It has been a long day. I woke up at bonkers o’clock in order to finish all the work that did not quite get done yesterday and then – once the work was done – there was half an hour or so for a solid English breakfast to send me on my way, through the pretty lanes and villages of Oxfordshire before getting on to the motorway at Banbury, close to the fancy new Prodrive building.
It reminded me that I had not seen David Richards over the Silverstone weekend. I usually do and so concluded that he was probably down in Cornwall, where he owns a couple of hotels (probably more by now). DR used to be the big cheese at Aston Martin until a year or ago, but it has all been sold now, although I did see the CEO Andy Palmer on the grid on Sunday. We even had a chat about the story of Aston in F1 before some rude TV crew arrived like the blitzkrieg (as they tend to do) and bundled mere mortals like me out of the way. I get that they are under pressure, but “please” and “thank you” are the usual way of doing things.
I think there is some sound logic in an Aston F1 plan, but I don’t see it happening because Aston hasn’t got the kind of cash required. My spies at Gaydon tell me that a number of F1 teams have been spotted there in the last few months and it was no great surprise that the rumours related to Christian Horner. He’s an Aston Martin driver, comes from that part of the world and would like a car manufacturer other than Renault for Ref Bull Racing. However I don’t see Mercedes badging its F1 engines, as this might undermine the message, even if a Mercedes-Aston Martin deal does work as an industrial alliance. The truth is that F1 programmes are very often more about corporate ego than good sense…
Anyway, the story did F1 no harm and I do fervently believe that Aston would love to be in the sport, if the money could be found. And we’d love to have them. The more the merrier…
Anyway, F1 did itself a pile of good on Sunday with a decent race and a great crowd. I wonder if the Strategy Group people spotted this from their ivory towers. For me the crowd was a very clear message: F1 is not about the noise nor the speed. It is about heroes. Lewis Hamilton is the hero and the grandstands were full. By the way, did anyone notice that the supposedly dull and slow F1 cars qualified seven seconds a lap faster around Silverstone than the supposed 1,000+ horsepower wundercars of WEC, despite their super technology?
So I would say: “Stop wasting energy blah-blahing in meetings looking for problems that are not there and get to work promoting the drivers and the technology. And stop talking the sport down and then blaming the media for reporting it”. If the promoter did a better job promoting and creating better TV coverage, and engaging with the fans without trying to squeeze more money from them, it would help.
The governing body might try to find some fancy new technology that the manufacturers want (like laser ignition) and should put that into the rules, to give F1 the chance for a second attempt at telling the world about its technology. Thankfully the numbskull who used to be head of communications has been booted out of the federation and the new one should be able to plan a suitable campaign to go with new breakthroughs.
I think it would be good to have the FIA refuse to issue superlicences to F1 drivers unless they commit to three promotional days each year for the sport (not for road safety campaigns but rather for something useful for the sport). The teams should be told to let their drivers be themselves and say what they think, rather than being dull and saying “no comment” on all occasions. Finally the pit lane speed limit should be thrown away…
Anyway I was ruminating on all of this as I made my way down the M40 to the M25, where I overtook a Toro Rosso convoy just as we were passing Brooklands…
Now I am back on French soil and heading for Paris…
joeblogsf1 
Jo!
You if all people want a fake Aston Martin motor which is a badge engineered AMG-MB ???
Amnon
Sent From iPhone
>
First of all the name is Joe. Second of all, it is called marketing. It happens a lot. The chances are that the car you drive has parts from other manufacturers. Secondly, don’t you have the guts to use your own name?
The shiny ‘new’ Prodrive factory is the old Hella Manufacturing Plant that I was heavily involved with in the late 1990’s. Then having built and invested heavily upped sticks to the Czech Republic putting 800 people on the dole. Prodrive got a nice site.
Are you sure? There is a brand new new Prodrive factory
The sight you may have seen from J11 M40 that was Prodrive is being re-built as out of town shopping. I thought you could only see it heading north on the M40 though.
I believe the Richards and Horner families are quite close. I thin Arden started business from one of Prodrives units many years ago.
Didn’t Prodrive build a new building next to the existing ones there?
Not next to but about half a mile away
http://www.costar.co.uk/en/assets/news/2011/September/LXB-drives-into-Banbury-site/
No it’s brand new. I work next door to their old plant (soon to be retail) and have watched the new building go up.
Hi Joe. I couldn’t quite follow your comment on Christian Horner being an Aston Martin guy. Where’s a connection there?
Did he not buy Geri a nice DB6 for a wedding pressy ?
Doesn’t he drive a vintage one?
Pretty sure its about Horner actually driving an Aston Martin himself and being a big fan of the brand (also gave one to Halliwell as a wedding present http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/geri-halliwells-new-husband-christian-5706059)
He told me last week he drives an Infiniti (!). Remember that he used to be David Richards’s next door neighbour… So he probably got a deal on an Aston Martin
Wonder if its a Sebastian Vettel edition FX50? LOL.
Oh, makes sense Inifiniti would probably be pretty unimpressed if “their” team principal turned up with a rival brand at the races!
Joe, you made a slightly sniffy mention of the speed difference between F1 and the LMP1s, but there’s more to it than that, as I’m sure you know. An LMP1 weighs around 170kg more than an F1 car. We count the weight effect as being around 0.4s per lap per 10kg, so the LMP1s are handicapped by 6.8 seconds per lap in qualifying spec. I appreciate that you are a big F1 fan, but in terms of weight-adjusted pace the two are very close.
I was pointing out that all the BS circulating after Le Mans was exactly that
So let’s see an F1 car run for 24 hours.
I am told that they could given the living on the parts these days.
The form of Honda (and even Renault for that matter) would suggest otherwise..
What post Le Mans BS?
Haha – “weight adjusted”. That’s the best fanboy comment I’ve ever heard! They weigh what they weigh! If the F1 cars were “power adjusted” they’d be even quicker….
However, in the race, the F1 fastest lap was a 1:37.093, and WEC was a 1:40.836. That’s 3.7 s difference, which is rather impressive on the WEC side. It’s also a second quicker than Manor managed with either car.
Also, since 2014’s fastest lap was set on the 26th lap of a fully dry race, not much of a case can be made for the wet finish removing the possibility of a better fastest lap right at the end; unless, of course, Hamilton was nursing the lead.
What I find most interesting is that they’re only 0.1 s quicker this year than 2014.
What BS? No one was claiming LMP1 cars were as fast as F1 cars. Stop making stuff up.
Go and read the blog comments around Le Mans time.
The fastest LMP1 race lap was 1.40, set 4hrs into a 6hr race.
The fastest F1 race lap was 1.37, set after 26 Laps. The rest of the finishers set 1.37, 1.38 & 1.39 laps, with the two tailenders setting 1.41 & 1.42 respectively.
Given the 170kg weight disadvantage, and running over 3x the race distance, not too shabby.
Marvelous. The point was made to show that those who got carried away after Le Mans needed a reality check. They still do.
but those getting carried away after one entertaining F1 race do not?!
