So, here we are in the days before Monaco, and there is still whining going on about the noise that the F1 cars make. The latest folderol is from the race promoters, who are going around saying that they are going to try to get the sound of the engines changed after a meeting in Spain.
Why? These people are not even capable of sticking together to force the Formula One group to be reasonable about the fees it demands, so why would anyone listen to them on the ethereal subject of engine noise? It’s so daft a concept that one is left wondering what in the world they think they will achieve by dressing up in blue and white sailor suits and warbling from the same song sheet.
They are obviously afraid that they will have to drop their prices if the public doesn’t like the noise… But is there any real evidence that this is happening?
The Australian GP in Melbourne had its largest four-day attendance figure in 2004 when it pulled in 360,885, with the race day audience being 121,500. That fell to under 300,000 in 2009 and 2011 but went up again to 323,000 in 2013, with 103,000 on race day. This year the four-day figure was 314,900 with 100,500 on race day. Not a bad result for what is a very mature event.
What did happen in Albert Park is that a few drunken fans shouted abuse at Ron Walker and threw their earplugs at his car one evening when he was leaving. This seems to have made an impression on sensitive old Ron.
The race in Malaysia did suffer a serious drop in spectator numbers with the crowd around 25 percent down, but as the Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak pointed out, the smaller crowd was due to the locals being in a state of shock as a result of the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, which put a damper on the whole event. There were also questions about the switch of date influencing the numbers because it meant that it was no longer a holiday in some primary markets, notably Singapore.
In Bahrain the crowd increased from 28,000 to 31,000, probably because the race was moved to the evening so that those working in Bahrain, where Sunday is a weekday, could attend and thanks perhaps to it being cooler when the sun goes down… The fact that the race was out of the political spotlight may also have helped.
China had a huge crowd. According to the organisers, the three-day event attracted 180,000 spectators, which was around the same as in previous years, the breakthrough having come in around 2012 when ticket prices were reduced.
The Spanish Grand Prix drew more than 205,000 spectators, including 91,480 on race day. This was down on 2013 when 218,331 turned up over the three-days. Having said that, back when Fernando Alonso was winning more the race day figure went as high as 140,000.
The local economy is also important in Spain because in 2011 the race day figure was just 78,000. Given that Catalonia has an unemployment rate of 22.26 percent and Spain as a whole has 26.03 percent, it is impossible to say whether the small drop this year was due to the noise of the engines, the troubled economy or Ferrari’s failings which made it impossible for Alonso to win.
Overall, therefore, there is no clear evidence that the sound of the cars has made any real difference to the ticket sales at races… We will be able to analyse more as the season goes on, but it seems somewhat contradictory for the promoters to be talking down their own events when there is nothing to support their theory…
joeblogsf1 
Hmmm come on Joe… Unfortunately this time I disagree with you. Clearly there hash’t been enough time for the noise to have its effect – wouldn’t lots of those tickets have been sold before the season even started? The noise adds to the spectacle. Compare these two qualifying laps..
In your opinion…
Note to self: return to garage whenever you see this guy pull onto the track.
I went to Melbourne. I liked the new noise… But that’s just me…
So did I. At first I liked it, then I didn’t, then I did, but I have to say it did have something missing with the ‘new’ noise. It’s just not as dramatic as it used to be. It’s ok watching it on TV, but sitting in one location missing half the action, the atmosphere does lack something and I think a good part of that is because of the lack of that extreme sound. F1 is such a TV sport that you need every bit of excitement when you’re there at the track to make it seem worth the astronomical ticket fees. Something was definitely missing this year.
When David Coulthard did the speed demonstration between the older V8 F1 car, the Aussie V8 supercar and the AMG Merc, the noise as he nailed it past us was FABULOUS.
The first few laps are normally full of tension, that atmosphere that you can almost feel, but that was very much reduced in Melbourne to what i’ve experienced at previous grand prix.
I went to Melbourne, I didn’t like the new noise.
I chose not to go to Malaysia based on my experience in Melbourne.
I will go to the race in Singapore, but only because I have guests coming.
I went to Melbourne and I didn’t like the noise either, nor the lack of it. I left the race about halfway through, but more because I was finding the race quite boring, plus I was surrounded by annoying drunk bogans. Plus, any tiny hint of rain and everyone would put the umbrellas up, and then just leave them up. What, were they all allergic to water or something?
However many races on, I still don’t particularly like the noise. I do like the we can hear the cars bottoming out, the tyres screeching, etc. And when we have a race like Bahrain, I’m caught up in what I’m seeing and thinking about the strategies that are going on and all that, not too bothered about the sound. But races like Bahrain unfortunately don’t happen too often.
I suppose eventually I’ll just get used to Formula 1 not having a huge noise with it. In the days at Melbourne though, there definitely was a huge “thrill” difference between the V8 powered car doing the speed comparison and this year’s cars (or comparing this year to what I heard there last year). The old V8 car… you can hear it coming. You can hear it at the opposite end of the circuit, and as the sound gets a bit louder and more direct-sounding, you can tell it’s approaching. And then it screams past in all its gloriously deafening absurdity. The 2014 V6Ts? They pretty just much appear in front of you unannounced, and by the time they’re around the next corner you’re in silence again.
Drunken bogans… Yes I’ve met some if them.
If anything, being capable to attend a race without needing earplugs makes it very likely this year will be the first year I will attend a race on a ticket I actually paid for. So I disagree.
That video had me in stitches. Epic.
A great clip but I’m not sure it illustrates your point that well, to me the most impressive thing is the amount of time Kenny has the steering wheel held in the opposite direction to the corner he is taking, the noise is secondary to the skill on show.
I hope that Monaco will allow the TV auidences better appreciation of the sound of the cars, with the narrow streets/tall buildings/tunnel.
There have only been a few occasions this year that the home viewers have really heard the cars properly. Normally the sound is lost under commentary.
I think a lot of the talk of noise would go away if the TV delivery was better engineered to catch the sound of the cars better, i.e. positioning mics, rebalancing the live audio/commentary.
However this is all in the control of FOM, and Bernie is one of the opponents of the lower noise, so not much will be done.
I think the bad TV sound coverage is done on purpose to feed the sound debate. Or could you explain why every time a car is near a micro it is muted?? Regrettably, the GDR sound politbuero is capable of doing something like that!
“Or could you explain why every time a car is near a micro it is muted?? ”
could be to stop all the audio kit being damaged.
Audio kit wasn´t damaged in the eighties although the technical level was not as high as today. But you could hear the cars clearly.
While I think the TV sound could be done better, compared to what I heard in Melbourne, I don’t necessarily think the sound is deceptively unrepresentative or anything. The cars are really considerably quieter, and the sound doesn’t bounce around and fill the air like it used to. Plus, the much lower revving, no longer screaming high pitched engine sound is simply easier to hear voices over.
That said, the last point I think if anything is a reason why it should be easy to at least bump the volume up a bit for a better balance between the commentary and the cars.
I’m glad our abuse at the Aussie GP made Ron act, The noise made by the current engines is pitiful, even the V8Supercars and Porsches where louder!
I don’t suppose you watched F1 before V10s, did you?
Having watched the sport in the previous turbo era is a false argument Joe.
The very fact that enough people are complaining about the lack of noise to make themselves heard should be ignored at the organisers/FIA/FOM perils.
Additionally, there is no evidence to suggest that the lack of noise is not detrimental either.
It is not because there is no correlation between the lack of noise and spectator numbers that there is no issue to be addressed.
In a scenario where say 50% of the spectators who complained resulted in a 20% fall of revenue, wouldn’t the company directors want to rectify the situation? Any sane decision maker would do so.
Claiming there is no problem, or that promoters who are competing against one another and potential new entrants (e.g. Azerbaijan) cannot get themselves organised as a strong group, is not going to make this issue disappear.
Why on earth would you get rid of existing paying customers on the promise that the low noise F1 is going to attract younger audiences?
Some people like the new formula better, some are unaffected, some complain hoping they will be heard and others have or will switch off soon.
I was at the race in Melbourne and would usually consider Singapore, but won’t be going this year (I’ve been every year from 2009-2013). The sound is part of a sensory experience, and it’s just doesn’t justify not only the expense of buying the ticket, but also the travel and accommodation costs.
It is not a false argument. If people say they watched F1 in the early 1980s and now complain about noise then they either have bad memories or they are confused as to when they became fans.
