The race promoters of Formula 1 are like no different to the teams. They have never been able to work together. They all have their own, very different, agendas. They are divided and conquered with such ease that it is laughable. Monaco used to have a little bit of power, but these days the Singapore GP is fast-becoming an event to challenge the Old School magic. If the circuits did ever find a way to work together the Formula One group would be in very deep trouble because (lest we forget) it is the people who own the land on which an activity takes place who own the TV rights. They can pass those rights on to others if they want to – as they all do with their F1 contracts – but if they could agree on anything they could get together and inform the Formula One group that they do not need its services and could do their own thing. The teams and the FIA would soon run to join that party… In that circumstance, the circuits would be able to harvest all the advertising signage, VIP hospitality, support races and many other rights that are currently signed away, they would be able to divide up the gate and the TV revenues between them AND they would not have to pay race fees, which would make make their races very profitable. If they have failed for the last 40 years to get together and evict the middle man, it is hardly likely that they will all miraculously become glued together because of noise and bully the FIA into moving away from the new engine formula.
That is fanciful at best, daft in any other terms.
Ron Walker, who has long worked hand-in-glove with Bernie Ecclestone rather than fighting to get the circuits together, may be getting in the newspapers in Australia whingeing about the noise that F1 cars make, but he and his staff are just as responsible as the Formula One group, the FIA and the teams for completely failing to focus public attention on the key point of the weekend in Melbourne: the amazing machinery that is being introduced in F1 that will, in time, benefit all car owners across the world and Mankind in general. If all these parties were really switched on and attached to the planet, they would be banging that drum and getting money from the hundreds of big companies that wish to find a good way to show that they can associate with a real environmental cause, rather than settling for tokenism.
I would suggest that Walker does not have much of a case in a court of law (particularly not one in the Nanny State of Victoria) given the number of people who went through the gates of Albert Park last weekend. It did not look like the crowd was any smaller than it has been in the past. Walker can say that Formula One is in “breach of contract” but where is the evidence for that assertion? Can he quote the contract clause where it says that F1 will produce X decibels? Formula 1 is what the FIA wants it to be and Walker signed the contract to accept what they give him. If this means that he makes losses then surely it is he, rather than the sport that that has to answer to his government for wasting public money? The good news for Ron is that I doubt it will come to that. I believe that the people of Melbourne will still come to Albert Park, next year and for many years to come. There may even be more people because the noise of F1 today is not painful. I get the fact that some people like to have their toes curled by the noise of screaming cars, but a lot of people do not. The show is not worse, it is just a little different. And who is to say in a court of law that more people will not come to Albert Park next year. Perhaps even the Save Albert Park people will now start to turn up because the race no longer rattles their false teeth…
The latest twist to this story is from Bernie Ecclestone, who says that the lack of noise could lead to a drop in revenues and this will hurt the teams. I laughed out loud at that one. Some of the team owners are rather eccentric but not one of them (with perhaps one exception) is dumb enough to believe that one. They mighty even argue (if pushed) that the lack of engine noise is far less of a problem for their revenues than the sport having a bad image among the big global corporations because of the (unproven) suggestions that the CEO of the business has been involved in criminal activities and has not yet stood down? There is a lot more evidence to support this idea than there is to support Walker’s sound byte-grabbing noise stories. One could ask some of the sponsors who have departed the sport why they chose to do that? Or ask those who nearly came in why they decided against it. I suspect that some would say that in modern corporations it is normal to see a CEO resign when he is indicted on criminal charges, or that a sport that goes to dodgier and dodgier places (on the Transparency International list) is not really what they want. Missing sponsors are a lot more damaging than missing decibels. And if you challenge that idea, answer this: would CVC Capital Partners still be in the sport today if it had been able to go to the stock markets and rip some more money out of the guts of the sport with an IPO? Of course not. They would be gone and would, even now, be in the process of loading more and more debt on some other poor industry that was foolish enough to let them get a foot in the door.
There will come a time – sooner or later – when things will change and F1 will no longer have to kowtow to the suited vultures. I understand that it is their job to make money and not care how they do it, and for that F1 has only itself to blame, but that does not mean that I do not have a right to shout about what is wrong with it. F1 is my passion as well as my profession and I hate to see it being treated this way.
Formula 1 is a magic thing and a few missing decibels will not change that.
A little less padding in a ballet dancer’s tights does not stop the ladies liking ballet, does it?
joeblogsf1 
Joe, great piece of information again. This article raised a question, Is there a relation between Bernie Ecclestone still being in charge and McLaren not having signed a new sponsor yet?
Who’s the “one exception” Joe? I’m going down a list of the team principals now: it’s not Christian, Ron or Toto. Who do you classify as a team principal – Domenicali or di Montezemolo? If Briatore were still around, would it be 2 exceptions?
No comment.
Hahaha! Having seen Mr Jordan on the beeb, it’s a small wonder he could ever have run a chimps tea party, never mind an F1 team. Talking of which, why would sponsors pay huge sums to be advertised on cars, which can now only be seen live by a few people on pay TV? The people who run multinational companies are generally not fools with their money, unlike some of the team owners.
I think Eddie is a lot sharper than his TV “personality” gives away. Self-evidently he was able to create from virtually nothing and run a successful Formula One team, not something that an idiot can do. What Eddie and the guys at Jordan did was remarkable and in retrospect has become even more so. You don’t have to like the guy but you have to respect all that he has done. Yes he does look like a glove puppet on TV and his personality is not everyone’s cup of tea but don’t let that kid you into thinking he’s an idiot.
Far from it…
An Indian one….
VJ made a complaint on Sky – so I’d say him
Gerard Lopez, obviously (but Joe is a little late to that party)
I’m not saying
Love that last sentence 🙂
I enjoyed hearing the tires squealing from the pit stop and being able to hear what was said on the in car radios all because the cars aren’t quite as deafening as they have been.
I’m guessing the one team principal that doesn’t like the new sound is because it no longer drowns out all the creditors chasing him?
cmcgoo >>I’m guessing the one team principal that doesn’t like the new sound is because it no longer drowns out all the creditors chasing him?<<
I am guessing you are correct as he was the only team principle that was seen to complain about the sound. Joes reporting of his business would suggest he may not have the greatest respect for him as a person.
Joe,
what do you think the chances are that FOM will fix the sound for the viewers at home?
Should be easy enough to implement a proper sound mix, but will it happen with the current people in charge?
proesterchen<>
I think that the world feed sound track was outstanding, listened in surround sound, heard every pop bang and whistle. Don’t be cheap, get a good sound system or a pair of headphones and enjoy what FOM are pushing out!
Joe,
Ron Walker said… “We pay for a product, we’ve got contracts in place, we are looking at those very, very seriously because we reckon there has probably been some breaches.”
Probably I think reads Bernie wants me to winge about this to get my contract renewed on favorable terms. Walke has no grounds and it is for the headlines. In the end Bernie wants any discussion that is NOT about Germany and that is not a Basil Fawltey “don’t mention the war”! The weekend must have been a huge disappointment for Bernie, it was a success so complaining about noise is only going to be effective for a few more races before he starts to look like a luddite that CVC wants to pitch overboard sooner rather than latter. Calling your own product crap is not a long term business plan. Rather it is a good way to be shown the door by the board.
Joe has in the past branded me a luddite because I don’t get Formula E. Still don’t. I think it will fail. However I have to say that the mix of technologies that is now F1, I do get, I think it is very relevant for the future. Always did do from when it was proposed. McLaren already has bits of hybrid tech in the new road cars, same Ferrari and Porsche. So it is not a stretch for them to get more F1 like. But how long till Renault does the same in its high end road cars? Soon for sure. They will tap the marketing potential from F1 or it is all a waste to be in the show. And watch it appear in other mundane things like electrical generators. And with lower noise the chances for more street races in F1 increases (a bit) and the show will be a lot better than formula E!
Given the tightness of Horner with Bernie I also have to wonder if this blatant push back on the FIA is not to divert attention away from Germany (Said it again, but I think I got a way with it Polly). Horner has not a leg to stand on. If the fuel flow gauges are complete crap the rules are the rules and the team agreed to be bound by them by entering F1! The FIA needs only to show them that document and say “upheld”! Horner keeps it up he may well face a bringing the sport into disrepute charge as well. Notice the other team bosses going the other direction on this! Horner may well find himself in a very lonely place soon. Ferrari are way to smart to look to close to Bernie now. In fact I suspect they will engineer a show of being against him soon. Just in time for Germany (whoops said it again!)
I don’t think Formula E is going to work. The industry has shifted away from EVs to hybrids and Formula E has the added drawback of the daft car-swapping idea, which highlights the weakness of EVs. Why would electric companies want to support that?
EVs will work when you can get 500km out of a single charge.
Battery tech is the key – and it is improving so I am told.
I used to think the noise mattered but to be frank we’re two generations in the future of when F1 engines sounded GREAT.
The V6s sounded fine. In fact I stopped noticing the noise and ugly cars half way through qualifying.
Me too
I seem to recall being tweaked by you for negativity some time back. You’ve made a quantum leap there Joe. We seem to agree completely now 🙂
I believe there’s definitely going to be a demand and a specific market for full-electric cars as city-goer, small, Smart-like vehicles perhaps. Electric cars don’t solve a thing, but what F-E can demonstrate precisely is that in such a micro-environment as a city how beneficial it is not to have fumes pouring into the street and how much better it is to have the noise level slightly down.
I think F-E, when marketing people do their jobs right can even give a boost to revitalize E-cars.
Yeah, right, because my sound system, which was exactly the same last November, has made this GP sound as exciting as a bunch of buses leaving their depot in the morning.
I did make the comparison again after the weekend had passed, parade lap(s) and first few laps, Melbourne 2014 vs. Interlagos 2013. The visuals are very comparable, clearly the cars move as much as ever and having them bunched up at the start is always exciting. Turn on the sound, though, and what was a swarm of hornets wizzing by last year turned into a bunch of bears rumbling by with their stomachs growling.
It’s just a fact of live that a turbo-muffled engine that is soft-limited to 10,5k RPM can not produce the same sound as an open 18k RPM V8. But maybe the sound guys can work their magic to at least make them seem like proper racecars for those of us at home.
There are more sounds on tv now that the engine noise isn’t drowning them out. It sounds like racing now; stressed out tires, pit noise, the crowd, radio communication all blending with the sound of cutting edge racing power.
Agreed, for me it was a better experience. I was watching via SkyGo and didn’t have full surround sound but I did like hearing the tyres and radio…
The new dashboard screens are good as well.
I dream of 1998 style graphics.
Hate the PS4 style graphics.
I have to admit I loved the sound of stressed out tyre slides and the crowd roars. It suddenly felt like it was in a ‘real’ place. As someone said, when you watch car programmes or see a general ‘power’ car you expect to hear too much power put into too little grip and tyre squeal. Yes the V8’s gave a fighter jet style bludgeon of sound but it wasn’t the be-all and end-all of the experience.
These new cars sound like a steampunk sci-fi film with their hisses, whistles, screams, screeches and rumbles.
In terms of the audio mix, yes the sound guys are using tv microphones and settings that filter out some of the bass – this is normal in motorsports, but they can certainly improve the sound at home by allowing in some of the lower-end frequencies again, which were notably cut to allow broadcast of the old treble piercing screech. The trackside pickup, even with headphones through a high quality amp are clearly compressed and high pass filtered. This isn’t to say the power units of ’14 aren’t much quieter but that seems like a question of the physics of energy recovery and efficiency. The bass rumble is actually very pleasant. And hearing the drivers and pitwall talk in more complex terms adds some strategic elements rather than them always screaming ‘BOX! BOX! BOX!’ and then a garbled static crunched reply. The pristine audio could actually end up being a strategic element in future. Perhaps drivers will come to rely on it more and radio failures will be even more devastating?
You need to adjust the EQ settings on your sound system to make it sound how you want. Using the same EQ settings for V8’s as those for the new V6’s is not how to compare considering the frequencies involved are vastly different.
I think you missed my point about recording and broadcast.
Yeah, I expect that the teams will be fitting stereos to the cars next, so the drivers can listen to good old Muddy Talker on Desert Island Discs, since the level of sound now is such that a car stereo in the cockpit ought to be heard easily….just another switch or two for Alonso & Kvyat to puzzle over…!
…or maybe the producer of the FOM feed could ask the sound man to turn up the dial a few dBs during the track action.
😉
Yes, I only saw the BBC mix, but the trackside sound mix was far too low. Whoever is in charge of these things… Turn it up!
Your usual insighful brilliance Mr Saward. Been following this sport for 57 years and the noise is way down on the list of reasons I love it. Any chance you could engineer a coup d’etat. By the way if it had rained in Melbourne on Sunday and crowds been a bit down, would Mr Walker have sued God or does he think he is “hand-in-glove” with him anyway?
Based on the fact that the noise may even attract more people through the gates, Formula E will be posting up ‘House Full’ signs at every single event!
Thanks for telling it like is is Joe, more power to you.
I wasn’t at Albert Park (from UK) but personally I am looking forward to a race weekend without the choice of either wearing ear defenders or ending up with a splitting headache. I spend all year watching the sport on the sofa on my own, when I go to a race weekend I want to socialise with friends and other fans,
One thing that nobody has mentioned in this noise debate, when various cars crossed the line on Saturday and Sunday it was great to hear the crowds cheers (and jeers) on the TV coverage, really added to the excitement and atmosphere.
