Vettel and Ferrari – more thoughts

On Sunday Sebastian Vettel was asked in front of the world about Ferrari. The question was carefully phrased – deliberately so – by my pal Dan Knutson, who has been around long enough to know how racing folk can perpetrate deniable falsehoods. Could Seb set the record straight, Dan asked, “Is there any arrangement, agreement, talk between you and your people and Ferrari?” A pretty catch-all question.

The reply was as follows:

“No, there’s nothing, nothing to tell you, nothing I’ve signed. Nothing has changed. I don’t know where it came from. I don’t read much, so it’s quite a surprise when you get to the circuit and get all these questions. Nothing to report. As I said, I can’t be happier at the moment, I’m very happy… Actually, there’s one thing I would like to say about this. It’s hard to speak to every single person in the team, so if there’s – sorry to say – some bullshit in the press, obviously there might be some concerns back in the factory. I’m 100 percent behind them as I feel they’re 100 percent behind me. Therefore I want to get this straight: there’s nothing to report and I’m very happy at Red Bull Racing.”

Ferrari is making similar noises at the moment, saying that the whole idea is in the minds of some of the F1 media. Perhaps it is. Vettel’s denial is fairly comprehensive. If he is lying, then he is doing it comprehensively.

So why is there a story at all? The answer is that there are sources that know Ferrari inside and out and some of them have been 100 percent reliable for longer than Sebastian Vettel has been on this earth. The source I know is so confident that he says that the deal was agreed as long ago as September 2011. So the question boils down to whether a totally trusted and proven source is more reliable than a racing driver and a team, both of whom have good reasons not to tell the truth.

When one encounters such stories it is always worth remembering that F1 people do have a passion for pork pies at moments of stress. I am often reminded of this when I pass the bar of the Sheraton at Charles de Gaulle Airport in Paris. Back at the end of 1996 I was wheeling a baggage trolley past the window of the Sheraton bar when someone inside caught my eye. I knew the hairline and I carefully turned my trolley around and made a second pass, taking a second look, but without drawing attention to myself. Inside were Alain Prost and various members of what one day would become British American Racing. At the time Prost was tipped to be about to take over Ligier and looking for money and the BAR gang was looking for a team. Everyone denied it but I knew. Because I had been there. You should never have a secret meeting next to a window!

Anyway, back to the present day. On the face of it a Vettel-Ferrari deal makes no real sense in the short term. Sebastian is winning with Red Bull Racing. Why would he throw himself up against Fernando Alonso at Ferrari? Why would Ferrari want to destabilise its primary asset; And why would Vettel want to walk away from Adrian Newey? The argument I have heard told is that Vettel will soon have won three consecutive titles with Red Bull Racing and might want a new challenge.

Do racing drivers get bored of winning to such an extent that they make lives difficult for themselves? No. That argument does not work for me. They move somewhere because they want something more than they have. Jenson Button won the World Championship with Brawn GP and then moved to McLaren because he figured, quite rightly, that the team he had been with would not do it again. He also knew that Lewis Hamilton was not unbeatable, the two having raced against and alongside one another since they were both very young. So Button was moving to McLaren because he knew he would be in a more competitive situation; would have a better financial arrangement; and that being competitive and beating Lewis would increase his value. So that does make sense, even if at the time it did not.

In this case, Vettel can stay at Red Bull for as long as he likes, he can be paid plenty of money. He can keep himself sharp with team-mates who are hungry and while he might like to one day be seen in Ferrari red, and might perhaps dream of beating Alonso (who gets a little edgy when he has a very fast team-mate), it would be easier for Seb to bide his time and then maybe try to convince Adrian Newey to go to Ferrari with him, to crown both of their fabulous careers. Adrian is not a man who has ever shown any desire to follow drivers around, nor has he ever wanted to move to Italy, despite being heavily courted on several occasions. He knows that it is his cars that make champions, rather than the drivers dragging his inventions to world titles.

