Sebastian Vettel might to want to go to Ferrari one day, but at the moment he is in a team that has supported his entire career; that has won him two World Championships, that has shown that it can bounce back from adversity and that gives him a little help if his team mate is a little too close for comfort. At the same time he is paid very large amounts of money, even if some of the other drivers have older deals that are worth more.
There is a need at the moment to lower some of these salaries, to take into account some economic realities.
Ferrari on the other hand has arguably the best driver in the world today. He is leading the World Championship, despite obviously not having the right car. The only weakness that we have ever really seen in him (apart from some suspicions about his involvement in some dodgy activities in Singapore in 2009) was in 2007 when he was knocked sideways by the pace of a young Lewis Hamilton and ended up getting himself into a terrible mess with the McLaren team – and being forced to leave and go back to a lesser team until he could get a Ferrari seat.
Fernando says that he is not bothered about any possible team-mate, but one has to ask whether Ferrari is really willing to gamble and put two supermen into the same telephone box. Is it not better to have a number one driver and a very good number two? The tradition at Ferrari was exactly that, particularly with Michael Schumacher’s team-mates waiting on him hand and foot. The team had total control of the drivers, to the extent that, for example, Mika Salo gave up his only ever chance of a Formula 1 victory because the team wanted him to support Eddie Irvine, who was a good number 2 but not up to the task of standing in for Michael Schumacher when he broke his leg.
The current Alonso-Felipe Massa relationship is good, but Massa is just not delivering enough points. Over at Red Bull, Mark Webber is bringing home the bacon, race after race. Surely it would be a better move for Ferrari to hire Webber for the next two years?
If Alonso starts to lose his speed, then a new star will need to be found for the red cars from Maranello, but in that scenario I can imagine the Scuderia going for a Lewis Hamilton or a Sebastian Vettel. Until that happens I just do not see Vettel going there. It makes no sense.
On the other hand Ferrari has long had a habit of signing options with drivers several years in advance so maybe there is a provisional deal with Vettel, just in case he is needed. I doubt that, but it is possible.
At least the Vettel rumours are slightly more realistic than Kubica suddenly turning up at the team.
I guess IF they do have Vettel for 2014, it will be interesting to see what they do with Perez. It’s a similar situation, ironically, to when they brought in Massa in 2006, presumably knowing that Raikkonen was coming in for 2007.
I agree. I also think the Ferrari/Vettel link will die down if Alonso can win the WDC this year. Ferrari loves to win and when they are not winning, there are always links to the next best thing. If Vettel wins again, I would expect the link to heat up. Although if I’m Vettel I don’t see how I could leave a dominating team.
“two supermen into the same telephone box” – you have such a wonderful way with words sometimes, Joe, one of the many reasons I’ve been reading you for nearly 20 years now…
loved the phrase too – the combination doesn’t seem too far fetched though given the Ferrari pressure to win – although of course last time with LH and FA there were tears – it would be great fun too watch – ‘Sebastian is faster than you’
Sounds the same as what Livio Orricchio wrote in Estadao. I agree with him.
For a long time now, Ferrari have always preferred to support one top driver. It is probably impossible to know how good Irvine et al were in the Schumi era because of the huge elephant on the seasaw which received most of the food. You experts and us spectators were hugely impressed with what rookie Hamilton did to Alonso and big elephants at Ferarri have good memories. So there is no way he would allow Vettel to join. If he does, I would think Alonso would swap. Now there’s a silly season rumour.
But where would Alonso go? A direct swap with Vettel perhaps?
That’s what I meant by a silly season rumour. Alonso could swap places.
The only thing that makes me think there could be something to this is that to my knowledge, neither Ferrari nor Vettel have just come out and flatly stated that no agreement of any kind exists. If they’ve made such a statement my apologies, but it seems the quickest way to kill this rumor is to issue a statement denying it (even then there would still be doubters). I know Vettel has said he is very happy with Red Bull, but I don’t remember him saying he has not signed anything with Ferrari.
I think Vettel did just that last weekend:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100539/
What are you an Autosport advertising salesman? They copied it from Auto Motor und Sport
Joe, far from it
I didn’t see that article on Auto Motor und Sport, otherwise I might have posted a link to that page instead.
