Sebastian Vettel was under contract to Red Bull Racing until the end of 2014. His contract was believed to be a complicated one with points bonuses to augment a salary and lock-in clauses which meant that he had to stay for the next season if the team achieved a certain level of performance in a year. His salary is believed to have gone from $11m in 2011 to $16.5m by 2014. What is interesting about the news from Red Bull Racing is that the extension is only for one year, which means that it is unlikely that there are the same long-term elements in the deal. It is fairly clear that by agreeing to a one year deal Vettel is positioning himself to be available for Ferrari if Fernando Alonso does not extend his deal; or to go to Mercedes when Lewis Hamilton’s contract is up.
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joeblogsf1 
Joe:
The marketing angle aside does Red Bull view the Toro Rosso driver development experiment as a flop as it appears Raikonnen is likely to take Webber’s seat with none of the current or former Toro Rosso drivers regarded as capable of replacing Webber.
Let us wait and see if that happens. I doubt it.
Where do you think Kimi will drive in 2014 and 2015?
Are your bets on Webber staying? Or him going elsewhere?
I tend to doubt he’d go to Ferrari, as I think they make some difficult cars to drive and his experience with exhaust blown diffusers leads me to believe he’d fare about as well as Fisi did…
He pops up a bit in Porsche’s advertising and does have a 911 GT2 RS… and it may not have cost him much. Then again, Porsche did have a terse reply when asked about him joining the team in 2014.
What about Rosberg going to Ferrari, and Webber reuniting with Mercedes? He might have a few friends in the car company, but I guess that may translate to the same pull in Team Brackley as a relationship with Lotus people would in Team Enstone. Still, might be a possibility.
So what do you think? Red Bull again? Ferrari? Porsche? Mercedes?
I don’t know.
The Australian motoring press did an interview with Webber about a year or two ago and in it Mark said he paid full price for this Porsche.
Elsewhere. He’s got rid of his pub and burned several bridges at RB this year. He’s also not doing especially well with them this season, Vettel’s got double his points and three wins to Webber’s none!
I’d bet he’s ready to fly off elsewhere which means either Ferrari (seeya Massa) or a DTM/Sportscar type career shift.
Because they don’t want to hire Kimi, or because Kimi doesn’t want to join them? (Or, because Vettel will veto it?)
The third option would decide it I think
interesting. This is always the reason that I thought Kimi was in all probability a nonstarter anyway at RB given that Mark seems to get him hot under the collar already at times
Does Vettel really have that power Joe? Surely if you were in Horner or Mateschitz’s position, hiring Kimi would be logical for two reasons. Firstly, he will almost certainly score more points than a Vergne/Ricciardo and help win them constructors. Secondly it would be a good way of reminding Vettel that the team calls the shots. What do you think?
Hmmm
Certainly with RB only having VET for 1 more year, they really ought to be getting a number one lined up. RAI, ALO or HAM are the only real number ones around.
HAM is presumably tied for a while. That leaves two choices. A swap of VET and ALO? I don’t see it myself.
Given recent events at Mercedes, one has to query HAM in that list, as opposed to ROS…
If you query Ham in that list, you should also query Rai in the list too. Ham vs Ros in Quali is 4 : 3 in Ham’s favor. In the Race is 5 : 2 in Ham’s favor. In the points is 77 : 57 in Ham’s favor. Hamilton is just 7 races in a season of 19 races in a new team against a driver of Ros’ quality yet you are still hating. After all Grosjean out qualified Kim at Lotus in Kimi’s first season. Does that make Kimi a lesser driver, NO. That is called getting familiar with a new team. Please keep your judgement after the season.
But if challenging Vettel’s standing at Red Bull makes him leave, can Kimi in a Red Bull beat Vettel in a Ferrari? That’s the scenario RBR might have to contend with.
“Firstly, he will almost certainly score more points than a Vergne/Ricciardo and help win them constructors.”
You could put a chimp in the Red Bull and I think it would still score a lot of points, if things continue as they are of course.
Funny how folks think a chimp/monkey could score points in a good car.
