Romain Grosjean had been given a one race ban for causing the accident in Spa.
It is likely that Jerome d’Ambrosio will get the drive in Monza
Pastor Maldonado has been given two five-place grid penalties for Monza for a jumped start and causing a collision with Timo Glock.
joeblogsf1 
What he did was wrong. Hamilton couldn’t have done anything. Feel bad for Alonso
Wow, that’s harsh. Most years there’s contact of some kind at La Source on lap one, and while this year’s was a big one, RG didn’t seem to me to do anything beyond the pale.
7 first lap incidents in 12 races – seems fair to me.
You’re right, it is overly harsh.
That said, it’s typical of Formula One justice. The severity of the penalty is not based on WHAT he did, but rather WHO he did it to.
Does anyone honestly doubt that had Grosjean been gridded 24th and taken out both Caterhams and Marussias, he’d have received much more than a 10 spot grid penalty?
Grosjean had the bad fortune to take out the points leaders at both Ferrari and McLaren. For that sin, rather than the actual crime, he’s received a race ban.
While Formula One justice has taken great strides since the departure of Mad Max, sadly, it still has quite a distance to travel.
I am sorry to say that I think you are talking utter rubbish. Romain Grosjean made a mistake. It could have had very serious consequences. It did not. F1 got away with it. In 1994 there was an accident along the same lines involving the likes of Verstappen, Irvine, Brundle and Bernard. Irvine was banned for three races. I think justice was done. Grosjean will hopefully learn from that. This is the purpose of the penalty. It is only when a driver fails to learn that there is a real problem, and that is what I think has happened to Maldonado.
From my point-of-view, Yuji Ide lost his superlicense for less than Maldonaldo has done this year.
Didn’t the stewards initially ban Irvine for 1 race, but when Jordan appealed they extended the ban to 3 races?
If so, I wonder whether this is something Renault has considered in deciding not to challenge?
Ah we miss Eddie Irvine, there was a man who said exactly what he though in no uncertain terms. š
I agree. Fernando could easily have been killed – and very possibly would have been if the Lotus had been 2m further back on the Ferrari when it crashed across it.
Only guessing – but I think one reason Fernando sat there for as long as he did because he couldn’t believe the escape he had just had and he was letting it all sink in.
That in itself leads to a completely different discussion about driver head protection – which is possibly one of the only remaining Achilles heels of safety in F1 cars(how about building up the cockpit sides to helmet height? – for sure you would need big mirrors as a consequence but that can be dealt with in design).
I am not defending him but there is an argument that Maldonado’s jumpstart may have unsettled Grosjean to make the silly move he did and it is certainly time he (Maldonado) got at least a one race ban for any further misbehaviour
I agree, Joe. Mika Hakkinen caused a multi-car pileup at the start of the 1994 German GP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxkDeMxkexo). He was banned for one race, and yet he didn’t eliminate any championship contenders. For once, I agree with the stewards fully. We need to nip this in the bud … Grosjean needs to calm down.
Joe, we can agree to disagree about this particular penalty, but are you honestly suggesting that justice in Formula One is based solely on the offense, without regard to the team or stature of the drivers involved? ? ?
There are abundant cases of backmarkers taking out one another with no penalties at all, or minimal penalties at worst. Yet when a backmarker tangles with a top running car, they are invariably penalized, often harshly penalized.
This is not debatable, it is a fact, it is the way of Formula One justice. It’s not fair, it’s not equatable, it IS the way of the sport.
In fact, the curious example you’ve given proves the inequity of Formula One’s justice. The majority of Irvine’s penalty was NOT for his actual infraction, but for daring to file an appeal. Those who dared to appeal were often subjected to a doubled or tripled penalty – not based on the initial offense, but simply for having the temerity to file an appeal.
I concede that Formula One’s justice has moved leaps and bounds since the not-very-distant rule of Mad Max, though it clearly still has quite a distance to travel.
Yes, that is what I am suggesting. You cannot judge the current based on the past. Things have changed.
It’s what he did not who he did it to. You get the fact that if his car had contacted Alonso’s head there is an extremely high probability he would be dead or paralysed right? It was a clumsy maneuver resulting in one of the most dangerous crashes in years. Experienced drivers respect the danger going into the first corner and demonstrate some race management and patience. I wonder if the Sauber people feel the penalty was harsh?
Random, did you see where he put on wheels? LH had no chance with Grosjean’s wheels where they were. Grosjean effectively launched his car from there towards and over Alonso almost taking his head off in the process! Blooming dangerous – at least one race ban if not more, so he got off lightly in my opinion. It’s not Touring Cars.
Should have said ‘his’ wheels of course – never mind, I stand by the rest. Like Grosjean should have thought before acting!
We’re in agreement. I never suggested Grosgean wasn’t at fault. The incident clearly was his fault. It seemed completely unintentional, but entirely his fault.
My point is that same mistake made at the back of the field, taking out backmarkers, would likely have resulted in substantially less punishment. Probably no more than a 10 spot grid penalty at Monza.
