Chris Pook, the one-time promoter of the Long beach Grand Prix, was in the paddock in Montreal on Friday. Pook, who now lives in Palm Springs, where he has been working on trying to put together an IndyCar street race, is rumoured to be working on a plan to get Formula 1 back to Long Beach in 2015. The Long Beach Grand Prix was an F1 race from 1976 to 1983 but since then the event has been for IndyCars of one form or another. The current contract between the City and the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach runs out in 2015 and the City might be convinced to change its strategy as the spectator numbers these days are not what they used to be.
While Long Beach is difficult for F1 in terms of live broadcasting, it would be a useful addition to the World Championship if there is a solid Audience in the Americas, something which could happen if the projects in Austin, New Jersey, Mexico City and Argentina go ahead as planned. That would enable a TV package to be put together which might make sense for a network.
There have been rumours of a third Grand Prix in the United States for several weeks, but little evidence beyond tittle-tattle…
Being of sufficient vintage to remember the last F1 races at Long Beach (and enjoying the start of the 1981 race being this month’s Motor Sport calendar picture) I can see the appeal. Equally, the US is unquestionably big enough and has a good diversity of tracks to support multiple races, but let’s get one sorted before we think about three?
Another street course with very limited passing opportunities/zones? I think not…although it’s a very appealing locale.
Well if it does happen it looks like I won’t be able to see it in the uk. Bernie is going around saying that FTA will disappear altogether. It is true to form that he is is referring to the curtailed highlights we are allowed as “delayed coverage”. He is also claiming that the sky audience is equal to the BBC F1 audience. This is very far from what I remember Karen saying on here some weeks back.
He stated Sky coverage at 10m homes vs viewing figures on the BBC of 6-7m. So compared apples to a small independent travel agent outside Llanelli, unless he thinks he can achieve 100% share
If I am at elsewhere, the Sky internet app sort of works, but I am unimpressed. If the BBC is on live, that’s what goes on. Aside, been very unimpressed with the screen I spent a lot on, as in 4 figures. Sent it back. Going to risk a very serious screen now. Honestly, none of them are up to a press proof or Trinitron b’cast job. I just bet I am simply going to see digital broadcast compression artefacts better. As in the new one is rates “reference”. “awesome” by serious people. (I own calibration kit etc., but retail tellys are awful at that)
F1 broadcast, please get yer shh together. Most frustrating year, on that front. You cannot divide and rule on quality. Stop putting the burden back on viewers and wrecking the industry.
Mr. E was actually alluding to the number of subscribers to the Sky platform and was widely misquoted for effect.
Most people who own a Sky system actually don’t subscribe to any pay channel, and really use it for the FTA channels.
Sky are averaging 701k viewers per race, and 381k for qualifying, both way below what they had promised, Monaco achieved a staggeringly low 565k, not much more than ITV4 GP2 figures from a few years ago.
The switch to a higher paying subscription service is because the teams want ever increasing amounts of money, the largest revenue stream is the circuit sanctioning fees, but this is likely to be negatively impacted due to the formation of FOPA. The teams have a guaranteed minimum income in the new Concorde, so the extra income has to be generated from somewhere.
I did suggest financial penalties for every 100k viewers Sky fail to attract, below their promised 1.3 million per race
Of course the smartest option would have been for the teams to accept the 2009 offer … Which ironically they’re now moving towards, but it’s probably too late for the viewers now.
But yes the Sky figures are shamefully low, although Sky do like to combine the peak viewing figures from the live race and 2 replays, and send that out to the media and their ‘compliant’ web sites, but the reality is that they are nowhere, the best weekly reach Sky have had is around 3.5 million ( that’s all programmes F1 channel, all week)
Thanks Karen
Yes I understand the reason for the move to Sky, purely money. However as I said in another thread this move by Bernie has lost millions of live OTS and if I were a sponsor I would be getting very angry by now, especially with a reduced audience already negotiated for Italy. Still as long as there is money, even if no one watches and the fans all give up, I guess he will be happy.
