There have been reports that the Caterham F1 Team has been sold to a new consortium, involving Middle Eastern/Swiss investors. It is understood that the news will be announced on Wednesday. It is believed that there will be a new team principal, probably someone without F1 experience, and there is to be new technical leadership as well, with the goal being to transform the current car in an effort to grab ninth place in the Constructors’ Championship from Marussia and Sauber. It is not yet clear whether the buy-out will be 100 percent of the team, or a smaller share but it is clear that team boss Tony Fernandes will not be involved in the future, although he will maintain the Caterham road car business.
- Comment
-
Subscribe
Subscribed
Already have a WordPress.com account? Log in now.
joeblogsf1 
Hi Joe. Have you got any idea of what Tony Fernandes intends to do with the GP2 team?
No, no idea.
Qadbak? I hope I’m only joking.
Don’t believe so.
Shame that he’ll no longer be involved in F1, as I like Fernandes. Sure progress is taking time, however watching from the outside it seems that the team lost a bit of it’s buzz once he became the owner of QPR and the F1 team seemed to go on the back burner. Any idea’s who might be in charge going forward from a technical point of view Joe?
No, not yet.
Ry, TF was the owner of QPR before he owned the F1 team.
No
He wasn’t mate; took over at QPR late 2011.
And started the F1 team in 2009
In which case I stand corrected and will eat a large scoop of humble pie flavoured ice-cream…
It’s not Quantum, is it?!
(joke)
Don’t think so!
He said consortium, so Ijaz + Qadbak!
Have you been reading Harry Potter?
Well, you can’t fault the buyer (whoever they are) for ambition — revamp the _current_ car, improving it enough to score at least three points, in just 20 weeks, less two for the August shutdown.
The only thing that I can think of that might work would be rotating knives on the wheel hubs, or possibly a dozen or so harpoons mounted on the “alien” part of the nose…
If Caterham outscore Marussia this year, i’ll eat Joe’s Toyota Prius…..then at least he would have to buy a decent car!
I’m not sure that either the Lotus-Merc or Caterham stories are as fascinating as the one that must be brewing at McLaren. I’d bet a tidy sum that poor old JB is headed for redundancy, and either Alonso or Hamilton are being seriously stroked for his seat….maybe even Vettel? I certainly feel that Alonso could well slot in there next year.
That second McLaren seat has Grosjean’s name all over it!
I think RD will be going all out for one of the top 3 drivers, Grosjean only has a chance if he can’t get a top driver and if he thinks Grosjean would do a better job than JB. His other chance is if Honda prefer JB to be there, in which case KMag might have to take a year off?
But Boullier has been charged with the personel re-structure and is a massive fan of young Romain. Do you really think Lewis, Fernando or Seb would take a step back to medium McLaren? they will want to see that Honda work first surely?
Yes but RD has the last word. If you think about it all, Honda have usually built good engines. They have been able to see what works ( Merc ) and what doesn’t ( Renault & Ferrari ), it might well be that they will leapfrog both of those and compete directly with Merc.
Hammy will get all emotional if he doesn’t win the title and Nico gets it, in those circumstances one could see the attraction of him in a Mac-Honda, like Senna his hero, and with a slower JB or less experienced KMag alongside.
Vettel has shown that he doesn’t like flailing around mid field….Newey is in the background for 2015 on, Peter Promodou from RBR is at Mac, Big Ron loves great champs, and Seb currently leads the field in titles….it would also give MB a headache if SV in a Mac – Honda could beat them….
Alonso has had 5 years of decent engines but poor chassis, this year it’s both…he knows Mac, and like Hammy if he went there with Honda, he would have limited competition which suits him, and full Mac attention for a title run.
I bet Ron would move the whole planet to get anyone of those 3 into a Mac-Honda, and I would not bet against him already working flat out to get one of them! The only way Grosjean would get in is if Ron dumps JB ( possible ) or KMag, ( not so likely ), and the only way JB can stay is if his Honda connections are strong.
On current form, right now Caterham would only need to score one point to make it back into the top 10 given that Sauber’s best finish so far this season is a single 11th place.
Well I see the Bolt has said that he doesn’t give one if the small teams quit, and that they should do if they can’t afford to be F1 teams. His view is that he would rather have 8 teams running 3 cars each, than have the current 11 teams, so he was quoted anyway….also see he is saying that Monza will not have a contract renewed for 2016….time to turn the tv off! I gather he would be happy with Mugelllo, as the Italian round, although in general he says the tv drop off in Italy doesn’t make it attractive for F1……when is he going???? Can it be soon before he #%*& s up F1 completely????
