The decision by the Tribunal de Grande Instance in Paris has sent shock waves through the sport. Most importantly, and shockingly, it means that unless the decision is appealed and overturned none of those involved in the Singapore 2008 scandal has been punished in any way. Nelson Piquet, who deliberately crashed his car, was given immunity, the Renault F1 team was given a suspended ban (which amounts to a hill of beans) and it has been ruled that the sanctions placed on Flavio Briatore and Pat Symonds cannot be allowed.
My gut feeling is that the FIA cannot allow this situation to set a precedent an will either appeal, arguing that it was a safety issue (which it was) and that the civil courts have no right to overturn any decision take with regard to F1 safety, which is entirely the remit of the federation. The alternative is to convene some kind of tribunal and make another ruling. However Briatore and Symonds would not be required to attend this if they chose not to – as happened at the last hearing.
The third option is for the governing body to issue licences for team principals and top engineers – and these would not, of course, be available to Briatore or to Symonds. This is a cumbersome way of doing things, but the legal decision in Paris, unless overturned will mean something along these lines is necessary as cheats cannot be allowed to prosper if the sport is to have any credibility. The basic reality is that the FIA Statutes do not have any sanction against anyone in the sport, except licence holders, member clubs and the executive officers of those clubs.
The court concluded – oddly to my mind – that Mosley and Briatore have a history of conflict. This is certainly not the impression I have had over the years and I still think that the FIA’s decision not to punish Renault F1 for espionage in 2007 was one of the most outrageous pieces of decision-making I have seen. As Mosley himself said recently, Briatore was given the benefit of the doubt many times.
joeblogsf1 
I agree wholeheartedly, Joe.
Joe, just to say that I talked about hills of beans on the next thread before I read this piece. I’m not having a go.
It seems to me that this saga will have a very damaging outcome. Each side have its own points. The FIA is right when it is not able to accept that its right to ban people who has done dangerous actions is questioned but the other side seems to be right as well when it argues that they’re not licence holders. In my opinion there should be some kind of common database regarding licences and the distribution of the entry passes. The problem is that the Formula One passes are controlled by Bernie and afaik the FIA has no right to disallow him to issue passes for Briatore and Symonds. Simply disallowing them from entering any FIA sanctioned race would be almost have the same effect as banning them from the sport.
Perhaps you should write a book about this.. title: “The Grand Prix Saboteurs”?
Licensing may be cumbersome but cetinally defines rank and the overall responsability that comes with it!
I feel this sad outcome was inevitable given the schoolyard courtroom fiasco.
We all suspect (perhaps even know?) that Flav was involved but surely he has to be regarded as innocent until proven guilty.
The way he was tried was laughable and it proved nothing.
I am sure that Renault would not like to hear you going around saying that its investigation into the affair was “laughable”. Ths is a publc listed company you are talking about. amn sure they did everything absolutely by the book. The FIA World Council, led by MM, may have overstepped the mark (according to some French judges) but I have said before the appeal court may well rule differently.
Are there no getlemen left in sport anymore? Surely this was a fair cop and those guilty should just take it like men.
Gentlemen? LOL…
Hi Joe,
I thought pantomime season was coming to an end?
I think the licence idea you speak of is a good way to go. Whatever keeps cheaters out of the sport is what has to take place.
If it was anyone else their guilty conciense would make them do the right thing and stay away from the sport but obviously this is not one of those people.
Hopefully he will stick to football which has already been ruined by money hungry owners who have no respect for the sport. Given the fact that it costs almost as much to watch QPR as it does Chelsea I would say he is doing a great job and deffo on to a winner there.
If everyone in F1 said we don’t want you back after what you did then I don’t think he would come back anyway but last season after this issue went public there were a few people almost defending him (like Mark Webber in an interview on the BBC) and others in F1 who were probably not critical enough. All I know is if I were spending millions and putting heart and soul in to something I would be very p***ed off if someone cheated me as Renault did in Singapore. I guess what I am saying is I expected more of a collective cold shoulder to Flav than what seems to have been shown. I know people need to be careful of what they say due to legalities but if Flav plans a comeback it must be because someone gives him hope that he will be accepted back in the first place. Mmmmmm….Bernie?
