Juan Pablo Montoya has not been doing much winning in recent years in the United States. His NASCAR adventures have netted just two wins in the 217 NASCAR Sprint Cup races he has competed in since leaving F1. He also won one event in the Nationwide Series back in 2007. Last weekend at Daytona Juan Pablo and his Ganassi team-mates Scott Pruett, Memo Rojas and Charlie Kimball took victory in the annual Daytona 24 Hours, at the wheel of a Riley-BMW sports car. It was Montoya’s third victory in the sports car classic, following up on wins with Ganassi in 2007 and 2008 in a Riley-Lexus. Pruett’s win was his fifth, which means that he equals the all-time record for Daytona 24 Hours victories, which is held by Hurley Haywood. Behind them are four four-time winners (Pedro RodrÃguez, Bob Wollek, Peter Gregg and Rolf Stommelen), while Montoya and Rojas join three-time winners Brian Redman, Andy Wallace, Butch Leitzinger and Derek Bell.
It was Montoya’s first victory since winning the NASCAR Sprint Cup race at New Hampshire in 2010.
Funny to think JPM went to NASCAR because he “had more chance of winning”. Maybe more chance but not many results.
It was actually Watkins Glen, in New York, where JPM won his second NASCAR Sprint Cup victory. He has yet to win a Cup race on an oval, and given that out of 36 races a year only two include left and right turns, He needs to get the oval win monkey off his back. 2012 was his worst year yet in Cup racing. It would help if Chip Ganassi would put more resources into his NASCAR teams rather than what seems to be his priority, IndyCar. It was a good race to watch today, and the last couple hours were very exciting, however not as close a finish as last year.
Joe, you mean his first win since Watkins Glen, NY in 2010. He finished 16th and 34th at the two Loudon, NH races that year. All three of Montoya’s wins have come on road courses (Watkins Glen, Sonoma and the Busch/Nationwide race in Mexico city)
I may have misread it!
Great to hear Montoya’s doing well. I always liked JPM’s style, and on his day he was unstoppable. His few errors seemed always to involve colliding with stationary objects, once I think, in the pitlane.
He never found his way into Ron D’s heart. I seem to recall Turkey 2005 [?] when he spun out on the last corner in quali, and a furious Ron Dennis told ITV, “He only had one corner to go, just one corner!”
His wife was the most glamorous of all the F1 wives, probably still is……..
when he spun out on the last corner in quali, and a furious Ron Dennis told ITV,
>> That was Hockenheim, and he drove through the field to finish 2nd in the race http://bit.ly/WxoL2n.
Rather than steaming on his drivers, if Ron had done his job properly, and given his drivers reliable cars in 2005, life would have been better at McLaren in the years to come. Seeing Kimi and JPM retire from race lead due to mechanical failures hurt McLaren team and its fans than occasional, driver errors.
Then JPM, losing the rear on the final corner was again not as bad as Kimi repeatedly overdriving his car into gravel trap @ Dunlop Chicane during the Nürburgring GP. Those off track excursion destroyed his tyres and finally his race on the last lap.
But then Ron always loved Kimi better than JPM, so JPM’s fate was pretty much sealed from the get go.
Hard as I may try, I can’t fault Ron for loving Kimi and not Montoya !
btw, 2005 german gp was at Nurburgring, so where does Hockenheim come in? My memory, not always reliable, says Turkey, maybe something similar happened at Hock following year?
Those were the days when there were two races in Germany (Nurburgring- European GP and Hockenheim – German GP) and two in Italy (Imola, Monza) Check the link provided in my post and you will know.
Check the web link in the first post for the race results.
Kimi twice went off the track at the Dunlop chicane and destroyed his own tyres (and hence the race) at nurburgring. Not to mention Brazilian GP when he couldn’t hold his nerve, when his engineer told him Alonso’s provisional pole times.
Kimi’s mistakes ( given that he was in title hunt) in 2005 were more cardinal than the Colombian. Colombian’s mistake was mysterious injury that resulted in two race absence ( which again mysteriously coincided with the birth of his first born). That absence meant, he was out of title hunt and had to play second fiddle to Kimi for rest of the season and that he did by bringing the McLaren car in maximum possible points, whenever Kimi’s car had DNF.
The way Ron conducted 2006 season was more telling about what Ron Dennis and McLaren can do (shoot themselves in their own foot). Starting race one in Bahrain, JPM’s car had engine mapping issues, which meant he was running at 10 km/h slower for the first three races. McLaren chose not to change his engine and take penalty, but let him run with slower car.
In Imola he was not given car for all the free practices and the first touch he had was in Q1 session. He still went on to take the car on to podium.
2006 was first year when the current Q1-Q2-Q3 format of qualifying was introduced and McLaren (mysteriously) did rookie errors to release their drivers in traffic and botching lap times.
It was quite obvious that Macca was mere using 2006 season as place holder to make way for their 2005 signing of reigning F1 champion (and the sponsors that were to follow him).