Anyone who thought Williams were going to get anywhere close to winning that race were the ones needing a reality check. The race (with the exception of Vettel finishing third due to the intervention of mother nature) was still predictable. Conversely, could I tell whether Rossi or Marquez was going to win at Assen two weeks earlier? Not even by the 2nd to last corner of the final lap. WEC is not what F1 should be comparing itself to when it comes to the highest calibre of racing as ‘a show’ but MotoGP.
I yearn for the days when i knew so little of F1 I would have thought Williams could win it…
/The fastest F1 race lap was 1.37, set after 26 Laps/
You might have not noticed that there was some rain in the second 26 laps and therefore cars weren’t going as fast as one might expect when they got lighter.
And LMP1 cars are refueled couple of times in the race, don’t they?
And once someone mentioned the weight difference, he might also remember the engine size difference.
The point is there nonetheless.
I love the WEC but 35,000 people over their weekend at Silverstone means F1 with 350,000 at the Grand Prix is still in a league of its own.
Plus I should think that with the extra mass of an LMP1 car and the need to last longer, the tyres of the sports car are not as “fast” as F1 rubber.
Phil Gannon, Wow! Some people would start an argument in an empty room, we didn’t get to see the F1 ultimate race pace as by the time the fuel had got low enough it was raining.
While that seems plausible, the fastest lap in 2014 was set on lap 23, a few laps before 2015’s fastest lap was set, and that race was fully dry.
Aside from weight, one should also quote the fuel usage… they are also not the same. The WEC cars are impressive technology.
And I’m sure you will tell us.
Interesting to see you comment about grandstands. Watching on TV, I noticed a couple sections that were not very full. One in particular was nearly empty. It concerned me because Silverstone is usually packed to the gills.
I’m not trying to be contrarian, mind you, just pointing out something that stood out while I watched the race.
It was sold out
There must’ve been an awful lot stuck in traffic then, because I saw the same empty stand seats that JM did, maybe they were the discounted seats.
Believe what you want. It was a sellout.
Many football/cricket tournaments claim a ‘sell out’ however when one digs deeper, that does not translate to attendance on the day. Irrespective of whether the empty grandstands were due to non-attendance of paying customers or corporate hospitality no-shows, an empty grandstand is still an empty grandstand and does not portray the right image.
Almost certainly because it had been sold to one or more companies for hospitality. Either those companies failed to sell on or if they were a large sponsor (vodafone usually take a grandstand) they did not fill it.
I sat in one of the Club grandstands and opposite us, on the infield of the last section of the Vale, was a hospitality grandstand that was around half empty during the race. It look like it was run by Cheniere.
After reviewing my photos, it doesn’t look like it was a Cheniere grandstand. They seemed to have their own balcony. It was the grandstand that runs along the pit entry lane and it was no more than 45% full I’d guess.
I think John may be referring to the stand opposite farm curve (on the inside of the track and just by the pit exit). This was 99% empty. Any ideas Joe?
Silverstone nominate some grandstand tickets as “roving grandstands” so there are some areas that spectators can move from one to the other. This may be why some seemed “empty”. Its a good example of why they are doing a much better job these days…
Seymour – the roving grandstand seats are for Fri/Sat if I recall correctly. If you’ve got a weekend ticket with a fixed seat for Sunday, you can try different viewing points earlier in the weekend
If there were genuinely 140,000 souls on site on Sunday, and it did look good, that is only a guide to how many regular ticket holders among them, and it is upon them that the future of Silverstone depends.
You’ve obviously got to remove teams, marshals, security, emergency services, contractors, traders, caterers and suppliers from that figure. And competitors, media, broadcasters, race officials, and VIPs. And Paddock Club and FOM-owned hospitality. All of whom are counted in each day.
What’s left is the genuine figure in terms of the revenues that must pay FOM its £16.8 million – plus a couple of million for the venue’s own overheads and promotion. The grandstands looked great at the weekend but, back in March, Silverstone got a bit desperate about how low the advance sales were and started shoving out tickets at a whopping discount.
Not a bad idea – not just for the public, but also several companies who bulk bought tickets at still greater discount as an alternative to hospitality. So, yes, there were more bums were on seats – but were there enough and at what cost?
Firstly, it’s seriously annoyed the long-suffering and dedicated minority who book their places as soon as they can in order to get their preferred seat at an ‘early bird’ discount – which was considerably more than the prices subsequently offered from March onwards. They feel let down.
They are a minority at the GP but for the rest of the year they are the ones who come back to watch touring cars and club meetings.
Secondly, it’s a dangerous precedent to go discounting quite so heavily when the circuit remains committed to handing over £18 million in 2016. After all, once they’re through the gate, not one penny spent on caps, burgers, programmes and beer goes to Silverstone.
Hopefully the new management is as sensible as it seems and is busily pricing 2016 based on its receipts from this year. But we must all hope that a long-term solution can be found to FOM’s fee – although doubtless that hope was carried German and French fans as well.
I wondered about that too, but I suspect that it was actually the *rear* of a stand in a compressed depth-of-field view…
Might have been a hospitality stand? There were a few of them last time I went a couple of years ago and from experience I can say that *some* of the people you find in the expensive seats are more interested in the free food than the racing.
The only empty grandstands were for the posh corporate areas, every other blade of grass was taken
So Joe was drop the Pit lane speed limit comment just to see if anyone was reading this on a Monday or did some pit crew piss you off over the weekend? Not a hope that anyone would consider that as an option in the health and safety world we live in….. Not sure why you thought this improves the show? Unless they hand out points for dead bodies death race style. You are going to have to defend that one somehow.
That comment jumped out at me as well. The speed limit is there for the safety of everybody in the pit lane. There has been a reduction in incidents since its introduction, apart from wheels not being fitted properly before the car is released. That triggered response to reduce the number of people in the pit lane.
Joe, are you willing to give greater insight into your reasoning/thoughts for the comment?
Thanks
Kevin
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
Coudn’t agree more.
Hi Joe, I’m with you on the pit lane speed limit, looking back on old races before the limit was introduced it’s amazing someone wasn’t injured every race but back then there (looks like) was no restriction on how many people could be in the pit lane, pit stops looked like stages from a Portuguese rally from that time with the cars doing Moses impressions. I don’t see why it couldn’t be done with some tweaks to the rules regarding cars being side by side in the pit lane. Get Stirling Moss in as the health and safety officer to oversee it 😉
I wonder whether Giovanni Amadeo would agree that strategy options with regard to pit stops were more important than his personal wellbeing but unless anyone knows a reliable medium it’s difficult to be certain. And that was only in practice. Yes, motor sport will always have some element of danger but exposing non-combatants to potentially fatal risks for the sake of “strategy options” seems to me to be a bit off.
Personally I’d prefer a return to the days when a pit stop in a dry race meant you lost unless you did something REALLY special afterwards, like Jim Clark at Monza in ’67, but then I’m hopelessly old-fashioned.
“We”? You work in the pit lane during races?
We is an expression about F1 in general. No, I don’t work in the pitman during races, but I have done in the past. Today we are not allowed to.
Remind me what risk you’re taking in the press room?
Having to deal with a million smart asses…
On form today Joe!
yeah I thought that was a bit left field. I was looking for the sarcasm but couldn’t find it so not sure if Joe’s serious or not. After watching Massa and Rosberg side by side and at least one pit crew being out I cant see it being changed…. Got the reaction Joe was hoping for though (from me anyway) 🙂
Is there a pit lane speed limit in WEC?
