Wow. Now that was a busy weekend… I do apologise for not posting much but it seemed that I was busy all the time, rushing about during the day and writing at night. I slept in half hour chunks as and when it was needed and ate things that crossed my path (not moving, you understand). I finished the last article needed at midday on Monday, Melbourne time and went off for a long and relaxing lunch with a bunch of people who get together on the Monday after each Australia GP. It was fun. We finished lunch at 5pm and I caught a tram back to the city and will shortly be off to the airport to fly home. There is a bit to discuss about the weekend but the one point I think should be made is that if F1 is getting criticism for the new engines, it is simply because no-one bothered to tell the world about just how exciting these things are. Yes, there is a noise problem but acoustic engineering is not that complicated and if the powers-that-be can be bothered to do anything constructive this would be a good idea. The key point I think is that the teams once again excelled themselves. They got 15 cars to the finish and two of the retirements were caused by an accident. Given the complexity of the machinery this was remarkable. All the naysayers forget to mention that one. The racing was not too bad either, but I think it would have been a great deal better of Lewis and Felipe had not disappeared in the early minutes. Vettel too. Valtteri Bottas looked good as well and if he had not made a mistake he would have been a strong force too, so as much as I think he did a good job, one has to say that Nico Rosberg was also lucky. I feel very sorry for Dan Ricciardo because I think he did an exceptional job but the team clearly tried to gain advantage and they deserved what they got. Everyone knew that the flow sensors were a bit delicate but there was no need to draw this to the attention of the public. These things happen sometimes and it would have been nicer if everyone had simply played along and not tried to exploit the situation it would have been wiser. The bottom line is that there are some who do not value the sport beyond the value it can give them and so will do anything to try to gain an advantage. Ricciardo deserved better. Having said that I thought the drive of the race was that of Kevin Magnussen, although I struggle to accept the name Kevin as that of an F1 driver. We were looking for nicknamed and K-Mag was definitely one. I preferred Bacon, however, as in Danish Bacon and Kevin Bacon…
The other bloke who really impressed me was Daniil Kvyat, although one of the local radio men reinvented that name as Ky-Vat and seemed very happy. Kvyat is pronounced as Fiat. Anyone I think he was exceptional given the lack of testing he has had.
Blog items will return to normal on Tuesday – when I get home.
joeblogsf1 
Another great post, Joe. I agree down the line – despite the criticism, here we are once again on the cusp of what should by all rights be a fantastically exciting season.
The power trains are incredibly complex, and if the only thing that gets complained about is the sound, then I think things are pretty good. In fact, I think they sound wonderful – and it’s equally wondrous that they get that kind of grunt from something that small.
Get back safe and rest up for the furnace of Malaysia. Should be fun!
Thanks Doc!
just beware of flying malaysian airlines……
+1 Gary. I agree. Thought that the cars were amazing. Loved the fact that the drivers had to work to get the power to the ground, loved the whistling turbos; and from the in-car shots you could just feel the grunt of those things. A really exciting race, good to see some new names doing well too.
safe trip back, Jo
Can’t help but agree with many of your points. Although the decibel level is lower I like the tone, and the fact that for those of us watching on TV you can can now hear things like tyre squeal and the crowd reactions means I think the overall event atmosphere may actually have been improved. Personal preference of course, but I think the only thing that needs tweaking is the balance between the TV commentary and the trackside audio.
I agree with your comments particularly the last sentence. I was listening via Sky for the first time and I could hardly hear what was being said because of the balance between engine noise and commentary. From what I heard of the BBC coverage there was a better balance and the commentary was far clearer
” the team clearly tried to gain advantage and they deserved what they got. ”
Are you saying Joe that they you suspect they were actually using more flow than 100kg/hr to gain an advantage?
Or do you believe they were using up to the exact max allowed 100kg/hr by using an accurate sensor, while everyone else was conservatively under 100kg/hour due to the dicky sensors?
I ma saying that they knew what they were doing.
Can you explain why is fuel flow even a requirement? Surely you get a set fuel allowance for the race and you manage that through to the end – if you elect to choose to run at a rich mixture level, then you face the possibility of running out? It shouldn’t be about an economy run, should it?
The fuel flow limit is what in this formula set the max power limit. In lots of turbo classes they have boost limit, in this F1 it’s about max power per unit of fuel.
The 100 kg per race sets the average race power, the 100 kg per hour sets the max power. Without it the power in quali would get out of hand and the cars would get to quick for the track safety systems as well as the car safety systems.
You can argue that the cars should be allowed to go as fast as they can with out set limits. The problem with that is it would soon get so fast that you would kill drivers or spectators.
In my opinion in today’s world you can not have a sport that kills people on a regular basis. Without a max power limit the sport would very soon get out of hand.
it would help a great deal if you could back that statement up with the evidence as numerous reports don’t necessarily conform with your interpretation.
Read them if you don’t trust me.
Is the passive agressive routine really necessary? The man asked a fair question that I’m sure many of us would like to see answered.
If you won’t or can’t say, “Read GP+ to find out” or “sorry, source confidentiality etc” are answers that I’m sure everyone would readily accept. Readers of this blog DO trust you but when you say something that is out of step with the majority of other reports, we want to understand why. That is why as in what the others have missed rather than what you have got wrong so please keep your hair on!
When you start paying me for the blog, I will start doing it your way… The customer is always right, but a customer pays…
If you want to make this about money… I assume that one of the main purposes of the blog is to attract subscribers to GP+, ie to build a relationship with your prospective customers. Is an irascible persona going to help with that?
There is nothing I detest more than someone who knows nothing about me, telling me what I am like. Just because I don’t put up with people being asses does not mean I am irascible. Far from it. I am the happiest person I know. I am positive about everything one can be positive about. I have extraordinary patience. And I do this blog despite most of the people around me telling me that I should not waste my energy. I want to engage with F1 fans because I think the sport does a terrible job at that. I wish to share my passion for F1, but that does not mean that I have to put up with disrespectful people. I don’t have time to deal with every comment. So the responses are usually rushed. My view is that it is best for readers to enjoy what you are given for nothing and understand what it takes to do it. You do not have a right to any of it, it is a privilege. If you want to sign up for GP+ that is fine. The blog is a convenient way to tell the world about a really exceptional product. But it is my blog and I don’t share it with anyone. If you prefer it, I’ll shut down comments and you will have no voice at all… but I know that if I suggest doing that fans will object.
+1
I’m sorry you have taken offence, I didn’t think I was being disrespectful. I deliberately used the word persona instead of person as I am well aware how one can be perceived differently online than in real life. I may have gone about it clumsily but surely constructive feedback is useful, even if not always welcome?
Once you mentally change the word ‘customer’ to the word ‘consumer’ you will then, and only then, enter the new world of the Internet. The fact is, you have a blog that could be commoditised. That is based on the readers or ‘consumers’. That is why they may be right. Customers and direct paying on the internet is an old paradigm. You could easily be making a mint here.
well i have read them that is precisely why i asked you the question joe. are you in fact saying that as’ they knew what they were doing’ that they also knew that they would be disqualified and proceeded.surely the pit wall lawyers would have advised them what to do.
No, all the reports suggest they knew exactly what they were doing. Red Bull disagreed with the readings from the FIA sensor and the instructions they were given and took matters into their own hands. Red Bull aren’t even denying that. Their argument is that the equipment was known to be faulty and to do what was asked of them would have unfairly hindered their performance. So they used their own more accurate data (in their view) to measure the fuel flow, I assume knowing they’d have to fight for the position again post-race.
I think claiming they were flat out trying to cheat and hoping no one would pick them up on it is fairly absurd, considering the issue had already been raised about their sensor before the race had even started. So whatever they were thinking, they must have figured they had a pretty solid way to argue their point of view.
so you’re basically arguing that Joe was right when he said they knew what they were doing?
Read the rules! Read the full tech delegate’s report. They are both on the FIA website. (Excepting the directives which are not open to public view)
this is a blog, a place we all come to hear the opinions and thoughts of an F1 insider who clearly has huge access within the sport and a massive amount of F1 knowledge. Joe does not have to supply you with evidence to back up every opinion he expresses, as it is just his opinion. Those of us who respect Joe’s opinions will assume that what he says is very likely to be correct, but obviously we understand that he can’t name sources or produce documents etc. This isn’t a court of law, and if you think the other reports have been written by someone with more knowledge/access than you should accept their version of events without demanding evidence here.
Still curious how a “clear advantage” could be gained if it isn’t the first option, if they used up to exactly 100kg/hr (When measured accurately), then that would seem to be to the letter of the rule?
Fitting a non compliant sensor to achieve the maximum rate, I can see how that fails scrutiny and could be penalised- but has no unfair advantage attached.