Ferrari has been down this road before. A generation ago the team was so keen to sign John Barnard that it TWICE paid to set up engineering companies in England so that it could enjoy the benefits of JB’s abilities. The first was called Ferrari Guildford Technical Office (GTO) and operated from 1987. It produced the ground-breaking Ferrari 640 (with which Nigel Mansell won races in 1989) and its development the 641 (with which Alain Prost challenged for the World Championship in 1990). Barnard had departed by then, lured away to Benetton with big promises but he soon fell out with Flavio Briatore and after working on a secret project designed to lure Toyota into F1, he rejoined Ferrari in 1993 with a new technical office in Surrey called Ferrari Design and Development (FDD). This designed F1 Ferraris for several years, but success was somewhat limited and in the end it was agreed that this was not the right answer and Jean Todt set about building a different kind of Dream Team, featuring Rory Byrne and Ross Brawn. Even then it took a lot of work before Ferrari team finally became dominant. Would Ferrari do the same thing again to get Newey? Back in the early 1990s Barnard was the master of innovations that no-one in Italy knew about. These days there is much more knowledge around and Newey’s expertise is hemmed into a relatively small, but hugely important envelope.

Ferrari might be smarter to argue that F1 needs less aerodynamics and thus negate the Newey Factor by a political route, or perhaps offer Adrian a deal by which they will NOT go down that path if he agrees to join them!

Right now, however, Alonso is 31 and is at the height of his considerable powers. He is working diligently to turn Ferrari into a winning team. He says that he does not care who he has as a team-mate, but know one thinks that the leopard will have changed his spots. Fernando showed weakness when at McLaren in 2007 and that reputation has stayed with him. His contract with Ferrari runs until the end of the 2016 season, four years from now. This was signed early in 2011. Most top drivers tend to ease off a little in their mid-thirties, and they make up for the lost speed by using their experience to keep them attractive. Michael Schumacher did this with Ferrari but even then the team shovelled him out of the way at the age of 37, back in 2006. So Ferrari knows that by the end of his contract the chances are that Fernando will want different things in life, particularly if he wins a few titles in the next couple of years.

So one is at Ferrari and looking into the long-term future, one can see that the Alonso generation, featuring Fernando, Kimi Raikkonen, Jenson Button, Felipe Massa, Heikki Kovalainen and Timo Glock will likely be fading out of F1 by 2016. There is a clear gap between these guys and the next generation that features Vettel, Lewis Hamilton, Pastor Maldonado, Nico Rosberg, Paul di Resta, Romain Grosjean, Kamui Kobayashi, Sebastien Vettel and Nico Hulkenberg. There is another clear gap to a third generation, which features Daniel Ricciardo, Sergio Perez, Charles Pic and Jean Eric Vergne, with more to follow. Red Bull has its eyes on a couple of the youngsters, McLaren has taken a risk on Perez. But for Ferrari, the period after Alonso remains undecided. Vettel, at 25, will be a perfect candidate for Ferrari as his career peaks in five years. So it makes sense for the team to think about him in the long term, even if it does not make much sense for Sebastian to throw away what he has, unless it all falls apart.

Vettel signed for Red Bull Racing back in March 2011. That deal should keep him at Red Bull Racing until the end of 2014. The contract is reputed to be a complicated document, which lays out a payment plan that guarantees a steady increase in earnings, rising for $11 million a year in 2011 to 13.8 million in 2012 and ultimately to $16.5 million in 2014. The Red Bull people have said loudly that there are no options, nor opt-outs. This may be true, but did anyone ask about “lock-in” clauses which mean that Vettel has to stay for the next season if he achieves a certain level of performance each year. Red Bull might, therefore, be able to argue that Vettel has to stay until the end of 2014, but could be dissembling over the terms of the deal if they do not deliver a suitable car.

Ferrari and Vettel might have some kind of verbal agreement, but this is risky in a world where people are not always trustworthy. It is more likely that there would be a heads of agreement, some kind of a non-binding document that outlines a potential future partnership, which only becomes enforcible when one or both parties agree to go ahead. Such a document would be stuffed full of confidentiality clauses and everyone in F1 knows that if you do not deny a deal, half the paddock believe that it exists. Thus telling a lie is perhaps a better option, if you are given to mistruth. In such a case there is anyway plenty of plausible deniability and shredders make light work of little agreements. So, as and when such a thing emerges, the parties can always say “when I said that it was not the case” and who can prove them wrong?