I understand the court ruling that the FIA can’t punish those that are not license holders. I actually agree with the notion of requiring ALL PARTICIPANTS in FIA regulated activities to be licensed (as would those in the financial industry in most markets) and subject to a code of conduct – not just the major decision makers. OR the FIA could simply rule that those holding FIA licenses cannot collaborate in FIA regulated activities with those considered unfit to participate (then they could name Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore). This second point would prevent Drivers and Teams from working with FB in F1 or other FIA regulated acitivities.
Is it not possible for the FIA to prevent licenceholders to employ Briatore and Symonds. And because drivers have FIA (super)licences as well, this would also mean that they may not be managed by them.
This will be roughly the same verdict as the imposed ban, with the exception that they can visit GPs as they like.
Sasquatsch,
Sure, if someone will give them a pass…
Nail meets head Joe..
Quote: I still think that the FIA’s decision not to punish Renault F1 for espionage in 2007 was one of the most outrageous pieces of decision-making I have seen!!.
This has been the problem from day 1 with Mosley, he ruled by dictatorship and got personal when dealing with teams/folk who spoke out against him.
Mosley is to blame for the mess that Todt has inherited.
We have a great stage set for some on track battles, I hope continuing off track battles don’t spoil it.
Todt should distance himself from Mosley and put this to bed as quickly and smoothly as possible.
Flav and co will serve there punishment looking at F1, not in F1.
Mosley and Briatore have what you might call a “class conflict”, at they very least. They are entirely different animals, sleaze or no sleaze. Perhaps they were known for tummy rubbing and butt scratching in the old days, but I have trouble imagining Mosley ever submitting to such a thing and no trouble imagining nouveau riche Signore Briatore thinking himself looked down upon by Mr. Upperclass Brit Twit. The Court may have considered that being at play here, as I am sure it was.
Furthermore, Mosley’s statement that Briatore had been “given the benefit of the doubt many times” merely emphasizes how capricious Max’s rule was. Any ruling, any “ban” or slapdown he engineered is subject to review.
But that is all side dishes to the matter at hand, which is The Crash and what to do about it, if anything.
The main problem with condemning the crash was that 1) it worked, and 2) there was nothing illegal about it, FIA-wise. Viewed objectively as a tactical move (or as a “hail mary”) it was brilliant.
And using the “endangering the lives of others” objection as a way of condemning it is very dicey. How far do you go with that one? When a driver sandwiches two of wheels with two of his competitor’s — while both are skittering around a curve — is that not “endangerment”? Or do we just say “that’s racing!”? Or how about merely “taking a look inside” or “defending one’s position”? It is certainly indefensible to deliberately take someone else off the track (even though that rule does not extend to what wee Piquet did to himself alone, interestingly), but even in the case of “racing incidents” there is going to be a deal of crap left out on the track, and that is “endangerment”. So that means we have to punish any crash, and install slots at all the tracks?
The deeper offense of Briatore et al is that they did this in secret, to deceive, knowing that it was dirty pool. That goes right back to the very murky law of what is and is not “sportsmanlike”, and good luck. It would be better for the FIA to just outlaw deliberate crashes of any sort, so that in future it has the power to penalize accordingly, and let this one ride.
Or, putting it another way, if Mosley is truly behind us (i.e., not behind Todt) then all his behavior and its consequences have to get behind us as well. Going to court or coming up with some new punishment for Flatulo is merely going to extend the misery.
I guess my question is, what does Briatore hope to gain from all this? I know these men have MASSIVE egos, is it to save face?
I fail to see how he believes all this will help him in the long run. He’s dragging the sport through the mud and so I don’t see how he could ever work in F1 again. I mean, who would want to work with him?!
ncsfoo,
I thnk the answer is in the soccer/football world.
Afternoon Joe,
Love the blog….
Is it just me getting cold turkey from no F1 since november or is there just a lack of promotion going on ? ? ?
Ok i know it’s only the first week in 2010 but with only 3 weeks until the first test, there seems to be little news on anything! Driver’s,teams new looking teams i.e Silver arrows. . . By the way back in october i wrote on Button’s twitter page “can’t wait to see you in the silver arrow’s next year”, thinking it would still be a mclaren…
Anyway love the blog and if i could afford it i would willingly donate to the cause
Matt
But while there were issues of safety at the Singapore race and Flavio, quite rightly got the chop, the FIA under control of Mr Mosley took the opportunity to single out the head conspirator, who also happened to be a important member of a group of team owners who were threatening a breakaway series.