Karen, do you know Sky race figures broken down by their own satellite service, and subscribers via Virgin Media? Sky have kept back most of their goodies (the HD feed, red button features, choice of camera, various race data on the website) for their own satellite customers, and they’re not accessible to customers on VM (though Sky Sports 1 and 2 are available in HD on VM). It was quite annoying today hearing the commentator suggest I choose a driver-view cam via the red button…
I know sky have had spats with VM about access to their channels in the past, and they seem to be trying to get leverage with F1, rather than maximising their channel views.
I have Sky sports via Virgin, and find that HD makes such a difference that I’ll watch BBC when they have the race live (and couldn’t take a sky satellite dish even if I wanted to as I live in a conservation area…)
Agreed.
So one is a ploy.
But which one?
If they could start the race at noon local time it might work in TV terms? It’s a great location, I seem to remember passing was possible…..
Flav, I think in a way, making the hours inaccessible really worked in F1′s favor. You felt – or I did – a closer sensation to where it was all going on. I have no idea how this dusk & dark racing is cool unless endurance. Simply because you feel the tension attending to an endurance race, you know they are as tired as you. You knew you were hardcore waking at 0400, and you know what? You don’t need the atmosphere because you had dawn your way, emphasising the emotions, that plus tiredness, caffeine highs, or whatever kept you up, likely adrenaline. The more you plaint to the regular schmo, the more you remove the cachet, and this is just a few races in a full calendar. Be so very cool to have Long beach back. Early and very good memory.
unfortunately an F1 race in long beach would be even more tedious and uneventful than the indycar race there. the track is not able to produce a decent race any longer.
I liked Long Beach. Both F1 races I got to see on TV 82/83 were exciting with plenty of good racing. The track I think is a bit wider than a lot of street circuits in places which allows passing. I’d love to see a F1 race there again.
I would say something about this but the Texas friends would hammer me.
What would you say and what would we hammer you with? Let me guess:
You: The Austin GP won’t make it.
Me: You silly twit, we have the only purpose built track!
Three GPs in the states!! , lets get back to Europe, its where the audiance is.
Watkins Glen or Laguna Seca would be good, but let’s get one race sorted first. NJ looks pretty sketchy.
What are your thoughts on FOPA? Useful stakeholder body or BE smoke & mirrors?
Not really. If there really is such an organization it will never work. Thus it is probably a ruse by the players in the F1 world. Ron Walker and Mr E tend to be hand-in-glove with one another.
I reckon that’s smokes and mirrors in The Game Of Thrones play which is BE pretending democracy. Money that flows, man we could get some other tracks up to spec, much much more interesting ones, I reckon.
Thanks! That’s what I thought too!
If the team who see each other every week cannot work together, the circuits stand no chance!
Unfortunately, Mr. E and Walker are soooo busy at the moment in doing politics (and attacking the manufacturers` turbo engines) they have forgotten to realize that, since 1985, there already is a FOPA existing in F1-the Formula One Photographers Association:
http://www.fopa.net/Home_Page.html.
Seems to be quite embarrassing to me, dear Glimmer Twins. I would propose to rename it: Formula One Ecclestones Associates (FOEA).
Pat Dueffler (sp?), ex-Marlboro, tried to set upa FOPA in the late 70s or early 80s (brain fade) but he never got it together because the promoters had too many differing agendas (as we say now). Probably be the same now.
Steve, I think it was you who recommended The Speed Merchants disc. If, so, very nice call mate. Practically had that on loop lately, man is Sicily and dust from Africa on the road so twitchy cars on a never – straight exciting. I had a big argument with my mom, who likes those parts, “hey, why didn’t you ever take me?” and so on . .
oops, Stephen, sorry! oops . . I hate it when I am called “Jon” or “Jonathan”., urgh . .
Actually I think it was me, if you mean a recent reference here. Wonderful isn’t it?
I do enjoy your stuff, and there is a certain resonance in the timing of this exchange: I think we first ‘met’ in Dany B’s early days at Lotus, speculating about whether he had recruited Jackie Stewart as a brand ambassador thinking he was Jim Clark!