Thus it is possible that Ferrari might have a deal that would give them first call on Vettel’s services in 2014, but only if he fails to meet the lock-in clauses in his Red Bull contract in 2013. However he would be free to join Ferrari in 2015, whether Alonso likes it or not.

It really all boils down to a question of who we believe – until the point at which the truth will come out.

Hmmm…

106 thoughts on “Vettel and Ferrari – more thoughts

  1. Joe, what did you make of the story in La Stampa about Fernando reportedly losing his marbles over Pat Fry’s statement after qualifying?

      1. Sidenote about Lewis going to Mercedes – is there any truth in it Joe that Lewis left McLaren partly because he feels Martin favors Jenson?

          1. Thanks for clarifying.

            Quite a significant lot of the readers over at PlanetF1 seem very convinced that Martin has undermined Lewis by pandering to Jenson’s demands over him and isolating Lewis judging from the comments they leave behind.

            1. With the nicest will in the world, do any of these people have the faintest idea what is going on inside the F1 paddock? No, that’s what I thought.

            2. Oh, another stupid conspiracy theory dreamt up by a fanboy. Must say, I’ve looked at these in the past, realised what the stuff was all about………..now I have a life.

              1. Nope, i didnt dream up those theories – they seem to be repeated verbatim in the comments section on every Planetf1 McLaren article though.

                So who better to clarify the notion with than a F1 journalist who knows these things better than post-count warriors behind their screens.

                That said, Martin does look under the cosh these days. A bit of a downer in seeing Lewis go and there have been question from many corners on McLaren’s lack of titles.

                Droning on about McLaren winning 1 out of 4 races is just sidestepping the issue that they have not delivered enough of those wins at crucial moments to secure the things that matter most in F1: titles. I hope things turn around next year for him as he seems a nice chap on TV and McLaren is still my favourite team. I reckon they miss a trick though in not trying to entice Raikkonen to return to McLaren next season which is just my own opinion really.

          2. Joe, what about Red Bull then? Does Webber really get equal equipment? Funny how only his car has all the KERs and gearbox “issues’/

  2. Does Vettel still not have a manager? I think he was managing himself at least not so long ago. Just wondering how he would be able to avaluate the fairness of all the clauses in the hypothetical non-binding agreement he might have with Ferrari… and obviously same applies to his current contract.

  3. It makes no sense at present for Vettel to go to Ferrari while, as you say, Red Bull is a team built and moulded round him and also while Adrian Newey is sitting at the drawing board at Milton Keynes. But, I can foresee the day when Red Bull ceases to see the value of having an F1 team and will pull out. How soon that will be is anyone’s guess, but as long as F1 helps them shift tins of drink it helps. If they lose Vettel and/or Newey (both at the same time to Ferrari?) then they will go. By the way, a very reliable source told me the other day that Christian Horner had spent a lot of time recently up at Biggin Hill…

          1. I was given the distinct impression about 3 months ago, that should Red Bull fail to win this years titles, he would be out with a greater role given to Newey. Obviously the ship has been turned a bit since then and this threat has perhaps gone away – but…..

              1. I’ve tried talking to CVC before – “no comment”. Us fans really just below plankton in the hierarchy of F1!

        1. Mateschitz and Marko pull the strings at Red Bull. Seems unlikely their puppet could turn puppet master for the whole show.

          1. Old Fart Flav? No way. His star has fallen long ago. Bernie is so great & smart that he will never be replaced. I doubt whoever replaces him will ever have the power & authority Bernie had.
            But then, all this “smart” aura surrounding Bernie is maybe grossly exaggerated. Recently the parrot at The Telegraph quoted Bernie as saying : “I was a bloody idiot”.
            Am not sure super-duper-smart people say this of themselves! But I am sure the next guy will be a newby in F1. There’s already a guy coming fron Nestlé (Peter Brabeck) on the CVC board who is doing his homework over this and I am sure this next guy will be a marketing person (Brabeck is known for favouring marketing people). If he doesn’t know F1 somebody will bring him the figures and a history book. What will be expected from him is to be a shrewd deal-maker.