I see your point but what I was alluding to was that I have not read or seen any comments from either party denying a contract between them exists. Reading the article I think that point still stands. I’m probably nitpicking, but divining the future drivers market is all about reading between the lines. Again I’ve heard Vettel say numerous times that he’s happy and has no reason to move to Ferrari, but I’ve never heard either party just come out and flatly say that no contract exists. I’m pretty sure Webber recently flat out stated that he’s not signed anything with Ferrari. Just wondering why Vettel doesn’t state the same as plainly as Webber has.
Massa could still be in the Red car next year than.
The big question mark? is will Merc and Schuey resign extension?
Good article, but many spelling mistakes.
If you wish to mark things, may I suggest you become a schoolteacher. I write, I publish. I have things to do.
I have double checked and there are no spelling errors.
That is because I fixed them. When I have time I do that.
methinks we have a troll….and you bit
Occasionally one needs to bite
The comma after the word ‘article’ is superfluous or are you using it as a serial or Oxford comma? I think we should be told.
No, forget it; we should stick to motorsport.
Where’s the Like button when you need it
Why don’t you use a capital letter to begin your name Mr. roshandawrani?
Such laziness makes a terrible impression.
Joe has now taught you the meaning of the idiom;
“He doesn’t suffer fools gladly”.
“Good article, but many spelling mistakes”,
Joe’s followers come here for information and insight that is not available elsewhere.
Get a life and go somewhere else with your foolish and unwarranted comments.
There’s no need to be nasty. The journalistic world is crammed with pedants.
There IS a need to be nasty, suffering fools gladly isn’t one of my traits.
Because we are Ferrrrrrrarrri!
But on a serious note, Alonso vs Vettel would go sour quickly I think. I’m pretty sure if Hamilton and Button were closer then they would sour too. Two top drivers only works when each think they have a different way to win.
Alonso vs Vettel would be Prost vs Senna all over again. Alonso the clever racer like Prost, Vettel the qualifying demon like Senna. However I believe Alonso and Vettel are more intelligent and would not drive into eachother’s cars in the way Prost and Senna used to do.
Unlike say Vettel and Webber driving in to each other?
Except there are massive differences between Alonso and Prost.
Just a couple of biggies…
1) Prost was never the darling of the team. He had been at the team a while and was very whiley, but never was the beloved drivers like Senna was (with Ron Dennis). In that way Alonso is more like Senna. Alonso feeds off and works off the team and being part of a team. Prost wasn’t that guy.
I think a large part of ’07 was that both Hamilton and Alonso wanted to be the teams’ ‘driver’… the one with the emotiona backing of the team. THey need that. Hamilton needs to be pushed on andnot feel like hes going it alone. Alonso was only successful when he had the backing of the team (Renault and Ferrari… note no McLaren). Vettel has the backing of Marko and RBR.
For this reason I don’t think having Vettel and/or Hamilton and/or Alonso in the same team would work at all.
2) Realted the first, but Marko has said Vettel needs the car to be setup to his style and one of Webbers abilities is beingable to work in a wider setup window. This wouldn’t work unless Vettel had some power in the development process, something Alonso who also has a very strong style of his own wouldn’t lke.
Whiley is an interesting new word.
surprised the troll didn’t have a go at this one!
Hahaha. Typing while tired does equal lack spelling.
But no offense Joe, but you can’t really have a go at spelling in your responses while at the same time getting anoyed when others post back spelling mistakes in your blog posts.
Red Bull might sign Webber because he’s in the running for the drivers’ championship. They wouldn’t want him to risk him winning it and moving to Ferrari. And more importantly, who would Red Bull sign to replace him?
I always wondered how much technical knowledge drivers can take with them. I realise these individuals are not engineers but you’d have to be concerned as Red Bull that losing Webber might mean a few trade secrets going to Maranello…
I think Vettel will win the World Championship this year. Now, if Vettel were at Ferrari right now, would he be doing as good of a job as Alonso? Maybe, maybe not. I think Vettel still needs to mature some more. Perhaps Ferrari thinks he eventually will…
So Joe if hypothetically speaking Webber leaves for Ferrari, then who do you think is a good fit for the vacant seat at Red Bull?