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
I agree with the sentiment – let the grown ups race in the manner they want to. However the Health & Safety brigade won’t stand for it I fear.
Yes all circuits and series have pit lane speed limits these days.
Thanks for mentioning Brooklands……….
………. I get a bit fed up with people telling me that Silverstone or Le Mans or Indianapolis invented circuit racing. 😉
Love Brooklands. Stayed at the hotel a few months back and spent a glorious day at the museum. It helped that the VSCC happened to be carrying out their annual time trials that day, but still – well, well worth a visit if you’ve not been.
I liked the “I think it would be good to have the FIA refuse to issue superlicences to F1 drivers unless they commit to three promotional days each year for the sport”
Tongue in cheek I wondered whether my suggestion in an earlier blog reply about licences being issued subject to competing in other categories etc got the ‘old grey cells’ working!
I have an adolescent boy in my house, and he loves Lewis. He doesn’t care at all about Nico, Seb, Kimi or Fernand. He knows Lewis through his Instagram account, and because Lewis looks (and acts) very much like the other famous athletes that boys tend to follow. There is more to a sport than lead changes and lap times. There also need to be heroes, villains, and a plot. Lewis has done a fantastic job of making an emotional connection to the fans, which is no mean feat. He’s also managed to make an F1 fan out of a 10 year old American boy, something the sport needs more of.
For the majority of fans Kimi is the #1, followed by Fernand and Jenson, as the newest F1 survey proved. No mention of Lewis there.
The point of the comment is not about which driver is more popular. It relates to how certain drivers connect with an audience.
Banteamorders I think the point Ecurie was making is that a young chap liked Lewis, not the majority of F1 fans who are over 30. Therefore if F1 wants a future it had better engage with the teen generation as Lewis seems to do more than the others.
Kimi is number one among the sort of people that like to take the time to fill out surveys. I think that tells you more about the type of people that took the survey rather than the relative popularity of the drivers.
An F1 fan or a Lewis fan?
Every F1 Fan starts off primarily as a driver fan, but when that driver retires or passes on, you find a new hero in the sport.
“Every F1 Fan starts off primarily as a driver fan” – methinks the millions of tifosi would have issue with this statement.
I didn’t.
I think that’s dead on. I’d have loved to have seen a Williams win at Silverstone – and that all goes back to being a Mansell fan at the age of about 10.
I think a Lewis fan.
Interesting insight. I’m not a fan of the way he carries on with his faux-rapper lifestyle, but then again, if he’s bringing in new fans, then who am I to judge?
I think the important fact to remember is that Lewis is reaching a new generation and he’s doing it in America, where F1 is less popular than other sports. If Lewis’ bling makes one of my kids sit and watch a race with me, I’m fine with that.
I agree. I have a 14 year old (also in America) who has been a fan of F1 since he was little, but primarily because I am a fan. I have noticed him becoming a fan for his own reasons and interests in the last couple of years, one of them being that Lewis allows his fans to have access through social media. He does like the other drivers, but he definitely relates more to Lewis. People love to have a hero. Young fans are no exception.
I’m not sure about the “pit lane speed limit” idea, on safety grounds.
However, the mandatory promotional days could fly. Just imagine LH or FA turning up – without huge corporate and press pre-exposure – at a random junior karting event, strapping in and racing against the kids…
On the other hand, with that rule in place I can’t see Kimi getting his licence renewed.
The real hero of the race was rain.
Without it, the local hero would have driven countless snoozy hand-tied laps behind a couple of Williams and today’s social media theme would have been how these awesome machines can’t overtake and the sport doesn’t allow the best drivers to win.
No it was a good race without the rain
Joe I agree, the way Lewis fought for position with Bottas in that first lap was pure joy. I was on the edge of the seat in fear, same as the safety car restart, but hey, thats what has been missing and I loved every moment. Proper good old fashioned seat of the pants. More please.
Without the Williams superb launch and the rain, it would have been another incredibly boring one-stopper.
Too few cars were competing, a full grid of equalised cars has to be a better basic proposition.
A Lewis, Nico, Seb WDC and Merc, Ferrari, Williams WCC has been the most likely outcome since Malaysia.
But with that launch and rain, it was a blooming amazing race.
If all the cars had broken down on the grid… They didn’t. It wasn’t a procession. It was a race.
Assen two weeks earlier was a proper race. Look at how Rossi and Marquez diced with each other until the very last lap and when contact was made and one vehicle forced to cut a corner both competitors merely shrugged it off in the post race interviews – no moaning/complaining or sniping at one another. Silverstone in comparison was still predictable – I made another healthy profit at the bookies without even watching the full race (again).
I thought it a great race. Moto GP often has processions, Honda now have some competition at last. Without Rossi Moto GP would often be tedious.
Compare the number of overtakes that take place in MotoGP to F1 and you will see which series is the more processional. I am unable to predict the outcome of MotoGP races yet frequently do so for F1 – perhaps you’d like to wager the top 2 riders for the next race? I daresay Hamilton and Rosberg will be top dogs for Hungary.
In MotoGP Honda are nowhere this season – until they reverted to parts of the 2014 bike (not a long term solution), they were behind Ducati on pace as well as Yamaha. We even saw a Suzuki take pole in their first season back.
As for Rossi, let’s not forget that we had Casey Stoner tame the Duke where Rossi failed. Lorenzo has also proved his superior over the course of a season on multiple occasions and is currently leading the championship. Both Dovi and Iannone have given Italian fans much to cheer about while Crutchlow continues to punch above his weight on a satellite bike.
I disagree. Impossible to compare the one to the other. Bikes take up very space compared to F1 cars for a start so, at least in the early stages of the race, it appears to be more competitive. Most races end up with the same riders near the top and not every race ends as it did in Assen. Last year was a Honda fest, as you say this year they have some competition. The cream rises to the top in both disciplines. Fine, you prefer Moto GP, no one forces you to watch F1 Bob.
I agree that not every race ends as it did in Assen however those that do are an order of magnitude higher in proportion than in F1. I can list a dozen races over the past 12 months that were gripping to the very end in MotoGP, I struggle to do the same for F1 (which has more races each season).
I disagree that a comparison is impossible. All categories of motorsport have differences. MotoGP has more in common (in certain ways) with F1 than for instance WEC, Formula E and/or Rallying (and we’ve seen a fair few enthusiasts from those series draw comparisons). Indeed, if by your own argument the same riders end up near the top in MotoGP (although its funny how the Ducatis, and Dovizioso in particular, were nowhere today at Sachsenring yet were the 2nd fastest bikes at the beginning of the season), then this in itself would be extremely similar to F1. I’d also argue that the early stages of a race is also when there’s the greatest level of excitement/competition in F1 – again, the similarities make the comparison more compelling, not less – by your own admission.
I would also disagree that last year was a ‘Honda fest’. Any ardent MotoGP follower would tell you that last year’s success was predominantly down to the rider who was out-riding his machinery and make it do things that defied the laws of conventional riding. Look at his nearest challengers – they were the Yamahas, not his own teammate (who is experienced and no slouch himself). In previous era of F1, it was possible for drivers to perform beyond the normal limitations of their machinery however this is no longer possible – a good example was Alonso in his Minardi.