IMHO the real present issue is not wether the noise is high or low. It just is that artificially raising its level has nothing to do with F1 supposedly being the epithome of technology. It would be plain dumb and reactionary
They ways to raise interest from “modern-day” spectators may be different then 30 years ago. Perhaps the so-called “youth” can only adopt F1 if there’s a lot of noise surrounding it (or completely the opposite). I’m not saying it is so (and for me the sound is still not worth a big debate), but claiming people who fell in love with F1 in the ’80’s turbo era without a need for loud sounds can be compared directly with people getting introduced to F1 in 2014 doesn’t stick.
I’m not saying I know the recipe to build a loyal spectator’s base (hell, I’m based in Belgium, where football & cycling rule and I don’t know ANY true F1 fan in person). And I do tend to believe F1 is better off (in general) with lesser volumes of sound. It’s already a sport watched mostly by men and although I can get my wife to join me at a track once a year, she hates the loudness and gets turned away because of it.
If fewer decibels draw bigger crowds (families), all the better!
What would also increase the appeal would be lower entrance prices and a better spectacle at the track. The show/viewability on TV is just that much better. I find it close to impossible to follow the actual race at a track.
Then again, F1 is sophisticated, one of the reasons I like it.
It’s more a “enjoy the sound(?!) and know who this is”-experience then an immersed “who’s on what strategy and do I see the difference in driving styles?”. You’re just too far away from it all at a track…
If the sound is no longer there at the track, I’d like to have something replace it since it’s basically cutting my experience in half. Better ways to follow he actual race would be highly appreciated. Although not a (social) media addict, having affordable live timing on my smartphone would help..
It’s really not just about the V8’s, it’s about noise quality and variety in engines, and about the tacky artificial add ons like DRS. It’s about a race series that is being dumbed down, along with most motorsport series, and that the organisers think can only survive by being somehow Green….how does that work? In reality there is nothing Green about sport, and motorsport can never be Green, so why bother? Especially when the fan base is being driven away??
I witnessed a lot of that In Melbourne. There was many many folk in the crowd saying the same about the noise, how the V8 supercars and the Porsche supercup was louder and they were quite correct.
Though it has to be said, some of the blokes saying that didn’t appear to be the sharpest knives in the kitchen drawer.. (not that i’m including you in that Bozza), just a comment on what I noticed, but I can totally understand their frustration.
surely throwing ear plugs at ron shows the intelligence level of the typical aussie drunk, “Oi Walker we want the cars to be so loud we have to wear these so we can’t hear them…”
On one hand, I can see the absurdity in wanting something so loud that you have to wear hearing protection to bring it back down to a tolerable level. And being a musician, I’m definitely an earplug user (although I’ll take them out occasionally for short bursts of V8 stupidity). But it wasn’t just your ears being molested. The V8s would violate your entire body as they went past. The new engines? You just hear them. You don’t feel it resonating right through your body.
That said, the V8s weren’t even all that great sounding. I mean, they screamed like an F1 engine “should”, but it wasn’t a particularly interesting sound. The V10s had that lovely harmony of notes.
I guess that visceral grandstand shaking level of volume was an experience that will be missed, but there is alot to like about the new F1, i think it’s worth it.
it’s more about how you feel it in your chest. how the grandstands vibrate. how the hair on your arms stands up. this is the visceral appeal that is apparently lacking as reported by several of my friends in Melbourne. I will find out for myself when I attend Austin this year.
Is it not too early to try and link the noise to ticket sales? Most people would have bought their tickets weeks or months ago? And also I wouod have thought most people would want to hear these things for themselves before making a decision?
As you show….ticket sales vary year on year for numerous reasons so trying to link these to the sound is tenuous, the promoters might be saying they are concerned it will affects sales going forward…but its too early to even try and predict this, either way.
Agreed – how would Australia’s ticket sales have been affected when you didn’t know till race weekend/race day and had already bought your ticket months in advance?
Australia had its large attendance with a new Aussie hopeful on the grid, Malaysia had poor attendance with no local driver
Both of which were 2013 knowns affecting 2014 sales.
With all the upcoming euro euro races, I believe its not until you attend the track that you notice how different it is.
So I cant see how the TV noise will affect track sales at those events until 2015 either.
Maybe if you’ve never gone before, or you go to so many grand prix that the sound is not a special once a year event, then you might not give it a thought and have no problem with the new sound.
I think the most interesting reaction will come as the diehard euro fans attend Italy, Germany, Silverstone and Spa, and see how different countries react.
As a sweeping stereotype I would have thought Italians and Americans would be the ones most likely to miss the old engine sound, and the German’s and French might embrace it,
What a ridiculous last paragraph
I did say it was a sweeping generalisation, with my theory being some of the best, loudest or most evocative V8 engine sounds come from Italy or America, so they might be more culturally attached.
The American ones don’t have flat plane cranks. Completely different animal.
Totally agree. It is WAY too early to link the noise to ticket sales, I bought mine in december, before a V6 had even turned a crankshaft in public.
Definitely too early IMO. I bought my ticket for Melbourne in advance. Had I left it ’til after testing, when we were given some idea and some views of the new sound? I still would have bought the ticket. Sure the word was the sound was a lot quieter, and I’d heard the sounds from testing footage and whatnot, but… how bad could it be? I wanted to hear it in person (plus I just wanted to go to the F1), and even if it’s a bit rubbish, it’s still F1.
Will I go next year? At the moment I’m thinking probably not, but we’ll see…
I mean really, I’ll see the race better if I’m at home watching it on TV. A big part of going to the race is the atmosphere, and a lot of that (IMO) is the F1 sound. The sound that you just didn’t get sitting on the couch in front of the TV. The sound that you didn’t just hear, but felt it rattling your bones. This year? I watch it on TV and it pretty much seems like what I heard for myself in Melbourne. The other benefit of the V8s were that they drowned out any annoying bogans in the vicinity. This year, I had to listen to every bogan word that came out of their toothless gobs.
‘The other benefit of the V8s were that they drowned out any annoying bogans in the vicinity. This year, I had to listen to every bogan word that came out of their toothless gobs.’
Ha, so true. I did notice a fair few bogan looking blokes in the crowd. Fortunately, we had paid through the nose for my ticket and could disassociate myself from them by going back to the ivory tower of my grandstand.. 😉
The ONLY reason I do not go to F1 races anymore is simple. Its to bloody expensive!!! Nothing to do with the noise.Fact!
Mr-Rob
Same reason I no longer go and there is no longer a French GP to go to anyway. Wonder why that is?
Too bloody expensive for the circuit?
Martin
exactly this!
Do you have an idea of how many spectators follow the circus from race to race, compared to how many only visit their local event? If people are disappointed this year, it will perhaps reflect more in next year’s sales? I honestly can’t imagine it makes much difference, on the contrary the reduction in volume may even make the sport more bearable to some…
Very few
Those numbers in Melbourne are not to shabby look pretty healthy to me,
The Melbourne numbers are massaged by Ron and always have been, to overcome political backlash by the Albert Park residents and maintain the venue. Personally, I like the new engines and their relevance to current trends in motoring.
You think that in the Nanny State of Victoria you can get away with massaging numbers?
Yes! Don’t be naive.
It wouldn’t surprise me. Here in Melbourne we like to think of ourselves as some kind of sporting capital of the world. If Ron needs to massage the numbers a bit so that he and the politicians can justify keeping its prestigious F1 event, I suspect they’d have no issue with doing that. We may be a bit of a nanny state, but that applies more to us normal folk. It’s not going to stop those in power from doing what they want.
That said, it did seem fairly well attended this year. The anti-F1 crowd here like to put up their pictures of empty stands to show that no one is attending… but hey, maybe Thursday isn’t a particularly great example to use. Or maybe… people don’t buy grandstand tickets and then sit there aaaaallll weekend. Maybe they get up to go get some food and drinks, or to see some of the many other things going on around the venue.
Monaco will likely shape the noise debate, as the waste energy will have the apartment facades and bikini tops to rebound off. It should also be fun watching Lewis and Nico get boxed by the errm, backmarkers, shall we call them? Don’t know what we’ll be calling Pastor by day’s end.
To be honest, I don’t think it’ll make much difference. In the tunnel? Sure it’ll sound different there. But out of the tunnel, I don’t think so. The volume just isn’t there, and the pitch isn’t there. The sound just doesn’t travel like that of the old bigger higher revving engines.
Good
I like the new sound, you can hear the car working, esp. the tyres.
Whereas the teams are rarely going to agree with each other, lest one gain an advantage, (hence the demise of FOTA) the “promoters” are not really in competition with each other at least to anything like the same extent. Thus we must give Bernie due credit for making them think that they are all on a knife edge of being chucked out of F1, when it in fact it would probably benefit most of them financially not to be paying huge fees to FOM and signing their rights away!