My point has nothing to do with fault and everything to do with the equity of punishment in the sport. Take out a backmarker and receive a small penalty, take out a top runner, receive a large penalty.
completely agree with stewards… act of madness and not for the first time lap 1 incident for him. hope that those points will not decide championship feel sorry for Alonso, Hamiton and sauber team – what a chance for the small Swiss team wasted due very bad judgement of somebody else. Probably put him on probation for rest of the season as well. Anyway, how can Maldonado, who is on probation, can get away only with double grid penalty?
In the future, Grosjean will become a force to be reckoned with ….. but in the mean time he is F1’s new CRASH KID š¦
Im a bit in too minds on this one, i think the penalty for Grosjean is too harsh, its not like he purposefully did anything wrong, i think he just misjudged his position relative to that of Hamilton.
We’ve seen Maldonado do things much worse seemingly on purpose in the last two seasons and the punishments haven’t fitted the crime.
however it appears Lotus are not protesting it.
He has been involved in 7 first lap incidents in 12 races this season. Clearly he hasn’t learned from his mistakes and this one was pretty serious so I think this is a fair decision. Hopefully he will learn this time
Were all 7 first lap incidents Romains fault?
No but he almost killed Alonso this time, serious consequences for what could have been tragic. Fernandos lucky day.
As they say, to finish first you must first finish, Romain. A couple of feet was the difference between a close call and what could have been very serious for Alonso and others. Quite an appropriate penalty.
I so disagree Kate. Hamilton had space to move and avoid wheel to wheel contact with Grosjean. He just didn’t react. Sure, Romain was mostly at fault, but I would put it at 60/40. Just a shame the consequences involved so many cars and especially Fernando Alonso.
Well the stewards and pretty much everyone here is Spa disagrees with you.
It’s all good, just expressing my opinion. Interesting to discuss, don’t you think Lewis could have reacted to seeing his wheel interlocked with the Lotus’?
I agree that he made a huge mistake.
A mistake that has happened atleast 20 times this year with 20 drivers making bad judgements.
Then everyone should get race bans too. Maldonado 2-3, Karthakayan at least one etc.
That all of you in SPA thinks this is appropriate and not any other ban is due to the impact in the championship and who it effected. Alonso, Hamilton out.
That this minor incident cascaded to a large one was not Romains fault.
That he did a mistake is obvious and true but pure chance made the outcome to what happened.
I do agree to use larger punishiments all in all but to single out this one as worst doesn’t correspond to reality, just feelings.
No there wasn’t. At time of impact, yes there was possibly about a foot, but looking at the replay from the front, even if Lewis had moved, Grosjean would have hit him a split second later – he admits he didn’t know lewis was there and was deliberately moving towards the edge of the track. Ok, Lewis could have moved onto the grass, but you should probably ask Liuzzi for an opinion of whether that’s a good solution coming into the first corner braking zone….
[clarifying my first sentence: it should read: “No, Hamilton didn’t have room”]
So you’re saying Hamilton must go off the road? Romain himself conceded he misjudged it and was wrong – I haven’t heard anybody say anybody else was at fault except for Romain other than you?
Grosjean was coming from behind Hamilton so Hamilton wouldn’t have needed to concede space. Fair penalty. Maldonado should have received the same sanction.
Hamilton had enough room to move over and avoid interlocking wheels. There was space,he just didn’t react.
I guess they make you a steward.
Grosjean created the situation that brought the two cars close together so it was up to him to ensure contact wasn’t made. Hamilton, quite reasonably, just maintained a straight line. Regardless of whether Hamilton had a little bit more space to give, the responsibility to avoid contact was not his. It was Grosjean’s and he openly accepts it. Why is it so hard for you to grasp?
You are right, Grosjean was to blame, but I just think that Hamilton could have used the room he had to avoid him. Not hard to grasp!
Don’t have time to be a steward, it would incur a stop/go on my surfing time.
Reality check, come on folks, don’t get to offended by an opinion.
Be happy. (-:
So now they are talking about enclosed cockpits or cages again. What do you think?
A rubbish idea
Well done – I totally agree. There will be some debate on this in your blog, you can be sure.
Glad to see your opinion on this Joe. Agree completely.
Which is more: the cash PM brings to the team, or the cash he has lost them in wcc points over the year?
Pastor Maldonado needs to eventually get banned too…How many times does he have to cause “issues” with other drivers before a driver gets hurt…RG should take this race ban as a time to reflect on racing…I bet he will grow up and get better…
I like him but he’s been involved in something like 7 first lap incidents out of 12 races so in that context the ban seems less harsh.
I am a little uncomfortable at this. Maldonado has made some questionable moves, think back to this race last year swerving at Hamilton on the run down to Eau Rouge…
I won’t comment either way on the rights or wrongs of Grosjean sitting out a race but the application of penalties is inconsistent. They have done Grojean for ‘extreme breach of regulations likely to cause injury’ or some such words. So what has Maldonado been doing on occasion?
what was the difference in Maldonaldo moving and the last red going out – looked like he had judged it perfectly to me but obviously not.