Mid-seventies Ferrari were getting the same treatment, their 312T series of cars were winning a lot of races driven by Niki Lauda and Clay Regazzoni.
Come the non-championship Race of Champions at Brands Hatch one year, 197?, Ferrari entered a car for Giancarlo Martini, a reasonable Formula 2 driver at the time but not a championship contender.
Poor chap put it up on the bank at the approach to Druids, on the warm-up lap.
Martin
Horner calls the shots…? yeah right. Vettel be reminded…? ditto
And there was me thinking it was Dr Helmut Marko running the show at RBR!
I wonder if Vergne’s 6th place in Canada (highest since Vettel?) will impress the RB setup. Vergne seems very adept in mixed conditions, and ran a good solid race in Montreal to keep 6th after a good qualifying. I have a feeling he will do very well under the 2014 formula, set to be a more thinking driver’s game; Ricciardo I feel is more of a flat out and 100% pace kind of driver and this formula has been disappearing since 2010. It remains to be seen how Felix da Costa fares next year, considering he also will have had no experience of the Pirelli tyres.
So, if Webber stays for one more year (as I feel he may now do, unless he doesn’t fancy himself under the new formula), Vergne is well placed to move up to RB given a successful 2014 and 3 years experience. There’s always the Kimi option too for next year if they do not want to promote a youngster too quickly to an empty seat. And Ricciardo is always more of a PR boost given his permanent smile, something Red Bull may need after 4.5 years of pretty much dominating the sport exposure-wise.
Slight off/topic, Joe, but are you still in Montreal? There’s rumours Brawn is doing a 3 day test for Magnetti Marelli. Current car + drivers.
No I am not in Montreal
Hahaha.
Nicely done.
That would be hilarious!
I heard the next test with the current car will be with Brembo!
Another internet rumour? Or is this tongue in cheek? They started tearing down the track right after the race. A friend of mine tried to bike there yesterday but couldn’t because of all the construction work.
It’s interesting that his deal is short-term, but does anybody have a long-term deal in F1 anymore? Hamilton’s 3 year deal with Mercedes seems like an eternity in today’s motorsports world.
Does Vettel have a manager? If I remember right, I thought he was one of the few drivers who doesn’t have someone to handle his contract affairs for him.
That is my understanding as well. Vettel manages himself.
I too think it is strange the extension is only for one year but I am not sure that is entirely Vettel’s choice. Sooner or later Red Bull will sell up and just be a sponsor or do something else altogether. Maybe that is at the end of 2015 and maybe that suits Vettel just fine.
I think we’ll see Mercedes exit the sport as a ‘team’ (not engine supplier) before we see Red Bull leave. Lets not forget how long they’ve invested in motorsport, and the F1 team is the absolute jewel in the crown of that. You’ll see them pull out their sponsorship/teams of all manner of motorsport before they leave F1.
Maybe you are right on Mercedes depending on this whole testing saga outcome. But you are not on reasons for Red Bull to be in F1. If you look at their brand values, it is firmly focused on fun, young, action, daring and winning. So the only thing F1 does for their brand is its big exposure and you can promote winning something. The minute they stop winning (which is why they invested for as long as they have) it makes little sense from a brand perspective.
Sorry to be picky, but who is “they” in you comments, it’s not clear whether you are referring to Red Bull or Mercedes?
I’m more inclined to see it this way, though it has to be said that unless RBR is haemorrhaging cash in an unpredecented fashion, a new owner won’t necessarily mean an end to their stay at the top. That said, it might be a deliberate planning strategy from RBR and/or Vettel himself to plan precisely two years into the future and no more. Not an unreasonable idea.
Joe, does Adriand Newey’s contract have an expiry date?
I wonder, do the point bonuses apply when you ignore team orders and overtake a teammate?
I would say yes. If you go on to win. No, if you crash out or fail to take the win. That’s little comfort for the team mate. That’s hell for the team mate. He will be right to complain. But that’s F1.
I’m curious Joe – why is McLaren not on the possible list?