While MotoGP is now my primary motorsport interest today, it was F1’s decline as a true sporting contest that led to that situation – many others have gravitated away too – this is directly related to the article that we’re both responding too, hence my contribution. I follow both series (as well as other forms of motorsport too), however find the current state of mismanagement in F1 very sad and disappointing to witness. Joe has kindly provided this social media platform for discussion and I am simply use it to air that grievance much in the same way you’ve expressed your own views Stephen.
That is true, no denying that. However you’re wrong to say there was no sniping between Rossi and Marquez – Marquez still doesn’t accept he lost, accusing Rossi of cutting the corner. Still, interesting exchange – to continued!
he was ahead before the rain…
I’m going to hazard a guess that one of those rude reporters had a notebook. LOL
Why do you want to get rid of the pit lane speed limit? I’m a bit surprised by that idea.
Your little POS car (your words, I believe) overtook a Torro Rosso? Wow, those Renault engines are worse than I thought! 😉
Joe drives a hybrid (Prius) doesn’t he? Seems like Toyota’s MGU-K works better than Renault’s entire ERS 🙂
The better and more accurate question should be ; Why were so many of the grandstands 30-75% empty with a couple completely lacking anyone in the seats ? As for the TV numbers : suffice it to say F1’s TV numbers from this weekend would have to look up just to see rock bottom in comparison to every other major televised sporting event that was broadcasted over the three days .
As to many of the cures you’ve been offering up lately in order to fix F1 Joe ? Suffice it to say you’re focusing solely on the symptoms while completely ignoring the central disease that is ravaging F1 and that is bad business as well as bad medicine
The place was at capacity
And what is capacity btw?
Did the race promoter turn a tidy profit then?
That’s two comments that have said some grandstands were empty and yet your response is that the event was sold out ,perhaps all those people where at the toilet at those times .
Where the people who made those comments at the event?
You said above that it sold out. But, why did people not attend the race after buying tickets? Seems a bit curious to me.
There are ways to get a sellout of tickets that don’t actually translate to fans in the seats. I don’t know if it’s done in Europe or in F1, but in American sports, corporate sponsors sometimes buy out blocks of tickets to the event so it can be seen on local TV, or so they can say it’s a sellout.
Again, I’m not trying to be negative, I’m just curious.
It was sold out. I have no idea about any empty grandstands. I did not see any.
The thing is there are different parts of grandstands that are nominated for “roving grandstand” tickets, so you can move around the track if you want to.
There may well be more seats than tickets, and those seats are for people with the “roving grandstands” tickets. Also, when I have been to a Grand Prix, you would be surprised at the amount of people that move around or leave their seats to get food/drink go the loo etc (yes even during the Grand Prix!) Perhaps you have never been to a race…
Thank you. That may very well explain what I saw.
Joe, not sure why you’re getting your hackles up over a question. But, whatever, it was just a question. I didn’t have an agenda.
not all of the stands were full but this is due to parking and other things.
You could double the race day attendance if it wasn’t due to certain restrictions. Health and Safety is part of it.
Stone me – the place was sold out. As in, no more tickets. You can’t blame F1 or Silverstone for not selling more tickets than the capacity of the venue.
Football has a little of the same issue – witness Wembley in a cup final or similar and there are often empty seats.
You can’t expect every single seat to be filled 100% of the time.
I was there and it was rammed! We sat in the Vale grandstand and there were no spare seats, the grandstand opposite didn’t appear to be in use at all, maybe it’s an access problem or it needs replacing. I think the likely reason is 140,000 people is the maximum Silverstone can handle, there will be a limit on the number of tickets sold due to safety concerns and it appears that limit was reached. All in, a great day was had by all and the traffic management was very impressive in my view.
Perhaps a better description would be allowed capacity. I think 140,000 was the number mentioned. The empty grandstands indicate Silverstone is capable of seating more than 140,000. But was allowed that maximum due to number of emergency exits, number of available staff and so on. In the airline industry, if one of the doors indicates an error, they limit the passengers on the plane and fly with empty seats.
I have no idea but 140,000 was the number
Its simple, a lot of tickets sold at silverstone were general admission and these allow folks to wander the countless spectator banking’s around the circuit. Why sit in a seat when you can be a hundred yards closer to the track.
I was there on Sunday, Silverstone was absolutely rammed it was amazing to see. Almost back to the glory days of the Mansell era, Hamilton is a God there. Record attendance for 2 decades I believe.
It was definitely sold out. There was an empty grandstand round Becketts/Maggotts way, but this is connected to the hospitality where I guess most people were lunching…..
I was in the general admission area at vale/club corner which was packed and had a great atmosphere. The grandstand opposite had about 10 people in that had wandered over from the corporate hospitality next to it. I assumed everyone else must have still been inside drinking the free champagne.
Not every grandstand is available. The lakeside one for example was empty as was the paddock one, but those tickets were still sold – the fans were simply elsewhere (I.e. The paddock).
I’ve attended for 5 years and I’ve never seen it so packed.
Wait, what? No pitlane speed limit? Was that a joke or are you checking to see if we’re still reading?
As usual, I found myself agreeing with you all the way down and out of the blue you said you think the pit lane speed limit should be thrown away. I’m a little confused as to why you think that? Especially as Massa nearly ran over a certain someone in a Ferrari shirt the other day….
Because it is a good idea if they want to spice up the show. People who don’t know when to cross a pitlane should not be there!
Sorry Joe, but I think you are wrong here, its not about a controlled act of crossing the pitlane but the consequence of a mistake or technical failue with 20 ish innocent mechanice in each pit box……..It was a damn fine race though 😀
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
So, their punishment should be death or dismemberment? Seriously, Joe, I hope this is you just being controversial for the sake of it, otherwise it’s a ridiculous and very ill-thought out idea. The Drivers get paid great amounts to risk their lives, the many different and vital folk in the pit lane do not. A car approaching 150mph and having an accident or malfunction could cause a Le Mans type tragedy. But like I say, I hope you are just playing Devil’s advocate to highlight some of the other ridiculous suggestions made to “improve” the sport.
No, I wasn’t. I’m serious. I find it shocking that you think otherwise. Surely you should up mountains trying to ban people from climbing? If people want Togo racing then they should be allowed to go racing. Obviously in Monaco there would need to be a speed limit but what we have now is too slow.
OK, thats a bit better, maybe the current limits are too slow, but for the sake of those that work in thr pitlane speed does need to be restricted, at all venues.
I think the speed limit is a good reference point for Joe Public to see just how fast these cars actually go. Seeing a car blast down the pit straight at upto 300kph and then seeing a car in the pit lane doing “‘only’80kph or so – something I think people might have a better concept of – gives a good perspective I think
The point I am trying to make is that the slower the car is in the pitlane, the less can be done with strategy. Driving along like little old ladies is lousy for the show.
Well, this is most surprising. I’m very concerned you have so little care for the people of the pit lane that a 700kg projectile traveling towards top speed is something reporters, marshals and pit crew should have to encounter as part of their job. We have seen accidents happen in the pit lane and a massive increase in speed would only serve to increase the risk of injury.
