There have been rumours for some days about a possible new Formula 1 racing team being put together with money supposedly coming from China. A little investigation reveals that a British registered company called Bronze Fortune Ltd, which has been in business since 2003, was renamed on May 20th as China F1 Racing Team Ltd. That is all that there really is at the moment, as the only name involved in the company – French lawyer Michael Orts – is clearly only a nominee.
It seems that things have only become public because some recruiting agencies have become involved on behalf of the company and these have been approaching potential recruits at other teams. Clearly they have not been very subtle about it.
As previously explained, to start a new Formula 1 team the first requirement is to secure an entry in the FIA World Championship. These are not given away. The team may submit entry forms from March 1 two years before the date the entry relates to. In other words if one put in an entry form today, it would be for the 2019 season. The application would then be considered and the FIA would decide on an entry based on the new team being able to demonstrate that it is able to meet its financial and other obligations, that it is headed by a fit and proper person and that it would not bring F1 into disrepute. It would be unwise for a new team to start recruiting staff before securing an entry but the FIA has not announced any such application. In the past the FIA has indicated if there were any applications being considered.
Starting a new team is not really the best way forward because of the fact that new teams have limited access to prize money for the first three seasons in F1. This means that they must be self-supporting before being able to budget for prize money. It is better to buy an existing team, even if the money required up-front would be more.
joeblogsf1 
“that it is headed by a fit and proper person and that it would not bring F1 into disrepute”
So bribery charges for example?
Is anyone who been up on bribery charges applying to start a new team?
Job title should be irrelevant if its bringing the sport into disrepute, correct?
Without wishing to link the two stories, do you know if Ron and his Chinese investors have put things on hold or parted ways?
Ron does not own the company
I am sure you are correct in that. Do you think it’s likely that he is in some way connected to the potential team?
Force India seems like the obvious best buy, given its wholly UK manufacturing base and Mercedes engine contract. I would not imagine many of the team workers would be weeping grievously to have a new owner, who has not got a slew of legal and criminal actions hanging over him like a sword of Damocles. I wonder if the current owner has learnt anything from the Manor debacle, that to have 50% of what he would like to get for the team, is a lot better than 100% of nothing.
> to have 50% of what he would like to get for the team, is a lot better than 100% of nothing
I wonder, though. If your debts are bigger than the best offer on the table for all your assets, where’s the payoff for accepting a concrete offer if it means you still go bankrupt, but owing less when it happens?
Just thinking out loud…
Is this related to what’s going on at Sauber I wonder? Then again if Force India are for sale it would be logical to buy a UK based team.
The problem with arguing that it’s unlikely anyone’s starting from scratch because to do so is a bad idea (though utterly accurate so far as it goes) is that history is full of idiots who did it anyway. They’re still making idiots…!
Yeah. Some years ago it was suggested that we might have reached peak stupid. Turned out, stupidity was an infinitely renewable resource.
If you could generate electricity from stupidity, it would solve all the world’s energy needs.
“There are two things that are infinite: The universe, and human stupidity. And I’m not sure about the universe.”
Never underestimate the power of stupidity.
I get the feeling this is more about quantity (more teams on the grid) than quality. Of course, I am quite stupid.
Is it possible that the prize money rules will change soon, giving earlier access to new teams? I thought that had been suggested. Although I also recall you saying that it was tied up in the Concord agreement and, as such, was fixed until 2020 (?).
Is it possible that LM will be changing the rules regarding new teams having to wait for 3 years before being paid? I can understand a delay of 1 year, but 3 years is pretty extreme, the kind of nonsense that only the Little Man could get away with, but possibly not acceptable to an American company.
Didn’t Ross confirm that existing contracts running till 2020 mean new teams won’t get paid till then?
Could this be the reason force india are changing names?
With Liberty considering “franchise” model of business. Do we see them adopting concepts of “drafting” when starting new teams. A new team can – draft talents from other organization to build a new team?