Keep the cars as they are and mic up the crowd and let them add to the atmosphere like every other sport.
I am surprised that some are saying that they liked hearing the crowd shouting, cheering ( & booing! ), as they had not heard this before….if you had been at Brands Hatch for the 1986 Euro GP ( winner Mr N Mansell ) or 1987 British GP ( winner Mr N Mansell ) …etc…etc, you would have plainly heard the crowd, and it was also easy to hear them from recorded broadcasts that I listened to later on….I think it has usually been quite possible to hear the Tifosi in full flight, at San Marino & Monza as well…and the Germans have never been very silent at the Nurburgring or Hockenheimring….so hearing the crowd is not a new sensation.
However, it is plain from around the globe and race forums everywhere, that the new sound is certainly the biggest talking point, with fuel flow the next big issue, of the moment.
The current ( 4 time ) World Champion is a guy who is interested in the history of the sport, to some degree more than a lot of drivers, I see he has said that driving the new cars was like driving a vacuum cleaner….not a positive comment, and this from a great driver who loves the sport. I can hardly think of the pain this new era would cause to such as Senna!
With all due respect. Vettel’s car is like a hoover. It sucked all weekend long and sucking too much fuel by the sounds of it.
This Senna you speak of? Do you mean Bruno? As Ayrton seemed very happy driving a 1.5 litre V6 Turbo engined car with a fuel limit.
I’d gladly swap last years noise to watch the best drivers in the world having to wrestle a powerful car around the track. And that’s exactly what I got this weekend.
Damian,
1986 was the first GP I went to and the whole atmosphere and noise (human & automotive) got me hooked. But I’m sure the cars were quieter then than in some recent years.
I believe the “vacuum cleaner” comment came because he was asked by a journalist what household appliance he thought the new car sounded like as were many of the drivers so he wasn’t given much scope for a positive comparison 🙂
Martin, cmcgoo, guys…I think the comment Vettel made, which I saw reported, also said ” it doesn’t sound like a race car “…I agree with that totally. And, no, noise or sound transmission is not what the sport is all about, but it is a huge part of it. As you say, the 1500tc cars were a different sound, but still an awesome one. And the amount of power exceeded the grip levels, plus there were all the showers of sparks and flameouts from the exhaust.It was a spectacle. The FIA reduced that in 1988 to try and get everyone to go naturally aspirated again, but they forgot Honda who just built their engine to suit the restricted fuel regs and ran away with the titles. As for Ayrton, he was absolutely awesome in qualy sessions with both Renault & Honda power, there hasn’t been qualy like it since the demise of those rules. Senna was a flat our racer, not crusie and collect, so, no I doubt he would have approved of the new engines.
hahaha what you see is what you[they] get.
He didn’t say it was like driving a vacuum cleaner. He said cars passing sounded like vacuum cleaners.
I’m sure Vettel having a shit weekend had no bearing on the fact he was a bit of a grumpy bugger at the rule changes.
Fully agree with you Joe. The new engine rules are just what F1 needs…it’s just the nosecones that appear hideous but I’m getting used to it and I think that, for the first time since the 1970s, we are having cars that look so different from each other. That variety was missing and is back…another big positive.
And for some it’s further good news when Vettel is off the podium for once…provided it continues that way
Well said Joe,
After many years of loving a sport that most of my well meaning hippy mates hate (for valid reasons), I am very proud to see cars with some alternative power train tech looking as fast and as fun as they did over the race weekend.
This seems like old fart dinosaurs flexing their muscles while they can, but I don’t think it will make a difference. If we want to keep enjoying automotive racing in this fast changing environment we have to embrace these changes.
I think they sound pretty cool anyway, kind of spaceship like….
matt
Your comparison to a space ship had me laughing out loud. Thanks!
Seems Bernie was on a run today again, first with the almost hilarious comments about the noise and now “supporting RBR in their appeal” because the rules are a “joke” – http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/bernie-ecclestone-says-new-f1-3254692#.Uyf4l_T1hhk.twitter
Off course when he mentions that “Many of the public haven’t got the slightest idea about the engines” that seems to me to be pointing to his own Failure .
He himself as well as the FIA and also the teams (although some at least tried to give us videos like the ones from Mercedes, Renault and the excellent one from Red Bull) for not taking up the opportunity and telling the world how exciting it is to be working with unknowns and being surprised about what they find around each new corner.
When was the last time a team was genuinely surprised to even get past half distance like Lotus was, and even Rosberg seemed surprised about how great everything was working, asking whether there was anything he could do for reliability during the end phase. It shows what incredible work they have been doing in the last 18 months and what potential there still is to uncover.
I also think the TV companies did a bad job. How many times did we have to hear Brundle grumble about fuel limits, about unreliability about how complicated it was. Come one, this being complicated is what makes it attractive!
sorry but ‘complications’ only detract from the whole ‘raison d’etre’ of F1. in case you’ve forgotten F1 is [was] all about racing, something a lot of people have simply forgotten or choose to ignore. i have followed motorsport for over 60 years and i am an F1 tragic but now, it is has, for me, lost its way.
Nonsense. F1 has long been about showing off who’s got the most money to throw at it (Ferrari), it’s been about national prestige (Germany in the 40s, Italy with Ferrari, and others), it’s been about hanging out with celebs (any other reason for racing at Monaco?), it’s been about technology (pushing tech boundaries in all sorts of ways), advertising (every one remembers the classic JPS Lotuses and the Marlboro McLarens, and need I bring up Ferrari again?), and flashy lifestyles (James Hunt was just one of many playboy racers).
Racing for racings sake has only ever been a part of the deal.
With respect I disagree. There are literally hundreds of series where one can watch racing good and bad in all forms… if racing is the only thing that matters why doesn’t half the world watch junior karting? Formula 1 clearly has the greatest resources, scope and influence of all – so to peg it back to focus only on racing is short-sighted in the extreme…
Absolutely!
I think a majority of enthusiasts would agree with your sentiments. I am always saddened when I see on forums or blogs, the words ” I love F1 “, I’m a motorsport fan for 50 years or so, but I love pretty much every type of motorsport, and F1 could not exist without the other racing structures underpinning it. Including the awesome Marshals! The biggest threat to F1 is and has been the rise of the pseudo F1 Fan, the person who is only interested in F1. I’m not a footy fan, but I can see how footy enthusiasts get frustrated by the Premier League Fan, who only knows about that sector of the game, and can bore for England on the subject. I wish people would see that F1 is not an only child, and damage to it, goes far beyond the 19 races a year. The core of the sport has been damaged over the years by One Make Fomrulae and the proliferation of single seater championships, which have all dumbed down the sport, and ruptured the ladders to F1 that used to be so clear. A radical FIA Leadership is needed, and as Joe rightly says, the Suits need removing and the emphasis returned to SPORT! Of course it has to make money, we all know that motorsport can’t exist without a financial return, but even at the top of F1 there is now appearing a schism of financial failure, and in my humble view, it relies on Motor Manufacturers at it’s peril!! Would it really be so awful if an average F1 team could run 2 cars all year for a budget of say £75 million or even £50million, including wages, and driver salaries of £2-3 million a year tops?? Would a huge reduction of waste in F1 really make it less of a spectacle? There is an absurdity that people don’t seem to register, in a sport where engines cost £millions to save Co2 emissions, while teams glibly throw away a fractured front wing that maybe £100,000 or so. It makes no sense at all on any logical level. As you put it, it is only the racing fans want to see, if you want lifestyle, read OK magazine!
It’s been a technology race for almost it’s entire existence; I don’t recall a great deal of simplicity in the active suspension cars of 20-plus years ago.
No, F1 has always been about racing AND amazing technical innovation.
Not sure in what way F1 has become too complicated to understand. To me it still looks like (1) the lights go out, the cars all race away and (2) the first car to reach the chequered flag wins. Oh…and cars found to have raced in contravention to the rules still get thrown out.
The machinery has long been more complicated than most of us can do more than wonder at, but that is as it should be and provides for interesting reading when we are finally allowed to be introduced to it. F1 has always been as much an engineering race as a driver’s competition so the fact that some of the money is actually going into engines and not just the aero side of the sport this year is a breath of fresh air.
On track it was exciting to watch drivers trying to wrestle with all the new torque these machines have. For all the complaints about the prospect of fuel saving runs and coasting about, this was properly on the edge looking stuff.
The racing doesn’t look to different otherwise…except now the cars actually look different from each other and have a little character. Faster cars still lead, slower cars follow, and fast cars that somehow found themselves down the grid still charged their way up the field. This last bit, charging through the field, is something cars do a lot better job of now than they did a decade ago, something we should be crediting the rule makers for rather than lambasting them.
Watching a single driver win every race would be very uncomplicated… and very dull.
Give the technical genii in F1 some challenges to stretch them, they will rise to it, and all of us will probably benefit.
There I would have to disagree with you. It depends a lot on individual perspective. Yes, of course continuous domination can make some folk lose interest in any sport. However, surely one cannot blame the party doing the dominating, as it is up to the other competition to raise their game to compete against those doing the best job. Of more consideration is how highly one values perfection at work. One could note any painting by a great artist, and there would be few if any people who would say, my god that painting is boring! Or dull! If one can see a great driver at work, then one doesn’t mind that much if they are a dominant force, as long as the rules of the series, allow one to see the difference between driver A & driver B, and be able to appreciate the quality of one over the other. Jackie Stewart hardly ever caught my imagination, probably only on 8 or 9 of his 99 F1 races. But there was never any doubt in my mind that he was a truly great artist in a racecar. However Jochen Rindt and other guys like Pedro Rodriguez and Seppi Siffert were the ones who caught my imagination, because they looked exciting in an F1 car. Rindt may have been a tad quicker, but if I had wanted to put regular money on a race winner, JYS would have got my pennies!
At the end of the day, it is still about crossing the line first. At the end of the day, it IS still racing. Nobody has forgotten that, they just grow old and cynical.
Obviously none of you guys have watched motorsport for as long as I have. In the 1960’s, 1970’s it was very much simpler, only in the 1980’s did it get more complex when turbo cars got going properly, and then in the 1990’s after the short spell of active ride, it got simpler again. Now it is like a game for the PS4 generation, I don’t call that motorsport, and when Merc & Renault get fed up throwing money at it, only good old Ferrari ( and I hope by then Cosworth ) will be around to pick up the pieces! We are all entitled to an opinion in life, and to be disappointed by some things in life.
Good for you and your opinion, and your generation of stubborn bone-heads who tend to feel that things were far superior back then than they are now. Regardless of how you feel about this generation of motorsport, it is still motorsport, and your distaste for “PS4 Generation” racing does not validate your point. Racing is racing, and while the rules that govern it may change, the definition does not.
While you may long for bringing back the old school, my generation longs for your generation to expire from this earth so we can move forward with progress, change, and to not dwell in the past. And I hope that someday when I grow old and cynical, someone will remind me that I am old and cynical, and to lighten up and appreciate change. I hope my generation does not grow as narrow minded as yours. To each his own I suppose.
Sincerely,
The “PS4 Generation”
Well thanks for your inspired rebuttal of my views. In my humble opinion, before I shed my mortal coil, I would suggest you consider altering your Birth Certificate to a new name. Vladimer Putin Jnr could be appropriate. Moving on, has it occurred to you that Grand Prix ( to give it the correct definition ) racing existed prior to 2014, and was ruled by many various provisions? Some good, some bad. I have no real idea of the generation which spawned you, but I do know that if you check the correct media, you will find that, particularly in China, hundreds, and quite likely thousands, of people are dying in areas where the Rare Earth Minerals that provide the materials for the new electric battery packs, are being mined. These folk are dying from cancers caused by the processes involved in this mining, and so that you can enjoy feeling “Green”. Another point I’d like to make to you, is that in 50 years of actually going to motorsport events around the world, and not just watching on my laptop, I have, universally, found motorsport enthusiasts to be totally friendly and welcoming. It never matters to a true enthusiast, what point of view another has, all that matters is that we can all share an experience and have a great time. If you had cared to read what I wrote, and assimilated the content, you would have understood that my beef is simply that F1 ( along with other series ) has lost a great deal of appeal to a mass of spectators, because we love the teams, we are excited by the combat between the drivers, but the level of tech is not inviting to a lot of people. Someone once asked Gilles Villeneuve how F1 could be improved, he said big rear tyres, no aero and 5000cc engines….he wasn’t wrong. Now, I hope that all helped you to understand that everyone’s view is unique, and worth hearing…even yours.
By the way, if you check wiki you will find Gilles Villeneuve was an F1 driver from mid 1977, until his untimely demise in early 1982. There were also many other great racing drivers before Mr Vettel, if you buy a few motorsport books, you can find out about such as Roger Williamson, Tony Brise, Tom Pryce, in F1, not to mention Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney, Chris Amon…motorsport has been around for quite some time actually…….oh, and if you think Daniil Kvyat is really cool and young, look up a guy called Mike Thackwell, or further back, Ricardo Rodriguez.
I am totally friendly and welcoming, and very passionate about motorsport. I welcome other views, and you are certainly entitled to yours. However, when reading what you wrote, it is easy to interpret it as a general distaste for the younger generation, and the things we are interested in. Therefore, I will return your cynicism in kind.
