The Red Bull debacle in Turkey has brought the management of Red Bull Racing into the focus and perhaps it is worth explaining a little about how it works – and who does what.
The team is listed as being Austrian, but it is based in Milton Keynes in England. In reality it is about as Austrian as bangers and mash. I doubt more than a couple of people at the factory could name the Austrian Chancellor. Nonetheless, it is widely believed that it is the Austrians who make the decisions – which is their prerogative, as they also pay the bills…
The team is owned by by Red Bull GmbH, an Austrian company based in Fuschl am See, in the scenic Salzkammergut area, in the hills behind Salzburg. Red Bull GmbH was established in 1984 by Austrian toothpaste salesman Dietrich Mateschitz and he continues to manage the company, although he is only a 49% shareholder in the business, the majority being owned by Thailand’s Chaleo Yoovidhya and his son Chalerm. Chaleo had established the TC Pharmaceutical Company in 1962 and sold a drink called Krating Daeng, which is often translated as Red Bull, but in fact means Red Gaur, a gaur being a member of the buffalo family which is found in Asia.
Red Gaur, however, does not translate well in English and so when Mateschitz decided to do a deal to sell the product in Europe, he changed the name (and the taste) to fit the European market. The company began marketing the drink in Austria in 1987 – one of its first ambassadors being F1 driver Gerhard Berger. The drink was on sale only in Austria until 1992 when it was launched in Hungary. After that international expansion accelerated and at the end of 1994 Mateschitz bought control of the Sauber F1 team to bring his brand to the attention of the world. The company entered the US market in 1997 and the Middle East in 2000.
Berger’s mentor in the early years of his career was Helmut Marko. A doctor of law from the University of Graz, Marko was at school with Jochen Rindt. Helmut was a good racing driver and in 1971 (a year after Rindt’s death) he shared victory in the Le Mans 24 Hours with Gijs van Lennep, driving a factory Martini-Porsche 917K. Later that year Marko did a deal to race F1 with an Ecurie Bonnier McLaren M7C. He failed to qualify for the German GP when the car ran out of fuel on the first lap out of the pits. He gave up on that idea and did four races with a fourth BRM. The following year, still with BRM, he made a big impression at the French GP at Clermont-Ferrand, qualifying on the third row of the grid, and was running in fifth place when a piece of stone, thrown up by the cars ahead, smashed through the visor of his helmet and he lost the sight in one eye.
He never raced in F1 again but afterwards began to support young racers from Austria and Germany and ran his own teams. His first real protege was Helmut Koinigg, although the young Austrian was killed almost immediately when he crashed a Surtees in the US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen in 1974.
Marko’s next charges were German Hans Georg Burger and Austrian Markus Hottinger, who raced a BMW M1 entered by Marko in 1979. Both would be killed in Formula 2 accidents in the course of 1980. Marko also helped the young Jo Gartner and ran a young Christian Danner at Le Mans in 1981, but his first real success came with Berger in the early 1980s when the RSM Marko team ran Gerhard in the European Formula 3 Championship. In the same era Marko also embarked on a career as a hotelier, and now runs two successful hotels in his home town of Graz.
When Berger graduated to F1, Marko turned his team to touring cars with a DTM operation for the likes of Volker Weidler, Jorg Van Ommen and ski champion Franz Klammer before returning to Formula 3 running Karl Wendlinger to the German F3 title in 1989.
In racing his next success came in 1994 when Jorg Muller won the 1994 German Formula 3 Championship for Marko. The team moved up to Formula 3000 and in 1996 won the title. This meant that in 1997 RSM Marko was the team to be in in Formula 3000. The team ran Juan Pablo Montoya and Australian Craig Lowndes, both highly-rated, but it was not a happy year. Marko questioned Montoya’s fitness despite the fact that the Columbian won three races. Lowndes had a miserable time. At the end of that year Lowndes went home to Australia and Montoya switched to rival Super Nova Racing and won the title in 1998.