          1. Thanks. Now, as you are a no nonsense kind of guy, would you care to ignite a fire of controversy and make a list of your top twenty drivers of all time? I see it’s an excellent way to attract readers/death threats, especially if you have/not have Fangio/Clark/Senna/Schumacher in the correct/incorrect order.

            Go on, you could be as loathed/loved as Andrew Benson.

            1. Hah, just noticed that they put Clark in 3rd – I’d somehow totally forgotten him and assumed the top 3 would be some order of Senna, Fangio and Tazio Nuvolari. The latter has presumably missed the cut.

              Not worth arguing about though, it’s not like the BBC suddenly announced slashing their F1 coverage as “the best deal for fans” or anything stupid like that.

  4. What about Alonso to redbull and Vettel to Ferrari in 2014?

    Could see Alonso wanting a switch if Ferrari dont bulid a good car again next season

      1. I agree with the 2015 idea. Red bull will (most likely) want to tie up the contract deal in 2013 for that year, but if Ferrari and Vettel have a pre-agreement for THAT year already, with a fair amount of fibbing from both parties at the moment, it’s put them ready to negotiate. Vettel will have seen the new regs in the hands of Newey for a season and be in the stronger position to pick whichever of the two teams give him the best future. Will Red Bull hang around after then? Will alonso see vettel as his natural heir, and therefore take some of the credit if vettel wins at HIS team, or do his best to undermine vettel in the team, and further improve his position? I don’t know, am just guessing, but SV will probably be in red in 2015, which leaves the door for LewIs at Red Bull if Merc don’t deliver in ’13 or ’14.

        Jense and Mark will be gone by then, it’ll be a whole new pecking order!

        Sorry, if I could predict the future I’d be a millionaire, but I like the scenario anyway.

        Tom

        1. Jenson would still be younger than mark webber is now in 2015. I’m not convinced he’ll pack it in by then. Jenson is closer to alonsos age and younger than Kimi.

          I think the trend for older drivers is set to continue as only the richest youngsters will get a seat in future and so we’ll see the retirement age extended a few years, probably late 30s/early 40s will become more commonplace (much like it used to be I suppose).

            1. Personally I’m inclined to split the difference and say that current trends will continue.

              F1 now being much safer means that the older gents are less likely to “walk away while they still can” and the conversely more unstable financial environment encourages hanging on to the more known quantities.

              How many of the old guard have willingly walked away over the past few years? Fisichella? Trulli? Coulthard? And how many have simply found themselves shown the door as age marches on? At the very least Barrichello, Liuzzi and Heidfeld – Glock and Kovalainen might follow suit shortly. Even Schuey could be put in this category – twice.

              By contrast, the meat grinder of young drivers coming in to the sport, and having a couple of years to prove themselves (at best) is only going to continue, most likely seeing younger and younger drivers being promoted to race seats – the points-gamble being stabilised by the financial certainty of sponsorship (our host ran a brilliant piece about it not so long ago).

              I’m sure I spotted a mention somewhere in GP+ that the average “career life expectancy” of a new F1 driver is 2 years these days?

              (I must admit though, I don’t actually know how “bad” this is compared to the past couple of decades – it’s easy to think that it might have been better in “the good old days”, but we only tend to remember the drivers who made it. After all, who the hell is Tarso Marques or Alex Yoong? But we all remember their 2001 European Minardi team mate, Spanish chap by the name of Fernando…)

  5. For me Vettel’s denial is a little too…shall I say…demonstrative . In my experience, when people start saying they’re 100% committed to so and so in such a way, it belies a tension that reveals they are either lying or that there’s an element of the truth in what they’re being asked. If he’d been very relaxed about it and said it wasn’t true, I’d believe him more.