“Obviously none of you guys have watched motorsport for as long as I have”
This is a statement of superiority in general, and an assumption. I am sure I have in fact not watched motorsport as long as you have, but there are others here that probably do enjoy what you don’t, so if you are going to state your opinion in such terms, you should be prepared to have others express their conflicting viewpoints.
“Now it is like a game for the PS4 generation, I don’t call that motorsport”
This is what I took issue with. Am I not watching motorsport? Am I not a motorsport fan because I like this racing? Is my generations taste in motorsport inferior to yours? Ultimately I appreciate and love your generations “motorsport”, and mine as well. I have witnessed change and always embrace it with open arms. It appears after a certain age, humans lose the ability to embrace change, which you make clear with your statements.
“By the way, if you check wiki you will find Gilles Villeneuve was an F1 driver from mid 1977, until his untimely demise in early 1982. There were also many other great racing drivers before Mr Vettel, if you buy a few motorsport books, you can find out about such as Roger Williamson, Tony Brise, Tom Pryce, in F1, not to mention Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney, Chris Amon…motorsport has been around for quite some time actually…….oh, and if you think Daniil Kvyat is really cool and young, look up a guy called Mike Thackwell, or further back, Ricardo Rodriguez.”
This statement really shows your true colors. I am 30 years old.I race karts, I am an amateur motorsport photographer, and I even organized the Audience with Joe in Austin. I got my degree in Mechanical Engineering after growing up inspired by Colin Chapman. I know about Tom Pryce, Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Dan Gurney (and the “gurney bubble”), Chris Amon, Gilles Villeneuve, Niki Lauda, James Hunt, Ayrton Senna, Juan Manuel Fangio, Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, etc…
You may have noticed that a lot of these folks were before my time, as I was born in 1984. What this means is that I am able to appreciate things that are not a part of my generation. Perhaps you can learn to do the same. Unless of course you really can’t teach an old dog new tricks.
Well you have an unusual way of showing your friendliness, I don’t think I have wished that someone I do not know in anyway should die, and I would say that your view was personal, and not to be interpreted as being that of ” your generation ” as you suggested. As you know nothing about me, you will be unaware that I have 5 kids, aged from 19 – 29, and I do know a fair bit about your age group as a result, especially given that my kids have mates of their own age, and we mix with all of them very happily.
My comment that some of the people posting had not been watching the sport for as long as I have, had nothing to do with a supposed superiority of my personal view, but all to do with a statement of fact. You support this statement yourself, by noting you were born in 1984, so it is unlikely that you will have recall of any motorsport from earlier than 1988-89 at least, possibly 1990-91. I merely noted that being older I had seen much simpler and imho better racing than we get these days. It’s a personal view, and was meant as that.
My comments on PS4, were to highlight that the current generation has an entirely differing approach to the sport. I prefer seeing that drivers and cars are being tested. I just don’t like what I see as the waste of driver simulators, why sit in a mock vehicle with a screen showing a track, when you could be burning some fuel and tyres doing the real thing? But then, I have seen it said that there is a computer game where one can become a person in a virtual world. The only people I ever knew when I was a kid, who lived in a virtual world, were there because of ingested stimulants that also never appealed to me!
Change is often belted out by politicians as being vital, but whenever they do it, it rarely seems to have a good effect on the rest of us. I say this because change of itself, does not necessarily mean that a benefit arises. It can be that change can be good, but it can also be bad and damaging. Just because it’s change, doesn’t mean that it cannot ever be other than good news.
I’m glad that you have a mech eng degree, that’s good for you, and I hope it is good for your employer ( unless he is 20yrs older than you, in which case you will be wishing him dead!….that was a joke by the way, we old people have a sense of humour you know ), and I’m glad that you appreciate the many fine drivers of the past. I could have mentioned more, such as Nuvolari who may have been the greatest ever, but I’m not old enough to have ever seen him race.It is however, arrogant of you to criticize me because only you, born in 1984, can appreciate things not of your generation, that’s rubbish.
Finally, you said that maybe you really can’t teach an old dog new tricks. I’ve always been able to teach my dogs new things all their lives, and I know this works with people too. What is much harder to do though, is to put a wise head on young shoulders!
It is always easy to misinterpret the thoughts of people behind keyboards. I don’t wish you are anyone to die; however, I am at that age where I notice the cynicism of the older generation, and it wears on me. Often times I make the mistake of hearing something I perceive as negative towards “my generation”, and I lump it together with all the cynicism I hear elsewhere, and generalize. I am sure that when I am 20 years older I will be just the same, and then I will have the perspective to understand why my gripe is interpreted as arrogance.
My apologies for getting personal and taking it to DEFCON-1. Obviously, I feel our generation will be happier once we can write our own destiny and make our own mistakes. This is the root of my “once your generation expires” comment. I oversimplified a broad idea, and made it sound like I want to annihilate anyone over the age of 50. This is not the case. It was more about “old farts don’t get it”.
I do agree that it is much more fun to go out and race than to spend time in a simulator… but I also know that the folks who sit behind a simulator all day have successfully bested practiced drivers on an actual track in actual cars.
Anyway, my apologies for taking offense to your original comment, and for my offensive comments thereafter. I am sure you are a great guy, and wise, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just don’t agree with it. 🙂
Hey Dale, a gracious response, thank you. As you say, it is very easy to misinterpret things that are said in blogs. It’s like texting, one can get into so much trouble from simple things being taken the wrong way! Anyhow, glad we can be friends on this matter, not enemies, as life is way too short to make many enemies.
And, old farts do get it you know, it’s just that you don’t get owt for nowt as Northerners say. So, hybrid tech comes at a cost, just the same as a wind turbine is not a ” renewable ” power source, it’s a not very efficient, old way of making power. Now, a windmill, that is a different thing, as there is a process attached, to make the most of the varying wind power. A modern Wind Turbine, makes a lot of money for city suits, and they in turn, try to make people think that anyone opposed to this money mill is a luddite, so that they can keep the money coming in. F1 is a bit the same for Bernie & Co.
My point on 2014 F1, is that it just isn’t necessary to have loads of tech, I prefer a simpler set up, with few restrictions on designers, as used to be in the days of Gordon Murray. In fact, I see he was highly critical of the way F1 is going. So, I wasn’t having a go at you or younger people, it’s just that there are always differing ways of doing things, and the newest is not always the best, nor is it the case that it hasn’t been tried before! I don’t know if you have ever gone to Goodwood for the Festival, but if you can, then go, as it is a real feast of amazing machinery, and the atmosphere is how it was when I first found motorsport. Hope you have a good time whatever you go to this year.
Really a great post. I support you 100%.
I also wonder which team boss is the dumb one 🙂
I personally would be more likely to go to F1 races with the current exhaust noise than the previous one, which certainly at Monaco, I found positively unpleasant. The last time I was there, I went from watching on a balcony just above the chicane, inside to watch the race on TV because the noise was giving me a headache. I do wonder however if the current TV sound technicians have their microphones tuned wrongly, being still set up to avoid overload and distortion on the previous generation of cars. The commentators seem very satisfied with the noise of the new cars but I don’t think it is coming over on TV broadcasts very well. I am not sure how much can be done to improve the noise. I would assume that the turbo blades on the exhaust side are chopping up the individual cylinder pulses and making them less distinct, so flaring the tip of the exit pipe would make little to no difference (megaphone effect). The upside is that I rather like hearing the tyres squeal.
Wilson
Walker and Westacott’s threats of legal application are clearly bluster- I cant see them going anywhere.
But I think you’ve argued yourself before that F1 is about providing entertainment first.
Since F1 has been in Melbourne the sound has been half of the entertainment factor, and I’m certainly not in the minority to find the sound extremely disappointing this year.
Without the sound, the sensation of speed was also reduced, it felt like they were visibly slower around the same corner while in actuality the corner speeds weren’t too far off.
I would think this years attendance is a bit irrelevant – its whether they come back next year that will reflect whether the crowd likes this year’s show.
While everyone must eventually accept change, this is a big one and will take time to get used to.
Maybe it will go down better in Europe where punters are used to BTCC/WTCC 4 cylinder race noises?
Fortunately qual was great (Largely due to the weather) and the race was ok . But it it had have been dry all weekend one wonders just how dull the event would have been.
It certainly was one of the most boring Fridays I can remember, when its usually electric as the sound of the F1 on track for the first time draws people to look up from miles around.
Hi Joe,
Formula 1 is certainly a ‘magic thing’, & I suspect always will be to you & I because we were hooked long ago. My concern however, having spent the weekend at various Albert Park vantage points, is that casual & potential F1 fans will be lost. Many from almost resentment that the product (by the vast majority of accounts) is less, while prices show no sign of heading in the same direction. The negativity towards the lack of sound & subsequent atmosphere was widespread. It was deafening. But hey, maybe they were whinging before – you just couldn’t hear them..
The greater good of the new power units both financially & socially can’t be questioned, but that instant impact the sport’s always had on spectators (crucially, first timers) has gone. I’ve no doubt many who in attended Melbourne will not be there in 2015.
The most simplistic appeal of any sport cannot be undersold. In F1, sound is more important than sheer speed because it hits you long before you see the car. Or did anyway. In Melbourne, they snuck up on you. It no longer felt like a sensory experience.
I was hooked when as a kid I heard the Ferrari V12 on approach to the circuit. When the V8 Supercars & even Porsche Carerra Cup is louder, I seriously doubt an 8-year old attending their first Grand Prix was walking away overwhelmed.
To appease it’s loyal fanbase, whilst also attracting the uninitiated, surely a compromise can be reached on this issue?
Excellent comment Richard. I know so many people who got their first goose bumps from the noise of the F1 engine.
Interesting to listen to Christian Horner and Ron Dennis being interviewed by Chris Evans on his BBC Radio 2 morning breakfast programme today, the main talking point for once in the motorsport world being insufficient noise than too much of it. All three seemed to agree with Bernie that something has to be done to raise the decibels and I agree. I love the new power units and the cutting edge technology they represent, but not that rather weedy exhaust note.
If you ask people wearing red if they like Liverpool, the chances are…
Well, honestly for the millions watching on TV, its in Bernies own hands to do a better job of catching the engine sound (I had some people who know their sound recording technology comment on way to capture more of the full range of sounds), and with modern technology it shouldn’t be too much of a task to increase the loudness on that channel.
Its not as if you hear what the cars sound like on TV anyway. Not now, and even less in the past (it would ruin your ears!).
Have to agree its more down to the FoM stream than the actual cars. Some of the Youtube footage of the cars in Bahrain sounded great and a fair bit louder.
Could Bernie have purposely turned down the volume on the stream to support his point?
Now there is a thought…
oh come on, are you really endorsing this kind of speculation? I mean as if Bernie thought he could reverse it back to V6’s! If he did not want this to have happened, it would not have happened. I think he listned to the manufacturers and had to do it in the end or face running a show with one or best two engine manufacturers. Testament to this is the return of Honda, which is a very important thing for the future of F1 or in Bernie speak for his and CVC’s further earn out.
Speculation is speculation. If you don’t think BE is capable of such things, you are an innocent. Whether that is what happened is another story. BE has always been against the change.
jeroen, go search for what Martin said. It’s there.
Those clips told me that the sound of the new cars was great and all the rubbish speculation was dead.
And I still think it is as the TV feed I saw was far from a polished performance; they had sound problems thruout most of the preliminaries that carried over to the race.
If he did Martin that is just really really sad. But then again, its Bernie so it wouldnt be the first time he has done something really sad.
The FOM footage is recorded with a very specific compression/pass filter/EQ – some of which is clearly set up for the old days and to meet broadcast requirements (UK TV for instance has very specific limits on frequency dB levels for audio technical pass – it’s why hearing a band at a festival live sounds NOTHING like the TV or radio broadcast). Given the old engines had much less of lower frequency noise and the volume was drastically cut to allow for broadcast at source, it makes sense that the new TV feed isn’t optimised for these engines.
I know a lot of audio guys who can tell you what needs to be done right away. The new cars certainly ARE quieter in sheer sound pressure levels but the if you harvest more energy back into the units, the less volume there is going to be all being equal. But the TV audience can certainly be delivered a more visceral experience with tuning the input and mixing for the new reality.
Whether Bernie has interfered with the broadcast specs, or it’s just lack of preparation is hard to say. Most audio engineers aren’t happy about putting out a poor product regardless of what their paymasters say (I know ones who’ve quit over TV broadcasts being ‘squashed’ after their mix) but I don’t know how kowtowed the peons in FOM are…
Martin,UK I think you are 100% right here. The tone and volume has been adjusted in my opinion. The sharpness of the tone in testing differs and it’s a great pick up from you. The plot thickens.
I went every day and watched mainly from Turn 6. I think the noise levels are much better as you can actually talk to the person next to you and you can actually hear the race on the radio and hear the track announcers. It was much easier to follow the actual race. Also its good to hear a distinctive note from each engine manufacturer.
The sound of the V8’s was just shrill.
It makes no sense to me why the Grand Prix corporation is complaining, you would think they would be talking up the event. Unless the government wants to talk it down so it doesn’t look too bad if they don’t re-sign the contract
Exactly.
I sat on the main straight and had one ear phone in and other one out so could talk to my mates, hear the tyres chirp as they took off from the pits, listen to the different tones of engines as they passes. Hear when my mate came back with a beer.
The V8s were good and shril and sounded like a bag of bolts as they trundeled slowly down the pits, but things move on and things change.