If a mountaineer falls from his line he doesn’t take dozens of lives with him, he is entitled to risk his own neck by taking risks. The safety of pit lane personnel is not yours or the drivers to risk for the sake of seconds. You are being disingenuous with your argument. As someone who talks about absurd suggestions being thrown about for the sake of entertainment you really need to check yourself here as you will find precious few who agree with this idea.
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
It think saying “want racing without danger” is missing the point of some of the posters above. People do indeed want an element of danger and so do a lot of the drivers by all accounts. We also want to see strategy spiced up no end.
However, having cars travelling through the pit lane in a unbridled manner is putting people in the way of unnecessary risk /danger Joe. There are enough near misses with the current speeds. See Don Arrivabene…….and surely he should know how to conduct himself in the pitlane.
Give these people in F1 an inch and they will take a mile. Ultimately that will lead to something bad for the sport.
Wasn’t it Paul Hawkins who said that given the choice between hitting a wall or a crowd of spectators [at the Targa Florio] he’d pick the latter because “people are squashy”?
The pit lane speed limit affects everyone equally though (at least in theory) and I for one would not be particularly happy about having my mobility impaired by a bulky wheel+tyre while some lunatic is approaching the garage next door at 150 mph. Especially if the said lunatic forgets which team he’s driving for like certain British drivers have done in the recent past…
Rain or not, I don’t think Massa & Bottas could have stayed ahead of both Mercs for the duration but Felipe’s start was almost worth the price of admission on its own.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that having a car plough into a team of mechanics at 200+ kph will really spice the show up. Not sure why you would want something different for Monaco, though. Surely more chance of carnage there to add the kind of spice you’re looking for.
While I don’t always agree with you on everything, it’s generally interesting to read your blogs. However, this may be the single dumbest thing you have ever said.
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
Hi Joe, I did reply to you yesterday but I guess it got lost in the post? I agree with you about pit lane speed limits, back in the day they didn’t have pit lane speed limits and they had hundreds of people in the pit lane, agreed Monaco is a tight pit lane and would need a speed limit but the rest of the tracks with their modern wide pit lanes coupled with strong restrictions on who and how many people can be in the pit lane during a race make the speed limit unnecessary, in my opinion. It seems we are in the minority with this view though and as much as I’d like to see a less health and safety approach to F1 I don’t think it will happen
Being the nerd I am, I have been watching old Indycar races on YouTube. When one sees a Lola-Ford careering around an oval at 240mph inches from another car, you are very aware of the possibility of carnage and that is, peversley, why you keep watching. They all know the risk, and it is why they do it. Seeing the skill of one of them threading a needle at these speeds was often breathtaking.
I have also stood close to access holes in safety fences at races and thought “it’s not impossible something could get through there”. For all of us it’s risk versus reward. Provided those involved know and accept the risk, and those who don’t know the risk are protected, then have at it.
The Le Mans ’55 argument is just that. If those who have not accepted the risk of the activity (spectators) get hurt, it is indeed tragedy. But all those working in and around motorsport should know the risks. It is their choice.
I actually think that 90s F1 had it right. You went to classic locations, minimised the risks at tracks (where possible), and worked to make the cars strong enough to prevent injury in all but the very worst accidents.
The move to gigantic run-off insults the skill of the drivers. When one can spin at Abbey chicane at, what, 170mph and barely hit a barrier, the risk, and therefore the spectacle, is set a bit low for what the sport should be.
If there were no barriers for miles around Eau Rouge, then there would have been little to shout about in the Webber/Alonso pass in 2010.
F1 needs a bit of risk to showcase what it’s drivers should be – Heroes.
Poor call Joe, it’s not about idiots crossing the pitlane without looking, it’s about how fast a car you can reasonably expect your pit crew to stand in front of as it comes in, and the consequences for the crews in the next pit boxes down of unsafe releases in front of high speed vehicles in such narrow confines.
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
Well done! You would have thought that the critics would give up after the first three or so cut-and-paste replies of yours.
Now, can you tell us what you REALLY think about pit lane speed limits? LOL
Great race. I now know which race I want to go to next!
I may be wrong Joe, but wasn’t the pit lane speed limit brought in after Gerhard Berger (Estoril one year?) flew out of the pit lane at a cracking speed, lost control, effectively turned left into the path of another car, narrowly avoiding contact? Can’t remember what year though. Truth is that wasn’t, technically, anything to do with the pit lane!
While I do agree that increasing the speed limit would help encourage more strategic possibilities and as a result increase the race variability, taking a devil’s advocate stance on your “if you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting” stance – why mandate F1 cars to have a crash safety cell? By your argument, it is the driver’s prerogative whether he/she drives a vehicle regardless of how safe it is. I would also suggest that re-introducing banking, gravel traps and fewer run off areas would make the racing far more interesting than the abolishment of a speed limit in the pit lane. Indeed, why not bring back racing to the original Nordschleife race track? That would certainly spice up the show!
Clearly no mention of a desire for “racing without danger” from me, Joe, only not increasing danger for pit crew.
If you want to shorten the overall time cost of a pitstop, first have approaches to pit lane shortened &or made navigable at a faster pace. [heck, for a radical approach, have all newly built pits built like toll stations on a motorway, and passed through similarly]
Yes, it has always been and always will be a dangerous sport, and certainly the race drivers sign up to that, but the pit crew?… not so much.
We showed these 30 seconds to the Health and Safety person of a sponsor recently, who said they’d pull out if it was ever like this again! Have to admit it was impressive, and of course nobody thought anything of it… https://youtu.be/72ITS_rYisw?t=50m35s
Silverstone was a great show. I’ve been put off by recent F1, but if it can make an exciting race like that happen, I’ll overlook the lack of noise or low lap times. Watching cars bobble on the wet surface does the trick for this punter. And more Pat Symonds talking strategy with the BBC during the race, please. Thank you. Sorry. Pardon.
A very good race made even better by the rain to spice things up on the glass is half full mode but had it not have rained it would not have been anything special. Everyone knew the mercs would be too strong for Williams and a predictable 1-2 again. normally the old tracks that Bernie hates so much provide the best races and the British fans are happy Lewis is winning. As for the noise, if you have not yet been, I suggest you go to the Goodwood fos. You will see what a nice sounding engine means to the majority of racing fans, and as the noise from the engine is just wasted energy, what a great way to waste energy. But yes a good race on the whole.
I agree – thought it was a good race but not outstanding. Watched on Sky and thought the whole Sky team were way over the top in saying how brilliant it was – smacked of desperation in my view.
So don’t watch
The guy said it was a ‘good race’ yet he is being actively discouraged from taking an interest in the competition due to his view on the broadcasting of it? No wonder F1 finds itself in the situation it is in.
I disagree. Without the rain we’d have been looking at a Merc finishing off the podium unless he got brave.
The first part of your message is correct. The second part is guesswork.
I,m with you all the way on the on the pit lane speed limit
They’re more personnel in the pit lane these days ie team mechanics not to mention most of the top engineers and even CEO’s. This idea of Joe’s hasn’t a hope in hell of succeeding and he knows it – it’s a gentle wind-up to get you guys cogitating!