The Red Bull link with RSM Marko began a year later when Marko convinced Mateschitz to fund a Red Bull Junior Team. Its lead driver was Brazil’s Enrique Bernoldi. Marko was a big Bernoldi fan and told Mateschitz that Bernoldi should be promoted to F1 with Sauber in 2001. Mateschitz’s insistence on this would lead to the end of his relationship with Peter Sauber. The Swiss team owner wanted to hire an unknown called Kimi Raikkonen for 2001 and refused to agree to Bernoldi. Mateschitz continued to fund the team, but the Sauber shares were sold to Credit Suisse and Red Bull began to look to buy a team which he could control.
In the same era the Red Bull Junior Team signed up seven young drivers, including Christian Klien. That would increase in 2002 to 10 drivers, then 14 in 2003, including rising Italian star Tonio Liuzzi. Despite the best efforts of Liuzzi, Patrick Friesacher and Ricardo Mauricio, Marko’s Red Bull Junior Formula 3000 team did not do well and it was shut down at the end of 2003 when the Red Bull sponsorship was transferred to Christian Horner’s Arden Motorsport, which had dominated the formula in 2002 and 2003 with Tomas Enge and Bjorn Wirdheim. Liuzzi drove and the result was a complete walkover in 2004, with Liuzzi winning seven of the 10 races and second driver Robert Doornbos adding another. At the end of that year Red Bull found what it was looking for and bought Jaguar Racing. Mateschitz/Marko hired Christian Horner to run it. David Coulthard was taken on as an experienced number one and the Austrians decided to keep Christian Klien, despite the fact that the Red Bull driver had achieved little with Jaguar in 2004. The decision was taken to alternate Klien and Liuzzi, which was a seriously flawed idea for all concerned and was stopped after just a few races, leaving Liuzzi in the lurch.
At the end of 2005 Mateschitz was convinced to buy Minardi and rename it Scuderia Toro Rosso. Liuzzi was pushed into this with F1 new boy Scott Speed, while Coulthard and Klien stayed on at Red Bull Racing. Berger was called in to run Toro Rosso, but there were serious tensions inside the team which ended with Speed leaving, to make way for Marko’s golden boy Sebastian Vettel. By the end of that year Klien’s star was fading and he was replaced at Red Bull Racing by Doornbos.
In 2007 Red Bull Racing took the odd decision to hire Mark Webber to partner Coulthard. Webber was well-connected with Renault and the team wanted the French engines. This left Liuzzi and Vettel in Toro Rosso, under the management of Berger. There then began a power struggle between Berger and Marko, using the drivers as pawns, as they fought for Mateschitz’s ear. Liuzzi was dropped in favour of Sebastien Bourdais for 2008 – a move that ultimately proved to be disastrous for Berger, although he enjoyed the glory of Vettel (Marko’s driver) winning at Monza.
In 2009 Vettel was moved to Red Bull Racing to replace Coulthard. Berger disappeared from the scene and Vettel was replaced by Sebastien Buemi. Bourdais was then fired in the middle of 2009 and replaced by another Red Bull youngster Jaime Alguersuari.
It is clear that while Red Bull’s “motorsport consultant” does not appear officially in the team structure, he is the real force inside the operation. The team principal is Horner, but he has seen from what happened to Berger and knows that it is wise to stay sweet with Marko.
Who runs what? Perhaps it is worth listening to David Sears, who back in 1997 hired Juan Pablo Montoya away from RSM Marko.
“Juan Pablo and his dad came along at the end of 1997 and asked if we could help him,” said Sears. “At the time he had been racing for Helmut Marko who, along with Gerhard Berger, wanted to sign him up on a management contract. However Juan and I agreed a deal at Jerez when Jacques Villeneuve won the World Championship. As soon as Marko heard about it he threw Juan Pablo and his dad out of the hospitality bus and they came and ate with us. That is why I will never be allowed to run a Red Bull driver in my team as Marko runs the Red Bull affair”.
The events in Turkey in 2010 suggest that this is still the case. Marko was outspoken in his criticisms of Mark Webber after the collision between the Australian and Vettel. Christian Horner was a little more circumspect but was critical of Webber when there seemed little reason to be so.
With the fastest car and two very good drivers, Red Bull Racing is closer to success now than it has ever been. But what happened in Turkey has thrown a spanner in the works. Webber is not happy yet leads the World Championship. Vettel seems a little desperate having been beaten in three consecutive races by Webber. Horner looks uncomfortable.