Unfortunately since the FIA eliminated most of the non-FIA formulae that we used to enjoy on television, they (now perhaps unwittingly, but once deliberately) assist Bernie in his grip upon the circuits, his influence extends to many influential ears.
So, to be fair whilst they may be called disorganised, or lacking in gumption, they are squeezed with the help of reminders about other FIA events they host which may not attract such attention if they are moved to to other circuits, but which are the main breadwinners for the venues.
It takes some genius to create a oversupply of facilities that cost tens if not hundreds of millions of pounds, take years to build, require government support and can be dropped almost at will. You might dare to think someone might start using them for something. So sad what you say about the non FIA formulae being so true. But it’s a interesting thing, making almost new tracks redundant…
It does seem bizarre that the promoters are rubbishing their product instead of pushing the new Formula, and all its new technology. Sure, it’s not as ‘purist’ as some might like, but the sport has always been constantly changing and probably will continue to do so for as long as it lasts. Regarding the noise, two things… There seems to be this assumption (presumably amongst younger folk than I) that F1 has ALWAYS had screaming engines. Obviously it hasn’t, and while the romantic in me hankers for the diversity of the ‘old days’, the fact is that this is what we’ve got, deal with it. It’s a progressive sport, things change, and I’m a bit perplexed by the focus on the sound. F1 now has close racing and genuine overtaking action (notwithstanding Mercs’ current advantage) and exciting new (and real-world relevant) technology. I guess that, with those boxes ticked, the complainers needed a new complaint.
The other thing is… I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I saw Mercedes’ proposed ‘solution’. I would like to think that the engineers who came up with it were having a bit of a laugh at the FIAs’ expense. They would surely know that it’s the high revs that make the noise, and energy recovery will reduce it anyway, so sticking a big megaphone on the back is a bit of a pointless exercise. The cars are fast, exciting and tricky to drive, the racing has been pretty damn good so far this year. What else do you need? Louder burbling?
Thanks, Joe, for once more being a beacon of common sense.
I think they just stuck the trumpet on to say ‘look, this is all we can really do’… The lower revs and restricted exhaust mean the noise just isn’t going to be there.
If a little Renault Clio can have a loudspeaker inside that makes it sound like a Group B V6 rally car, what about sticking a big horn type speaker on the back of each car. The drivers could then decide whether they wanted their car to sound like
1) V16 BRM
2) W125 Mercedes (Nico that one’s for you)
3) H16 BRM (on the one day a year it’s running on all 16)
4) 1994 043 V12 Ferrari
5) Morris Minor side valve (for Lewis and watch the other driver’s faces when it goes past them sounding like that)
Just an idea!
Wilson
Benny Hill theme tune on loop.
I’d go for a V12 Matra.
Wilson
Not the BRM V16 please, far too painful on the ears!
I would substitute the Auto Union V16, heard it at the Monaco Historic GP a couple of weeks ago, Ickx at the wheel. What a beautiful crisp sounding engine.
Martin
I always thought they were the same engine!
Robert
The BRM was a British post-WW2 design, 1.5 litres and supercharged with four overhead cams and an angle of 135 degrees between the banks of cylinders. The Auto Union engine was designed by Professor Porsche early in the 1930’s. It had one centrally located camshaft to operate all of it’s valves via pushrods. the angle between the cylider banks was 45 degrees. It started life at about 3.5 litres (I think) in 1934 and grew to 6 litres by 1937. It too was supercharged.
Martin
Thank you Martin,
I had assumed it had come to us in the same way the post war Bristol six that was originally a BMW had (i.e. war reparations).
Robert
IIRC in the case of the Bristol six it was more a question of grabbing it before anyone else did, running away very fast and then declaring it ‘reparations’ after the fact… then waiting to see if anyone cared enough / had deep enough pockets to try to do anything about it…
You may be right! My story came from the time I worked at AC who used the engine in the Ace and Aceca. No doubt they wanted to appear PC, even if they didn’t know what it meant in those days 😉
Spitfire.
6) Greensleeves for Kimi
Hi Joe,
I live on the East coast of Spain about half way down.
This year me and my fellow F1’ers (mostly Spanish mates and their wives) were discussing going to the GP but the economy is really hurting us all at the moment, the noise never once entered into any of our conversations about going. It was purely down to money that we decided we’d go next year (hoping like hell we’ll be a bit better off).
I can’t speak for the whole of Spain obviously, but the people i know aroundme were only talking about costs (hotels, travel, weekend tickets etc.)
Best wishes.
Steve
Some time ago i purchased a CD called Formula One Sounds, produced by a Dutch outfit called Sounds Right Productions.
On the CD you can listen to the Ferrari F1 V12, Tyrell Yamaha F1, Williams Renault F1 V10 amongst many other F1 engines at 17,500 rpm, yes i love it!
It’s the explosive nature of the engine/powertrain that provides part of the spectacle of Formula One. Just look and listen to any in car footage of Senna on a qualifying lap…
If the noise is not a problem they should look at what Formula E are doing.
There is a happy medium
There are not many F1 engines at 17.500 rpm from 1950 up today.
Ah yes the dinosaurs have spoken and the want the rest of us to agree. Personally I doubt that any real F1 fans will be lost because of the sound. In my view artifically changing the sound would be wrong. IMHO true fans of the F1 like the technical advances developed in the sport and reducing the noise levels is part of the innovation of the new PU’s. To try to make them sound like the old engines would be a backward step. Let Ron Walker and those who want more noise play a cd of a V12 over the sound system in races if they are so intent on having more noise. Even better, they could provide special headphones and send a louder signal to those that prefer to have their ears damaged in races.
I wasn’t sure how I would react to the sound because of the bad press it got before launch but now I really like the sublety of sounds that can be heard dusring a race, not least the squeals from the tyres. Much more information is give by the current sound levels and long may it continue.
Well said. Especially the part about the real F1 fans. Artificially changing the sound is a bad idea. I admit I jumped up from my couch the first time I heard tyre squealing form an F1 car this year. Sometimes I succeed in experiencing the positives of a change. 😉
On to more pressing matters:
I propose to install flood lights at 30 cm high, aimed horizontally at the cars: on TV the sidepods of the Ferrari are bright red and I can see the sponsors. IRL there is a natural shadow which makes the car less red and the rims of all cars almost entirely black. I want light there! And tracker-binoculars to feel I’m closer to the cars. Perhaps they can install giant lenses next to the track, that would make it seems the cars are much closer to me.
Next I want the tracksurface to light up after the contact patch of the car has passed by, so I can see the line a car took. The following year they can have that line be green in front of the car (the line the car took last time round) and red after the car, so I can compare the difference.
And I want some kind of aerial vision, perhaps a live feed from drones with GoPro’s hovering only meters above the track. I’m done with this ancient horizontal vision.
signed, spoiled little brat,
speedy_bob
With Ron Walker as something of a ring-leader/spokesman on this matter, isn’t it just another avenue of Bernie’s noisy trouble-making (for whatever Machiavellian reason, which hasn’t become apparent yet)?
For years the two have seemed joined at the hip at times, so is Ron just doing what he’s been told? Time to pay the piper and smooth the way for future contract extensions. I mean, if he can’t persuade the Victorian government to cough up the millions to light the circuit for a night race, much to the disappointment of the Rights Holder, he has to give something.
For some reason, I thought that the crowd figures in China almost doubled themselves this year in comparison to previous events.
Race promoters are probably trying to get reduced fees from FOM. Breach of contract due to lack of noise?
Well, good luck to them trying to get money from Mr. E.
They can keep on dreaming.
BTW I dont see anything wrong with the 2014 cars. Actually in my view, they are great.
I agree that it’s actually beyond stupid for promotors to be actually attempting to torpedo their own events. It’s as though they are telling their fans “oh! Don’t come to our event! No! Stay home!”. Where these idiots obtained their experience in marketing and sales is highly questionable because they are really a bunch of f#%£€$@ morons.
All this fuss about the noise of the cars is the fault of the teams and Bernie!!! They should have been telling the world long before the first tests that the cars would be much quieter because of the turbochargers!!! The turbos take their energy from the outflow of the exhaust, and obviously dissipate the noise of the combustion process……I have a Pontiac Firebird 455HO (7.5 litre V8) and the car shakes the ground just standing still and the exhaust is deafening at 6000rpm, but my Mitsubishi GTO 3 litre twin turbo is almost silent from 1000rpm right up to 7000rpm…..it just shows how little interest or understanding quite a few F1 “fans” have for the engineering side of racing that they dont know the difference betweeen a turbocharged engine or a non tubo motor!