In german press there is some talk of a german person who is famous in german motorsports…….Kolles??
Kolles is Romanian… I don’t think Mario Theissen’s up to much these days, though, is he?
I think you are barking up the wrong tree with Theissen.
This is the real F1. Oil interests trying to hook the hordes on the excitement of driving. TAG, Mumtalakat, Abu Dhabi(I see all those stickers on Scuderia Toro Rosso), Petronas. The one heavy hitter that’s the quietest is Saudi; are they the hidden hand behind Bahrain’s support for McLaren? Please do correct me if I’m having visions, Joe.
You are having visions
A Mirage…
But MitchW almost got it:
What else is in common to all these countries:
Financial centers.
Switzerland lost most its advantages.
Bahrain et.al. all are developing financial centers and all have strong similarities in terms of what to can get there in terms of privacy and quite a lot besides.
None are pushovers, either. I don’t imagine Bahrain rolling over at any district attorney’s subpoena just because they were asked.
Mitch also missed on even bigger names that would fit with his ideal. Bechtel and ABB come to mind immediately. Bechtel basically had the contract to build Saudi, up until the eighties.
F1’s focus on Asia and the Middle East is very interesting for those selling financial products and big engineering. Also is it not about time all that effort and attention got a bit more coming back?
So I don’t think MitchW is walking the dunes in circles, yet. Just needs to check if he’s got a oasis in sight, or the heat is a bit much.
I also fancy myself too polite to point out that all those UBS banners (hoardings, n’est-ce pas?) on the tv screen are placed there by the bankers, hoping to attract shady types (smell nice, though), hiding their $kim with the discrete $wiss launderers. Who is it you think is being entertained at the track when F1 lands in one of Bernie’s far flung, elite dumps around the planet? It isn’t the couth deficient rabble like me.
Don’t get me wrong. I love this show. It’s my reality tv.
Hi Mitch, if I’m allowed, i’ll precis why I agree with you, as to the perfidious pantheon business presents,
Sometimes, Mitch, I think I should take my talents off into conspiracy theory land, to run a zerohedge kinda site for this game. I sadly know deeply enough the world of finance, enough to have very early on I didn’t fit, enough to know my maverick way through it, sometimes when needed, and a smattering of knowing adland … I find myself egging on constituencies who ought to bring money to F1, when I have no faith in the sincerity of any party. I lead a conflicted life, because every trade has two sides. You become a relativist. I just got saved by a aversion to debt at the same time right now, if you can limit your liabilities, debt is essential. If you are not massively in debt, you are being fleeced. I used to think of cycles in markets as things I could understand, a decade or three at the most, but there is a megacycle of conflating factors that I fear will impoverish me. I check old tape archives still replay, of data and papers and correspondence, as a kind of totem to the gold rushes I have seen and appreciated but thought so much flotsam and jetsam. I’ll say this now, my net worth is about three orders lower than my good old friends, who seem perpetually waiting on me to make a breakthrough. That’s why I don’t get digging into the issue too much, because there is a twinge of bitter know it all in me, on a rough day. I’m intimately familiar with most of the overt scams in tax minimization: you can’t compete without them. I’ve been selling hokey cokey wisdom without the necessary ruthless backup, for too long. People say I should write, instead. Boy do I have something to write about. But it seems who I used to write for, has become a casualty of my misjudgment, if it was possible to avert a conflagration of human failure single handed. So I am a very sad person, lately. I know the mechanisms, know the ones which elude me also better than .. well I see the human factors how so much works, now. When JPMorgan marketed Value At Risk, through their RiskMetrics subsidiary, for example, I couldn’t figure it. All closed loop thinking. Dawned on me too late the game was benchmark promotion. Still a teen, I was invited to meet a pal’s banker friends, and option theory came up “it’s Brownian motion” I said, “err, ohh, how?” I blew a puff of smoke and cut it with my hand, and asked “how do you model my hand?”. People did not know what to make of me. Bear in mind, my company was not likely to have ever looked deeply into Black Scholes or even heard of Ed Thorp who I had only read because I loved card games as a kid, who pretty much started modern option math thinking. Rpaco reminded me of Surely You’re Joking Mr Feynman , which I read when published, influenced me greatly. So greatly I thought I could muddle through with application of intellect. But I completely ignored the amount of support he had, I tried to wing it every which way, down to being mistaken professionally for a study of organizational behavior. I studied in practice every aspect I could, by practice I mean engaging big companies and small, figuring when the big acted parochially, the small could be made to look big. But I never was on for the con. By which I mean, if I figured I could figure it out, someone had the ability to see right through me. So I failed to push many times when I should. Instead i’d pick up another field. I’d make just enough, there’s a family money cushion too, but that rarely made a difference and was always small, anyhow then i’d press on with another gig. I lost interest in computers early, recognizing that I didn’t want to be a nerd, and know how to talk to girls, which I wasn’t good at. Then in three stints, came back heavily. I’ve done it all, and yet never quite got any name for myself in any of it. Soon as I could pass, not on first impression, for what I thought I had learned, move on. Thing is, when I really knew my stuff, I was so deep I was becoming the nerd I never wanted to be. I can’t tell you the regrets, because I derailed myself lately during a push to get deep into some new ideas which synthesize my cumulative experience. I never allows myself to time to balance those, to come out as a human being. Although I was up against odds that frightened me, I utterly failed to think intelligently, and maybe purely for that, I’m not the only one hurt. Hurt in life changing ways, for which there is at very best a improbable very long road to forgiveness.
