The IndyCar Series is struggling somewhat at the moment, the result of the long and wasteful split between IRL and Champ Car, which allowed NASCAR to become the predominant force in US racing. Danica Patrick has helped keep up interest but she is now moving to NASCAR fulltime in 2012 and the open-wheeler series is looking for new tricks to catch the attention of US race fans. Last weekend the cars raced on the streets of Baltimore for the first time, which created a lot of interest and the plan is to announce soon that the series will be heading to China in 2012. IndyCar already races in Japan and wants to make the trip more cost-effective by adding a second race in Asia. The Chinese are keen and the word is that the city of Qingdao, which boasts an population of almost nine million people, is going to host an IndyCar race.
Qingdao, which is best known for its Tsingtao beer, is a seaside city, 500 miles to the north of Shanghai. The plan is for the authorities to build the world’s biggest motorsport oval, with a crowd capacity of 500,000, which will be about 15 percent larger than Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The aim, no doubt, is to emulate the success of the Indianapolis 500, for a Chinese audience. As the work will take a few years to complete the Qingdao authorities are planning to have IndyCars racing on the streets in order to build up a fanbase before the big new speedway is completed.
joeblogsf1 
Ahhh – walk before you can run comes to mind on the scale of that project… Good luck to them, but that will leave 495,000 empy seats to stick flags over come raceday. I don’t mean to be cynical as I want racing to work in China, and I want to see the Indycar series pick up. But its need to work from the bottom up, rather that such grand initial aims.
I like the Chinese GP, but again it seems half empty – do you have any thoughts on this Joe and how it may cross over to the Indycar idea?
ChrisP,
As I said elsewhere. That is what was said no doubt when they built Indianapolis in 1911.
Nice but Chinese ego out of control another waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere in China a bit like cart before the horse, You have seen F1 in China how many people go to this race from Shanghai population of what 30 million
Garry T,
I suspect that people said similar things when they built Indianapolis… One has to start somewhere and it is arrogant of the western world to think that only they can have motor racing.
Joe, this is the last year IndyCar races in Japan. Honda announced a couple of months ago that they would not fund the race anymore. The oval at Motegi was badly damaged in the earthquake and with no oval racing after this year, it may not be repaired. Therefore, the last IndyCar race will be on the road course. Nevertheless, the Tsingtao 500 should be an exciting project.
Wow a 500,000 seat oval, that’ll look mighty impressive with 30,000 people in it. Seriously why wouldn’t Indycar suggest they build a 150,000 seats and attempt to fill it. Good luck to Indycar though, they kind of need it, but with the manufacturers returning next year (and their important advertising budgets) they might begin to regain some profile.
They’ve had 5 years to try and make F1 work and it’s been a pitiful failure. Maybe oval racing will catch the fancy of the Chinese in a way that F1 could not but right now, this new venture just seems doomed to failure as well. Good luck to them.
Abhiljeet,
But you don’t understand what the Chinese want, do you? They are happy with the Grand Prix. OK, it has lost money, but it has raised the profile of Shanghai as a glamorous destination enormously.
I assume the ticket prices for IndyCar would be a lot less than what F1 charges. For the Montreal F1 race this year I paid some $500 for a three day pass. For the IndyCar race at New Hampshire, it was $50 for the Sunday race. That’s a novel concept: charge less and maybe a fan base will develop.
Robin Miller on the TV broadcast estimated that this race has a 70% chance of happening. I am kind of doubtful since IndyCar teams balked at Surfer’s Paradise, Austalia and Japan. In the last few years of CART they always announced a Koresn race that never happened. But since most of the drivers are not Americans and a Chinese-Dutch driver named Ho Pin-Tung has made an IndyCar start, IndyCar should try it. They couldn’t get any reputable NA$CAR drivers to sign up for the $5 million challenge at Las Vegas so try another long shot.
But it’s natural to be cynical about building an oval anywhere outside USA. Rockingham in the UK and Lausitzring in Germany see action only on the in-field. Ever since CART left Germany, the Lausitzring’s oval configuration is largely unused while after the demise of the doomed ASCAR racing series in the UK Rockingham’s oval seems to have totally lost its significance.