No, it’s the fault of the FIA and the engine manufacturers…
Bernie wants NOISE AND SPECTACLE because that’s how he sells F1 to the rich new countries who want to buy into the sport. Plus, he’s probably getting a bit deaf now, so the noise probably sounds okay.
As ever you manage to scythe through the bs and tell it like it is. I for one really like the new sound, admittedly I haven’t seen them in the flesh yet but I will at silverstone, I like the fact you can hear all the different parts of the engine and the tyres.
I also like the fact that drivers are struggling more with less grip and more torque. I think these 2014 regs have been great and I’m thoroughly enjoying this season so far.
What’s your personal opinion Joe do you like the sound and racing so far this year?
It is OK. It could be a little louder but I’m not in favour of the screamers of recent years.
For what it’s worth, I prefer the sound of the new engines to the old ones. The old engines had two noises: loud and louder. Ths new ones speak a language, one I’m enjoying learning.
As far as I’m concerned, the complaints are all coming from a bunch of Nigel Tufnels: they just want to turn the engines up to 11 because it’s 1 louder.
Agreed!
This article is 1+ again.
Recently Andrew Westacott admitted that he got “complaints by letters of about 30 to 40 people who had tickets and some from twitter and facebook” after the Australian GP. Wowww, 40 (!) fans out of a crowd of 100.500 on race day, well done Mr. Walker. But it fits perfectly into the overall picture of the sound debate.
To be fair, I wasn’t at all impressed with the sound at Melbourne, but I didn’t go home and start writing up a letter. And given the number of bogans in the crowd at Melbourne, I would suspect a significant portion of those 100k people barely know how to write their own name, let alone a letter of complaint.
Just because he only received 40 letters, doesn’t mean only 40 people disliked it. If 10,000 people turn up to a protest (of which there are a few happening around here at the moment), does that mean the other 4.[something] million people in Melbourne aren’t bothered about the matter and the whole thing is a non-issue blown out of proportion? I mean, it’s only 10,000 out of a population of 4.3 or something million people.
It could mean that the other four million will buy tickets next year…
I bet most of the complaints come from those that watch F1 on TV 😉
I was in Spain and you know what I noticed: you think about sound only when you see the first car on the track. It’s horrible and you think something like “I should stayed at home ;)”. But the more you hear engine sounds the less you pay attention to it. So sound is not the problem compare with… the amazing Mercedes form with no competition at all (
Hear Hear! I personally love the sound of the new engines. When you a car whistling and working when overtaking another car it is special. I would like to buy a road car that did that. (An affordable one.)
At the end of the season this will not be an issue any more.
The Mercedes drivers seem really fired up. That’s exciting!
Let’s keep it that way!
P.S. But why are the broadcasters turning down the sound of their commentators to make up for the decrease in decibels?
Said it before and I’ll say it again. I remember standing at Stowe, with V12 Lamborghini’s and Ferrari’s coming down Hanger, thinking my ears were bleeding. They were blinking loud, but would it have bothered me if they’d been quieter? I very much doubt it. Used to the sound on the tv now, so let’s stop all this silliness, eh?
And I am another who’s been priced out of going to F1. I’d love to take the boy to Silverstone, but at those prices…. Don’t think so.
Rather than pander to the deaf/archaic minority who pine for ear-bleed why can’t they issue track-side headsets with volume boosters to the desperate few who require them.
Museums adopted similar technology decades ago.
Wait – better idea . . .
Free smart-phone app which streams and boosts selected cars’ sounds dependent on end-user’s track-side geo-location? Bring your own headphones – save the promoters some money.
“track-side headsets with volume boosters”?! 😀 Very neat solution!
Might want them only in designated areas so non-users don’t have to endure the headset wearers bellowing at each other over the noise in their owns heads.
It suck joe , I’ve been watching from the early 80’s. The start sounds like a whistle, the the commentators start the chatting and nothing it’s a little better tha FE.
Breaks my heart you will come up with the same line ” no one makes you watch “‘but over 30 years of passion gone. This is the first time in a many a year I’m looking forward to the 500
If you have watched F1 since the early 1980s you will know that F1 is not just about the noise. You like it during the last turbo era so I really don’t understand why it is not acceptable now. It makes no sense at all.
Its not that it’s not acceptable, just a lot of people ‘prefer’ the louder noise – surely there is nothing wrong with that? It’s a preference, and there seems to be a very negative slant towards us neanderthals who aren’t moving with the times and just happen to like our engines a bit louder.
I dont believe thousands will desert the sport, but I also dont believe thousands will come to the sport either just over engine noise – but it also doesnt mean that some of us are wrong to express our unhappiness at the sound of the new power units. If there is a way to find a happy medium then why should this not be investigated and looked at?
Also the cars at the 500 are not spectacularly loud either…
Whining about the sound of a car’s engine is a bit like whining about the colour of the pizza box.
No I think it’s more like whining about the flour the pizza dough is made of. To some, they can’t taste the difference in a change, to others it’s serious enough not to consume that pizza anymore and eat elsewhere.
Noise is critical in any Motorsport. It’s an ingredient. A key ingredient with speed, good racing, crashing, danger, heros etc. Thinking otherwise is disingenuous. A simple pizza box to the pizza it is certainly not.
So how do you explain the success of F1 in the previous turbo era?
Joe, if I were to explain the success of the previous turbo era I would be running the risk of undermining my argument with facts. I’d rather not.
😉
But seriously I take your point. My previous point was speaking to the fact one can’t dismiss noise as irrelevant.
The OP said it was like people complaining about changing the colour of a Pizza Box. I disagree with that.
Maybe F1 was more affordable to go and watch at the track then ? and thus it wasn’t such a problem because it was better value for money ?
Yes I’m impressed by the ear-bleeding banshee scream of the previous V12/V10/V8s, but I love the quality of this engine variety.
Don’t get me started on the pay-wall issue, though; they should have a meeting.
Loved it at Albert Park this year, I could stand right on the fence and enjoy the body language of the different cars without pain. BTW Joe, if you have Ron over there, keep him.
All this nonsense about the noise reminds me of whenever someone in the public eye says or does something stupid and the tabloid press react in their usual hysterical and sanctimonious manner by demanding apologies, contrition, self flagellation etc. I always wonder why, instead of issuing a mealy mouthed and clearly not heart felt apology, they don’t just wait for the hacks to get bored and pick on someone else. The same applies here, the noise about the noise has already reduced masssively, why not just wait for the moaners to move onto something else instead of messing about with trumpets?
^This! +1
There is no real alternative ether I go and watch world class motor sport or I do not. If f1 had real competitor with more noise then it might be a factor but what are my options? travel to the states? Or Le Mans? I hate to say it but both those options make an abandoned runway in Northamptonshire look convenient.
Anyone who says sound is not an important part of the sensory experience is fooling themselves. (Try playing a racing game on low or no volume and you will see what a difference it makes)
How do you get part of the impression of speed if not for the sound a car makes when it accelerates? The cars may be going about the same speed as last year, but watching them, they just dont appear to be going as fast anymore because part of the sensory experience is missing.
Also F1 is supposed to be the king of the jungle of motorsport but sounds more like a wounded deer with a sore throat. Until all other motorsports sound the same as F1 currently does there will be this complaint about the noise.
In your opinion…
I completely do not agree with you Jungle…to me they seem to go faster because you expect more sound than there is…but you do see them move blistering fast (as always)….
On the whole topic, I think it could be a bit louder but the new engine formula is a big part of what is keeping the circus going and without it we would loose F1 in a couple of years because of lack of engineering interest by the car companies. The world has changed and so should the F1 fan. It has always been about the most cutting edge technology….the LaFerrari, P1 and 918 use these systems as well, of course because of regulations….but we really do only have one planet and although we can have fun on it…we really should take better care of it and this is from a F1 perspective a step in the right direction.
And mine 🙂
My opinion too. Regular punters buy tickets, you don’t. I am less likely to buy tickets with the current, quieter cars – so there’s is a metric for the people trying to sell tickets.
On the TV broadcast, sometimes the loudest sound picked up by the track side microphones is the tyres.
I think you’ll find that top-level WEC/LMP already sounds like this (nobody even knows the Audi’s are on the scene until they drive past), as does most Touring Car racing.
The turbo-powered WRC cars still sounds mental because they don’t have fuel restrictions, meaning they can burn extra fuel in the exhaust to make noise. Once they bring in a flow restriction (likely, because they’re already approaching the speed and power of the previous generation with the newer, smaller cars), that sport will be equally quiet, although there will always be a safety concern of silent cars given the fan proximity.
