Reports that Adrian Sutil has landed the remaining Force India drive are not yet confirmed, but from what I hear both Sutil and Jules Bianchi have been sent tickets to go to Australia by the team. Both have also probably signed contracts, but the question is not whether this is the case, but which one of the two contracts Force India representatives have decided to sign. The discussions seem to be dependent on talks going on about engine supplies in 2014, with Ferrari likely to offer a better deal if Bianchi is given the Force India drive this year. Sutil brings money (apparently) but it remains to be seen whether this adds up to more or less than Bianchi can save the team, with cash from sponsors and the engine deal.
The situation clearly flies in the face of the team’s claim that the decision is not based on money because it is illogical to go on keeping drivers hanging on if the decision is based on performance alone.
Joe, aside from the obvious question of the amount of folding he can bring in, why would they choose Sutil? They know him already yes, but also know that he’s merely ok as a driver and wouldn’t push Di Resta, so there’s little potential there. And that’s before of course you get to his ‘history’ which is hard to PR your way out of…
Nat
No idea.
Perhaps whoever is slightly slower brings the better deal and they are waiting to know as much about their car as possible. If it a tight midfield and a midfield car then a slightly better driver would be better WCC wise (hence more money) than a half mill or so now. but then why throw a few years of that mill or it looks like 2012 was a one off and you can’t get much further with a slightly better driver.
He might still be faster than Bianchi, he pretty much matched Di Resta in 2011. If it’s a difficult decision to put Bianchi in despite the Ferrari factor, it isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of his prospects on the track.
Sutil beat his teammate in 2010, and beat di resta comprehensively in 2011. Di Rest was beaten in 2012 by his new teammate. Di resta is mediocre at best. Personally I dont know why Force India stick with him.
Exactly. I wonder what all these Sutil bashers have been watching actually! If he’s mediocre, then pretty much 90% of the grid is mediocre.
With you – roll di Resta (he can be their Sunday driver); Sutil to replace him with the money he brings along with Bianchi for the engine deal with Ferrari.
I can’t see Di Resta being thrilled at the situation either.
I imagine having a teammate with limited testing and no certainty is the best news di resta has had in months.
say they sign sutil and bianchi and leave di resta out?
I wouldn’t think this warrants a response…
Now that would make a lot of sense given di restas form over the last 2 seasons.
That would certainly be the most sensible thing.
Its hard to take what goes on with FI seriously. Owners who seem to be continually in the news for all the wrong reasons, sponsors who are just part of the shaky financial empires of the owners. One wonders just how these shell games can continue to go on, but they do. Either someone is secretly bankrolling this team, legally or otherwise, over there’s a storm coming for I think.
F1 has always been full of teams like this (remember Flavio?). Its a rich man’s plaything for a lot of teams. To me it adds a lot of colour to the patchwork quilt that is F1.
Flavio was an employee at Benetton/Renault.
Any chance of Sutil as the main second driver, with Bianchi slotting in from time to time?
Joe, How about both, Sutil where he can go, and Bianchi where he can’t due to criminal convictions?
How many times has it been stated by Sutil and his management that there are no restrictions on his travel?
Have you checked whether this is actually true?
No I haven’t. But, if the driver and his manager say something regarding a topic as serious as this, one would believe that they’re not mad and won’t lie about it. Did the original commenter check if it was actually true that Sutil (not anybody random in general) CAN’T go to certain places due to criminal convictions? “Can’t” and “might not” are not the same.
Ritesh,
I don’t know about rest of the venues on the calendar, but I’m not sure whether his old conviction will gain him entry for the USGP. You might like to read the story of a Canadian national whose trip to this year’s Superbowl got thwarted due to a 32-year-old offense. http://bit.ly/TyYOmc
I’m not sure either. But then, you could be denied entry into the US for no reason at all if you were SOL and were at the mercy of a coffee deprived officer who was in a bad mood. Its a lottery at best.
Joe, the “rumour” is that Bianchi is lacking speed as well as a Sutil sized budget, is the Ferrari link his cause for hope ? Are Ferrari just looking for another comfortable “slower than” driver to keep things sweet there, or do you think we will ever really see him put under pressure again by a competitive teammate ? Will the Tifosi really accept this as he keeps on failing to deliver ?