That’s what I thought too. Maybe there’s a slight “delay” when the lights go out and it’s OK to start? What is the precise definition of a light “going out” anyway?
Not sure if this is the case in F1 but in athletics you can’t react to the gun in less than 0.1 seconds as it’s not possible for humans to react in that time, so it’s quite possible a similar rule applies with the jump starts. I thought it was quite obvious in real time that he had jumped the start though.
This is why they have sensors in the road.
Thats not quite how I saw it. His machine was fully ahead of his grid slot by the time the last red had gone out. But my advantage was to see it in a slowmo replay.
Oh and one other thing. The red lights come on one at a time but all go out together…
From the on-board on Lewis’s car the wheels seemed interlocked, so he couldn’t avoid contact without driving onto the grass – which catches Grosjean under the rule of having to leave him a car-width.
Really lucky nobody was hurt, but great for the championship š
Have to admit, I’m in the “excessively harsh” camp on this, Grosjean’s mistake, yes but I think the punishment is more for the unforeseeable and severe consequences (elimination of two championship contenders and effectively the entire Sauber team).
Taken in isolation I don’t think the actual offence is any worse than we’ve seen from people like Maldonado this year. First corner is just simultaneously the hardest place to be sure to get it right and yet also the place with the harshest consequences for everyone concerned.
Stewards of course will have access to telemetry, so perhaps there’s a solid case that Grosjean was moving too fast anyway given the tiny space he was in, etc, etc.
French commentary team will be in tears, they were all insisting that it was just a racing incident and a 50/50, then again I suspect they collect up every bit of leftover tyre rubber and carbon fibre from the French drivers to put on their altar.
I think it’s more to do with the fact it’s his 7th first lap incident in 12 races this season. Unacceptable for this calibre of competition.
Agreed. See GP+ fr our opinion about Maldo. We think he should have a race ban as well.
Cannot agree more Joe, and in my mind he deserved it the first time he did at Spa last year when he purposely hit lewis’ car… The same for his Perez incident this year at Monaco.
Someone just tagged a picture of Pastor on the Sauber facebook page as ‘Andrea De Cesaris’ hah š
Andea was commonly known as deCrasheris, I remember.
Spot the similarity with Maldo.
I honestly do not see any real connection beyond the fact that they both have had accidents. The causes of those accidents are not similar
There were two separate moves by Grosjean, one that brought him alongside Hamilton, and then a further nudge to the right that did the damage that led to the accident.
Hamilton didn’t have a lot of time for evasive moves, then he was entangled with the Renault and basically a passenger after that.
Everyone was lucky, it could have been far worse, but the punishment needed to point up to the miscreant what everyone else is thinking, and it fit the crime perfectly.
How long Sir Frank is going to keep Pastor Maldonado is a moot point, his tally of car damage alone must run to a few euros, and lost points are going to affect their end of season rewards.
Good to see Jenson get it together in style.
I wonder if Maldonado is the F1 equivalent of Colin McRae? Pastor does seem to get the maximum out of the equipment when he keeps it together. Dave Richards was prepared to fund Colin’s learning curve because when he kept it out of the ditches and trees he was fast. Of course rallying is different in so far as spectators and co driver aside, only one person and team pays the price when it goes wrong.
McRae didn’t drive into others though….. if he got anoyed… twice.. Perez being the latest example. Also McRae made mistakes, Maldo also does, but also does stupid things.
And finally McRae actually won a championship. People talk about McRae favourably because he won.
Maldo is still nothing more than Sato. At the end of the day Maldo hasn’t achieved anything yet and hence it is still ‘will he?’. He could improve but more likey not.
I’m not expecting anything… for sure
I think that Maldonado won the Spanish Grand Prix this year…
………showing the ultimate in concentration and sustained fast, faultless driving.
Weird – he’s able to do that once, so why does he behave like a Formula Ford cowboy the rest of the time?
A psychoanalyst would have fun with that.
I didn’t say that I agree with some of Maldonado’s methods, for sure the latin temperament / red mist does Maldonado no favours, but when he keeps it together… Sadly some have already succeeded through making F1 a contact sport on occasion and presumably he’s watched the footage.
Whilst Colin McRae had a famous (in rallying circles) father and some excellent results in lower formulae that’s still a lot of faith and cash when someone regularly modifies your expensive group A/8 cars in the British Open and then world rallying. Dave Richards could only have made the decision on observed talent, not hindsight of a certain world championship.
Anyway, my main point was team managers / owners do invest in perceived talent, it’s easier to make a fast driver consistent than a slow driver faster. Let’s hope Williams can remove the rough edges and then we’ll know for certain.
I’ll admit it, I was thinking of this penalty before it was announced. A BBC article lists it as Grosjean’s 7th lap 1 incident from 12 races. I can see why everyone was going for the inside, as it is probably the fastest line on lap 1. But, here there were potentially much worse consequences that could have befallen a driver, Fernando Alonso in particular. I think this is why the penalty has been given.
