Felipe Massa will stay at Ferrari for the 2013 season after signing a one-year extension to his current contract. This is not unexpected news. I am not one of those who think that Sebastian Vettel will go to Ferrari alongside Fernando Alonso. Such a move makes no sense at all for anyone involved, but I can see a pre-contract being a useful bargaining tool for Vettel if he wants a better deal with Red Bull. I remain of the belief that Ferrari will sign Mark Webber for 2014.
So why didn’t Ferrari sign up Webber for 2013, when he was available earlier this year? Trying to put a Vettel-sized amount of pressure on Fernando Alonso?
No because webber was in the running for the world championship at he time and HAD to agree to stay with Red Bull again.
So how about BOTH Red Bull drivers moving to Ferrari in 2014 – and maybe Alonzo to Red Bull… Alongside Kimi… maybe…
I think that’s very good news, very logic news…Let’s hope Felipe finally got the chance to leave Ferrari in 2014 feeling proud and not diminished by a poor performance on his way out.
Reading between the lines I suspect Vettel has agreements signed with both Red Bull and Ferrari covering Red Bull performing badly and Ferrari performing so well that it makes sense to move over. How likely is it that this actually occurs? Not very but it helps his management pressure Red Bull and helps Ferrari management pressure Alonso.
I am one who think Ferrari want competent filler 2nd drivers until they know how Kubica fares. I wonder if Kubica not being up to it and pressure to get an ‘Italian’ in the team would then drive them to Di Resta?
Forget Kubica, his hand does not work well enough for the F1 steering wheel, though no doubt one could be specially built which he could use. But he has not got the edge any more and there is too much talent about for not enough seats.
The only thing that makes much sense to me is that Vettel has a contract to race for the winner of the 2013 season out of Red Bull and Ferrari, leaving both free to say “He’s racing for us, no doubt about it”..
Di restas not italian despite his name but i get your point
Kimi for Red Bull in 2014 then?
Mark will be 37 by then, the same age at which Schumi got axed ar Ferrari foe being too old,. IMHO he will see out his carreer at RBR. Great news about Massa, who always got a bit underestimated because of his schoolboy looks.
But will Webber be too old as a No.2
Mario was 38 when he won his championship not forgetting Fangio of course who was in his 40′s when winning championships
I wonder if Felipe will have another atrocious start to the season until Ferrari start publicly offering around his seat…
Joe, what are your thoughts on Vettel ever going to Mercedes – would they hold any emotional lure being German, or does it simply boil down to each party looking for the most competitive package?
I continue to hold out the remote hope that Kubica with an 80% functional right arm gets a shot after some Pirelli testing. Alonso & Kubica at Ferrari, Kubica at McLaren – what could have been. Bring back testing to keep these guys out of other series, we was robbed!!!
Good for massa……Joe is it true Nico Hulkenburg has signed a contract with Sauber..
Didnt you also say that Hamilton wouldnt go to Mercedes?
It remains to be seen what happens in 2014.
I simply try to provide guidance as best I can. It is not logical for a driver to commit career suicide, but some so. We cannot double guess people who have lost the plot.
Joe – I think most readers would prefer you to speak your mind at the risk of being wrong, given its usually supported with reason, than to face a boring blog. As they say in America, “Haters gonna hate”.
Joe,
Any opinion on whether Hamiltons move was motivated by sheer money or the ‘need for change’ to be his own man as Damon Hill theorized?
Or pure Ego as I theorize?
I think he is a lost soul and has been manipulated.
That’s why I like reading this blog. No-BS insight!
I agree, I said at the time that the only logical option was to stay at McLaren and I still believe that. What he has done is illogical. Agents need to be interviewed and held to account in the media.
The only thing that would change my mind on this is if Adrian Newey went to Merc, but then he would need two years from scratch to design and debug a winning car.
Don’t be too sad for the ‘lost soul’ – one he will make shedloads of money and two perhaps the MB committee will finally build a better car for either next year or 2014
A good point re Lewis losing the plot; if there is any truth in the Vettel to Ferrari rumours then surely Lewis’s “people” should have been moving heaven and earth to get him in a Red Bull for 2014, and so get him a one year deal for 2013 pretty much anywhere, rather than a multi-year deal at Merc?
