It seems that Thailand is bidding for a Grand Prix, at least according to newspapers in that country. There have been stories of a Thai Grand Prix for several years, because of the connection between Thailand and Red Bull, the original drink company being based there, but up to now there has only been speculation. I did hear a couple of months ago that Thailand should be taken seriously as a candidate and that the plan was for a street race in Thailand. The newspaper reports suggest that the event will be held at night, just as happens in Singapore. But, as we all know in F1, the show is not over until the fat lady sings and so it is probably not very wise for the locals to be jabbering to the media before a deal is done. The plan is for a race in 2014 but the calendar for that year is fairly business already, although some of the projects mentioned are not necessarily going to happen. This all helps Ecclestone to keep the price of the sport going up. The teams are saying that 20 races is enough and more and more countries seem to be interested and so the logical conclusion is that F1 will go to the highest bidder, or at least the bidder that offers the most in a place that is strategically interesting for Formula 1.
At the moment there are new races being discussed in France, Mexico, the United States, Turkey, Russia and Thailand. There has been talk of others. The problem is that they cannot all be fitted on the calendar. Ecclestone himself is talking down New Jersey, although this is probably in order to get money that has been promised on the table. It would not be a wise idea to dump the New York event for the sake of a few million dollars – and Ecclestone knows that – but he has to keep up appearances. France is largely dependent on money and the government (inevitably) is not helping. This means that if there is to be a French event, there will have to be guarantees from regional governments, as Mr E’s lawyers like this kind of thing before handing out racing, so they know that they will be guaranteed their cash. There are doubts about some of the current races in the long term, notably Korea, Germany and Belgium.
There are many questions also being asked about the race in Russia, although in recent days the Russian Automobile Federation has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Automobile and Touring Club of the UAE to train senior Russian officials and volunteers in preparation for the planned event in 2014. The agreement was signed by ATCUAE President Mohammed Ben Sulayem and Lieutenant General Victor Kiryanov, the President of the Russian Automobile Federation. The initial agreement may be extended to provide Russia with further advice on mobility issues such as road safety, international documentation and environmental initiatives.
General Kiryanov said that the F1 circuit in Sochi will be completed in time. Around 40 Russian officials and marshals will attend the upcoming Abu Dhabi Grand Prix at the Yas Marina Circuit as part of the training.
Photos from Sochi – http://www.championat.com/photo/auto/60/8763/349517-maket-trassy-formuly-1-v-sochi.html
This we have seen. But where are the bulldozers? You cannot run F1 cars around fancy models.
that proposed circuit is quite odd, with copious amounts of 90 degree turns
Somewhat unfortunate timing given that the grandson of the Red Bull founder has just been indicted for a hit & run involving his Ferrari killing a motorcycle cop. Especially if they decide on running a Bangkok street circuit…
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/310560/red-bull-owner-grandson-arrested
I sw that, but that is not directly important in F1 and so I did not cover it.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom – let your email find you!
I thought Belgium was safe again, no more alternating with France.
Korea, big gamble by the inexperienced Korean organisers to even attempt
having a F1 race out in the middle of nowhere.
If it was in Seoul would it have been better??
German economy doing better than most EU nations.
Why not?
Belgium is safe for three years.
Re Korea – It wasn’t a gamble, it was ignorant arrogance. I think that’s why they pay the highest of any race-Bernie knew he had a fish on the end of the line and he reeled them in.
I’ve lived here for more than a decade and have seen too many white elephants here to count.
I’m going this year (for the first time) because I believe it WILL be the last one. The local government doesn’t have the money…
They will find it for three more years.
Ignorant arrogance on the part of the Korean organisers?
How and why?
I understand construction work has begun on the International-class ‘Velocuidad’ (Speed City) circuit near Buenos Aires -www.velocuidadba.com – which is hoping to attract a Grand Prix back to Argentina in the near future.
I don’t believe they are bidding for a GP. In any case, the Argentine economy is in freefall and the government is losing popularity by the day.
So we can expect another attack on the Falklands some time in the not too distant future then?!
Thanks joe of a good heads up on this.
As ever the danger is of F1 losing its soul. The fact that Red Bull has ties to Thailand might mean something to the marketing people at RB and to guys like yourself who are interested in the business side of F1 as well as the racing. But you have to remember that F1 is popular not because of the business or the marketing or the sponsors but because of people like me who like the tachnology and the racing.
In recent years the technology has taken a real back seat with all the homologation and stricter rules and races have gone to emerging markets only to find that the fans in many of these markets do not exist as there is no history of motor racing in these countries. Turkey, China, etc, etc I’m sure this puts a few quid towards CVC’s debts but is not a long term investment. Unfortunately the debt based model relies on growth where I suspect racing series like this would be better run trying to better concentrate on consolidation and making a profit with a far slower growth model.
