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« Cost-cutting or budget-capping?
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How engines drive F1 forwards

June 14, 2012 by Joe Saward

There has been some discussion of late, from those with suitably vested interests, that the new engines in 2014 will be too expensive and that the sport should stick with its 2.4-litre V8 engines. This is a cheap option and with the teams unable to agree on how to cut other costs, and unwilling to commit to a budget cap, it is a logical thought process for the short-sighted, or those who are frightened that they will be unable to compete in a new formula. In the old days teams were more open-minded. A change was viewed as an opportunity to move up the grid, rather than a possible way to slip backewards. Nowadays, it seems, teams are always voting for the status quo because they know what to expect, rather than trying to do something different and new. If this is allowed to happen it is a very poor reflection on the people running the teams. How can F1 hope to be seen as innovative and inventive if the people running it do not want to change?

The current engines are now six years old and were, in any case, originally designed to have the same basic architecture as the 3-litre V10s that preceded them, and which date back into the 1990s. In the name of cost containment engine development has been frozen since 2007 and since the start of 2009 each driver has been able to use only eight engines in a season. Aside from the KERS systems that came in 2009, the engines – once the key element in F1 – have been largely irrelevant and the difference between success and failure has been decided by aerodynamics, which has little or no real use for the motor industry – or anything else come to that. Yes, engineers are very clever to pipe air around their chassis, but how can this help the road car world?

The status quo is good for teams that have had to buy their engines from the manufacturers, and good for the manufacturers because they can get a better return on investment by flogging the same old stuff over and over again. Teams are now concerned that development costs of the new 1.6-litre turbos in 2014 will make their engine bills more expensive. The engine manufacturers want to keep the easy money flowing in and so they are saying that the engine costs will go up, but if one looks at it over a five year period, then they will cost the same as they do today.

Really? So if engines cost more in 2014 and 2015, presumably, in order to achieve this claim, they will then have to cost less than they do today in 2017 and 2018. This is not really logical, apart from the fact that if the sporting departments of the automobile manufacturers are clever they will use the new rules to get their budgets from different sources than they do today. At the moment the manufacturer budgets tend to come from marketing because the sport offers a car company the opportunity to show the world that it can be competitive in Formula 1. In the future the F1 budgets might come from the mainstream research and development, because the F1 cars will be developing something useful, and the marketing people will be able to kick in money as well because the racing will be casting the company in a nice “green” light.

In theory, therefore, there should be more money available for the engines and therefore less need to insist that customers pay daft sums.

The key point here is that when the FIA was dreaming up these rules a few years ago, they went to the manufacturers and asked them what they wanted in the future in F1. The rules for 2014 are a reflection of the desires expressed. There may not be any new manufacturers involved in 2014 engines at the moment, but there are certainly companies thinking about it.

Those who seek to delay or even stop the new turbo engines are doing so because they like the nice cosy environment that exists today. The FIA has been mindful of the economic situation and has already compromised on 2013 and switched to V6s because it is more logical.

The new rules should increase the opportunities of the teams, if they can convince car manufacturers to come into the sport, and if they are really smart they will get free engines and sponsorship on the back of such arrangements. This should be possible for teams like Red Bull, Williams, Sauber and Lotus F1, all of which show winning potential using customer engines. It is also what happened back in the 1980s when F1 switched to turbocharged engines. In 1979 the majority of the grid used the cheap and cheerful Cosworth engines. Ferrari has Ferraris, Renault had Renaults and Alfa Romeo was still kicking around with (funnily enough) Alfa Romeos.

By 1983 Williams had Honda; Brabham had BMW, McLaren had their own Porsche-designed TAGs, the other marques remained (and some had taken on customers) and there was also the ambitious Brian Hart with his own turbos. The problem at the time was that the rules allowed for rather too much development and so costs went berserk in terms of electronics and fuel development. However there was a new influx of manufacturers when the turbos were phased out and cheaper normally-aspirated engines appeared in the 1990s.

While the big players came and went, they worked wonders for the sport. F1 grew enormously in that period and became much more popular as a result.