This is the new engine and the new noise and new teams winning, so just get use to it.
Nobody I met on the 4 days was complaining about lack of noise, they were all cheering on the change of leaders and the amount of passing that Williams were doing.
Only thing F1 needs now is for Paul DiResta to be back racing.
“A little less padding in a ballet dancer’s tights does not stop the ladies liking ballet, does it?”
Hmm – Not sure just how much you know about ballet dancers Joe…
You are, of course, correct, in everything you say; even a politician might have stepped down in such circumstances, no hold on a minute, this is now, I was thinking of the days when politicians had a shred of honour…
With Melbourne 2014 being my 10th grand prix I have attended and the first 9 being in the V8 era I was quite happy sitting in the stands at the start/finish line on Sunday without earplugs. Whilst I was quite surprised at the different sound as Practice 1 commenced on Friday, by the time that session had finished I was enjoying the new sounds.
Let me assure you, they sound mega flying through turn 14 and under braking into turn 15 with pops, whistles, whines and bangs – and the occasional shrill screech of an under-rotating Pirelli. Similarly, as they accelerate into turn 16 there is no doubting the brutal nature of the powerplant.
The more user- friendly pitch of the new powerplants will hopefully mean that I can introduce my 2 children to Formula 1 live several years before I could have in the V8 era. New generations of viewers blah blah blah
As for Ron Walker and his claims of breach of contract, they are simply embarrassing.
Aren’t they. Ron is supposed to be a savvy bloke.
That is now used to be………
I cannot believe Mr. E and his buddies complaining about F1 car noise. It’s like the president of Coca-Cola complaining about bubbles. Do these guys know that they are not supposed to pee on their own plate?
I think I have just read the best quote yet about engine noise…
A little less padding in a ballet dancer’s tights does not stop the ladies liking ballet, does it?
Simply put you do talk sense Joe…. but what would it take for the tracks and teams to see sense… another entrepreneur or another insider?
I loved the racing this weekend and liked the replacement tyre squeals and track sounds that had previously been hidden…. F1 has never before been a subtle sport but this weekend it showed that it could be.
Do you think that we will get more technical information about fuel flows / Battery Charging etc. on the TV during the race or would the team be giving away too much race strategy?
Looking forward to a great 2014 season.
Well said, I guess the current model is only sustainable with new crop of mini-oligarchs who all want to be the big fish in a small pond and generally do quite well from it (at least for a while). They seem to be so focused on the next piece of tasteless bling that they do not realise that the ‘big man’ is managing them all so well!
As for noise I preferred the variation of engines sounds when they were much less restricted in configuration and we had a range of sounds. The one I liked least was the screaming V10 era, closely follwed by the screaming V8’s that followed them. I like the sound now, it has som e-tech and it has a relevance beyond simple electric cars which will be limited until battry tech steps up in weight/energy terms.
F1 has a few issues to sort out and on the face of it it is the old guard that are resisting the effort for F1 to improve its image and profit by broadening its base.
Ecclestone and co seem to be stuck in a time warp, if they are even partially successful in stopping F1 from moving forward. The sport/business may end up in a black hole. Can the old guard be deposed? I think a test will be if the Russian GP goes ahead.
If given the choice, I’d have the old noise back, but ultimately it’s not a big deal. I did laugh when the BBC were churning out the “Melbourne GP to sue F1” story – I don’t think you have to be long following F1 to know Ron Walker and Bernie always sing off the same hymn sheet, even when they appear not to. As for Bernie, I think he’s becoming increasingly irrelevant. Famous last words and all that, but he’s been moaning about this and that for ages but not got anything done, while his sole contribution in the last year – double points for the closing race – has been roundly derided.
I’m spluttered at the ‘engine noise harming team revenues’ quote too. It’s not massively different on TV, where the revenues come from. Since when has Bernie cared about the fans at the circuit?
“With perhaps one exception” made me laugh. I think I’m going to be thinking about which team owner you mean for the rest of the day.
Well it isn’t Ron, Frank or Toto for sure, and probably not Monisha unless he’s changed his mind recently.
I think I might have guessed. Though now I’m wondering if the said individual still owns the teams or whether the creditors have taken over?
Lets go with Vijay
Did I say that?
Of course not.
I guess that’s another reason Bernie loves having all these countries competing to host races. If there are more potential venues, it’s harder for promoters to play hard-ball.
One day this will be a business school case study. The embedded value of F1 sits with the teams, drivers, circuits and regulator. Yet the latter flogged the rights for a silly period for silly money…..
Your claim that the new formula will be a boon to all car owners and the rest of humankind seems several miles on the far side of dubious… but in the other matters you addressed, you’ve demonstrated once again that you’re one of the few insiders who’s willing to tell the truth. So, thanks for that…
As an avid F1 follower since the early fifties the one constant is, it is made up of dudders, liars, and cheats and it will never change, especially whilst Bernie is being Bernie, if one looks at Benetton and Flavio, Force India, Piquets, Walkinshaw, Mosely, McLaren etc,etc this is not “just” eccentricity but a culture which Bernie is the ringmaster. Is it time to clean out the dudders? there would be no one left! if I were a corporate manafacturer ie Honda, Mercedes and others I would have serious reservations about my involvement maybe this is the reason the manafacturers would like to sideline Bernie, in the meantime I’m enjoying the corporate responsibilty with the green engine and its relativity to the motorist.
Is Singapore a star event? I can barely remember it – although it is at night I think? Monaco, Monza, Spa, Canada, Brazil, Silverstone, Oz – those I would miss.
Try going to it. It’s a really great event, the organisation is excellent and the racing really isn’t that bad for a street circuit.
I’m lucky to have been to both Monaco and Singapore, and while the latter can’t possibly compare to the history of the former it doesn’t make it worthy of dismissal.
I think Singapore is a star event for corporate boards certainly…
If, hypothetically, the current F1 circuits were to band together to push a harder bargain with FOM, are there enough alternative circuits around the world for The Bernard to turn to?
The best I can find is from a 2012 pdf from the Portuguese motorsports and karting federation which lists 28 Grade 1 tracks (technically 31, but there are 4 Bahrain variants) so if half of them struck an agreement it could get difficult for FOM.
However, they’d probably have to move quickly, as there are 15 tracks licensed as grade 2+1T (ok for F1 testing) and one would have to assume they’d be prime candidates for some upgrades to come up to standard to host races.
With The Bernard quite shrewdly staggering contract expiry amongst the circuits on the calendar it would be very tricky indeed to get any collective bargaining done.
To butcher Lineker’s famous quote about football : F1 is a simple sport. Twenty-two men chase each for about 100 minutes and at the end The Bernard is always the real winner.
Most fans would probably prefer to visit the ‘proper’ tracks twice a year than the current kart tracks in dictatorships. Would bring ticket prices down too. Never gonna happen though.
It’s a thought, though of course it’s the “proper” tracks who are most likely to struggle financially and therefore the ones more likely to consider forming a “union”.
And The Bernard will do whatever he can to host a GP elsewhere, as the Daily Mash lampooned in the wake of the Azerbaijan story : http://goo.gl/Na2Huo
Jem, incidentally, Grade 1T disappeared for this year and a full Grade 1 licence is now required to be eligible for F1 testing (per Appendix O).
Jerez upgraded in the Autumn; no idea if any other former Grade2+1T circuits have, but from your list you’ll note half-a-dozen of the others will have needed relicencing in 2013 anyway.
p.s. nice twist on Lineker. 🙂
Hi Joe,
You’re absolutely right about the need and benefits of the circuit promoters banding together and the terrible way in which F1 has been exploited by the suite. Fully agree with that sentiment.
I’m a huge fan of your blog and of F1. I went to my first race in ‘87 and have been to at least one event every year, ever since, with 2012 being the highlight when I went to 4 races……awesome stuff.
What I don’t agree with is the noise not being an issue, it’s an essential part of the on track (and TV to a lesser extent) experience, it’s a part of the magic that creates the passion, intrinsic value if you will.
The new formula may well be highly advanced and full of modern technology and very interesting energy recovery applications for the future of general motoring, however, the wow factor has now gone with the new engine note.
It’s akin to buying a coke without the fizz. When you crack open the can, the fizz is part of the intrinsic value. This is marketing 101. To take that away from the spectator experience is very silly. I would argue that the noise and subsequent reactions it elicits is part of the USP that makes F1 – F1. No fizz = flat coke. No presence at the circuit = no wow factor.
All of the new features of the new 2014 formula could easily still be there but carried out in a way that still leaves the spectator in visual and aural amazement at the ‘experience’ by simply allowing the cars to have that zing. When the support categories have more on track presence that the main game, something is seriously wrong. Most spectators aren’t there to be amazed at the fuel consumption they are there for the ‘show’ and like it or not a huge aspect of that show is the noise, especially when introducing someone to an event for the first time. It used to be an experience that you would never forget to hear a screaming V12, 10, or 8 F1 for the very first time.
At the end of the day there has to be a balance between the commercial, technology (green) and experiential elements that make up the ‘show’ sadly, this has not be created for 2014.
The word on the street in Melbourne was that people in their droves actually left the event in disgust on Friday and Saturday, with many giving their tickets away for the race. From my experience that is unheard of.
This is an issue that will continue for the rest of the year, and you can bet your bottom dollar the Italians with be furious to hear their beloved Ferrari’s circulate to a whimper at Monza.
You should know that the Italians give a damn about how their Ferraris sound as long as they are fast enough. And how do you explain the ever-growing crowds at Le Mans where are cars which are a lot more silent than F1? Someone who only attends a race because of a noise extending 140 dB(A) is not a real race fan imo.
Le Mans is clearly a different category with a different fan base. At the end of the day I stand by my opinion that this is a real issue for the rest of the year as far as the ‘spectacle’ goes.
There will be those that welcome it and many others that don’t. this is life.
Good post. If Bernie’s really so worried about noise, just turn the track side mics up so TV audiences can hear the howling, whistling turbos which sound pretty good when not drowned out by commentary…
People love to be negative, and in general are fearful of change. I’m still scratching my head at those who say they’ll never go to an F1 race again because now it’s not loud enough to do permanent damage to their hearing. Maybe they can’t hear themselves speak.
Once again, spot on. I think to anyone not straitjacketed into wanting it EXACTLY the way it was, last season, in the 90s, in the 70s, etc, would be forced to agree that at the very least, this is starting off as a fascinating season. And that power plants producing this much power in this many interesting ways ARE something that is the way forward in 2014 and beyond. And sorry, they sound f**king great!
I’ve always been amazed at promoters. Paying someone to use infrastructure that YOU control always seemed to be an insane business model. It’s all the more baffling that these guys are usually formidable businessmen . . . from Monday to Friday. But let them hear an engine, and they turn into clueless boys without a clue as to their real power.
We’ve all done the math. You can’t host a race at your circuit, pay $15M for it, be denied ONE METRE of signage around the circuit, sign away your intrinsic TV rights (not even 1% of your own race’s intake), and make any kind of profit. When your only revenue is tickets and hot dogs, you need to make F1 prohibitively expensive to attend, and to fill your circuit every day to barely break even. WHY DO THEY KEEP DOING THIS?
Suppose the circuits and promotors “cartelled up”? Suppose they told FOM that as of 2016 FOM would have to rent their circuits if they want to race? That the rent would a flat fee plus X% of that race’s TV revenues, plus some part of the circuit’s signage. Oh sure there’d be Bernie-esque bluff- WE DONT NEED YOU, YOU CAN F**K OFF.
Really Bernie? You don’t need Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Hungary, Montreal, Monaco, COTA, Sao Paulo, a German race, a Spanish race, etc? If you keep going to the only places willing to take a huge guaranteed loss (usually states awash in dirty, filthy money and politics, Singapore being an exception!), people are going to stop getting up at 7 AM. They’ll see the important overtaking moves and see who won on the evening news. And TV viewership, the goose laying your golden eggs, will go away slowly but surely. If this kind of cartel stayed even slightly unified, FOM would have no choice. The championship needs to stay at least 50% European, North and South American. There aren’t THAT many F1 homologated circuits around the globe!
Bernie and FOM NEED these circuits, and this kind of change in business model would help everyone – circuits to maintain and improve infrastructure, fans to have more democratic ticket prices, etc.
As for you, Joe, take some paracetamol. You’ve been churning out so much good stuff lately you must have a headache!
Joe’s original post and this comment are refreshingly heartfelt and painfully true. Thank you both. But will F1 ever choose the red pill?
I thought you were pro Bernie and anti Todt.
Can you not see the good and the bad in different people. I do not understand people who see everything in black and white terms…
Entertaining comment; you make good points but I think if the teams cannot find unity against FOM – i.e. those who are together every 2 weeks, who have not made long-term financial committments or would face substantial up front costs to change the current model – there is probably even less chance of the promotors doing so….
you’re probably right in respect of both the teams and the circuits but it’s absolutely bonkers that they can’t see that all being taken for mugs by Bernie and CVC. The FIA also seem fairly toothless in pushing for any reform to how the series is organised and the various parties remunerated
Clap, clap, clap……Very well spoken (written) Mr Saward….I couldn’t agree with you more…
I never liked the v8 sound. All engines sounded the same and it drowned out all other sounds which now have appeared again: crowd, wheels, etc.
The new engines have (ok, slightly) different voices and the cacophony of recovery systems and turbo is just great to hear. So for me the change to the new engines has been only positive!