Because he had power when others did not
But Joe .. I’ll still contend that IF Riccardo’s car was using enough fuel to gain any real or significant advantage as the FIA is claiming … if one crunches the numbers [ which a Lockheed Martin engineer mate here has ] that it’d of run out of fuel by race end despite the Safety Car laps etc . Couple that with the fact that the FIA took some five hours to make a decision they’re now claiming they knew about since qualifying Saturday … and I’ll maintain the FIA’s decision was suspect at best .. and at worst IMO a way to manipulate Red Bull off the podium … which has been a stated goal by the FIA ( to restrain Red Bull’s performance and results ) since the end of the 2013 season . Oh … but the FIA’s never done anything like that in F1 now .. have they [ sarcasm intended – e.g. McLaren … favoritism towards Ferrari .. letting MS off the hook for infractions other drivers were handed huge fines for etc ]
Nope ! I could be wrong of course …. but methinks Somethings Rotten in the Place de Concorde …. again !
It is about the flow rate, not the overall usage.
If you read the actual judgement on the FIA web site then the stewards decision make a whole lot of sence and Red Bull’s position looks rather untenable. (it is printed in full at the bottom of the acticle about Ricciardo being excluded)
and we don’t need Lochhead Martin engineers to tell us that is you use fuel at more than 100kg per hour then you will run out of your 100kg of fuel before an hour is up,
However, the point is that in these cars you can turn the fuel rate up at key time points in the race and not lose track position, then turn it back down again when your not under preassure. Nobody is suggesting that the Red Bull was burning fuel above the flow rate for the whole race,
I don’t see a conspiracy theory here, Red Bull were told to lower their fuel flow rate and didn’t. Slam dunk disqualification, the other teams that were given the same order complied and Red Bull didn’t. There can hardly be said to be anything stinky going on when the FIA effectively gave the team amnesty for running over the measured limit up to that point, and then gave them an opportunity to avoid any penalty by dropping the max flow limit. There is a clear advantage in running a higher flow rate, and clearly Red Bull didin’t want to give it up.
how does your mate know the fuel consumption of the Renault engine? Red Bull were not using max flow rate all the way round the lap, only at full throttle. To get an accurate figure for fuel usage you would need information direct from the team.
I can see how Red Bull would be narked if they felt the sensor was simply wrong. If there is variance between the sensors then you would be really racing the other car’s arbitrarily assigned sensor and not its driver and engineering.
Can’t quite understand why problems with the sensor should have been kept secret. I find this things often more interesting than the racing.
Anyway what I would like to know is how significant was the infringement? Did the RB flow rate go over by a big amount (e.g. 5%) at times, or was it by a consistently small amount (e.g. 0.1%) but on a regular basis. We have no idea. 5% extra power is a lot, and would have helped keeping the McLaren at bay. 0.1% would not be noticeable I would have thought (0.7hp?)
Is the fuel injection governed by the engine management sensors, and the other teams build in a safety margin, or do the other teams integrate the sensor into the engine management system?
I guess, assuming the legalise is a water-tight as some claim, RB are guilty. But I can only imagine that if the sensors are not accurate, many of the teams would be secretly happy RB took the stand they did.
Absolutely, When Magnussen was pressing hard and mounting a challenge the team radioed to the struggling Ricciardo that he had no problems with fuel. He then opened up a slightly bigger gap to the chasing car.
RBR is a racing billboard after all and the disqualification has added to it’s exposure. Call me cynical…..
Great racing for the purist with something to look out for all the way to the flag. Don’t care about the sound.
But, is that because he was not running at a disadvantage to compensate for faulty FIA readings? I understand other teams may have hurt themselves to adapt for the FIA’s ham-fisted attempts at control – are you saying Ricciardo did not – or that the team was taking >100kg/h in fuel flow?
that has yet to be proved. red bull claim that at no time did they exceed the limit and both they and renault will be appealing on that very point. afaik all drivers could at their/or their drivers discretion in conjunction with the pit wall monitors either ‘use or save’ at various periods.
if one driver was in ‘save’ mode and another was in ‘use’ mode then anyone at any given time could be said to ‘have more power’ relative.
therefore if it can be conclusively proved in a court of appeal that red bull did consistently run over the max fuel flow and that their in house fuel flow management was innaccurate then the DQ should stand otherwise red bull must be cleared. under those circumstances would you as a team principal turn down the fuel flow when you fully believe that the sensor was faulty and that you were not in breach of the usage limit?
yes, they ignored a directive by the FIA and they may well be punished for it.
It doesn’t even matter at this point whether they exceeded the limit or not.
They broke another rule that very explicitly states that the team may only switch to a secondary fuel flow measuring system with the approval of the FIA. The FIA clearly did not give such approval, RB just went ahead and switched to the internal system anyway.
After that, whether or not the car actually exceeded the 100kg/h limit is a moot point.
It fails scrutiny.
That’s all that matters. Whether the sensors were wonkey or not is irrelevant. Rules is rules…
Maybe this is what RB is going to complain about this year? LOL
The point is that they didn’t base their flow rates on a sensor, let alone the approved one installed on every car on the grid. They relied on their own “mathematical model” of fuel flow.
Rosie Ruiz famously decided to take a different route to the finish line of the Boston Marathon…taking the subway instead of running the same route as every other person in the race. That is what Red Bull did, decided on their own that they would take a different route than every other team on the grid. No sympathy, even with such a popular result as Ricciardo’s having to be tossed in the bin.
All things considered thought it was a great start and not the flesh I didn’t mind the noise at all. It’s no screaming V8 but there’s an appeal hearing turbos and the ERS harvesting.
Got to say I went to St kilda on Thursday for ‘your night’ and enjoyed it. I was one of those handful under 30 and know plenty more fans of similar or younger age! Thoroughly enjoyed the evening, shame about the guy ranting about Pirelli!
Re: Bacon… he did remarkably well… but I wasn’t shocked by this. What shocked me happened earlier when Peter Windor, citing his lack of formula car experience, asked him how long it took him to feel comforable driving the F1 car. The kid said, “one lap”… and he wasn’t kidding either. Both Mr Windsor and I nearly fell out of our chairs…
Re: Kyvat… I was dubious about this guy from before the start… 19 yrs old, no history, bringing rubles to a poor team, etc… my dubiousness increased during FP1 when he was trundling down the middle of the road, getting in the way of others like a befuddled grandmother leaving her shopping cart in the middle of the aisle… then franticly commenting over the radio that there was just “too much to do” (driving, managing steering wheel buttons, etc.). To see him drive the wheels off that thing in the race left me agape… certainly not what I expected. Shows how much I know (which is not much). So, massive kudos to him too…
I agree, the young guys were amazing. Its always scary climbing into a new machine, never mind in the F1 circus. Don’t know how they did it.
it seems that the playing field as been levelled to a large extent for the new boys by the introduction of the new cars – and the playstation generation are possibly better at the multitasking needed than the ‘old boys’ of 26 up to the right old age of -34 (!).
They don’t seem to lack self belief either – as you might expect – Kevin (yes Kevin – there’s nothing wrong with the name ) Magnussen seems a very nice lad with a cool head
much better race than I expected – and I like the noise of the various systems on the cars (in car footage) on the TV – even if the sound to those attending is probably nowhere near as exciting
Err, ok – so now STR is a “poor team”?
Really?
Are you confused and thinking of Sirotkin and Sauber?
Brain damage…
For history…. at the front in karts, 3rd in Eurocup to Frijns, Sainz Jr and 2nd to Vandoorne, 2nd in NEC to Sainz Jr but winner in Alps, GP3 champion last year and not looking out of place in F3 either (competitive with Ferrari protege Marciello).
I think his best strength (and K-Mag/Bacon) is simply how strong he is mentally however. No wonder, as if that sounds like a lot of experience for someone not yet 20, that’s because he has been doing 2 championships per year each year from 16. Marko has really refined his young driver program to find a gem. Kvyat has 30 wins already in his junior ladder career, or almost a 20% win rate.
Totally agree on Kvyat. Perhaps we should give Red Bull a little more credit for evaluating driver talent. That Ricciardo seemed to have a good weekend as well.
This was my tenth AGP and the reason I spend my hard earned money to visit from Sydney is because you simply cannot beat the visceral experience of being at the circuit. I had finally convinced my wife to attend in 2011 and we were both as hooked as each other after that.
This year, I was stunned in FP1 at the lack of noise, and after just 10 mins of FP2 standing inside turn one ( where we usually watch an entire session ) my wife simply quipped, “let’s go, this is just hopeless” and I couldn’t disagree. Zero atmosphere, no adrenalin. I joined many loudly unhappy F1 fans at the taxi rank near gate 1 where all I could hear was their anger, no cars.
The “this is the future” brigade or “F1 needs to relevant to the cheapest Clio” argument is great for the casual observer. However if that is what F1 sounds like now, I’ll be hanging on to my cash and stay at home and watch on TV.
On Saturday we went shopping instead.
I can’t imagine what the Tifosi will make of it.
I feel sad for you that your expectations of what a clearly defined “Formula One” car is, have been so rudely shattered. I think for your own sake you should have given it more time. Let’s compare cars from each of these years of F1: 1955; 1961; 1966; 1970; 1974; 1978. They are all so different; within a few races you get used to it.