The only sports that will likely stay NA (Naturally aspirated or Noisy Ars*holes, your choice) will be the cheaper open wheel series. I can imagine there will be a push to move GP2 and WSR to turbos once it becomes financially viable, because they’ll mean they’ll be relevant feeder formulas once again.
It’s important, but only as a secondary issue. Granted, driving without sound is odd, but that’s because when driving you need that auditory feedback you are accustomed to to perform at 100%. It’s easier to pick up your revs by ear for example, than looking at the rev counter, when you need to see your line out of the corner.
Answer me this – when you are at a junction, looking to pull out, how do you assess how fast oncoming traffic is coming in your direction? With your eyes, or your ears? It’s the same when you see these little hatchbacks with an exhaust built to sound loud, despite the car struggling to pass 70 mph. The loudest thing I heard recently was a rather pithy little moped, that topped out at about 20 mph, complete with L plates.
For me, the sensation of speed was always primarily visual. Sound was secondary.. when I saw F1 live, the sound of the V10’s was striking, but what struck me more was how fast the F1 cars rounded Stowe; it almost looked like they didn’t brake for the corner at all! If anything, the cars look slower on TV now from the loss of cornering speeds, but that merely shows off how impressive the new engines are.
IMO, we’re moving in a quieter direction in general (PC and all that jazz.. look at the restrictions on racing track sound levels), so F1 is again leading the forefront on that issue. A quieter sound will also allow more people to attend the races, especially younger audiences, which is what F1 needs to continue growing in future, as Joe points out regularly. Only fringe fans will mostly mourn the loss of the OTT sound, who will then be replaced by a new audience, that likes the new sound.
PS. There is an abundance of deer now that there is no top predator for them… if we see Formula E as the wounded deer with a sore throat, then it’ll be interesting to see if F1 moves to kill it off or lets that happen by itself, as happened to other pretenders like A1GP.
All serious sim racers will tell you that being able to hear the tyres is the important factor as that helps to provide some of the missing info from the “seat of the pants” that you get in real life. You only need to be able to hear the engine enough to assist you in upshifting. So whilst you are technically correct in saying that racing games require sound, they do not require loud sounds and engines that drown out other sounds are counter-productive.
I for one absolutely love being able to hear the occasional tyre squeal with the current F1 cars. This really adds to the appreciation of what is happening and is a massive improvement on recent years.
Anyone who thinks Ron Walker is Bernie’s lapdog has never met the man. I have a JV with one of his companies and he is nothing less than forthright. He calls a spade a spade.
Secondly, whilst I am a fan of turbo technology in general, I do think the noise is an issue. Not the character but the volume. I say this from having attended the Malaysian GP this year, so I put my money where my mouth is so I’m not just another arm-chair whinger! I am not advocating a return to the past. But I think the volume really depends on how far away from the track you’re seated. Perhaps Joe’s opinion is based on being closer to the track in the press box. But if you’re in the nose bleed seats in a stand ~20-50m from the track (Turn 1 at Sepang in my case), it can be difficiult to hear the cars with all the background noise (people, track speakers etc).
Unfortunately, most of the casual fans seated around me all hated the new sound. Perhaps a combination of crowd education (FIA?) and slightly louder cars would keep up the attendance next year. Those numbers are more relevant than this year’s.
Ron and Bernie are mates, partners, rivals and enemies am at the same time, but whenever there is a real fight (as opposed to a media show fight) Ron is with Bernie.
I was finding it difficult to describe the feeling and I think you did this perfectly: character and volume, how elegantly put!
It was the same in the top row of the grandstand at the turn in Melbourne – no big fan of the lower volume levels.
Some of the last era Turbo`s were both quiet AND painful… very painful.
As I understand it it’s fuel flow rate that limits revs which in turn limits the sound. Nothing to stop making the last laps limit free? Just a idea that might be argued to reward conservative drivers. Am I being too silly, too gimmicky?
No, it’s energy recovery from the exhaust gases which limits the sound.
Thanks for that Oxo. Penny dropped!
It’s not just that – They have to try and make 5 complete PUs last the entire year, meaning no team wants to stress them and go for full-power, lest they cause themselves a mischief heading into Bernie’s Big Abu-Dhabi Blowout Double Points Mega Bonanza.
Well they could just plug the drivers into simulators, link them together, and run the whole damn show in virtual reality….that was meant to be a joke…but will probably happen at some point if there isn’t a stand taken by those who just love motorsports!
However, that aside, back in the day, it was quite possible to race flat out and make a Cosworth DFV run 1000 miles or so without braking, so how is all the new tech an improvement in that respect? And how can you have a competition where people have to save fuel, save tyres, save engines, save gearboxes etc etc?? Frankly it is all a retrograde step to far in my view.
It will happen. E-sports will continue to encroach into the territory of real sports – and why not? For a start, the barrier to entry is generally considerably lower, particularly for the games consoles. The two will stand alongside one-another with the digital racers untroubled by mortal constraints like safety.
You become a virtual champion when the danger is gone… It is not real.
Indeed it is not, which allows for bending the laws of nature rather than just the technical regulations, all in the quest for a better spectacle. The best analogy I can think of is that e-sports are to real sport what cartoons are to theatre. There’s room for both.
Ask Bob Hoskins about cartoons and theatre mixing.
Ouch, dammit we can’t. But any excuse to watch Who Framed Rodger Rabbit . .
Eddie Valiant: you need a heart, before you can have a attack.
Sure, schmaltz, but proper stuff.
Glad to see you haven’t lost your taste for the eclectic, sir.
I’m afraid you’re wrong Damian (sorry!). Back in the day you didn’t run your car flat out all through the race, precisely for reasons of reliability (and also to give yourself some kind of personal safety margin). Jack Brabham was a master at this, making (for example) a better fist of preserving his gearboxes in 1959 than did Stirling Moss.
It was only around the mid-late 1990s that the cars achieved their current staggering degree of reliability, allowing them to run more or less flat out throughout a race.
Correct. To finish first, first you must finish…
Ask JYS about his 1969 British GP battle with Jochen Rindt….they were certainly flat out until Rindt had a bodywork/rear wing issue, or it might have been a rear puncture, anyway, JYS was able to alert him to a problem, but the battle stopped when Rindt had to pit. Races at Monza & Spa were also usually flat out and at other great circuits, where regard for personal safety was not always the priority of the drivers. Of course flat out GP dices did not happen for every driver in every race, and if not under threat, drivers reduced their pace, that has always been the case. However, I think you would be hard pressed to find any racing fan who would accept that such as Moss, in his hey day, or Ronnie Peterson ( for example ) ever drove less than the max that they could on a given day. In fact your comment re Moss just shows that to be true, as he was probably the fastest of his group at that time, but he also punished the equipment hard, as a result, and had a lot of DNF’s because of that.
Re Moss – part of the reason he was never world champion! (I feel bad even saying that…)
Some drivers in some races – Fangio in the latter part of the 57 German GP would be another striking example. But going back to the comment I was responding to, it was not possible to *reliably* run a Cosworth flat out from start to finish without breaking it. You might get away with it. But often you would not.
On a slightly different tack, am I the only one who misses unreliability? For me it gave a degree of excitement even to races in which one driver dominates all the rest, as you could never be quite sure that they would make it to the finish.
I would still say that the 3000cc engines were pretty reliable, especially the DFV. There used to be all sorts of failures, chassis problems, brakes,gearboxes,electrics,fuel pumps and so on. Engines used to fail, but mostly they were in the poorer teams. You didn’t often get engine failures at Lotus,Mclaren,Brabham or Tyrrell. From 1970 on, the Boxer 12 in the Ferrari cars was mostly reliable, apart from some crankshaft failures.
So, in the main the cars were raced hard, and rarely had to run slow to save tyres or fuel. And I expect you are not the only one who would wish for a few more reliability issues these days, to spice matters up!
Maybe the gaming generation has finally taken over the world!!? We need to stop this before you get “extra lives” for completing some backwards pass around a hairpin because of a glitch in the 3D geometry allowing you to slip a couple of logical reference points in the sim. Bernie’s double points are too much like very poor imitations of easter eggs in games. They should only be unlocked if you run your engine ragged, IMO, unlock when you blow a engine first only. But I’m drifting down a very precarious line of thought . .
“No rule shall be kept for more than two seasons that seeks to reduce budgets if properly adjusted for real inflation there is no reduction in budgets.”
How about that?