But the presence of Ho-Pin Tung should enliven interest in China, and kudos to the Chinese authorities in Qingdao for thinking there is great racing outside F1 too. And it’s a capital idea to first have the race in the streets to gauge spectator interest before moving to a purpose built facility. Wish the folks in India would see some sense too! The great thing is China has an F1 race, Superleague round, and now an IndyCar race too!
They could re-use those grandstands from Shanghai which have been converted into permanent advertising hoardings because the seats are never sold.
Then fill them with school children
I heard that IndyCar is leaving Japan after this year, and not going back for some time.
Hi Joe,
Linked to Indycar have you been following the Lotus engine in Indycar – increasingly looking like a lot of hot air but linked to your regular comments on Lotus on here – a good indicator of its motor racing strategy? KV Racing is the Lotus sponsored team but is going with Honda next year. Apparently Lotus aren’t answering calls from teams looking for them to supply them!
I love this series! It’s got professional teams and professional drivers for the most part. However, the series is run by incompetent amateurs and that makes it a lot of fun to watch.
The Toronto race on a street circuit where some parts are barely wide enough for 2 cars is actually not a race but a demolition derby. On the oval of Loudon they went full-course yellow because of rain and then re-started it when it was actually raining harder than when the yellow came out which promptly triggered a multi-car pile-up, and this despite all the drivers begging race control not to re-start because of track conditions. This weekend’s Baltimore race saw practice delayed because the track wasn’t ready. They then had to set up a silly chicane to slow the cars down so they wouldn’t be going too fast when they crossed TRAIN TRACKS. Before the start, as the cars were on their warm-up laps, a pick-up truck was backing up against a tire wall to push it back from the track surface. When they threw the green flag more than half the field was still in single file going through that silly chicane. They also had another incident where about half the field had to come to a dead stop. I didn’t see that crash as I had fallen asleep by then because the race was televised so late. I guess the networks felt they had more important events to cover this weekend.
There are slapstick comedies, this is slapstick racing.
when will they develop the idea of a world series and have a round at Rockingham, or who knows, they could even go round Silverstone!
This sounds like an interesting plan, but oval circuits outside the US don’t seem to be particularly successful after the first few years when the initial interest dies down. Remember the same idea of bringing indy/champ cars and Nascar to the UK? Anyone been to Rockingham oval (the UK one) recently?
Maybe if you have a government with deep pockets to underwrite the whole thing then it probably doesn’t matter if the track is not economically self-sustaining – as can be seen with the various new additions to the F1 circus!
I guess however the economics of Indycar and/or Nascar work, the fees charged to the circuits will be substantially less than Mr E’s!
More international races might help but they need some names in the series. As old as they were Indycar had more respectibility when Mario Andretti, Emerson Fittipaldi and Nigel Mansell were competing. The simple fact that Danica Patrick has helped Indycar keep their tip up in recent years tells you all you need to know about the state of racing the US. Don’t want to slam her too much but what has she actually done? One victory in 14yrs of racing. A pretty face has taken her a long way.
The .1rl street racing in China? What you talkin bout Joe? The .1rl is an all American all oval series. 🙄
Believe it when you see it, folks. It makes sense that they’d go overseas to try and grow the series, because NOBODY is watching state side, but F1 is International Top Tier racing, while the .1rl is club level racing at best, trying to pass itself off as top tier. Who’s gonna fall for that? Not many in the USA are, and the the rest of the world says we’re sum of tha stoopedest peepull on tha planit, so I doubt if they will either.
BTW, who are the 5 big name guest drivers competing for the 5 million $ prize at Vegas??? Oh… That’s right…. Rodeo boy couldn’t find anyone who could draw a crowd, and Roger and Chip couldn’t be bothered to supply cars for anyone else.
IIRC, they’re giving away 80,000 tickets for the closing farce in Vegas, too. It’ll be interesting to see if they can draw 20% of that. Oh, and the rodeo clown has said that he’ll quit if they draw under a .8 Nielsen rating. Of course, given his propensity for making grand announcements, but not follow through on them, I’m sure he’ll still be the H/G puppet running the clown car league next year, even with the .4 rating. It’s still too soon for FTG to spring forth and save AOWR… AGAIN…
jim,
You seem confused. The IRL died. It is now called IndyCar and it is a merger between what was left from CART/Champ Car and the IRL. The idea of an all-American oval series died long ago. At least “Rodeo Boy” is trying to keep the patient alive… What would you do? Pull the plug and have no single-seater racing in America?