Perhaps we will see Jerome D’Ambrosio driving now in Monza?
I’m glad that the stewards finally made an example of somebody for squeezing people off the road at the start. Grosjean certainly isn’t the only driver to do it (e.g. Vettel on Button in Suzuka), but it was only a matter of time before there was a multi car shunt as a consequence of it, and Grosjean has paid the price.
There was also very little that Lewis could have done in my opinion. Their wheels were interlocked, so even if Lewis had backed off his front wheel would have hit Grosjean’s rear.
Joe,
World feed said the stewards would look at Vettel\Schumacher pit close call. I assume that as nothing has been reported it was considered what the drivers were saying a āracing incidentā. However it seems like the perfect time to consider the implications of someone trying to pass a car while the car being passed intends entering the pits.
That could have been ugly and passing it off as a āracing incidentā leaves the possibility open for worse version of the same events to happen on another day. Surely it is time to have a rule no attempt to pass to the pit entrance side of the track in that area of the circuit.
I am not suggesting hammering Vettel, maybe he should be thanked for outlining the danger and then making a rule adjustment. Sure it should be common sense for all drivers, but apparently Vettel lacked it in this instance and a rule makes it easier for viewers to understand why a driver, in the future, is punished for the same crime.
It is worse because Vettel reportedly discussed pitting on the radio with his team and they said do the opposite of Schumacher, suggesting that he should never have been that close in the first place. Vettel knew Schumacher could go in, in which case Schumachers position was his, if Schumacher stayed out, Vettel needed to access the pit and so he should have stayed behind. Vettels common sense apparently is still on vacation. Crashing hard in the pit entrance and blocking it off could have red flagged the race! For what?
Read GP+ for the full story
It would have been useful to see the crash from Grosjean’s car. Definitely his fault, It was a big move across the track and he was guessing where Hamilton was. But probably thrown a bit by Maldonado jumping the start from the position directly in front of him, I’d guess fro his seat it looked like there was more space around him than was actually the case.
Even her admitted that it was his fault, so all those who think they know better are talking horse sh*t.
Lets not talk about horses again!!! LOL (-;
If anyone deserves a race ban it is Maldonado if you go on cumulative behavior this season. His money speaks but it speaks stupidly. Grosjean’s “mistake” was a racing move and a ban is undeserved in my view. If it had happened at the back in the field there would have been no ban. Taking out FA was the trigger for a more harsh penalty. By contrast Maldonado’s actions were those of a person trying to bull his way through without regard for his fellow competitors or race rules. “My hand slipped off the clutch at the start” yea we believe that one Pastor.
F1 rules from lottery tires, penalties for engine and transmission changes to driver rules today are just sad.
I am struggling to understand how Hamilton could of driven out of that? What? Drive on the grass? At over 200k/hr with a hairpin coming up? Hit the brakes? Grosjean had his right front buried into the side pod – would of ripped the wheels off anyway. Look on the bright side Renault fans – both cars might make lap 2 at Monza!!!
Poor pastor seems to get such stick but he’s never been the cause of a pile-up. All his incidents are isolated crashes or tit for tat nonsense.
I like him, he’s fast and unpredictable and prone to crash. F1 needs a character like him.
The problem is that the way he is going he WILL cause a big crash sooner or later.
Guilty before… before the crime is even been committed?
Anyway Joe, is it fair to say ‘sooner or later’ most drivers will cause a big crash?.
I think ‘the way he is going’ is to become a lot cleaner. Enjoy the madness while it lasts!
For you to think he’s liable and a risk, how many times is he going to need to use his car as a weapon/battering ram? he’s done it twice that I can remember without even thinking.
Now, I may be looking at it from the wrong angle but this is what I disagree with in the Grosjean ban.
Yes, Grosjean caused a first corner massacre (the likes of which we’ve not seen for a little while) but the first corner is obviously a very challenging situation for any driver – a melee of cars whizzing around you where being a yard out of place is terminal.
By contrast, we’ve seen incidents this year of not giving enough room which haven’t caused such mass destruction but which have been equally stupid and yet have happened between two cars isolated from the rest of the pack – off the top of my head, Vettel moving across on Karthikeyan in Malaysia, or Maldonado clattering Hamilton which I think was Valencia.
Punishing consequences rather than actions seems somehow cruel.
But then, it was always thus and always shall be. In the same way that “attempted murder” carries much softer punishment than “murder” (and there are no Noble prizes for “attempted physics”).
Anyhow, the stewards know their business an awful lot better than I do and have access to information I will never see, so fair enough. Grosjean out for a race, potential wildcard drive for someone (Barrichello? D’Ambrosio? Alguesuari? Alesi?) and hopefully a lesson learnt by all concerned.
They were punishing the action, not the consequence.
The stewards should not have made reference to the impact on “leading championship contenders” as this suggests the consequences being punished rather than the action. I do agree with the ban for his actions however.