    1. If you read the exact wording he did not deny it, He said he didn’t want to tell anyone anything and that he had not signed, and that he was happy. A verbal contract is legal.
      In any case we have the example of Perez, who stated that because of the incessant pestering by the press it was necessary to lie, I think that Vettel is probably more astute than Perez, business wise and would also know when a well placed lie is necessary.
      However it makes no sense, but then Lewis leaving McLaren didn’t either.
      (and still doesn’t imho)

    2. I agree. Denying something too much often means there is truth to it!

      They could still say things which may not be total “lies”.

      E.g. maybe something “was” (not “is”) agreed in 2010 or even earlier. Maybe Vettel could say “oh that was way before but it expired now” and Ferrari could say “we think it still applies now”

      However they wish to interpret it and say ‘we are right’!

  6. Vettel’s comment does seem to have something of the tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

    He says that nothing has changed [recently], that there’s nothing he’s signed [recently], that he’s “100 percent behind” the team, and that he’s very happy…

    …absolutely none of which would at all contradict an agreement between him and Ferrari signed, say, last winter. If it weren’t for the two existing fellows under contract, Vettel could be off to Maranello next February, for that matter, and not a word of his response would be incorrect .

  7. I don’t see why Vettel is obliged to comment on this matter if he’s not ready to speak, this is not a court of law and he’s not giving evidence.

      1. Amen to that; there is one thing not answering or obfuscating and another thing going out of your way to lie. If Vettel is lying here he is being pretty cynical and no one especially his own team mates will never trust him again.

      2. So how do you think being seen as a liar will affect Perez’s career? He admitted that he clearly lied about McLaren.

          1. Didn’t Lewis lie to the stewarts as well? Or was he forced by the team? I remember he claimed something like that and a team member was sacked over the issue.

  8. Newey agreed on Sky that the time to go to Ferrari “had probably been and gone”, but that just as with drivers, he really did want to design a Ferrari. Unfortunately, and I think Joe brought this up, there’s not much of a classic Jaguar racing scene in Italy.

    It occurs that Christian Horner makes a lot of sense to succeed (some elements of) Mr E, a neutral background as far as the manufacturers are concerned, a racer in his time, a team owner elsewhere.

    Great mental image of Joe nonchalantly circling round to get another view of the Prost Frizz.

    1. “It occurs that Christian Horner makes a lot of sense to succeed (some elements of) Mr E, a neutral background as far as the manufacturers are concerned, a racer in his time, a team owner elsewhere. ”

      Yes but has he ever sold motorbikes and second-hand cars in the East end of London? Run a tyre company run, a freight company? Or at one time or another, outwitted at least half the players in F1, huge institutions, major multinationals, governments and tv companies. Even now edging back under what was agreed by the EU commission as a price for survival? (which the F1 Strategy group does). Would he have the balls to say “Yes Bahrain is on” (more trouble there btw now all protests are banned, line is hardening again)

  9. I think the question is more about Newey than Vettel. Newey has a track record of reaching a zenith and then getting distracted. There is no doubt that the man is a master of his trade but my doubts are that he may lack motivation after a period of success. Perhaps he wants a fresh challenge and where would that leave RBR? They have some great people, no doubt, but still it won’t be the same as having the maestro at the helm.

    Maybe Seb V is encouraging speculation, without having signed anything in case the Newey meltdown occurs after this season. Ferrari are on the back foot technically, I would expect them to be stronger in subsequent years – they have the financial muscle to hire the best people. Maybe not Newey but if he is out of the game…

    1. I agree, to me the question is simply whether Newey will remain in F1 at all. He walked away from McLaren to pursue other interests and came back into F1 partly because he was enticed by the challenge of building up a team from relatively meagre beginnings (he was hired in the Jaguar era if I remember correctly?) into a major force in F1.

      [This at least is how he himself has described it in interviews with the BBC at some point over the past few years]

      I can’t help wondering if three consecutive drivers’ and constructors’ titles will assure him that Red Bull are indeed that major force. Will he itch to turn his hand to other projects? Given Red Bull’s love of funding daredevil projects (Baumgartner anyone?), could Newey tire of F1 and decide to take on some other engineering challenge on behalf of the Austrian drinks behemoth?