There is no doubt the drama of the 145 decibel V8s is gone for the trackside viewer. Which is sad. Nothing like the noise reverberating around you on the back streets of Monaco, or rising out of the misty treetops at Spa, oh well.
If they can increase the volume output of the exhausts then that would obviously help although lord knows how complicated that would be.
If the power-that-be change the acoustics of the engines on a moments notice, surely we should them to do something about those heinous noses as soon as possible too?
Not as simple
Joe, While I fully agree the noise can be modified to change the tones and richness, good automotive engineers do this all the time, the energy that has been removed cannot be replaced. The energy that was noise, is now trapped in a battery. Simple physics. People will get used to it. It is not just the heat they are harvesting, but some of the energy that was sound. Plus they have two less cylinders, less fuel burnt. So if it is volume people are after, it is not coming back. But more city races will be possible without the environmental concerns of noise.
The bottom line is that was an exciting race. Watching on TV the surround sound soundtrack of the cars was great, as was hearing the Aussie crowd cheer. You would have heard that vaguely in the past, it was like being in a stadium at times. That adds to the experience. Don’t have a surround sound system, put some head phones on and listen to the soundtrack. It really is good, different, but good. If you have a half decent sound system it is a bigger experience, not just the sounds of the V8’s anymore!
The drivers put on a good show. The cars are part of that because you touch the kerbs the tires smoke\spin. You touch the grass and the car is a real handful and could spin off. It is about drivers now and car control. Sure there is a fuel limit. RBR is trying to void that. It is not about IF they cheated, it is about that now one can verify, by the rules that they did not. They broke the rules and they seem to think they should be as flexible as there cars have been. If Horner believes in his statements then we now know why Bernie wants him to succeed him and why they rest of us should want someone much better. If you think that the 100kg per hour rule can be flexible then next it will be amount of boost, power that can be stored and released and when. RBR team management screwed there Aussie driver with the decisions they made. Hmmmm why does that sound familiar?
Re sound energy point. Do the turbos give out lots of energy above the hearing range of humans? The reason I ask is that I know the turbos spin at very high rpms. How closely is the frequency of sound generated related to the turbo rpm?
I can’t watch the noses without seeing the Popeye Goons:
Have to agree that the race was certainly a lot more entertaining than 2013!
Looking forward to your take on the RB/Fuel flow drama.
Adding to ‘it is simply because no-one bothered to tell the world about just how exciting these things are.’ Major downer for me, apart from an otherwise exciting F1 week-end: The dumbing down of the Live timing screens on the formula1.com website. With ever increasing screen resolutions and a complex drive train this year, you would have thought MORE info, and not less, would have been the way forward. First time I struggled to get a good sense of what was happening across the field during the race.
On the whole, I found it disappointing. I don’t come from the INFO spectator angle that you have Joris. My interests have always been in the actual driver on track fights, and also the high standard of engineering in motorsport. By that I mean simple things like the quality of simple aspects like welding. The introduction of complex electrical packs just leaves me cold. The engine sound is, in my opinion, just awful. Like a cross between my diesel ride on lawnmower and a Harley Davidson V2. Just not any sort of as racing engine I’m afraid, and there are a lot of similar comments around, including from the Aussie race organisers! Other than that, Joe seems to infer RBR were cheating? Probably stretching matters a bit further than they should, but again, this is how F1 goes about it’s business. That is not to agree with their wheeze, and I would only feel sorry for Ricciardo if he was totally unaware of the matter, given the amount of tech info available, that might not be the case! As to the race, apart from Bottas, it was rather boring. No one could have got near Rosberg, except Hammy. His win was from the top draw of Schuey & Vettel. Bottas tried mightily, and was my man of the race. Magnussen was a very close 2nd, hardly a gap between them, and Kyvat did a sound job too. It’s only one race, but Ferrari look to be about the 4th or 5th quickest car, which won’t do Alonso’s frame of mind any favours. Round 1 of 19 or so…..Rosberg or Hamilton for the title, Merc for the other one, wake me up when it’s over……snore…..snore……
Half empty kind of guy, huh?
No, just raised on a diet of V8’s and 12’s. The V6’s can’t compare to a Matra V12 for instance, and noise is an intrinsic part of the whole spectacle. Also, it seems pretty clear that Renault have many problems, and Ferrari engines are not where the Mercs are. This seems to indicate that Merc,Mclaren & Williams will be the likely winners this year. Williams, however much I like them, do not appear to have the finances to compete with Mac & Merc over a whole season. While Mac are a customer, so if Merc are doing all the winning, it would be unlikely that they would do their very utmost to help Mac to beat their own team. And, it didn’t look like Nico was in anyway using full performance, yet he ended up around 0.5 secs per lap quicker than the Macs, and had a handy 25-30secs lead to finish with. Working on the assumption that Merc will want their many millions of Euros to take them to both titles, then inevitably there will be orders for the drivers to keep station, once they have eased out a decent gap to the other rival teams. We have seen this work in the Ferrari title blasts when Schuey was winning all the time, and in a minor way with RBR. One team domination replaced by another, and done with flatulent silence…..
“Half empty kind of guy, huh?”
It depends on whether you’re filling the glass or pouring it out. F1 seems to be pouring itself ‘out’ these days. Being able to hear the cars, inside the bus, more than a mile from the track really added to the adrenaline levels at my first race. Then seeing two commentators reporting from trackside during practice without ear protection? WTH?
I agree. Anyone who thinks noise is unimportant to motorsport, should go to a Drag meeting at Santa Pod. Or, even better, stand on a hillside in Germany when the WRC is there. The turbos don’t sound too bad, and can be heard across the mountains for some probably 3 or more miles away. But the better sounds are 2000cc WRC2 cars with naturally aspirated engines, scream,scream scream…..and don’t get me started on Cosworth 1000cc MAE F3 engines from the past!
The quality of the welding? Really?
Yes, if you need an explanation for that comment, I suggest you go to Brooklands and checkout John Cobb’s Napier-Railton, or alternatively have a look over the chassis of a Moto GP bike….I think the work of a truly skilled professional welder or mechanic, is far more rewarding for the average person to see, than the hidden activities of a computer expert controlling how much fuel per second Kevin Magnussen is allowed to use. One aspect can be viewed openly and admired, the other whilst very clever, is just so much rubbish to the ardent enthusiast.
Well, I’ve done enough welding to have recognized that I’m far from an artisan… but I’ve only just now learned that I’m not an ardent enthusiast of F1. I didn’t know that until you explained it.
I used to be an ardent enthusiast of fast horses (‘grew up not far from Pimlico)… but the shoddy attention paid to the workmanship of the horseshoes ruined it for me 😉
You’ll not see much welding on an F1 car these days. Exhaust is all I think.
That’s why I mentioned Moto GP bikes. Also there is lots of it to be found at the Donnington GP collection. And I wasn’t criticizing your interests RShack, just stating that a fuel flow computation does not enhance my pleasure in watching motorsport.
I was trying to think of a good comparison for the sound, and that’s about right. I was going with a pickup pulling a stump. They’ve got to sort that out, they don’t sound like the pinnacle of motorsport.
The new guys did great, but then they’re all really newbies in these cars.
It was entertaining, and that’s why I watch. Good 🙂
Unbiased and unaffected honesty IMO Mr Cullinane . Refreshing to see some of us can and do still think for ourselves and are unaffected by the opinions , hyperbole and platitudes of a media overly affected by commercial interests [ read advertising dollars ] rather than reporting things as they truly are [ no offense towards Mr Saward either intended , inferred or implied ] For the record … I’m in complete agreement as well . FYI … I see you as one judging the glass for how full it actually is … rather than using some tired old over simplified axiom to describe a complex reaction to a very complex situation . Life … just aint ever that simple 😉
I just find it irritating that anything NEW is always put out as being BETTER….and to me disq over fuel flow is symptomatic of the sport ignoring core fans, and just trying to cosy up to the Green Lobby. However, if looked at realistically, the whole circus has a huge carbon footprint ( if one worries about such things, which I really do not ), and that hasn’t changed. So the product has to suffer an awful makeover, so that the participants can continue to travel the world producing vast amounts of Co2, that are supposedly offset by making the cars sound like diswashers and using thimblefuls of fuel? That just sounds hypocritical to me. As someone else points out here, Merc have a performance image which sells 6000cc engines to the rich and famous. Ferrari sell V12s that scream, and on track we now have …..come on folk, ever heard of the Emperors New Clothes?
My wife and I dropped off at Maranello and lunched at the restaurant opposite the Ferrari factory, a few years ago. When we came out, a 458 was emerging on test, complete with test plates. As it went up the road everyone walking past turned and looked, although this must be a daily occurrence….if a milkfloat had travelled by,i don’t think anyone would have glanced for a moment. I’m just gutted by the way things are going.
Damian I agree totally, gutted is how I felt on Friday at the circuit, so much so in fact that I walked and I wasn’t alone. It took 70 minutes to get a cab because of the long lines of angry fans who had left the circuit just 10 minutes into FP2 when they weren’t expecting to need many cabs.