@Steve – NFL drafting applies to players. Team staff in F1 are in the sport as a life long career. You can’t force anyone to work for another team, especially as we know some bosses have left their employees without pay for weeks on end, before pulling the plug on the company. How many teams have gone down the pan in the last few years?
Question: Surely an application received today would have to be for the 2020 season?
The start of the 2019 season is closer to a year and a half away so there isn’t the required 2 years notice. I presume there’s a documented cut off for the two years, which I’d have guessed would have been related either to full calendar years or at least full F1 seasons.
That confused me too, Gary, but I think what Joe was saying is that the window for applications opens on March 1st two years beforehand, i.e. they couldn’t ask for a 2019 entry before then. No word on when the window closes, but in the absence of further information I’d assume 28th Feb 2018, after which it would be for 2020.
That seems a logical answer and fits what the article said, will work on the assumption it’s the correct answer.
….then forget all about it for future reference and still find myself confused at the darker dealings of F1.
If an entry now is for 2019 or 2020, and that’s when the agreements with the teams are to be renegotiated, then it’s possible that the old rules about no access to prize money for three years will go away. It could be that the new team is either betting on this or has given some kind of assurance or suggestion that this would be the case in the future. Otherwise, how are Liberty going to convince more teams to get on board?
The new deals come in 2021
Perhaps just the one year without a prize is still more palatable than three!
And as you’ve said, the entry isn’t apparent yet, so they may not have one until then anyway.
According to ESPN Jean Todt has said that “…prospective teams have recently expressed an interest in joining the Formula One grid in the near future”. Obviously that doesn’t mean entry forms have been submitted, but it looks like the process to do so has started. Maybe also from a certain company called China F1 Racing Team Ltd?
Overheard in the paddock:
” pssst …. wanna work for a British registered company called Bronze Fortune Ltd, which has been in business since 2003, was renamed on May 20th as China F1 Racing Team Ltd. That is all that there really is at the moment, as the only name involved in the company – French lawyer Michael Orts – is clearly only a nominee…..?? “
#1Maybe I’m sniffing old socks but VJ is in a very precarious position and me be recalled/extradited to India in the near future (December)
#2 Bernie knows when there’s a bargain to be had and FI falls into that category
#3 BCE has more than enough loot
#4 BCE won’t pay the rumoured 250USD for FI- probably half as by the time legal processes have played out, along with VJ sticking to his price, it will all end up in a ‘fire sale”
#5 Bernie’s various companies are registered all over the joint (see Offshore) such Seychelles/Mauritius or what-have-you. Who’s to say that the Chinese company is simply a shell at this stage, at which sometime BCE will be appointed its sole owner/chief/CEO or whatever?
#6 – Throw in the name Brabham that will bring back some nostalgia to F1 (Liberty will love the idea) and it will no doubt warm the old man’s cockles on being reunited with a name he once owned
#7 – Every man has his price- while Gordon Murray is pursuing his own interests, who’s to say BCE won’t throw a few bar at the South African?
I’ll light up another joint shortly
You are sniffing old socks….to pick one point at random #7 Last time Bernie and Gordon worked together, Gordon felt Bernie stiffed him. I doubt he’d want to go back at this stage in the game
Thanks for the heads-up
Are we hearing a conflation of recruiting attempts by existing non F1 teams (eg Jaguar Formula E) with rumour mill stories of possible future F1 teams?
Or possibly a proposed team/s looking to recruit F1 skills to initially apply in other formulae so that their F1 entry has a solid engineering existence ready to turn to F1 when the time comes and not a bunch of ego driven strangers starting from no more base than their combined cranium capacities and little more than a year to build a capable F1 team from an empty factory?
I lean to the former myself.
No, some vague approaches have been made, but without an entry no-one will jojn a new team. It’s really very simple. I guess it was just someone getting a feel for the market before committing to go for an entry.
This is a strange one.
Is it possibly a cloak for new owners of an existing team? Transfer of assets?