      A Newey-designed landspeed record attempt in 2020?

      1. For me, that’s the Red Bull question As I understood it at the time, Mr Newey walked away from McLaren to have the degree control over the team that McLaren were reluctant to give him. Having managers (reputedly) overrule him on the design of the MP4/19A in the wake of the MP4/18A/X debacle was supposed to be a factor, so I can’t see Mr Newey agreeing to submit to the control of Ferrari management.

        Just a mminor correctio, Mr Newey was recruited under the Jaguar ownership, but that fell through. He actually moved to the Red Bull team, which had already produced at least one red bull without him. The effect on the next red bul was startling, in terms of competitiveness.

  10. These nonsensical stories do have a habit of coming true in F1. Vettel to Ferrari makes no sporting sense. But for the F1 brand it would be dynamite – two of the three accepted best drivers going head to head in a Ferrari. We’d finally see how good the wunderkid really is.

    Could there be an element of self fulfilling prophecy about this story? Just as perhaps there was with Hamilton’s move? If enough people who pull the strings, Bernie included (or especially), might like this to happen, I’d say it has a far greater chance of going ahead for 2014, even if there is an inherent lack of logic – money and vested interests often come first.

  11. Looks like Alonso would gladly swap with Vettel at present if La Stampa is to be believed.

    Last week Ferrari.com published a thesis on all things wind tunnel and I thought at the time the amount of detail was more than just Ferrari educating its fans. It appeared to fly in the face of Stefano’s comments a few days earlier (post Japanese GP) that the wind tunnel was no excuse for his engineers.

    Well La Stampa reports today, that Fry’s comments post qualifying were taken by Alonso as criticism of his qualifying performance. He apparently flew into a rage threatening to tweet to his 1.2 million fans that the car had received no significant aero updates since May.

    It took Stefano until 1am Sunday morning to calm Alonso down and prevent twittergate #3 of this F1 season. http://wp.me/p2HWOP-iq

    1. ‘Well La Stampa reports today, that Fry’s comments post qualifying were taken by Alonso as criticism of his qualifying performance. He apparently flew into a rage threatening to tweet to his 1.2 million fans that the car had received no significant aero updates since May.’

      It seems that Alonso (22 poles) is not the schumacheresque (68 poles) qualifying wizzard that Vettel (35 poles) is, but rather has a prostesque (33 poles) style of racing, giving preference to race speed over qualifying speed, set-upwise, that is.

      1. When the car you’re driving is 3rd/4th fastest then surely it’s the only logical approach. You become a pole master by being in the fastest car most of the time. Senna, Schumi and Vettel got their poles in the fastest car, for the most part.

  12. Great, informed perspective like this is one of the many things that keeps me coming back.

    Where can one find Dan Knutson’s writings nowadays? Enjoyed his writing on ESPN, but haven’t been able to find him since.

    Thanks.

  13. His answer is still very careful. He says ‘nothing signed. I have nothing to report’. Anyone of a cynical mindset would say that’s still a very qualified denial.

    Vettel to Ferrari in 2015/2016 makes total sense – replacing alonso, not supporting him.

        1. Of course that was a provoked sacking by Prost. Prost wanted out of the Ferrari contract to get a better car at Williams. Prost was always like this. He once wanted out of his Renault contract to get a better car at McLaren, and the only way to achieve this was to bang his boss’s wife and be caught while in it. And that was exactly what he did.

      1. But what if Vettel comes with a sponsor like deutsche bank? Will they buy out Alonso’s contract with the bank’s money and send the Spaniard to WRC?

  14. A driver is obligued to tell the 100% truth in a press conference ? Its not like they are under oath or something…..

    1. Sure he can tell lies if he wants to, but then he is branded a liar and no-one listens to anything he says. It is like real life.

      1. Joe, maybe Bernie has been giving him some lessons. Even if true, I can’t see any advantage for Vettel, in announcing this, so far in advance of it happening. Yes, RB would still give him a good car, etc etc, but the feeling within the team would change slightly, it’s human nature, when one member of any sort of team, voluntarily, breaks away. I appreciate, it would provide you guys, with something else to type about for the next 2 1/4 years, but anything else, eludes me.