I got up at 2am to watch the race just because of the live timing. I saw the dots in the sector times and initially thought it was my software. After screwing around for a few minutes I turned on the PVR and went back to bed.
It must be cheaper for Ecclestone to just use dots. He probably renewed the contract with the timing company based on the number of characters that appear on the screen.
Yes, I was disappointed by the Formula1.com Live Timing screen as well: no sector times,, just colored dots…what’s up with that? And agreed: with all the telemetry, it would be nice to see some other data points.
Overall, I thought the race was great…really wished Bottas hadn’t hit the wall…by my reckoning he’s have been up with Magnussen (er, “Bacon”) by the end.
And Raikkonen: it’ll take a few more races before all is revealed: the Lotus flattered him and Grosjean and he’s really half a second slower than Alonso at every single track. He’ll have checked out mentally by Silverstone and replaced by Hulkenberg by Monza.
Most of all, though, I hope Mercedes isn’t really 22 seconds faster than McLaren and the rest over a race distance…it’ll be 2002 all over again (#yawn).
Thanks for your thoughts, Joe. Well-informed as always.
+1m for Live Timing comment. It’s not just me that can’t find lap chart data now, then?
Can’t believe they did that. Had actually convinced myself that I just couldn’t find the tab.
Joe, heard anything about this? Any idea why? Permanent change, or still up for debate?
Also keen to know: ‘Joe, heard anything about this? Any idea why? Permanent change, or still up for debate?’
I too was disappointed at the “dumbing down” of the live timing feed on the F1 website. I suspect they’ve done this deliberately to try and encourage more people to pay for the mobile app version.
I downloaded the free version of the app for Android, and found not much more info than was provided on the web version, but for about AU$12 for the entire year I upgraded and now have far more info available than in past years (including via the Soft Pauer.app of the past few years)
I think it’s good value, and I like being able to have it “in hand” (running on a tablet) as I watch the TV. I recommend checking it out.
Thanks for the recommendation, but the reviews are terrible, and am slightly miffed we now have to pay for for something we got for free last year. Additionally my preference goes for the larger screen rather than a phone or tablet.
The disappearence of Hamilton the poleman and Vettel the reigning Champion within 4 laps of the race shows that the new technology is very fragile. I think we will see some surprise winners this year. Rosberg and Ricciardo did a stunning job.
Yes, what a surprise. Of course it is fragile. It needs to be developed. That is what happens.
You guys do realise that this level of attrition was perfectly normal up to about 15 years ago, do you?
Going further back (late 1980s) it was exceptional but by no means unheard of for only six cars to finish…
What really made me sit up and take notice about this season was a throwaway line that these cars need to be 35% more efficient than last years. That is a marketing lead that any car manufacturer would grab – with all eight tentacles. When is ait going to be shared as a mainstream news item?
When the F1 promotional people wake up to the possibilities… ie never.
But even if the F1/FIA people are asleep, why are the engine manufacturers (well, two of them :-)) not making hay with this?
Good point
Because they key selling points for Ferrari and Mercedes Benz do not include “fuel economy”, and for Ferrari in particular the “sweet song” of a V* or V12 at “full song” is precisely one of the selling points.
Renault? I don’t know what is Renault’s key selling feature other than “available by the ton or trainload”.
I’m sure they will do, once they’re confident that the engines will last to the end of the race. Give it to the start of the European season.
Keeping it in their back pockets until they beat the V8s lap times? That’s what I’d do. Any idiot can use less fuel and go -slower-.
(Yes, I know, the aero’s been cut back too & it’s not a fair comparison. But I wouldn’t rely on people getting that. I’d wait till I can make a straight comparison).
There are F1 promotional people? 😉
LOL. and they get big salaries too…
I had the same reaction.
Is it safe to say that the lack of performance of Vettel can be related to the issue that caused Riccardo’s Disq? Not that I think he would not have done a great job on his home GP it’s just something that I noticed…
I fully realize that this is kinda like adding 2 + 2 and getting 5… but I’m sure I wasn’t the only one wondering all along about #3 being faster than #1 the whole weekend… it wasn’t about something obvious, like Kimi’s braking issues vs. Alonzo’s ok-but-not-great performance… and while future events might convince me that DR is as good as anybody, I wasn’t buying that he was instantly faster than Seb… so, I wondered what could provide that much Seb-losing difference between the two…
Somebody tweeted that Seb’s car also ran afoul of the fuel metering rules… anybody know if that was real vs std web BS?
German teccie media were talking about sensors and fuel flow issues with the FIA on both Red Bulls and how this might be connected to Vettel’s software issues, and this was on the Saturday after qualifying. Of course SV was out of the race before any warning could have been given so it was not part of the race stewards report. Potentially it may come out in the court of appeal as part of evidence but more likely we will never know.
And… maybe Kimi has braking issues because he’s getting mullered by Alonso and trying too hard 🙂
Given what happened with RIC I don’t think RBR is going to reveal anything about VET’s problem. So we will never know.
Anyway it doesn’t seem likely that a bad fuel flow sensor could have stopped VET running altogether. And I thought he was talking on the radio about the ‘K’ which I assumed to be the MGU-K.
It was too bad for RIC and for the Aussie fans. Unfortunately the team doesn’t earn much sympathy among neutrals when they seem to have ignored the FIA’s warnings and then try to blame everyone else (sensor maker, FIA).
What, they forgot to put the fuel in Vettel’s car and put it all in Ricciardo’s instead?
Vettel had some kind of a power unit problem. Ricciardo’s problem was the a supposedly dodgy fuel sensor and Red Bull not wanting to play along with the recommendations/warnings they were given about their fuel flow rate. Two different things.
An excellent summary of the weekend particularly the events surrounding Ricciardo. For me the excitement of a really interesting race was overcome by the frustration felt at subsequent actions.
Horner in the TV interview regarding Riccardo’s disqualification sounded like an old record being played over and over again.
It does not come over as someone who sincerely believes they are being unjustly treated.
Shame for Daniel, he drove a very good race.
Agreed and agreed
@PAForbes. I agree. Classic Horner; not very convincing and not really speaking with any ‘real’ conviction. All a bit ‘glib’. A great result for Dan R yes however, if it was in a car that had an unfair advantage then, well……….
I thoroughly enjoyed myself at the GP, and I thought that in any other category the engines would have sounded great.. there was an audible groan from the grandstand I was in when Coulthard blasted past in the RB7 in the speed comparison though (the sound was so thrilling). I wonder if gate sales will be down next year because of this? I thought the cars on track appearance was great, they looked a handful, and dare I say it, there were some cars I really liked the look of (Williams/McLaren).
I must say though, it was disappointing that I couldn’t buy any Williams Martini merchandise at the track, perhaps a missed opportunity? Or maybe the return per dollar is not great enough, or perhaps they didn’t have any ready (its not that hard to get some t-shirts and caps printed and then charge a small fortune for surely, there would be several companies eager to do so in Melbourne)..
In my ideal world, Red Bull might have publicly approached the FIA before the race, and said “These sensors aren’t accurate, we’re confident that our injectors (?) are, and we intend to use them.” Other teams could follow suit, the FIA could publicly say “Ok” or “Then you will be excluded,” and the world could have enjoyed an exciting race without yet another of F1’s what-you-see-is-not-what-you-get events for afters.
It does seem hard to argue that RBR weren’t doing this for advantage, in which case how can people at this level be so utterly naive? It’s not as though this was something hidden or obscure, the argument was live and on the table, for heaven’s sake!
p.s. Thanks for the post, Joe, so good to hear from someone who was there and took his brain along too, after a weekend of cliche and fluff from the live commentators. Certainly missing Gary Anderson.
AFAIK, it wasn’t RB using Smokey Yunick injectors, it was RB telling its onboard computer to do something other than what the FIA explicitly told them to do…not just re: FIA std orders but rather based on individual FIA consultation with RB about RB’s specific sensors prior to the race… *and* the fact that during the race Charlie & Co told them they were caught and gave them the chance to un-cheat, which RB then refused to do.
All in all, it seems pretty damning to me.
I do not believe Red Bull used their own fuel rate sensor to get an advantage, they did it as a means of protest, ie to prove a point. They felt they were disadvantaged by the fact the fuel flow sensor was inaccurate. This is my understanding. What they did was a bit arrogant because they have to keep conditions the same between all competitors but that was exactly their point in that nobody had the same conditions due to the discrepancies in the FIA sensor.
As for the sound of the cars, I hope Joe is right about acoustic engineering, the sound for me was disappointing, but once I got caught in the drama of the event I forgot it quickly (which in itself says a lot). People are hard wired to like loud sounds that give aural pleasure (why do so many young people go to loud dance parties, discos and concerts) so I feel the issue with the sound is the volume and the pitch. The loud “assault on the senses” as Ted Kravitz put it is the whole reason people view F1 as the top category that it is. The ultimate vehicle that gets you excited. We were left so deflated on Friday at the practice sessions. They need to up the rev limit and release more exhaust gasses to up the volume.