Hi Joe,
IndyCar’s relationship with Japan ends this year I’m afraid, so for the time being this will continue to be a single event trip for the teams.
As far as I can gather from Terry Angstad, the oval would be ready for 2013 race, with one street event to take place next; however I am always wary about Angstad’s comments.
He has made a bad habit in recent years about announcing that a deal was about to be signed, only for it to fall through.
As for the sanctioning fee, IndyCar’s sanctioning fee for North American events is approximately $1.5 million (at a minimum), although that (understandably) rises for its trips to Brazil and Japan.
I do believe the series is close to securing a second race in Brazil for 2013 onwards, with Mexico also being discussed.
There is lots of ambition, indeed, in the series, but they also have some problems they need to sort at home first, such as the struggling oval races and poor cable TV numbers.
@Titus Pullo
There were two issues regarding no NASCAR appearances at the IndyCar race in Las Vegas next month.
Firstly, NASCAR will be racing 800 miles away. As Juan-Pablo Montoya noted several months ago, it would simply be too much for any driver to compete in practices, qualifying and two races for circuits that far apart over the course of three days.
Secondly, Kasey Kahne was rumoured to be very interested, but only if a seat was available at a top team – namely Penske or Ganassi, neither of which were willing to give space to an extra driver for the sake of a promotional activity.
This would be underlined by the fact that both squads may also be embroiled in a last day title battle between Dario Franchitti and Will Power.
As an aside, Hollywood stunt-driver and future NASCAR Nationwide competitor Travis Pastrano was due to sign up until he broke his leg last month in the middle of a test drive.
Oh well… these things happen I guess.
@riccbat
I was at Rockingham this past weekend. Yes, it was an ambitious project and yes, it was probably built in the wrong place. Corby is somewhat out of the way.
The fact that the circuit is in the middle of an industrial estate, means the circuit rarely comes across as pretty or attractive.
The problem with running an oval circuit for oval racing is that one cannot run IndyCar’s or (N)ASCAR’s in the rain on the oval circuit.
One of the major issues this country (the UK) has, is that it tends to rain quite a bit, especially when one ventures further north.
More Bahar/Group Lotus contretemps, IndyCar style:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-high-anxiety-over-2012-engine-supply/
Sample: “While Chevrolet and Honda, according to some teams, have been fairly transparent regarding engine availability, Lotus has been nearly invisible.”
Sell the tickets at $5 and not $180 like F1 and there will be no problem with attendance…
Agree completely. The Chinese didn’t want bumper crowds from the event, they wanted the prestige of hosting the race. Which they’ve got, in spades.
As for the oval, Rockingham and Lausitz suffered mostly because of the failure of CART. They were CART tracks, not IRL tracks, and the IndyCar hasn’t been back since. It’s a shame as they’re still good tracks, just never used.
Why can’t Indycars race on the existing Shanghai circuit?
Are these the American ones that can only go in a circle?
Is Indycar the same as CART?
Are IRL and Champcar the equivalent of the FIA?
Which one was it our Noige had a go at?
Will the farmers in China get any compensation when their land is taken from them? I understand that many were dispossessed when the Birds-nest was built and there seem to be many grievances in India where people have been chucked off their land. (which after centuries of family ownership was suddenly found to belong to a new corporation (regardless of all documentation) which then sold it for a vast profit to the developers, the original owners left to sit in the gutter.)
But seriously who in china can afford to go to such races, but the elite and foreigners.
No Joe I don’t think its what the people of China want, it is what a few Chinese officials and businessmen want and people who can latch on and make fortunes out of the bribes, and contracts for construction and supply. Yes F1 is a money circus which we accept in the west, but which in some less developed countries acts like a steamroller. Yes I am lumping F1 Indy and Champ together, is that not fair?
rpaco,
I do not know what to make of this screed of semi-consciousness.
If different Chinese cities want to build speedways of different kinds this is up to them.
In case of you have not heard, there is a vast Chinese middle class emerging, which is why all the western companies want to be in China. Middle classes may not fit the ideas of Chairman Mao, but he has been dead for a lot of years now and China has moved on. It is a perfect example of Communist Capitalism.