No, it is not a wind-up. It is an honest attempt to look at ways in which the racing can be improved without throwing the baby out with the bathwater, which makes no sense at all. Yes, of course, there would be more potential danger, but the teams spend very little time in the actual pitlane during a race and it is off-limits to far more people than ever used to be the case. Cars are also going in a straight line so spinning in the pits is not something regularly happens. I don’t see it as being anything like as dangerous as something like refuelling.
Wet weather during Grand Prix should be outlawed. Imagine the rain forcing the drivers to have to lift and slow down like that.
The cheek!
Have a word with God – I mean BE of course!
Here’s an idea I had, which would be cheap to implement and make races more compelling and interactive at the same time:
Every time a team or driver uses the pit to car radio, tweet it.
No more secrets, no more delays, no more selective coverage: let the fans read exactly what’s going through every participants’ mind. It would, once a fortnight, break twitter. And also be fascinating.
Last weekend was 40 years since my first GP at Silverstone,rain spiced that race up also, First time for the new cars for me,standing at Maggots for FP1 on Friday, probably the closest you’ll get to an F1 car at speed,the speed and direction change still awesome but the lack of noise was a bit of a shock, however by the end of the day I got used to them and found it OK.
Never ever seen. Friday so busy. So Sunday must have been rammed.Great show all round. Well done Silverstone
Formula One has always had superstars and heroes who appeal to a certain age group and demographic profile. There is however a fan base who want to watch racing at its purest; man, machine, speed and spectacle.
The current generation of power train kinetic fartboxes don’t really add to the show and make the cars appear slow. GP2 on the other hand had it all with high velocity screaming engines, back firing and the smell of Castrol R40.
Perhaps this is the reason the GP2 race is early on the Sunday morning…
Good race? Nah, Mansell & Piquet in ’87 was a race… you could hear them race too; THAT was F1 😉
I can see you are part of the modern generation…
I dunno. I watched the BBC’s Pride of British Grand Prix show with Murray and Suzy, as well as the movie Grand Prix and the documentary about Hunt vs Lauda… and today’s racing really does seem pretty anodyne by comparison.
(And I was sat a few metres from the start / finish line at Abu Dhabi last November, arguably one of the most exciting places to plonk my arse in the entire season.)
But the very fabric of the racing, from the drivers’ personalities to the shape of the cars, from the sounds of the engines to the overtaking manoeuvres, all seem just a little diluted in this era. I wouldn’t pretend to have a fraction of your insight or experience, but neither am I a fool, and I know what I feel… It seems I’m not so alone in my views either…
Just been watching that race and it struck me that what made it heart in the mouth stuff, was that they were allowed to defend properly, and not just make the one move. Piquet was all over the place trying to stop Mansell get past. Do you think the one defensive move only rule has killed a bit of the excitement?
Race attendance figures are a black art. First off, if fans attend Friday, Saturday and Sunday, they are counted three times over. Then grandstand seating is counted on a seats sold basis, not bums on seats. Blocks of tickets sold/given to corporate sponsors who have no interest in sitting in a field in Northamptonshire results in the empty stands we all saw on telly.
There’s a big difference between “sold out” and “filled to capacity”.
It was sold out and filled to capacity. If some hat-wearing sandwich-nibblers were having their fingernails done at some point, that does not mean the seat were not sold.
“hat-wearing sandwich-nibblers”
Thanks for that, Joe.
Joe
Thanks for this piece.
However, as with a couple of other posters, I was surprised at all the “sold out” and “at capacity” references when there was, on the TV coverage, at least one grandstand that was almost empty.
Granted, it was not at a great vantage point, but the fact that it was so empty throughout the race was curious, given all the statements about capacity attendance.
Other than reiterating the “sold out” comments, could you consider how a grandstand, show repeatedly on TV, be empty if the GP was at full capacity?
Perhaps you could ask the BRDC or other promotors…
Thanks as always.
“F1 is not about the noise nor the speed. It is about heroes.”
So the technology isn’t really important for the show after all?
The above sentence was in an article that assumed the current levels of technology, personally I think we should push harder on the engines because manufacturers need technology and have money to pay for it. The limit should be on the price to customers and the ability to bring in new things. Otherwise you get into the insanity of qualifying engines etc. the current engine regs are about right for developed engines but should give newcomers more scope
I couldn’t agree with you more, drop the pit lane speed limit already, it’s racing, and it makes it too easy to make the undercut in the pit lane, when it’s close that is. Thanks Joe, yourself , David and Mike D. Are in my opinion the most respected out there. Your insight into the weekends are invaluable.
Thanks for all you gentlemen do. This is my first year not being subscribed to gp+ but it is due to my current situation. I will be before the end of the season however.
Would have loved to see the Williams win in front of Sir Patrick Head, his first as a Knight of the Realm. By the way is it not time Mr. John Surtees is Knighted? He has so many firsts under his belt. First dual discipline world champion and an amazing ambassador for Grand Prix and the UK.
Tao
On another note Grand Prix Saboteurs is my favourite novel, as I lost a lot of my original family in Sobibor, it was Great to read the real history.
Hi joe. I caught myself thinking formal e through. Once the drivetrain is sortred, I imagine f1 adopting the technology.
In about 15 years maybe when they can a Grand Prix distance and climb hills, without needing to change cars.
I started the year with high hopes for Formula E but the number of difficult to follow penalties changing results was ridiculous. I lost interest completely by mid season.
Arrivabene might have to take a trip to the opticians if your plans come to fruition!
Really entertaining race although I can’t help feeling that after a great opening stint, Williams bottled it. Nonetheless, great to see the Mercs staring at somebody else’s gearbox for a change.
Can somebody please explain to me why that idiot singing the national anthem thought it would be a good idea to do it with a mid-Atlantic twang. Not only that, she took it upon herself to change the words!
Joe,
Formula 1 cars were only 3 seconds a lap faster than the p1’s according to the fastest lap charts posted by the FIA.
Quite right in all respects. Wasnt it great that Silverstone newbee brought ticket prices down too…
As you say Joe, it’s about the heroes and the racing. WEC might have qualified 7 seconds slower but their race at Silverstone was every bit as good and better than the race won in the pits we saw this weekend. No F1 race in the last recent memory has had that many lead changes on the strength of the drivers and the cars.
I understand you love F1. I do as well, but it’s disappointing to continually read your attempts to promote F1 whilst disparaging the WEC.
Last weekend’s race was the best we had in a while, but the outcome was never in doubt. Sadly it’s hard to believe in a hero when there’s no epic battle to be won. There’s no Prost for Hamilton’s Senna and the rest of the field are just there to make up the numbers.
+1 – You’ve nailed it Ben.
Could Mercedes be convinced to provide the previous years engine to Red Bull and allow it to be badged as an Aston Martin? I believe Manor use last years Ferrari unit, and I would have thought a year old Mercedes would still be better than this years Renault.
I wonder what would have happened had Rosberg and Massa been racing each other abreast down a Silverstone pitlane with no speed limit? Carnage, probably. Good for TV though, I guess.
I think I saw Steven Spielberg in the Merc garage on the TV over the weekend, it did cross my mind to wonder what innovation the movie industry could conjure up simply by being given the F1 live feed.. Maybe a bit of investment in how the race is actually sliced up and transmitted might add something more to the show… (and how about those lovely eye level cameras that IndyCar have been trying – I loved the one on the Wiliams pit crew this weekend..)