Jean-Eric Vergne
Not impressed by Ricciardo?
I did not say that. Seems like a very nice chap. But I’m not making the decisions, am I ?
You still think “he’s a killer” and Ricky Riccardo is too nice? Riccardo seems to have qualy pace over Vergne.
They are birth young. Daniel has more experience, but JEV is usually matching or beating him. Look at comments made in Valencia by Franz Toast! Yes, that is a deliberate spelling mistake.
I always thought that Franz Toast and Jerome Jambrosio were very close! On a serious note, surely the Ferrari interest in Seb is a long term plan for when Alonso retires.
Interesting that Daniel’s stock seems to have slid quite a bit since the beginning of the year. What do you think has caused it?
If Vergne were to get the RBR call up, how long do you think Dr Helmut would give Daniel before taking on another new driver?
Marko is not famous for subtlety.
After his impressive test, I expected more from Eric this year. Perhaps he’s an Autumn blossom?
I think you underestimate how difficult it is to do this.
Even after that fiasco at Valencia? Hasn’t Riccardio been giving him a hard time at Torro Rosso ?
Wouldn’t it be refreshing if you could just ask Sebastian what are his plans, and he told the truth? Instead of people holding cards close to their chest, as if these are secrets of life and death.
Of all the drivers on the grid, he seems to be the most down to earth and straight-forward. Might be worth asking him.
The fans must be told!!
If Nando is really not bothered who his team-mate is, and if Ferrari really reckons it can run 2 WDCs with no problem . . . there is a certain 7-time world champion with a bit of Ferrari history who is out of contract at the end of the season. Now THAT would be a story!
Vettle in red? Not unless redbull have new colour scheme.
It would be great to see vettel, hamilton and rosberg at new teams – we could then see how big their talents really are. Alonso has proved his by moving around and performing. He is in control – are hamilton and vettel or just very good puppy dogs brought up a certain way to obey? There is no doubt of their speed – i struggle to feel they are great champions, as we know in list of them since 1950 there are few true greats……
There’s other options other than Webber, dare I say Nico, Di Resta, Hulkenburg but none of those have the proven talents the way Webber does. There will always be question marks about Nico and Webber was faster than him at Williams. The others don’t have the experience.
I think this makes a lot of sense. Webber for a couple of years and then it’s looking at their bank of drivers who currently have less experience but will be well groomed by then (Perez etc.) or if Alonso starts sliding a more established driver like Hamilton or Vettel.
That’s called being prepared.
If Irvine had not had to favour Shumi in the first part of the season then the job would not have been so big after Silverstone. You never know when backing the thoroughbred is going to go wrong because of an accident.
Joe,
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I think that is the likely explanation, recent history is often a good predictor of people’s future actions. IE they showed MS the door and when they had Kimi on the hook, they got a deal with Alonso and Kimi went rallying, so why not send Alonso off on vacation, if you have a deal with Vettel? I think it is more of the same behavior and it is not “in case” they are needed, but they always want the apparent best driver around as number one in the team. Getting close to your sell by date is not a good place to be at Ferrari, ask Rubbens. You can still drive at the front of the field, does not mean they need or want you.
If you are to look at the recent history you cite, Ferrari where dissatisfied with Kimi’s performance at the time and as far as I can tell they are ecstatic about Alonso’s performance to date, so why prepare to send him on vacation when he’s at his best giving the team a fighting chance?
True on Kimi, but not on MS. So Alonso better watch out! In the end he could be sent away all the same.
Joe, first time commenter here – magnificent blog, so thank you for that.
Do you happen to know what the situation is with Grosjean? Is he under contract long-term to Lotus? His efforts this year are surely putting him on the radar of many teams (Ferrari? Or even Red Bull in a Renault generated switch?)
He’s with Lotus
I agree Martin.
Grosjean’s second bite of the pastie is a big one, very impressive.
I think Renault will have noticed and have him signed up long term. A good team to stay with anyway. Kubica “chose” them didn’t he, when things looked bleak.