+1 hated the V8s
V10s or V6s for me
Being quieter is a good thing for a sport that retires on racing in cities and the engines sound better than the old 4-cylinder turbos of the 80s. The noise thing is all hogwash to me. The rainy was still good and the power trains are back to being at the forefront of technology which is where F1 should be.
Actually the 1977 on, turbo era had Straight 4’s. V6’s and V8 turbos….
Indeed they did, as (highly respected racing engine engineer, ex Cosworth, ex Honda) Mr. Knowles will doubtless recall.
Just pointing out variety of engine cylinder layout. To me one type engine ( be it V10-V8-V6 ) is not F1. I, like you, date back to V8-V12-Boxer 12, and even a little before that H16! Yay!. Much as Indycar doesn’t grab me as a One Make Series, neither does a One Engine Configuration excite me, whether it sounds like a vacuum cleaner or not, is actually less of an issue in some respects!
Quite true. Believe me, I don’t think IndyCar as a one make series grabs anyone. As you articulated in your earlier reply to ‘BasCB’, rather than worrying about noise, people should be more concerned with the slow rotting away of the underpinnings of the sport.
Well I do think that the quality of the noise ( as opposed to total db volume ) is important, but that comes with variety of engines. Which is why, although the V8’s sounded great, I still miss the mix of engines. As to the cars, well I’m not opposed to someone buying a McLaren and racing it, or being a Williams customer, however many people who did that went on to build their own machines. I actually think customer cars should be re-instated in F1. One Make anything motorsport, drives me away. I’m not interested in seeing a field of Ginettas or Porsches, doesn’t do a thing for me. But as to what is done to preserve the sport, that will only happen when it really hits rock bottom, and I fear the reason is that in series like F1, there is still such an absurd amount of money to be made from sponsors/tv/fans, that the Turkeys within the sport, will not chose to vote for Christmas! Until they find the Boxing Day table more or less empty, they won’t think to revamp things in a sensible way. Teams like FIndia and Lotus might vanish and people will say, so what? To my mind, it would be more sense if say Force India could sell cars to Caterham, and Marussia could run a pair of Saubers? Lotus could sell a car or two to some top GP2 outfit, who could run Paul Di Resta, or someone else equally deserving. I know people will scream heresy at my ideas, but they worked well enough when I was a kid….The Captains McLaren M19 was a pretty nice looking machine…and there were others, Of course doing customer cars with the current fiendishly complex and expensive power units, would be pretty impossible. But if you like watching Merc,Renault,Ferrari and next year, Honda, then fine. What happens when one or more decide they have had enough? After all, it’s not Toto Wolfe or Niki Lauda making those decisions, it’s the faceless Board. Honda went pretty quick. Renault have been and gone before. With kit like this though, it would be damned hard to replace their allotted grid spots now.I can’t see Ferrari wanting to power 22 cars? It all seems as short sighted as usual with F1.
Damian, I think it might be wise to defer to the professionals on this one.
Nigel Beresford, head of engineering remembered the day: “He came back into the pits and said ‘thank you very much, I’ve learned what I need to know.’ Then he got out of the car and that was that.” Senna decided to stay in F1 and never drove an Indycar again
Off topic but what do you think Senna learned – that there was too big a performance difference between Indycar series and F1 to interest him?
(It’s a treat having commentry from industry veterans such as Trevor Knowles, yourself, Gary Hartstein etc.)
Don’t get me wrong – I wasn’t challenging Damian in any way. I respect and agree with many of the points he made. I was just confirming Trevor’s credentials.
With regard to Senna, at that time I don’t think the performance gulf between CART cars and F1 was quite as big as one might imagine. In that era we (Penske) had plenty of F1 style technologies, often in advance of middle order F1 teams (e.g. traction control before it was banned, three-spring systems, advanced damper technologies, tyre pressure monitor systems, even a mechanical active suspension), and the engines were somewhere between 800-900 hp. Obviously, though, an Indycar (at around 700 kg) was always going to feel heavy compared to a 500 kg F1 car. Nonetheless I think he really enjoyed driving the car, and very quickly understood the signals it was giving him. He knew where he could push harder, but chose not to. It’s fashionable in some quarters to diss Senna, but he was the most enormously impressive driver I ever had the (brief) opportunity to work with. Indycar was great fun and technically very interesting – something Senna (like his countrymen Emerson and Gil) would probably have found satisfying – especially the challenges of Indianapolis, but I suspect he was just indulging a curiosity when he drove our car , and adding pressure to McLaren. I doubt it was ever serious.
I didn’t think I had upset you Nigel. I don’t generally expect a personal opinion to be a reason for anyone to get on their high horse! I wouldn’t diss Senna either, although I would say he had some unusual aspects to his character, and he had a remote quality that was also reflected by Michael Schumacher in his career. Again, different people, but some similarities. One big thing they shared seemed to be an inability to believe they could ever be even slightly wrong about anything that got them mad. On balance, I feel MS was an extreme example of a complete dedication to winning by sheer force of will and use of every technical weapon available to him. Senna was a bit similar, but much as I very appreciated watching MS at work, I have always had a sneaky feeling that Senna just had some indefinable ability that possibly only Tazio Nuvolari, in the history of the sport, has ever shared. Also, although I’m sure Senna was difficult to deal with at times, I have never fallen for the line that Alain Prost was the victim in their McLaren years, nor that he was as good as Senna. He had good kit and used it well, and on his day he could beat Senna, but to me, the guy who was the greatest rival to Ayrton, was Nigel Mansell…another difficult personality! I think Nigel in a McLaren from 1988-1990 would have really given Ayrton some problems!!
Thanks for the response and additional insight, much appreciated.
Andrew, don’t think I was knocking Nigel. As you say, it’s great to have people like him commenting on Joe’s blog. This is a great place for a decent discussion/argument, without it descending into the stygian darkness of the Fanboy Zone found elsewhere! Who knows what Senna had in mind? Paul Tracy, who was there apparently, recently said that Senna was immediately quicker than Emmo. But I don’t know what else was going on. Of course I fully expect that Ayrton was tugging Ron Dennis’s tail by going off to test there. And with Ron & drivers, there always seemed to be lots and lots of money negotiations, at that time it would not have hurt Ayrton to be seen looking at other activities, when also engaged in money talks with RD!
Unity = Strength, that is a simple fact pre-programmed to be continuously re-learnt.
Could it be that Bernie and his friend Walker are simply making noises off stage to distract the ladies [and other interested parties] from the outsize padding and wadding on stage?
BTW, the ladies bless them are not so easily fooled … it is the other interested parties!
Spot on as always, Joe! I think Bernie believes that as long as he can get people to talk about all the bad aspects of the new engines (noise, fuel savings, etc.) they will forget he is indicted for bribery. I wonder, in what other business could the CEO keep on telling the customers that the companys new main product is no good and still keep his job? CVC should tell Bernie to start promoting F1 and the new hybrid engines or find himself something else to do.
Lets not forget that the real reason Bernie hates the new engines is the cost not the sound. This year the teams need more money than ever and the few more € he dished out since the start of the current bunch of contracts started seem insignificant. Not only that but he has had to pay off the FIA (incredibly cheaply) as JT has woken from the deep and demanded more for his mysterious doings. (A castle in Switzerland maybe)
You have to admire the persistent mis-direction and smoke generation capabilities of the man who may well not be with us much longer. He has apparently threatened to sell his shares in FOM (or the F1 layer cake) if CVC sell theirs, thus he will end his own era. If he is found guilty in Germany I would imagine that CVC will divest itself of F1 pretty rapidly, indeed if the deal option is not already in place just in case, they are missing a trick. (Assuming of course that Luca approves)
Without Bernie, F1 flounders or appears to; this will affect the apparent valuation. Though to be fair if you wanted to buy it and have it for 2 years it could be viable but only if you could push the debt forward again.
It not about the sound at all, as I said the other day after 3 races it will seem normal to everyone who goes to all the races.
Other changes are not so welcome, the new timing data presentation on tv for instance. Who is responsible for that? The new timing people or the data people?
This blog has so many great contributors Joe! ” You have to admire the persistent mis-direction and smoke generation capabilities of a man who may well not be with us much longer”….I read that and had to have a Joe QC!! By the way rpaco, if you fancy more new changes, a lot of people are now suggesting 45 min or 1 hour race distance, so we can get over it quicker!
“if you fancy more new changes, a lot of people are now suggesting 45 min or 1 hour race distance, so we can get over it quicker!”
Well dumbing down seems to have been inflicted on most aspects of life now, so ….
As you will have noticed my long term view is pessimistic, unless F1 gets totally re-structured both in governance and in finance. Whilst Bernie was instrumental in making very great changes in F1 and monetising it, he has now backed it into a cul de sac where it has a limited life.
yes… dumbing down…. can anyone remind us how long the E events are going to last?……
However long it’ll be too long….
Indeed it has. And I think you are correct that the bubble will explode. F1 & Bernie have been riding the boom in money availability over the last 25-30 years, the collapse of 2008 has taken a while to sink in, and that was probably because I would think most sponsors contracts with teams are multi year, and financially hard to break. However, seeing a McLaren with no title sponsor is a bit of a revelation. And it is common knowledge that Lotus,Force India and likely 3-4 others are in trouble. Only because the amount of money being spent is absurd. If they all refocused on lower expenditure and throttled back on the more ridiculous aspects of high tech, which do nothing to make the actual racing better, then there is a model available for long term survival. At present they look like Dinosaurs looking up at an approaching Asteroid and wondering what it is?
I believe your are entirely right, but I also believe those potential sponsors are all hypocrites anyway they all lie cheat and steal to suit their own purposes using morals as it suits them.
Great stuff! The bizarre view that the noise is in some way totemic and vital to the sport is being manipulated by Mr E to create another fabricated smokescreen scandal (double points! rain towers! Hitler got things done!). I await Eddie Jordan’s view on this with depressed resignation. To me the sound is much more textured and interesting (though frankly its not the biggest deal).
I love 2014 F1, the power to grip ratio makes the cars a challenge again. I am looking forward to seeing if Vettel can adjust to this level of downforce. Obviously he optimized his driving style around a very good EBD (“plant the throttle mid-corner and trust Adrian”).
Which team owner could you be thinking of Joe….? Vijay never strikes me as the smartest man on the grid in interviews. Not sure about the chaps who run Louts either, it is hardly going super great there.
Only other thing, since Gary Anderson has gone neither Sky nor the BBC has anyone who can offer a genuine technical insight. Sky market Ted Kravis as some kind of “boffin” figure but he claimed an F1 ICE did not need park plugs as the injector ignited the fuel by magic or something. I’m not having a go at Ted as he is good at what he does but is there anyone on TV (obviously loads of people online who are great) giving actual, relevant technical detail?
I picked up on that too. It hadn’t occurred to me that the new engine regs had included switching to diesel…
I wonder if a vendor has ever been sued for their product not providing enough noise pollution?
‘A little less padding in a ballet dancer’s tights does not stop the ladies liking ballet, does it?’
Or the men, for that matter…. ; )
Great post Joe, but I think you have been reading mine of the last couple of days. I tried to get the MotoGP track owners to work together back in 1991 when I ran the Oz MotoGP on the same grounds as you mention to stop Dorna stepping in. Back then Flammini was the Ron Walker and basically stopped it.
Bob, my dad Morgan says g’day to you. He remembers you from the Alice Springs days when you ran McMahon engineering prior to going to the Aust GP
Hope Joe lets this completely OT post through!
Julian f
Top, top post Joe…. hitting the nail absolutely 100% square on the head.
This noise debate that BE is getting himself embroiled in, is just another case of misdirection and a smokescreen, to get all the GMM and other lazy headline grabbing “journo’s” out there talking about something else other than the [alleged] corruption and nefarious goings on by the suited leaches and the hobbit
Thanks Joe that’s an absolutely excellent piece – glad to finally read some intelligent analysis of the situation instead of the hysterical garbage that’s been in the mainstream news outlets about the new rules.
Watching the coverage at the weekend certainly was a change – it does have a different atmosphere to previous seasons, but we’ll all get used to it soon. Most importantly, it seems to have an air of high-tech about it again.
Out of interest Joe, do you think the sound on the TV coverage might improve as the season goes on? Presumably the sound recording is slightly different with the quieter/less high-pitched noise. Might the sound engineers require a bit of time to get to grips with the new cars?
I say that because the cars sounded really nice on some shots, but less so on others.
Hi Joe,
While I can’t speak for anyone else, the experience in Melbourne with the pathetic engine sound was one that I will not pay to experience again. The TV will do just fine, for free, and I can stay home, not spending money on accommodation etc. I am a consumer of F1 and I did not like the product and out there in the crowd beyond the inner paddock the feeling was everywhere with plenty of unhappy customers.
I get that when someone is so heavily invested in something that it is both unwise and unproductive for them to criticise what is their lifeblood and what they have no control over, they may as well like it because frankly, what option is there?
I am no casual observer, I love F1, I used to arrive for the 8.00am warmups on raceday in the 90’s and I never miss a session when in Melbourne. Flavio Briatore may have been right when he said that the fans don’t give a shit about tech they can’t see. This argument about benefiting the lives of A Class drivers means nothing to us and is a sorry reminder of the damage to racing of having car companies too heavily involved. Go back a few years, I couldn’t go buy a Judd, Ilmor, Hart or a Cosworth engine because these were racing companies. Car companies involved gained prestige from winning with their V12 Honda and so on. The focus was on racing. Now it seems we are trying to link what is supposed to be the pinnacle of motor sport to the most boring dregs of vanilla motoring. I am under no illusions and that this is the commercial reality at this time but that doesn’t mean I have to consume F1 if I don’t like the product.
