The Long Beach City Council has proposed a three-year extension with the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach that will keep IndyCars racing there until 2018 but will open the the event for bidding. This satisfies both parties as the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach, the current promoter, wanted an extension, while the F1 proposal was to be given the chance to bid. Chris Pook, who leads the F1 bid, says that Grand Prix racing will bring more value to the city, and it is easy to see why, if the city has nothing to pay.
The danger of the City’s proposal is that the F1 circus will not want to wait and will look for a venue elsewhere in southern California, which would potentially knock a big whole in the audience going to Long Beach. Pook, it should be remembered, organised an IMSA race in the Del Mar Fairgrounds, near San Diego, between 1987 and 1992, using the infrastructure from Long Beach. Right now there is no shortage of equipment available because of the failures of the Baltimore and Valencia street races, although it is cheaper to manufacture the concrete blocks require than to transport them.
joeblogsf1 
Indycar, to host the overpriced and overhyped F1 charade will bankrupt the city!
Doesn’t compare. Best drivers in the world in F1.
Yes, I’m sure you’ll find Max Chilton on many peoples list of best racing drivers in the world. The top drivers in NASCAR, never mind Indycar, could outpace the likes of Max Chilton and the other pay drivers in F1.
Prove it.
That won’t happen mate, as F1 is a closed shop to other race series. You only get in with a bucket load of cash, and if you have that cash it’s immaterial if you are a class act or a duffer. In the case of Bernie, when he ran Brabham, he went from class acts like Reutemann & Pace, to employing also rans and journeymen like Robarts,Von Opel & Rebaque, to name a few, which bolstered his team bank account and or personal wallet, but did nothing to enhance F1. I agree with RonnyRocket, there are plenty of ace Indycar and NASCAR drivers who could do a better job than at least 4 or 5 of the current F1 grid.
And the likes of Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton, Button, Raikkonen, Rosberg and Hülkenberg?
And? If you notice, all those are quality drivers. However everyone knows The Hulk can’t get a top drive because he’s not got money to blow!
I have to disagree, maybe the top 4/5 teams have the best drivers available, but the best drivers overall, sorry. Of course the joy of this argument as Joe may agree is that there is no way to prove it!
Well there could easily be a way round that. All it would need would be to have 2 races, one in the USA and one in Europe, with the top 12 Indycar drivers and top 12 F1 drivers, qualifying for each race, and the races to be held back to back, with all the drivers in Indycars for 1 race and in F1 cars for the next race. Each driver would be allowed say 500 miles of free testing first in each type of car, the cars supplied would only be the best ones, so for F1 12 cars supplied by Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc, Mac, 3 cars each, and in Indycar, it would be Penske, Ganassi,Andretti & Rahal Letterman, or another.
The races to carry a £5m Winners prize, for team & driver, and held in early autumn in 2 years time, by which time the pace and reliability of the current F1 cars should be equalized.
How’s that for any idea??
And don’t say the drivers could not get into the zones needed, as it has been shown that F1 & Indycar drivers can go from series to series and be highly competitive…Our Nige did rather well, and Super Mario never had much trouble going from one to the other!
Nice idea, but back in the real world this is never going to happen!
Well in the old days, F1 wasn’t so precious that it wouldn’t let the drivers loose in other series! Ticket sales for an event like that would be immediate I would think, with none left in minutes.
Also it did happen in the 60’s / 70’s to a degree, when F1 & F5000 cars raced in non championship events together. It would obviously be more interesting to have the drivers from each series try the different cars.
Great idea mate, and I’d love to see it happen. But as Edward Berresford said, I wonder whether something like that is ever going to happen…
Yes, F-1 : the best drivers and the worst racing (if any…) !
Surely if there is a real estate / regeneration deal linked to this race then the choice of going with F1 is not ‘free’. It presumably comes at the price of relaxed zoning rules, special waivers of local taxes and promises of road infrastructure spending to sweeten the viability of a commercial development whose returns would go straight to the developer. The city may conclude that when the commercial development is sufficiently viable it can happen on its own, without city incentives linked to an F1 race, and maybe generate some tax dollars. I guess it needs to work out which route would generate the most.