It depends where the story comes from, doesn’t it? I have seen sign of Bianchi lacking speed.
Bianchi looked slow in the car a few times, it must be said alright. Do you think that he is overrated or was he just nervous when the spotlight was on him?
He will be quicker once he has a chance to empty all the money out of the car that he was forced to bring, its quite heavy.
Joe, I don’t want to come off polemical but was there supposed to be an “s” at the end of the word sign or the word “no” between the words seen and sign in your response to the previous commenter? Obviously it would make a big difference one way or the other in your expression of opinion re: Jules form.
I have read it back and it all makes sense to me.
Grammar police ;-(
With the unknown financial situation of the team, is it conceivable that they may take both drivers? Unfortunately for Paul their is no such thing as a guaranteed seat, Glock is a case in point.
According to German press Mercedes are willing to chip in on Sutils behalf. They are said to be offering Force India a discount on the 2014 engine (which would repordetly still be more expensive than the Ferrari) but also include a gearbox and powertrain. Seems like just as Ferrari, Mercedes has an interest in having Force India as a customer to keep up the number of customer teams.
The ‘o’ in the team’s name should be an ‘a’.
(but I won’t hold the typo against you)
According to Nicolas Toth, Sutil has the seat, not Jules (or so the story goes).
Nicolas Toth? Is he related to the bloke who went to jail to stealing money from Renault as part of the Tyrrell engine deal in the 1980s?
LOL! Good reply Joe. George: We know you meant ‘Nicolas Todt’ but sometimes spelling or typing correctly does count…
I think he mean Jean Todt son Joe.
I know. It was what we call a joke.
Ah Gerard Toth! I wonder what became of him. Another in a long line of bullshit merchants, shame he signalled the end for the Renault f1 team. The real Renault f1 team that is…
He was a true inspiration for Briatore.
Hahaha, yep, spelling is difficult for a simple mind like me. Why don’t these guys have simple names, like Sawhard, right?
Just kidding, I’m glad you take the time to set us straight.
Nice to have you with us George. I remember you from the old days. Tyrrell, wasn’t it? Also I think Williams too.
Sorry Joe, but no. I have some famous namesakes (indeed one who used to be on the Tyrrell staff and one who was Amroc finder, stunt coordinator in Hollywood and a compatriot to Timothy Leary), but I am just a regular guy, standing on the public side of the fence for about 40 years. I’ll formally shake your hand, if the occasion arises.
That’s quite extraordinary. It is not a very common family name!
What about Sutil’s potential visa problems? Maybe lawyers are taking their time to understand the complexities of this issue and that is causing the delay?
He says that there are no problems and I guess we have to believe him. I have to say I don’t understand how he can get around Canada, but maybe he’s planning to enter the country in disguise, under an assumed name. Who knows?
How about Nicolas Toth? That name doesn’t seem to be taken at the moment …
Good one!
Japan is another one that has a fairly consistent track record of refusing entry to those with serious criminal convictions…
In exceptional circumstances, Canada can bypass the strict five year rehabilitation period normally needed for people with convictions, by the ministers’ delegate granting a temporary resident permit, as a fudge.
I guess ensuring the smooth running of the F1 show is deemed exceptional?
http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/australia-australie/visas/rehabilitation-readaptation.aspx?lang=eng&view=d
Does F1 want to be associated with such violence?
Perhaps by ensuring the visa is granted, the violence essentially gets swept under the carpet – it would be a far bigger story in mainstream press if a driver wasn’t allowed into a country to race, than a driver weaseling around visa restrictions, I’d have thought.
I remember Gachot racing in Canada after his incarceration. However this was 20 years ago. Are the visa regs significantly different now?
Didn’t F1 go to Bahrain last year?
Joe have you seen the incident on video in the club , apparently it was caught on video. If my memory is right a f1 journalist said he has seen it and it looked like a accident more than anything else.
I have not seen it, but the German judges did. I’d trust them more than an F1 journalist when it comes to the question of justice being done.