In business, there is too much a take first, ask permission later, route to prosperity.
But I think the promotion of narrow views of success in big and successful business, are a major cause of widespread human suffering. Advertising is the tip of the iceberg. Since social media, there has been a much better understanding of how PR can go very wrong. But it is not seen as a malaise that runs deeper. We go on here about characters we dislike, managing race teams, and those we like, and the rest of it.
What we need all to do, is to stop expending human capital for the sake of a few points gain, because we’re doing this lock stock and barrel. What was unacceptable in the eighties is a way of life now. Try junk bonds, which have existed for centuries. The powers took Milken to jail first for ten then commuted to two once he hired a decent attorney, for he was only up on a few very minor charges, now junk finance is the norm. In fact in reverse, AIG ended up financing the very European banking system with artificial AAA credit. I read as a teenager, how Basel worked. Friends dads would talk to me almost as a equal, who sat on boards of old line banks. But I was either too dumb to ask for a job, or felt I wasn’t a part. I can’t blame my dad, but I think I hand a very old theoretical communist bent, that transpired then. Imposter syndrome but genuinely a imposter from a unheard of school suddenly at the top… way too much of what is revelatory on blogs of the past decade and prominently since Lehman, is what I understood at one level or another twenty years before.
None of that mattered to me. There was always time, there was always time. I could sell my way out of any hole. I could earn enough in a few months to spend the hear how I wanted, having no debt.
And into my possibly final, for it will be quite the miracle I get another run, into my final attempt to summit this mountain of financial puzzling and smokes and mirrors and technology, right in the middle of that, the most sublime woman tried to call to me, in desperation and plight, in confusion and then in love, and I was hamstring. For my direction was incompatible. I had just given up half a decade plus two or three remainders, to set to this summit and I was in a narrow corridor of thought, and nothing she could do ever timed with how I was, for I am slow, very slow, and a fool and overly sensitive, and never saw what I could do to make things better, because I had forgotten who I was, and the burden of all this potential forever my family’s disdain and every friends’ disdain for unfulfilled potential, I had discarded myself in a attempt to outperform against every disadvantage I knew very well, some deliberate handicapping even, but a knowledge I had cast aside my personal needs, to make this effort. And whilst I first found Joe’s blog, while most of my mind was occupied presumably gainfully, there was a beginning of a change, a recognition that there was another way to speak of what I knew of could try to understand . . . and a reconnection with myself that was both a saving grace for the tolerance allowed me, and a exposition to writing for others, which I had never done. And that practice led me to write this woman, when things were confused, and confused not by us I do not think, but by jealousies and worse, in a language I barely recognize as my own, though so much got lost in a recent episode of wonton destruction of what I might stand for I understand but cannot being myself to write. She said I was her Cyrano, but there was love before. Only, in a year that had become a eyes down for a full house concern, practically, legally, financially, a tangle of messes that needed my all, and I could not give that to them, and I could not give that to who loved me, and for no other reason than misunderstanding, I persevere.