Cheers, Sam
Aha! it was you, come to think of it. (cranks slow gear rewind on useless brain) All I could remember was name began with “S”. Oops! I’ve been very slowed down and very distracted lately, which is a (literal, recently) headache when my mind is usually racing to get thoughts out of it. In for 100,000 mile service . .
Thank you Sam, that’s one disc I can not tire of.
LOL, yeah, I do just about recall wondering if Danny B knew who he was hiring! Thinking about it, JYS has done a mighty good job of letting people forget most of that
I am trawling through Opera libretti to find the most appropriate sticky end to describe Danny. Can’t be Tosca, because there’s no lover going down with him. Don G? Hmmmm, got all the elements of dragging along unwilling servants, but I have a revisionist view of the Don, held since I first saw it as a boy. I am sure many would like it to be King Priam, for the bloody ending.
Joe, serious, if you wanted, I’d put up a few subs to GP+ for grabs to whoever posts the best operatic synopsis of Dear Danny. ‘fraid I cant work out quickly the pitch to get the ROH or ENO or Met to advertise with you (because they beg, their sponsors always groan at every call) , but it suddenly occurs to me, more cultural ads might appeal to your readers, ‘least the ones I meet here in the comments.
take care Sam, all best from me – j
I would love to see both and I am lucky enough to have been to both circuits (WG for Indycar in 09 and LS for ALMS. Sadly though Watkins Glen is too close to the NJ grand prix site and suffered in the past from a weak catchment area, also struggles with lack of run off in a lot of key places (although that could be changed) Laguna Seca is more hopeful. It’s status as a nonprofit limits their ability to carry out any significant investment although I’m sure they wouldn’t mind if a third party spent a bit of money. It would be a wild location for a race!!
It would be handy to have another vote on the commission
But when you create a new life form, you don’t know what it’s going to grow into.
Hi Karen,
unless you are a meticulous planner. Sometimes this involves having a sense of characters, not technical business skill. Now there’s something I admire Bernie for. I just watched two sillies fight over a copyright for, oooh, nigh a year, all the wrong way, which relates to a important asset I bought and own. Being friendly with my possible enemies (one is a very funny guy, top company, the other a bit demanding of sympathy, but sorta okay) I was free with the theory. I talk openly whenever possible. Only I had done my homework, did not feel at risk. I’ve also known these two for 14 years or so. So I had a right laugh when I worked out what they spent trying to gazump me. The irony is in the fact I approached both to split what each claim as their sole demesne, with me, if they only stopped bickering and cracked on with some work!
Sound familiar? If I can do a turn, bet you BE can, with bells on.
Some things are a foregone conclusion. Not everything, but definitely some things.
Been watching Species again?
Yes, that was awful to behold. Natasha Henstridge evolved into a completely different actress 3 years later . .
Hold your horses people. We have not run a race in the US for how many years??? And now we’re mooting 3…….We need AMERICAN drivers before F1 can become mainstream here in the US. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again…Ferrari need to put their money where there mouth is and put an American in the 2nd car. That’ll create instant headlines every race weekend in their most important market.
You think they could do that, for all the extra nice treatment they get. There has to be someone from across the pond who would keep Fernando honest. My sincere apologies to Felipe, of whom I’m very fond, but FM looks to me like a man who needs a change to freshen up, surely there’ll be a seat for him. I think you need to put an American in a car American kids can recognise the name of. To boot, Bernie has a little leverage here. If he is thinking still of a IPO, bolster the one market every eurosilly needs to at least try to crack. (Some desperately old world English friends of mine think I’m practically a cultural traitor. But I get customers* . . )
My pal’s son just about realizes F1 exists because, well he’s half Swedish, oh, and me banging on. But take an older generation. Worked with a guy remotely on a project, and we were in constant touch, so all chit chat came up. Do geeks like cars and tech? Sure. But a really hard sell to even get the GP at Indy paid attention to. Quoth he, “I don’t understand it, but those pit stops are cool.” So he stayed the distance to see what the stops would deliver. Arguments for refuelling aside, that factor excited one guy slap bang in the demographic sponsors sell to. Wonder if he still watches. . . My bud here seems to have latched onto the JV line, that F1 is too de-risked, and too pretty boy young. Ruggedness and danger sells, as does having older drivers about.