Was about to ask the same question… Seems to me they are somewhere in-between the old and the new at the moment.
Joe, could this be due to thecurrent cloud over Adrian Newey’s future? With that and the general rule changes are there any chance Red Bull may faulter. Please!
And what about McLaren? Can be possible?
Joe,
You look at drivers over the years, and what they like to say or be remember by, is the number of race win’s, the number of pole positions, and the number of fastest laps, and if there really lucky how many Championships’ they have won.
For Weber right now, he is in a car that on his day, can deliver, and win races. There aren’t that many cars which can claim to do that right now. Ferrari is one, Lotus maybe, and maybe Mercedes. Who therefore knows what is going to happen next year? A lot of people though that McLaren would be there or there about, given that they won the last race, last season, yet where are they right now – nowhere, with a potential dog of a car.
As Webber is a mature driver, smart guy, that doesn’t need anyone fighting his corner, I think he will stay at Red Bull, given that they do have a car which can challenge for a race win, and be up there fighting for podiums’.
One thing I always wonder, is why did, for example, Benetton buy a F1 racing team, when it is not anywhere near what their core business is? The same with Red Bull, they are a drinks company, not even an engineering company who builds their own plants, so again away from their core business. Surely it would be better capital spent on been a title sponsor on a winning team, where they can spend a lot more on marketing and developing new markets for their drinks than on a race team, without any real spin offs that they can use, like say Williams and McLaren, with their other revenue streams.
So in Mark Webbers case, say 20 years from now, when one looks back, and he won these races with a team called Red Bull, will it still be around, or maybe not even known to the general public, where as a pure racing team, like Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Mercedes, they hopefully will be, and his win’s would or could carry more weight. Just a though….
why did, for example, Benetton buy a F1 racing team, when it is not anywhere near what their core business is?
Brand value and normally a bit of self interest on the part of the funder. If I remember correctly, Rocco Benneton loved a bit of F1.
The Benettons used the sport. Luciano was the one with most interest but they did not attend that often. Rocco never seemed interested.
Joe
Didn’t the Family tell Luciano to spend less time on the team because pullover sales were suffering?
Is that what brought FB into the sport, looking after the Family’s F1 interests?
Martin
One day that story will be told.
Fascinating reply Joe. Am I young enough (63) to still be around when the day comes?
Martin
Depends on FB. Dead men don’t sue.
I do hope you’re planning to write a book about all these things when (sadly) you don’t want to do this F1 thing any more
Why does the U.S. Postal Service sponsor a bicycle racing team?
You may have answered your own question there; USPS does not sponsor a cycling team (stopped in 2004 when the Discovery Channel became the main sponsor).
Because they can deliver your syringes faster than any courrier service.
“You look at drivers over the years,”
Good heavens no! You must only ever consider a drivers last race, his last result or last incident. The whole future of all the teams may be predicted from it. Anything longer than a week ago is irrelevant!
This is obviously not aimed at Keith who made some sensible points, but at the gutter instant sensation seeking lot who seem to think that one decent drive will cause amnesia about a driver’s or team’s previous record. The slightest hint of an improvement triggers in their minds, a leap across a chasm, the next Senna, or now on to Ferrari! Perhaps a single race where a team got it right could mean the championship next year! No it was a single step.
I am unfortunately reminded of Jasper Carrot’s live on-stage encounter with several masked gunmen “You’re *** readers aren’t you?” “How do you know?” “You’re holding the guns the wrong way round!”
It was actualy “You’ve sawn the wrong end off your shotgun”, that said I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment above rpaco 🙂
Age and brain failure are my excuse; just hope I live long enough to read the stories that need to be told. Preferably in a book and not on a bloody sheet of glass. Though admittedly, I am reading Pole to pole on my laptop, but it’s a decent size.
I’m disappointed in you! I love books more than computer screens but as Joe’s GP reports are on line I suffer the medium long enough to read it ‘cover to cover’ – you see, it’s not really the same is it?
Why did Benetton buy an F1 team, why have Red Bull – why not be title sponsors?