I believe there is a solution to the rolling financial crisis. I only get possibly crazed ideas form my thoughts, and I may be a mad man in that respect. But I believe it is required to socialize the technical development of this world. The last world war socialized so much development, and for a long time, returns and gains benefited widely. Technical development in hand with education is the way to bring us out of malaise. In collegiate fashion, preferably without a war on the scale to afflict all. But as we approach greater bifurcation of living standards and prosperity, as we make learning a specialism wherein one PR man in finance has never even tried to sell a bond, as a bond trader has never tried to work out a crippled mom and pop business, as we have been created the consumer society of potential ignorance, or the wealthy unrequited to ever fix a light bulb, but only on a massive scale: can iPhone user program in BASIC? I mean we are unraveling just at the time the technology can give huge advantage, when even a small company can gain immensely by a few months learning or tuition. I am tempted to think the obstacle to so much is convoluted government and tax regimes which will be gamed. Otherwise, I suggest a suspension of almost everything, a forcible public takeover of stock across the board, whilst money is pumped into education.
This all started with UBS adverts.
Why, if such institutions rely on public money, do we not count everyone downstream as relying so on public money, and create a structure of bailout up and down the board, rather than for just the few who are imagined to honestly broker that money onwards? I want the economy to slow down, because there is imbalance in gold rushes. Market indexes are always biased by survivors, the failures no longer included. Darwin went on about the most adaptable, not the fittest per se. When startups talk in a good way of “pivoting” they mean apply existing experience and taken to a new arena close enough no need to start over. And so many crash and burn because they’ve not enough runway. I want to know what happens if you take any enterprise and make the public a capital owner, even in part, but a significant part. Equity rather than tax, culling the tax break phenomenon, when I am sure one of the 900+ tax specialists at general electric have figured out how sponsoring caterham costs you and me, not them.
We need to either break the loops, or close the loops.
I am sorry this is a personal affectation of mine, to combine what matters to me with inadequate abstracts of business and finance, but for me my life is crunch, and I have been long and wrong and short and shackled, and gotten everything about wrong,
What we often need in life, if a time to adjust, to take stock, to learn form our mistakes. My own life has been impoverished of unknown joys, because that time to take stock was disallowed by unspeakable circumstance, which neither party wanted to be as it was. So, this is nothing new as a idea under the sun, but I think absolutely around the world, there needs to be set some rules in business and economy, which give is all time out, to understand what we are getting into. We have given such a disproportionate advantage to institutions like banks for a very long time, and just raised that to infinity. Yet the spread of technology and new science, there is a lot to new science, even GM crops are not evil when they do not make for impenetrable monoculture and locked in worldwide economies: Cargill are almost vertical, leasing farmland in the third world, leasing ships for dry tonnage, making chicken mcnuggetsin Russia,.. I allow that such organizations can drive immense innovation and immense inefficiencies which may allow us as a universal tribe to survive and flourish. I do not think e.g. Cargill is secretive because they play unpleasant games, because I believe equally they advance the science and patents do not protect long enough for many to be awarded and leave life left on them. Only I am making excuses for myself, for the big companies, for the system. I do not think excuses should be necessary, I think that change ought to be made in a way that is in fact sweeping and a land grab, nationisation even, so that benefit is forced back to the whole. Dammit, corruption is ever present. But we have the technology to do so much, and the reasons I forever find why we fail, and so often are unhappy, are so simple. As for taxation, when you are on trust to file your return, why is that not automated now? Demand payback for real in a measurable way. Automatically. Of course a hundred and a bit years ago, corporations did not expect to be taxed, that kind of tax is a new thing, too long a argument short the details, but it came in but by bit, and in the early days it did good for average hard working families. I am bitter, yes, because I am privileged, and yet disadvantaged for not being part of much that I could have been, and then lost in a crusade of my own, when just once, I had another crusade to lead. It’s like moaning that a job hurts family because of too much travel. But on a much more involved way, now you know my motivations may run deep, maybe for the rest if my life, to unravel corporate nonsense, until some time when we can all look to those logos with a sense of recognition and even pride. What point, advertising, when honest public opinion is so against you? In summary, my cycles of commercial life in advertising and finance have taken from me too much, and all I know now is to find some positive way to deposit a better understanding of these forces. I better stop, because this is truly painful to write. I just figure to be open because I think way too much of these debates as to advertising and finance truly matter to people, and it’s about time they were understood anew. All my best ~ johnother
I for one think you are right.
Tony seemed to have enthusiasm for the sport even after it became clear the Budget Cap would not be what he thought it was. Hope the new owners are the same.