Anyway – I’d love to see a mega open wheel weekend, Indycar and f1 head to head. We know who’d be quicker, but who’d be louder?!
Sanction fee for Indy Car race is $2 million while sanction fee for F1 race is $25 million. The circuit infrastructure a promoter must provide for F1 is far more costly than for Indy Car, e.g. garage and paddock specifications, media requirements, circuit safety specifications, etc. All other promotor costs would be similar, e.g., marketing, security, track set-up,etc. I would like to see the comparative analysis and revenue assumptions that justify the F1 sanction fee versus Indy Car from the perspective of a race promotor.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not suggesting Indy Car is “better” than F1 in any manner, just looking at the numbers.
As far as the town of Long Beach is concerned, if they pay zero in either scenario then obviously the city would be better served by F1 as far more ancillary revenues, e.g. Restaurant, hotel, taxes, etc. would be generated for the community with F1 than with Indy Car.
Read GP+ and it is all explained.
Great interview with Lauda in GP+ 142. It and The Last Lap really show how much manure is created by one bull.
As a Yank with extremely deep connections in S.Cali I’ve been asking around a bit . Simply stated S.Cali and Long beach in particular do not have the financial resources to pay for F1 . Fact is Indy Car is dragging the cities finances down … Long Beach losing money each and every year . With over one million homes in S. California going into foreclosure this year alone – jobs on the wane – the severe drought state wide exacerbating the situation – agriculture [ a major source of revenue for Cali ] currently in a load of hurt – nothing on the horizon giving so much as a hint of a future promise of funds/jobs etc it is a bleak picture in sunny California indeed . And F1’s not in a position to help matters one bit . So just as I predicted [ because again I’ve got the inside resources ] with NJ [ and was spot on ] I’ll confidently state that Long Beach and in fact most likely NO F1 race will ever take place anywhere in California be it north , central or south in the near or distant future . Fact is F1 is and should be the lowest priority for the State of California .. Cali having much bigger and more critical to its future fish to fry . Period . From Promotors to the Press to the Pundits to the Fans … its about time everyone starts facing the economic realities that is surrounding the entire world and stop once and for all this constant barrage of delusional wishful thinking . Wishing/Magical thinking not only not making things happen.. but nine times out of ten making things much much worse in the end .
Negative pessimistic thinking some may accuse me of ? Not hardly . Just realistic and informed as well as willing to face reality head on .. rather than with ones head in the sand . An old blue water sailing adage . When in a storm .. always keep your bow pointed into the wind and facing the oncoming waves 😉
But on a positive note … Luca de Montezemolo …. like the majority of us fans thinks the new F1 is crap as well and is about to go head to head with his former charge Jean Todt to attempt to rectify what Luca is calling ” Taxi Cab driving ” F1 . Finally !. Someone stepping up to the plate and telling it like it is rather than simply toeing the party [ FIA ] line . Finally !!!!! It figures though that only the head of Ferrari would be willing [ and able ] to take on the FIA !
So maybe .. and I do mean maybe … there’s a miniscule modicum of hope left for this season . Because at the moment F1 has regressed completely into a ‘ Spec Series ‘ with only the pretense of innovation [ impossible to be innovative when everyone’s given the exact same equipment and tires and the rules are so restrictive as to completely negate even the pretense of ‘ Innovation ‘ ]
Sermon over . Coffee , Donuts and Bagels in the narthex .
Guitar,
I live in the Bay Area, and things have started to change. For years I hardly ever saw cars with plates from other states on the road. Now I see 3-5 on every drive to work and back. Florida, New Jersey, Texas etc etc. I.e. companies are hiring again and moving people to CA. Which hasn’t happened much for years.
And rents are increasing at sickening pace. Up to 20% per year…
And finally, we even had few days of rain in the past week. And tomorrow supposedly again. Maybe we can take showers in the summer? Car washing might still be out of the question though….