In which case they could have worded the statement better and omitted the ridiculous ‘title contenders’ crap, that just stinks of ‘you pissed of the wrong people Romain’.
Once again I fear you have no idea what you are talking about.
See http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/articles/belgium/Pages/sunday-2.aspx
“The stewards regard this incident as an extremely serious breach of the regulations which had the potential to cause injury to others. It eliminated leading championship contenders from the race.”
Or in other words, bash into an HRT and it’s funny, bash into a Ferrari and you’re banned.
I think you are reading far too much into this.
I have a cynical answer to punishing serial first lap crashers: Penalty should be starting the next race 100 yards behind the last car on the grid. This will eliminate more first lap shenanigans. Less cynical idea is starting them from the pitlane…
I quick question if I may…
I’ve thought this for a while Joe and I’d love your opinion on it?
On balance I feel RG’s penalty is deserved and correct but I feel for him, it was clearly just a bad error with big consequences. However like others I feel at times Maldonado has further overstepped the mark – particularly in his efforts to make contact with other drivers and been more deserving of a ban.
In short does Pastor’s status as a ‘pay driver’ protect him from the threat of a race ban as the FIA/Bernie do not wish (quite reasonably) to damage Williams’ revenue streams and future as a F1 outfit, would the money from Venezuela still be due if Pastor was ever to be banned, is it a can of worms no one wishes to open?
I feel I must at this make clear at this point I like Pastor, I think he’s a talent I simply think he takes his emotions on to the track too much and is at times a danger to himself and those around him, I am in no way asking for Pastor to be banned because RG was today but think at times he has been very lucky to escape such sanctions.
Bernie and the FIA are not a single entity.
Hehe, all in what you don’t say, Joe…
Yes the boy’s a tad over enthusiastic, but Romain will have to work a lot harder if he’s going to prize the Crash Kid award out of Pastor’s twitchy hands. Maldonado is the true master of the unprovoked t-bone. He can conjure up a crash from the safest positions, first corner, last corner, anywhere inbetween. It’s a strange kind of genius. š
It’s worth remembering that Grosjean was a “crash kid” in his first go in F1. Coincidentally, at Spa in 2009 on the first lap, entering Le Combes, he took out Button when he was leading the championship that year. That started a chain-reaction that also resulted in binning Hamilton’s race.
The race ban *is* harsh, but I think it’s deserved.
As for Maldonado, I’m just sick of the guy. He keeps throwing away points for himself and Williams. He’s fast, but so what if it comes to naught?
The stewards had to do something,grosjean had severn first lap incidents this season. Hamilton’s car could have flipped up next to the wall and alonso an innocent casualty could have come off much worse, i dread to think, it all seems to happen in the heat of the moment.
Banzai move by Grosjean narrowly missing Alonsos cockpit. Very scary moment when Alonso was not responding, the fact that he walked away should not excuse Grosjean’s ‘green’ driving style. The race is seldom won at the start get through the first corner you Numpty. Good call by the stewards.
I don’t think you have any right to call Grosjean a Numpty. Kindly keep polite.
Joe, I love your site and the straight talking… which made me smile as I read through these comments and see you suggesting that some commentors are talking horsesh*t and then suggesting that we can’t describe Grosjean as a Numpty… it is impolite!
My first Monday morning laugh.
My world, my rules!
š
What’s a Numpty?
Numpty =
http://m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=numpty
In the case of Maldonado I am wondering what kind of ‘reprimand’ he will get from his boss @ Williams? Any idea Joe?
Grosjean admitted fault after viewing the footage. It seems he just doesn’t understand the size and position of his car – it’s like a learner driver who has no concept of where his vehicle ‘sits’ at close quarters. His crime is simply not being good enough yet and unfortunately in the close opening packs that makes him a liability to others safety.
Maldanado on the other hand just seems to know where his car is and doesn’t care – he seems to have taken on all the worst aggressive misjudgment of both the rookie Hamilton and vettel crash kid mentality and turned it into an art form.
In other words grosjean cares but doesn’t get it. Pastor gets it but doesn’t care…
If Grosjean has been banned for a race, why are Lotus allowed to put someone else in the car as a replacement? Surely if someone is banned from a race then there should be one less car entering that race?
It’s a driver offence, so you punish the driver not the team. They shouldn’t miss out on valuable constructor points.
Hi Joe,
I’ve read reports elsewhere (BBC and Sky) that Romain Grosjean is the first driver to be banned from a GP since Michael Schumacher in 1994. However, I seem to recall Felipe Massa being banned and replaced by Heinz-Harald Frentzen at Sauber for the 2002 US Grand Prix – could you confirm if that’s correct please?
Thanks!
Daniel
Massa was rested by the team, rather than being banned by the FIA, as I recall. He had been given a grid penalty and the team reckoned it was better to use a different driver.
The last driver banned was actually Mika Hakkinen, who was not allowed to race in Hungary in 1994 after casing a crash in Hockenheim. However, the last driver to SERVE a ban was Michael Schuamcher, who was banned for two races at the British Grand Prix. The team disputed the ban and it was not served until after a court of appeal, so Schumacher ended up missing Italy and Portugal.