Nothing would have happened if the driver who was told to crash hadn’t been sacked the next year and gone bleating to the papers instead of storming out the secret meeting with Flav and Pat Symonds and going to see Charlie Whiting.
The decision is not that they have to restore Flavio but that the FIA has to get its act together which I think is what everybody wants.
Maybe you could argue that you need an FIA licence to access the pit-wall?
Joe, Ecclestone is quoted elsewhere as having said,
“Just because a bloody judge has said what he’s said…”
Any chance that Ecclestone could find himself being charged with being in contempt of court for describing a judge in that way?
In your last but one paragraph,
“…the FIA Statutes do not have any sanction against anyone in the sport, except licence holders…”
The license holder is surely the Renault team and the FIA chose not to censure them. Was a deal done between Renault, the main company this time, and the FIA? We probably will never know the answer to that but surely that is the suspicion.
Martin C,
I do not think Renault was to blame. Officially, yes, perhaps, but in reality they did not know about it. I would think that the FIA was unwilling to punish Renault in case they pulled out of F1 and happy to have them cooperate with the inquiry. FB seems to have overlooked the fact that Renault found him to blame.
@ J Hunt
I agree with you. I find it quite disgusting actually the way some in F1 have been so gushing over Flavio. Like when Alonso dedicated his podium to him (mind you, can we be surprised really when Alonso doesn’t have an iota of moral fibre and good sportsmanship and got a GP win out of it which still stands in the record books). It makes me view such people in a totally new light, but Bernie’s stance isn’t at all surprising either. All he cares about is money.
There is an interesting point somewhere here about different standards being applied to drivers and backstage players (even famous ones). Drivers never get punished in any significant way for driving cars that they must know or have reason to believe are illegal. They rarely get significant punishment for illegal manouveres. (Exceptions apply in all cases where this just happens to extend the championship fight to the last race).
An argument that they are ‘racers’ and must be given leeway must apply equally to most F1 professionals, who are equally passionate (not Flav, as it happens…) But at the end of the day, the drivers are box office and backroom boys are not.
Matt Whiting
You can afford £5 surely, for the best F1 blog in the English language.
Joe – is Piquet Jr driving HGVs next season?
I thought Flavio was great to have around. He added a little glamour to the sport and he still managed to run a successful operation (even if he wasn’t technically minded he certainly got the right people in the right positions and let them get on with it). The sliminess of the FIA (or just Max Mosely) reduces their credibility in their Crashgate investigation just enough for me to retain a 5% chance that Flavio is telling the truth, and Renault’s “investigation” (what could they investigate if only 3 people were involved in the crashing discussions and presumeably there isn’t much of a paper trail – like emails or recorded calls or CCTV video) was to get the FIA off their backs.
Anyway, I don’t mind Flavio not being around. Time to move on. I hope the fall out from this doesn’t go on too long.
This hearing would never have happened if not for the fact that FIA “justice” has, for years, been administered in a cynical, self-serving, and opaque manner. It’s a bitter irony that the bubble finally burst at the cost of what may have been the only sensible disciplinary action taken in recent memory.
Joe Saward, what is your view of Bernie Ecclestone’s latest comments, specifically the part in which he explicitly says that not only did he not want Briatore banned in the first place, but that he is “welcome” to return to the sport?
I find it strange that the majority of the blame for this mess is not being placed firmly at the feet of man responsible, Max Mosley.
Mosley knew of this scandal a Full Year prior to it being publicly revealed, yet (until Nelson’s sacking) declined to start an investigation.
Mosley decided to use his sham courts with “mr. X” anonymous witnesses and testimony from immunized witnesses. Further, Mosley and Briatore had been at sharp and very public odds just prior to the public revelation of this event. Mosley did not distance himself from the case, in sheer disregard of this conflict of interest Mosley continually interjected his will throughout.
The worst of Mosley’s offenses in this matter is that after the “trial”, one of the FIA delegates publicly revealed that the decision and punishment had been decided PRIOR to the actual hearing.
How is this French court loss not entirely of Mosley’s making?
Had Mosley decided to use something even resembling due process while prosecuting Briatore and Symonds, I think the French courts would have given the FIA every benefit of the doubt. Yet Mosley’s continued use the FIA courts as a fancy venue to deliver his dictates preordained this loss.