The skill of the rule-writer is to create regulations that make the sport attractive to the manufacturers, even at a time when the global economy is not strong. You can batten down the hatches and hang on (as some are proposing) but the sport is not moving forward. Ten years ago F1 had a lot more manufacturers involved: Mercedes, Renault, Ferrari and Cosworth were all there, but there were also BMW, Honda and Toyota and even the old Peugeot engines were still being used under the Asiatech banner. F1 is weaker without manufacturers, particularly when the supposed promoters of the sport do no promotion at all but are there simply to take the money.

Some would say that the reason some of the car-makers left was that they were not successful enough, but there is also a decent argument that it was because F1 did not give them what they wanted. So the key to success in this respect is to write the rules that the manufacturers want to see.

The first thing, obviously, is exposure, but if all they are doing is plugging the name, it has less value than if they are showing the world new technologies. They also want their engineers to learn about F1 attitudes. What every car company these days needs are engines that will meet the ever-tightening global fuel economy and emission standards. The cost of building and developing road car engines is incredibly high, which is why we are seeing more and more partnerships between companies in terms of engine development. In part this is because the automotive industry is slow-moving by nature. When you get a bunch of thrusting F1-trained engineers involved in mainstream products, things speed up. Honda used this theory to great effect back in the 1990s. And speed means lower development costs because one is not paying engineers to sit around and ruminate endlessly. History shows us that wars and other competitive environments are the best way to move technology forwards. The car companies know this and so they want to compete if there is something worth developing. Hybrid technologies may strike a chill for the hot-hearted racers, who believe that gasoline is there to be burned, but the world is changing and unless they change with it, they will become dinosaurs.

Surely a company like Ferrari, built on the concept of innovation and excellence, should be driving ever faster forwards, trying to build hybrid supercars, that do things that no-one has ever dreamed of doing before? If not, then someone else will…

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Posted in FIA and F1 politics | 66 Comments

66 Responses

  1. on June 14, 2012 at 9:19 am rubbergoat

    Hear hear. I can’t wait for the new engine formula – proper development again, with the manufacturers pushing the envelope.

    Who else here misses the odd engine blowup every now and then? Engines are not really a variable in a team’s performance any more and F1 is too aerodynamical…


    • on June 14, 2012 at 2:23 pm Ash

      Me too, both in looking forward to the new engine formula and missing the stirring sight of a plume of oil smoke shooting out of a front-runner as his engine block turns into a finely-engineered scrap-metal receptacle.


      • on June 15, 2012 at 10:26 am Jem

        This probably won’t change much – current F1 engines are very reliable because the engine use rules force them to be, they’ve got to last a few races and so they have to be reliable and solid. There might be a certain time to adapt, but test rigs will do all the gruntwork on that.

        Before those regulations came in, engine design was all about cutting those margins finer and finer, which resulted in those who crossed the line and blew the engine. Now, teams can’t afford the penalties associated with repeated engine replacement, so the components are all that bit bigger and tougher.


    • on June 17, 2012 at 6:36 am Steve Dalby (@seisteve)

      I agree, love the development race.

      But of course FIA and Bernie will now close this down as the FIA will say to Bernie, ” we want more share of the money” and Bernie will reply “OK but only if you use the cost cutting to drop the new engines”

      and the FIA will join the rest of the greedy folk and take a share…..

      ,…. and as always Bernie gets his way.


  2. on June 14, 2012 at 9:27 am glyn stacey

    Steady on Joe,writing articles like that will get you a load of flack again!

    Why will people not move forward is beyond me, F1 should be about R&D and all this blathering about costs etc., is all coming from people who want their large/larger slice of the money. F1 needs manufacturers and would be far more interesting if they were involved. Keith Duckworth had the right idea years ago, when he said that all one should do is control the flow of fuel to the engine and, indeed, had designed a fuel control valve. This way, whoever got the biggest bang from a fixed amount of fuel would have the best engine and that of course would have meant Honda. Maybe!

    I’m following, with more anticipation than F1, the Nissan Deltawing and at Le Mans at the moment, it’s lapping in the middle of the LMP2 class times and this with only 1.6 ltrs, more than 100mls per refuel and around 4-5 stints on a set of tyres. It’s called progress and I find it exciting.


    • on June 15, 2012 at 11:35 am Mekanikal_grip

      I think the Nissan project is a precursor and the early stages of the company getting ready for a fully fledged F1 project…..all signs point this way


      • on June 15, 2012 at 1:42 pm Joe Saward

        Nissan and Renault are in partnership. Does it make sense for them to compete against one another?


