You know that Formula 1 is having a quiet day when one sees stories like “Should Mercedes ban Hamilton’s dog?”, “Mercedes could quit Formula One over Ecclestone Corruption?” and “Newey crashes on formation lap in Lamborghini race”. The only story of any note that I have seen floating about is the suggestion that the FIA will start to freeze the engine regulations in about 2018. This makes sense for a couple of reasons: firstly it tells the car manufacturers that are waiting to see how the new F1 rules develop that it is time to get a move on unless they wnat to start at a disadvantage. On the other hand it also means that development costs of the new engines will be kept under control. After four years of R&D most engines will be at a fairly well-advanced level and finding extra power and new ideas is going to be costing the manufacturers involved more and more money, as the returns on that investment diminish. Engine formulae can lost for 10 years, but it is probably wiser in the current era to plan for a little less than that as technology in the automotive industry will be changing and F1 does not want to give left behind if a better idea than the hybrid engines of 2014 has come along. All things considered, the idea works well on all counts.
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joeblogsf1 
The Newey story is worth reporting in my opinion. I find it incredible that Red Bull allow its most valuable asset to race cars at the weekend when he’s so bad at it. It’s not like he’s just having small shunts. He’s been hospitalised twice (Goodwood in an E-Type, Snetterton in a Ginetta) and has also had a big smash at Le Mans in a GT-40 and now this. He was also very lucky to escape a massive accident at the Goodwood Revival last year when he had a massive tank slapper and almost spun back into the field. So news worthy in my view, Red Bull would be in deep trouble if he hurts himself badly enough to not be able to work.
The point is that it would be news if he actually hurt himself.
Don’t you find it amazing Red Bull allow him to race when he’s so accident prone? Most F1 teams don’t allow their most valuable assets (the drivers) to ride motorbikes for similar reasons don’t they?
Red Bull could always, with some difficulty hire themselves a Vettel replacement.
There is no replacement for Mr Newey, they know it and he knows it, they have no leverage.
I suspect there are more crossed fingers at Red Bull on the weekends off, than when there is an F1 race
Make no mistake, Adrian Newey is as good as he is portrayed. However, he is replaceable. Perhaps not by another individual ‘Adrian Newey’, but replaceable nonetheless.
“The graveyards of the world are full of indipensable men”
And I presume that part of Mr Newey’s Red Bull deal is that he gets to do the fun things that he likes, instead of being hemmed in by a restrictive contract?
Only a few years ago people were saying that about Ross Brawn…
Hope he doesn’t blame the tyres! !
Maybe Ferrari will loan him a car for his next race….
If RB didn’t allow Newey to do what he likes in his spare time I’m sure he’d happily be accepted at a team that does.
Adrian has had a few ‘offs’ yes. But you really are over-egging the size of his shunts.. the Snet one was a classic racing accident that could happen to anybody and all amateur racers ‘escape’ a possible ‘massive accident’ from time to time.
I was at Goodwood last year and saw Adrian spin, it was quite spectacular and more by luck than judgement no one hit him when he came to a halt facing backwards on the track, his car did however go on to win that race (with the help of a safety car) Christian Horner was also in that race driving a Ferrari.
“He was also very lucky to escape a massive accident at the Goodwood Revival last year when he had a massive tank slapper…”
Strangely though, Newey was not riding a motorcycle on which the front wheel became so twitchy that the handlebars thumped the fuel tank. Off the top of my head, I don’t think that any of the sports cars named above have a fuel tank placed between the driver and vehicle controls. No “tank slapper” occurred.
I am very happy that Adrian Newey can negotiate an F1 deal that allows him to have a bit of fun.
‘Tank Slapper’ has entered common vernacular to describe an incident where a vehicle starts snaking and the drivers correcting manoeuvres generally make things worse.
Wasn’t there an occasion when Grumpy Ron stacked a McLaren F1 at Suzuka and a gleeful Gerhard Berger ran all the way back to the pits to make sure everyone knew about it 🙂
Yes.