For the moment Marko rules the roost…
joeblogsf1 
Joe,
Horner revealed that two laps prior to the incident, Webber had turned his engine down to try and conserve fuel – which cost him 0.18 seconds per lap.
0.18 sec per lap..!? Sounds nothing..
Fantastic digging, Joe.
Only here would we find such a well linked story. It only goes to show how much really happens in the backstage of F1 and we just see the gloss of it all. It’s a bit sad, really, but it’s part of the sport we love.
Thank you!
Fascinating backstory Joe. Thanks and here is a link where Marko admits to team orders! Really! Here’s the translated version link ..
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.motorsport-total.com%2Ff1%2Fnews%2F2010%2F06%2FMarko_Anweisung_war_keine_Stallorder_10060111.html&sl=de&tl=en
You’re welcome!
Fascinating stuff. the season is really getting interesting now. If Webber were to leave RBR, that seems like it would work best in Marko’s favor. I wonder who they’d promote to the 2nd RBR seat…
Mark Webber sadly may win some battles but will never win the war at Red Bull , Helmut Marko will get his way !! and in all probability a Red Bull driver will not deliver the championship that owner Mateschitz so badly wants. We may well see Red Bull and Mark part ways, if the rumours are to be believed he may well already have a new drive next year. If he doesn’t he better find one as he cannot win this war !
Mateschitz has been great for F1 as it has been great for him!
There are already rumours that Red Bull is looking for a title sponsor. could this crash alter the face of F1 and Red Bull ? only tme will tell.
the comments that Dr Marko made regarding the blame were not appropriate for somebody that is considered to be level headed manger with his hands in control of events at Red Bull
Thanks for that Joe.
Made my morning coffee a million times better.
Thanks Joe – great post (again)
As an aside – a friend of mine works at RBR, and indeed was there before it became RBR. I don’t ask him for inside information, because it would be uncomfortable for him.
However, he repeatedly says that it is a c*** place to work, with quite an unsavoury culture.
Now you may ask – why doesn’t he leave? Well [a] he’s been with the team (not RBR) for a long time, [b] he has a family to feed, and [c] in this economy very few people are moving teams, and creating the right vacancies…
I share this because in a team with cultural deficiencies, this kind of ‘crisis’ will only get worse not better…
Joe,
Great article as always.
For avid fans of the sport, getting ‘insider insights’ like this are golddust. It’s certainly helping me get a sense of persective of F1 as a whole.
Even after 20 years of following F1, it still amazes me how much the off-the-track stuff like the Red Bull’s internal power struggles are as important as the racing in shaping how they’ll do this year.
What an insightful, interesting and fascinating piece. Best piece I’ve seen on the subject and much needed. Explains much about horner’s comments after the gp. Thanks for explaining it all to us Joe.
I knew a little bit about Dr Marko prior to the race weekend, and I thought he was no longer with the team or was peripheral to the main team running the young driver program. It is now even more apparent that he has a lot of sway withing the main RBR team, which is not a good thing.
The Red Bull image and the money being invested in the team simply do not match up with the Dr Marko style of management. He is placing his own interests above those of the team and the broader Red Bull brand, which has caused irreparable damage to the company, IMO, in the past week.
I will continue to support Webber, and I hope he wins the WDC this year – but I will no longer support RBR the team until there is a change in their structure to the point that Horner can run the team as a true team principal and not have to deal with Austrian henchmen.
If the debacles at Torro Rosso were not enough justfication to fire Dr Marko, than the damage he has caused this week should be adequate to see him on his way. His only success has been Vettel, but at the cost of a potential constructors championship and a few years lost at Torro Rosso.
btw, the Helmut Marko Wikipedia entry has been edited and defaced numerous times since Sunday, a lot of the edits are very amusing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Marko
Thank you, Joe. Much I didn’t know there. But your last line is just dripping with innuendo – “For the moment Marko rules the roost…”
Come on, you know you were looking for a bite there!