Anyhow, Jonathan, think of it this way, F1 doesn’t demand $77 and north *per ticket* taxpayer subsidy to run a football game!
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2012/04/28/minnesota-vikings-asking-for-stadium-taxpayer-subsidy-of-77-per-ticket/
But honestly, I think the only way in the end is much more serious cultural programming. Kinda a “Adopt a American” initiative for all non US F1 fans
Just on the cultural thing, that goes on even within America. In this amusing and instructive story, Mr Hardcore Geek, Steve Blank (very cool guy) gets totally wasted on a sales call by the other guy who talked football:
http://steveblank.com/2009/06/25/convergent-technologies-war-story-1-%E2%80%93-selling-with-sports-scores/
Okay, Bernie will never talk football. But where is the PR team, going out, explaining F1 to anyone who will listen. Especially on network TV channels, local radio, you know, media, that media thing . .
I remember the beach from way back – not as nice then as now. All of the porno theaters are gone thankfully – maybe more to do with the internet then an urban renewal project I guess. -:) The track has changed many times since F1 was there last – It’s shorter and the dive down Linden avenue was insane and to tell you the truth, missed by most fans. I first visited the race in 1980 while on vacation in LA with my parents. I’ve been back many times to work the event a as a race marshal during the CART era and lately the Indy Car series. The section from turn one through turn four is Mickey Mouse and not up to F1 standards and the hairpin at turn 11 is downright stupid to have race cars cornering at 30kph!
No, if your going to have another F1 race in the USA – they have to consider Road America. Yes it needs safety upgrades but the end result would be a real test of how large the drivers orbs are…
From zero to three USA races in three years!
It’s all very well packaging the product for the Americas audience, yet what about the rest of the world?
Politically and culturally Formula One now has the ideal opportunity to deliver its message; Peace & Sport.
Just think, the audience figures match the Olympics & Football, yet Formula One is now broadcast twenty times a year.
If i was the Austin promoter I would be seriously pissed off at the fact that the US GP he paid for is now possibly going to be one of 3. Although there;s been so much messing about there I don’t know when the promoter came on board anyway tbh.
The more the merrier. The more GP’s we have in the US the quicker we will restore our fan base. These events would strengthen each other.
I also tend to think this is insurance form Pook’s point of view. Despite the obscene costs of hosting F1, it would secure his event. IndyCar is increasingly sketchy and whuke numbers are resonable, they are nothing on the height of F1 or CART there. If he wants to keep his “Long Beach Grand Prix” healthy, F1 may be the best option.
*while numbers are reasonable!
And remember also he has to fight NASCAR with his event…
It seems ridiculous to have to say this, but a grand prix in the entertainment capital of the world would be exceptionally good for Formula One. That said, such events don’t fit with F1′s current financial model.
Bernie rarely does things for the good of the sport. Given that no significant municipal funds would likely be allocated for such an event, Bernie won’t be interested.
Lets face facts. The only reason the US has been so poorly represented in Formula One these past many decades is because the US taxpayers have little stomach for paying Bernie’s tremendous fees.
The sport would be so much better off had there been two or three annual Grands Prix in the US over the past twenty years. The earnings of the sport would have been tremendously improved were that the case. The unfortunate truth is that Bernie is all about short term profits. A track in a remote wasteland willing to pay twice as much will get a race, while the glamor capital of the largest consumer market in the world is ignored.
If Formula One ever wants to make a serious run at the US market, the commercial rights holder will have to hold their nose and (more or less) give away the rights for decade long runs near the major US population centers. Bernie has proven he has no interest in sacrificing short term gains for long term growth. CVC has absolutely no upside anything but short term profits.
Only a sport run and owned by the teams could possibly take the long view necessary to land a race like Long Beach. The odds of F1 landing Long Beach? Less than 1 in 10.
F1 at Long Beach? Another dreadful road course. Monaco without the glamour or history. I’d settle for two good U.S. races (Austin & N.Y.) rather then two good ones and a dog at L.B.
Find an abandoned stretch of waterfront in San Francisco bay and follow the N.Y. model. Yeah, I know, easier said then done.