This coupled with the shutting out of the fans in the countries where there are lots of knowledgeable fans. i.e. France having no GP, Germany going pop, Free-to-air being priced out of the market. Do not bode well for the long-term as the next generation of fans will be lost.
As to chasing America I really can’t see this happening the Americans have some very popular series and they just don’t get F1. I’ve tried to get into watching pretend cars running on 1960′s technology going round in circles and while spectacular on the surface, for me, it lacks the background intricacies of the F1 circus. I have friends in the US who have a similar feeling about F1, interesting but ultimately not their thing.
$800. Please, please compare what $800 buys at Michigan International Speedway (“Victory Lane Club”, http://www.mispeedway.com/Get-Tickets/Upgrade-Your-Experience/Victory-Lane-Club.aspx) vs. Circuit of the Americas (“3 Day Premium Seating”, http://www.circuitoftheamericas.com/tickets). The comparison speaks volumes. I have no personal interest in promoting MIS. I merely wish to illuminate the sneering.
Your conclusions about Americans wrt F1 are incorrect. Your conclusions about the F1 business model are not. The two subjects are connected.
Americans “just don’t get F1″? F1 has no American drivers, has not raced here in six years, staged a fiasco in 2005 that saw six cars take the grid (on a circuit ill-suited for the purpose), has no American manufacturer involved, and is broadcast too early in the morning for most Americans to wake up on Sunday (on a niche network), or on a delay that renders it old news. Maybe F1 doesn’t “get” America. But blaming the audience for not watching the show is not correct.
My first impression is that this is aimed at Australia .
Melbourne wants a reduced sanctioning fee and Bernie wants a night race there .
I expect there will eventually be talk of Thailand slotting in at the beginning of the year .
Personally , I think a grand prix in Thailand would be great but a night race ?
Singapore has set the bar extremely high and any comparison would possibly show Bangkok in a lesser light (no pun intended) .
If Thailand , with RedBull backing , are serious they really should think of something unique and spectacular . Something that is new and exciting and good for Bangkok , Thailand and Formula One .
Just like Singapore did . Only different .
Thailand is fine, night is OK if they really have no originality, but PLEASE not another street race. This is a racing sport not a tourism gimmick. Real racetracks only from now.
If students can get there on the cheap, it at least bodes well that lots of people will be able to get to a Thai GP cost-effectively.
The ‘Sports Authority Governor’ is quoted as saying that the cost to build the track would be Bt$100m/$3.1m. Surely he’s in for a shock?
It’d be a Turkey, in the literal and metaphorical senses.
There’s absolutely zero ground-base enthusiasm for motor-racing, despite the glorious history of Prince Chula and Prince Bira.
The chatter in the two English language newspapers can be ignored. Both have sold out what reputation they had, two years ago, to curry advertising income. They ditched the sound journalists and kept the yes-men and yes-women.
Besides all that, there’s great political turmoil, and points scoring. Remember when the Prime-Minister was telling punters he was bidding to buy Liverpool Football Club? As if! What a mutual disaster that would have precipitated.
His younger sister is now PM, and her phone-bill must be enormous.
Let them talk, but don’t take it seriously.
Its actually his daughter.
I think you’ll find Ms Yingluck is his sister…
… And Melbourne wants a reduction in race fees…
the plan of having two night races in the same continent as well as two countries right beside each other will adversely affect the night race fever when both Singapore and Thailand are head to head in emerging as a global destination for sports.
I think Thailand can’t afford such huge investment for a Night GP dont you Joe?
“It would not be a wise idea to dump the New York event for the sake of a few million dollars – and Ecclestone knows that – but he has to keep up appearances.”
I love it! Great way to put it, Joe.
And as for Americans “not getting” F1 (as another poster put it), I beg to differ. For sure, F1 doesn’t have history or mental shelf space among Americans the way it does, say, in Italy or Britain. But there is a core of fans here measured in the 100s of thousands, who tune in to Speed (who carry it on TV and do so very well) and plenty of fans who travel to Montreal in person.
Football/Soccer is an object lesson; 20 years ago it was nowhere as a professional sport here in the U.S.; now we have a credible second-tier professional league (MLS) and regularly produce top-flight players (Donovan, Dempsey) who play in Europe. All it took was time and commitment.
The key is continuity. And as long as Bernie remains in charge and F1 remains a coin-operated series, F1 will remain a niche series in the U.S. because there are other options (distasteful to some though they may be…). Say what you will about Nascar, but they honor their fans’ commitment by maintaining continuity and tradition. It’s sometimes cloying, but the dollars speak for themselves.