They certainly don’t give up power easily…
i wouldn’t be so quick to judge. the sentence was harsh not so much because of the incident itself, but because of his behavior afterwards. it appears to have indeed been an accident, but the judge criticized that he fled the scene, that his testimony didn’t seem sincere and that he didn’t show remorse. he was convicted for “gefährliche körperverletzung” which means he caused dangerous bodily harm. the law states that “gefährliche körperverletzung” applies when you cause bodily harm by means of a dangerous object or a weapon. so because sutil had a glas in his hand, he hurt lux with a dangerous object, irrelevant of whether or not he wanted to stab him with it. you do not have to intend to harm the person to be convicted. so this is more about the consequence of the action than the action itself. overall, the sentence took most german observers by surprise and had a lot to do with the fact that sutil was a public figure and a role model.
yes, sutil is a convicted felon, but i don’t think it is fair to paint this picture of a violent, dangerous person. also, i don’t see why his career has to be destroyed over the incident and why he doesn’t deserve a second chance. with all the shady characters that have populated f1 over the years, i really don’t see how anybody should be allowed to feel morally superior or how sutil could tarnish the image of the sport.
Grievous bodily harm is grievous bodily harm. Not accidental. The judge is the judge, not you, not me.
What’s never been explained (to my knowledge), is that the offense was committed in a Singapore night club, yet Sutil was not arrested in Singapore– In fact, he wasn’t even charged until Eric Lux apparently decided Sutil was a jerk for not flying to whatever city Lux was in to personally apologize. It was even implied in the press coverage, that had Sutil apologized in person, there would have been no charge.
All of this makes the entire case against Sutil seem more like persecution, rather than prosecution, and leaves me skeptical as to what really happened.
It happened in Shanghai.
As someone who holds both Canadian / British nationality, I can confirm that you will need a visa to enter Canada, if you have a criminal record.
We took a business trip from London to Montreal on to NYE, then back to London, May 2012. One of our parties had a criminal record, which was only 2 years old. He didn’t do jail time, as it was suspended for 6 months. It was for fraud, and we work in Finance / Banking. He had to apply for a visa for Canada and also one for America.
As I stood behind him at customs in Montreal, they just scanned his passport and waved him through. As for me, with my UK passport, they asked questions, given that it states I was born in Canada, and wanted to see my Canadian passport, which I haven’t renewed for the last 23 years. Anyway I got in. As for America, he was pulled out of the line up at customs, and taken to a room, we then though that was it, he would be on the return flight back to the UK. But all they did was ask him the same question, they asked at the embassy in London when they issued his visa.
Therefore this – his record is different than what Sutil has, which is from Germany, not the UK, which maybe could be the difference. But he will need a Visa. The $64,000 question is what happens if they don’t grant him the visa? Then what does the team do? It is not a foregone conclusion that he will get the visa, as it was pointed out to our work colleague when he applied and went for his interview at both the Canadian and American Embassies here in London. He has to go in person, can’t send in a rep / lawyer to get him his visa. They may or may not grant him an entry visa. It really is down to the person you see – interviews you, as most immigration lawyers will tell you.
If I was VJ I would take Sutil’s money on the understanding that visa issues are at his own risk, and it that goes wrong he can be replaced with no refund. MAybe that’s the fudge which is dragging this all out.
Being Canadian, I don’t think he would get in here and he shouldn’t, he’s a convicted felon. I would be really surprised if he were allowed in the US, they don’t let Canadians with criminal records in.
They still need the second seat filled AND the reserve driver, right? So why WOULDN’T both of them be going to Melbourne?
My bet is, the first one to make it to a pub on Lygon St wins the seat- Top Gear style.
Keeping under the speed limit of course. Heaven forbid that an F1 driver should be caught hooning!
While you are on the subject of Force India I see that Kingfisher has had their traffic rights withdrawn
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/awx_02_26_2013_p0-553056.xml
How likely would it be to have partial seasons for both? 9 races for Bianchi and 10 for Sutil? I assume its within regs to alternate drivers as the teams see fit?