With that positive note, lets hope F1 appears in Long Beach…
Nobody cares about the .1rl. Remember a couple years ago, when the F1 race from China aired at 2:00 AM on SPEED pulled better Nielsen ratings than the hulmancar LBGP broadcast on a weekend afternoon on ABC?
The opener @ St. Pete just drew an overnight of 0.6 on ABC. That’s sure to fall.
I believe a Fred Phelps infomercial on GLTG TV would get more viewers than the clown car league on ABC…
Come on jim, you must know that 2014 is finally going to be the IRL’s brake out year! All the ex-CART fans will be coming back in droves!
If not this year, then definitely in 2015 or 2016. Or 2017 at the latest. They can’t stay away forever.
Any basis on the theory that Long Beach, whether naively or not, are playing a long game and figuring that in three years, they may not have BE to negotiate with, thinking that they will get better terms? I agree that three years may be too long, and FOM’s interest may have moved on by then. San Diego would sure make a much more dramatic backdrop for a GP than Long Beach. I’ve been there, and aside from the Long Beach Convention Center, there isn’t much more to be said about it, the beach having long (no pun intended) gone (or not).
Is the Grand Prix association of long beach the indycar promotors?
When Christ pook refers to Grand Prix racing, does he mean f1?
(I know the term gp is not limited to f1 but the text is confusing)
Pook formed the Grand Prix Association of Long Beach back in the 1970s. It was the F1 promoter and then became the IndyCar promoter when F1 left. Pook later sold the business. It is now owned by IndyCar team owners Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerry Forsythe. Pook is working with F1.
Thanks for the clarification joe
I thought Pook was working for the guy in NJ, on his port imperial race that was sure to fly, because 1 man owned the property and the race was going to increase the value of said property huge? 😛
Is he working for F1 then? He’s a name some people know and lends a bit of press credibility to any proposed race in the USA, no matter how laughably unrealistic the deal is…
He is working on both
Joe Ive just been reading the news on Sky Sports about Hass joining F1. Looks like great news for them but do you think this will raise the chances of the Long Beach race happening?
Haas getting an entry won’t impact the Long Beach decision. There is some pushback from local business about changing to F1. It’s not a sure thing at all. If I had to bet right now I would bet it remaining an Indycar race.
Possibly but Long Beach will probably regret it
Forsythe hasn’t owned an Indycar team in several years.
Yes, I am aware of that. I was simply trying to explain things in as few words as possible.
Wouldn’t they have to resurface for F1? My recolection is it’s fairly bumpy.
I can’t work out who would pay Bernie and how they would get their money back, at least not without someone getting done up like a kipper!
Screw long beach – F1 should go to the Sonoma raceway in northern California. It’ll pull from San Francisco and the surrounding bay area – and I would be well within driving distance.
I don’t think Sonoma meets F1 circuit standards.
I don’t think Sears Point is equipped to handle F1.
I live in Baltimore city and even though I am not an Indycar fan I was sad to see the race end. It was cool just to have SOMEthing in the area.
Good proposal by the council- give Indy 3 years to prove it is bouncing back, make sure F1 is committed enough to wait. If F1 goes elsewhere in the USA, even better for American Indycar/ F1 fans. Near SF or SD would be great.
I doubt F1 will wait. If Long Beach does not want to play, it can stay with Indycar. The business model will work in some other places as well
Three years is too long for F1 to wait. If the F1 group wants a grand prix in southern California and are open to a severely reduced or absent sanctioning fee, an alternate site could be ready as soon as next year.
Finding a promoter at a different site who would be willing to pay the F1 Group’s typical sanctioning fee? That’s an entirely different kettle of fish, and not at all likely to happen.
US municipalities, venues, and sponsors don’t often see the value in paying the F1 group’s stupendous sanctioning fees. That situation is not likely to change anytime soon.
If there was not a business model that works, there would not have been a bid.