The way McLaren treated their drivers who missed the constructors (and drivers) title in 2005 was to be honest very unprofessional.
It’s one thing when backmarker teams are not able to give their drivers enough laps in free practice, but when team like McLaren does that, there is something not’s add up.
Anyways I’m referring to 2005-06 season, here people struggle to remember what happened in the last race.
Oh Connie, Connie, Connie – mmmmm, the most gorgeous WAG ever – there you go, an F1 human-interest story!
(Close call with DC’s missus though)
David Coulthard in his book ‘It is was it is’, writes non too kindly about JPM and never says why. Anybody got any ideas why?
He was probably quicker than DC.
DC was thrown out of McLaren to make way for JPM. Not to mention JPM (and Nick Heidfeld) drove for Helmut Marko is Junior formulae. At some point in 2006 there were talks of JPM driving for RedBull or Renault ( from the 2007 season). I guess both Christian Horner ( who was promoting Liuzzi who drove for him in F3000) and Flavio Briatore ( who wanted the drivers to hire him as their manager) blocked the move ( and who says F1 is not infested with conflict of interests at all levels).
Thus there was more than once DC was in risk of losing his race seat because of the fan favorite Colombian. That maybe the reason of the bitterness.
Of course I have been a curious outsider for two decades that I have been following F1, so my views are just trying to connect the dots after the fact.
Montoya’s got a lousy car, thus no oval wins. In that regard, all racing is the same.
For that many years?
Yes. The only oval he’s come close on was at Indy, where he would have won the race but for a pit lane speeding penalty. He does well there, but Indy is really more like a road course with only four left hand turns, at least for NASCAR stock cars. The Earnhardt-Ganassi team is comparable to maybe Force India F-1 (albeit without the financial problems of it’s owner) as far as where they stack up in the hierarchy of their respective grids. Hendrick Racing, Richard Childress Racing, Rousch Fenway, are the big three in Sprint Cup, with Hendrick comparing to maybe McLaren in F-1. Penske got lucky with their driver. I think sometimes Earnhardt Ganassi are there just to pick up a check so they race in IndyCar and Grand-Am. Maybe they’re just spread too thin.
Dale Earnhardt Jr. went through a 143-race drought. Montoya’s 86-race streak isn’t the longest in Nascar, either. Finding a win in Nascar is not that easy if you are not with the right team and crew chief, and Montoya is not with the right team.
Dale himself, being no fool, doesn’t even drive an Earnhardt-Ganassi car. He drives for Hendrick.
It’s more complicated than that, but still …
Hey Joe,
What a race that was, stunning drive by Montoya. I remember watching Scott Pruett as a young, super fast, rising star in Trans Am driving the turbo-charged Mercure’s at MOSPORT and other venues, and the man he tied, Huerly Haywood is one of the all-time greats in North American sportscars. Extremely nice guy who I had the pleasure of meeting several times. Fond memories for sure, but shocking as I see Scott is now 52yrs old! Where does the time go???
Thanks for covering this, even just a bit.
My reaction to Montoya is always the same: What an incredible waste of talent! And what an obviously bad fit for McLaren. But then again, I have a lot of respect for him for doing what he seems to enjoy most instead of what pays best.
NASCAR can pay pretty well too, especially on the merchandising end. While NASCAR hasn’t been able to crack the Hispanic market with Montoya like they were hoping, JPM does have a strong fan base with Russians (believe it or not) who like the fact he didn’t back down to Michael Schumacher in F1.
Always was a JPM fan, but I just can’t quite get interested in NASCAR… I very well remember the Big Impression he made as a CART rookie in 1999 and his dominating win in the 2000 Indy 500. Those were fun times for me as a fan.
It pains me that JPM left F1 because I am a big fan of his. This is going to come across as an insult but I believe it’s the truth. He just didn’t like the starving F1 driver deal. It just is not in his DNA to workout and eat rabbit food every day.
He is much happier doing NASCAR circuit living in his Million $ RV with his wife and kids.
And nary a detracting comment above about JPM. Also a fan. I always feel F1 should have kept him at any cost, and his departure was a distinct loss. Great character to have, in my book. But I also recall that he had it up to the eyes with politics and infighting (as Natthulal and others detail) and I just don’t blame him. Just . . .still . . . he should have been winning in F1, not running with the pack in NASCAR. I think his departure was one of the more distinct reasons that ca. 2005 my love of F1 became seriously challenged.
he should have been winning in F1, not running with the pack in NASCAR. I think his departure was one of the more distinct reasons that ca. 2005 my love of F1 became seriously challenged.
>> +1. F1 hasn’t been seen after JPM’s departure for me. It’s ironic that the F1 paddock didn’t like JPM’s way of forcing the race position issue on the track, since the engineers were always unhappy to see him getting into wake of the car ahead and disturbing the aerodynamics (and hence impacting the lap times).