Wasn’t it on the first corner out of the pits because (and I think I’m quoting Gerhard accurately here) “Ron floored it as if he was in a Fiat Uno”
Ron reportedly also scrapped a Jaguar E type in London hitting a lamp pole and flew out of the frontshield.
That is not very nice. He was hurt quite badly in the shunt.
Yes. It was a severe accident and he was bed-stricken for quite a long time. But as soon as he got out he did an even better job than before. RD is a remarkable man.
Whilst I agree its a serious risk, I’m sure he can do whatever he likes. I don’t think money is motivating factor, hence things like historic racing are his passions outside of F1. Too many restrictions and you start demotivating your key staff/drivers. Kimi is a classic example.
If the technology pattern doesn’t shift dramatically is an evolution in the rules a better idea? So for example allowing more ERS power or capacity or further restricting fuel flow rates or even a maximum fuel capacity in the cars? As long as the developments are road centric and can be applied to real world surely it will keep the manufacturers interested in the sport for longer?
A freeze always penalises those behind at the point of the freeze and then causes either friction or underhandedness (is that a word?). Long term it will see manufacturers walk away from the sport as there is always a way to spend the money and if a freeze happens money will flow back to Aerodynamics and other areas. If marques like Honda and Renault stay as engine providers only and find themselves behind at the freeze it could see them walk away from the sport as they have to other avenues to improve their performance and thus marketing visiblity and status.
Hi Joe!
I you’re saying it’s a quiet day in F1, what about switching attention to efforts of Robert Kubica, who still didn’t surrend in his fight for F1 return. This weekend impressive outing of RK in in Rally Greece. Of course it is hard to know how his hand may improve over time, but would be interesting to learn if F1 people follow his efforts and put them in eventual F1 context?
F1 people do.
First win on gravel, he did well not to break the car on an extremely rough course. He managed the race well which will be his is key to success in rally – obstacles, visibility, mechanical reliability, changing conditions, etc.
Rallying is very complex and Robert is intelligent, dedicated and a quick study who knows that flat out speed (which he has plenty of) is just one factor – you have to finish to win. Winning on gravel this quickly when he is an asphalt specialist is impressive and he deserves full credit.
Not bad for a guy with a compromised arm, maybe he should give Adrian Newey a few lessons.
It’s great pity that engine regs may be frozen in 2018. Ideally they should be replaced then, not fixed. We now live in an age where the development process has been speeded up and gets ever shorter. (Initiated in the mass car industry because length of development is a major cost factor. When I left 11 years ago it was own to 3 years for a new car model from an original 5 or 6, by now it should be about 1 year)
The problem with engineers is that there is always just “that something we could try” but by 2018 they will be pushing at the last 0.1% improvement or maybe a lot less. We will be at 99% of engine development by 2016.
2018 is the time we need to reduce the engine size and double the KERS capacity. Take a look at LMS, in ten years time, if we do not move forward in spec,in the meantime, by comparison our “new” F1 engines will be antiques. Even in 2018 F1 will be seriously behind the then current technology.
However F1 first has to survive.
I’m more than a little upset at the idea of a engine freeze. Maybe sometimes we need a pause to keep down rampant cost inflation, but to tell everyone, four years out, that they have to take a hike with any new ideas.
What a crock.
Even in my field, good ideas take longer than four years to develop.
If you told me four years out I could not develop anything further, I would start stopping now.
Agree completely, F1 first has to survive.
Too much of interest is bleeding out to other race formulas. Frankly, I keep thinking there’s too much nay-saying through the regs as opposed to challenges. Aero standardization happened as I reckoned, but that started to become a dead (down) horse. The problem is when you take away all incentive that different directions are not found, either.
I feel strongly enough about this to clarify:
When a student or of that age, four years feels a very long time.
So if you are in college or uni or wherever studying engineering, and dream one day of making F1 engines, and all the glory that comes with that*, how does it feel that by the time you might be getting a job anywhere close to F1, there’s nothing to do?
=–=
This is *critical*
Does Intel or any other company hint at anything but progress?
Even when there exist theoretical limits to ability to improve?
