If there is not a Grand Prix at Monza in the future, I doubt the Italians will have any Grand Prix. Unthinkable? Well, we used to say that it was unthinkable that there would be no French GP.
At the end of the day I doubt that Ferrari would let the World Championship go without Monza. They probably have a secret veto on that too… and if they don’t, they should get one at the next round of commercial negotiations. CVC Capital Partners may not get it, but F1 with modern white elephant circuits but without the classic tracks would be like the Seven Dwarves without Snow White, like John, Paul, George and Dermot.
Nothing is unthinkable in F1. Well, it’s pretty unthinkable that there could be a race at Imola. There’s no money there. It’s pretty unthinkable at Mugello because Ferrari owns the track and it isn’t about to pay what F1 wants and would anyone hire the track and try to make an event work? It’s doubtful. Would anyone hire Monza? It’s doubtful. There’s no money in it… There’s always talk of street races in Rome, but that is like the London GP and the Loch Ness Monster. Lots of talk but dry few sightings.
In any case, Formula E is killing Formula 1 at getting into cities. And it will get better for them because they are cheap (everything is alongside F1) and there are no noise issues. F1 should have done deals in New Jersey and Long Beach, but it didn’t.
joeblogsf1 
And the comment over Formula E says it all doesn’t it? F1 has grown into a cash machine monster, consuming all in its path, and spitting out the good whilst sucking the wallets of the not so good and the egotistical…..like all sport these days, until the money grubbers move on, it will stay as a swamp….i live in hope that it comes back to the fans one day. As the good book says, and my Dad used to say, ” money is not the root of all evil, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil”…different aspect and not the one people immediately quote.
Monza is a classic track. Bernie can suckling blood from a stone. All he cares about is money. His ethos is to appeal to the Leather jacket wearing, 70 plus old men age bracket, who can afford to buy a dozen Rolex watches & drive around in high performance cars wearing their super glued toupees . While using a climbing frame or a Cherry Picker to kiss their 6ft high 26 year old wives.
Meanwhile the younger generations are being forgotten. Classic tracks will disappear & F1 will end up in some Murdoch Sky Format, which will be the end of F1. Then it will be too late & the big Car manufacturers will start their own Racing formula. Which probably won’t have the same pedigree as F1.
‘His ethos is to appeal to the Leather jacket wearing, 70 plus old men age bracket,’ …. Stop talking about Flav ! 🙂
Haven’t I seen you at Speakers Corner on a Sunday morning?
Speakers Corner used to be legally exempt from the laws and conventions of libel, ie, you could say anything you wanted about anybody, with impunity! Alas, this is no longer the case [as from some years ago]. Now it is simply a public access space with no special privileges, where all speakers have to observe the same ethics and rules as the rest of us.
Just like Joe’s space here.
You are right, to some extent, I think slander is the correct term. Also, and I haven’t checked today, one is allowed to say anything one likes but you risk being arrested by the police if you say anything that might be deemed “illegal”. I don’t think rules and ethics could be applied.
Hi, for me it’s sad that the special status of that spot is now lost. People could go there to express whatever they wished without fear of the law of libel and defamation. Now it is like any corner of any park.
I wish we could have Imola, the old Hockenheim and Estoril back. Magny Cours was pretty tidy too, back in the day. There’s so much great footage online of races at the old, classic tracks.
I saw some superpole laps from wsbk around old Hockenheim yesterday. It looked so exciting and fast. Unlike the stadium boredom it is now. I almost forgot about it. What they did with Hockenheim is basically what they did with F1. Eff it up.
The Old Hockenheim was very spooky….and an engine breaker as well….not the most exciting race track but very atmospheric! Like the Old Nurburgring, which was, and remains when used, probably the scariest race track ever…although the original Spa Francorchamps, Reims, Chatre and the old LeMans and Monza pre chicanes, were also very very spooky compared to the modern circuits, which barely test a driver at all.