That year Eddie Irvine was also banned after causing a crash in Brazil. The Jordan team appealed the ban and lost and it was increased to three races.
Nigel Mansell was banned from racing in Spain in 1989 after taking out Ayrton Senna AFTER being black-flagged.
I think Grosjean will learn from this, he has accepted the mistake yesterday and even apologised. Thats far more than Maldonado has even done. Not once have I heard him accept responsibilty for any of the thoughtless accidents he has been involved in in F1 or GP2
I agree there should be a tougher stance but correct me if im wrong but wasnt Maldonado banned for life from Monaco in GP2. A lot of good that done him! Since that hes ignored red flags, nearly taken out marshals, jumped starts and deliberately tried to take out opponents. Thats aside from all the accidents he could have prevented if he just used his head a little bit and backed out and saved it for the next corner.
I think he is incredibly arrogant and I am concerned that he will have dire consequences for F1. I quite like F1 at the moment, the racing is good and I think a good balance is being struck with the tyres and technology. The last thing I want to see is a over the top reaction by the FIA that fundamentally changes the sport because Maldonado has killed someone. Why dont they just deal with him now and save having to deal with a bigger problem later!
Grosjean had acres of space in front of him and the accident seemed to me to be a consequence of a poorly executed “Schumacher chop” (now adopted by Vettel and most other drivers who end up on pole). He deserves his ban but I think they should have cracked down on the “chop” years ago, it was inevitable this would happen sometime.
Tim.
Hard to be an F1 fan and not be seriously pissed off when someone takes ridiculous chances like that and endangers the lives of others. If that standard of driving in F1 was the norm you would have casualties for sure. These guys know if you don’t make the corner then you’ll be broad siding cars turning ahead, Where was Lewis supposed to go?
A lot of F1 people know Fernando dodged a bullet today and are saying so. From a selfish fan perspective there is already a sizable hole in the sport due to the loss of Kubica in his prime, can you imagine how interesting things would be if this overly anxious kid had seriously injured Alonso (which he came centimeteres from doing – paralysis or fatal – see Alonso’s in car footage ).
I wonder how many lives that cat would have left if Boullier was’nt his manager? (never understood the team manager/driver manager thing, conflict of interest much? amateur aspect to F1’s management) Grosjean is underperforming that car and is getting dangerously desperate.
He deserved the ban and I hope he learns from it as I think he has the potential to be a top class F1 driver.
Glad to see that the FIA have finally banned someone for dangerous driving, it’s been a long time coming and it’s a good message to send out that such driving is not acceptable and should hopefully act as a deterrant in the future. Grosjean could so easily have caused a fatality in that crash and as much as I like him as a driver 7 incidents out of 12 on the first lap is too much and hopefully this will help rein him in and he’ll come back a better driver. It’s just a shame that Maldonado didn’t get banned as well, although I think he’s probably in a last chance saloon.
Although it’s arguably taken the near-death of another driver for the FIA to take this action, I’d much rather this shocks them into acting than waiting until a fatality occurs to do something. I dare say that had Alonso been killed in that crash we’d have been looking at another Senna moment and the ramifications for the sport would have been huge.
A fair penalty of course. This kind of over aggressive defending must be discouraged, especially at the start when the potential for multi car pile ups is so much higher. Romain simply misjudged how far Lewis was alongside him. Those who say that Hamilton should have moved over should remember that we can see more from the high mounted on board camera than Lewis can from the cockpit. He would have known that he was close to the track edge but not exactly how close. Moving further right would have been risky, I think Lewis was entitled to think that Romain would have stopped coming across, Lewis also couldn’t have backed off as Romain had moved so far over that this would have simply resulted in his front wheel hitting the rear of the Lotus. Basically Lewis had a couple of inches to avoid this crash, and Grosjean had the whole width of the track to play with!
It has been a while since we have seen anyone get banned, I seem to remember Irvine’s ban, mentioned above starting as a one race ban, then becoming three after the team appealed the penalty. I think it’s time someone recieved a proper penalty, the driving standards seem to be heading downwards. No doubt as the drivers feel safer than they are in their high sided cockpits. The footage from Alonso’s on board was really scary, hopefully the drivers will take note.
Pastor Maldonado’s season seems to be going from bad to worse! It’s hard to think of a less impressive race from anyone. His Belgian GP basically consisted of,
1, Take grid position (3 places further back than it should have been, due to blocking penalty)
2, Jump the start earning a 5 place grid drop for the next race.
3, Spin at first corner.
4, rejoin race behind safety car and crash into Timo Glock, earning another 5 place grid penalty for the next race.
Not good is it? As has already been mentioned above, This run of missed points scoring opportunities is really hurting William’s constructors standing. They are 6 points behind Force India in eigth place, and perhaps should be challenging Sauber for sixth. I would like to know what the difference is between finishing sixth and eighth in terms of prize money, and wether this is off set by the money Pastor brings?