It was a display of sheer arrogance on Mosley’s part to think he could get away with it. In fact, I predicted this outcome some time ago.
It’s one thing to use the the FIA’s a sham courts against a PR sensitive company, it’s quite another to use such tactics against a man of means who’s been delivered a punishment so severe, he’s nothing to lose.
We all suspect (perhaps even know?) that Flav was involved but surely he has to be regarded as innocent until proven guilty.
He does? This is the FIA we’re talking about after all, their tactics are not exactly above the water and never have been. It saw fit to condemn 100,000 spectators at Indianapolis to a 6-car parade in order to win a stupid political argument.
Sure, Briatore’s a snake. So are most of the powerbrokers in this sport.
I agree Joe, cheaters should be punished!!
But why is there so much upset about this ruling now. I do not remember this kind of upset (media and fans) when Schumacher parked his car in Rascasse during the Monaco qualifying. He was only put to the back of the grid.
I don’t even want to go into his and his team’s other tricks, the worst ones for me being Austria and Indianapolis 2005 finishes. And the punishment from the FIA?????? Sorry to bring these examples in this particular discussion, but -like you- I’ve been around for some time and have no faith in the FIA in terms of unbiased and consistent ruling.
Cheaters in any shape or form should always be punished, so I am all for strict ruling and punishment if only the FIA would rule unbiased AND consistently. And the recent past has shown us otherwise.
Maybe Jean will change all that. Or is he??
Joe, at this point what happens if Briatore actually turns up for the Bahrain race? – I can’t imagine him getting a pit pass so would he have to buy a ticket? Can the race organizers bar him?
Try walking into an F1 race if you do not have a pass…
Three things.
– A transparent disciplinary Code of practice and sanctions-
– fully embedded in a Franchise Contract to Operate a Team in the F1 Series.
– A Team Compliance Officer. Employee Contract of Employment with a FR holder infers agreement with and adherence to F1 Code of Conduct.
An employee breaking the code is deemed to have done so, acting at all times – solely for and on behalf of the Franchise Holder.
-Or something like-
I do agree with the Joe in principle – there is a need to properly revisit and if necessry reset, clarify and codify the legal and disciplinary relationships within this sport.
For I now hope this sport has not forgotten the ageless art of Peer sanction.
Not defending Flavio but he is not the first or last “cheat” caught in motorsport. A ban for life for any and all motorsport circles (i.e he cannot even be an agent for drivers) seemed a little a personal vendetta from Mosley, I think THAT is what the court ruled on, not so much this incident specifically…
A 5 year ban or a huge fine or both might have been more appropriate… And it probably should have been done the *first* time Flavio was caught (what was it again, option 13 on the Benetton’s software?) – the FIA rulings are severely lacking in consistency, ask Ron Dennis !
I say let it be, at this point… Who’s gonna hire Flavio now anyway ? He’s done for, let him crow and grow old on his yatch ! On a side note, I’m amused that Nelsinho is getting a free pass from most… It still might have been his idea, that was not established conclusively, and his immunity is laughable…
Joe,
In America, we have the process of indictment, like what happened to Barry Bonds over the whole steroid scandal. Do European Governments have the same sort of thing? If so, wouldn’t the type of cheating that Briatore and Symonds involved in make them just the type of people who would be indicted?
I honestly don’t know very much about the topic, but It just seems like over here with MLB the U.S. Government stepped in and took care of the fact that players were gaining an unfair advantage by using steriods, bringing disrepute upon the sport as a whole. Sounds familiar, right?
I don’t see why a system of licences would make any difference. In order for it to work, you would have to have criteria whereby the FIA would decide whether or not to grant a licence. If you can’t invent a process for banning people that accords with natural justice, how can you devise a system for refusing licences that accords with natural justice? The two things are the same.
But the reassuring thing is that of course it isn’t impossible for the FIA’s WMSC to take a decision in accordance with natural justice. The fact that Max Mosley operated in such a way that the French court has condemned the FIA’s decision as illegal is all about Max Mosley, not the FIA. If the FIA behaves properly then no court will overturn its decisions.
