I suppose I should preface this article by saying that I rather like Sebastian Vettel, or at least I think I do. If I don’t do that, I fear that German fans will soon be bristling with nationalistic hurt, yelling “Achtung Englander” and rushing off to look for grandad’s pistol. So I think it is best to say that I have nothing against Germans, and I would say the same thing if Seb came from Rothenberg, Rotterdam, Rottingdean or Romford…. Having lived in Europe for 20-odd years I am rather more European in outlook than some of my generation and my opinions are not based on some antiquated view that the English and the Germans like taking potshots at one another.
I think Sebastian is an exceptional racing driver and he has shown on occasion that he has quite considerable intellect as well. It’s hard to really know more than that because these days drivers are rarely allowed out of captivity to talk to the media. There is no such thing as a one-to-one interview and the best one can ever hope for is the occasional al fresco chat in the paddock and they only really happen when you have known a driver personally from very early in his career. I have always felt that a lot of F1 drivers would greatly benefit from talking to the media more because the scribblers – oddly, given the reputation of the evil press – are one of the few groups in F1 where one can find feet still attached to the ground. The mechanics are good for that too, and the motor home folk, but I guess we are all seen as servants to the stars and not people worthy to see the real men behind the masks. Dealing with real human beings rather than plastic Action Men figures spouting out stock answers is so much more enjoyable – and sadly rare. And that’s what I like about Vettel because he tries to give proper intelligent answers to questions, even if the people around him will not let the media get close.
What I don’t like at the moment is his complaining about the new Formula 1 cars, while failing to back up his arguments with any sensible justifications. Yes, I get it that he wants to drive cars with 1000 horsepower, but he wasn’t doing that last year and we did not hear him whining about winning nine consecutive races… Did we? In any case, who wants to invest in cars with 1000 horsepower? You cannot sell them because only bling-encrusted squillionaires can afford them and even they get bored with their toys because they have to keep stopping to refuel the damned things.
Vettel talks of wanting a sport that is “loud and dangerous”, but one cannot blame the new rules for safety improvements. The sport has been wildly safe for the last 20 years. There is a reason for that: in the world of the Nanny State, one cannot kill people live on TV. You are still allowed to die climbing mountains, but only if it is not on live TV. There were solid commercial and strategic reasons why the sport became safer on the late 1990s, beyond the obvious humanitarian campaign.
Vettel says he wants to drive fast cars but he seems to have missed the fact that the cars today are faster in a straight line than they were last year. He forgets also that last year’s cars -which he liked – were just as restricted as those today and perhaps more so given the lack of engine development. They had much the same horsepower and they did similar lap times.
I will give Sebastian the point about noise. The cars are quieter this year, but I am still to be convinced that this is a bad thing. F1 is not just about noise. In any case, the sound can be improved a little without needing to send people home with their ears bleeding.
So what is actually wrong with F1, apart from it having a dodgy reputation because of some rather “wide boy” deal-making, a few really sleazy-looking people, some poor political decisions about where the sport goes racing and an unhealthy desire of the money men to put the sport behind paywalls? The biggest problem for me is the almost drug addict-like dependence on cash that the teams have, a habit which they clearly cannot support for much longer. I also don’t like the fact that the playing field is not at all level with big teams getting big pay-offs that should not exist.
There are a few drivers who have secured their drives with cash but every one of them has a decent record in the junior formulae, which is not something one could have said 10 years ago.
In truth, I don’t think there’s much wrong with F1 that a new broom could not fix pretty rapidly.
I hope to see Sebastian challenging for victory soon, but I do find it interesting that he seems to be having trouble beating his own team-mate. Maybe Mark Webber was a more valuable member of the team than Vettel would like to remember. In any case, I have a fairly simple view of the sport. If someone is not enjoying it, there is nothing to stop them walking out of the paddock – as Niki Lauda famously did way back when – there is a world out there brimming with things for a wealthy twentysomething person to do with his time and money.
If he doesn’t like the rules, he could even try to become the FIA President and get them changed…
joeblogsf1 
Great answer to Vettel.
Vettel is still very young and understandably he’s upset after being rebuked by the FIA for comments that I believe were honestly spoken if somewhat naive for a multiple world champion – the fact that his futher comments are the product of headstrong ill-temper are clear precisely because he can’t back them up with sensible justification. Its also clear to me that luck has been a major factor in making his new teammate seem faster than him to date, when clearly Vettel has been wrong-footed on setup at least twice both by car problems and conditions and Ricciardo still has nothing to prove.