The Chinese government is just as repressive as the Bahraini’s. Why the enthusiasm Joe? Just sayin, not judging.
jonathan,
We have had this discussion before. There is repression everywhere if you want to find it. The only thing that racing people can do is to not get involved in regimes that will do them material damage, in image terms. China may or may not be as repressive as the Bahrainis, that is not really for us to judge, but it is not in the newspaper s every day for that reason. And one cannot point to crimes of yesteryear (Tiananmen Square) otherwise there would be no racing In Germany or Japan. or Argentina… Or South Africa… etc etc. I think the only wise criteria is not not be in a position where one is used by the bad guys to promote their goals, although then one gets into an argument of what constitutes a bad guy.
A great idea. Qingdao has a holiday feel to it – lots of massive seafood restaurants, the famous beer and the historic German legacy. Its a very attractive leisure city by Chinese standards. Then add in a massive corporate muscle and ambition of Haier (fridge capital of world!) and you can how they would want a world class event to bring attention and visitors to the city.
Ovals don’t work outside the U.S.? They don’t even work in the U.S. when it comes to open wheel racing. I think the new leadership of Indycar has finally made the George/Hulman family understand Indycar must race where they are wanted – in cities like St. Pete and Baltimore and Brazil. One exception seems to be the Iowa oval where Indycar receives good support. Indycar is bad off but there are some bright spots – St. Pete, Iowa, Alabama, new chassis and manufacturers. It’s not great but it’s better than what it was a few years ago. Randy Bernard seems to know what he’s doing and hopefully they will keep him as CEO of Indycar.
What else can Indycar do? If the American public does not find open wheel oval racing exciting, what can they do except race on more street courses?
Do I like it? Nope. I want to see more road courses but wishing and getting are two different things.
I will say the Baltimore race looked very nice. I turned it on and the crowd on the starting grid made it look like an F1 broadcast. All reports are very positive about the whole event.
Derick,
Just because they have not worked, does not mean that they cannot work. In fact, they have worked outside the United States, if you Google the phrase Maroubra Speedway, you will learn some things you did not know.
Joe,
It’s true, maybe all the Chinese just wanted to raise the profile of Shanghai (and China) and they probably have. To be honest, as a F1 fan, it hasn’t convinced me to go watch a race or visit there. Other places (like Singapore and Montreal) definitely have. Going by the abysmal attendance, not many other fans have been convinced either. So, if the hope was to attract more people (i.e. motorsport fans) to Shanghai, it hasn’t worked.
On the other hand, the US hasn’t succeeded in having a permanent race in the last 3 decades either, despite an existing fan base. So ovals might work in China like they work in the US, but it remains to be seen. If the Chinese are still not looking at actually attracting people to the race itself, they have already succeeded, since I had never head of Qingdao before (that probably goes for many a motorsport fan). However, nothing is going to convince me to attend a race at an oval 🙂
Well I just hope they can build it safely. Building a track where cars will do 200mph is not a subject to be taken lightly.
Having been to China a couple of times and seeing the quality of their workmanship (although admitedly I haven’t seen the track at Shanghai, whats the build quality like there Joe?) I would fear for the safety of the drivers and the crowd.
Didn’t they drop ticket prices this year for the Chinese GP and have a big improvement in the crowd? People will go to events if they are not over priced, thats probably F1’s biggest problem right now.
Joe,
I dont think the Grand Prix has raised the profile of Shanghai . Shanghai is doing a pretty good job of raising the level on its own accord without the F1 race.
Best export USA has to China is KFC and McDonalds .
Greetings from Xi’an.
Peter G,
The Chinese think that.
Simon G the situation for the teams is horrible. In theory each of the three 2012 engine suppliers has a right to supply 9 cars, so in the unlikely event that Lotus turn up with a rebadged Judd engine, they will be able to effectively force teams to take it. Honda and Chevy both have their full complement of engines, so are not obliged to offer more if they don’t want to.
It should also be pointed out that although the new car has started chassis testing, it contains a current spec normally aspirated Honda engine. Testing of the engines does not begin until 2012 chassis are handed to the engine manufacturers in October.
I think Lotus will fall away and Honda and Chevy will end up supplying the other teams, but the lack of certainty for the smaller teams’ engine supplies is affecting their ability to raise finance.
As for the guy who still thinks IndyCar is an all oval all american series, he’s clearly one of the people behind the low viewing figures (ie he hasn’t been watching!)