Changing the rules requires adapting, adapting costs resources and resources cost money.
It’s a tricky situation.
The rules only allow the full fuel rate above 10500 rpm specifically to make some noise. Without that minimum rpm rule the engines would not be run anywhere near that, and you would probably only hear the MGUs. Formula E anyone?
I think you’ve got it sort of backwards. The maximum flow rate is at 10,500 rpm. After that the rate is flat and doesn’t change from the 100 kg/hr maximum. The rate increases with rpm up to the 10,500 limit. That’s why you see about 12,500 revs maximum during races; there is no power increase after that.
Why not split the race, then? First half, fuel flow limited below 10.500, second not? Why not a economy drive for so long, then a all out? Demonstrate your efficiency when grid close and overtakes tempting, position for the final battle rather like a safety car release? I like the strategy around fuel, I really enjoy the transmission noises and all of that in close battle. But let them loose. Somehow let them loose. Within a couple of years those engines will be able to rev far far higher, the efficiencies be that more impressive, the only question is how to show them off.
P.s. sorry for self reference but this also could fit with my oft commented desire to see non championship races without restrictions in place. Those could be important to show aspects of cars which other formulae might claim for their own in due course. I don’t know at all in reality, but could F1 compete with Formula E in terms of actual energy input used? So many comments now reflect the prototype series positively. That needs reflecting back, with a response.
Formula E is not a prototype series. It is a spec championship. It does good PR but has to prove it can survive. I think it is way too early for an EV series and I think that to survive it will probably go hybrid, sooner rather than later.
I’m just tempted to say we might as well make F1 a prototype series, or simply acknowledge that the way it’s changed gets very close to the same effect. I’d slur the marketing speak, anyhow. A lot of positive comments about the current powertrain sound coming from those recently impressed by LMP series, and I’ve been deeply impressed by what’s gone on there. Maybe I’m thinking of making a different kind of “right” noise, though 😉
Money
I like that idea John, perhaps the last 10% of laps, it could add another dimension to the race, although from memory Lewis seemed pretty frugal with his fuel usage in races, so he may just blast off into the distance…
JoJ, it would be impossible to be too gimmicky anymore in relation to F1.
KERS, DRS, Forced use of all compounds once a race, Quali with fuel, quali without fuel, no changes after quali, MGUK, one motor for 10 races, Penalties for breathing, no swearing, team orders banned, team orders allowed, Tilkedrome straight brake straight brake, fuel flow meter, no refueling, soft tyres, hard tyres, blown tyres, etc etc etc.
Frankly, I don’t know what the product of F1 even is? Le Mans sprint? F1 enduro? Electric F1/FE? Hard core racing? Girl touchy feely pass here pls? Wtf and whatever.
Bad side of the bed it seems.
Flame away.
Gimmicky? Compared to double points?
As other have pointed out, the promoters who are complaining are cutting off their nose to spite their face.
On that note, if they weren’t whining about the noise of the new cars, they would be whining about the noses.
Joe, I’m sure you know that attendance figures at the Melbourne grand prix have always included event staff, race officials, media representatives and racing team members, totally nearly 15,000 per day, and nearly 60,000 over the four days of the event. The four day figure includes repeat attendances by the same people. Economic studies (the latest by Ernst & Young in 2011) have shown that the patronage of the Melbourne grand prix by actual individual spectators, is about one third of the claimed 4-day attendance figure.
That is how statistics are done. It’s not unusual.
Presumably, if the ‘staff’ figures are included in every year then it makes no real odds for this argument. It would suit Ron far better (in this particular argument) if they were included for every year except this year. Excluding ‘staff’ figures makes the proportional variance that much greater but doesn’t change the fact that attendance in 2014 was less than 5% away from that in 2013 which (and here I generalise grossly) most statisticians will tell you taken in a single event is not overly significant.
Whichever way you slice it, attendance in Melbourne was up this year on 2009 and 2011. As I believe somebody pointed out earlier, the evidence that the ‘new’ Formula one is driving away punters will come next year as those that went this year and decide to stay away because it’s not noisy enough stay away, whilst those that have decided that they want to hear the tyres squealing and the car bottoming out for real -and not just over the telly box- buy a ticket for the first time..
Now the cost of the ticket and the cost of pay-per-view, general best use of all available media and how to make the sport as visually/intellectually appealing as possible is another argument entirely. I’m afraid I’m one of the people that Mr. E hates as I download my races from one of those nefarious sites that gets blocked in various countries. In my defence I work in the middle of the Mexican jungle with no access to Sky, the BBC or any other reputable source. With my available bandwidth it takes the best part of the week to download a race and in doing so open up my system to all kinds of virus’ etc.
Now, not everybody lives in the middle of the jungle -I appreciate that- but if the race was available to download as a package complete with a timing app that I could sync on my kindle/iPad/Galaxy/iPhone to the race playing on my laptop I would definitely pay a reasonable amount, something in the order of $10 for quali, $20 for the race and maybe $20 one off for the app. I think there would be a market, there must be other people out there that miss the race for whatever reason and want to watch it later without having recourse to TiVO or onDemand.
As it stands, I get it for free with no timing and have to avoid all social media and most news websites for a week after each meeting – which I doubt suits any party concerned.
Personally I think the drop in numbers is more likely to be attributed to the perceived lack of competition over the last couple of seasons. I think that instead of carrying on about the noise or sound quality, they should be looking at making ways of make the smaller teams more competitive.
It looks already that Mercedes has got the manufactures title wrapped up.
I’ve kept out of this debate until I hear them in the flesh.
My view at present is that I like the way F1 has gone but think its a great shame that the noise is lost. However, I haven’t actually heard them so I will reserve judgement until then.
I would say that I think the noise is important but I’m not convinced that it’s the end of the world. As long as the sport promotes itself positively and sells itself I think it will be fine. Yes, when I take my son to his first race I’ll be telling him about the V8’s but then life moves on and in another 10 years electric cars that make no noise will be common place. A little bit like a pub without smokers.
Does anyone know which race generally has the highest attendance?
I came across a 2012 article saying the USGP in Texas had a raceday attendance of 117,000 second only to Silverstone’s 127,000. The three day attendance of 265,000 was third to Silverstone and Montreal. So the British Grand Prix is probably the most attended over a period.
I’m looking forward to hearing them in the flesh (metal?) on Sunday. I’ll reserve judgment until then. My TV has cheapo speakers.
Sorry I haven’t read all the comments before making this one, but I would like to address this question to all those who would like to change the noise made by the latest engines.
How much success do you think you would have trying to make a cat bark?
Make a cat bark? Easy, dip it in petrol and lob a match at it. It will go WOOF. I’m sorry a puerility wave struck.
Joe, do you think the recent stories related to Peter Scudamore make it more or less likely that he might have a chance to take over from Bernie?
I don’t think he’s in the picture. Useful decoy for a week or two
“So, here we are in the days before Monaco, and there is still whining going on about the noise that the F1 cars make.”
No, people aren’t whining, a large percentage of the fan’s just aren’t happy with the new sound. The fact Mercedes tried a different exhaust to improve the sound, the circuit bosses are having meetings about it and you keeping on mentioning it on your blog means it’s not just a small minority that doesn’t like the sound.
If engine sound affects ticket sales it’s not something that is going to get noticed overnight. A lot of people only go to a race on occasion (most probably not even once a year), it will take a while before the group of people that decides to not visit a race because of the lack of sound becomes large enough to be noticed (e.g. a lot might decided they first want to hear the sound for themselves).
Even if it doesn’t affect ticket sales I still think it’s a valid subject for discussion. You always talk about how it’s important that F1 puts up a good show. Noise is a rather large part of F1 and with the amount of people of people complaining about (the lack of) it wouldn’t that hurt F1 in the long run? The amount of current fans dropping F1 is probably small, but less noise isn’t exactly going to pull new fans in either.
A large percentage? Says who?
I’m not happy with the sound. But I’m not unhappy why the sound is the way it is. I feel like moaning a teenage complaint that just don’t like how my girl looks in a new dress. I mean, it’s not her.. .. I feel different. I’m not sure what to do. Maybe I should try a compliment, and see if that makes her smile. Oh, hmmm, yes, that almost works, try again. Same people, same racers, same hearts and minds. Different dress. Does she kiss differently? Actually, yes. Hmmm. More interesting. People do behave differently wearing different clothes. Is there some place different we can go dressed this way? Hmmm, okay…
Sorry I’m being so facetious. But the world hasn’t been invaded with aliens taking over everyone’s brains or anything. Though Pierce Brosnan did a good turn in a movie a bit like that. . .