“I do not believe Red Bull used their own fuel rate sensor to get an advantage, they did it as a means of protest, ie to prove a point. They felt they were disadvantaged by the fact the fuel flow sensor was inaccurate.”
It was re-calibrated and the offset chart given them to obtain the correct reading. They felt themselves above the rules, only the FIA may give permission to use a different measurement method, Red Bull quite deliberately challenged the FIA. Bad judgement on Christian’s part if it was him that made it.
On the other hand, would it be news if we learned that Christian was the one making decisions there? 😉
That was easily the most entertaining F1 race (and qualification!) in a long time. Malaysia in two weeks, with a high chance of some rain, should be even better.
Looking forward to read your thoughts on the Red Bull fuel flow sensor
Here’s the pronunciation of Kvyat’s name:
https://audioboo.fm/boos/1677393-daniil-kvyat
The key is to pronounce “ya” as a single sound.
Although i think that “Kvyat is pronounced as Fiat” is kinda enough if you don’t want to twist your tongue. 8)
as russian I should correct you a little bit – not ‘fiat’, but ‘kviat’, with very short ‘k’, ‘v’ and ‘ia’ – in your link pronouncing is spot on, just listen few times – not ‘f’, but ‘kv’ 🙂
Joe – thank you for your blog, I keep checking it every day last few years for so many insightfull info and many good comments also!
In realistic terms in western europe Fiat will do it…kFiat is correct but the difference is tiny
Just can’t admit when your wrong today Joe??? You heard it from a Russian and still refuse to concede the pronunciation point.
I am not refusing to accept anything. Read what I wrote properly. I just said it was the easy way to do it.
Spot on article Joe. The marketing people will soon grab the efficiency line to sell Renault/Nissan/Merc cars. The Ringmaster will persuade the FIA to sort out the exhaust note. I’m really excited because fuel was not the issue it was expected to be so the guys got to drive the pants off the cars. For the TV watchers maybe more onboard noise will get them excited, or have more mics closer to the track to enhance the sound. Sorry for LH and Ricciardo but their turn will come to have the good luck.
If Williams can figure out qualifying we should have some great races. I hope they can keep up in the development race. Looking at the fastest lap charts says a lot about who is really fast. A pity I’m poor (hopefully German & Hungarian GPs live this year).
They won’t be able to do too much about the exhaust note. It’s so muted because they are so efficiently extracting energy from the exhaust. Some of that energy manifests itself in the form of sound. The older Turbos sounded better because they were less efficient.
It is weird to actually hear the tire squeal, especially when they lock up!
A very good start to the year and the most entertaining race I’ve seen since Canada a couple years ago. I was disappointed about the exclusion of Riciardo but pleased that Red Bull aren’t as quick as they appeared. Watching Vettel retire was good news as well, if he had won I think I would have stopped watching the sport.
I can’t see the problem with the noise volume, last year you had to use earplugs to watch the race, take the earplugs out!
I thought it was pretty shocking. Its done alot of damage, 90% of fans don’t know what has happened other than the FIA threw them out for an infringement. They won’t know that actually it was all redbulls fault. They are behaving the way the red cars did years ago. I actually think RB tried to call the FIA’s bluff, they must not have thought they were prepared to change the results, upsetting the home boy, who is also very, very popular. Really underhand by them. Hell slap it up them. Not Daniele, just RB
Nice post Joe. I was excited before the race and even more so now. Why? Kevin Magnussen. I thought he was fantastice; agree with you, the drive of the race. I know it’s only the first race however, the guy looks like a potential winner. Also agree that Kuvyat did a great job and Bottas too. At the risk of looking like I agree with everything in your post, ‘yes’ – if they’ve attempted to ‘circumnavigate’ the rules, then they’ve got their just desserts……shame!
This was a real return of the turbo era, complete with an exclusion and formal appeal, just like the old days. For years we seemed to have a constant stream of appeals, back in the JMB days.
I cannot imagine why no one has protested McLaren’s rear suspension jiggery, but then I don’t have access to the CAD model to cut the sections necessary to prove two of the three apparent infringements.
When the stewards tell you that you are using too high a flow rate and please turn it down and you tell them you will do as you like, then you might expect to get a comeback. Who do Red Bull they think they are, Ferrari?
Re: the McLaren rear… Scarbs explained why it’s legal… why do you think it’s not? (Not arguing… just curious.)
ps: Do you know if J(oJ) is ok?
I didn’t see that, I’ll have another look at Scarbs then. No reply from JoJ, He was tightly wound when I Iast heard, also there was a death which would have affected him.
OK seen Scarbs/Windsor vid but still think it is contestable as a moveable aero device. Scarbs seemed to claim wishbones are exempt, they are not acc to techregs. Also possible rt section area falls outside chord between two mounting points in one place because of dogleg. (hence my point re needing the CAD) . Other point, mushrooms are clearly riveted in very few places, thus cannot from part of main supporting member therefore must be aero. But agree that it is both very difficult to copy and to live with huge extra drag, so if other teams fail we may yet see a protest. Also still looks like it includes a spurious part.
It was the topic of a PeterW youtube… he had Scarbs on the phone…
Please convey to J(oJ) that I’ve asked about him… and that I’m sorry for his loss… am near to losing my Dad, so such things are present for me more so than usual…
I’m a bit torn about the engine sound. There is something amazing about hearing an F1 engine from 2.5kms away, and the way it rattles your chest when the V8 would fly past as you stood at the end of the straight.
But I actually enjoyed being able to sit 50m from turn one, with no hearing protection, having a conversation with the missus and being able to hear the commentary over the circuit speakers, whilst watching cars that aren’t really any slower than last year… And the turbos just sound cool!
“But I actually enjoyed being able to sit 50m from turn one, with no hearing protection, having a conversation with the missus and being able to hear the commentary over the circuit speakers…”
Joe, here’s your “glass half full guy!”
Agree and agree. The old engines were a fantastic sound but I don’t see why that means I can’t like the new ones as well.
What a great pity the commercial rights holders are not obligated to promote the sport, another reason to add to the list of those for the complete restructuring of F1. It will need to be done within 4 years as otherwise it will have collapsed or become a three team customer car series.
This new hybrid formula is just what is needed as an example to the motor industry in general. Yet in fact the mainstream industry was years ahead technically but needs this validation that hybrid can be fast and sexy too.
Ironic to hear two presenter/pundits complaining that they were able to hear each other talk whist an engine fired up behind them. In 3 races the sound will be normal.
Kyvat as in Fiat? Is the “v” silent as in “Kyat”? Genuine question. Great performance from a rookie, the subject of criticism as a pre-season driver choice by some.
Kvyat as in Fiat…
Rhymes with Fiat or identical in sound to Fiat?
(My Russian phonemes are kinda rusty…)
Thanks – I can’t spell it let alone say it!
While the race wasn’t a classic, the performances of Magnussen, Kvyat and Bottas were definitely stand-outs. I felt Bottas was a bit over-hyped coming in last year, but he now has that season’s experience under his belt and he will blossom this year in a much more competitive Williams.
Shame that Kobayashi’s brakes weren’t working, as his performance in qualifying was good and it would have been great to see where he could have put the Caterham at the end of the grand prix.
As for Red Bull, I don’t see what complaint they have. They were told what to do by the FIA and decided that they knew better. It’s sad that Ricciardo was disqualified, but if the car wasn’t compliant with the regulations then the correct decision has been made. No doubt more will come out at the appeal.
The real test for the new machinery will be in the heat and humidity of Malaysia and I can’t wait to see them sliding the cars around Sepang’s fast sweeping corners. This is going to be a great season.
I think you still can’t stand next to an F1 car without earplugs. FOM just needs to adjust their sound settings. More volume, other equalisation, other compression.
For the rest I like how you can hear the tyres and other sounds.
Ditto … The sound needs more mids for the sound of the cars to cut through a little more …
Ditto … The cars need some mids to be dialed in to make them cut through more.. And some more ambiance would be nice …
Joe, would you be so kind as to enlighten the ignorant of us foreigners about what is the problem with having a guy named Kevin as an F1 driver?
I have trouble with heroes called Kevin.
Not fond of the original Tron movie? Jeff Bridges as Kevin Something…
I have trouble with placing modern drivers in the hero category. 🙄
If I remember correctly Thierry Boutsen named a son Kevin, which caused me to make a joke years ago with my ‘step’ father in law of what a funny name it was to have with such a ‘flowery’ surname. I found out later why it fell like a lead balloon, as my wife informed me his son was called Kevin…
And you’re okay with Jaime?
Do you mean Jeff Bridges in TRON or Kevin Harvick? I heard Kevin Magnussen was called Mini-Mac at one point – as opposed to his father Big-Mac… It had something to do with Jan’s F1 unfit love for burgers. But actually Big-Mag doesn’t make sense as Magnussen already means son of the great. Is there some evil hero that we should know about?