I also think Red Bull were giving him mixed messages at the start of the season to compensate for the issues they had with the car and this has come across through Vettel as a loathing for the new regulations – I bet if his car was working as well as well as the Mercedes, he’d be fine. Having followed the sport for over forty years, I love the new regulations, but I do think you’re wrong about the noise. Its as much a part of the sport as grass pitches are in football.
Its not luck Ricciardo is beating him, Vettel has the experience and the engineers to help him set up the car Daniel just seems to be dealing with it better possibly due to him having the best car he’s ever driven compared to Vettel who is used to having one of the best cars and is struggling with his red bull. His car is working as well as the Mercedes its just not as fast in a straight line but Red Bull are 2nd in constructors car can’t be that bad if its best of the rest. to be honest I’ve stopped noticing the engine noise as much as I did at start of season. I think you are right about the age and red bull advice he’s possibly been given though
I think Vettel is having a challenge un-learning his Blown-Diffuser driving style that he perfected over the last few years. This has been made worse by the fact that the Red Bull did not show much promise in testing, nor did it give him many opportunities to get “up to speed” before the season got underway. Meanwhile, Dan Riccardo does not have the same issue of having to “unlearn” a driving style to the same extent that Vettel is. I think Seb will get it, eventually. I hope he does, personally. While I do not like watching my driver waltz away with the prize, I do like to see him win. Luckily, his troubled start is giving Daniel a chance to show his talent.
Maybe in a few seasons time it will become clearer what Fernando said about Seb being critically acclaimed or debunked for his 4 consecutive Championships in what was easily the best car for that period. Look how Ron Dennis beats himself up every morning when he realises what he would have had and won by now had he kept Fernando in 2007. This guy has over-acieved every season since 2010 and dragged the 3rd or 4th fastest car over the line to end up runner-up in 3 of the last 4 Championships!!!
I suspect that the four numbers after the month on his passport are to blame. He’s grown up constantly winning and therefore perhaps not done very much growing up at all. For the time being, he’s only a good ambassador for the sport when he’s winning – give him a few years and I suspect he’ll become a good one even when he’s not.
Yes, and he learned from last year that complaining to the media resulted in a mid-season change in tyre regs that allowed him to run away with the WDC. So unsurprisingly he would like something similar to happen again, and is trying his luck.
So, what Joe said about safety and not being able to kill people on live TV… when tyres were giving up at Silverstone, and in a couple of cases put drivers following closely behind in significant danger, that wasn’t something that needed addressing? Even though after that race, pretty much everyone but Force India (and maybe Lotus?) were saying changes had to be made? Alonso had a small fraction of a second to react to I think it was Perez’s tyre failure and fortunately he turned the wheel the right way. If he hadn’t, he could very well have received a tyre carcass to the head at high speed. Would you be whining about Vettel’s tyre complaints if that had happened?
I believe that the subsequent investigation found all the teams with problems in that race were running tyres the wrong way round and/or beyond Pirellis stated maximum camber. Coupled with a “sharp” kerb. Red Bull used that to bully Pirelli into the change because they had the advantage on the old rubber.
hear hear cmcgoo
Watch out Joe, Deitrich and Helmut are marshalling their forces on the French border for yet another Franco-Prussian-English show down. 🙂
He does tend to give thoughtful answers… provided the question is not about one of his ethical lapses, in which case his absurd answers suggest he is not practiced enough at lying…
As for the current car, I’ve been pleasantly surprised to hear him freely admit that his teammate is just plain faster. Good marks for that…
We’ll never know, but I wonder how Webber would be doing in a car that wasn’t tailored for Seb. Mark did get slower the more Newey had a chance to adapt the car to Vettel. It will be interesting to see if the same thing happens to Ricciardo as time goes on…
I wish someone would ask Seb which attributes of the current car appear to be better suited to Ricciardo than to him… and how Seb’s ideal car might differ from those of his current and previous teammates… he might give a proper answer… or he might just provide vague mumble mumble… either way, I would like to hear what he says…
At this point, one thing seems clear: Alonzo is the best of all of them at getting over himself and becoming the guy the car needs him to be… rather Mario-like in that respect…
Maybe the car is actually tailored to Riccardo cuz Seb’s on the way to Ferrari?