I really don’t understand how people think Bianchi would be better as the 2nd driver. Throughout last year he hasn’t impressed in practice or in f2/3. He lacks speed and would be a backward step for Force India.
Regarding Sutil, he is faster than Di Resta, out qualified him and out raced him as well.!!
Sutil on his day is a very quick driver!! hopefully he will show the world he hasnt lost any speed, in fact wasn’t he faster than Di Resta in the last test.
Keeping both drivers waiting makes sense as a way to squeeze a better price out of Ferrari for a 2014 engine deal. If they seriously consider Sutil, why didn’t they do the seat fitting in time for the first test? The only other explanation I can think of is that Mallya and Sahara are in some way legally restricted on signing contracts or spending money.
It is appalling that they have both been given airplane tickets for Oz. Presumably this means FI could leave it to the almost first practice before being forced to make a decision.
Regardless of what they do and earn, this doesn’t feel a particularly great way to treat an employee.
Eh?.. how many drivers out there wouldn’t give their left testicle to have a free pass to the F1 paddock and a 50% chance of being on the grid?
Are they Kingfisher tickets? That would be harsh.
Yes, it would harsh their mellow.
Paul needs some support too…he has already got himself in the team and it would be kinda demoralizing knowing that FI fans would prefer bianchi and sutil over him…he did a pretty fair job for FI during the first half of 2012 until the hulk decided to suddenly just take off
but yeah he does need to prove himself this season or he might end him losing the seat next year..
between Sutil and Bianchi…it’s pretty confusing whom to choose…I guess FI shouldn’t select Sutil this year if they are sure that they will be needing Bianchi for the Job next year… anyway let’s see what happens
goodluck force india
force india should reveal the second driver quickly…it’s getting really annoying now
Wouldn’t DiResta have some sway with Mercedes engine supply? I thought that’s why was put in the Force India when they got their Mercedes lumps?
I always felt di Resta’s promotion from DTM to F1 was Norbert’s doing, now that Norbert is out, maybe di Resta lost some support as well?
Nicolas Todt, Bianchi’s manager has confirmed to media outlets that Force India will not put Bianchi in the seat. This means 99% that Sutil has the seat.
Yes, but one has to ask which media outlets. I prefer to wait for confirmation.
Joe – could the Bianchi question be linked, not by happenings at FI, but at Ferrari? After all, if Ferrari have their driver line up secured for 2014 (Alonso + insert driver here), then there is arguably no need to provide a seat for Bianchi to give him experience.
Because he needs racing experience in F1
Understood, but my meaning was that if there is no Ferrari seat coming up (ie if they’ve done a deal with Vettel, etc), then there is no need to waste money on blooding a junior driver.
I’ve worked it out.
Think logically here. No announcement from Force India and they insist it’s not about money. Rumours now of a German driver to take the seat. A German will now be available for work having retired from his current job.
The pope to drive for Force India!
Cynical, but could one hypothesis be that Force India want Sutil’s millions now, rather than Bianchi’s discount in 2014 when they might have run out of money to be on the grid in the first place and woul be under different ownership?
Joe, what’s your impression of Bianchi? Do Ferrari actually want to groom him to eventually hire him in the team? Just wondering because the Ferrari Driver Academy featured Perez as well, and then let him go / had him poached.
You cannot keep a driver if he is offered a McLaren and you do not have a drive available. I see Bianchi in much the same way as Massa 10 years or so ago.
Joe
They had a drive available with the underperforming Massa coming out of contract at season end.
Maybe Ferrari can buy Bianchi a race seat at Marrussia as there appears to be problems with Razia paying up on time. Marrussia need a new engine supplier to replace Cosworth at season’s end.
Perhaps Bianchi might do well to position himself one spot ahead in the passport queue if they’re going to travel together…
SUTIL CONFIRMED
Goodluck sutil & di resta
I have not received a press release as yet.
I take that back. It just arrived.
It had been posted on d SFI official facebook page about 40 minutes ago
Aswell as on d force india website
I guess it’s a good choice..there really didn’t seem like there was much to choose between the two…sutil’s experience vs bianchi’s surprise factor
What do you have to say about this decision?
I have written an article