I am positive about IndyCar, and I hope that the 2011 Baltimore Grand Prix will be looked back on as marking the turning point in IndyCar’s fortunes.
I should have made clear – lack of certainty about the engines is affecting the smaller teams’ ability to raise sponsorship for 2012, which will need to finance purchase of entirely new chassis, engines and spares.
The smaller teams have been using second hand spares and chassis for some time, and it’s been possible to survive. Now with everything new, they face a severe capital outlay for new equipment.
On an unrelated note, why don’t IndyCar offer teams a (behind the scenes) cash bonus for fielding north american drivers? As a European I don’t mind the high number of overseas drivers, but I know it hurts IndyCar’s popularity.
Joe
One is honoured to be considered elevated to the semi-conscious!
rpaco.
Whatever turns you on…
“Danica Patrick has helped keep up interest but she is now moving to NASCAR fulltime in 2012 and the open-wheeler series is looking for new tricks to catch the attention of US race fans.”
This seems to suggest that Danica is some sort of key to the IndyCar success and her loss will be some sort of massive blow.
Really?
I see your point Joe, and don’t want to get into a political argument especially if it’s ground already covered here, but the Chinese people ARE repressed by their government. Simple human rights to public assembly and petition are a big deal, not to be snuffed at.
“On an unrelated note, why don’t IndyCar offer teams a (behind the scenes) cash bonus for fielding north american drivers? As a European I don’t mind the high number of overseas drivers, but I know it hurts IndyCar’s popularity.”
@Chris D,
Randy Bernard has stated that he will not give hand out to any drivers regardless of their nationality – he was quite adamant about drivers making their own way.
“This seems to suggest that Danica is some sort of key to the IndyCar success and her loss will be some sort of massive blow.
Really?”
@AC,
Danica brought a huge boost in casual viewership in her early years (2005-’08) and when she goes, a good deal of that may go away.
When they do driver introductions at each race, Danica gets the biggest cheers by a country mile from the crowds. Her pull will indeed be a dent – on the other hand, Danica’s leaving IndyCar may also help the series grow other names into marketable ventures.
How about a giant Chinese bowl with a 100 foot wide track and cars on the high line riding around stuck to the wall.
@GP and his comments much earlier in this thread: Totally agree. While I have a lot of respect for many of the IndyCar teams and drivers I find most of this series totally unwatchable. I can’t get excited about the ovals and the various “street” races are literally comical, as you suggested. When they do happen to go to a real racetrack like Road America or Laguna Seca it’s great fun, but that is all too rare. I understand the financial and marketing reasons why the promoters like them, but as a race fan I will never buy tickets again for a street race or watch one on TV with the exception of Montreal (which for all practical purposes mimics a real track) and Monaco. Once you have seen good open wheel racing on a real racetrack with fast sweeping turns, elevation changes, and run-off areas (where one little mistake doesn’t ruin your race), the street races are simply ridiculous.
They can race anywhere in the world and it won’t raise the attention level of fans here in the states, as long as they relegate themselves to a broadcaster like Versus, and no marketing to speak of.
Don Quixote wouldn’t tilt at this windmill.
I’d love to see a huge 500,000 seater oval but it would only have the theater and the drama if it was packed full of people. Perhaps the Chinese authorities could issue free tickets to people as they did in the Olympics to get the place filled up.
Joe, Do you think this is the start of Indy car trying to go global or is this just going to be as a replacement for the annual trip to Japan? As a few people have already touched upon, I’d love to see Indycar try a European race again. It’s such a shame that we have a track such as Rockingham being so under used.
@GeorgeK,
IndyCar ended up on VersusTV (soon to be NBC Sports Network) because they had no choice. When Tony George signed that deal, it was a case of Versus or next-to-nothing.
“Indy cars don’t race on ovals in the rain” both European ovals have infield courses so take the street aero as well and one extra practice session on road course. Definately racing what ever happens.
Mind you I think that if America wants to have a series that is attractive outside USA they should lookmagain at Can Am….
@Leigh,
Indycar fans are well aware of how we wound up on Versus. My ultimate point is they (Indycar) need to raise their game at home as opposed to following F1’s model of more and more far eastern venues. F1 has a solid home (European) fan base and can risk more remote race sites.
Indycar needs to market at home before zooming abroad.