Perhaps I’m too much of a cynic, but I never understood how anyone could have believed that “promise” of the FIA. If it’s not in writing (and even then), why risk millions on it? On the other hand, entrepeneurs need to take risks. But believing the FIA would succeed in a cost cap? Really?
I really believe Tony spread himself too thin. Although he was clear as mud what he was doing, and remains a enigma to me, possibly the product of adept politics, I thought he had real value. I hope, in time, he’ll say his piece, but my bet is that the lotus fiasco wrapped him in non disclosure. Darn sure that putting a lid on what really went down was the better half of value to the “winners”.
That dirty little affair spoiled for me two teams.
The present Lotus I’d like to like more.
Anything that took Tony away from paying attention to Caterham could have been more important than we can know.
I’m sorry to say also that had he devoted to one deal, and exited, I would allow him that, with all the uncertainty caused by the steering group, JT et.al. But I feel he has done himself a injustice, as it stands.
The excitement of his entry was largely attached to how appealing the prospect of a well managed well funded team might climb.
Instead, despite untouchable management .. or maybe because of a show of pride to who would not recognize it, FI are the team I am most drawn to.
Aabar? Falcon Private Bank?
Hi Joe,
Any word on what will happen to Caterham Composites (Germany) and Caterham Technology and Innovation (Norfolk) ?
No idea but they are not related to the F1 team as far as I know. I don’t even know if the first still exists.
Joe there are rumours that Caterham is being sold to Middle East connections also associated with McLaren. It occurs to me that this might signal Caterham becoming the equivalent of STR for the McLaren group. It might make sense given the machinations of the Strategy Group: it would, in particular enable McLaren to run drivers like S.VD and KM to get them ready for the big time. Blooding new drivers is a huge issue today given the restrictions on testing and it sounds as if it’s only going to get worse next year if they kill FP1.
I don’t know the identity if the buyers, but if there is a McLaren link it would be a parallel investment, not an integrated one. I suppose it could be a TAG or Mumtalakat move, as both are believed to be looking to reduce their involvement in McLaren.
I believe it to be a Mumtalakat move.
Independently I have heard strange stories about Caterham trucks being sighted near Woking. Odd.
Probably on the M25
Robin, on Saturday I was driving down the M25 (passing the Woking exit) and I saw two Torro Rosso trucks… maybe they had been to Woking too?? Or maybe they were heading to Silverstone?? However, Leafield is NORTH of London, and to come back from / go to any European truck based race, they will travel down the M40, M25, M26, M20 to the EuroTunnel… so naturally the trucks will pass Woking… That’s like saying Lewis signed for Ferrari when he happened to go to Italy to collect his new car…
Oh right! So why we’re they near Woking when Silverstone, which is where I used to live for 3 years is north and nearer The factory in Oxfordshire? And last week as well! Perhaps the STR guys got lost as well that would explain everything! Except why Caterham were going south a week after the Austrian GP….well it certainly looked like they turned up. Sort of.
RedBull already has 4 cars under it’s control, if say Caterham got involved with Mac, would this be the start of the small teams becoming No2 teams for some of the big teams, so that Mac could have 4 cars running, and maybe Ferrari would etc etc?
What a shame the whole affair is. Cyril was never the right choise even though you said he had hidden talent. Tony picked the wrong management team and is now paying the price. I’m sure he will blame the budget cap blah blah blah but he is squarely to blame for his failure. He will never admit to it as billionaires rarely look closely in the mirror.
F1 is a bit more complicated than you seem to think.
Joe there is nothing complicated about F1. Its a commercial and technical war and if you put only lawyers and business dev’t guys in charge then you are doomed. Marussia have out performed Caterham because TP Booth is a racer and Cyril was an accountant, Simple not complicated.
Problem is Cyril is not an accountant. Nice idea, shame about the facts.
Why does TF have such problems because he is a rich man? He made his own money, fair and square. Unlike many, I have never heard of any trail of dirt behind him, and that is a very unusual result given human nature being as low as it is, capable of generating dirt for dirt’s sake. Possibly, oh, just possibly, the impression people get of him being a good guy might just be the right one.
On the contrary, he probably got where he has got to precisely by looking in the mirror. And some luck, and some brains, and a disproportionate amount of charm. And don’t underestimate the being a good guy thing. Not f’ing everyone over is, contrary to much supposition, good for business.