One such example was the idea that there would be a limit to the megapixels sensibly arrayed in a camera sensor. But there are ways to make use of more, even simply as a metric.
Another and significant story, as to how Intel beat out physics to bring you the latest generation of chips, which to my mind is outstanding, and whatever your level of comprehension, reading this next link is illuminating, is the “High K Dialectric” substrate for transistors that allowed them to beat out many theoretical limits which were widely believed to finally “break” Moore’s Law. I.e. the widespread belief was there was a ceiling to chip design. Did Intel give up? Read for yourself:
http://www.realworldtech.com/intel-45nm-hkmg/
*or darned well should do, I think it appalling how little media is interested to speak to any but star design engineers, and dismiss that that is purely because of corporate secrecy.
P.S. In adland and media there is a serious deficit as to how to entice students that there is progress to be made. My company aims to solve some of that, but when you look at the quality of writing lately, and I allow this may be biased by how much we are exposed because of the web, it is all too easy to despair. But the world did not down tools having built the printing press, nor at Luther’s pamphlets nor should it at mobile phones which become distractions of reading when sitting on the water closet throne…
Over at IndyCar the powers-that-be have announced an 8 year development plan for their BUF race car, the DW12, terminating in 2012.
Contrast that……
If they are still around, that is great.
Hi Joe,
Are you still involved with grandprix.com? I notice a couple of those stories you mentioned above have popped up there.
I still own a percentage of the company, but I want nothing to do with the people running it nowadays. It is an insult for everything that the website stood for when we started out. This is why I have the blog, but of course they will not tell anyone that I have left because that would wipe out the readers who think I’m still involved. They use the GMM feed all the time and we all know that this operation is a bottom feeder, rewriting the work of others and having no actual involvement in the sport… It is amazing that so many websites use this, but it is cheap and they are lazy.
Not to unduly praise Joe, but literally one day I went to grandprix.com and it felt empty, and the bushes rolled by in the wind. Took me a while before the penny dropped, and I looked up where Joe had gone. Far too much of that site is unattributed.
There was another such event many computer geeks will remember: when BYTE magazine was shut down in ’98.
That proverbial “where is everyone?” feeling.
That was one of the moments that defined for me why I was in the advertising game, to see where I could prevent the premature demise of good publications.
A quiet day in F1, yet the BBC came up with the most idiotic title for a Vettel interview “Sebastian Vettel says he may quit Formula 1 in five years”. Come ons Benson, really?
Seb did suggest it, though. I somehow doubt he has the self-confidence to pull a Casey Stoner, sadly.
Self arrogance you mean. It’s a shame for him and he’ll be back once the microphones for him to whine into disappear.
Much as SV annoys me, what on earth is wrong with considering early retirement?
If he’s thinking of that, I think better of him. He’ll be young enough to attempt a full career elsewhere, maybe somewhere he will find more awarding as a challenge privately. Maybe he knows what he secretly harbors as a ambition, and that will take real time, say he hankered as a boy to be a architect? That would ask of him enough to move on when still young.
Both my BP and I wanted to be in horticulture when young boys. Rob actually did start a company, planting offices, which sadly eventually bored him, so he sold up and moved on. I got diverted by, well, got very diverted! I shall content with finding myself a home with a decent garden, I expect . .
End of the day, we don’t always quite do what we most wanted, even if we are very very close to our interests professionally. I could easily see Joe as a adjunct prof in contemporary history in 20 years. The stories he could tell (statute of limitations expired!) alone would make him most popular on campus… and the bonus of such positions is usually lucrative corporate gigs.
“Journeyman” is often a pejorative term, but in life sometimes that’s a healthy thing to be. If Seb has that realized already, he’s growing up faster than his “yeah baby” screeches let on…
I’m surprised that article was even written, I’m amazed it was published and I’m astonished that people seem to be discussing it seriously (lots of discussion on some other F1 blogs/forums).
“racing driver admits he can’t predict the future” – must be a VERY slow news day indeed if this makes the headlines!