Hi Joe,
What in all honesty is the solution? CVC leaving, whilst good, is just passing the baton to someone else.
I doubt any person is going to invest that amount of money for the greater good of the sport. Do we just accept that this sport which should be in the care of custodians has the primary purpose of profit maximisation for an investment fund?
That is the primary existence of the sport at present. Viewing numbers are down and capital gains and returns are up – go figure. Whose interests are best being served, and how do they align to the growth and continuity of this great sport? They don’t.
Heres a nice little excerpt from newspaper article back in 2000. This fundamentally is the problem behind the diabolical state of the sport.
“The general assembly of the FIA, formula one’s governing body, voted overwhelmingly in Paris on June 28 to extend Ecclestone’s hold on the sport’s commercial rights until December 31 2111, in exchange for a payment of £211.76m – which represents about a year’s revenue to Ecclestone’s Formula One Management.
Ecclestone will pay the FIA £35.3m immediately, and the balance over the remainder of the term at £1.76m per year.”
Cheers,
Hamish
It depends to whom the baton is passed does it not?
I wish that was the case but I do disagree. No one is going to shell out billions for the greater good of the sport.
One could take the long term approach, get the house in order sacrificing short term profits for the sake of a long term improved valuation (healthier teams, back to racing in core markets), but I just can’t see that happening in light of how much money is involved. Cash is king, and F1 generates cash – it is an attractive investment opportunity. CVC will be looking to offload to the highest bidder, not the group who has the sports best interests at heart.
The damage has been done. Regardless of who owns it their interests will not be aligned with the best interests of the sport. For me, in my opinion, that is the issue.
To quote Ken Tyrrells reaction “You wait, Bernie’ll move the rights on to a bunch of bloody asset strippers”.
How right he was. It should not have been sold in the first place.
I suppose the possible benefit of the oft suggested ‘Red Bull Formula One World Championship’ would be that RB would be more likely to stage events in places that get the most exposure and the biggest crowds, rather than questionable pariah nation states with cash to burn…
A decade ago here in the States the Chicago NHL team was a mess. The owner died and his son took over. He reversed his father’s ban on televising games, hired marketing people who loved the game, brought back superstars from the past who were estranged from the team as public ambassadors and hired competent people to run the team. It’s been a resounding success.
Obviously you have to hope someone who wants to nurture instead of slash and burn buys out CVC. But there is the possibility. For all the doom and gloom, some 425 million people still watch F1. Two millienia ago hundreds of thousands watch the equivalent, chariot races, in the Circus Maximus of Rome. I refuse to believe that all the kids nowadays are suddenly going to give up watching auto races. Watching men and teams go fast is ingrained in our DNA.
I’m all for a new series.
I cannot think of a better statement of intent for the future of the sport other than the teams acting as one, and giving a big middle finger to those that have a vice like grip on the nuts of the sport, walking away from any Concorde 2020 negotiations. That, for the first time in a while would excite fans, with many former F1 followers giving it a chance out of principle.
There is such an irony to the state that Bernie has got this sport into. Lets see how he came to power back in the 70s – teams used to negotiate individually with race organisers, and Bernie knew that the teams were in a stronger position as a collective group, which he negotiated on behalf of. Without the teams there would be no race, and these were the very people getting ripped off.
Sound familiar? Someone needs to pull a Bernie to get rid of him and his buddies.
Maybe if/when Renault win some Grands Prix the French will try to get their GP back?
No chance. Government won’t spend the amount of money to subside the track to get the race. I think WEC is gaining advantage now with Le Mans 24hr. That I guess,has more coverage than F1 race.
Myself has seen FR3.5 last couple of seasons on Eurosport but now that has gone too. Let’s hope that Formula E gains popularity and get kids interested in the sport.
Nah! the EU will say it’s against their rules to help a struggling national icon, no wait! That only applies here in the UK and not in France!
Though to be fair Nurburgring have been told to give the money back!