And after he left F1, FOM,FOTA, FIA actively doctored F1 for artificial overtaking, now we have traction controls banned, drivers forced to switch tyre compounds, tyres are made marginal (to spice up race), KERS and DRS assistance provided , so that the drivers can overtake on the track.
It’s typical of F1 to drive away simple solution ( driver with right attitude) and spend millions on artificial regulations, then cry aloud because they are not able to control their budgets and hence have to rely on drivers who can find personal sponsorship.
Pure disappointment.
The knock on JPM on ovals is that he spins up his tires way too much as soon as they begin to go off. He uses throttle input as a solution to a loose condition instead of fixing a poor set up situation. This is the reason why he does better at Indy as this track has less banking then other ovals and is less challenging as far as car set up. JPM missed out on the training ground that the lower form of oval racing gives the up and coming drivers before they even reach the Nationwide level – let alone CUP level. It may seem that driving one of these cars should be *easy* compared to highly technical F1 machinery – but not true. These are 800hp tire destroying machines that many drivers find that the handling changes by the minute as the fuel load goes down or another driver stuffs his nose under your butt to aero lift you in mid corner. JPM is a fine driver but he’s not the first ex F1 driver to find NASCAR difficult – that list is long.
Hi JV, I’m being dim I hope, but what is a “loose condition” respect to how you describe the conditions of JPM’s throttle misuse? Do you mean as tire grip lessons, he is applying throttle into over corrections due to lack of grip? – Im imagining with a banked radius, life is very complicated because of the change of steepness . . Or throttle into corrections from under-steer? Sorry, I genuinely have no idea at all about the necessary skills to drive a oval, or even if I didn’t just talk a load of rubbish confusing matters more just above, and would really appreciate it if you can put me out of my ignorance. Never thought about this before, and suddenly I realise watching the ovals might be a lot more interesting than my dull brain realized.
John – good questions. I’ve only been on an oval a few times (street set up) but the secret to these oval cars is the stagger that is built into the chassis. These cars are designed to constantly turn left – even on the straights. Unlike a road course car where you wait until the perfect point to turn into the apex of a corner – oval setup’s actually force you to physically hold the car from ‘self steering’ into the corner too soon. Throttle application early or late as you enter the corner determines where you exit along with unwinding the steering. As the tires begin to wear, (as soon as four laps on some tracks) the amount of slippage and which tires wear first (usually front right first) – determines your next course of action. Some teams correct for front right tire wear and center of gravity issues (fuel load going down) by creating a loose car (over steer) at the beginning of a run so that as the front right wears and looses grip (sliding) the driver can use the throttle to rotate the car into the turn. You’ll often hear NASCAR drivers talk about loose in – tight out. Unfortunately you also begin to prematurely wear the right rear trying to correct it this way if you do this too much. Many times the fix is an air pressure change or by adding/subtracting weight (jacking a plate up/down onto the springs creating a higher/lower spring weight) or a pre-race decision to alter camber. Even the amount of tape (like one extra strip an inch wide) on the front rad opening at 200mph can alter the down force to the point where it’s not a question of *if* your going to crash – but which corner. Drivers like Jimmy Johnson are able to identify what the car is doing and which direction the changes should go and tell the team what they ‘want’. Other drivers are depending on an engineer not behind the seat to ‘fix’ the issue. Sometimes the savvy drivers are able to drive through an issue as they know the set up will ‘come to them’ in a few laps. Others haven’t a good experience base and attempt to ‘drive through’ poor handling using ‘skill’. It really is a team sport in NASCAR and not an area where ‘individualistic’ drivers do well unless they grew up driving sideways since they were kids. The difference between the all concrete 1 mile tracks with high banking such as Bristol and Dover compared to the super speedways like Daytona and Talladega (pavement) require totally different set ups and driving techniques.Then there are the flat (relative term) half mile ovals thrown in just to confuse you. That JPM is *still* in NASCAR (compared to other open wheel challengers who have come and gone) is a due to his natural driving ability – but that can only get you so far without team work. I’d love to see him move from Ganassi to Hendrick racing to see what would happen. Sorry for the long response.
JV,
Thanks for the detailed analysis. I started following Nascar only after JPM’s switch and understood the intricacies a bit, but lack of success for JPM resulted in me getting bored. That pitlane speed penalty for JPM at Allstate 400 was the last straw for me and since then I have just limited myself to checking the race results.
About JPM moving from Ganassi to Hendrick, that will again undermine the F1 story, where driver can’t win unless s/he is driving for a front runner team.
Thanks again for the readers digest version of challenges in stock car driving on ovals.
“Loose” = oversteer
“Tight” = understeer
On ovals a loose car is generaly considered a faster car then when it’s tight.
Your observation about the complexities of setups on ovals is astute.
You often hear NASCAR drivers complaining that the car is loose at the start of a corner and tight on the way out, or vice versa.
For the good times…….