I think he lost the plot a bit, and I’m upset he didn’t pay attention to the F1 team and stick to that, for heaven’s sake stick to one thing… but saying he can’t look himself in the mirror… which to me implies he has immorality to hide.. at least make the accusation clear what he did wrong.
> I have never heard of any trail of dirt behind him
Have you read the full ruling on the Lotus / Lotus case? Or the judge’s remarks at a later hearing to the effect that he’d been misled?
I did read, but there was much besides I didn’t like. I was disappointed in the whole. But I think there was misjudgment not willful intent, and I think it felt to me like a marketing holy grail being sought, with twisted morals all the way on both sides. Tony did not acquit himself well, but I got a sense he was confused, ill advised, inclined to bluster, and had taken it on in good faith. All in all a miserable little affair. I think the judge was misled, I think, and I came very close to figuring it out, but the case was not public, in my comments, I started unraveling the deal Tony had been sold. When in the unknown, people dream, even the very best of them. When it feels right, maybe the less you know the more you dream. Something of a experience of mine…
Joe, could there be a team name change for the 2015 season, since the new owners would have no connection to the Caterham car business?
I don’t know but it is logical.
How about Wartburg?
Great idea. “Wartburg F1”. I’m sure Bernie would love it.
Hopefully for the road car businesses sake – the road cars are much better than the racing cars.
They are
Sad news but no surprise. Fernandes should have gone after the FIA for not having delivered the promised budget cap.
A bit strange that TF didn’t even bother to attend a race this season. That was very different from his early enthusiasm.
I wonder what this all means for Robin Frijns as there is little news on his activities lately.
I saw him set a world record at a kart event in Ischgl over the weekend. 0-60MPH in about 3.1secs in an entirely electric cart. Really impressive bit of kit.
At least he will get another run out at Silverstone for FP1.
No big surprise. This scenario plays itself out at all levels of racing on a regular basis. The egotistical businessman who is sure that success in racing will come by repeating what made them rich in their other ventures. No race-driving experience, check; No other previous experience in racing, check; Hiring a stranger to run the team because you don’t know how and don’t have the time anyway, check; Using a famous name for instant gratification instead of long term hard work to make your own legend, check. These guys come and go.
I completely agree with you and it makes me think that for all the criticism that Joe pours over VJM, they’re doing a bloomin good job.
Think about it. Do I criticise the team? No. Vijay is not the team. He is the owner. It’s entirely different. Learn the difference.
He’s far more than just the owner, he’s the team principal.
Besides, if you want to get picky then strictly he only owns a portion of their complex ownership structure.
The team principal is Cyril Abiteboul
That’s Caterham, not Force India!
If my memory is correct you are a Board member of the company so you must be handcuffed in what you may report?
If you stop and think about it, your comment is pretty offensive. It basically suggests that I have no ethics. I would not be on the board of an F1 team, it would be an obvious conflict of interest and I would have turned down the offer (or accepted it and given up journalism). I am a board member of Caterham Cars. This builds exciting road cars. It has no involvement in the F1 programme. It is fascinating to see another side of the automobile industry. I am amazed that people are incapable of seeing the difference. Caterham F1 is not a division of the car company (a la Ferrari). Do you also think that Eric Boullier can dictate the colour of the windscreen wipers of a McLaren road car?
Met a Seven on Highway 1 north of San Francisco today. That car on that road…
Have you taken one of the road cars out for a spin? A bit different from the Prius, eh?
I don’t think Sonny was being intentionally offensive Joe. It is well known that you are a Director of Caterham Cars, which as you say is not the same thing as the F1 entity. However, if one is not fully versed in the machinations of Ltd Co’s, it is a very easy mistake to make, to think that they may be fully interconnected. A mistake is not a reason to get prickly!
It’s just boring to have to go over the ground over and over and over.
I was referring to the auto company speculation Joe.
More a miss-understanding than offensive maybe. Maybe the bad press journalists are getting from phone hacking is rubbing off on F1 too now :).
If I thought that I’d quit the business
Joe, I might sometimes get as pissed as you at these sort of comments, but I can’t help thinking you have over time become less gracious in countering them. I don’t assume offence is intended, for example. I think it is right for people to hold journalists accountable and to the highest standards. Fair question. Fair reply. No offence should be inferred or assumed to be intended. Sending the idea packing is a different thing from sending a imaginary adhominem packing. I’m grumpy just thinking what utter tripe is hurled at you all day long, and challenge anyone to be as courteous and permissive of dissent, no less on a blog explicitly intended for personal experiment not public service, but you are being held to the highest standards out of respect, ninety nine percent of the time. Once you realize the poverty of journalism as it is felt outside of the job itself, not saying you are insentient to that either, but allowing that, maybe you could not see these things so personally. Your blog is a personal thing. Ethics in journalism is not a personal thing. Don’t let people conflate the two just because there might be a personal undertone in the question.