The roster of F1 greats is packed with much more common names than Kevin. Alan, David, Jim, John, James, ..
K-Mag? ((Shudder))
What about heroes called ‘Sebastian’? Does ‘Kev’ make it sound any better?
What about Nigel?
We had Prime Minister called Kevin once. But now we have one named after me…. 🙂
So Joe, given your predictions last year about Ricciardo and Vergne at your pre AGP Evening with Joe last year – sorry I missed this year’s, currently in London – what do you think now?
I think JEV would have done the same in the Red Bull.
Nice article Joe. I am more annoyed by the whining of people complaining about the engine noise rather than the engine noise itself. I am loving how tough these cars look to drive. And how nice is it to get through a race without the focus being on DRS or crumbling Pirellis? I hope Lotus can get up to speed quickly and thoroughly looking forward to the season
I like the changes to F1 yes the noise was crap but fixable. Even Ron Walker has complained. The fact that we could hear tyre squeal for the first time in donkeys was fantastic. Good to see Rosberg on the podium, I think Magnussen, Kvyat, Bottas and Ricciardo deserve the accolades they received.
The fuel thing …is total rubbish Red Bull handled the situation poorly, I believe Red Bull new the situation and the risks associated with their decision and made the wrong one. See how the appeal goes.
And the debate about cost of running the GP has begun again in earnest. But this time the outcome may be different as the vic government is under immense pressure to save money and there is an election this year.
The Ron Walker thing is an attempt to get promoters to stir up trouble and put pressure on to go back to the old engines. It will not happen, but there are some who want F1 to be as relevant as NASCAR…
“The fuel thing …is total rubbish Red Bull handled the situation poorly, I believe Red Bull new the situation and the risks associated with their decision and made the wrong one. See how the appeal goes. ”
Totally agree. Red Bull were pushing it again – if there’s such a problem with the sensors, as they say, then why is it that no-one else has been disqualified? You would have expected the same situation and problems with other teams in the pit lane, but there weren’t any. As they did with the construction of the cars, they took a chance, and it backfired. Christian Horners demeanour after the race in announcing the appeal was that not of someone who has been wronged, but would try anything possible to manipulate the rules/outcomes.
I am glad Joe that you now say that Daniil Kvyat is good sutprise for you.
Previously, upon my remarks that he is WDC in making you say, We will see.
And yes, You are absolutely right with comment
Joe Saward
When the F1 promotional people wake up to the possibilities… ie never.
Very good.
I can see Kvyat-Ricciardo being the next Vettel-Webber if Vettel moves to Ferrari.
I think I would go as far as saying that red bull cheated. Just because you think the FIA are wrong doesn’t mean you should do it in the belief you are right. What happens if you are wrong or everybody adopted this approach? I hope red bull appeal, lose and are punished further.
As for the engine noise it is a big worry for me. I agree with the changes and they are an incredible piece of kit however the noise has to be there. If I ever want to convince somebody of the reason F1 is incredible I tell them to go see them in action. That is when people become captivated.
Really enjoyed the weekend and loved GP+.
@ jimbo, if red bull can prove that at no time did they exceed the FIA regulated max fuel flow of 100kg/h [+/-] do you still think that they cheated as to date this very fact is under disputation?
Great post Joe. The Felipe-Kobayashi incident was really sad, but the Ricciardo’s has even worse. Maybe I’m a bit or an over thinker but I believe the punishment does not fit the crime. They should lose more, maybe even sit out from a race. I mean, Ricciardo’s was the only Renault-powered car actually moving forward so clearly the fuel flow played a rather important role at it, and now, on that they have pretty comprehensive data from the best kind of track time there is.
The TV made the the Red bull look very very fast round the corners but a bit slow off them. Is that what it looked like ” in the flesh”?
If Red Bull win the appeal, we can say they are now the new Ferarri
From watching on TV, I thought it a good race overall and was pleasantly surprised that so many actually finished the race. While I personally don’t care about the complexity and efficiency of the cars, it was fun to watch the drivers control them in the rain. They certainly do look challenging to drive for a change.
What I definitely don’t like is the sound. What sound? Is that an F1 race or an SCCA regional? Maybe a quick fix – if there is one – is for FOM to crank up the volume on their camera microphones and for the network TV stations to turn the announcer’s voice-over volume down.
Anyway, out with the old, outrageous, soul-stirring F1 and in with the new, green, just like everything else F1…
Presumably Hamilton will need a new ICE motor for the next race? What is the situation with the number of engines for the season? Could some of the front-runners be running out of engines long before they get to the end of the year?
My be not, could be an electrical part in the fuel or ignition system which they can fix.
But yes I think some May be a lot of teams will be taking grid penalties at the end of the season. Some may be in problems by the summer break.
It was as boring an event as ever. There really was no “race”.
Great. I suggest table tennis
Loved seeing … YES … ACTUALLY SEEING OPPOSITE LOCK AGAIN.. Loved cars dancing around the track – Loved the increased number of real corners as downforce has been reduced – Loved seeing drivers actually work hard and you can begin to see who’s just touching that limit and not going ridiculously past it – Loved seeing a bit of Agricultural Machinery out there and some drivers clearly losing their cool about it 🙂
Do go through the comments after reading Joe’s blog !!! Some are very good and some are pathetic, at best……. From my point of view Joe’s answers are spot on…..CCJ
Any info on the fuel sensors and the systems different teams are running?
I enjoyed the race and feel sorry for Dan Ricciardo although I was wondering how Red Bull had managed to get so much speed from the Renault when all previous reports had indicated that they were down on power output.
I like the new engine noise but it was remarkable how much quieter they are. I believe some of the issue could be down to TV coverage. I watched the qualifying on the BBC and they seemed to still have the commentary mics turned up to 2013 levels. This meant you couldn’t hear the engines over the shouting Ben Edwards. Watching the race on Sky where the commentators do not shout throughout the race I could hear the engines.
One simple solution would be to increase the volume on the FOM feed trackside microphones. Overall it was great to hear more crowd and tyre noise!
Having read elsewhare that other teams had similar issue but played ball with the FIA and tweaked the fuel flow slightly red Bull seem banged to rights. I am sure Red Bull were accused of having “signifcantly” increased fuel flow. Do you know what %age we are talking about and if this was consistent between the affected teams?
So sorry for RIC he deserved better.
BOT was my driver of the day basically for not loosing his head when he kissed the wall and having the nouse to to get his head down and get crackign again.
On the whole I was impressed, even the Lotus guys made adecent fist of the race getting some serious track time in which for them was a big deal.
Great post Joe…
Through the tv, without the scream of the Veightasaurus, you can hear the sounds of racing. The safety whistles on pit lane, the squeal of tires, the cheer of the crowd and the sounds created by the amazing, tiny power units. I really enjoyed it and I’ll see 18 of 19 races on tv.
I would like to have the same point of you about the excitement of this season, but being a Computer systems engineer and see all this technology applied to the engines, power units or cars is not what will make me go to a race this season, nobody will see me shouting in the main straight “Look at that engine go!! It’s processing 2,000 variables per second and adjusting everything accordingly!!!”…or admire a Ferrari while saying “Now that’s how a GREEN F1 car should look like”…..
Once thing I did not expect from this 1st race was to see the P1 cross the finish line with a difference of more than the double of the Australia’s last 5 years gap average between P1 and P2 and immediately try to relate that to people wanting to level competition and at the same time remembering people ranting about one team’s supremacy, etc etc etc……
The average gap between P1 and P2 of last 5 years (2013, 2012, 2011, 2010, 2009) in Australia is 11.3 secs….sunday race was 26.7. I’m trying, believe me, I’m trying and willing to give many chances more for a first impression…..
First race of new F1 was always going to have one team we’ll on top.
Old F1 was so close because all the team had had time to copy the best ideas from up and down the pit lane, and then optimise the hell out of there car.
The start of new F1 is about who has the best original ideas. Looks to me that Merc have the beat power pack and Red Bull the best aero, so no change there!!!
Buy the start of next year the pack will have come together much like last year. But a year with a big change was and has always resulted in and spread out field at the start of the year. The big story this year will be how fast teams are able to adopt the beat in class ideas.
Biggest gap since 1996. Which may well mean absolutely nothing, single data points being a bit like that.
Great article Joe, thank you!
Regarding Kevin M. I had the same feeling: it just seems so strange joining together two very different names: Kevin as in the blonde kid from the “Home alone” movies and Magnussen – the name worthy of a Viking king.
Anyway it’s none of his fault and the kid drove flawlessly. Very very good job indeed and I’d like to see him on the podium many times again.
I’m intrigued by the RBR disqualification. I don’t have the access to fully review the evidence surrounding the decision and so I can only elaborate on what has been presented through the various media channels.
Based on this, I believe RBR have behaved like a petulant child. They have ignored the advice of the FIA thinking they know best. Other teams have respected what the governing body has decided in the interest of fairness. I would say this is different to the Ferrari approach of casual ignorance to what they have in the past decided as silly or stupid rules.