The writing is on the wall, although it isn’t all that clear. Long Beach is offering a three year extension to IndyCar, but open it up for bidding? For when, after the the three year extension expires? What good is that for F1? F1 is currently experiencing a mixed bag of results in the U.S. Austin is a major success, while New Jersey is an ongoing quagmire. To the reader of racing columns, reports, plus TV broadcasts, the F1 Long Beach proposal appears to be a menagerie of smoke and mirrors which is laced with mysterious people and proposals which have yet to emerge out of the woodwork, or possibly, off the wall. This will sort itself out in time one way or another in the end however. If it is a ligitimate offer that F1 is giving, and the improvements to the circuit and sanctioning fees are covered for the city, if I were in Lon Beach’s shoes, I’d back the F1 program, with the stipulation that that it be run with the IndyCar event be held as a same day supporting event to the Grand Prix. For Long Beach this is a win-win opportunity. With F1 they get the most prestigious series in the world, along with the incredible entourage and world focus that goes with it and with IndyCar they’ll get the number one national series from their own back yard, which is also the most competitive open wheel series in te world, doesn’t have contraversery over the volume of their V6, 750 HP turbo engines, the cars are somewhat better looking, and where the term “tyre degradation” does not exist in their vernacular. In this scenario both series could pick up a few pointers from each other, the fans would have an incredible show, and Long Beach would have a major success on its hand.
Do you have a Dino?
FWIW here in the U S of A, NBC reports the ratings for the Australian and Malaysian F1 races are up 102% from 2013. That translates as 248,000 viewers instead of 123,000. Still small by NASCAR standards but it was early in the morning.
As a resident of New Jersey…I fear this is the nail in the coffin for us here in NJ
No, the plan is still for both
F1 is a gift horse that definitely needs its teeth checked. Nothing in F1 is free, especially not when Bernie’s at the other end of the deal.
Whatever the city is offered should be checked, scrutinized, analyzed, vetted by experts, x-rayed, then checked for polonium poisoning. I exaggerate, but the stories or F1 promoters who have left their cities race-less are legion.
If the Formula One Group itself is willing to guarantee a ten year deal, irrespective of payment, then Long Beach should take the deal and run. One imagines this is not the case. The only guarantees are likely being made by a promoter. Such promoters are typically newly formed corporations. They are only as permanent as their backer’s attention span.
The day such a promoter tires of sending $25 million, plus the annual 10% escalator, plus millions in annual setup, is the day the racing ends. Ask Valencia, ask Istanbul, ask Korea.
Now there’s a thought, F1 at Del Mar 🙂
I agree brother!
Shame it’s not going to happen, still we can dream.
F1s been looking for years for a place in SoCal and it’s both the money and hugely space consuming construction of pits and parking lots that’s been a problem.
If Bernie were a compromiser or perhaps locked in the gaol, something could get worked out.
Bernie is the end user. The promoter is not BE.
U.S. promoters willing to pay Bernie’s fees are rather thin on the ground.
He looks to have landed some in Long Beach, but would they be willing to pay the freight at a completely different location? It seems unlikely.
Unless the F1 Group is prepared to abstain from their traditionally stupendous fees, another SoCal locale seems unlikely to quickly emerge.
A grand prix at Elkhart Lake, aka Road America, one of the most spectacular circuits anywhere on the planet, would be the best solution. Of course, the phenomenal sporting merits of such an idea will never outdo the harsh, bitter realities of finance, I know…..just dreaming!!
Would be cool watching F-1 cars roar up the hill, past the pits, and brake for turn one. Like every other track in the US, save Austin, millions would be needed for infrastructure improvements, including pit garages, international press center, race control, not to mention the track itself; it would have to be widened, repaved, more runoff areas. Essentially, a new track would have to be built using the footprint of the old one. That is before they are even ready to bid for a race. Face it, there isn’t a promoter who can afford IndyCar’s sanctioning fees. Still, it’s great to imagine. Personally, I’d like to see F-1 return to Watkins Glen, but the reality is the same as with Road America.