I liked the fact that the UK govenment stopped funding the GP. Is it publilc responsiblity to “give” money to CVC to host a race? In my view – no. Though it gives PR so does other sports (i.e. Premier League which). I also like the development in Germany where the tracks cannot afford it anymore and it’s so expensive that people turn to other sports (football again).
I’ve followed Joe’s comments for a few year and he’s always discussing the root of this problem. So Germany and possibly Italy’s beloved Monza GP could be the next casualty – maybe for the good of the sport. CVC will learn the hard way that lower audiences, pay-tv and so on will hurt their wallet. That is the only way you’ll have change.
It never funded the race.
You see the problem is that it is set up so that FOM (and CVC) get paid however many watch or don’t watch. Meanwhile the sponsors disappear and the teams suffer. Ultimately it must collapse unless the structure changes.
Dermot, whoever he is, was probably a better drummer than Ringo…
Was it the Beatles or the US Founding Fathers reference?
Sorry, I’m a foreigner.
If I start sounding off again in these blogs on how crappy and greedy the F1 business plan is for the race tracks and consequently, for Formula 1 in general… Citing France, on and off Germany, Belgium doing the Texas Two Step, and speaking of Texas, Austin now needing seven million in the form of additional support now that the government reduced their support of the event, Silverstone being one of Bernie’s favorite punching bags, and Monza being threatened, people here will liken me to Krushgev beating his shoe on the lecture at the UN. I’ll refrain for the momement of making an absurdly funny joke about Bernie’s pie-in-the-sky vision of having three races in the US did’ work and how virtually every manufacture and sponsorin F1 is either sheathing over the failure of them to materialize, or still under the combination of ether and hypnosis as Bernie has a pocket watch rolling like a pendulum inches from their eyes saying “Azerbaijan is what you want, yes, Azerbaijan is what you want. Just wait there’s a new dictator in some economic disaster ridden country Africa who’s pilfered their treasury and wants a Grand Prix. We’ll flush that old Monza down the crapper, we will.” And the subject is pulling billions of Euros, Dollars, and Pounds out of his wallet handing then to Bernie in a complete trance saying “Send Monza down the crapper. Send Monza down the crapper down the crapper.. down the crapper…”. After all, who needs Monza, France, New Jersey/New York, Califoria, Germany, Belgium, or Monza. They don’t represent sales at all for the likes of Mercedes, Ferrari, Honda, McLaren, Renault/Nissan do they? Martini, Red Bull, Johnny Walker, Tag, various stock marketing firms, and the like have no interest in these places, do they? “that guy in Key West getting sarcastic again” some readers are saying at this point, no doubt. But seriously folks, of all the combined businesses involved in Formula 1, why would they care about all of these places, when they could have Azberbaijan?
No, I’m not going to say that this morning…
Beware when buying anything from Bernie.
The ownership changing will not help anything. It is the structure and basic principles of the agreement that must be changed. I have no doubt whatsoever that Bernie will still be running it after it is sold and may still do so from his grave.
The world money and wealth holding patterns have changed since the 100 year agreement (were even changing at that time) and can no longer support what used to be a mainly European series plus friendly colonies. Thus F1 is in principle, dead, as we knew it Jim. Soon no European races will be in the list. Silverstone is tottering yet again even now as it seeks a new loan to pay Bernie with.
It is the financial structure of the agreement that forces this situation upon the sport. If it were to become a normal one then we could have all our European races back, they could actually make money provide jobs and support the lesser formulae like it used to be, new talented stars would be found circuits would be But I cannot see any way it can happen, there are so many restrictions, secret agreements, that force any sale of CVC’s holding into predetermined hands.
Talking of secret deals I see that Mr Gribkowski is being released from prison having served his time.
I remember when there were two Italian GPs every year, one of which was in San Marino, no other European country got two every year. Though there was the fudge in other countries of calling on the European GP which allowed two in Germany sometimes and once here. No to cut Monza is sacrilege, similarly Silverstone. The tiffosi would rebel, the Italian government would fall (again) Effigies of Bernie would be hung upside down from lampposts
Bernie is in a difficult position. I do believe that he does not want to drop Monza, Silverstone and Monaco.