The other outstanding performer this year is Paul Di Resta, managed by Anthony Hamilton.
You can be sure Paul’s discipline and performances has reminded errant Lewis which side of the toast to put the jam on.
Renault? He is signed by Lotus F1 team and is managed by Gravity. I don’t see him going anywhere for a while yet.
The problem of number 1 and number 2 drivers is who will willingly accept the role of a number 2? Certainly not a guy like Webber who still has aspirations of a WDC in his sights?
The only way to make the 1-2 concept work is to bring in a new, raw driver as a designated No. 2 with the expectation that they will have the opportunity to grow into a No. 1 role if they have the chops and when the No. 1 is no longer effective.
I agree that to get to F1, drivers have to have a sense of self belief. However, I would suggest you could convince a seasoned older driver who has been in the mid field for most of his career to join a top tier team as a number 2. They might not win the WDC, but they could at least get the occassional win. Nothing would irk me more if I were a driver than ~100 starts and no podiums, wins, etc. It would also be a good way to raise your stock/profile for the post-career TV commentary position. Ex-Ferrari driver sounds better than ex-HRT for example.
But you might feel differently if you gave won a lot if races, we’re coming to the end if your F1 career and were invited to join Ferrari. That us a compliment.
I tinhk yuro’e bneig too stulbe wtih yuor sllepnig erorrs Joe.
I think the big elephant in the room in all this is that people are assuming that Webber will believe that Ferrari would be a nice way to end his career as a No.2 to Alonso.
Frankly I still see nothing from Webber that suggests to me that he is a willing number 2 at Red Bull to Vettel. 2010 he almost won the title and frankly Red Bull got lucky that Vettel got it in the end (Webber threw it away in Korea really). Last year Seb smashed him but Webber was never happy with the car and certainly pushed Vettel when he had the chance. This season Webber has been incredibly consistant and now leads Seb in the championship. If this is still the case in 2 months, would he really sign away any chance he has of a title (this year or in the future) by signing for Ferrari.
Or do you know for a fact that he has accepted that he is a number 2 at Red Bull Joe??
Hmmm, the only fellow I know that fits that description might be…..Barcichllo
Vettel to Ferrari might not be that far fetched when we mention sponsership? Alonso, though big now in drawing Santander as a title sponsor, there could be trouble ahead. Spain is taking as many handouts as is can get and in joe’s previous articals mentioned the impending doom of argentina.
So maybe some german blood behind the wheel might be just what ferrari are hoping for?
I do guess webber will be the one though…….for now.
I dont think Ferrari is really interesting with Vettel, at least for now. They are may be just trying to upset RBR with rumours about their lead driver. This is more like a politic game that both Vettel and Ferrari may get benefit. Vettel will have a stronger hand when it comes to demand money from his team and Ferrari will get benefit if RBR forced to pay more for a driver.
I dont think any team boss would change Alonso with any other driver while he is delivering such a good performance with a very good consistency. He is exactly a little bit better than all others and I think his mentality also matured, not perfect but still better than the past. ( I think there is no need to mention antics he did while he was driving for Renault and Mclaren).
Again this is just my personal thought and sorry to Vettel fans but the real deal for Ferrari is not Vettel but Hamilton. If you are looking for a raw talent who can create some magic on track he is Hamilton. A little more mentaly strong Hamilton has every quality to lead the red team. He is the one who will replace Alonso.
Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh would/have gotten rid of Alonso when he was driving well for a start!
I know you lead with an apology to Vettel fans… and I am not offended by your claim that Hamilton would do better at Ferarri than Vettel… mostly because it ignores obvious facts such as statistics. Vettel is just a superior driver. The only statistic that Hamilton bests Vettel at is podium finishes. Vettel has 8 fewer. But he also has NINE fewer races than the Ham. Vettel has more wins… more championships… better qualifying, and more carreer points (and this is with nine fewer races than Hamilton). They are tied for fast laps.
And I would also argue that Vettel is a far more mature driver than Hamilton. Fewer outbursts and less incidents on the track. But that part is just my opinion.