We’re all very quick to forget that Maldonado is the only man outside the top four teams to have taken a victory this year.
Inconsistent? Yes. Crashtastic? Yes. Race-winner? Well… yes.
It;s easy to forget when he hasn’t scored a point since, Williams had a very good car in Spain, and Pastor made the best of it….but his form has been terrible since then. One good day does not off set 10 bad ones in F1.
Still seems very harsh to me – it was wheel to wheel contact (ie: Only Grosjean only moved a wheel width too far instead of chopping another drivers’s nose off)
At fault yes – but 1 race ban?
Seems very strange to give an honest error of judgement a 1 race ban – when last year Maldnado’s deliberate swipe only received a 5 grid drop instead of the ban it deserved.
Kind of amazed we haven’t seen more start line carnage this year though (Apart from a few lost nose cones)
There has been an enormous amount of darting about at race start – and there will be bigger accidents than this when tyres touch. (Ralf Schumacher@ Melbourne style)
I think thats just been luck – and bans like this wont do anything to anything to address the risk of starting 24 open wheel cars with 24 aggressive drivers.
For the Spa start – such a short piece of track funnelling into a hairpin to cause a lot of carnage – why don’t they just use the GT start/finish on the other side?
Because it is not opposite the pits.
Wasn’t there a GP where the start was different from the finish? Memory not bringing it back. Indycar at Mid Ohio does this. Of course the highest price seats are across from pits and S/F so there’s another reason to keep it there.
I thought Monza used to (Or still does) have a different finish line to the start line – was it to prevent getting an easy draft on the last lap?
“Because it is not opposite the pits.” – Aren’t there pits on both sides?
Anderstorp š Swedish GP
Carnage going into La Source… or carnage going into Eau Rouge……. And yes I know it used to be… but cars are safer and driving is more gp2ish.
True – we’re probably due for a wreck there as well as drivers get braver and braver 2 wide into Eau Rouge. (In years gone by you might almost have relied on driver self preservation )
I wonder whats better for safe starts – high speed or low speed corners?
At least they can funnel into a high speed corner- and any wreck wont take out the guys in front.
From a standing start the speeds should be a fraction lower too.
The only issue I have with this is that Maldonado seems more of a danger by virtue of being very aggressively reckless in his driving, and has yet to receive a ban. Grosjean’s mistakes had a kind of naive innocence to them – a mistake made from inexperience. Pastor’s is because he just doesn’t give a damn.
So I think Pastor really deserves a ban for the same reason Romain got one – an enforced time out to consider his actions and how the paddock feels about them.
I don’t agree with a full suspension but that’s what the stewards decided. Anyway, now that I’m reading that D’Ambrosio will race next race, I remembered that during the qualifying a group of spectators held a banner saying: “D’Ambrosio Free Agent”. They must be happy now.
What about Liuzzi in Monza last year? An over enthusiastic mistake led to big consequences but he got no ban.
With Maldonado thinking he can deliberately crash into whomever he wants, not to mention Hamilton and Massa being magnetically attracted to each other last year, this just seems a bit of a joke.
Punishing for actions rather than consequences? Bullshit. As if this would *never* happen with 24 drivers piling into a hairpin whilst hammering KERS.
Go and look at the Liuzzi accident again, you clearly do not understand what happened.
Joe…
If this accident was back in the 1960’s (I know people would have probably died) how do you think the problem with Grosjean and Maldonado would have been taken care of?
We do not live in the 1960s and so it is difficult to answer that
Point taken….sorry
There has been very little mention anywhere of the role that Kobayashi’s slow start (combined with Maldonado’s banzai getaway) had in bunching up the field to the right of the track. I was somewhat surprised, as smoke poured out his car at the very front of the grid, that the start went ahead as scheduled – some sort of incident was foreseeable in that context (not to question the penalty or Grosjean’s ultimate culpability for it).
We’ve seen a lot of fluctuation of form (and attitudes to drivers) this year than ever: only a few weeks ago, Grosjean was being lauded for apparently shading Kimi (though in fact the latter has been arguably been consistently impressive all year – he’s actually closer to the championship lead without having won a race than others who have won more than once); Maldonado was finally seen as the ‘real deal’ after all after winning Williams’ first race in years; and Button was being condemned by all and sundry as he flounderd about in 16th place.
Fast forward a few weeks and Maldonado has trashed just about every car he’s sat in since Spain (how much is he bringing to the team compared with how much they have lost in prize and sponsorship money from not scoring points, quite aside from his repair bills?); Grosjean is a ‘dangerous driver’ who has apparently been walking the fine line of a penalty for some time, and Button, having clearly worked out what the problem was, is able to dominate again. Nothing predicatable this year!
It looks like we are scraping the nerve here. Maybe RG’s punishment is going to set a sort of new precedent in FIA history. I can’t remember the FIA slapping a driver with a 1 race ban, not even after the incident (not sure if it was Melbourne) which caused the FIA to lower the noses. If my memory is not at fault (sorry, I can’t check, am in the office….shhh), in that accident the driver’s helmet was much closer to catastrophy than this time.