The moment he speaks out that belief, he will lose his negotiation position with these circuits. Probably they will make him pay for hosting a F1 race.
With Bernie, things often are not like they seem in first instance. The yearly Monza discussion is no exception. If he does that different it will cost him 20 million or so per year in fees. If i can make 20 million by feeding the press crap, I will do so as well.
Pariah state racing (baku, sochi, bahrain) is countered with some great new circuits (Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Mexico) though….
Formula 1 doesn’t necessarily have to fear Formula E (for now). What it needs to fear is a much lower tech V8 and/or 10 open wheel formula with no gizmos gadgets and electronics. Just raw power, limited aero and driver skill.
While you’re laughing, ask yourself if you would watch “throwback” F1 type cars screaming around tracks F1 has abandoned like Imola, Watkins Glen, Brands Hatch, either or both German tracks, Magny Cours, Laguna Seca et al.
Without massive changes I truly believe F1 would be eaten up by a combination of FE and F New. As dedicated a fan as I am, I’m growing weary and probably won’t be buying any tickets or certainly FOM’s worthless overpriced app anytime soon.
“F New”. I would call the a lower tech series – “F Off”………….
totally agree with you, even formula e has better driver depth than f1 with its pay drivers and middle aged men, would love to see this kind of lineup in a European series on all the great tracks, or a euro indycar series even, could it happen or would it be blocked by the fia somehow?
I think that claiming driver depth in Formula E is a bit of an odd argument. FE is filled with F1 rejects. That may be harsh, but that’s the reality.
i don’t totally disagree, but are they rejected because of lack of talent or lack of sponsorship and funding? probably a bit of both, for sure the top 4-5 drivers in the world are in f1, but the rest of them? lucky with sponsors or driving for a pension in my opinion, for me FE has a more interesting lineup and that’s one of it’s strengths.
what other major sport has an array of middle aged men as it’s so called elite? if young guns aren’t continuously arriving and blowing the oldies away into retirement something’s wrong, 40 year olds in top teams soon I guess, exciting!
I’m not sure I agree with you when you say 40 year olds “shouldn’t be in F1”. They shouldn’t if they cannot keep up. But with the current state F1 is in, It seems they still can, pure on talent and merit, not just reputation.
Perhaps making F1 harder will naturally push out older drivers, as cycling and football do. Then again, those 2 sports have seen the retirement age go up, I assume because of better general fitness and a perception change in our worldview.
These days, most 60-year olds do not look like 60-yeard olds used to look in for instance, the seventies.
I think I quite like the fact you’re not an immediate write-off at 32 anymore as a sportsperson. Must be because of my own age. 😉
If the talent ànd fitness is still there, why not?
I do admit I prefer F1 to be also (amongst numerous other things) about very, very high levels of fitness. That would push out non-fit people, not focussing just on age.
I don’t say 40 year olds shouldn’t be in f1, I think people should be there on merit, but experience shows that sports people lose performance as they age
its getting boring watching aging drivers and average pay drivers race in F1, there’s only 20 seats and how many are really the top 20 drivers? 8 of them maybe? the other 12 would be stuck midfield in FE anyway
Back in 1970, Jack Brabham won his final GP at 44, while Emerson Fittipaldi won his first GP at 23….there were 30 car grids sometimes, and usually 26, and a variety of drivers from different background, including the odd paydriver, but most were there because they had been F3 and F2 champions, or had wins in those series, or were USAC champions…..now if you have a fat wallet you are in….not as good i think! And as for ageing drivers, Fangio’s finest GP win at the Nurburgring in 1957 was when he was 46, and he beat the younger Ferrari drivers into the dirt that day….thing was his car wasn’t as superior as a modern Merc is to the rest of the field, it was a Maserati that anyone could buy….the driver made the difference then but not now.