George Lucas
I served him in the 90s when I worked in a London cinema. He had no concept of money – seriously, if I’d said his popcorn had cost £50 he’d have said ‘oh ok, cool’. Very innocent, childlike kind of personality.
Anyway, watching Frankenheimer’s Grand Prix properly for the first time the other night I found myself reflecting on how little camera technology seems to have improved since the 60s. The footage of the racing in that movie is electric; no wonder it won 3 Oscars. Surely enlisting the likes of Ron Howard, Lucas or Spielberg (even Michael Bay!) in a consultancy capacity could inject some verve into the spectacle… When two cars follow in a procession on TV it’s pretty sterile, yet in that movie jumping between the cameras angles made it jump from the screen. It seared my eyeballs. Over half a century later it must be possible to match it…
I attended both the WEC and F1 races at Silverstone this year, and saying one is better than another is nonsense really, they are different and so they should be.
I think that because the LMP1 cars are passing slower machinery left, right and centre it gives a greater impression of speed, but for a Motorsport enthusiast I find both good to watch for the reasons individual to each category.
Empty grandstands, you might have seen the BRDC one and perhaps the one the paddock club use, as both of those were not especially full, or pretty much empty in the case of the Paddock Club one, but I don’t think either of those count towards the 140,000 capacity?
I agree entirely. I was simply pointing this out because a bunch of people seemed to be under the impression that WEC was faster than F1
I believe Joe the idea of no pitlane speed limits is rather misconstrued. This is coming from a mechanic who has worked in the lower formula for the last 7 years. Accidents still happen when there is a speed limit, an example of this is Indycars this season where several mechanics have been injured. Furthermore in an F3 test 2 months ago I was attending I witnessed a mechanic breaking his leg due to a driver not understanding the grip change onto the concrete pit apron.
Like any other mechanic I do get an adrenaline buzz coming to a pitstop but I believe there is not enough protection for us in this environment. And I know it won’t be popular but I believe mechanics standing behind a line like we do at Le Mans should be implemented. Then possibly the idea of no pit lane speed limits could be investigated.
ps. I feel the same about refuelling as this is adding unnecessary danger to the people earning their living wobbling spanners. And I believe it would not add anymore excitement to the sport.
Pitlane speed limits limit what strategy can do. If you want racing without danger, then fine. It will be less interesting. I happen to think that a little amount of danger is acceptable. I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
No speed limit in the pit lane may well be more exciting and interesting, but the legalities of risk management would not see this happen whether you Joe, approve of it or not.
Wasn’t the speed limit introduced after Imola 1994, following some mechanics getting injured by an errant wheel?
Let’s assume that F1 brought in belated rules which limited radio communication between drivers and pit crew. It is not a ridiculous hypothesis; racing between drivers and teams would still happen on the basis of less external input. It would be about a driver judging the car’s behaviour and pit helpers hanging out an info board.
So let’s do it. The only communication channel between driver and outside world should be the safety people, with an exemption for a team to tell the driver to pull over and stop.
Once you eliminate car to pit radio communications, the pit board is fascinating. The pit board can lie or tell a truth.
So Joe, how would we permit faster pit lanes with F1 getting back to the old sport?
—
Joe: “I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.”
I think you are wrong and right. Historic motor sport is a bigger segment than anything else, and we accept that racers may die in historics.
There is no pit to vehicle communication permitted in MotoGP and it places the onus on the rider. This in turn creates heroes out of them. Maybe F1 can learn from that..
I’m sorry but this sort comment isnt really helpfull
I cannot abide the “health & safety” attitude that no danger can be allowed. We’re grown-ups, we know what we are doing.
Everyone deserves to go home safely after work, those who work in pit lane are not in control of the risks. If correctly implemented the UK approach to Health Safety is in principle very good. Understand the risks, control the risks as much as practical. Do the job. We work on oil rigs, in nuclear power stations all sorts of locations where danger and risk of harm is present. The vast majority of the time folks go home safely. Motor racing should be no different, it is inherently dangerous but the risk needs to be managed, and can be managed approipriate residual risk is acceptable. Unfortunatly there are a signifcant number of people that seem not to understand this and think that all risk must be eliminated, this is not true
Persoanlly I think that as safety standards have improved, driving respect has gone down.Senna & Schumacher in particular adopted an attitude of avoid me or crash, weaving at the start or whatever. My personal opinion is that this behaviour is linked to the perception of improved safety. Would Senna have driven prost off the road in Japan if they were in aluminium tubbed cars with fuel tanks likley to rupture at any point……..??
Would your driving be the same if your airbag was replaced with a spike on the steering wheel ?
Sorry rant off, back to enjoying the blog.
🙂
Yes the LMPs are slower but a more apples to apples comparison might be:
2011 British GP pole Webber V8 1:30.399 vs 2015 Hamilton hybrid 1:32.248
2011 LMP1 pole Peugeot V8 1:43.924 vs 2015 Porsche hybrid 1:39.721
So the LMP1 are going faster and using less fuel and F1 cars are using less fuel but going slower…. Don’t really understand the point of making everyone build the same 1.6L V6 turbo. Why not just give them 100kg of fuel, and let them build whatever engine they think is best?
I agree its a limit but I don’t think it would add to the show, which I think currently is fine. At Silverstone for example you probably would have seen even a 3-stop race with no speed limits as there would have been very little time loss at all due to pit stops if any at all. This is because the pit lane runs inside club and abbey corners. Fans I believe want to see action on track not in the pit lane. Again without pointing fingers when you are in garages at the end of the pitlane fans don’t even see it because of the slope.
As to the danger aspect, the sport is again fine as it is but the circuits should be changed such that there is a penalty for errors. Such as making the width of the curbs smaller, and having 20 yards of grass next to the track surface followed by run-off so that a car cannot simply have all four wheels over the white line but still on a curb/astroturf (Like copse corner)
I choose to be a mechanic even though it is dangerous and I get enjoyment out of the danger aspect as I said previously. I just don’t think changing pit lane speed limit adds to the show enough to be worth adding the extra amount of danger to us in the pit lane.
I tend to agree with Joe about PL speed limits, I think it should be down to personnel to keep out of the way, as the current limits are too slow and don’t enhance the image of the sport. As to the cars, comparing WEC and F1 has never worked, in the past the 917 Porsche was probably quicker than most F1 cars of that time, and cornering speeds of current WEC 4wd cars are very high, despite the weight and size of the cars. In absolute terms, they do look quicker, however that really doesn’t matter, what matters is the actual racing.
At Silverstone, I did notice on the tv, that there were empty spaces in the crowds, not anywhere near as bad as in early races this year, but the thing is Sold Out doesn’t mean no spare spaces. I have a friend who has a brother who run his own ticketing company selling tickets for concerts, racing, all sports etc etc. Now, he has to buy tickets way in advance of events, and hope to sell them before the event. If they don’t sell by the day, that is an empty seat,although it has been paid for, so in one way one can say correctly Sold Out, but in truth it is only Paid Out with some ticket seller losing money on the deal. This is probably the case last weekend.