RBR appear to be challenging the FIA on how impervious their methods of testing are in the adherence to their rules and regulations. It will be interesting to see what an independent decision would be once all the evidence is laid before them.
If the decision was to be in favour of RBR, I believe it fair to suggest that the FIA should find more accurate methods to implement their rules and regulations. If the FIA cannot find a way to ensure the integrity of their testing methods, rules and regulations should not be instigated until they can.
On the flip side, if the FIA decision is upheld, there should be a further sanction imposed on RBR for ignoring the governing bodies’ advice.
So you don’t like an F1 Driver named Kevin? The good ‘ol boys of NASCAR don’t mind Kevin Harvick, and how about Kevin Bartlett? You could use his nickname, “Big Rev Kev.” Great post.
I know Big Rev Kev. Fine fellow. It is just a British thing. Kevin… Sharon etc
Nigel…
@Scuderia McLaren – Ha Ha….priceless; spot-on!
New generation drivers showing their stuff, amazing new generation powertrains that make cars more difficult to drive — perfect, just what I want from F1. My only complaint is the cars (noses) are seriously ugly. Also don’t get all of the complaints about lack of noise. To me, it makes the sport much more attractive.
Circumstance left me unable to subscribe to GP+ last season for the first time in a while. This years preview issue and the Australia issue (which was unusually late, because Joe and the journalists of GP+ are there, finding out what is really going on in F1) reminded me of how much I missed last year.
GP+ is the best companion to an F1 season I have ever subscribed to. It is my first read after a race. It helps sort reality from the emotion, propaganda, politics and general BS of F1 and the internet.
Joe, could you stop by the FOM office in Malaysia and log a complaint, on the fans behalf, about the dotes that appear where numbers should be on their online timing. Surely this isn’t what they are seeing on the pit wall now.
I have never waited with so much anticipation in 40 years of being an F1 fan for the opening race to begin, I loved all of it including the noise (if you ever sat next to Paddock Bend and watched Chris Amon belting around in his V12 Matra MS120 you would complain at how quiet and pathetic last years V8s were). Time moves on and so does F1 lets celebrate what a fantastic technological advance F1 has made this year. The Times this morning was pathetic in its coverage….others too from what I can see on line. Rule bending and cheating has been part of F1 in every year I have watched it…remember the Alfa Fan Engine, but when you are caught red handed Mr Horner much better to go gracefully and get on with the job in hand. My complements to the teams that did and thank you for taking my sport to a new level of enjoyment.
Who were the stewards please ?
Tim Mayer, Steve Chopping, Emanuele Pirro and Gerd Enser
Don’t bother. Found them on the FIA website. Impressive group.
My first language is Russian. I give you 100% that Kvyat is not pronounced as Fiat, not even remotely! For starters, Sky commentators pronounce it as a 2-syllable word and stress the first syllable that isn’t even there. It’s really “Kvat” with a soft “v”. Think of it as summing in between “Quat” and “Quit”. And then make the [w] sound into [v]. The trick is to make [v] and [a] sound softer as though there’s an [i] in between, but without pronouncing the [i]. You’re welcome.
If Russian is your first language, then your mouth can make sounds ours can’t…
Wouldn’t it be much simpler (heaven forbid) that the cars just get a set amount of fuel at the beginning of a race and the car and teams can use it as they see fit? If they run out before the end of the race, then so be it.
Fuel flows are always going to be a nuisance spec that seems like overkill.
For qualifying, who cares what they use as long as the boost and rpms are limited.
Boost isn’t limited in new F1 as far as I know. Where other series with turbo-charged engines would have restrictors and/or boost limits, F1 uses the fuel flow rate cap as the means of limiting the maximum power output…
The point is that there is no boost limit.
BUT
If there was we would be talking about “issues” with the FAI boost sensor or its pop off valve.
Jo,
Great blog as always and the quality of racing/driving and most importantly the ability for most teams to get the new machinery working to such a high standard was also deeply impressive.
Don’t you think however, that this is all rendered less meaningful, given the absurd decision to award double-points at the last race?
I just can’t enjoy this season, knowing that this is looming at the end of the season..
Be interesting to know your thoughts..
Joe (apologies).
For me, it was a good race. The changes in faces and names is long overdue. Cars that are a serious challenge to drive, and have the kind of fragility one would expect from truly cutting edge technology. Win win.
The noise? Great – we can actually hear tyres squeal when things go wrong, and the crowd noise when RIC nearly had pole was wonderful. I don’t know why people think there has been a diminution in atmosphere; I think having *more* noise sources in the mix really adds to the atmosphere.
And RBR do seem to be taking a leaf out of the Ferrari manual on race-craft. If the ref tells you to do something in any other sport, you bloomin’ well do it, or expect the consequences!
Why do people feel the need to attach qualifiers to every success of Nico Rosberg? One would think he’s done enough now to be considered among the top drivers.
I agree… holding your own against both Michael and Lewis is not something to sneeze at… (even it was Michael Rev2)…
‘Problem is, Nico’s too polite… if he handled being pretty the way Muhammad Ali did, he’d have more fans (and more haters…)
World’s ugliest ears though… as if the family dog had them for a snack before they were fully baked…
Always enjoy your posts Joe.
I’m probably in the minority but I really like this new formula. Except for Caterham, I much prefer the all “new look” noises to what we had last year. I like the scoop of Ferrari and Mercedes, but Red Bull and Toro Rosso are also attractive to my eyes. Overall I think the cars are better looking in this year. Personally I think the Red Bull is smashing.
Although sound is a factor, I don’t follow F1 because of the sound of the engines. I like the grunt of the new engines, although I wouldn’t mind if the volume was a bit louder.
I’m more excited about this season than I have been in awhile.
Joe Saward wrote: “Everyone knew that the flow sensors were a bit delicate but there was no need to draw this to the attention of the public.”
Does that mean that you advocate giving zero information to the public, because they couldn’t possibly understand anything technical? The mushroom concept is obviously alive and well.
No. It means that F1 should not hit itself on the head with a hammer if that can be avoided. No-one gains anything from that.
I have a real problem when Horner/Red Bull calls the ultrasonic fuel flow sensor an immature technology. I am pretty sure that in my industry we started using these flow meters 30 years ago (they we analog however worked with high accuracy if you used them how they were designed). My guess is that Red Bull intentionally installed the flow meter to have inconsistent results (I just do not see this detail being overlooked by Newy) so that they could show problems and circumvent the system.
Fuel (or any liquid) flow measurement should be simple no matter what sensor you use. Horner/Red Bull engineering team are embarrassing themselves.
Another plus one for the engine sound. I love it. Especially the start it sounded like a squadron of world was two bombers flying over. The deep round is awesome. Over did like the scream of the old engines. Maybe now I can watch races without the rest of the family complaining.
F1 engines haven’t always screamed at you.
I think those complaining are trying to compensate by making as much noise as they can.
Great race
Is everyone making too big of a deal over how quiet the “engines” are? If you hear all the commentators in the booth, they are refurred to as “power plants”, due to the way they now operate. Off topic a little, a big part of why i enjoy going to Moto GP live, is because you can hear the different tones of the engines from different manufacturers easily identifying who you will see next. I understand this is the same with the different manufacturers now in F1, which is fantactic.
It was great to hear the squeeling of the tires, the whistle of the turbos and be able to hear and understand the communications between the driver and the pits.
The loud screeming V8’s were great, although they all sounded the same from Red Bull to Caterham, that is now HISTORY
F1 has always been about innovations and new technologies, either move forward with it, or get stuck in the past…….
Really enjoyed half the race. Very annoyed at the other half, filled with adverts and other junk on NBC.
Joe, do you know when the appeal will be heard?
I doubt it will actually go through.
what do you base that assumption on joe?
You should know by now that when I get the comments they come in a stream and I have no idea to which comments they refer. I do not time to trace it all back, so if you wish to have a question answered, it is best to ask it.
So you think that come the time limit (96 hr) for actually lodging the appeal nothing will be there because Red Bull know that they have no real chance of winning anything from that?
Well, I loved the race and the new cars and the unpredictable nature of the engines and the new drivers. All of it. It’s breathing new life into Formula One, and I admit to a bit of schadenfreude at Red Bull’s problems. Not Dan Ricciardo, but Helmut Marko, Christian Horner et al.
I think this is going to be one of the best F1 seasons in many years.
So, it’s suddenly Red Bull fault that they decided to be 100% rules compliant? After FIA sensor on their car failed not once but twice? Yeah, what “cheaters”. I wonder if other teams decide to use lawnmowers to race next time RB will be “cheating” using F1 car? Because they have actually 100% rules compliant equipment?
On the flip side, at least you can easily spot people that hate the team. The more pathetic, whiny and less researched post, the more obvious it is.
a clearly correct attitude there Xy. i do agree.
The issue In my opinion is that the FAI were at the time happy with the sensor and did not give permission to go to the back up system.
This is not about the quality of the fuel sensor data it’s about following the rules.