It was written so that people would know not to take much seriously…
On the BBC? It seems to have been written to draw a crowd for a non-news item. OTOH, Alonso gave the exact same interview some years back and said he wouldn’t stick around forever. Perhaps a comparison to that article had been a sign of some real journalism: all top drivers at one point try to create some personal space and one way of expressing it is creating distance between themselves and the sport. Then they seem to find ways to deal/act within the sport/business and at the same time not get (too) lost in it.
If it where me I’d write a title more like this: “Vettel’s level-headed approach keeps him grounded” 😉
Of course it’s not particularly interesting for ‘serious’ followers but on reflection there are many people who follow the sport, at somewhat of a distance, who are interested in the Lewis’s dog or girlfriend or Seb’s views on his future. It’s easy to dismiss this stuff as being irrelevant but if it promotes the sport to the masses it can’t be a bad thing. Lewis’s changing image might be difficult for some to stomach but as long as it doesn’t affect his driving (we’ll all see that in time) I’m sure Bernie loves it. It’s easy to be elitist on such matters.
Footnote to my earlier comment – as a dog lover I disapprove of Lewis’s bringing his dog to a race track. It’s not fair. Having missed countless opportunities to attend race meetings because of our (now deceased) dog you either leave it at home or don’t have one at all.
Why am I not surprised that the power train developments get cost control but the aero spending continues? Nothing changes to the better as long as the teams block every sensible move.
Didn’t know about Newey, had a good laugh
With it being such a quiet day in F1, perhaps you could look into just how successful or not the current engine freeze has been in controlling cost. It’s been reported that both Renault and Mercedes are spending the same amount per year as they were before the freeze was put in place.
More I would think. Change costs money.
Yes, but they were also developing new engines when the debate over the original freeze was going on. So the 100-200 million euro figure that Mosley said was unsustainable should be directly comparable to the 150 million figure that Prost says Renault is spending today, or to the 135 that Mercedes say they’re spending.
As does standing still. I can’t do more than guess what amount of F1’s budget gets classified as R&D and so is offset, but it is surely a factor. Not to mention the moment you stop development in today’s ever more specialized world, you begin to stop a educational and career pipeline that cost a awful lot to get going.
I fall on the side of change might cost, but not as much as sitting on your hands. That has been very true in my own work.
That would be illogical to spend the same amount of money. Not saying it’s not true, but very illogical. If they didn’t freeze the engine formula manufacturers would be spending millions (if not more) developing each year’s engine. Now they don’t have to spend all that time and money to develop the engine, they just need to build it. So if they’re spending the same amount of money as before, I don’t see where they would be spending it on.
Don’t expect bullet proof reliability out of an entirely new engine formulae with evolving engines. Get ready for the ‘engine failure’ controversies and lobbying for special allowances that is bound to happen until these new engine designs get stabilized.
The drivers current tyre management dilemma can very possibly be repeated with fragile engines that will initially require driver management. Then some can cry that the sport is a joke as the drivers can only drive at 80% and not flat out balls to the wall blah,blah, blah…
A few more engine failures can spice things up a bit though, may all your engine failures be Red Bull (until the next overly dominant team era – Mercedes? arrives, and then let it be them)
I only hope for engine failures, Andrew!
If I had the unalloyed job of setting rules, I would be the “bastard operator from hell, setting regs to make sure things broke.
I would have to be a lot cleverer than I am now, mind you. The art ought to be to stress the designs enough but not create a arms race or favor simply who can throw money around. Maybe the FIA bods can get into some game theory?
This was not only one of my favorite programs as a kiddo, but also widely popular:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/great_egg_race/
and the allure of a challenge is indeed a not unusual attraction at all.
F1, go figure this out!
They’re spending it on incremental changes that mean nothing to fans.
They may be limited as to what they can do to the engines, but they still have to win so they’ll pour whatever budget their boards will give them into finding whatever gains they can find. This is the nature of competition, and it’s why the pretense of budgets in F1 is almost comical. F1 titles have been bought since the sport began, and they will be bought until the sport ends.
pup,
i think at some point it changed from the designers pushing the envelope, to the FIA telling them how much of a envelope they can post.
and then you got the incremental era, where outspending meant red cards with billion buck budgets which were so effective, buying the most expensive driver was a easy decision.