Surprises me that Marko was pushing for Bernoldi over Raikkonen for the Sauber seat all those years ago. Bernoldi was never anything that special in lower formulas, whilst I understand that Kimi was instantly very impressive in his formula 1 tests with Sauber. Think Peter made the right call…….
Great reporting on all this Joe.
I love it when we reach the “palace intrigue” stage of the season. The Red Bull fight, a nicely brewing fiasco at Ferrari — couldn’t be better.
The emerging question in my mind is whether RBR invokes the nuclear option and fires Webber in the next month or so.
Notwithstanding all the team-harmony talk, RBR don’t want Mark to keep on winning if that takes points away from Vettel. Mark, who seems to display Mansellesque truculence and (more importantly) speed when he feels put upon, is going to keep on winning. He is clearly mentally stronger than Vettel right now, and I can’t imagine him backing down.
This means that RBR will have a PR disaster any way they look at it — Mark making salty comments about having won despite the best efforts of the team, being denied a contract, and then decamping for Williams (or parts unknown) will do nothing for the Red Bull brand.
They might decide it’s better to fire Webber now, promote Alguersuari, bring Ricciardo into Toro Rosso, and hope that Vettel, with some aggressive cuddling, can get his head together, make up ground and become WDC in the 12 races remaining.
The PR would be terrible — but arguably no worse than what they would be in for at the end of the year anyway. I don’t want that to happen to Mark — but it doesn’t seem completely beyond the bounds of possibility.
I can’t help but fee;Berger would have done a far better job.
Vettel is prodigiously talented but I sometimes feel they have pushed him too quickly and as a result, whether he’s ready or not, he is clearly seen as a ‘world champion elect’ with all the pressure that comes with it. He has also seemingly started to believe whatever it is they have been telling him and (much like schumacher) doesn’t like being made to feel 2nd best by his team mate, he also seems to have that trait of buckling under pressure, hence his history of poor overtaking manouvres.
Having the next schumacher in your team is all well and good but unfortunately unless you are prepared to run a team specifically for him (and therefore never expose him to any undue pressure within the team) the project is likely to produce far less championships.
The other point of course is that the field now has so much talent in depth that you cant get away with being imperfect and being unable to handle pressure from drivers at least as talented as yourself. Schumacher was a one off who had a team created around him and no consistent challengers on his level, Marko needs to run him as Sebastien Vettel not ‘Schumi 2’ otherwise the whole thing could collapse around his ears and we could see Red Bull with 0 championships (despite having the best car) and Vettel scurrying off to Mercedes as soon as Ross produces a winning car .. and won’t Ross just know how to cater to having an exceptional but flawed driver?
Great piece Joe, one of your best.
It doesn’t seem to paint a good impression of Marko. It appears he has had success through numbers. The amount of drivers he’s been involved with at least one or two will make it. All the more reason for him to be determined to get Vettel to win.
Nice writing, Joe, thanks for the insight. It strikes me that there are Helmut Markos in many flawed companies around the world. Perhaps there are more Helmut’s around us than we think. It is clear that the curmudgeonly old man is making mistakes now, and probably has in the past. But how does a man like this find his path to begin with? How did he reach his position when he clearly does not have the best interests of his own organization in mind. This strikes close to home for me as I am in a position not dissimilar to that of Webber, or Scott Speed, or Tonio Liuzzi. I have found a much better deal elsewhere but as I leave, joining a number of colleagues over the last year doing the same, I wonder, what is in the head of this person who controls our organization?
Some joke that our leader is constructing his own politburo, is this not what Marko has done? When the leaders who work for you cow before you and rewrite their press releases to present the facts as the Marko figure sees them, how is it obvious to everyone in the world, save the Marko figure, that the organization is operating to serve the one man, and is no longer serving its purpose, in this case, winning races and championships?
Digging deeper, there must have been an internal effort within the team to provide Vettel with a path to overtake Mark. What is the purpose of this? I admire and respect both Webber and Vettel, but this chain of events is ludicrous. Clearly, Red Bull is as poisoned an organization as Torro Rosso.
A final thought. Clearly, Webber should be looking for a drive. He’s earned that seat at Ferrari IMO. No question, the man is excellent, as his fans have been saying all along. OK, this is obvious. Consider, for a moment, Vettel’s position. He is in a situation that is just as unhealthy as Mark’s. He is being mislead and favored by an organization that is attempting to adjust reality to make him win. This is no good for Vettel just as it is no good for Mark.
