week back in 2009, writing their ‘new series’ rules.
GP2 at Silverstone the other day? News to me.
Admittedly GP2 gets very poor viewing figures in the UK, but that’s because Sky are nowhere when it cones to viewing figures, even ITV4 used to get 4x the viewers as Sky does for GP2.
Joe,
One of the reasons I read your blog is your forthrightness and honesty in naming this piece of excrement for what he is. I salute you.
Someone commented why is FB getting most of the stick for cheating and corruption on this blog and not others.
As Mr. Eason poiinted out in Bahrain, Mr. Ecclestone decides who gets a press pass and who doesn’t. Otherwise he may get more scrutiny.
If this is what Eason wrote then he knows nothing about media passes. The F1 media passes are granted by the FIA, not by the Formula One group.
That said, I remember Nigel Roebuck commenting that he once found his press pass didn’t work at Imola one year (i.e. the turnstile/barrier wouldn’t open when he swiped his pass), and that Ecclestone had arranged this “malfunction” as a bit of a prank in light of his non-attendance at the previous round at Interlagos.
The T-shirt salesman always struck me as a shifty bugger even before Piquet’s little “mishap” and frankly I can’t see anyone currently involved in motorsport ever wanting to have anything to do with him ever again. Stranger things have happened, but probably not since Emerson Fittpaldi left McLaren…