I agree Vettel at Ferrari doesn’t make a lot of sense but the rumours seem strong.
Fascinating Joe that you confirm more or less the regular suspicion that red bull will help vettel out if webber gets a little too eager or successful. In light of that webber might be less wary of being a designated number two driver at Ferrari since he’s already one at RBR. and since webber actually likes alonso it might be more harmonious. The dislike webber has for vettel is palpable.
Does Webber actually dislike Vettel? If so why? Because Vettel wins more than him? Is that not Webbers problem? Should his dislike not be directed at his own self and lack of wins?
Why does Vettel get all this hate? I don’t get it. It must be because he is a damn good driver.
I don’t think he does, but if he did, Japan 2007 and Turkey 2010 , not to mention Silverstone 2010 might give him some reason to.
F1 logic? Hmmm.
Joe, with MW’s results so far this year, it’s likely he may end up in the situation reported in 2010 where he had the option of a Ferrari seat but being still in the running for the WDC he chose to sign with RBR hoping to keep a good performing unit underneath him for the remaining races….do you see this as a factor in determining his 2013 seat?
No
Kind of answers my question above. Do you think he would sign away any chance he had this year then?
xvr, I agree with you, at least in your first two paragraphs. Anyway why put two bulls in one paddock, as Frank Williams has said in the past. Alonso has shown before that he doesn’t like working with faster drivers in the same team, witness Trulli at Renault for part of 2004 and Hamilton at McLaren.
“and being forced to leave…”
really?, Alonso wanted to be out way before the spygate. Nobody forced him out, it was a mutual agreement between Dennis and Alonso to cut the contract because the thing wasn’t working.
Alos, I love the myth, “Alonso don’t want strong teammates”, even if that was true at some point in his career, we are 2012, and Alonso “own” Ferrari with his performance on the circuits and the factory, I doubt he is scared of anyone, because he knows that Ferrari will give both drivers equal treatment or even better treatment for him as the leader of the team (right now), so Alonso is scared of none.
You have very little idea of what was going at McLaren in 2007.
Not trolling here but are the Alonso rumours to do with something dodgy in Singapore in 2009 or are you referring to the 2008 ‘crashgate’ thing?
In practical terms Vettel would be moving away from the winners of the past few seasons to one of the losers…it doesn’t make sense to him if he wants to keep winning. RBR create internal politics for him at their expense and they have Newey. It’s *the* hotseat for someone that wants to win.
In terms of marketing…Vettel is German, young, a terrible loser and a bit of a strange blend. A superb talent but again, a terrible loser. I know it’s happened before but *that* form of driver never sat well in Ferrari’s marketing strategy. They won everything but an up-tight German in an emotional Ferrari does not work. It’s like a bio technician working in a family kitchen, it doesn’t fit.
An emotional Mediterranean though, who’s an exceptional driver, that wins grand prix he really shouldn’t and has that emotional edge is perfect. To me, Ferrari have found their perfect driver. If I worked at Maranello I’d take every opportunity to use him to flog the road cars.
Anyone who can buy a Ferrari would love to be Alonso, he’s the guy who wins the Grand Prix, gets the girl and drives off into the sunset. Vettel goes home to count his trophies…
As for Massa…The list of potential replacements is pretty good…Webber, Button or pretty much any of them in the Sauber, Force India, STR or Caterham. Any of those guys will bring back more pancetta than Massa.
In what way is Vettel even remotely close to being a terrible loser. Every loss that he has had he shrugs it off. The exception being the “cucumber” incident earlier this year. If you want to talk about terrible losers… let’s look at Lewis Hamilton.
Honestly believe they are equally bad losers. But then the vast majority are, to be successful at ANY sport you really do have be a bad loser, to a certain extent anyway, and i say that from years of personal experience in sport. The trick with sportsman in the public eye as much as F1 drivers are, is to hide it incredibly well!
What are you on about?! How about the way he refuses to accept obvious blame when he hits Webber/Karthikeyan and instead hides behind the RBR walls? He moans, kicks toys, pouts and utterly hates it.