In the Dutch press last week was an article that about 700 people in the Netherlands die each year as the result of noise polution. This number was based on an EU investigation, which stated that over 3000 people in the EU die annually due to the stress caused by noise. Of course these numbers mainly relate to people living in big cities, where the 24-hour economy makes it noisy day and night. However noise is a serious cause of stress and reduces the life span of humans. So it’s a very healthy development that F1 reduces the noise levels of the engines.
Do people who go to rock concerts all start dropping dead outside the venue?
Inanimate resting note: Back when the Audi LMP1 V12 Turbo Diesels came out , everyone was in amazement as to how quite they were. Mind you, no one complained at all. It was actually considered a “Wow Factor”. I’ve never ,to this day, heard a complaint about them, or their subsequent V10 and V6 Turbo Diesels, or the Peugeot’s for that matter. In addition, I think that the attendance at the races actually increased and at those events, the promotors, without the exorbitant F1 fees, turned a handsome profit. Ironically, as I stated earlier, as well as in the past, with the noise issue, the promotors are actually begging people not to come tithe races. It’s truly remarkable and for someone such as myself, who spent a carrier in marketing and sales, it’s akin to watching a successful company suddenly promote their trash collectors to their board of directors. People who are in the sales and marketing field who are fans of F1 today are having a “WTF? Moment”. It’s really unbelievable. The only possible explanation could be that they are relying on reverse psychology to subliminally attract fans to their races, which is entirely possible. If this is the case however, the F1 fan demographic information they are basing it on, places the world wide audience into quite a curious psychological grouping. In simple form: “We’ll go because they told us not to” which relates to a 14 -21 year old age group with a rebellious Holden Cawfield outlook on life.
Have you actually been to a LMP race and listened to the diesels? Sorry but they really are dull. I’ve been to Le Mans several times and the whole trip is always great, and that gig is always so much more than the sound (except the Ferraris and Astons coming into the pits on the rev limiter, a fabulous staccato). The diesels are just tyre noise. I found the F1 V8s to be so painfully noisy when I went it was off-putting, but I’m old. I like the new sound so I will be going to Silverstone. And I’m going with my son, who contrary to the current view does not have the attention span of a gnat and can actually raise his head out from his gamestation thingy and talk to me about F1
In 2010 I attended the Australian GP (my first ever GP). I got the 4 day/ 4 corners package, at first it was loud and great but by the end of the event I couldn’t stand all that noise nor the nuisance of having to wear earplugs for hours. I missed this year’s race but I am looking forward to going again next year and being able to go back home without a massive headache.
I’m getting pretty irked with the ridiculous comments about the noise. The V8 cars just had VOLUME, being so loud that it was absolutely impossible to hear anything else. F1 in 2014 is much, much more interesting than it has been for years. Personally, I like the noise they make. Having heard them in Spain for the first time, I am quite happy with the noise.
The sound sucks. That’s just a fact. The new sound isn’t going to win any new fans, so why not change it to win fans? The sound even sucks on TV. Just the opinion of a fan… and ultimately fans keep it going.
F1 fans are currently middle aged men. Perhaps the new technology will appeal to a younger demographic…
Middle aged men like me… same age as you Joe ;-). I have only heard these engines during installation start-up in the factory… hybrid sound is just too limp-wristed for my liking, but bowing to the Greens seems to be an obligation now, not a choice.
As for the younger generation of “engineers” and fans, well they were brought up too delicately… to understand naff-all but quietly whirring soulless computer-based technology powering everything, not animated lively, gurgling, spitting, hand-designed and built machines that “lived and breathed” character.
😉
Yes I am middle aged but I am looking for ways to attract a younger audience to this sport.
Judging from the feedback from youngsters I know, they would need to feel and experience the same thing (emotion) for F1, as they do for social media and the channels of comms it facilitates; SMedia can all be very easily used with not too much effort; live F1 cannot. That IMHO is the challenge
“Live” real time, direct contact with, involvement with, and access to, social media, is accessible to them 24/7, and for a budget they (or parents) can, or are prepared to, afford; F1 is not
But social media is all too easily recognised for the echo chamber it can be. What just struck me, is that our younger drivers may have grown up and grown past social media because of finding it a closed loop. Two things have affected the general internet, firstly a older generation who dreamed of electronic communication as a frontier of technical and scientific as well as social development; then the forty somethings including me who grew up understanding the promise, then the inclusion crowd, by which I mean those who have been reluctant until there was either a certain level of ease or a certain level of dependency on being savvy to these modes of speech. All these groups brought a variety of life that had formed opinions without the internet in a large but arguable degree. If you had actually grown up with the facilities of the last ten years at your disposal since your teens, and seen the wall to wall exploitation of your life commercialised by recent ventures at which world changing amounts of money have been thrown, would you give social media the respect we think it ought to command, to transform youth involvement in a sport?
I think of only one example, that finally Skype offers broadcast feed input, something I had been trying to cobble together to make those rare Skype meetings look good. But that’s the draw of the old media world. Which was what I wanted to emulate as a boy. Slick. Professional. Only I didn’t know what I wanted to say with it, only I knew the medium that instilled confidence in viewers or readers was critical to fusing any message with my life. I’ve said it before that the modern communication successes channel presentation, as tweets or posts on blogs or however, then polish their presentation, then enforce a kind of social coherency to a medium. My guess is that all of this is too restricting for truly passionate young boys and girls. I would have wanted to reject what’s on offer now, as wondrous as it is, every age does. Only with the increasing layers of technology, a good example is the phrase “stack” in web development, meaning the vertical column of interacting technologies you need to be familiar with to accomplish even a modest website, they have become increasingly deep. And increasingly difficult to approach, because we are all so intent on polishing services to try to mimic the big chandeliers of communication. I fear I just digressed into the question of how a person sets about self educating how to learn how to understand these technologies. I think it’s quite daunting. I think for example that how Microsoft works to deliver a system or website is best understood if you know their history, and what they are trying to do penance for. If you spot that trait, you spot their best aspects. I actually think Microsoft is the least cynical company out there, because it culturally folded upon itself. But all these are but fairy stories. How does one use all this technology now to change how we perceive the world? We have a abundance. If there is to be a way a new generation grasp and take for themselves a personal appreciation of a sport, will it be by helping to fill the gulf sized canyons in F1 media? Oh, broadcast spec video cameras, not whole rigs, not as you’d want it, but a GH4 fits in a coat pocket.
F1 has a monetisation problem. There’s far more to be made. The tech industry has a problem with overproduction. Because understanding the difference between why 4:4:0 and 4:4:2 feed video, and a host of other things that matter is slower than the ability of the camera companies, video and still mixed right up, to expand any market.
Now, give people access again to the paddock, with all this pocket tech, what will you get?
I don’t know, but if drivers are growing up not jaundiced to technology then inured to it, then they need to be woken up by their contemporaries.
I want to say now “PR Die, die die please die!” (I don’t make money from PR, I think PR is what you should be capable to do yourself if you have a good company) but there is a fascinating apotheosis of technology and a nadir of journalistic coverage in F1. Unlike F1, the bare technology is trivially inexpensive. Just like F1, the real costs of professionalism are in salaries and knowledge. I do dare to say that some knowledge needs to be passed on, and quick. There’s more stories to cover than you can shake a stick at, if you are interested in this sport. Why is not a new format there for Quest, whether you like that channel of not, educating younger drivers about the tech for viewers to tag along? Just do it so they are involved. If you explode the behind the scenes of modern F1 it looks like government level of organisation compared with how it was when I was a boy. Turn that cost centre into a profit centre.
I barely had to look for a possible answer: https://xkcd.com/1370/
> I actually think Microsoft is the least cynical company out there, because it culturally folded upon itself.
I think I get what you’re saying here. Once upon a time, the CEO of a major tobacco company (a smoker himself) looked me in the eye and told me he still didn’t personally believe that tobacco caused cancer. In spite of the fact that that seemed to me to be a pretty daft thing to believe, his apparent sincerity and lack of cynicism made it -much- easier for me to work with him…
Me too, and been a fan probably longer than even you Joe. But where we diverge is that i don’t think turning F1 into a semi real computer game is the way to attract younger fans. My lads are fans, but don’t like F1 having so many stupid rules and don’t like the cars being semi power stations. They want raw power and speed, and modern F1 doesn’t show that off. Neither does it help that there are so many sub series single seater classes, it doesn’t add to motorsport, and just detracts by have scattered drivers that one can’t compare as they are in different series, where they face less competition. Back in my time, I could see how good Ickx or Rindt or Cevert were, because they raced against Stewart, Brabham, Hill etc in F2, where there were different makes of car and engine to also admire. The new version of motrosport , including F1 is like the EU, everything has to be just the same grey thing, nothing individual is encouraged, or even allowed, and rules have to be increased year upon year. And then commentators wonder why young people are bored with the end product!