        • on June 15, 2012 at 5:41 pm mekanikal_grip

          Yes Joe, I mulled that over before posting but thought about the cooperation which goes on in the automotive industry. It makes sense for one to continue as is i.e. Renault with the current program and Nissan start the ball rolling on the newer technology. Sharing the data etc at a later date. The badges/branding can be sorted out later.

          Plus I also read somewhere that Nissan tried to take the same technology


        • on June 15, 2012 at 7:23 pm MediumJim

          thanks for that Joe, and Nissan just joined the project in the last 6 months, this car has been in R&D for over 3 years.


        • on June 15, 2012 at 7:41 pm glyn stacey

          I don’t think they would compete against one another in F1. The Regie has the GP/F1 heritage and Nissan has the endurance and rally heritage of sorts. Mr Ghosn will have a lot to say about it. Interesting that the engine being used is from the Nissan Juke. Try this great article.http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/columns/theway/2010/the_way_it_is_no222.html


  3. on June 14, 2012 at 9:38 am Kevin

    Everyday, I am more and more convinced that Joe should be running F1!


    • on June 14, 2012 at 3:48 pm Zane Boddy (@Gashead26)

      Two thumbs up.


    • on June 15, 2012 at 7:25 pm MediumJim

      I’m in with that, but only if he gets to jail people as punishment for being stupid within the sport.


  4. on June 14, 2012 at 9:48 am Benny

    It seems that kers could have been a real technological driver that a company like, say, BMW would be really interested in being involved in. Instead it’s a gimmicky add on that is perceived as being temperamental (Red Bull), or worse, outright dangerous (Williams if you believe St. Bernard). If they allow unlimited use of kers then very quickly you’ll see a reliable and very powerful system that would bring a real benefit to any automotive company. If montezemelo gets his way we really will be watching formula oneasaurus!


  5. on June 14, 2012 at 9:59 am Dave Myers

    There is nothing in this piece but utter common sense, and you’re right to say that companies such as Ferrari should be embracing the new regulations because they are an opportunity. Well said.


  6. on June 14, 2012 at 10:26 am G

    The more time that passes, the less and less respect I have for Bernie Ecclestone….
    Yes he has turned a bunch of sweaty moustachioed gentleman grease-monkey-racers into a global brand, but his comments these days, and business practices seemingly distance him from reality.

    I genuinely fear for the future of the sport, if he gets his way with the engines, the market float, and succsessor

    Great post Joe, as always you wear your heart on your sleeve, and cut through all the crap…

    G


  7. on June 14, 2012 at 10:52 am Colin

    Joe Quote/
    Hybrid technologies may strike a chill for the hot-hearted racers, who believe that gasoline is there to be burned, but the world is changing and unless they change with it, they will become dinosaurs.

    Surely a company like Ferrari, built on the concept of innovation and excellence, should be driving ever faster forwards, trying to build hybrid supercars, that do things that no-one has ever dreamed of doing before? If not, then someone else will…
    /JoeQuote

    “Gasoline” That must be Swiss for petrol?

    It’s fascinating to read such heretical views from an F1 insider.

    The thought, just the thought, of a Ferrari hybrid engine crashes my neural hard drive.

    Has Ron dared consider the possibility that McLaren might make a hybrid F1 motor, and mention it in public?

    Effeminate Supercars? Well they’d sell in California.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 11:11 am Joe Saward

      You cannot use a super car on the road without risking your license…


      • on June 14, 2012 at 11:51 am Colin

        You speak from your Ferrari experience: I speak as a Morris Minor owner.

        No slight intended to road car hybrid drivers, very sensible thing to be, and fascinating technology, but F1 and Supercar engines going hybrid would lose all credibility.


        • on June 14, 2012 at 12:05 pm Joe Saward

          Why?


          • on June 14, 2012 at 1:35 pm Philip S

            I agree with Joe here, A super car should be insanely quick, accelerate like lightening and handle like a dream…..

            Does it really make much difference how it achieves that?

            Surly a hybrid Ferrari that goes 0-60 in 3 seconds and maxes at 220 mph would have credibility no mater what the power plant.