Says me, letting my first sentence be halfwittedly inflammatory, because I have assumed in the development of this blog a sense that concerns as to integrity should have diminished, and so reason to take anything personally diminished in lock step. I hope that makes sense, i.e. the world ain’t against you and all that, sorry Joe, from someone who is as thick and thin skinned as they come.
With all respect but it’s assumable for us outsiders to think that you know more than you are (allowed) letting out.
While you’re on the board of Caterham Cars it’s not unlikely you heard a few things about Caterham F1.
I don’t think he mend it as an attack but just innocent curiosity. One thing the internet lacks is the ability give words the right emotion.
With all due respect, you have no idea how this works.
For others reading this, I believe I understand the structure (names are approximate for clarity). Caterham Ventures (CV) owns the brand. Caterham F1 runs the F1 team and licences the brand from CV. Caterham Cars runs the road car side and licences the brand from CV. Other enterprises exist, too (Caterham Hotels for instance?).
Joe sits on the Caterham Cars board. They don’t own the brand, so that board doesn’t even necessarily have an input as far as brand use is concerned.
Clearly CV have decided to sell Caterham F1. Joe is in neither of those camps. He may hear rumours, but it is doubtful that they’re better than others’ rumours. And board meetings won’t be every week 🙂
True and true.
‘(Caterham Hotels for instance?)’
I believe Tony Fernandes owns Tune hotels, too. There’s one adjacent to Elephant and Castle tube station in London, if I recall correctly.
He could have asked whether Joe was restricted in what he could report. I’m sure Joe would be honest enough to say “Discretion prevents me from broaching X topic”.
But he flat out stated that Joe was ‘handcuffed’.
Translation: Joe ain’t being straight with us.
I would interpret that as rude.
So would I
Let’s not forget that English isn’t everyone’s native language and therefor people might choose the wrong words for what is supposed to be an innocent question.
Don’t be too judgmental.
Perhaps Bambino buys it for $1.00 ????? 🙂
I’m SHOCKED! SHOCKED to hear TF is dumping his F1 team, after “experts” said he was doing all the right things. Right hires, moving to where the talent is, taking on that nasty DB guy and even engine/gb choice.
HRT results on a way higher budget = pissing huge sums of money away. Yes, I’m shocked!
NOT!
😆
Good to see that are as negative as ever. It is comforting that some things never change.
This is a bit of a kick in the teeth for Sauber isn’t it? Or am I being too simplistic/nationalistic? 😉
Where is Mike Gascoyne? Has he disappeared into the F1 Bermuda Triangle with Martin Whitmarsh?
Yes
Mike Gascoyne has been back at his desk at Caterham Technology and Innovation in Hingham, Norfolk recently (hardly ever there for months prior to that). Draw your own conclusions.
His car accident when on his way to work there last week was widely reported.
I think that’s a little harsh on Mike Gascoyne’s sailing navigation skills, but yes he seemed to lose interest fairly quickly presumably when he saw the budget difference’s weren’t going to change.
Is he still at the car side, or the composite side of things Joe?
Craig Pollock…? We haven’t heard from him since his PURE concept.
Come to think of it… it’s been at least three years since Jacques Villeneuve has declared his intention to return to F1!
thanks for the chuckle.
So you are on the board of Caterham Cars Group – which has only one subsidiary, Caterham Cars Ltd, but you are not on the board of that. Is that the trading entity?
Interesting though that everyone on Caterham Cars Ltd’s board is also on the F1 team’s board.
If you don’t like it, don’t read the blog and don’t waste my time with comments.
Let it go! Joe’s explained the position around 5000 times. There is no conspiracy.
On another note, interesting that Martin Whitmarsh is still a director of the F1 team, group and car company at McLaren, so presumably could still get involved in a windscreen wiper colour discussion!
all you arm chair experts need to listen to Joe … he is very rarely, if ever wrong in his facts or his opinion… he writes this blog for your benefit…. Accept that F1 is a subject you will not get to know well unless you are part of it …. sitting on the the edge of the track as it were will not give you the insight that reading Mrs Sawards blog will , with th eforma being full of B*llocks & BullS*it !!