I think the punishment is a bit harsh, but deserved. I am sure RG can recover from that because he’s a great talent. My jury is still off regarding PM. But I am starting to think that he lacks common sense.
I would like to ask all of you if anyone thinks that this years noses are still much too high. LH pushes RG which takes off after jumping on SP. Maybe with a much lower nose RG would have got under SP’s gearbox. This time it was not wheel-to-wheel contact which caused a take-off. I think we should consider this before mandating canopies.
RG has got his just desserts. Motor racing is dangerous enough without the kind of reckless manouvering that he perpetrated yesterday. He endagered the lives of himself, Hamilton, Alonso and Perez. Many folks say that the one race ban is harsh, well I don’t think so. Seems that the stewards saw the same incident that I did.
This is not a sin of youthfullness, I seem to remember a couple of years ago, Rubino being shoved almost into the wall by Schumi. He was forced on to the grass but avoided an accident. Cant remember Shumi’s penalty for that.
It is a sin of youthfulness. Schumacher is doing what many drivers before him have done. He has become more blooby-minded in his “old age” because he is frustrated that the younger generation is able to beat him. The same thing has happened many times in the past with older drivers.
Sorry but I think you just made my point for me Joe.
Am surprised to learn that Maldonado jumped the start. It certainly looked that way when it happened. But then I watched it frame-by-frame, and I reluctantly had to admit that the video showed that he made a perfect start. Perfect as in “nearly zero reaction time”, which told me he got lucky and guessed right.
I don’t like the guy, and was more-than-prepared to see that he did indeed jump it… but that’s not what the video showed. I assume the stewards made their decision based on data from electronic sensors that are more precise than appearances on video can be.
According to Gary Anderson on the BBC website the jump start may not have been entirely Maldonado’s fault. Apparently the bite point was set incorrectly (due to lack of track time) and as he was holding the car with the clutch slipping slightly it suddenly bit as a result of the carbon surfaces heating up, at which point he had little choice but to go. Best read it for yourselves for the proper explanation here http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19465187!
Tim.
…having posted that, here is the explanation from the team (courtesy of Planet-F1)!
“Q: Pastor jumped the start. Was there a technical glitch that resulted in him moving before the lights went out?
MG: Pastor jumped the start as his fingers slipped from the clutch paddle by mistake.”
Thanks for the link. That makes it clear that what appeared to be a lucky perfect start wasn’t because of a lucky guess but because of something else.
I still am left to guess that the stewards have access to data from sensors that are more precise than are video images… because the video evidence available to me shows that he made a better-than-humanly-possible perfect start. (I am not predisposed to view things with a pro-Maldonando tilt.)
Unfortunately for him, if a driver reacts faster than a certain amount after the lights go out, it still counts as a jump-start, to allow for human reaction time. Thus lucky guessing is not allowed!
I’m not sure exactly where the cut-off is. I think I once read it was a tenth of a second, which seems a wee bit long to me given how much faster than the norm these guys’ reaction times must be.
One can still get a lucky guess. Electricity has a certain speed. If the light goes out and you go a fraction after that it is not a jumped start.
On my TV, that’s what he appeared to do: the lights were out when he started moving. The camera angle was less than optimal… but still… when looked at closely, it didn’t appear to be even debatable. (I would have been pleased to find him guilty but could find no reason to do so.)
Do you know if they have other sensor data they use in deciding such things? Or are they looking at video like everybody else?
That I *can* answer, both from memory and my long Google session earlier.
Since the late 90s, each grid slot has a jump-start detector under it, which detects any movement of the transponders on the car (the same ones that are used for timing purposes). I would imagine they use both that and also video to back it up.
Hmmm, I may have to retract what I said about lucky guessing not being allowed due to reaction time being factored in, then.
However I’m sure I’d read about this reaction time factor in the past (in fact I thought I’d read it on grandprix.com back when you were involved, Joe), but having waded through just about every FIA document I can find to no avail, and Googled ’til I’m fit to bust, I’ve had no luck worth talking about. The best I can come up with is that:
1. They have such a rule in athletics, and it is indeed 0.1 seconds,
2. A guy in some Youtube comments (oh yes, a primary source!) said that back in 2005 ITV did a feature on Charlie Whiting, during which he explained how a jump start is judged and that reaction time is taken into account. The commenter concerned also claims to have worked for the FIA from the late-90s to 2003, and suggested that although there was probably a regulation for it somewhere, it might just be one of those unwritten rules…
Or maybe I just read the athletics thing somewhere and got terminally confused.
“Unfortunately for him, if a driver reacts faster than a certain
amount after the lights go out, it still counts as a jump-start, to
allow for human reaction time. Thus lucky guessing is not allowed!”
Man, that’s a bit much. Why the draconian brain-police measures? If the penalty for jumping the start is adequately stout, I don’t see how lucky guesses would be a problem.
I might well be wrong on this as it turns out; see my reply to Joe up above if you haven’t already.