If the FIA now appeals, it will be a clear sign that Mosley is still running the show from behind the scenes. Because no appeal is necessary – the quickest and easiest thing is for the WMSC to revisit the case as soon as possible, do it this time in an above-board fashion, in accordance with legal advice, and get the whole thing finished. The only case for an appeal is that if successful that would vindicate Mosley’s behaviour. The only person who would benefit would be Mosley. The FIA would be better off not appealing, just getting on with it.
I really believe this cannot be understood as FIA vs. Briatore conflict, can be?
And Court is of the same opinion thinking it should have been between FIA vs. Renault. And this one is concluded by suspended ban. Case closed. (Because FIA wanted Renault to stay, which – by selling its F1 team – didn’t).
Now FIA is fighting for rights to ban ANYBODY. It can implement apropriate procedures but not retrospectively.
According to the rules, FIA obviously wants the team to be responsible for all its members, because FIA doesn’t want to deal e.g. with particular mechanic, who made an error. But now FIA does want selective responsibility. Because it suits Max Mosley’s needs. And that what I find wrong. You can’t bend rules according to your current needs.
No metter how disgusting the plot actually was!
Sorry, I ment “That goes without saying, that the plot was indeed disgusting!”
Joe
This decision just shows that court decisions and justice are sometimes poles apart but it also shows that the FIA is not above the law and has perhaps become anachronistic in today’s corporate world of sport. Perhaps the only way out is for the sport to be administered by a body agreed to by its own competitors not dissimilar to NASCAR, that way making its decisions binding and not subject to appeal to the outside world’s legal system. I guess the complexities of European Law make such a scheme unwieldy but if NASCAR can successfully ban mechanics from a number of races in America where lawyers a three a nickel, then surely a system to which everyone participating in F1 from Team Principals to truck drivers agrees to abide by the Sporting Rules without recourse to the outside courts can be implemented.
Briatore lost his jobs and business in F1 and that is punishment in itself if the FIA can make it stick.
The dispute about the right of the FIA to ban non license holders is not a good thing to have but something good may come out of it. English football club owners have to fulfill a fit and proper person test. The same could be required of F1 team owners and driver managers.
Teams will have their license renewed only if their owners and directors are free of previous fraud and cheat convictions in F1. Drivers superlicenses are only renewed if their managers are free of fraud and cheat convictions in F1. If a manager fails the test a driver can dismiss him and make a new application. At the same time the same person should not be permitted to manage drivers and teams or own team equity.
The FIA can decide to implement such requirements on their own. The debacle has shown another weak side of the current constitution of F1. The FIA should have a fundamental veto for paddock and general access passes to races. It is wrong that they have to rely on the commercial rights holder to agree to an exclusion. The federation should hand out race bans to cheaters as a regular punishment. That way non license holders like Stepney and Coughlan could have been punished and the same was true to Briatore and Symmonds.
joesaward said:
“Try walking into an F1 race if you do not have a pass…”
Joe, you seem to agree that an FIA veto on passes would be a powerful tool. The question obviously is how to establish such a veto right with FOM/FOA approval. I could imagine that Bernie would have objections.
Briatore is not employed by a team he thus has no right to a pass.
So does this ruling mean that the fine dished out to Mclaren was not legal either, after all they were not licensed either. Could they appeal against the the fine they received and possibly others as well. The FIA need to move faster than usual I think.
Well given his professed passion for car racing from his statement the other day – I’m sure he’ll just buy a 3 day ticket and watch on the spectator banks like any other enthusiast won’t he?
I see Autosport is now reporting comments made by Mosley that this affair is far from over.
Just when I thought he was about to restore a bit of his dignity by remaining silent, Mosley further illustrates that he was a far more political (read: bickering) player than a true President!
In my eyes he’s just dragging F1 and the FIA through the mud even further when Todt’s response via the FIA statement was a lot more restrained and logical in its arguments.
I really wish Mosley would just go away. Briatore boasting to the press about winning is to be expected and is widely being discredited by people like yourselves Joe, but why oh why does Mosley stoop to his level and match tit-for-tat?
Grrrr!
The FIA is so crooked that they went after the Briatore instead of Renault.
But they went after McLaren, instead of Coughlan (or Denis).
They do what suits them, and this time it has backfired. It is called double standards and when you have double standards you loose all moral authority and by default you loose all authority.
I think to get stuck about whether Briatore is good or bad misses the point. The point is the FIA cannot punish anyone because under Max Mosley they lost all power.