You know Josh, I am inclined to agree with Peter J. Ultimately they all do that. I have seen both Hamilton and Shumacher throw their thirty thousand dollar steering wheels out of the cockpit after an off. Vettel threw his gloves in Valencia and Hamilton pounded his steering wheel multiple times as visible in the replay. Big deal. Drivers love to play the blame game too. So what are you on about? Why do you think Vettel is so much worse than any other driver?
I hate to say it but Eddie Jordan made a good point at Valencia when talking after the race. Why don’t Ferrari go for a young guy and develop him just like McLaren and Red Bull have done. Hamilton was groomed by McLaren from a very young age. Vettel was supported by Red Bull during his early career and came up through their junior system.
The have ruled Perez out because he is not a complete driver yet. But why not take a stab in the dark, employ him; develop him into a team player and give him the best opportunity available to a young driver…. to learn from one of the best drivers in the world.
Perez could learn so much from Alonso that it wouldn’t be long before he was taking over his #1 position when FA retires.
Surely Vettel can use rumours of a Ferrari or even Mercedes switch to push up his price at Red Bull? He is still very young and could bank a few more titles at Red Bull before joining Ferrari when Alonso retires? Seems more likely.
Okay Joe – please answer these Qs (in your opinion) which keep me awake at night..
1. Will Hamilton re-sign for McLaren?
2. Who do you think will replace Schuey (whenerver that day comes)
3. Based on ability (as opposed to financial muscle) do you agree that only Razia and Calado will make it into F1 from current crop of GP2
4. Should Kovalainen get a chance at a mid-table team? Maybe replacing Senna?
1. Yes
2. Paul di Resta
3. No I also rate Gutierrez
4. He already had one.
2. Hulkenberg has looked good at times this year though, what would it take from him to edge Paul out do you think?
4. Doesn’t deserve another? He was an almost infinite amount better than Grojsean in their respect first chances and for me at least, he is doing an outstanding job at Caterham
Joe thanks for the quick reply – I will sleep better now!! I thought you would answer 1 and 2 like that. I would like to see Calado or Gutierrez at Force India to replace Di Resta who relpaces Shuey, and Razia replace Kovy who replaces Senna. i think Kovy deserves another shot at a mid table team.
Okay final question relating to above. In your opinion who is not good enough for F1 from current crop?Or to rephrase are any GP2 drivers worth a shot next season in place of a Senna or a Petrov? I dont worry too much about HRT or Marussia drivers, none of which I think are good enough for F1, so like their teams are just making up the numbers.
Joe, in your opinion would “customer cars” be a good move for F1?
I can see Ferrari and McLaren B teams increasing the quality in comparison to an HRT and Marussia – we could perhaps see them at a Torro Rosso level? But am unsure as to whether this would do more harm than good, especially if you are a Sauber, Williams or Force India and maybe Caterham who are doing all the hard work themselves?
It may be a positive in terms of (a) bring the field closer together (all cars within 1.5 seconds), but may create fairness issues. I imagine the other issue being that you would have more “development drivers” in “finishing schools” replacing established mid-table drivers, so more Ricciardos and Vergnes replacing Buemis and Algersuaris. Might not be a bad thing, but then again it will mean you only get 1 shot in F1 to move from development team to big team and if you dont cut it you are out – so maybe no 2nd chances like Grosjean got?
Would a better alternative be more outsourcing of expertise to spread cost and even the field – a bit like the help Force India had from McLaren a couple of years ago? (not sure if this is still active).
Im just keen to know the best way to bring the backmarkers up to at least a mid-table level asap. Or is it just a case of hard work and time like Caterham and Force India have achieved?
Hey joe,
A bitt off topic here but how high do you rate Van der Garde? its been a while for us dutch people cheer about something in f1 racing….
I had to laugh at something I have just read about Red Bull:
H Marko complaining that life was difficult, winning and having a special Bernie deal makes things complicated. Other teams seem jealous and are always complaining.
Maybe a run of failures will make life easier for him, poor thing!
I just assumed this was all about destabilizing things at McLaren.
If it looks like Vettel might leave Red Bull then Hamilton might want to keep his options open. Rather than signing a long-term deal with McLaren, bringing driver and team together for a full blown title tilt this year.