Or to look at it from the opposite angle (and if we assume that the aforesaid “people” are well connected enough to find out what’s really going on) does the Lewis to Merc deal effectively de-bunk the Vettel to Ferrari rumours?
Dude, this isn’t the Joe Saward predicts the future blog, just the Joe Saward blog. Honestly the amount of people that read this blog and are rude and just dickheads in general is astonishing.
Lewis better hope Ross hands him another ‘Brawn’ complete with special Gizmo or he’ll have to sell a hell of alot of undies and perfume Beckham style to be a happy man. Joe’s response is bang on, not too many racers would be happy in an uncompetetive car having to sell schlock merchandise to round out their career.
Big gamble from a guy who needs to be told it’s not appropriate to post Telemetry on the internet.
With Mercedes having a deal with Monster drinks, expect to see Lewis Hamilton in a drifting video with Ken Block sometime in May next year (at a guess)
Stunning insight, there. You should write for a Formula One publication of some kind. It’s original, thought provoking analysis like this, that needs to be heard. Maybe you should start a blog or even better a personal journal that only you will ever see or read or know about. Yeah, you go do that.
Joe,
Let’s stipulate that Alonso remains the most complete driver on the F1 grid. If Alonso doesn’t win this year and Ferrari fails to provide him with a championship-winning car in 2013, might neither Alonso nor Vettel want to be in a Ferrari in 2014? Refresh my memory: through what year is Alonso currently signed to Ferrari?
Alonso’s tenure at Ferrari is starting to look a lot like those of Prost and Mansell and neither of them lasted a third year, never mind four or five.
Oh, and thanks for enduring Korea for all of us. Looking forward to reading about your adventures.
Joe, I wholeheartedly agree – Alonso’s only area of real fragility is in his perceived ability to deal with a truly competitive team-mate. Whereas Mark Webber has demonstrated really well an ability to drive for the team at his own personal expense.
Fully agree – webber until his retirement in 2015-2016 – then Vettel comes in 2016 as Alonsos contract has closed out (unless alonso wins one or more championships by then in which case I think he’ll stay around a lot longer).
By 2016 though vettel will likely be closing in on schumachers championship records and will be happy to have his time in scarlet even if it’s not in the most dominant team.
I think Vettel will have a Newey related clause in his contract. If Newey retires or moves on – Seb would as well.
Great! It is unfortunate (for this fan) that Ferrari would not let Felipe take Alonso in Korea… but I totally understand the reasoning behind it. Question is… if Felipe and Alonso found themselves in a similar circumstance earlier in the season (Felipe being faster than Alonso) would Ferrari have allowed the overtake?
No way would Ferrari allow Vettel in the Scuderia for 2014. He would put far too much pressure on Alonso. I imagine RBR prefers to keep Seb, especially after he wins WDC #3 this year.
I was hoping Massa would acknowledge the order to back off… and then add, “FERNANDO is NOT faster than ME”
Joe,
On the Mark Webber issue, why didn’t Ferrari move to sign him on for 2013?? It’s been 2 years that both Mark and Felipe Massa have been signing 1 year extensions with their respective teams with Massa having underperformed in each of them. Why didn’t Ferrari sign Webber from 2012 onwards? And why is his potential signing being postponed every year? He’s not getting any younger… It must be that Webber is prefering to stay at Red Bull…
Mark was deciding to join Ferrari 2014, i reckon RBR forced his hand to sign again with them and get it done early.
He was deciding on 2013. However if Ferrari wants him that much they would immediately asked about 2014
Can a driver get out of a “pre-contract” easily? Would love to read the codicils to that type of document.
I agree, Mark W heads to Ferrari unless the whole world goes crazy.
Is it safe to assume that Robert K is out of the picture?
Joe, totally agree with your call on the 2014 ferrari, doesnt make sense to destabilize the house.
Btw, do you think that Lewis has been completely sidelined by McLaren after he has signed with merc? Ted Kravitz mentioned that they were not concerned that Lewis was late for a press conference, and started without him. Also I saw reports that he had booked a bowling alley and wanted to bring his mechanics out, but they went for a run with JB instead. Will this affect McLaren’s shot at 2nd in the constructors?
I think Ferrari did sign Webber a few months ago…
I actually agree with you on this one Joe.
Joe, you said Hamilton to Mercedes made no sense, yet he still moved. Sometimes is better to be based on evidence and not on “sense”
On which case there is no point in having experienced F1 journalists. We can leave it all to stay at home bloggers with no idea about anything.