Who was the title sponsor of Benetton in 1994 and 1995 when they won championships with Schumacher? (Mild Seven) – the title sponsor is lost in history. But the team is remembered in statistics, in books, on websites… the name will appear in F1 literature for a very long time to come.
Just like Red Bull – who will remember that Infiniti was the title sponsor in 2013, in 20, 30 or 40 years? But Red Bull’s name will be beside the championship winners of 2010, 2011, 2012…
“… the title sponsor is lost in history.”
That’s a fairly massive generalisation Phil. Depends on the actions/logos/colour scheme of the sponsor.
Who can forget Marlboro McLaren, JPS Lotus, Saudia Williams?
Martin
True but some spnsors do leave lasting impressions. JPS is regarded as iconic and it even made a comeback 30 years on. Surely the Red and White of Mclaren in the 1980s and 90s will forever be associated with the legend of Senna.
Phil C,
If you look at or study anything to do with Brands, you will realise that Brands come and go. With Red Bull been the brand name of a drink, where will it be in say 20 years? I do know they are losing market share in the UK, from a market that they actually created in the beginning. Our High Streets in the UK use to have Benetton retail outlets, they seem to have disappeared. I am aware that Coke has been around for more than 100 years, but that is more an exception to the rules. I personally don’t think that Red Bull will be in Motor Racing to the current level that they are now, in say 5 years times.
I can see in 20 or 30 years, that Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes will be around and people will be able to associate them to cars and racing. People could wonder what Benetton was and who or what was Red Bull.
In the UK, we use to have a lot of marketing spend on TV with Red Bull and it was never with a racing car, always something to do with their adventurist – extreme sports sponsorship. It was that sort of market that they aimed for. The people who did these sorts of sports and would refresh – drink their products.
I think that Webber will stay with Red Bull, given that he has 9 F1 wins under his belt, and Alan Jones has 12 F1 wins and Jack Brabham with 14 F1 wins. Drivers always want to measure themselves against their fellow country man, and it appears for a “good” life after racing, that these results are used to their advantage. Have you noticed that David Coulthard is introduced on BBC TV, as a former F1 driver with 13 wins to his credit? (Why do we have to be kept been told? – it is to bring some form of authority to the conversation – debate)
Americans do the same thing, only they build it up much more. I was there watching a business – TV program, and they introduce Jeff Gordon, who I knew had won a few races, but he was given the billing of over $100M in winnings, and 87 wins to date, plus co-owner of a car – team, (Can’t remember which one) A few years before that, I remember him for another reason, he was getting divorce, and it was all over the press – media while I was in America, but nothing about his racing or wins,
Not a bad basic salary , would love to know his bonus structure 🙂
plus 1
So – with Vettel’s absolute love for winning and maximising his statistics plus the lottery of trying to predict what engine / KERS (harvesting) / ERS package will be best he’s obviously not banking that the RBR / Renault package is going to be tops –
Plus – NOT that I dislike Jenson but he does seem to a bit tired this year ( Of course the car doesn’t flatter !!! ) and I believe his contract ends at the end of 2014 and Sergio is probably on 1 yr deals as well – so more doors open there ????
Jenson’s fantastic on his day but when the car’s not 100% he’s a terrible leader. He moans his head off and blames the team.
Seems to be an approach favoured by di resta this year too
He should grown a mustache and adopt a brummie accent…
Josh
The moustachioed one whined, whinged and moaned his way to a Driver’s Championship in 1992. The effect of that, unfortunately, has been that any driver attempting to explain a poor performance since that time has been labelled a whinger!
Martin
Oh dear! Does that have a familiar ring to it? I mean, that British drivers whinge a lot ?
Thinking back, James Hunt didn’t, nor Jim Clark, don’t remember Innes Ireland complaining but………John Watson did. (Do you remember his mechanics, instead of putting his proper name on the side of the cockpit, signwriting “John Whatswrong”)
I hope the rest of the world doesn’t see “our” drivers as miseries.
As a sports loving Australian, I am entitled to make the observation that English sportsmen in general have moaning in common.