        • on June 14, 2012 at 1:11 pm JV

          You speak of credibility Colin. Perhaps then you know more then Porsche? Send them a memo to tell them where they are going wrong with the 918.


          • on June 14, 2012 at 4:19 pm Colin

            Good point JV. But Stuttgart is not what it once was. I had to rub my eyes in disbelief when I was recently confronted by a Porsche People Wagon/Estate/SUV.

            Whatever the terminology is for such hideous things.

            It was beautifully presented, and finely honed, but I winced when I came to the Porsche badge on the bonnet. It was a real Porsche all right.

            “How could they?” was the thought.

            A bit like Rolls-Royce manufacturing lawn-mowers.


            • on June 15, 2012 at 1:23 pm Fletch

              Lamborghini make tractors so who knows a rolls royce lawn mower may well be on its way! :)


        • on June 14, 2012 at 2:24 pm Jez Playense

          What rubbish. Winning is what matters, and if a driver wins in a car powered by coca cola none of us are going to mind except perhaps you…


        • on June 14, 2012 at 4:09 pm Colin

          Ooops! I seem to have unintentionally flushed out the Honourable (or aspiring) Hybrid drivers here. No offence intended Gents. Besides, pinks does seem to suit some chaps…


          • on June 15, 2012 at 6:27 am Adrian Newey Jnr

            News flash – horse and carriage riders proclaim the motor car “poppycock”


  8. on June 14, 2012 at 10:55 am Snowy

    Could it be that one of the reasons the teams are less inclined to see a shake-up of the formula as a golden opportunity is because the rules are so tightly constrained these days? And anything slightly radical or outside-the-box is quickly banned anyway. That opportunity just isn’t what it used to be. Trying to do something different and new just doesn’t pay off.


  9. on June 14, 2012 at 11:41 am Nigel

    Spot on again, Joe.

    Do you think there is a realistic chance of Mercedes and Renault exiting the sport if the new engines do get canned ?


    • on June 14, 2012 at 12:05 pm Joe Saward

      I do not believe that they will be canned.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 1:41 pm Nigel

        Nor do I – just considering a hypothetical.


  10. on June 14, 2012 at 11:51 am The Kitchen Cynic

    Ferrari have considerable form in clinging on to old engines and old ideas about engines.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 1:55 pm John C.

      On the other hand the last time they went racing with small capacity V6 engines they were some of the most powerful on the grid and everybody remembers Villeneuve and Arnoux taming those beasts. The time before that they were the first to produce a suitable engine and they won the Championship with Phil Hill, and remained highly competitive for the remainder of that formula, Surtees also winning in 1964. Before that, the V6 engined Ferraris of Hawthorn, Collins and Musso were only really ever beaten by other cars with the genius of Moss and Fangio behind the wheel.

      History suggests that Ferrari, of all the manufacturers, know how to deal with creating effective and powerful V6 engines. They tend to be less successful when they drift back toward their spiritual home amongst the multi-cylinder configurations.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 2:20 pm MistralMike

      And did it work out for them? With their V12, in the end they had to buy Honda technical support to get on pace. The V6 instead was much more powerful, but the chassis weren´t good.


  11. on June 14, 2012 at 12:28 pm Neal Rayner

    I wonder if there is mileage in bringing in the new engine formula but not banning the old one? Teams can choose between large high consumption engines or lean efficient lighter engines. Although maybe it means fuel stops coming back as the total weight of fuel and engine alone may not be enough of an equaliser.


  12. on June 14, 2012 at 1:28 pm karen

    The new engine regulations are vital if F1 is not to be perceived as a heritage sport.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 2:22 pm Joe Saward

      Interesting remark.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 2:25 pm Ash

        …and one which she has made at least once before, which I find equally interesting…


        • on June 14, 2012 at 5:08 pm Colin

          I believe the term is agitprop.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 3:38 pm The Kitchen Cynic

        Isn’t it just? Are you sure Karen isn’t one of the Penelopes under cover?


        • on June 14, 2012 at 3:54 pm Joe Saward

          I am not sure she would make the cut as a Penelope. The Mole has very high standards, and although I hear she is a terrific dancer and a very clever lawyer, she may not be any good at hand-to-hand combat.