LOL
It does not make sense, yes he moved, but it was a wrong move for the wrong motives.
Next year’s Merc is an unknown quantity, so to him is the team he will go to, it is Schumacher/Rosberg oriented and he will be the new boy.
There was no evidence, he had two deals, staying at Mclaren woudl make sense he went other way, nothing wrong with what Joe said at all.
not that I know anything, but I agree with you on the basis of simple logic. Webber to partner up with Alonso makes a lot more sense from every angle, Ferrari know that they are not wining because of their car not for lack of a driver capable of bringing the title to the team, so why upset the balance of the team bringing in another #1…makes on sense.
Only logic i can see in it is Ferrari believe these two drivers are a step above, so then they wouldn’t need the best car as long as it is close to being the best… But that isn’t the type of thinking that normally prevails on F1.
About Webber at Ferrari in 2014, won’t he be like 38 by then?
I thought he wanted to retire in a couple years at Red Bull.
I often wonder at the rationale (or lack thereof) behind some of the speculation out there. “Hamilton’s going to Ferrari!” “Vettell is going to Ferrari!” – is this simply because people like Driver X and Team Y and are projecting their heart’s desires?
I for one would love Webber at Ferrari.
It seems to me that many of the grid are or think they are or being positioned to be heading to Ferrari so why not SV……
Because he is winning where he is
So was Michael in 1995.
Vettel is not leaving Adrian Newey.
This would likely entail Vettel bringing Adrian Newey and others with him to Ferrari if he was to follow in the Schumacher mould.
I for one am happy for Massa, The last few races in particular he’s been back to his old ways. He is everything that the Ferrari team ask of him: a loyal and dedicated NUMBER TWO driver for the Ferrari TEAM.
He’s done really well to pull himself back up from such a terrifying accident and I often wonder how different life would have been for him had he managed to beat Lewis to the championship in ’08
Credit also needs to be given to the Ferrari team as well, they have been patient and loyal to Massa as well while he has been recovering and rebuilding from the accident, although at times their frustrations have shown through as well.
Massa has saved his job over the last couple of races, do you really think Webber is the prime candidate for Ferrari in 2014? What if Hulkenberg goes to Sauber next year and does well? I think he has put Di Resta in the shade lately. I wouldnt be surprised to see Webber retire after 2013.
Hi Joe,
I’m sure you’ve explained this previously, but what are your thoughts on why Webber turned down the Ferrari seat for ’13 but will take it in ’14? I’m a Webber supporter but I don’t see the difference between him playing 2nd fiddle to Vettel or Alonso. Or is it a case that there wasn’t a firm offer for next year?
At the time of that offer Webber was Red Bulls leading driver and the one doing the best job of securing points in a less than stellar red bull. His decision to decline Ferrari was entirely based on mark feeling he had a shot in 2012 and not wanting to upset the apple cart.
Given that Massa appears to rediscoverd his mojo, I’m fascinated by your prediction of Webber for the 2014 Ferrari seat. I’m curious as to whether you feel this is a done deal regeardless of Fellipe’s performance next year, and if so it leaves me a bit confused as to Ferrari’s logic on this. Any elaboration you can provide on this would be greatly appreciated.
Yes, Vettel to Ferrari with Alonso make no sense for Alonso, Vettell, or Ferrari’s bank balance. I believe that Ferrari wanted Webber for 2013, but Webber said let me have one more shot at Seb because i wanna shove it to RB soooo badly!!!
Joe, a few sources say that Massa was making 10M euros this year. Do you think that he’s gotten that 1 year extension with a smaller amount for his pay-cheque?
Probably
Pretty pleased about that. Head injuries seem to be still a absolute unknown. But I really sense PM got a real lot of support end of season, even if he was told, well, might not work out, that would free a lot of pressure. Just goodwill. I reckon he thrives on it. What I mean is I am not so certain that by leaving the seat open until late, that anything worse was done, or more pressure applied. Maybe a safety release valve, even, that he might be freed end of year.
Nope, I don’t make a whole lot of sense. But I do think Philipe was well looked after. Happy at that idea. I feel he’s been overlooked too long “yeah, well, he had a blow to the head”, in a kind of dismissive way. I absolutely want him to come back, would speak volumes for him, and more for the medical safety backup. Without a shadow, good luck to him!