I heard the manufacturer behind this was Geely who own LTI and Volvo i think?
At the end of May Geely acquired a 51% controlling stake in Group Lotus as part of their purchase of Proton.
Not another Lotus team!
I wouldn’t be against a new Lotus team if it was A) well funded and sustainable; B) a full owned part of Group Lotus. Geely have the sort of backing that makes such a project viable, especially if the F1 funding model finally changes
Loved you on missed apex last night Joe!
Could china make renewal of the Chinese GP conditional upon an entry being granted for China F1 Racing team?
No
The fact that starting a new F1 team is seen as a daft idea by many is surely one of the biggest condemnations of the current state of F1.
The most watched and richest racing series in the world, and the idea of starting a new team is met with LOLZ…
Thanks Bernie!
Good luck liberty trying to sort this one out…
The company name changed in May, but the website was registered in September last year….
https://www.whois.com/whois/chinaf1racing.com
I guess the question is why would China per say want to get into F1?
We already have Geely (May 2017) with 51% of Lotus, alongside Etika Automotive from Malaysia, holding the remaining 49%. Unfortunately, Tony Fernandes screwed up the name Lotus in the F1 circles, and then drop the Caterham team and the Renault side project down the sink hole. Of course, Geely owns London Black Cabs (2007) and Volvo Cars, plus there own range.Not sure if any of those names would make good F1 team names.
Geely, of course, could acquire Force India, if the price is right and move them and the Lotus Cars side to a new production Plant – locations. The spin-off from F1 would work great with the Lotus brand and also with Volvo. Just rename Force India as Team Geely
I forgot to add that China is super “hungry” for all things Tech, and we know that F1 teams do throw off a lot of techs, as each year new things are added or improved on the car.
The other big question is how far away or behind is Formula E to F1. With the big – major car companies how getting involved in this formula, it will only be a matter of time, until cheap – efficient electric hybrids cars are everywhere. Sure the viewing figures are light years behind, right now…..but for how long?
In basic – simple language China needs the tech that F1 has and formula E has to be market leaders.
Joe I’ve worked in the Indy Car Paddock since 1989. As I watched the Manor F-1 collapse I have to say that with the imminent arrival of Liberty Media as owner of F-1, that any one of a small group of American Race Team Owners in either/both of the Indy Car / NASCAR Paddocks didn’t scoop up the Manor assets & F-1 Entry.?? I believe that the arrival of Liberty should be very beneficial to an American-owned,American Corp,Global reach sponsored, UK domiciled F-1 Team. Liberty will distribute $$$ more equitably and make certain that staying solvent in the F-1 Paddock is feasible.
Now with the arrival of China Formula 1,again I ask why didn’t they move on the Manor assets,which were at a substantial discount to the cost of a ‘Start Up’.???
Why make the climb up Everest more arduous…???
Whatever happened to the old way of doing things…establish yourself in F3 and if you are up to it, progress to F1 over several years.
Very interesting. The Chinese Super League (Football/Soccer) has had a huge amount of investment in the last couple of years with seemingly bottomless pits of money being thrown at the sport. Players and Back Room Staff have been easily attracted by astronomical wages. I have a feeling if their does become a Chinese F1 Team then I would expect a similar approach.
Now we know! According to the EJiot, Mercedes are losing 2 major sponsors, Petronas and UPS, at the end of 2018, and this would leave the team too skint to continue racing, so…
The mystery Chinese company are going to buy Mercedes. Exactly why they are interviewing RB staff wasn’t explained. Neither was Jordon able to say that Mercedes wouldn’t be able to secure other sponsors.
You are assuming what Jordan said was true. It was obviously and very clearly denied by Mercedes
joe
Just watched the interview E.J gave. Is EJ off his head.
Thanks a lot for sharing this with all people you really know what you are talking approximately!
Bookmarked. Kindly also consult with my website =).
We will have a hyperlink trade arrangement among us