          • on June 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm Ash

            Always possible that those with direct knowledge of her hand-to-hand combat skills have not survived to tell the tale, of course…


  13. on June 14, 2012 at 1:34 pm benf

    I still don’t understand what Bernie’s true agenda is when he opposes the new rules. Is he in league with someone or taking a cut from somewhere? Also I believe the rules need opening up in areas to allow for mechanical innovation rather than aero. Why can’t the rules on KERS be relaxed or tyre size?


  14. on June 14, 2012 at 1:38 pm Fletch

    I think Porsche have already created a viable 800+ BHP and 70+ MPG (maybe more) hybrid super car i think its a form of Porsche Spider. Surely a comprimise would be manufacturers who want to build V8′s do so, those that want V6 turbo’s do so, possibly increase/decrease boost to make competitive etc let the teams decide on advantages/disadvantges etc I remember an era of several diffrent engine types in one race, even turbo versus normally aspirated. I do think aero has to be decreased and give them those big fat tyres at the back they used to have (or the option). While im not a huge fan of DRS i think possibly this could be changed to you can use it so many times a race anywhere you want, instead of just in this one (or two) zone(s). Tyres, conservation has always been an issue, but i think more could be done to make it a constant decline instead of a cliff, as i like to see drivers drive on the limit on the limit of adhesion. Also despite (some warranted) safety concerns i would like refuelling brought back, just for the chance of more varied startegies
    (sorry for essay, Slow day in work)


  15. on June 14, 2012 at 2:16 pm MistralMike

    Very well put! Clearly said what had to be said!

    Recently, Jean Francois Caubet said the switch from 4 to 6 cylinders has generated sunk investments of about 50 million dollars. If this should repeat now, the executive boards of Renault, Mercedes Benz and PURE will have to pull the plug immediately and will start proceedings. The prolongued Formula Jurassic will be uninteresting furthermore. The image of Formula 1 will be damaged again and be even less attractive for investors and new manufaturers (at least, Honda is ante portas at the moment, but would you join such a casino?). If this should be “cost cutting measures” like some people believe I must have got it wrong. In fact, it is just bloody, irresponsible politics.

    So, as Ross Brawn has stated, (fortunately!) the new engine programme already is too far advanced to be stopped or postponed again without risking serious collateral damage to entire F1. So this is something the “supposed promoters of the sport [who] do no promotion at all but are there simply to take the money” should think about.

    Having said that, it is understood the teams should get a bigger slice of the cake due to the new CA, so a bigger budget should help to absorb the higher prices of the engines. Additionally, the possibilty to run the V6 at the WEC was discussed, which could be a good thing in sharing the development costs. Alas, we will loose Cosworth, but more engine slots for the manufacturers will help to lower the price.

    Concerning the creator(s) of the current discussion I must agree with G; somehow, history repeats itself: exactly 30 years ago, we had the so-called WW2 with the turbo manufacturers against BE´s FOCA struggling for future regulations. Instead of Balestre, BE now has charmed off the “Lord of the Sounds” from Melbourne. In a difficult year, with fatalities and the paradox Imola race, the struggle almost killed F1. In the end, it turned out all right: Ecclestone and Balestre lost, the following turbo era turned out to be the most prestigious so far and the Brabham-BMW, which Ecclestone desperately tried to annihilate was the champion of `83.

    At the moment, I am enjoying too the Nissan Deltawing concept being more than on the pace at Le Mans, equipped with an engine that was regarded as being non-appropriate to F1.


  16. on June 14, 2012 at 2:24 pm verstappen

    Shame they miss the opportunity to just specify an amount of fuel and maybe maximum horsepower and weight.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 4:14 pm Ash

      Or open it up even further: a spec safety cell, but then only three limitations: external dimensions, budget, and available joules of energy on the grid before the formation lap.


  17. on June 14, 2012 at 2:26 pm Jez Playense

    Great article Joe, relating the facts and giving a true insiders perspective. These are the reasons I read your page everyday!


  18. on June 14, 2012 at 3:06 pm geek49203

    Hrummmph.

    About the time the Cosworths went away in F1, CART pulled away from USAC in Indy, to chase down the sponsor dollars that they were seeing over in F1. Looking at the growing list of sponsors for both series in the 1980′s and into the 1990′s, it is clear the balance of power shifted from manufacturer to sponsor, and with it, from manufacturer’s wishes to sponsor’s wishes.