Sebastion should ALSO be looking for another drive outside of Red Bull.
I sdeem to have heard that Matenitz’s son also owns a couple of per cent in the RB company. Does he have a son etc.?
A few weeks ago I posted somewhere (here? JAF1?) that I thought Horner was an excellent team principal. What a misjudgement that was.
Vettel drove into Webber, that is clear from the video footage. That they could blame the driver that did nothing wrong says it all.
I feel sorry for Weber, doesn’t matter what he does, all the time its going to be undermined by the ineqaulity inside the team (despite all the protestations otherwise). We know its unequal – we saw that on Sunday, or in my case on iPlayer on Monday).
I’ve lost respect for Red Bull and the team. Waste of space if they are going to behave like that. You spend 5 years building credibility and throw it away just like that. For me, they are finished. Don’t care if they win or produce good cars, they are not an honourable team – and that is what counts.
Who would want to partner Vettel now, knowing the cards are stacked against them? Time for Webber to look elsewhere – he has shown he has what it takes. Shouldn’t be too hard to get a good drive.
Thanks for that Joe, it’s exactly that kind of reporting that makes you the best place for detailed information on F1!
Clearly the spirit of The Piranha Club is alive and well in RBR!
Joe,
Just to echo the thoughts of others – an excellent piece and very timely given Marko’s somewhat unwelcome prominence in our collective vision.
James
Tough spot for Horner, does he have the guts to go all in and back Webber? It’s more than a decent shot that he will make it (at least much better chance than Berger had with Bourdais anyway) and they will both come out as stronger man no matter what. Or should he keep the big picture in mind that Newey is tied up here for the foreseeable future, and have good shots at championships, but always with a master lurking behind? F1 is business at the end of the day though isn’t it…
Great article Joe. Thanks for the back story. I had heard some of it before, but it’s nice to see it all in one place. Excellent job!
I feel for Webber. It doesn’t take a lot of reading between the lines to assume that Webber is in a pickle politically within the team. Not a happy place to be for him. I’ve never been a big Webber fan, but it would be a shame if the team scuppers his chance (maybe the only one he’ll get in his career) to win a WDC.
I notice by Autosport that Christian Horner is now shifting the finger of blame back towards Mark, claiming that he asked the team to ask Vettel to lift…
Tomorrow: “…shocking attitude … tradition of excellence at RBR…”
Friday: “…no right to ask his team-mate to slow down … we need real racers…”
Saturday: “…unsporting … wondering for some time about his fit with the team…”
Monday: “…take the actions required to ensure the team can function on the highest level…”
… and Mark out by next Tuesday. Wouldn’t put it past them.
Ash: never going to happen. Not only will firing Webber damage their chances of the titles, but it would damage their brand as well.
Besides, Webber is inter-woven into RBR in many ways:
– He co-owns a GP3 team with Horner
– He co-sponsors some of the Red Bull driver talent, such as Ricciardo
– His manager is Flav, who used to be the team principal at Renault, a team Mark has deep connections with and who supply RBR with engines (it isn’t uncommon for engine suppliers to be given one of the race seats for their own drivers as part of a supply deal)
– I also think Mark has the type of personality that suits the Red Bull brand (probably even more than Seb does) as he is upfront and charismatic
A great retrospective and a brilliant read. Thanks Joe, enjoyed it immensely.
This, alarmingly, adds even more weight to Dr Marko’s post race comments regarding Mark, not to mention his open bias towards Seb. It puts Christian Horner in a particularly unenviable position.
Christian can say the drivers will be treated evenly for the rest of the season until the cows come home. Yet clearly the person pulling the strings has other ideas.
HI Joe,
where does this leave Webber and Horner’s relationship on their GP3 team?
Great piece.
Joe, Thanks for this insightful report. Great information on how RBR works on the inside.
The overwhelming outpouring of public support for Webber must have had some effect on RBR changing their public stance several times before coming to terms with the fact that Mark Weber was not to blame. Even RBR’s own website has angry comments on this topic from fans around the world.