The FIA needs to be punished, and perhaps this court ruling will act as such. Mosley was a highly incompetent man only in power because his skills of illusion were exceptional.
Just for the record, when I used the word ‘laughable’ I was referring to the FIA hearing, not to anything Renault have done.
@Drew, just for the record: Barry Bonds was indicted for allegedly lying to a grand jury, not for any transgression in a sporting event.
“A bad analogy is like a leaky screwdriver.”
Dave
Don’t you think that this latest Mosley outburst makes it look like he thinks he’s still the President?
Joe,
It concerns me that FIA decisions now may be overturned by local courts. The precedent that is set in Paris suggests that an FIA decision is no longer “final”, thereby undermining the authority of the governing body. This could spill over to other aspects of racing, including what occurs on the track. I would hate to see race results decided by local (biased) courts. I wonder whether the FIA can seek out some protection from the EU on this issue.
@ bloomsm
FIA decisions have always been subject to being overturned by local courts. Previously, the FIA was quite careful in choosing defendants and verdicts that would not invite such appeals. In this case, they ignored all previous restraint.
With this Briatore matter, Max Mosley brought on this loss almost entirely by himself by ignoring his prior reserve. He went too far.
The moment Mosley handed Briatore a lifetime ban, the French national courts were DESTINED to overturn the FIA. I predicted this verdict many months ago.
For a great many years, Mosley’s FIA courts were a system with no accountability. A system wherein Mosley was judge, jury, and executioner. In this and most other FIA court cases, there were a massive number of irregularities. For instance, in this matter it has been publicly admitted by FIA representatives that the Briatore decision was made PRIOR to the actual hearing!
The Mosley courts were rarely more than a fancy venue for Max to deliver his dictates. The only reason the FIA got away with this until now is because they’d previously chosen soft targets. They’d hit companies or individuals who were sensitive to PR, or in many cases, simply scared of even greater punishsment.
By giving Briatore a lifetime ban, the FIA attacked a man of means and gave him absolutely nothing to lose. Mosley created a perfect storm for a long deserved FIA defeat in the national courts.
The proper resolution to the FIA’s problem is not for the FIA to find some way to operate outside the domain of national courts. Nor is it to blame Briatore or the national courts. The solution is for the FIA to operate Proper courts with Proper principles of jurisprudence, Proper transparency, and defined limits on conflicts of interest between the FIA and the accused.
Alternatively, the FIA could divest itself entirely of this court business and allow all matters to be handled by the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne.
Either way, Briatore has broken the dam. If the FIA doesn’t improve the honesty of their justice system, any future defendant would be crazy not to appeal a punishment to the French courts. If the FIA want to avoid having punishments overturned in the national courts going forward, they’re going to have to start running honest courtrooms.
Will it happen? Will the FIA actually start running honest courts? The problem with running an honest FIA court it that it would remove the greatest single power from the FIA president, that of having near total control over FIA court verdicts. It’s a huge power, a massive power, one that made Mosley a very feared man.
Perhaps Todt IS prepared to give up the President’s mightiest weapon, but I somehow doubt it.
Hi Joe
Your post above: “I am sure that Renault would not like to hear you going around saying that its investigation into the affair was “laughable”…..”
I think this view is what has got the FIA into this mess. Motivated by the desperation to not lose a manufacturer which is in the greater scheme of things a very short-term issue whereas the perceived integrity of the sport is not – manufacturers come and go!
Renault were and are the relevant licence holder to pursue – they employed Briatore. They took no action against him for any of his previous escapades and so the decision to give them immunity is both perverse and the cause of this continuing fallout. There is has been difficulty many times in marrying the punishment of a company with the actions of an individual (think Railtrack etc).
Had Renault and Piquet been sanctioned as they should have been it would then be open for them to pursue Briatore through the courts and the matter though still long and drawn out would not have been as embarassing for the sport as a whole or the FIA in particular.
I think this is and always has been the problem with the FIA under Moseley – sensible rules, procedures and statutes are put in place and then ignored to try and square a circle precisely at the point where they are needed!
In this instance whether Moseley was motivated by revenge, the desire to avoid embarassment for the FIA or a genuine wish to pursue justice is not really the issue. Rather that in fudging the rules the whole thing fails to hang together.