As to the race, well it was good until the first pit stops, although it was always pretty clear that Hammy would get by Massa. If Williams had let Bottas pass Massa, and if Bottas could have built a gap to Massa and Felipe could have frustrated Hammy by holding him back, then Team Willy just might have won the race. Once Hammy got past the Williams cars, I emptied and loaded the dishwasher, and made a sandwich and coffee, and got back just in time for the Rain. Ah! Now it might have got interesting again, but Hammy and Vettel were the only ones who made the right choices, and Hammy deserved it for just that one decision in my view. Looked at broadly, and despite finding Hammy’s Rapper World just as boring as Vettel’s Finger, I’d have to say that it does seem that LH has reached a point now, where it would be fair to say that he is at the sort of level that Schuey was at for several years, given that both had really good cars to use, but LH is starting to run races as Michael used to, this is great for the spectator who can appreciate such skill levels, but the dominance does cause problems with the multitude, this I understand. One hopes that Rosberg will man up, or that Ferrari can gear up their cars so Vettel can be a proper threat, as having any driver win all the time becomes a tad boring.
To be honest, and looking back on the highlights, I’d think it was clear that no one was going to beat LH last weekend, except himself.
Solid post – points well made and few would have issue to argue against.
Joe, if we are going to eliminate pit lane speeds then it should logically follow that safety cars, virtual safety cars and starting behind the safety car should also be eliminated as it limits what strategy can do.
Why stop there? Why not get rid of all safety related measures that hinder the spectacle? Gravel traps and banking can make a return in favour of tarmac run offs to make the racing more challenging (and thereby interesting) and we could also bring back more interesting tracks such as the Nordschleife.
A five day RAC rally with long night time stages and Group B Cars…. 😀
Ha Martin aka justabloke….now you’re cooking with gas mate! Although the current WRC cars are quite awesome to watch, fact is that like F1, the sameness of them is off putting. The Mini BMWs looked quite different and went well, it was a shame BMW didn’t give Prodrive the money to run them properly, as they could have been winners. What the WRC needs, as in F1, is get rid of same spec engines, have bigger dimensions so different shapes of car emerge, and keep the rule book to a minimum!
I had some ace times in the forests, also a couple of pretty good French GP’s including 1989, The European GP at Brands four of five Silverstones and Donnington. ….
Hi Joe. Do you get paid for promoting “engine sound in F1 is not important” policy? I am pretty surprised to read that you throw the sound issue into the fact that Silverstone had full grandstands. How convenient for you. Funny that you did not do an article about the results of the fans survey. The fans here voted and I am sure they would like to read about it. How about that UK is doing pretty well and maybe the English had to money to spend on F1. Or the very good marketing strategy. Give some credit to those that deserve it. I find it insulting for you to say sound is not important when 73% of those fans which completed the survey said it was important.
Do you think it would be fair for the promoter for the German GP to blame the cancellation of the GP on low demand because the fans dont like the sound of the engines?
Don’t be insulting. I don’t get paid to do any of this… You have a view, fine. Have it. That doesn’t give you the right to tell me what to think. If you don’t like that, don’t come here.
I do like your articles very much Joe, but I get the feeling that you on purpose ignore the fans’ opinion in that survey in respect of the engine sound. And at the same time you used the full grandstands of Silverstone to mention the engine sound which in my opinion had nothing to do with the engine sound but everything to do with Lewis, great marketing strategy and the good British economy.
Surveys show what? They tell you what the dedicated fans want? That depends on the phrasing of the questions more than anything. One needs to be very careful about surveys because, for example, an online survey will inevitably skew results because it is the younger folk who are online more and so the audience will appear to be younger than it really is. In reality surveys are really only a method of fan engagement because we already know what the typical F1 fans want. There have been regular fan surveys and much depends on particularly fashionable ideas. What the sport should be doing is asking people who like cars but are not going to races or watching on TV what they would like to see.
Hey Joe that wouldn’t work as you would be furious at the number of people who would show up or switch on the tv, if we had carbonfibre, reworked, Mac M23s and Ferrari 312Ts racing again….not to mention Ligier-Matras!!
Most of us, including you, grew up watching aces in cars that sounded great, were colourful ( not like FI & Mac now ), had big race numbers on them so one could clearly make out the driver of the car, and all looked visually different……and they took off the grid and went flat chat for 200 miles, unless they had a puncture or a fuel metering unit used too much gas and resulted in a late splash & dash. There were far more cars, teams and chances for young up and coming pilotes.
It was high octane ENTERTAINMENT and SPORT…..2 factors that really are missing not only in F1 these days, but across the spectrum of Motorsports in general. If you don’t agree with that comment, just look how dreadful F3 is now and how rubbish the WTCC is when compared with times past and the Batmobile BMWs, crazy Volvo 242Ts and Rover SD1s etc etc. I can’t even be bothered to turn the WTCC on these days and that is the problem, it isn’t the spectators and fans who have got it wrong, it is the participants in motorsports, the organisers and the FIA….when they get it right, we’ll all come back….simples!
It was Damon Hill (I think) who said that because the survey was pretty long and needed patience to complete, it would be the proper F1 fans that actually took part in it. He also said that in his view, the new fans and occasional viewers would not have spent all that time on that survey. But he also said, just like you, that many other fans, the older generations which do not go online much, would not have been part of that survey.
And while I agree with everything above, I also think that those older fans would also have preferred the screaming engines which cars had in the past decades. So in the end, if the older fans would have been able to take part in the survey, the percentage of those which think engine sound is important, would be even higher.
The proper term is “sample bias”. Another group not included are those who are not yet fans. Obvious, yes, but hugely significant considering they could be the ones taking over when the current fans move along.
Joe alluded to that in a previous post; women are hugely underrepresented in the fan base, and F1 could do more to attract them (both for moral reasons and, well, to make more money!). Those that were previously repulsed by the excessive sound may not have realized anything has changed, and therefore wouldn’t be inclined to participate in surveys.
Lastly, the problem with surveys is exemplified in asking people if they want more passing; who would say no? Then we end up with DRS that makes passing too easy, makes passing boring, and has turned potentially good battles into a one-lap follow the leader until the DRS zone.
Perhaps varying the limit according to the track might be a sensible compromise as there are several tracks where the pitlane is much wider and therefore the risk is (presumably) reduced. However I would suggest at least two circumstances it would be necessary – firstly in wet conditions (where we regularly see cars fail to stop on the line due to the lesser grip on the concrete apron) and secondly during a safety car period when almost everyone dives into the pit and the shear number of cars makes it rather chaotic.
Loving the comments on here, the F1 cars are 7 seconds a lap faster than LMP1 says Joe, “no there not” chorus a group of experts apparently unable to read! The British GP was a sell out says Joe, “no it wasn’t” comes the reply from yet more experts who were not there and have no idea what Silverstone’s maximum capacity is…..
Read your first impressions from Baku with interest. As ever, well considered. We should give these people a chance. They live in a dangerous part of the world and their religious moderation ant anti-Iranian stance should be applauded and encouraged. They are not democratic and “human rights” aren’t what we would like them to be. However, democracy can and has led to some very dark places. It is a different world and we cannot sensibly overlay our standards on others who face such a different reality.