Biggus
As a MOTOR sport loving Brit I am entitled to make the observation that Alan Jones was never slow to make his views known, especially if they were unfavourable toward someone or something.
Bloody good driver though.
Martin
Funny that you should mention that you are “entitled” to make that observation, when the usual Aussi sledging is going on in UK with the cricketers in UK at present & more extreme in the Rugby in the Lions tour in Oz.
It’s normally Australians who accuse Brits of having a sense of “entitlement”.
Good luck to your teams at home & abroad.
The flipside of that is “heart on his sleeve” rather than “relentless corporate automaton”. 2 way street, if you ask me.
Joe not that it’s relevant here but wouldn’t it be good for SAFETY to have a rule concerning the front wing that any vertical carbon fibre had to be (say) 70mm behind the leading horizontal surface – therefore front wings could only be damaged but wouldn’t cut the rear tyre of the car in front – Sounds like a SAFETY IMPROVEMENT to me and it improves the racing as it doesn’t hurt the Guy in front.
You mean the first 70mm would just be resin and paint? Flakes of this would be just as sharp, ok they may not be as big as if they contained CF matt or stranding.
I had always assumed, maybe wrongly, that it was the small shards that cut the tyres when they ran over them. The leading edges have a 5mm radius on them, ironically to avoid tyre damage if contact is made.
The regs say:
3.4.2 In order to prevent tyre damage to other cars, any bodywork outboard of the most inboard part of the bodywork used to define the area required by Article 3.7.5, and which is more than 450mm ahead of the front wheel centre line, must be at least 10mm thick (being the minimum distance when measured normal to the surface in any direction) with a 5mm radius applied to all extremities.
3.4.3 In order to avoid the spread of debris on the track following an accident, the outer skins of the front wing endplates and any turning vanes in the vicinity of the front wheels (and any similarly vulnerable bodywork parts in this area), must be made predominantly from materials which are included for the specific purpose of containing debris.
The FIA must be satisfied that all such parts are constructed in order to achieve the stated objective.
So 3.4.3 in particular seems to have been ignored by most teams. It would seem to require a completely different type of material to CF in order to conform. Something perhaps more like HDPE or “Tupperware” The stuff JCB roofs are made of, perhaps with kevlar netting moulded in for containment of debris.
Rpaco
“You mean the first 70mm would just be resin and paint?”
Perhaps RickeeBoy means that any vertical surface eg endplate of a front wing, should be behind the leading edge of the wing, the horiontal part of the wing that is.
I would go further and insist that the outer surface of the endplate, which would have maximum dimensions, should be flat with no winglets, turning vanes or holes disguised as slots.
The massive detail that goes into endplate design these days is totally useless and expensive I suspect.
Martin
Take the examples of cars running to,or near pace with damaged front wings this year.I forget which drivers,but it goes to show what a waste of budget all these variations on front wings ultimately are.
Last year in the second part of the season, Red Bull might have been a bit destabilized with the continuous news of the Vettel deal with Ferrari – calling it dirty tricks from competitors. Naturally not the only reason for a new deal to be agreed, but a good cut to the root for these rumours if the season goes to the wire once again (will it?)
Is it significant that Adrian Newey’s current deal runs until the end of 2014 and that the 2015 car could potentially be the last the Newey Red Bull (assuming Newey chooses not to continue).
Let’s hope so. Nothing against Adrian but with him moving on we’ll see just how good Red Bull are without him (although if Vettel goes as well we lose a ‘yardstick’). Anyway, time for a re-shuffle perhaps.
Joe, I guess that means we have at least another 2 possible years of RBR/Vettel dominating the sport. Not bad if he does a Schumacher and also wins the 2013/14/15 championships, although he’ll still be one shy of his mentors tally.
On the question of Webber that other readers have made; I can see him sticking around for another 2 years at most. He still has love for the sport and racing, although he sometimes feels like he isn’t getting the same opportunitiy and support as his younger team mate. But you can discount the bottom half of the field straight away. Webber is a driver that is paid therefore the likes of Williams, Force India etc (despite Webber’s experience) wont be interested in him. He will stick with RBR or a move to somewhere like Lotus if Kimi moves on.