+1
I think things might start sounding (literally and figuratively and metaphorically) much more different when everyone gets to figure out what they can push with the new rules. I think the clarion call has rung out to sort out broadcast sound, so I expect we’ll get distinct engine notes, very soon. That might shut up the argument you could never hear over the piston noise anyhow. But forgetting that bugaboo I think the machines really will start to develop identities. It’s only normal when a huge set of new riles come īn for everyone to play it a bit safe. Even Mercedes even they I think play it quite safe. I’m really not sure at all how to say what I think of the season so far. I just know enough to bet my backside that in ten races time I shan’t be worrying how I think. I’ll know how I feel. Maybe then I’ll get grumpy. I’m not taking odds on being disappointed.
Joe, I’m an old fart, but I like the new noise, I have an engineering background.
Good
+1!
No, that’s not a fact. It’s an opinion. One you’re obviously entitled to, but there’s no accounting for taste.
😉
I happened to watch a few laps of the NASCAR race on Saturday (I tune in a few times a year to see whether the attraction continues to elude me — which it always seems to, somehow).
Anyway, I don’t know whether it was the mic placement or the mix or what, but the engines sounded… frankly bad. They may be 5.8L V8s capable of 850 horsepower, but the sound was just dull — not terribly different than a Mercedes “power unit” down the long straight at any Tilkedrome (minus the noises of turbo, tyres, and Lewis Hamilton chastising his race engineer).
Has anyone heard both a new power unit and a NASCAR V8 in the flesh? Does the sound of the big grunting NASCAR V8s just not come through on television, or are they actually a fairly dull noise?
I’ve heard the stock cars go by on the straight at Pocono, and would call the noise shattering. Really painful. I needed my ear plugs real bad and couldn’t fathom those fans who were unprotected. One reason for the big sound us that the exhaust tips come out on the passenger side of the car, rather than the tail end. I presume this is for crash safety, but DANG!
The last turbo era (early to late 80s) produced a mini-golden age of racing: fact. It had nothing to do with noise, or lack of noise; it was because the racing and personalities were fantastic. That is all we need: great racing, and let more drivers speak more freely so we get to know them, then the on track racing becomes even more engaging. The noise is just window dressing: it adds to the spectacle, but should not be confused WITH the spectacle.
Imho it’s a much ado about nothing debate. I’m looking forward to seeing/hearing it in Montreal (choosing F1 over IndyCars in Poconos) and spending an eveing with Joe.
Reminds me of once talking to a former driver in SCCA and Toyota Atlantics who said the omigod moment when he first saw an F1 race in Mosport was the braking abilities of the cars
I admit that I have never been to a Grand Prix but I have seen F1 cars driven fast (Goodwood Festival of Speed and similar such events) plus I’ve been to Le Mans several times and what has impressed me most on every occasion has been the sheer, laws-of-physics defying speed with which top end racing cars both accelerate and brake and take corners. It’s this much more than the noise that has made my jaw drop and has stayed with me. Impressive sounding as the cars were at Le Mans, watching them take the first chicane before the mulsane straight was like a trick special effect. It just didn’t seem possible! It’s just my opinion of course but if the cars were slower I could quite easily see why people would feel short changed. But since they are even more spectacular to watch now I’m baffled (excuse the pun) by the focus on exhaust noise. In any case as many have pointed out its swings and roundabouts. What we may have lost in volume we have gained in nuance and by being able to hear tyre, brake, turbo and now even crowd noise. When Ricciardo finished in Aus the elated atmosphere from Melbourne was tangible from my front room in London!
So here we are chaps, we’ve managed to get another 5 horsepower out of the engine, where would you like it? In speed own the straight, or chucked out in noise?
The engine or power unit team demand that the exhaust system imposes minimal back pressure on the turbine bit of the turbo, so exhaust gases — with enough energy in seconds to boil a kettle of water for a few cups of tea accompanied by civilised conversation — are spent.
I find it difficult to define the word “spent”. Wasted more or less suited in the old 1.5 litre turbo era when engines had waste gates to blow off surplus pressure, but for new era engines it is inappropriate. In an energy recovery system, efficiency is primary so nothing can be “wasted”, which might imply inefficiency. Spent energy is what is left when the power unit team have no purpose for it.
My guess is that 100 potential horsepower quietly exit from a new era F1 engine via the exhaust pipe as spent energy. And that is 100 free horsepower to intensify noise via the exhaust, as long as the designers do not impose back pressure on the turbo. Perhaps the regs would have to allow an extra 10kg extra mass for the car.
Personally, I don’t want more noise, or much more, from F1 cars. I like to listen to how they work.
Thank you for putting that so thoughtfully. You now have me hoping for quieter cars winning races, and thinking it might be possible from where things are now to develop them that way. Of course I’m just being a enthusiast for something like very much. (my comments on loving the drive train sounds of LMP fully predate general debate here by good year and a half at leas, I reckon. Minute I heard the new LMPs soma while back.) Your comment made me wonder if you could as simply loose the noise to reap that 100HP, and how wonderful it would be. Delicious thought, actually. Is this not a really good promise to behold, if this is even theoretically feasible? I mean these are things to look forward to. Maybe things that smaller teams can be cleverer at? This sport got too iterative. By which I man you could throw money at refinements and refine away. The best initial designs matter, but iteration to improve and improve counted for too much. Make it much less rewarding to just improve linearly, make it hard and counterintuitive as far as possible.. then I hope for genius to find a home. My thanks for a very positive thought, cheers! ~ j
I was an attendee at the Chinese GP this year. The noise issue actually made me more curious to go; just to hear it for myself. I like the new sound. I’ve heard the v8s in Singapore, and they sounded great, but after a couple of laps you get over it. The PA system was louder than the v8s anyway. The TV audio doesn’t do the new power units justice. What’s the point of going to an event to wear ear protection in order to make it quieter to avoid hearing damage? Twenty-two current cars going past, is loud, but no additonal tinnitus afterwards.
“What’s the point of going to an event to wear ear protection in order to make it quieter to avoid hearing damage? Twenty” They are a choice, not an obligation, and they’re sold, not given out. The vendors care about their profits not your ears.
Pity we shall have to wait until 2015 to hear the new F1 engines on the hill at Goodwood. Unless Bernie and the FIA perhaps agree to waive the rules for one weekend for a large public taste test perhaps? The F1 equivalent of the Pepsi challenge.
Which was famously a terrible judge of consumer taste.
I enjoy watching cycling on TV, the Giro d’Italia at the moment, and the bicycles hardly make any noise at all!
So? since when was a bicycle supposed to sound like it had an engine?
Sport can be exciting without a lot of noise.
Since when you attach bits of cardboard to the rear forks with clothes pegs so they rub on the spokes and sound like an engine 😉
Noise is wasted energy. In this era of hybrid energy-conscious strategies from automobile manufacturers, motor racing is not exempt. There are racing circuits in the UK which struggle to stay open because of local people’s objections to engine noise at race meetings. When the airline manufacturers moved to high-bypass turbofans from pure jets in the late 1960’s, the effects were overwhelmingly positive, both in terms of finances and noise pollution.
I see the whole fuss about engine noise as nothing more than a “quick! look over there!” type of sideshow, which is distracting attention from bigger issues bearing down on the sport, many of which Joe has talked about recently, including (but not limited to) too much money leaving the sport, poor promotion to anybody under the age of 60, poor viewing figures leading to teams struggling to attract sponsors etc. Those are far more important than hand-wringing over engine decibel levels.
Now that Formula One has taken a geriatric (not you Bernie!) approach to the engine noise issue, can someone now arrange a total ban on air horns at the Grand Prix.
If not possible perhaps they could locate those spectators with their infernal trumpets to a secluded section of the circuit…
I think F1 has taken a youthful step towards noise…
You gotta admit, after listening to this, it kind of makes you want it back! http://youtu.be/xKV2WmNsWRI
No, it doesn’t. Yopu may want it back but I am not bothered. What I want is the best and F1 right now is exactly that. And if some idiot ever allows F1 rot become a spec series then it will be destroyed.
Great video Tony yet because of the limitations of home audio systems, no matter how sophisticated, you don’t experience the resonance from the cars.
Perhaps the Japanese will work on this…