Red Bull may well have a case about the sensors but it won’t get them off a charge of deliberately breaking the rules.
If they could just amplify the noise a bit more it might be ok. The actual sound is good. The volume is the issue (on the telly).
No need to apologize concerning your lack of posting – you’re working really hard!!! F1 has begun a new chapter – I’m more exciting this season than I have been in years. Awesome work as ever.
Good post!
When you say “…if F1 is getting criticism for the new engines, it is simply because no-one bothered to tell the world about just how exciting these things are.” You have a point,
People actually like reading about it. For example, I recently started a blog, and I did a post called “Why Formula 1 does more for the environment than Greenpeace” And that already got over 10,000 views.
P.S. Out of respect I won’t put a link to the post on your site.
Thank you. I get rather tired of people trying to use me as a promotional tool. A little respect deserves reward
http://avenue21.net/formula-1-environment-greenpeace/
Haha, thanks!
That was quite nice… some don’t realize you’re a softie at heart… they’re mislead by the fact that you get PO’d on occasion… (how you cope with all this is beyond me…)
Good read elto2014. F1 being a place where hybrid propulsion can be fast tracked means actually getting a move on things for the future. If we take it as applied science to learn things that is indeed a big pro for the future of mobility!
Thanks. Yes, the rule makers at F1 figured: “The future is here, let’s deal with it” And they’re right, you can’t sit in an ivory tower and watch the world struggling with pollution.
Sure, the sound could be better etc, but this was the very first race. There’s still work to be done, but the teams already achieved a lot, esp a small outfit like Marussia did a very good job.
Some (motorsport) heroes called Kevin: Harvick, Schwantz, Wyndham, Bartlett, Alonso. Ok, so I made up the last one.
Just making my way through GP+, thanks!
As far as the new ‘noise’, as a TV viewer, I really like it. Now we can hear the squeal of the tyres, the crunch of Bottas’ Williams against concrete, and the delight of the crowd after Ricciardo’s qualifying lap was priceless.
There’s something almost futuristic about the sound of the cars while decelerating.
It promises to be an intriguing season!
Oh Red Bull definitely came to Melbourne with a plan. I just wonder what the end game was supposed to be. Did they think the FIA would be reluctant to enforce fuel sensor issues at the first race? And then they would have a modes operandi precedent for ensuing races? Who knows.
Doubt Ricciardo knew anything. And that should make him think a bit.
You think Kvyat drinks kvass? (Groan)
Errr., yeah.
This is exactly the kind of attitude that has allowed Ecclestone to succeed in mismanaging Formula One’s commercial rights, to the immense financial benefit of himself + a select few elites, at the expense of the sport as a whole.
But bravo – at least you’re not ashamed of being an Establishmentarian who favors deceiving the public and covering-up a story, rather than reporting it transparently. Subservient media usually don’t like to admit this.
No, I do not agree. If a corporation has a weakness that needs to be solved, it will do so without involving the general public. F1 is a corporation – but massively dysfunctional. There is no need to air small problems in public. Red Bull tried to take advantage of that situation. Typical of them.
i couldn’t disagree more. F1 is a conglomerate of competing corporate interests and these interests come together to perform in the public arena. therefore they should be open to scrutiny for the decisions that affect the final outcomes. the key to this is the word ‘public’.
i sometimes think that you underestimate the the involvement of the public and their desire to know what decisions are being made and why a result can be altered massively so long after the termination of the race. why should only a select few be privy to information that highlights the basis for that determination?
Joe is welcome to contradict me, but I thought he quite clearly explained that he is disappointed that Red Bull felt the need to break the rules (until the appeal this is fact, not some hate-crusade) and play a game of brinkmanship with the stewards. In the end, the race result had to be changed from the very popular public spectacle we all witnessed to something decided in a meeting room after the fact.
While on a much smaller scale than the Calciopoli or Tour de France doping, amendments to end results never go down well with the public. That the official results of the 2014 Australian Grand Prix differ from what we all witnessed with our own eyes is the fault of decision makers at Red Bull, not the stewards, nor the FIA.
And it means that a substantial amount of coverage in the build up to the Malaysian GP won’t be dedicated to the heroes of the sport but to the fiddly technical issues of fuel flow rate sensors and the precise sporting regulations relating to their use. Which is a shame for all concerned.
Well, except TV fuel sensor experts.
@ jem. if you are replying to my post then i simply don’t understand where there is any relativity with your response?
‘fiddly technical issues’….sure. those ‘fiddly’issues are anything but. they affect the entire F1 enterprise if you sit and think it through. if it was an ‘open and shut’ case of cheating then that is another question. i have expressed an opinion and until such time as a legal ruling is made that is all it is. my post back to joe was of a different tenet altogether.
Yeah, okay, some seem to have missed out on this news.
Pretty obviously….
Don’t seem to recall that Ecclestone mandated the flow sensors – have an idea may’ve even been FIA driven.
great blog, you should not hide your sense of humour
“great blog, you should not hide your sense of humour” I think the problem is that some are not sharp enough to realise that it is humour.
I wonder why so many people feel they have to bastardize another person’s name for no valid reason? Perhaps we should refer to you as Joe Sewage….
It is called humour, but I think you may have missed that.
How do you view the comments made by Australian GP organisers in response to the quieter engines and the possibility of legal action? Sounds a little over the top.
Is this and Ron Walker’s comment, ‘this isn’t what we paid for’ more about positioning themselves for negotiations to extend their F1 deal (or at least trying to), rather than any real merit?
I have already replied to this on a different comment. It is an attempt (probably inspired from London) to try to get the FIA to change engines. It is rubbish.
I don’t usually comment twice on a particular blog of Joe’s, but I feel that some posters are either missing the point or just being out and out awkward.
Joe provides a FREE service to anyone who cares to pop in, the quality of which is almost beyond reproach (we have to allow Joe the occasional spelling error) and the information he gives is not generally aired elsewhere, at least not in the easily digestable form it is presented here.
Yet we get some pretty petty remarks about what Joe has posted, with no reference to the fact that in almost all cases the stories he has posted about have been posted (later) elsewhere with corroborating information, so why have a pop at Joe?
If you don’t believe him, don’t read it or post disparaging comments, what you get is FREE, you aren’t paying for it, and for 99.9% of the readers it is damn good reading.
He doesn’t HAVE to post the blog or post the comments from you, the fact that he does shows the honesty and integrity behind the man. Give the guy a break, he deserves better from many of you out there.
Amen!
Amen….x2.
Am not critizing or arguing with anyone, am simply reporting that I’m truly amazed to learn that some people really, really want the old ear-splitting, head-splitting sound at the track… to me, it was always part of the cost of being trackside, not part of the benefit. I did love the sound from a few hundred yards away, but when up close it was a hazard, not a joy. (TV’s quite different.)
Perhaps part of it is that I dont enjoy wearing headsets… nor do I like toting the cables and walkie-talkie gizmo’s required to use the headsets to permit listening the radio and chatting with my bride. It’s fine when participants have to wear protective gear (‘used to be a catcher in baseball), but as a fan I really don’t want to have to.
But now I realize others feel quite the opposite… ‘learn something new every day… even about things that at first are hard to believe. Different strokes, etc…
Joe, thinking of the distances you have flown and the time differences involved for race weekends like Melbourne, I imagine even you are not immune to the effects of jet-lag, and have started to wonder how you cope! Do you try to adjust to the local time zone, or do you feel that it’s not worth doing if you’re only going to be out there for a few days before you have to reverse the process on your return to Paris?
I change my time to the place I am going when I board a plane and I live life as if I was there. I don’t eat meals served at 03.00 for example. I sleep at the right times if I can and not at the wrong times. If I don’t sleep it does not matter much because my body adjusts to light cycles more rapidly than normal. Problems come in Singapore because the light-work hours relationship is wrong. Otherwise I do OK. The people who make the calendars do not really live them, and certainly never in the back of a plane, so they don’t appreciate what it takes to live this life (he writes at 05.00 Paris time)
Nice insight Joe; proof that it ‘isn’t all glamour’. I would imagine, as hard as it is at times, it also helps that you’re passionate about F1 (if not necessarily, all that goes with it!)
Kvyat is not pronounced as Fiat. He is Russian, how you would make F out of that I wonder. Даниил Вячеславович Квят. Simply Kvyat.
К – k
в – v
я – ja (like in Germany language)
т – t
Ok then the team must be wrong then
That comes from a team? 🙂 Interesting. They no longer use Ferrari engines to play with Daniel’s name. But I do confirm team is wrong in this regard.
I don’t understand your post
Kvyat –> Fiat <– Ferrari
Having lived in Moscow I can verify that most anglo saxons who don’t speak russian mangle every russian surname. Russians don’t seem bothered.
Equally, my own surname got mangled by russians and started with a Zher. I wasn’t bothered either.
If he’s scoring points at each race, I bet Kvyat is also not bothered.
Only the internet bothers.
Our TV viewers bother A LOT! 🙂