Cannot wait for qualifying in Canada.
Super article Joe, its always refreshing to come to this blog and get a real insiders view.
There’s clearly potential for huge fireworks at RB. But obviously Webber is in a much stronger position than the likes of Liuzzi was but its unlikely that he’ll do or say anything that will jeopardise his immediate future with the team.
Mark Webber never turned down his engine. Look at the lap times. He was doing comparable times with Vettel and Hamilton until lap 37 when Vettel miraculously sped up, and no, Vettel was under no pressure from Hamilton.
This whole thing smells…………..
Breezy…mucho thanx for the Hangar 7 transcript…..makes it farkin pretty obvious really doesnt it!! Lets just hope Mark joins Ferrari next year because the last 3 races hes proven he can give anyone a run for their money if hes in the right car!!! Red Bull only want to re-sign? resign? him and keep him out of the fray for next year if he does beat Vettell this year!!!! They are playing the old “Kepp your friends close, but keep your enemies closer” ploy!!! crafty bstds!! fak em Mark and join Ferrari when they ask!!! Fernando and Mark in the same team?!!!! now that will be interesting…..fo sho! #:)
and now we learn that Mark had already asked the team to tell Vettell to back off !!!!? very suspicious given all the back scratching and heat of the moment comment bu!!sh!t!!!!! #:)
Fantastic article Joe. Its stuff like this that makes me both visit here every day and subscribe to GP+
Just wondering, Joe, can you think of a previous case where a team (or principle of) has been so eager to ditch a driver that they did it mid-season, with the guy leading the championship? It seems pretty unlikely to me, but then what makes all this intrigue so fascinating is that we see time and time again how being in control of a mega-budget doesn’t necessarily mean that someone will exhibit commonsense, or indeed even possesses much of it!
The root of all this unpleasantness at Red Bull clearly seems to stem from the machinations of Helmut Marko. Would Vettel have dared make the move without Marko’s interference and overt favoritism? I don’t think he would have.
I very much doubt that both Horner and Marko will be at Red Bull at the start of next season, in Marko’s case, perhaps a lot sooner.
Horner is now is a considerable position of strength. If he has Newey on his side, I’d say he is in a nearly unassailable position of strength. Were Horner and Newew to tell Mateschitz that it’s Marko or us, I don’t see that Mateschitz would have a lot of choice. He’d have to push Marko aside. Doing otherwise would set the team back YEARS.
Horner and Marko are clearly at loggerheads. It is very likely that Horner now has the juice to push Marko out, one only wonders if Horner knows this.
Thanks for the great piece. Seems Marko is as political and villainous a character as Flavio Briatore and probably Ron Dennis.
What a great piece Joe.
I had heard that Marko generally acted like some third rate egoiste and outside Austria, was considered by more serious Austro/Germano/Swiss racing aristocracy (Berger, Lauda, Haug, Sauber) as a over self important blunderer, especially with regard to his talent spotting ability, which has had as many duds as superstars.
But crucially, he does have the key to the Mateschitz moneybags. Mateschitz is an enthusiast, who needed a marketing tool. And bear in mind RBR is but one of a number of RB marketing fripperies. Air Racing, rallying, ski-ing are all wonderful tax write offs with the benefit of fantastic corporate entertainment opportunities.
Bottom line: Your analysis is spot on Joe. The back story is the somewhat small minded, political power games being played out around the RB board room table, and the cosy evening chats between kindred spirits, Mateschitz and Marko.
Whist Marko is around there will always be infighting and ego empire building. And meddling. And bad decisions. And people like Horner scared of their own shadow!
We are not talking one of the sports grandee team owners here. We’re talking about a billionaire constantly looking for a tax break and a way to spend a marketing budget. And a bunch of has-beens with dollar signs in their eyes.
Shame really. Vettel has very obviously shown he is not invincible, and everyone else has very obviously noticed.
Sign that Ferrari contract Mark and let’s get back to doing some racing.