Felipe…
…baby, I bring you the white visor.
Doh!, sorry, and sorry Felipe.
I agree that Vettel to Ferrari makes no sense at all. However, if Webber is who they want, why not next year? He was available after all, so if they wanted him and he wanted to go there, why delay it by a year?
As for Vettel, him to Ferrari would only make sense if Alonso is considering retirement within a year or two of 2014 and Ferrari are worried about missing out on capturing him if they wait, I’d assume Mclaren would be very interested, and you couldn’t rule out Mercedes fancying themselves a driver line up inspired by their technical director recruiting process…
Because he signed for red bull
Would seem a bit silly for Seb to lock himself off like this, when if he waited he could easily spark a 4 way bidding war by all the top teams…
Joe, I hope you are right about Webber.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see BOTH Red Bull drivers go to Ferrari in 2014… with Alonzo moving to Red Bull…
I would not be surprised to see BOTH Red Bull drivers move to Ferrari in 2014… with Alonzo moving across to Red Bull…
Why?
It was just a wry observation… If the Vettel rumours have any validity, and the only stumbling block is Alonzo, and your Webber thoughts are also very logical… so… maybe Alonzo will want out of Ferrari… after three years without the championship, and without a back up to shield him from Vettel et al…
As we now seem to be forecasting driver movements way into the future, far beyond what even they can see as logical, I thought it would be interesting to see what each could do in the other’s car… though, obviously, nobody can know what the 2014 cars will be like
A Mark Webber migration to Maranello does seem much more plausible than one by Vettel, doesn’t it.
A couple of readers appear to have missed Joe’s point about Webber.
At the time his negotiations were taking place, he actually had a good shot at the championship. He’d had a string of 4ths and the car seemed to be on the pace. Obviously Mark thought this was his best chance of getting full support from the team for the year, compared to previous seasons. He must have thought that if it was announced he was moving to Ferrari, that RBR would pull support for the 2012 season and shift to Vettel. Perhaps just going for wins. By signing an extension, it sent the right signal to management.
However, something seems to have happened – either to Mark’s confidence, or to the machinery he was given by the team, that has led to a string of disappointing results and enabled his teammate to once again jump ahead. (*Tin foil hat on*) Perhaps there is a contractural clause in Vettel’s agreement that gives him priority on new equipment? Its difficult to explain Mark’s turnaround in form.
As for his future, I think DC’s career is a good guide. He is still heavily involved with RB promotions. Its hard to point to other former drivers who are as actively supported. Perhaps Fisi in the 458 program. So my guess is that Mark sees he has another 3-4 years left in him, then will be some sort of ambassador. After all, his negotiations are with RB HQ, not RBR.
My view is that while RBR car still had some issues early in the season MW could work around those problems and adapt more efficiently than SV, based on his experience, feeling etc. As the car got better and obviously more to the liking of SV, we could seep swing in performance between the drivers. It is blatantly undisputed the support given to SV by RBR in detriment of MW …
Just read in some chinese website that Ma Qinghua has signed a race driver contract with HRT for 2013. So I presume Narain Karthikeyan is on the way out.
Why would Vettel leave the team that has been the fastest, and most consistent over the last 3-4 seasons? He doesn’t need to do a Lewis and build a team around him (Mercedes), as he’s already done that with Red Bull.
He’s clearly very happy being #1 at RB so why would he want to deputise Alonso? And don’t for a second think Alonso would allow Vettel in a Ferrari if there wasn’t a strictly defined #1 & #2!
Webber to Ferrari makes more sense as he’s a #2 at RB and would be #2 at Ferrari but could then say he’s driven for Ferrari (ala Fisi).
It was a slow news day on Monday and BBC decided they had to write something, so effectively published rumour as fact, quel surprise…
I don’t see Vettel going to Ferrari either. If Alonso has the veto that many say he does, I don’t understand why he would allow Vettel into his team. He’d have been better off with Hamilton, who essentially seems to have gone round the twist.