And yes, those missing decibels are the X Factor, without them it wasn’t special enough to travel for, to spend a few thousand for, to disrupt my family routine for. I had the priviledge of visiting the pits on Sunday this year and that was the only thing that kept me in Melbourne past FP2.
Everyone can call me a whinger or whatever, I can handle that, calling me names doesn’t change what I value or will spend my money on. In my discussions with the organisers I know they are are inundated with messages from people who won’t be returning next year as I won’t be. All the platitudes or arguments in the world can’t change the fact that my favourite sport since 1989 left me cold this weekend. The magic was gone.
We will vote with our wallets, and that is all that counts. I am yet to meet a F1 fan who was unhappy with the old noise, nor do I suspect that many non fans will now rush in for a more genteel experience.
Let’s discuss this again in 12 months when we get the crowd figures in Albert Park. Then there will be evidence, one way or the other.
That was the exact point I was going to make; The test over engine audio power will be NEXT year, if the fans stay away in droves. But me thinks young Mr. Ricciardo will keep the true fans flocking to the gates in support next year.
Nice piece, thank you.
Right there with you artys. I think that’s what a lot of the apologists are missing, that a very real and important visceral part of the experience is gone. I could accept ugly cars that sounded proper. These are ugly cars that sound like gassy vacuum cleaners. I’m not spending large hunks of my salary to travel to watch that…
Welcome to the future!
Embrace it or reject it is always a personal option. A true fan may give up attending the event, but I’d wager a tidy sum you’ll still watch and follow the sport.
Go on Youtube and search “Monza Ligier Matra”. As a 10 year old, the sound of the Matra was magical. Still is. Even as the cars turned uglier and uglier, at least the sound could take me back. Now there’s nothing. Nothing of what drew me in all those years ago has survived. Yes it is progress. Can’t deny the future and all that. And I’m sure guys in the 70s complained it wasn’t like it was in the 50s. It’s human nature. But I think for a lot of us, this is a tipping point. Will I still record the races on the DVR? Probably. But it’ll sit there along with MotoGP and other race series, waiting for a rainy day when I have nothing better to do.
I suspect this might be more of an issue in some countries more than others.
We all have our reasons for following F1. I think some are potentially more complex than others.
I’m a Brit – whilst I respected the physical loudness of the V10/V8 era I prefer seeing technical progress being made. This isn’t top-fuel drag racing – the lack of noise means all that energy is going into the road… the cars are OUTSTANDING machines this year technically.
It also seems to me that the reduced aero is focusing attention on driver skill more than in recent years and long may that continue…
But some ignore all of that because they’re not getting smacked in the head by the noise!?!…
Agree on the countries – I think Britain with its BTCC will not mind too much, Italians will not be happy, and the Americans will think its now become Indycar
Some canny promoters will be careful what they put on the support bill
Iif the put a historic Can Am it will highlight the quiteness much more than a Formula Ford
Lol – just a few minutes after I posted- McLaren fire up the Can Am M8D
McLaren @McLarenF1 10m
Thought you might like this, Bernie…. http://youtu.be/9ZHMjdzw0w0?t=1m26s … #noisy
I first experienced F1 with the V10s back in… but it was painful and I never wanted to experience that again. I would have taken my family to Abu Dhabi last year, but I knew the sound would freak them out so I didn’t go. For me, a quieter, more family friendly event is the key to passing on my interest to the next generation.
“Formula 1 is a magic thing and a few missing decibels will not change that.”
Maybe, maybe not. After all, it’s “just” F1. No big deal – or is it? We’ll see…
Hi Joe,
Great evening last Thursday.
I hope you are right when it comes to the noise of the new cars, or lack of.
My feeling, and this is just an observation from being in the grandstands, is that a lot of the traditional spectators are less likely to return next year.
The new cars are interesting, even the new sound is in the braking and acceleration zone, but there’s a dimension missing from the experience of being there.
Whilst it can be blamed on the lack of promotional efforts from the governing body, organisers, teams, etc, one should not underestimate the decision making factors in selling tickets.
(And if this wasn’t bad enough, excluding Ricciardo was pretty daft from an Aussie perspective, but I digress).
Gone are the days when spectators would rush to their seats upon hearing an F1 car out of the garage. Instead, they were happily queuing up for a drink or some food and chatting about the amazing display from the jet fighter (not even the RB7 doing the speed comparison!) rather than whether Kimi stood any chance against Alonso, etc.
The problem I think is that the turbo charger acts as a silencer. This is not new technology in itself and probably won’t save the world from climate change either. Maybe we could have done without it so as to keep F1 more in line with the paying public?
There was a bit of an outcry in 2006 when engines moved from V10 to unrestricted V8 but in the end the cars were still intrinsically loud. Funnily enough, there was a lot less noise when the RPM were capped at 18,000 the following year.
I don’t think this talk of noise is going to away anytime soon, but we’ll only be able to monitor the impact on attendance next year.
In the meantime, Renault, Mercedes or Ferrari would do well to consider you as part of their PR strategy team. I love your enthusiasm on the topic.
Cordialement,
Damien le Lyonnais
“Gone are the days when spectators would rush to their seats upon hearing an F1 car out of the garage.”
I think thats so true, I don’t think it can be stressed enough that it wasn’t just a few whinging Poms or diehard fans complaining about the noise, it was on almost everyone’s lips at the track
I would think it actually was talked about much much more in the stands and bars than the ugly noses of last year (And yes I could hear them last year 🙂 )
Absolutely. No one seemed too bothered about the noses, except for that of Toro Rosso and Caterham. It’s hideous to the extreme.
Mind you, if they sounded like last year and looked like this, everyone would be talking about it!
Watching on TV I did find the car noises, I won’t say engine noises, a little strange and slightly irritating. They almost seemed muffled on the microphones… and sort of like being on a bus. But it was no more irritating than trying to listen over the noise of two toddlers playing in my living room.
I’m surprised no one has suggested some of the ERS power be tapped to drive some big speakers making BRUUUUUM BRUUUUUUUUM noises to make it like it was last year. That way maybe my toddlers would watch as well.
On this season’s prospects in general, I reckon it will take RedBull a few races to figure out how to get undetectable and illegal traction control onto their cars and from then Vettel will fly away 😉
The real irony with Mr. Walker is that he’s encouraging fans not to come to his event next year. Hello.
I’ve got tickets for the Grand Prix in Monaco in May and think it will be just fine if I don’t have to use ear plugs. Maybe I can talk to my friends and other fans during the race too. I visited the Italian Grand Prix at Monza two years ago and remember it was quite tough for my ears, even with the plugs. And what’s the point of having very loud engines if you must suppress the sound in order to save your hearing?
Watching the drivers in all the timed sessions and the race, it was pretty clear that they had their work cut out for them in both dry and wet. And that was a welcome change from seasons past where driving an F1 car was starting to look (even though I’m sure it wasn’t) easy. As far as the noise is concerned, for some reason these cars sounded more dramatic in testing, in particular in amateur YouTube videos from Jerez than they did on the race weekend broadcast. I don’t mind that too much as my guess is that with energy efficiency will come less noise as well. If the fans don’t like watching the drivers working hard in the cockpit and good racing then I think they need to rethink what draws them to F1 in the first place.
There’s also the issue of why this would affect race promoters or F1 (looking beyond the fact that Ecclestone and Walker are pretty tight) in the long run. Less noise means local government bodies and the residents being less likely to run the circus out of town due to ear splitting noise.
Not to mention hearing a crowd cheer (when Ricciardo got provisional pole) and then groan (when Hamilton beat him) added a spectacular new element to the experience of an F1 weekend. Probably won’t hurt that those spectators will be able to understand what a PA will be saying as well (as they used to be able to once upon a time I reckon).
There are a lot more positives to draw from the Australian GP than negatives. One big negative being the way Ricciardo’s exclusion was handled. Wish it could have been evaluated and handed out before the podium ceremony than after it.
I do not believe Le Mans has been hurt on the spectator front since the whispering, or is that whistling, diesels came along.
“Bernie Ecclestone… says that the lack of noise could lead to a drop in revenues and this will hurt the teams. Some of the team owners are rather eccentric but not one of them (with perhaps one exception) is dumb enough to believe that one.”
Step forward, please, Mr. Vijay Mallya. Let’s hear it for Vijay, ladies and gentlemen.
I’m not naming names. You can draw your own conclusions, but I’m not saying.
You can be as coy as you like Joe, but this conclusion has been well and truly drawn (and not just by me). On the Aussie TV coverage of the weekend Mallya’s asinine throw-away-line-to-camera about the noise F1 cars should make was even featured on the wrap-up montage at the end of the programme. Politics and humbug.
Well, if you insist I do not wish to be accused of being anti-Vijay, so I can say that I was not referring to him. He may not be the smartest knife in the draw, given what he has done with the empire he inherited, but he is more of an ego-maniac than a fool.
As an ego maniac he would be amongst familiars in the rarefied community of F1 top-of-the-pile types, methinks…
Neither Tony Vandervell or his Vanwall cars made a lot of noise, and I’m sure he would not agree with Ecclestone and his CVC mates pocketing most of the money.
He dealt direct with the promoting clubs/circuit owners.
High time the car owners’ took up your ideas and followed his example.
The sport needs to rid itself of the parasites
Just checked with a male ballet dancer: they only use padding when the part demands it.
Very droll
Dear Joe, all
I have only heard an F1 car once- when Jenson Button took a McLaren around the Mt panorama track a few years ago, and, yes, the sound was like no other internal combustion engine I have ever heard- spine tingling. However, no more spine tingling, for me than the sound of a Falcon GTHO Phase III in the 1971 Hardie Ferodo 500. Given how different they are, I would have to say that the way one responds to sound is a purely subjective experience. The Mercedes engine in the McLaren was revving at somewhere close to 20,000 (can’t remember what rev restriction was in place), the 351 Cleveland, at about 7000. Is one noise “better” than the other? In the end, any internal combustion engine makes a sound of some sort, a product of the laws of physics, and, a by-product of a motor vehicle being pushed to go as fast as practicably possible. And, how any human being chooses to value that sound could be the subject of a 5000 word essay.
Personally, if a by product of a new engine formula (which returns F1 to some relevance to a more efficient, less polluting road car in the coming years,)is less decibels, then it would seem to me that it is a small price to pay compared to the benefits- which will benefit car owners across the world, and, mankind in general, as you so wrote, Joe.
How will more decibels benefit mankind?
Cheers
MarkR
Kudos for writing what many think but perhaps, not say. Maybe one day F1 will be controlled by someone who make lots of money out of it; not obscenely lots with asset stripping, loans, etc. to the detriment of F1.
Regarding the engine noise, it was a bit quiet on TV too. Its not the end of the world, and surely its possible to turn up the track-side microphones.
Hi Joe,
I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate the way you report on the ins and outs of F1. Yours is the first website I open to read F1 related stories -providing a both balanced and critical assessment of what goes on. The world needs more people like yourself – passionate and not afraid to say what they think. Hats off to you kind Sir.
On a semi-related note to the article. In your opinion is a scenario where Bernie is sentenced in Germany, avoids jail and retains the position of CEO a possibility? Surely not … right?
Regards
Maciej
I do not know.
it seems to me to be already clear that driver skill is once again going to be a major factor …after years of watching cars with oodles of downforce and relatively easy to drive …..it’s not before time in my view
ok , for the moment mercedes have a big advantage , but i think that will not last for long …it won’t be like the red bull era when a magician for an aerodynamicist kept the others at bay , i expect that car advantage may change from track to track
noise level low ? who cares ..not me for a start
“…the suited vultures” are in the picture because of two men: Ecclestone & Mosley, and you know it. CVC didn’t engineer some hostile take over, the red carpet was laid out for them & they were hand picked amongst various suitors.
“…and for that F1 has only itself to blame” Again you know the vast majority involved had no say in the matter. The undeniable fact is Ecclestone has always had (or successfully intimated he had) the liquidity to stroke the check to take advantage of opportunities as they presented themselves.
Did I suggest otherwise?
I don’t see this as a matter of right or wrong, just personal preference. Personal view is that the sound of the v10’s and v8’s were quite awesome. One of the first things if not the first thing first time f1 spectators note is the engine noise.
Understand times change and new technologies will be applied but for many, some of the appeal is gone. I’m still a huge fan and I’ll watch the races but I’ll miss the sounds.
“There will come a time – sooner or later – when things will change and F1 will no longer have to kowtow to the suited vultures.”
I agree totally. There’s now a real chance that this would happen, and the precursor to that happening is Bernie Ecclestones removal from not just his position, but possibly the entire sport. That, in itself, is not enough to bring about a complete revolution. But it may be the genesis of such an occurrence and may be enough to start a chain of events leading to this. I hope so, because as much as we can drawl on for some considerable time about the good he’s done for the sport (correct), he’s also done it a great deal of harm (also correct) by, in no small part, engineering the situation which has led to the current state of affairs.
You do the sport a great service, in my opinion, when you write with such passion and insight, well done.