I remember when I first started following F1 in 1984 there used to be races in Usa , Portugal , Netherlands , France , South Africa …. all these races have now disappeared along with great drivers like Senna, Prost, Mansell, Lauda , Piquet and have been replaced with a sad lot of drivers and Abu dhabi, china, Malaysia , Bahrain, and Singapore the latter being the most palatable of the lot …. really tragic
I’m sorry Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Mexico are emphatically not “great new circuits).
I take it you haven’t walked from the second Lesmo at Monza down to the Variante Ascari? Much narrower and darker than it is portrayed on TV.
The only circuits that make the F1 season interesting are Monaco, Montreal, Spa, Suzuka, Interlagos.& Monza. Coincidentally, these are the ones where I watch every session…
@ Richard Stephenson
sorry …. when I said the latter i meant Singapore not the rest
I quiet like watching Formula E. Some of it is a bit lame ( no real speed and the change over is not cool ) but atleast when you watch the race there is a reasonable amount of over taking and sometimes 3,4,5 cars closely following which gives the expectation of something unexpected happening.
If Monza goes then that might be it for me as far as F1 is concerned.
Formula E is nothing like Formula 1. The last FE race was exciting
No, F1 cars are fast
Hannah
Formula E is nothing like Formula 1. The last FE race was exciting
Reply Joe Saward
No, F1 cars are fast
I’d say both can be, and is true.
I don’t disagree. Racing does not have to be fast, but it is better when it is.
Are F1 cars really much faster than they were 20 years ago? I’m not sure iif there’s much potential of increasing the speed safely for them at present.
F E on the other hand has huge potential for speed gains as compared to where they sit now and longer battery life too. Will that translate to a successful series? hell if I know, but it will be interesting to see what happens.
FE are bog slow. They may improve but they are bog slow. F1 is always needing to be slowed down. FE needs to be speeded up.
Look at how speeds have ramped up in the TT Zero race: 96.8 mph winning average in the first event in 2010, 119.3 last year.
I will watch with great enthusiasm
You are right, of course. But man, I seriously enjoyed that fixed camera shot in FE’s Buenos Aires race. It was awesome to see the turning of the cars going into the corner. Seemed fast too. I’ve grown bored of a camera hidden in the curbs, and this shot had a particular dynamic to it,
Their camera work is way better than F1
Hmm. Exciting because a Brit held on for the win, and Buemi demonstrated, again, that he’s a pretty damn fine driver. Otherwise …..
off-track. Ferrari have released a video of firing up the car – seven chaps feverishly staring into their laptops to fire it up. – bloody exciting! doh
I like Starter Buttons myself….and let the driver push it himself!!
Everyone should learn to drive in a car with a mechanical starter switch (pull to power the starter motor), no synchromesh on first (any?) gear and swing axle rear suspension… Just so that they can drive something that is not a Honda Civic.
More seriously, I am impressed by how young racing drivers respond when in the seat of an old racing car at events like Goodwood. Young drivers want to have a go, otherwise they would decline the invitation. Young F1 drivers deserve challenging modern cars and circuits.
The inherent problems facing most race promoters stem from the structuring of the F1 business model. Currently, in most cases, Bernie collects 100% of all race revenues. These flow to him, proportionately, directly and indirectly from two streams: The “Direct” Stream” equal 75% and are collected by Bernie straight from diverse sources.
These sources include: Signage revenues; Race Sponsorship Revenues; TV and Radio Revenues as well as Paddock Revenues. . The “Indirect Stream” equal 25% and are collected by Race Promoters on behalf of Bernie via attendance revenues. Once these revenues are collected they are forwarded to Bernie to defray his Race Sanctioning Fees.
On those occasions when the attendance revenues are inadequate to satisfy the sanctioning fees then race promoters are compelled to use funds provided by governments to promote economic growth. In instances when government funds are exhausted, but promoters are still unable to satisfy their formal obligations as well as operating expenses, then “Houston We Have a Problem.” Venues such as Monza, Montreal, Spa, Germany and Austin will continue to struggle unless there are changes to the F1’s business model.