Why would Mercedes want to replace Lewis Hamilton with Vettel?
The comment was a reflection of the timing, not the desire.
A question immediately springs into my mind. What deal does Adrian Newey currently have and has he been extended to 2015 too?
Vettel’s one year extention is indeed an interesting point. But I wonder how much this got to do with Vettel or the team itself…
Will there be two Red Bull teams in 2016? I seriously doubt that. Come 2016, we will have had two seasons under the new regulation scheme and ample time for Red Bull (i.e. Mateschitz) to have made a business decision one way or another.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team named ‘Arden’ on the grid. It wouldn’t surprise me in the least so see Vettel in a Ferrari, wearing an overall with Red Bull logo’s.
But then, everything is possible in the future…
Yes, with money
Re Arden GP — I still think it’s more likely that we’ll see Christian Horner as team principal at Caterham if and when Red Bull place him in the ejection seat.
I think there is an outstanding possibility that we will see Webber at another F1 team (and not the sister team) with Red Bull logo’s on his overalls. Such is the relationship between he and Mateschitz.
So a possible small red Bull on the prancing horse then?
Isn’t Newey at his best when there is a major technical regulation change? There’s always a chance that the Renault turbo could be a dud, but if I were Vettel, I’d stay as close to Newey as possible and continue to rack up championships.
“Isn’t Newey at his best when there is a major technical regulation change? ”
Not for at least the first year, no.
You only started watching F1 in 2008 then perhaps to witness the 2009 Red Bull, which I assume you are making your judgement on. Have a look at 1998 and Hakkinen.
Or the 1994 Williams. It’s a mixed record.
If the one year extension for 2015 is just a performance clause extension that has come into effect based on 2013 performance, then I’d guess that (at most) there could be one more automatic extension for 2016 based on 2014 performance.
Vettel wouldn’t want to be locked-in too far into the future if Red Bull’s performance starts to drop off, no matter what the rest of the driver’s market is doing. One year extensions to lock him in for no more than 2 more years, based on the current year’s performance, would make sense for a driver who’d be snapped up by most other top teams if the winning at Red Bull dried up, and makes sense for the team who want to lock their star driver in as far as possible without paying through the nose regardless of future performance.
Kimi to replace Button next season 🙂
Is that by pressing his “Jenson” button?
Nope, Kimi will only drive for a team with the potential to win…
And his favourite team mate too! given what he thinks about F1 corporateness (is that a word?) surely only for squillions
2005 -2015 A ten year plan to enter F1 win multiple WC and greatly increase brand awareness for the company and then pull out. Job done, I think.
If Newey would leave, yes, then maybe Red Bull will pull out in a few years. But why would they do that if Vettel (and Newey) keep on fighting for the title?
£16.5 million. That a lot less than Kimi was paid for 2010 not to drive.
£11 million in 2011 comes cheap when Kimi was paid £25 m basic 2007 to 2009.
Maybe Seb does need an agent.
If Webber wants to stay at Red Bull he will. But you can bet that Robertson will be camping out on RBR’s doorstep.
The RB business strategy is already starting to shift. If you look closely, they are no longer title sponsor and they are the main Renault team (therefore get cheap/free engines). RB can continue to have their sticker on the car and potentially steal the limelight from their other sponsors. All at minimal cost to the RB brand itself as all the other sponsors are paying the bills. This was the Branson strategy, but he never quite pulled it off in F1. So feasibily RB can remain in the sport for many years without it costing them much.
Talk of Branson brings to mind 2009. It makes me ask whether he actually invested any cash in the Brawn team? He seemed to know how to get terrific publicity for himself, and max exposure at the races Jens was winning.
But did Brawn get any hard cash from Mr B??
Comparing RB with Branson must be a joke.RB spend in F1 as sponor already 250 million $ before they bought a team and now I m sure it passed
1 billion.I m sure Virgin spend on Brawn maybe some Voucher and Cargo miles nothing more
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