I’m curious, given that Webber will be 37 in 2014, what makes you think he will switch to Ferrari? Or, more accurately, why do you think Ferrari would want such an old driver who won’t have much longer left in the sport? He’s a good driver but he’d hardly be an investment in the future.
it doesn’t make sense for Seb to go to Ferrari, but that doesn’t mean he wont. Maybe Ferrari are getting a bit bored of not winning the constructors championship and think that having two great drivers will solve that problem. Perhaps Fernando has softened a bit about having a quick team mate, maybe he has no choice, Luca did say the other day that he will give Fernando a team mate who doesn’t bother him when he wins the championship for them, but then he did say something about not wanting two roosters in the hen house as well, Mr Montezemelo I suppose says whatever he wants.
Perhaps Vettel is thinking about his place in history, winning multiple championships at one team is one thing, but “doing a Schumacher” and doing it at Ferrari as well is another. The adoring tifosi and bumper pay cheques are another draw i would have thought. It seems strange that he would want to jump out of a Newey designed rocket ship, but maybe Seb knows something about Adrian’s future plans that we don’t.
True or false, this rumour isn’t going away.
P.S, we all thought that Schumacher had enough power to veto Kimi’s arrival at Ferrari didn’t we?
I did not.
ok Joe, but the rest of us did!
Someone must be arriving at Ferrari in 2014 who is a better bet than Perez, otherwise they wouldn’t have let Perez go. I can’t see that they would prefer a 37 year old Webber to Perez, so logically it might well be Vettel.
From Ferrari’s point of view, if they have two of the best three drivers and the other one is in a car that can’t win, then they have a good shot at beating the two cars that can win. This may be their best route to winning a world title at the moment.
From Vettel’s point of view, he may believe that he can beat Alonso, and he may be fed up of people like Jackie Stewart saying he is a multiple WDC only because of Adrian Newey. Plus he may want more money.
From Alonso’s point of view, he may be confident that he can beat Vettel, and in any case he may feel he has a better chance of beating Vettel if Vettel is in a Ferrari than if he is in a Red Bull.
Joe, was Webber the only driver to turn down Ferrari this year or were other drivers offered contracts? I think maybe one of the Force India drivers wouldve been faster and more consistent than Massa. They havent made the mistakes that the Sauber drivers have either.
Also, with rumors flying around about Hulk going to Sauber I’m scratching my head trying to understand why, as this seems a sideways step (no disrespect to either team). Is this because a) He’s concerned about Force India’s future b) Ferrari often put future prospects at Sauber c) He wasnt going to get another Force India contract.
I would so love to see Hamilton v Vettel in the same team while they are in their prime (prob not ever going to happen). Both seem extremely stroppy when they are beaten by their team mates (more so than other drivers) so it would make fantastic viewing, not to mention they are the 2 quickest guys out there. I wonder if Bernie feels the same way…
All very interesting but Luca di Montezemolo doesnt seem to go a bundle on two “NO 1″s and Fernando was rather gushing in his delight that Felipe was staying so why, if Massa has a 2013 like his end to 2012 would Ferrari change anything. I think Alonso has more say in who his team mate is than is disclosed and I cant see Vettel there and the Webber story still doesnt fit with me. If 2013 is fantatsic for Webber, ie he beats Vettel, then that would be a good time to quit, and if it isnt then that might be a good time to quit. Old age hits us all
I don’t get all this talk of Webber as good no. 2? He has his own mind and does his own race……he’s just mostly behind Seb but not because he’s told to be unlike Massa. So I don’t see Ferrari banging on his door just to be Alonso’s no.2 but more likely as he is a solid driver that gets points for the contructors championship (by definition is a no.2 but not Alonso’s lap dog as some comments seem to suggest…)
Vettel to Ferrari while Alonso is there….why not neither have ever blocked a driver partnering them and Alonso only left McLaren as he couldn’t handle the atmosphere working with Lewis and favouritism issues, not his speed or competition. But i agree with joe though that it won’t happen. I do think Seb would like to leave RBR though as JS keeps mentioning he won’t be great till he does and Seb so wants to be ‘great’…..what only 2wdc almost 3 – how many to be great these days?
Lewis’s move was expected (by me) for awhile, there just hasn’t been anywhere to go. The move to merc is in desparation – a bit like moving into mates bedsit to get out your parents 5 bed mansion with a pool just because you can’t live with them anymore.
Jo how much of driver movements is controlled or infulenced by Bernie?
You know so much.
Thanks …… Not sure it was a compliment
Just my thoughts. I clearly don’t know or pretend to know a much as seasoned f1 journo.