My vote would go to Laguna Seca – can you imagine F1 cars trying to negotiate the corkscrew? We stand in awe when they go flat through Eau Rouge, so …
Oh, come on. $25 million fee to draw as many people as one Sunday afternoon at Staples Center in which The Lakers play the early game at 13:00 and The Clippers play at 19:30?
The numbers just don’t make sense. F1 has priced itself out of the market 10x over.
If there was not a business model that works, there would not have been a bid.
Joe, if I understand what you’ve said, the basic premise is that the organizers are willing to pay the huge costs (infrastructure upgrades, BE’s annual fee, the city’s annual fee, and annual operating expenses) because they are confident that they will make it all back, plus buckets of profit, from the increase they expect to occur in local real estate values as a result of F1’s annual visit to the neighborhood.
Is my understanding correct?
If so, do we have any precedent for an event that occurs one weekend per year causing such a windfall in local real estate values?
p.s. I don’t pretend to understand how megabuck real estate works, but I’m sure you can understand that this all seems like inexplicable magic…
Have you heard of Monaco?
Joe, we both know that nobody was gouging Monoco for the honor of hosting a race when that tradition was being established.
We also know that Long Beach doesn’t have any of that beautiful attributes of Monaco.
BTW, does Monoco pay Bernie $25M/yr, escalating at 10% per annum? (I didn’t think so…)
I am sure if you ring the Automobile Club they will be happy to tell you
You’re correct of course.
Reports over the years have suggested that Monaco pays either small fraction of the F1 Group’s average sanctioning fee, or no fee at all.
It seems that Long Beach was being offered a low-cost Grand Prix by a promoter, not by the Formula One Group itself. Quite a different situation to that of Monaco.
Promoters are often shell corporations with few or no assets. They can walk away from deals like this with little or no consequences.
That’s my guess as to why Long Beach passed on this “Free Grand Prix.
Why not run both the series on one Sunday? Save a good amount of dough by only having to build the infrastructure once and having to series to race on it.
Open wheel racing isn’t doing so great in this country, so combined effort to entertain the audience for an afternoon of racing might make little bigger news and maybe make some more people to show up / tune on.
They won’t host both series on the same track in the same year, much less on the same weekend, because Bernie won’t permit any competition… especially one that allows comparison of speed and value…
Is there enough room to host an F1 race? How about F1 and a support series. Right now they barely have enough for Indycar and the partial TUSCC grid has to ump through hoops to get in and out. I really wish someone would publish a proposed layout just to show it is possible to fit the pits/hospitality and fans.
Joe, according to the Long Beach newspaper, the decision is all but made. There’s only a formality before finalization.
It’s looking very much like Formula One has lost this little battle. As you point out, if they lose it for 3 years, F1 has probably lost it for good.
Pook says he’s happy, but it’s extremely difficult to see why. A brave face?
not exactly on topic, but I just watched a youtube video of the Toyota TS030 Hybrid at Spa and was blown away by the sound of the the thing. Loud, screaming, guttural. I know you’ve said previously F1 will move on from the lack of noise debate, but I don’t know. I’m going to miss it.
San Diego will never host an F1 race. That’s pure fantasy. By the time that gets approved, Long Beach will be open for bidding again. Staging an IMSA race 20 years ago is a far cry from an F1 race today.
Currently Indycar puts on a better race with better attention to fans without the annual theater of BE or the continual rules confusion that is F1 and draws an appreciative audience . I have attended all LBGP’S to date.
Ummm, no. And whatever they’re “putting on” these days has been losing lots and lots of spectators since the heydays of CART.
Surely F1 makes more sense. If F1 won’t cost the city anything and they will get genuine international exposure compared with the much smaller Indycar audience. No brainer.
If that were actually true, wouldn’t Long Beach have gone with F1? The devil’s in the details.
A no-cost guarantee from a promoter’s shell company is a long distance from a guaranteed no-cost race.