‘F1 is my passion as well as my profession’. I thought your profession was journalist/author, not F1 professional…
Seriously, the sound of an F1 car should be one of the things that sets it apart from other formulae. So you might need earplugs in the grandstands. Aren’t sensations like that part of being alive?
Hmm F1 being seen as environmentally friendly cause leader with the new engine formula. It is only a token gesture given the precious chemicals used in the batteries now and the fuel cost of shipping it all around the world. Will Honda bring their Earth Car back in 2015…..
F1 journalist is a profession.
Not too long ago I attended a test session at Silverstone, and was extremely p***ed off to be sitting in the grandstand surrounded by people who thought that I would love to hear the sound of an airhorn every time their favourite drivers went past. As there were quite a few of them, and they all supported different heroes, all we heard was airhorns… it almost put me off ever going again. I’m a musician – I don’t particularly want to go deaf yet…
Last July a friend got me into the pits, and promptly supplied me with (necessary) ear-plugs. So, if the latest breed of cars means I don’t need to wear earplugs, I’m all for it.
“Seriously, the sound of an F1 car should be one of the things that sets it apart from other formulae. So you might need earplugs in the grandstands.”
If you use earplugs the sound you hear will be much less noisy than the sound of the V6 turbos you can hear alive. So what`s your problem??
“Seriously, the sound of an F1 car should be one of the things that sets it apart “.
Seriously, the 130dB of the new engines is extremely loud still. The 145dB of the V8 was just criminally insane.
I am an ex sound engineer and a musician (yes, it is a profession), and having spent years at venues casually hitting over 120dB has left me with chronic tinnitus and hypersensitivity. Check a tolerance graph , anything over 140dBA causes permanent damage immediately. Recommended exposure on the V8s is under half a minute, even with heavy duty ER30s plugs. Go over that, and your hearing will suffer.
Losing both the dynamic and spectral integrity of your hearing might not mean much for people not relying on it to live off, but it has been my number one cause for not attending an event in person. I’ve missed very few GP broadcasts since the late nineties, and whilst I do love the older higher tone, I always wished the damn cars where slightly quieter so I could see them in person. Even attending promo events has been tough; caught a glimpse of Button revving an MP4-23 in Manchester few years back, which left me with a bad ringing for the following two weeks.
And talking about technology, consider this. Noise needs energy, hence, noisy machines are inefficient. This sport is supposed to be motosports’ pinnacle of skill and technology, not a wow-factor circus. A spectacle, yes, but not at the cost of substance.
I love teh sound of a screaming engine, and I think the character of the v6 exhaust could be improved, but I also loved hearing the tires scream when locked or spun up. And hearing the bottom plank clatter off the road under heavy aero load was great too.
The fact that people come to the race in Melbourne doesn’t alter the fact that a lot of people who watch on TV were disappointed in the new engine note. For many, it was their first chance to hear the new engines. If you don’t like it and prefer the old noise, it’s “worse”, not just “different”. Judging by gate alone doesn’t tell the entire tale.
I am really enjoying the obvious love for the sport that is coming through in your posts this season Joe. There are so many interesting things happening in the sport this year, and so many things to learn, that it becomes really tiring to find the bulk of ink published (or pixels generated) on the subject to be so obviously negative and cynical.
There are plenty of real controversies in F1, like you touch on in this post, that have a much greater influence on the health and enjoyment of the sport than any of the manufactured outrage over this year’s engine note, nose jobs or…fuel flow rates.
Thanks for trying to stay focused on the real challenges and also letting us know that, despite them, F1 is still a fantastic sport.
The thing is the average person doesn’t care about ERS MGU K MGU H or whatever. They want to experience something visceral. They want to be entertained on a primal human level. I am told by F1 regulars that attended the race that the sound is quite bland, and that accounts for 50% of the spectacle. Although hardcore F1 fans like you and I will “learn to accept it”, the potential new fan (which F1 is trying hard to obtain) has another point of view. The average person was not impressed by these machines.
You are Mr Average?
trying to bridge that gap 🙂
Dear av2290
Guess I mustn’t be the average person- I do care about the power unit- it is extremely relevant to road cars, it is far more efficient than the v8, it is another facet of F1 to get one’s head around, which I enjoy. Found the race intensely interesting, and, the only comment regarding the sound is that, despite what the commentators were saying about Vettel’s car having an ERS problem, could hear the engine note clearly enough to deduce that the internal combustion part of the power unit sounded like it was running on less than pots- that was satisfactory for me, sound wise.
I asked a very experienced mechanic about the wisdom of purchasing a Lexus hybrid recently- specifically re durability of the battery pack, and, expense of replacement. His advice- “the warranty is 5 years, get rid of the car before that expires, and, avoid costing yourself a fortune”
I would imagine that the current regs will contribute to change that, and, a hell of a lot quicker than if it was left to the manufacturers alone.
Dunno whether I am sub or super average:-)
MarkR
ohhh, bugger. “Less than pots” should read “Less than six pots”
MarkR
I attend every F1 race and can assure you that after a race or two you quickly realised the noise of the V8s was hideous. The new noise is quite cool, a mechanical grunt.
Joe, hope you have access to a bulletproof vest or a body guard because the powers that be are sure not going to “like” you painting a road map for their demise; however reasonable your observation.
That having been said it has always amazed me that Bernie got so incredibly rich off the backs of the F1 teams and circuit owners. Quite a feat when you think about it…
One has to be impressed by his achievement. The road map, by the way, is not new but the irony of trying to use the circuits to demand change is keen.
Mallory Park, Thruxton (in the UK) and more circuits are restricted to how many days they can host racing or testing due to noise restrictions. Ironic that they in theory might be more possible to run F1 cars than lower formulae (apart from the tracks not being suitable in other ways).
Very much appreciated your article which is Saward-state of the art: you tell it like it is! The answer to the question what is higher damage for the sport, a few decibles missing or a CEO indicted on criminal charges can be easily given I think. Ecclestone is whining about the sound, on the other hand he isn´t even able to get the TV micros set right which obviously are still calibrated for the noisier V8 to avoid pikes. Or is this done on purpose to nurture the “sound discussion”?? I put this past to them; one is bad-mouthing his product at every occasion, the other one is encouraging people to stay away from his event, so why not manipulate the sound?
Just have to comment that the noize being made by the grunge/rock/metal band behind the Fangio stand at one stage drowned out the F1 noise to such an extent that few moved from watching the stage or their beer/burgers and wine to watch the f1 cars………………..
Amazing machinery ? Now just what ‘ amazing ‘ machinery might that be Mr Saward ? Would that perhaps be the pretentiousness of green .. so called ‘ hybrid ‘ machinery masquerading as ‘ technology ‘ when in fact its the most blatant display of mechanized Smoke & Mirrors to be found in racing in decades ? Or perhaps its all the ‘ amazing ‘ garbage that in fact does everything possible to discourage genuine innovation and technology by ‘ manufacturing ‘ equality ? Perhaps .. you’ve been misled by all the excess lack of technology and innovation in F1 to the point where a lowly pretentious Prius .. has more technology and innovation in it than the entire F1 grid combined ?
Oh wait . Maybe its not the amazing machinery at all but rather that you were mistakingly impressed by the ‘ Ted Mac Amateur Hour ‘ drivers currently sitting in at least half of the cockpits ?
Seriously Joe … what in the name of Sam Hill are you trying to do with this abject and futile apologetic in the name of F1 ? After all your years of hard work and well earned reputation ? Discredit yourself in one single weeks worth of articles ? Honestly good sir … I’ve only been on board here a year or so [ thanks HtG ! ] … but even in that short time I do believe I’m correct when saying …. you’re a hell of a lot better than that Mr Saward … and you need to get back to your roots … who you really are as well as what you really believe in … rather than continuing down the current ” Alice in Wonderland ” ‘ Rabbit Hole ‘ of F1 apologetics you seem to be on . Because lets face it … the FIA et al …. effed up big time this year … as if last wasn’t bad enough … but truly … this year … big time ! Between flagellating doodlebug exhausts … manufactured drama … pretense of technological evolution ….misapplied and misinterpreted not to mention unfairly applied rules .. ludicrous tires .. etc etc etc
In closing … a quote from a mentor . Mr Steve Jobs ; ” Life is not about following the rules … life is about knowing which rules to follow and then having the courage to break the rest regardless of the consequences ”
Or better yet . One from one of your own [ both a Journalist and a Brit ] The late great Mr G.K. Chesterton ;
” When one genuinely and truly loves a building one will not hesitate to burn the building down when the building in question in its current state is no longer worth saving . Then embarking upon building a new one ” ( also a T Bone Burnett song btw .. ” Burn this Building Down ” )
Which is to say Mr Saward [ I’m using the formal to show respect btw .. not to be insulting ] .. its well and truly time to call the Joker [F1 2014 ] a Joker .. and not the Queen of Hearts
Read my article again and have a think.
It was investigated by motoring journalists, that a Land Rover Discovery, from build through to end of life as scrap, was more economical with the Earth’s total resources, not just fuel, but rare earth minerals, than a Toyota Prius. That was based on every single aspect of the creation and life of each vehicle. I dare say that the same applies to the current F1. I also saw ( I think it was Eng Dallara, a guy who know a little of racecar building ) that he thought F1 very arrogant to use the battery packs at the new size, right next to 100kgs of combustible fuel. He referred to aircraft problems at Boeing, with battery packs, and said, contrary to accepted norms, that in his opinion aircraft engineers knew more about these things than F1 designers. There have recently been journo investigations into Rare Earth mining, mostly conducted in China, where it has been found that the land surrounding such mine operations, and the people both working in them, and living around them, are suffering various health problems, including cancers. This all to provide us in the West with Green Power…..utter….well I guess you can work out what I would have followed utter with!
For the part about F1 engineers not understanding the technology (yet) Damian, I would say that THAT is exactly the purpose (as far as there can ever be a purpose to F1) of the whole package of new rules.
Because when its neigh impossible, but because the must the F1 people DO find a way to make it all work, get lighter, faster, cheaper, cooler, that in turn will help Boeing (and Airbus, did you see their gasturbine / electrical propellers idea?) incorporate these things in turn.
I fully agree that a lot of the stuff only comes from China (not ideal) and the circumstances of how its gained are murky at best. But isn’t that even more reason to let F1 find ways to use it more efficiently, or find other ways to do the same thing?
The “greenwash” argument really does not hold up, because this is not about the environmental footprint of F1 (the teams have been working on that too with the FIA) but about inventing better ways to do hybrid – get more efficiency out of what fuel and electricity
I prefer it when it is about driver against driver, rather than which hoover is better, and which engine can keep going longest on a thimble of fuel. It’s a personal viewpoint thing that’s all.
Congratulations. This is the most patronizing thing I have read on the Internet in ages. Genuinely the tone of this is amazing, the use of formal address, the bizarre mixed metaphors, your sense of entitlement in holding someone to your view of their own standards, your statement of subjective opinion as objective fact.
More please! I bet you write brilliant Amazon reviews and/or stern letters to the Telegraph about immigration.
You definitely need to start a blog. You have a gift.
I thought his post was quite amusing….it’s a free world, to think in at least, so what’s wrong in him having his opinion? I reckon he had probably had a long session on cactus juice before he fired off!
I love the noise the new power trains make! I’ll take a vacuum cleaner over a screaming sewing machine any day. They sound more growly, more gutsy some how than last year. I really enjoyed hearing the tyres squeal pulling away from pitstops, and I really enjoyed not having to translate what the driver said on the car to pit radio. I do think Bernie’s shooting himself in the foot here.
Good blog Joe, very perceptive, but I still think a few extra decibels would add to the spectacle.
So do I
Another nice dispatch, Joe. You are so right, the whole point is the remarkable power units that harvest so much previously untapped energy in the cars, even the power in the exhaust.
That is the for-why on the quieter cars.
As a fan since the mid-1960’s, I was spellbound watching these cars actually running at speed.
F1 has MUCH they can promote here.
And no one with the vision to do it.
The new engines ARE remarkable.
Who will be the first to release a 1 litre car powered by F1 technology?
It constantly astounds me as to shy Porsche or BMW doesn’t return to F1 given the new engine rules – both are downgrading and adding turbos to their road cars.
As far as I can see only Toyota and Mazda are doing anything innovative in the recovered energy stakes; Mazda doesn’t have the cash to go F1 racing but Toyota… new engine supplier please!
The new sound of F1 is perfectly acceptable – in fact to my mind it actually enhances the experience.
I took a “once in a lifetime” trip to Briton for the British GP last year and while I enjoyed the spectacle and race the noise was horrible. It was a earsplitting whine that almost ruined the event fro me. I shelved my tentative plans for going to Austin because of this. (also my wife made me wear headphones while watching the GPs on TV since the car noise gave her a headache. (a unique request from a very mellow person)) Now she actually watched part of the Australian GP with me and was asking questions. I love the new engine noise and am reconsidering going to Austin. I think, once the “all change is bad” ruckus dries down this will be good for the sport in the long run.
Very interesting Joe,
I think all F1 needs for the TV audience is turn the track mics up and keep the talking heads mics the same volume as on the weekend. At the track I’m not sure.
I quite like the growly sound, it just wasn’t micked(?) loud enough.
Oh and can someone PLEASE get Newey to retire already. It scares the hell out of me that Red Bull pulled of a second place. Enough already!! (mind you Ricciardo seems to be a hell of personality. Could I actually cheer for a Red Bull?)