I think it sad how Shumi’s career ended in the way it did, and he must have felt he needed to prove himself again. Some of his races in that Merc where genuinely exciting to me, at least.
– – –
But think of it this way:
MSC liked to drive on the limit.
He came back in part as a favor to Ross, in part to prove he had not lost it all.
Michael compromised so much to deliver test data, he missed many more points than he should have gotten. But then he would want to win, not just show a good score, anyhow.
Now we see the MBs pitch to the front row on single lap speed.
Do you not see the connection between Michael running races to test and his style, and the single lap speed of the current car?
My favorite pointless story of the day is: Vettel shows strength no F1 barrier for women – Wolff
I don’t really agree on freezing engines to save costs because it is totally against the principle of F1 as an engineering exercise. If engines are going to be frozen and performance equalized down the line, as they are now, then why don’t they just make one engine and put different stickers on top? Aren’t the FIA better off freezing aero development, for example limiting the number of wing designs so that money are not spent on bringing 50 different ones in a season? The money spent on aero R&D will probably never translate to anything road relevant, whereas money spent on the mechanical side are more likely to.
FYI re: typo… no need to publish…
“Engine formulae can lost for 10 years…”
Its a dull day in F1 news for sure …. but did you catch wind of the one saying Mercedes is once again on the fence about their F1 involvement and in fact have the proper failsafe’s in place ( especially if things go badly legally speaking for Bernie ) to make a hasty exit ?
That is news worth considering in light of the Mercedes board ( my insider bit ) several times now having been one vote away from leaving F1 ..at least as a constructer … And …. IMO what the heck is really going on with the NJ F1 race should be in the news …. somewhere …
( for what its worth Joe .. the local press down NJ way isn’t sounding all that hopeful … what with the aftermath of S’norEasterCane Sandy and all )
It is the nature of the local media in relation to new tracks. They are either negative or unrealistically positive.
I would say that’s pure company politicking.
Maybe Niki needs reigning in a bit?
They have a most unusual management structure, for sure…
Newey – Back to the drawing board….
The king of Aero needed more rear down force.
‘Mercedes could quit over Ecclestone corruption’
What, when did this happen? Jump on this thing quick!
I try not to jump on tosh… dirties the shoes
Always splatters my face, but I might just be a bit too enthusiastic, thinking if I land had enough, I can destroy it 😉
I know it’s not your place to put to bed rumours from other websites Joe, but have you heard / verified any other information surrounding the Mercedes test?
I’m curious to understand which drivers took part in the test and on which dates. Some outlets are claiming Lewis Hamilton used his twitter feed to claim he was in the US at the time of the test when in actual fact he was in Spain testing using another helmet. My inclination is to trust the driver and the information he made available to the public, that being said it would be assuring for the information to be verified. No doubt the information will come out through hearings, and you may well simply tell me to wait, but if you do have any information, your blog would be a great place to share.
I believe all the information has been mentioned previously in this blog. It was May 15-17 and the drivers were Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. Hamilton was in Barcelona on May 12 and then went to Orlando, Florida on the 13th for an event with Blackberry on the 14th and I guess then returned to Europe. On May 19 he was at Le Mans, watching the MotoGP. I guess that he was back in Spain between Orlando and Le Mans.
Thanks Joe.
re-reading the Lewis’ tweet on the 16th, whilst it was a photo from Orlando he does reference the image in the past tense leaving his actual location at the time of the tweet open to interpretation.
On the engine freeze piece, would you say 2016 would be the logical cut off point for new manufacturers coming to the sport to have a unit developed by? Surely the FIA would extend development periods if a manufacturer was looking to join the sport.
With the FOM vision of 6 races across the Americas in the not too distant future, coupled with increased F1 audiences in the US. logically now would be a time for Ford and possibly Chevrolet to consider a place in F1. Ford scaling back involvement in WRC, support of WTCC, would suggest provisions are being made with the motorsport budget.