Here! Here!
(and there and everywhere)
Fact is Tony was simply a bluffer in F1 with more money then sense. He stole somebody’s dream of bringing Team Lotus back to F1 and tried to call it his own. He was snubbed by Petronas then Proton then all of Malaysia for being too sharp for his own good.He listened to the wrong people and got ripped off badly.He thought he could compete with Luca Ron and Frank whilst doing it part time.He started the whole venture with bad Karma and it came to bite him in the rear. He will be happy in the PL.
no he wasn’t, he was given rights to team lotus name first in a legitimate deal, it was Dany Bahar that tried to screw with it. Well he managed to get an f1 team together and on the grid for four years no mean feat in itself. Continued on it even though he was betrayed by the budget cap not being introduced. you may have a over simplistic view of how F1 works. errr it was Sauber snubbed by Petronas for Mercedes if I remember right. he wasn’t snubbed by Proton they already owned the Lotus car company……..nothing to do with TF. Team owners don’t go to every race. I think im right there im sure someone will point out any errors, I see Caterham is sold now with Albjers as team principal.
Any credence to this Christijan Albers for team principal rumour?
No idea
http://www.caterhamf1.com/news/2014/caterham-f1-team-under-new-ownership
Seems like its all true!
I read on a different website (clearly not as informed as you, Joe) the name of Christijan Albers as team principle for the ‘new’ Caterham F1. Have you heard anything about this? Would Christijan be qualified for a job like this, in your opinion (my opinion doesn´t matter here, so I won’t give that)?
Is anyone?
Dutch media are reporting that Christijan Albers is the next team principle for the Caterham team. Have you heard anything about this Joe?
Nope
i’ve a funny feeling you may be right! or it was just up on BBC 🙂 you beat them by 8 hours
so Kolles OMG!! out of the pan and into the fire.
but he will still be better then Cyril
I’m constantly surprised by the number of commenters here who don’t understand who corporate structures and Chinese Walls work, The legal separation between the bit of the Caterham empire Joe is affiliated with and the F1 team means that he *cannot* find out insider information.
More relevantly, Joe, any thoughts on the fact that this seems to imply that Caterham is a more attractive investment than Sauber? I assume that’s down to price – Monisha and her co-owners presumably don’t want to sell but to keep the team going if they can, whereas F looks like he just wants out – and location?
I don’t think anyone was accusing Joe of insider dealing/profiteering. They seemed to be clarification questions to which he lashed out assuming since we read his blog we must know every detail of everything he’s involved in.
I sometimes feel its a different person writing the articles and a different one replying to the comments.
As for Chinese walls: the only effective Chinese wall is the physical structure out in China (not implying anything about Joe and Caterham, I’m making a general comment). Your “surprise” at people not “understanding” them smacks of high handedness. Not everyone has been exposed to things you have.
I have worked at such companies with “Chinese Walls” and one can still find out information. I believe Joe when he says he doesn’t have access to that information, but to imply that it is impossible due to these restrictions is willfully naive. People talk even when bound legally not to. I have seen it first hand within companies worth far more than Caterham and more lawyered up to boot.
Its Kolles with Dany Bahar in the background
I doubt that
well I hope for all Caterham F1 employees and their families that there will be positive news soon, Leafield had enough moments in the past.
TWR, Super Aguri and I hope from the bottom of my heart that Caterham will not be added to that list.
Reblogged this on Auto Marc and commented:
Collin Kolles is back!
Not operationally
John J – absolute rubbish. Whether or not Joe has access to information about other group companies has nothing to do with corporate structures. It has everything to do with a) confidentiality b) whether anyone wants to tell him anything and c) whether he wants to know.
There is no automatic requirement for legal separation of ‘knowledge’ linked to the fact of being a director.
Subject to the A, B and C above if I am a director of company A and someone wants to tell me something about what’s happening with company B, that’s absolutely fine. If they don’t, that’s fine too.
You are barking up a tree that is not there. Save your energy for something useful
Anyway, in the end we have our answer on the Caterham question, from elsewhere on this occasion. Remains to be seen what happens with the GP2 team – are they going to pay rent at Leafield?
Don’t know.
I was recommended this website via my cousin. I am no longer certain whether or not this post is written by him as no one else recognize such certain approximately my trouble.
You are wonderful! Thanks!