Fantastic post! It’s fascinating to see this phenomenon ruling the roost without any direct line of responsibility…
What is quite clear is that Marko refuses to support talent unless he can claim credit for himself. Dismissing Montoya, pushing for Bernoldi over Raikkonen, and now Vettel over Webber…
As you say something is going to have to give sooner or later, I just fear that given Marko’s length of service with Deistrich it might be the rest of the management that is shot down first!
There was an interesting article on Marko in last february’s Motor Sport, which you’ll find at
http://www.motorsportmagazine.co.uk/2009/12/30/latest-issue-%E2%80%93-february-2010/
I can’t manage to make it big enough to read (I read it at the time) but perhaps you brainy guys will manage.
Very interesting post, Joe. Especially, I’ve now understood Horner’s position. He’s not “one of us”, having been brought in, and is now is caught between the proverbial rock and hard place. He can’t repair his team with one hand tied behind his back.
I never felt Toro Rosso was a happy place either, even when Gerhard was there.
And no, they can’t get rid of Mark in mid-season. Surely the engines would go too. But he can’t be comfortable. People are saying here and elsewhere that he now has the upper hand. I don’t see it, and his lead of 15 points is nothing with the scoring system this year.
I can see both Mark and CH going at the end of the year. Meantime, hang in there, mate.
This is why I read your blog, Joe, as well as listen to the “aside with Joe” podcasts. I love the intrigue of F1 as well as the sporting element, and it seems you have the time, inclination and years of experience to bring it to our attention.
I suppose it’s nothing new for a team to have the attitude that the driver is just another employee, and that regardless of the rules, team orders really do happen all the time. Still, it seems odd that RBR would want to release Vettel at that point in the race. To do what? Build a gap to Hamilton? It’s not like Lewis was threatening to overtake Vettel even without Webber in between. More likely it was just their attempt to get the 1-2 the “right” way round. Good for Webber holding his ground (and no more) I’d say.
This is fascinating stuff. Always good to read something I know I could never write myself
Just to continue the echo: thanks for the great article!
It does leave me a bit curious. Seeing as Marko is deeply involved, and that Kimi got the Sauber seat over Montoya, what kind of validity these claims have: http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/19144.html
I read your article first and it seems to validate what I’ve heard about Red Bull not being interested in Kimi.
this is brilliant journalism… thank you…
Joe brilliant read… Helmut Marko now out in the open so to speak.. Ithink the relationship between webber @ Horner will be ok. Mark may well finish anyway at the end of the year.despite what happens as he has many irons in the fire. he may well pull beers in his English pub..Mark had many ups and downs remember he survived the Mercedes flip at Le Mans.. one snippett while having lunch here in Aus. at a well know italian restarunt u know well..he poked his head into the kitchen to say thanks for lunch.. this was much appreciated.. Mark is a true Professional in all respects
according to http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/story/19144.html
Not only is Helmut blaming Webber publicly, but he’s trying to get Raikkonen back in his seat.
What the hell sort of power trip is this guy on? He can negotiate deals on behalf of RBR now? Sems he wont be happy until he has Todt’s job.
Seriously, what does he bring to the table? Racing expertise? Berger had him covered. Developmental ability? He skipped on Raikkonen and has not really developed anyone of note except Vettel, who, while a good driver, has not really had to pay his dues as a secondary racer. He’s being coddled, and as a result he can’t deal with the pressure of Mark beating him.
Should make for an interesting season anyway. Webber will either become a golden boy who overcame all obstacles, or the sacrificial lamb laid on the later of Marko’s ego.
Joe,
Please dig more into why webber was suddenly capable of turning his tune back up after the pit on lap 42 and then was able to set the fastest laps of the day.
How would that of been possible if Webber’s car honestly needed to conserve fuel to finish the race?
Please investigate – the public have a right to know the real reason as to why Webber was told to tune down. And if this was a team order given by Macko or Horner to Webbers tech.
So Joe,
I essence – you’ve just recanted a history of a guy who has shown absolutely no talent for choosing drivers his entire management career.
Wouldn’t it be some irony, that after Marko is put out to pasture, that Webber becomes responsible for driver talent at Red Bull….
Great analysis, Joe, and it corresponds with the impression I’ve gathered based on what I’ve read about Marko in the past and surmised about his role and dealings with RBR. Just one nitpick:
Speed wasn’t fired after 2006 and Vettel installed then. Speed was let go after the Nurb 2007 race, and Vettel was then installed.