Thanks for the reaction!
I was wondering what exactly was meant by “the world’s biggest motorsport oval.” Biggest in terms of seating?, which the discussion seems to focus on, or in terms of track size. Although not a “motorsport oval,” the banked oval test track at Ohio’s Transportation Research Center (trcpg.com) is 7.5 mi (12+km) around, and claims to have a 140 mph neutral corning speed (which I surmise means hands-off-the-wheel). Is that the nature of what we’ll be looking at in China?
Nardo in Italy is 7.8 miles long.
@GeorgeK,
I’ve been saying all along that IndyCar needs to fix its problems at before it starts venturing outward.
@GeorgeK,
I believe Indycar needs to pursue growth wherever it’s viable. If foreign lands will pay a good fee, how can that hurt?, especially for a series on life-support. It’s my impression that the sporting world outside the USA hasn’t drunk the NASCAR Kool Aid, still wants to know who wins the Indy 500 and could barely care less who wins at Daytona. Long Beach ditched F1 for CART because of cost, and they’re happy to this day. Why couldn’t that could happen elsewhere again? Indycar at Turkey, why not? Any expansion should help, and income therefrom can be invested in US promotion.
On the global stage, CART was worrying F1 before the disaster. Joe, maybe you can confirm this: I’d read that before 1995 Bernie’s sanctioning terms included a 30% surcharge against a track if it hosted a CART race. If so, it speaks volumes, doesn’t it.
Anthony (@PTaruffi),
I was thinking on similar lines. More European tracks could embrace IndyCar. With greater manufacturer interest in the series, IndyCar can bring American open-wheel racing back to its glory days. I think IndyCar should have serious globalisation plans if it really wishes to grow and increase in stature. With ludicrous hosting fees for F1 races, IndyCar is the closest high profile single-seater series that can potentially challenge F1.
Leigh O’Gorman, PT,
Seems to me, admitted non-expert, that if an enterprise needs money, and has a product that isn’t doing well domestically, but knows that there’s interest in it abroad AS IS, and willingness abroad to pay good money for it AS IS, that begs for a certain business practice, called … exporting! It’s about the money, which can buy survival-time, and resources to fix the domestic problem.
CART exported. CART was doing superbly well before the split. The business formula worked.
But then, Indycar could find itself in a serious war with F1 in addition to the one with NASCAR. Whew!
@Anthony (@PTaruffi)
You’re right in one sense, but one of IndyCar assets is its diversity of circuit type, which means growing its oval portfolio.
Realistically, any attempt to grow IndyCar internationally at this point may be something of a mistake – rival international single seater championships rarely fare well against the behemoth that is Formula 1 (see the histories and current issues of AFX Aurora, A1GP and Superleague for example).
One thing that does work in IndyCar’s favour is it has some fine drivers. Any championship that can boast the likes of Dario Franchitti, Will Power, Scott Dixon, et al… has a fine basis with which to work, but the series does need to work on its US drivers.
IndyCar has been hurt a lot by an aimless feeder category that has inadvertently bolstered the NASCAR ranks somewhat, but the series is also guilty of letting too many marketplace names fall through its fingers.
There are a few coming through the ranks, but whether they can truly become “names” in the US without defecting to NASCAR remains to be seen.
We must remember that the foundations of this series lies with the Indy 500 – in much the same way Formula 1 would be unimaginable without Britain, Monaco or Monza – and as such, it needs to be nurtured from just such a centre point.
Anthony (PTaruffi)
F1 really needs some stiff competition. That’s the only way Bernie and FOTA will begin to seriously think more about the fans. We need a strong international single seater series to rival F1. It needs to happen. It can begin with IndyCar and some of the current F1 hosting cities getting together such as Shanghai, Istanbul, New Delhi (Greater Noida), Spa (would love to see IndyCars race at Spa), etc. Street races at some of these urban locales could be the best way to instantly generate a fan base.
Leigh O’Gorman, PT,
Great points, but I’m still looking just at the basics: generate some needed dough. I don’t think many in the USA would care whether Indycar races abroad. Indycar needs money, has a product, Chinese and other people abroad will buy it; ergo, exportation and income opportunity. Benefits beyond that are gravy. I’m not advocating at the EXPENSE of domestic development, or ovals. But I still say exportation won’t hurt, and I believe it would help the bottom line.