I’ve never understood Bernie’s decision to charge such high race fees. F1 collectively makes a lot of money from broadcast rights, trackside advertising and corporate promotions (eg entertainment packages). Race promoters pay the race fee on the expectation that ticket sales will cover their costs; ticket sales provide almost all of their income from the event. Thus it seems short sighted to gouge the promoters.
The recipe for a good event requires an enthusiastic crowd and an exciting circuit. Good events boost TV viewing figures and increase the value of broadcast and trackside sponsorship rights. Good events don’t happen on Tilke-dromes in countries with no interest (historical or current) in F1. Good events require that promoters get a return that allows them to invest in the circuit and facilities.
It all seems short-sighted to me.
Barry Randall is correct in arguing that F1 needs a successful race in the USA. Road racing was very popular in the USA in the 1960s and 70s and has massive potential popularity today. Manufacturers such as Mercedes or Renault/Infiniti need a good USA race to justify their spending, and F1 needs Mercedes and Renault/Infiniti.
Thought about Bernie and track fees: It’s not so short sighted. He’s created a glut of tracks who might want to bid, they have sunk costs to try to recover also, and in effect helping his playing one off against the other to maintain otherwise unsustainable fees.
AFAIK that revenue hits his bottom line, so in a nutshell you have his trick to keep CVC and those investors in the clover.
In another thread I thought 60:10:30 split might be workable, Teams:Reserve to develop eg. affordable venues: and 30% to the “owners”.
I think that if that’s taken of the gross overall, no tricks, it’s not insulting to teams, and taking 10% for venue development (maybe bring back some classic oldies) could show enough benefit for the sport as a whole, teams would not feel hard done by. (Maybe use some of that to help new wannabes who are not playboy’s toys)**
My point being, that there is nobody on the commercial side spending anything to benefit the sport in the longer term, they’re just bleeding it, and anything the FIA gets, which is a pittance now, but it was considered a big deal of cash at the time, is not going to bolster Bernie’s cabal so they can simply profit more.
In the middle, there’s now next to nothing for tracks or real promoters, and it would be cool in my book to set aside a bit to bolster them, maybe underwrite some regeneration of lost venues. I think it’s obvious that local governments are in no position to keep subsidising the majority of tracks, despite a small number of city states still can make sense out of the numbers. When a race works so well as Melbourne or Singapore, that really is at the more successful end, and places like Spa, Hockenheim, Nurburgring, they struggle to work up justification. It’s still a far better deal than hosting the Olympics, or any other sport, but persuading politicians when local amenities and social services are being cut is going to be increasingly hard. Hence I’d set aside 10% for helping some of them, because it helps the overall sport.
** rpaco, in the other discussion, pointed out there are some moves which do not look supportive of the overall scene, that political machinations may be denuding vital parts of the sport of cash and influence. I found that very worrying, more consistent with bleeding it all dry commercially, and quite depressing to learn. Forget which discussion, but recent day or so, so easy to find.
I have some experience of importing high-value items into Russia. All I can say to the F1 teams is, good luck with that…
Only two guys I know made a decent bit importing to Russia, one sold super cheap kitchens, the other flock wallpaper out of Manchester that was no longer fashionable here. Two lovely rogues you’d have to meet to appreciate. The Russian F1 fan is still elusive, and what I hear is that doing business there is as tricky and shady as it was when I’d visit in the 90s. They seem to have only institutionalized the mafia more efficiently. The flick До свидания лето (Goodbye [to the] Summer) and all those melancholy laments seem to me somehow cautionary, predictive tales now. On another tangent, it’s important to stop any hint of F1 races being a cake icing for counties who want to distract from unhappy undercurrents of history or their current politics. Okay, that’s truly hard to argue conclusively, but race meets were more “organic” from the grass roots, and having everything given or taken away by pushy Mayors or city legislatures I think is the opposite way round to what would excite us again.
What is the business case – on either side – for a race in Thailand?
A night race in Thailand. Please spare us the idea.
Joe – how much of the “failure” of the sport in the US is due to the poor marketing of the sport there? Or the patchy YV coverage? Or the Indy tyre debacle? Perhaps it would work if it were done properly.
If the simulations of the Texas track are to be believed, the track could produce an interesting race. This is what F1 desperately needs in the US, particularly given its the 2nd last race. A snorefest would be a PR disaster.
A night race in Hong Kong would be a more credible and fantastic idea!
Bernie has LUSTED for a New York based race since forever. He is merely playing hardball with characters who grew up playing even harder hard ball. The money will come and there will be a New York-New Jersey race. But it will come down to the wire.