      2. No one, meaning the press?

        What is stopping Raikkonen from talking BS to the media, knowing that he consequently wouldn’t be bothered in the future by them?

      3. He would not be the first one. Perez and Hamilton are good examples that even liers can be well respected in F1.

  15. The teams all have title sponsors to help pay the bills but the older, established teams aren’t owned by the sponsor. What will happen to F1 Team Red Bull when/if the Red Bull energy drink company decides to get out of the racing business? If McLaren lost their title sponsor I trust they could find a new one and carry on (of course we thought the same about Williams) but I’m not so sure about Red Bull. I’m just thinking that that might be a reason that a rational person might consider jumping from the best team.

  16. Fantastic article! This is why you are the ONLY F1 journalist that I read now.
    BTW- your e-magazine Grand Prix+ is awesome!

  17. Joe,

    Do you think Vettel’s current contract might have performance clauses for 2012? I’m not one for conspiracy theories, but I find it strange that he and Webber were evenly matched for the first half of the season, then after Webber re-signs, his performances dive as if all the attention has gone to improving Vet’s championship standing.

  18. Domenicalli came out during the Schumacher news several weeks ago and said Vettel had signed with Ferrari for 2014 but the contract has performance targets that Ferrari must meet in order for Vettel to go there. This was reported on ESPN f1 site.

  19. Perhaps maybe your source and Vettel are both right…

    In september 2011 he signed a deal that he would race at Ferrari or Ferrari would have first right to offer him a contract for 201*. However, it also was based on 2012 results.
    That would make sense for Vettel, as if he is still winning at RBR then he wouldn’t want to move, but the contract would be there so if RBR failed to deliver then he would be moving off to Ferrari.

    At some point this season there could have been a clause that was broken by Vettel being in the top 3.

    As such he is no longer under that contract.

  20. Hi Joe

    Don’t you remember what Vettel said after he won in Monza last time?

    Something like ‘it was a great feeling being on top of the podium – the only way it could be better would be if I was wearing red’.

    I thought that was weird at the time because it could upset someone inside RB (not much, but a bit).

    So I think the key thing is not the logic (of moving) but that he certainly is one driver who totally buys into the ‘special’ nature of Ferrari, and definitely 100% wants to be a Ferrari driver ‘one day’.

    Being a four time WDC after 2013 at a very young age means that yes, he will believe that he has ‘done enough’ at that age and could complete his Ferrari dream.

    Ferrari – without a WDC for so long, even with Alonso – may then be more desperate to have yet ANOTHER asset in Vettel, to increase any chance they have of a WDC.

    Maybe.

    1. I think the comment was just referring to the obvious fact, that a Ferrari driver winning in Monza must be an ultimate feeling. After winning the British GP previously, he said he wished he was british. I think he just kind of throws a soundbyte for crowd appeal, depending on where he wins.

  21. All top drivers want to be recognised as “the best”. For Vettel, the accusation is that he can only win due to being in Adrian Newey (Snr)’s cars. Therefore it makes sense for him to want to counter these arguments at some stage in his career.

    I think Schumacher reset the bar in the way drivers are judged and in turn judge themselves. Its no longer enough to just win a championship. In historical terms, there are too many drivers that just win one (an achievement in itself!). It can be accused this is down to the car (eg Williams / Brawn eras). Hence I think the top drivers want to set their legacy around building a team around them to win a championship. I see Alonso trying to do this at Ferrari and Kimi at Lotus/Renault. Lewis might have had similar ideas in contemplating his move to Mercedes.

  22. I think Vettel’s comment after winning in Monza betrays Vettel as a serious F1-nut. He’s not a callous money driven guy. He’s an F1 driver in every sense of the word and I love him for it. I think he loves the history of F1 just as much as the next fan.

    Winning in F1 must be a dream come true.