We are all aware of the fact that Bernie is not a sentimental person. His fees must be paid. He’ll always find someone to pay them. Calling all Sheiks in the Middle East; & of some of Azerbaijan’s neighbours: Turkmenistan; Uzbekistan; Armenia; Turkey; Ukraine; Afghanistan Bulgaria, Iran etc. F1 needs you
It will be very interesting to see what difference to Bernie/CVC/F1 occurs because of the continued fall of the barrel price of crude oil.
Hi Damien
The continuing decline of the price of crude has not adversely affected Putin’s behaviour. So the lights will shine at Sochi. Regardless of the price of Crude Bernie will always find other loveable dictators somewhere to guarantee his fees.
Further, one can envision individuals, if they were still in office, such as Goodluck Jonathan or Susilo Bam Bamg (From where to those guys get these lovely names?) to eagerly step forward to secure a race for their countries and pay Bernie’s fees.
BTW: Press reports tell us that Monza does have the funds to pay this year’s fees. However, the hold-up stems from Bernie wanting guarantees that his fees will be paid in the out-years. Did you noticed how deftly he applied pressure to the Consortium in Italy? He told them that they can take as long as they want to resolve the matter as long as it’s done by the end of this month.
I would suggest that since the Tifosi are such special Ferrari/F1 fans then Ferrari should pay the fees re Monza and then send Bernie an invoice for reimbursement or instruct Bernie to increase the percentage of their special annual Payouts. We should all remember that in F1 whatever Ferrari wants, Ferrari gets. What do you think?
I think that there are now enough good European Historic tracks as well as loads of US tracks, so that an alternative WCD/WCC could be launched using the WEC for the first 2-3 years.
Back in 1952-53 F2 was used for the WCD so it has happened before, and the specific races for an Alternative Championship could be say 3 hrs and Single Driver. There would be room for such as Manor ( who are in WEC this year ) to build or race their own cars, and there are Works teams already, also it is much cheaper than F1 and not a lot slower, in fact i have heard it said that some cornering speeds are faster.
Running at tracks people want to go to, and for cheaper entrance charges would draw crowds, and the circuits could poke the middle finger at Bernie…..tv would be hit, crowds would be further hit, sponsors would not be impressed and Bernie/CVC would start to lose loads of money…..Manufacturers would be beating him up, and we just might find F1 swinging back to the fans at long last….all it needs is circuit owner guts and some enterprise…..Audi, Porsche & Toyota would love it!!
The Parabolica; Ascari Chicane, the two Lesmos etc. F1 without Monza? Just wouldn’t be the same. It’s unthinkable but sadly, not impossible.
if I could see again a 1000km at Monza as in the glorious 70s and 80s, I would not care about F1 leaving my town. That would be true motorsport, not mere entertainment. Monza would deserve that.
> In any case, Formula E is killing Formula 1 at getting into cities.
> And it will get better for them because they are cheap (everything
> is alongside F1) and there are no noise issues.
Like!
No race at Monza – Never – if that’s the case then I think Mr Ecclestone should really start watching his back for mafia and I don’t see what all the fuss is about concerning Azerbaijan (TBC) – I still have a bet on that it will never happen. Then I can just earn some winnings while watching a proper race with some of the said “heritage”
You may be interested to know that at a lecture at Leicester University yesterday evening Paddy Lowe confirmed that at a meeting in London during the day halo protection had been agreed for introduction to formula 1 next season.
Who needs Monza when you have Azerbaijan!!
Can u imagine tennis dumping Wimbledon, Flushing Medows and Rolland-Garros for Sochi, Baku and Abu Dhabi ?
“Can u imagine tennis dumping Wimbledon, Flushing Medows and Rolland-Garros for Sochi, Baku and Abu Dhabi ?”
Yes. Money makes people think differently.