Also, there’s another reason why I think Webber went to Red Bull in 2007: he had already driven for the under the Jaguar banner, so he was very familiar with a lot of the people there. Surely, this is something that wasn’t lost on Horner. It also introduces a very interesting dynamic in that the management and corporate side are clearly backing Vettel, yet Webber has roots with team members dating back to Jaguar. (In fact, he’s raced all but three of his seasons with the team) Marko, Horner, and corporate are playing a dangerous game by calling out Webber like they have (even the “it was both their fault” was obnoxiously apologetic for Vettel), as they risk splitting it in two.
This guy Marko is unbelievable. RBR should do two things to help the company restore some public trust in them after the PR disaster by senior members. First they should send Marko packing and fire him, secondly they should publicly apologize to Mark Webber.
Great story Joe, as usual.
Mark has been there a few years now, so presumably has Marko and co figured out, and I doubt there will be any surprises for him, either in what has happened or what will happen. I have little doubt that Mark has his exit strategy planned, even if this is not his preferred option.
I think the big stories will revolve around RBR management, the impact on sponsors, and Marrk’s next step. On the last, if he leaves RBR my money would be on Renault, although remember he has connections to Mercedes too!
Finally, is HM running his own agenda, or is he speaking for DM? The answer to that may have a bearing on his future with RB.
Once again, well done Joe.
Ah this is very helpful. I didn’t know all this.
Still you would think Dr Marko would have learnt some PR skills over the years.
I do feel sorry for Horner as he seems like a decent person. But the favouritism is a bit too obvious.
I read that Horner is Seb’s team manager. Does that not create a conflict of interest? How does that work?
it Great piece, nice
Excellent point above – it is Newey who is the star of the team, not Vettel. I wonder if the moneyman realises this?
Thanks for this very interesting background info.
Intense!
Fantastic journalism! Really enjoyed reading this blog post
Very good article.
Just one minor flaw: You suggest that Vettel moved to STR in 2006 while it actually happened in 2007.
I enjoyed your piece about Marko, but there is so much to telll about him and his treatment of Jo Gartner and Christian Klien, the latter out performed David Coulthard in 2005 & 06, but was let down regularly by the RBR car. I have listed the data of all important GP practice, qualification, and race sessions, and CK was far faster than DC. CK was dropped, because he would not go to the USA and drive the Champ Car, that Marko had arranged for him. Also with the the team wanting Renault Engines in 2007, I presume they had to take Mark Webber as part of the package. I have been attending F1 for over 40 years, as a photographer, and saw Marko drive in 1971 & 72. I was there whe he had the accident that ended his career. I have plenty of more facts to sort out from articles I saved from the 2005 & 06 seasons on the treatment of Christian Klien, to show how he was poorly treated by the team, and the misinformation that was spread about him after he was ‘dumped’ unfairly by RBR. Please email me, and I can send you the information lists that I have so far.
As you can see I am not a fan of Marko, he has ruined the racing talent of many young drivers. As you have mentioned we could have missed the great talent of Kimi Raikkonen, if it had been up to him.
Looking forward to your reply for the Data lists.
Maureen Magee.
Thanks Joe, you have done your home work again, it explanes a lot, Dood told me you were good! CJ
Very nice information ! thanks,i have been searching this over the net for few days.
Joe,
Great work. Excellent research
very good information, i get a lot of knowledge from here. i love this article and also your blog.
thanks.
I was amazed to read such a well documented story and all this background fits perfect now in place about my opinion on Dr. Marko. I agree with your comments about Marko-Webber relationship and those of us who saw the Turkey incident will not less criticize the comments of Dr. Marko after the race.
I’ve got your article in my search of some information about Marko, since I am writing a complete reference guide to all Formula One drivers and their mounts, even those drivers that were given the chance of a single test. With Marko, I am still searching for a fair picture of him with the McLaren M7C Ford he drove in his debut in F.1 with Ecurie Bonnier, back in 1971. So, any help will be much appretiated.
Again, congratulations for this excellent article.
Awesome article