    1. @David SA. As Joe has alluded to, in a reply to another poster, Vettel and the likes of Hamilton, lead totally different lifestyles. Vettel turns up for a race weekend, and his one and only focus, is to win the race. No family, no friends, at GP’s, that we see. There’s no showbiz aspect to his F1 existence, in fact, he pretty much flies under the radar when it comes to self promotion. I never hear him speak of his fans, and doubt he’s even bothered about having any. Nor, is he tweeting every aspect of his life, as is the case with some other drivers. He seems to drive, and focus, only on his own set targets, a bit like Schumacher did, in his first stint.

      1. Yeah, I find Vettel a little annoying because the way he qualifies in front and stays there makes for boring racing, but he has to be respected for doing his job well, and his head is firmly screwed on and facing the right way. Humility os the hallmark of the greatest talents in any field, and he’s got it. Lewis had it and lost it. A pity…

        1. That’s a bit harsh, I don’t think ‘he’ lost it. I mean if he was in a Newey seat for 2011 and 2012 then it would be a different story. Also note that Red Bull are the best at operation. Their record against McLaren over the last 3 years is totally different – i.e. flawless, while McLaren on the other hand…

          Though I don’t disagree with the basic point that yes, Vettel seems more purely race-focussed. But the actual results are not dependent on their lifestyle but the power of exhaust-blown diffusers and Newey’s other genius.

          1. I think Biggus was referring to the quality of humility being something that Hamilton had and has seemingly lost. My dad found me a copy of Lewis’s first book from the end of his first season (a quid from a charity shop) and I was struck when reading it at how much he praised the team and talked of it being a collective effort – doesn’t seem to be the Lewis we’ve had in the past couple of seasons.

  23. Great article Joe. There is all this talk of “if RB pull out of F1” but surely if RB did indeed pull out of F1, the most successful team of this decade (so far) would have people smashing the door down to buy them?

    Also is Vettel that good that you listed him twice in the same sentence? 😉
    “There is a clear gap between these guys and the next generation that features _Vettel_, Lewis Hamilton, Pastor Maldonado, Nico Rosberg, Paul di Resta, Romain Grosjean, Kamui Kobayashi, _Sebastien Vettel_ and Nico Hulkenberg.”

  24. To me, what makes a Ferrari-Vettel deal seem likely is that Ferrari resigned Massa and let Perez go to McLaren. That decision is fine for 2013 but doesn’t give them much of a long-term strategy. So either Massa’s just there till Vettel comes in or they’re giving Alonso too much influence on the decision. Or do you have another perspective on why Massa’s been retained?

    1. Ferrari know Massa, Perez though talented is a risk.

      Joe, do you still think Webber will join Ferrari next year? Is Fernando championing Mark as a way of keeping Vettel away?

    2. Joe has previously stated that he is of the belief that Ferrari want Webber as a wing man for the Alonso era. Webber will be back on the market for 2014 if it is indeed another Alonso push for the title that Ferrari are after.

      I guess that Ferrari see Vettel as a better shot than Perez post Alonso. Hard to argue with that at this stage of their careers!!!

      Sad thing about all this is that it is now overshadowing a truely incredible season from Alonso. Once again he put in a drive of a lifetime on Sunday, dragging a car that should have been significantly slower to such a level that Vettel was on it until the very end to keep him at bay. From someone who has never been an Alonso fan (and firmly believe he should have been banned for spygate, which he must have known about) I have never been as impressed with a driver as I have been with Fernando this season. He has earned respect in abundance. Not that he gives a sh*t about my feelings towards him.

    3. Interesting point re Perez.

      Joe – why would Ferrari let him go unless they didn’t rate him (which makes the McLaren choice interesting) or they had other plans…

  25. At this rate, Vettel could be going to Ferrari in 2014 as a quadruple world champion. Looked at that way, the problem of how to placate a mere double world champion kind of falls away.

  26. As long as we are talking about Sebby V, I must say, I was hoping he would win the championship again this year… but not in a dominating way. To witness an imperfect, fighting season for Sebastian has been entertaining. I love a good nail biter. And it will make his WDC crowning in Austin, Texas even sweeter!

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