I understand that Bernie is quite effective at divide-and-conquer… and that both the teams and the tracks seem unable to grasp that his use of this one tactic supports his wealth-extraction scheme at the expense of the sport… and that at least two (and maybe more) of the big-money teams have been happy to tacitly support this as long as they obtain direct benefit from it…
But they all know that Bernie’s days are numbered… one way or another…
Do you think that any important combination of them have their eyes focused far enough down the road that they’ve had pow-wow’s about what they’re gonna do When That Day Comes?
And, if so, do you think said pow-wows will have had much space on the agenda for the Good Of The Sport? Or do you expect are they motivated to just continue feathering their own nests while hoping that the golden goose will somehow look after itself?
Am not suggesting that you really know… but am interested in what your guesses might be…
I think there are people who care about the apirt
Do you see the Good of the Sport being an evident priority of any of the big-money teams?
No
When I first heard the cars on Friday afternoon at Albert Park I had a big smile on my face…
Did the cars sound different? Yes, without doubt.
But that did not make them any less impressive.
I may be one of few but listening to the new engines and thinking of all that is going on under the engine covers gave me great pleasure. The MGUs spitting out electricity and all that torque…FP1 was so much fun at turn 1, watching driver after driver slowly adapt and come to terms with what the car could and could not do, what it took to take it smoothly (I lost count of how many times the rear right was locked up on each car…).
It was fabulous to watch and it was fabulous to hear. I venture to suggest, from my one-eyed view, that anyone who didn’t like the new Formula either has an agenda or sat at home and watched from their armchair.
Bravo, F1. For as much as there is wrong, this was done right. Even if a few years too late.
Well said
For years, Mario has been saying that what F1 needed was more power and less aero, such that the drivers’ ability would be both more crucial and more obviously on display.
After this weekend, I wonder if the electric motor’s supply to too much torque, in combination with harder tire compounds, might be a different way of supplying the same benefit.
p.s. How nice to be hearing something other than a steady diet of commentary about the dang tires all weekend long…
Hi Rhys,
Turn 1 on a Friday is also one of my weekend favourites over the years, I stand on the inside so that I get a close view of cars exiting the pits and once in a while they actually stop right there if too many cars are barrelling down on them.
The thing that used to make me keep coming back was the screaming sounds on downshifting into turn 1 or the angry bubbling of engine on idle while slowing to let others pass on the racing line. It was something to behold and it was beautiful. It always amazed me that man can engineer something that revs that high and sounds that mechanically amazing, I wonder about the forces in the gearbox that can allow that sound to emanate without shredding the entire thing to pieces.
This year, I stood in my spot for FP2 and lasted but 10 minutes before deciding to walk out of the circuit in sheer boredom.
No agenda, no armchair, just purely uninspiring.
My experience does not detract for your enjoyment of the identical experience in any way, but my point is that I will not pay for boredom ever again.
Artys.
Bernie has been against these engines from the start. His dislike of them should be no surprise.
In truth, F1 has gone through a number of completely needless, and hugely expensive engine changes over the past quarter century.
Those previous revisions wasted billions of dollars at absolutely no benefit. This latest revision is different. It brings relevant, modern technology to the sport.
Even so, Bernie is right when he states that the cars need to be louder. Allowing a few thousand more RPM and a bit more fuel flow should solve that issue. The teams should be given until mid season to roll out revised, louder, more powerful lumps.
Joe, could you please explain something. On NBC there were lots of references to “thank God there was a safety car, this way nobody will out of petrol”. What would happen at a high speed track such as Monza or Spa assuming that the races were run without the need for a safety car. (I know it is unlikely, but just in case.) On the noise front according to the Telegraph Montezemolo had a lot of complaints re the lack of it. You know the boffins-can they see any changes for the better before people really turn off their TV sets ?
On a lighter note I am assured by “mature” ladies that there was positively no padding in the late, great Rudy Nureyev’s pants.
Fuel has to be managed. Sounds like the NBC people were waffling to fill airtime.
I don’t recall the tenor of NBC’s commentary being “thank God… nobody will run out of petrol”.
What I do recall is:
* Mention that Malaysia is one of the tracks where fuel consumption is more of a concern than it is at some other tracks, and…
* The observation that the safety car laps, combined with the 2nd formation lap, will make things easier for team strategists because the slower laps will have removed much of the pressure to manage fuel supply.
The latter point included Machett giving some approximate figures about fuel-use rates on slow vs. race laps.
I don’t know if they were correct about all of this, but it sounded quite reasonable to me…
Don’t know if Leigh Diffey might have said something inappropriate unreasonable about it… I try to tune out what he says.
Sadly, I did hear him say that Lewis’ and Seb’s misery would be made worse by the good performance of their respective teammates… as if they hoped to see their teammates fail.
As his broadcast partners are Brits, they were too polite to tell him to stop crassly attributing ill-will to those drivers. Will Buxton managed to address it tactfully by asking both drivers about their thoughts on the race, given their race retirement… which resulted in both Lewis and Seb saying how encouraged they were by seeing their teammate doing well and that the task was to now fix the little things that had terminated their own race. Neither seemed to be pouting…
That was a superb blog Mr Saward. Thank You.
Thinking about it, perhaps going down to V6 should have been postponed for about another few years and should have had the current V8s running at even more restricted RPMs but then with a smaller fuel cell giving place to more batteries for even more (longer) KERS power. Would have been much cheaper, would have had the same (or very similar) green-aspect while keeping the show factor, if that’s the viewers’ only desire.
Listening to a dump truck driver that knows how-to-do-it run through 9 or 10 gears in half a block, is magic to me. The diesel exhaust note ramping quickly across it’s narrow range, the clanking drivetrain trying to keep up, and the big turbo leading it all along with it’s off-throttle over-spin between the rapid fire gear changes. Yes, I enjoy mechanical music.
The best sounding sports car engine is the 333SP. It’s noise, note, and gear whine makes it special. It’s like an angry, angry sewing machine.
So yes, I think I will enjoy the turbos.
On the subject of breach of contract, were there any terms that you know of in the agreement to sign over the commercial rights of F1 that could trigger the rights being taken back? It is rather painful watching the sport’s commercial rights holder publicly denigrate the sport he has been contracted to promote.
This is not a public document and I don’t know anyone who admits to having seen it.
On other matters Joe – do you think there is any way the Russian sanctions can affect the GP?
Is their power only to stop Russian individuals, or could they (US/UK etc) advise/prevent tourists or business from going to Russia?
I doubt it.
Tyres… squealing tyres could be heard in the seventies and eighties too! The issue is that every corner of our lives is crumbling to the might of the green eco-fascists and their agenda (along with their PC henchmen) to control every aspect of our llives; F1 is not immune and is quickly buckling to the pressure accordlingly.
Happy torquey torquey happy torque!
Ok,. the sound took half an hour to get used to but after that.. after i stopped listening FOR what was missing and started hearing turbo whistling and tyres screaching.. i was like.. wow.. and the ‘more power than grip’ aspect.. brilliant!.. Drivers having to drive instead of switch to full power and navigate.. i loved it.. more than i thought i would.. so whether they change the sound or not.. irrelevant.. but don’t cover up the new sounds!.. Ok, the Lead Singer’s mic has been turned down but now i hear the drums, the guitars, cellos.. The Music!! .. so in the words of Vettel.. “Yes Baby! Yes!”
Translation service for Ron Walker:
Austrailian: – we are going to sue F1 because the engines are so quiet.
English translation: – we are miffed cos our guy got disqualified.
Translation service for Bernie Ecclestone:
Bernie lingo: – Teams could lose revenue due to the loss of engine noise.
English: – I am busily trying to divert attention away from my dodgy dealings.
I think this is a little bit too simple. Ron Walker and Bernie alwasy work hand-in-glove. They have done for as long as I have been following their activities and even their supposed spats and just ways to promote the Melbourne event. This is a rather spurious attempt to try to get promoters to rise up against the FIA, which is never going to happen. Bernie is pissed off that the FIA stuck by the desire to have new engines. I think it is more to do with that than any real fears about the noise. Anyway, it makes no sense for the promoter of the championship (in name if not in reality) to talk it down…
Thanks for taking the time to reply Joe. Clearly I bow to your superior knowledge.
What you say of the race promoters reminds me of Pink Floyd’s sheep – ‘one day we’ll rise up… and then we’ll make the buggers eyes water’… The dogs had better watch out (not).
For the record, I loved watching (on TV) the new breed of F1 cars. The excess of torque over grip is great to see. I wonder how long it will be before grip catches up? Never I hope. Formula Gilles!!
I’ll reserve judgment on the noise until I get to Silverstone.
I am a great supporter of the new power units and, whilst I too would welcome a few more decibels, I do not want us to return to the bad old days when you had to wear ear plugs and turn your head aside to stop your ears from taking a direct full sound blast from approaching F1 cars when trackside.
On British radio yesterday Ron Dennis suggested the noise could be increased through an increase in the rev limit, but that that would require more fuel and hence a car redesign. On the same programme Christian Horner said his pit crew had christened the new power units “the angry hair dryer”:-)
Excellent to see that your prediction, Joe, of 12 finishers in Melbourne was comfortably exceeded, as I too had feared worse after the final test.
Not a great time of late though for the FIA in some other respects after forcing F1 teams to use fuel flow meters which are as yet not accurate enough (well, every team bar one that is), trying to charge you in excess of $40,000 for your media season pass before rightly backing down and trying to take your privileged pre-race grid access off you on the grounds of health and safety before again backing down. At least common sense prevailed re the media issues and let’s hope the standard fuel flow meters can be improved before further Red Bull type situations arise involving other teams.
$40,000 for an annual media pass????????? Well, I shouldn’t be surprised I guess, as for Bernie, Jean & Co, it’s All About The Money!
“I do not want us to return to the bad old days when you had to wear ear plugs and turn your head aside to stop your ears from taking a direct full sound blast from approaching F1 cars when trackside.”
I suspect you may be in a minority. There were no criticisms or complaints of engine noise in the “bad” old days… not from the purists anyway 😉
As your article is about the running of F1 ……………. I thought you may have commented on Norway’s wealth fund buying $1.6 Bill shares in F1 before Singapore CVC Float …….
The fund is now being investigated but can only buy a stake in an unlisted company if it plans an initial public offering. After the deal was made, a planned Formula One IPO was cancelled. Now we really understand the sham of Singapore.
We are shocked !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not !
It just seems like a bigger and bigger steal with CVC not really running F1 just stealing as much as possible … if only a White Knight was to start his own series after Bernie goes then a new Series would be endorsed by all — as really CVC runs nothing.
I have written about it.
Hang on, the Aussie fans had the V8 Supercar support races to watch. Surely all the real engine noise (and racing) they need?
As an Aussie who grew up within 1km of Mt Panorama, the v8s are decibel limited- they no longer cause one’s chest cavity to vibrate as they down change before Murray’s Corner…. as to (real)”racing”- v8 supercars have not had real racing for over a decade. The body shells do not correspond to the road car equivalents, the Ford and Holden v8s have nothing to do with the engines in the road cars, the Nissan and Volvo which race have neither v8s or rear wheel drive available on the road cars- basically a travesty of what was once a production based formula which required 200 identical road cars to be sold in Australia before a vehicle could be homologated to race.
Yes, I am an old fart, but, I DO like some relevance to the cars we drive- and think it wonderful that the new f1 powerplants will contribute to future road cars.
Cheers
Markr
“I am a great supporter of the new power units and, whilst I too would welcome a few more decibels, I do not want us to return to the bad old days when you had to wear ear plugs and turn your head aside to stop your ears from taking a direct full sound blast from approaching F1 cars when trackside.”
I think Anti Lag could help a lot, as anyone who has watched a Rallycross event life can assure, as it turns a rather tame sounding inline four into something special. They invented it last year to WTCC just because of that reason. But also this one would need the increased consumption of fuel…and would release the MGU-K of one of its duties.
Or they use optic effects like the underbodies with magnesium parts which throwed out sparks in the 80`s??
….I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Bernie put Ron Walker up to it. They are good mates after all….
Re the extra points issue. Why not award points for best sounding car? Lol
Depends on the lady.
This is the first article about the new sound of F1 that I’ve agreed with. Previous generations of F1 engines were insanely loud, which caused problems for both new and existing circuits, and put as many people off attending a GP as it attracted. I’m much more inclined to attend a GP now that I should be able to hear the commentary, and discuss the race with the people around me without my ears ringing for hours afterwards.
That’s the message that the sport should be promoting, surely? That F1 is now greener, more relevant to road cars, and more spectator friendly?
Plus, isn’t any sound a car produces just wasted energy?
It was the screaming V12’s that got my attention many years ago, but the noise has become less important as i learned the finer points of motorsport and F1. But it seems to me that many of us were first drawn to F1 because of the adrenalin-producing noise. That seems so trivial. However, what is F1 doing to attract new, young fans? Nothing, it seems. The noise was a happy accident, now gone. It will be interesting to see the improvisations that result from this noise controversy, although I rather like the new power train. Part of the fun with F1 is seeing rich people at their angry, snakebit, nervous, and manipulative best.
Hi Joe,
Here is a humorous fix up of the F1 TV Intro with the “new” engine sounds. If it weren’t so depressing true it would be funny. It’s a good point though, they are still running proper F1 engine noise in their false advertising TV intro.
Artys