    This is an introduction to a stark fact — most major motorsports is more about entertainment (which is what the sponsors want) than R&D / technology (which I presume is what manufacturers want). F1 was able to hold out the idea that they alone were about the latest technology longer than most other series, but they too were forced to subordinate technology to fiscal realities, namely, the limit of sponsor dollars.

    I realize this comes as a crushing blow to many F1 fans. Quite frankly, I was crushed when I realized it. But yeah, this is our reality.


  19. on June 14, 2012 at 3:19 pm PhilCee

    The ACO has the right idea with its current and forthcoming rulebooks. The current F1 rules put me in mind of the late-1992 issue of Autosport with the Bamber cartoon of the ‘dinosaur bones’ of an F1 car on display in a museum.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 6:56 pm rpaco

      I agree, look at the diverse entry list for this weekend’s 24 hours Le Man’s.
      Several hybrids, which will need less fuel thus less weight, a 1.6 Turbo, it seems that ACO are showing the FIA what is needed for the future. I would not be surprised to see a Merc LMP1 entry next year. Meanwhile Audi and Toyota are heavily involved, Ferrari remain in the GP class only. An LMP1 entry by Ferrari could give Bernie and co something to think about.


      • on June 14, 2012 at 11:37 pm PhilCee

        Yeah, Le Mans’ variety is just brilliant. And we have a hydrogen car there next year! After that Porsche are making a full works return and the rules will be opened up with no air restrictors, as many cylinders as you dare run and the choice of diesel, petrol, electric or hydrogen power! There will also be a maximum fuel allowance to make economy the priority, just like it is in the boardrooms of manufacturers everywhere. The cars also come in wacky shapes and sizes. Check out the Green GT that will compete with Deltawing in 2013 for the title of world’s maddest racing car… http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120604/motorsports/120609935


        • on June 15, 2012 at 8:12 am The Kitchen Cynic

          I was watching Le Mans (night) qualifying last night, musing on the mix of exotic machinery, and the very real sense that this was a dangerous activity, not entirely in the control of its participants. “Wow” I thought, “this must be what F1 was like once…”


  20. on June 14, 2012 at 5:26 pm Peter Fox

    Not in complete agreement that aerodynamics are completely useless avenues for road car dynamics but crossovers are limited except for mostly high end stuff.
    As for engines – new V6′s with all the attendant add on’s might have some benefits to future road car use but the rules are too restrictive to allow much innovation. Unless manufacturers can get innovative advantage for marketing purposes there seems little point in changing anything until 2015 at the earliest – after all the racing this year is far more entertaining – will anyone care that the engine changes? Just screw the fuel allowance down a notch or two on the current units and open the development rules a little. What F1 doesn’t need is some pointless ‘willy’ waving because one manufacturer has a bigger budget than another.
    What is required is competitive racing – this year doesn’t seem bad to me. Another 3 years of parity would be good for the show! Maybe more innovative marketing and promotion would be a far better change of direction.
    I love the technology but without the global dollars coming in there will be no racing – better to secure the show I think.


    • on June 14, 2012 at 10:39 pm Joe Saward

      I think you need to read the rules again.


  21. on June 14, 2012 at 8:04 pm Random

    It’s not hard to see why the teams prefer today’s engine equality to the previous era of drastic engine inequality.

    Through much of the 90′s and early 00′s, having the best car with the best driver meant nothing unless you also had a top works engine.

    There wouldn’t have been 7 different winners this season with the engine rules of a decade ago. If they can bring in turbos with the current levels of equalization, fine. If they can’t, keep the current lumps.


    • on June 15, 2012 at 10:34 am Ambient Sheep

      Yes, this is what worries me about the new rules: we’re currently enjoying a level of competition and variety that I’ve never seen before in the 20 years or so I’ve been following F1. If one engine manufacturer manages to get it much more right than the others in the new formula, it will be back to boring drone-a-thons if we’re not careful.

      So, while agreeing that in principle the new rules are a good thing to keep F1 relevant and encourage innovation, I do fear for the quality of “the show”. What we have right now is brilliant, and I’m tempted to take the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” point of view.

      It’s a real dilemma.


  22. on June 14, 2012 at 9:38 pm zak

    Surely a company like Ferrari, built on the concept of innovation and excellence, should be driving ever faster forwards, trying to build hybrid supercars, that do things that no-one has ever dreamed of doing before? If not, then someone else will…

    Are you writing Sci-Fi now ? If one day Ferrari understand that (but I doubt they will) Le Mans is the place for developping new hybrid technologies the party is over with F-1…


    • on June 14, 2012 at 10:28 pm Joe Saward

      Not with the future F1.


      • on June 15, 2012 at 5:07 am zak

        Not so sure about the “Not with the future F-1″ !

        These new technologies are going to be very expensive to developp. From an engineering point of view, it will be far more effective, cheapier and safer to developp it in a double seater than in a single seater.

        The first generation of true hybrid cars in racing will need a lot of space to be physically packed on board and cooled down. Can you imagine how much it will cost just to reduce in size these components to integrate them in a F-1 monoposto ? How difficult it will be to cool it down ?

        The “future F-1″ will use the hybrid technology in a very limited way and for cost reason all the teams will be using the same design. The powertrain developpement pace will be slow if any.

        F-1, the FiA premier serie is clearly behind now in term of developping road relevant powertrain technologies. That’s the area that matters for road cars, not downforce.

        The WEC gives the best plateform to experiment with the new recovery systems both in term of cost efficiency and road relevance before going to mass production.The manufacturers will notice that…


        • on June 15, 2012 at 5:49 am Joe Saward

          Yes, but no one watches it. A point you need to take into account.


  23. on June 15, 2012 at 5:06 am zak

    Not so sure about the “Not with the future F-1″ !

    These new technologies are going to be very expensive to developp. From an engineering point of view, it will be far more effective, cheapier and safer to developp it in a double seater than in a single seater.

    The first generation of true hybrid cars in racing will need a lot of space to be physically packed on board and cooled down. Can you imagine how much it will cost just to reduce in size these components to integrate them in a F-1 monoposto ? How difficult it will be to cool it down ?

    The “future F-1″ will use the hybrid technology in a very limited way and for cost reason all the teams will be using the same design. The powertrain developpement pace will be slow if any.

    F-1, the FiA premier serie is clearly behind now in term of developping road relevant powertrain technologies. That’s the area that matters for road cars, not downforce.

    The WEC gives the best plateform to experiment with the new recovery systems both in term of cost efficiency and road relevance before going to mass production.The manufacturers will notice that…


  24. on June 15, 2012 at 11:03 am Michael Coffee

    Ughh. Lets have a vote.

    Let Toyota back in to F1.

    They then give each team 50 prius engines, some turbos and a box of radiators, hoses etc at start of each season.

    F1 engine tech moves into to late 1990′s.

    A yes vote here..


    • on June 15, 2012 at 2:20 pm Jem

      I’ll vote yes if you allow teams to put all 50 on the same car….


  25. on June 15, 2012 at 7:08 pm Neal Weingart

    A brilliantly thought out and reasoned article Mr. Saward. I totally agree with your view point. Your use of Honda as an exampe was perfect. With management and philosophy changes overtaking Honda in the 21st century it’s easy to see why they have become less innovative and more a follow- the-pack type of car company (in spite of the new NSX).
    I particularly enjoyed your statement concerning aerodynamics, well done!


  26. on June 17, 2012 at 2:19 pm Adam

    Joe,
    Yes, engineers are very clever to pipe air around their chassis, but how can this help the road car world?

    Well pretty simply put it could be used if as much creative energy went into road car aero as is expended on an F1 car!

    Road cars have massive wake because people care about looks rather than a slippery low drag shape, low drag road cars have very little character. So why not use the air from the front of the car to improve air flow by careful injection at the rear? Just because it has not been done does not mean it can’t be done. Would you have said five years ago that the F Duct won’t work? If F1 can provoke a road car engineer to think about the concept then F1 has achieved something positive. Unfortunately aero on cars is an afterthought that follows after the design is roughed out (if at all). But reduced drag at 70 MPH in a straight line on a highway would be a great way to improve road cars. Tubes for ducting air are cheaper than R and D on engine refinements to get a few more MPG. So yes they need to pursue it and we need to encourage road car designers to open there minds up in the way that McLaren engineers turned the lemons of a rear wing that did not work into the F Duct!



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