Why?
Oh you know, German driver + struggling Ferrari = Gold! 😉
I’m always a bit sceptical when it comes to cars being tailored to a certain driver, I think teams just make the fastest car they can and hope the drivers can get the most out of it.
F1 has become the victim of its own success.
I’m not entirely sure what exactly I mean by this, but I have this distinct feeling.
No, F1 is the victim of greedy people.
F1 is a victim of the march (no pun intended) of technology, which drives performance but at the same time drives cost. The state of the art in F1, i.e. technology, requires the + $200 million budgets. One can not put the technology genie back in the bottle other than through micro-regulation or some sort of cost-cap.
“Micro-regulation” is exactly what’s happening. F1 is a victim of Green fascism, and the greedy people to whom Joe refers, are mainly lawyers – or at least those with access to lawyers
Do you know something we don’t know, Joe? Is something really wrong? Are TV audiences down? Fewer people at the gate? Teams can’t get sponsorship? All I’ve been hearing is how great the technology is and that I should go away. At least Vettel has the stature to speak out, Webber just walked off. I’ve stopped watching the lap counter tick down, praying for the Good Pastor to bring us another safety car. May as well write this season off; Mercedes worked long and hard for its championships, and bei Lauda zey are goink to get it.
I think you are missing the point
Joe, why start the article with a re-run of a Dad´s Army scene?
I thought you were trying to distance yourself from that kind of thinking.
I presume you underwent a humour bypass operation recently. Get well soon.
It’s called a “humourectomy”, a well known glasweegen saying, normally quoted to someone with a limited ability for “banter”. eg “Yer banters crap, you had a humourectomy or suhen?”.
“Aye, yer patter wid gie mi the boak.”..
I am sure that means something to someone but I will just smile and nod politely, having no idea at all what you are saying.
you need to drink a bottle of whisky to be able to tuni into that sort of talk..
I’ll leave that to others…
I understand, creative, cutting-edge humour way above my level! Apologies.
My point (you didn´t engage) is that I thought the purpose of your opening was to distance yourself from casual Sun reader anti-Germanism. In that context, apart from being an ancient cliché, the Captain Hurricane stuff makes no sense.
There was no purpose to it except it being a humorous way to say I am not anti-German.
Even my dear recently departed father (ex Lancaster pilot), his brother, one of the few survivors of the HMS Nabob, never had a hate on for the Germans – both telling me they had a job to do – ‘politics was for politicians – we worried about our own behinds’. Too many people get caught up in rhetoric and emotions best left in the past. When my father and uncle used to attend Nov 11th ceremonials – it was to remember their mates whom had passed – not make political points against the grandchildren of people they fought against. I got exactly what you were saying Joe – surprises me that some people don’t get it or see the ‘wink’ when you write.
I foremost praise Vettel for voicing his opinion. You can agree or disagree, but at least he’s raising the argument. Something MSC has never done. And so little other drivers do. Criticizing him word for word is exactly the reason why they don’t IMO.
Tosh. They don’t because they are frightened their team and sponsors will not like it.
Also, I am fairly certain MSC voiced his opinion in places where it had the most effect and the least amount of harm to him (i.e. being grown up about it). Not the least in his role as GPDA president.
If Sebby wants ’em noisier let’s go back to the 5L normally aspirated V-8 of 20 or thirty years ago … Oh, wait, that was F5000, wasn’t it? Cheap, though – so that would answer the $$$ quibbles.
And get the big American manufacturers in. Win win…..:-)
Vettel with that ramblings about “how bad is it today” sound like teenager boy who was dumped by a girl, and now this boy is mad on the whole world for that. If he doesn’t like the fact that Daniel can perform better than him in this car – maybe he should pay more attention to this car and its aspects?
And if he wants “loud, dangerous and 1000+ hp”, he can always go and try Top Fuel dragster. They’re loud, they’re dangerous, and they have 10000 hp engines.
I’m very surprised to learn that off-record chats with the drivers is RARE. I really thought casual conversation was commonplace between journos and drivers / teamsters.
Purely subjective: remarkable that Seb is more articulate in English than many English speaking F1 personnel, including drivers. Except for Jensen, who is a nice articulate young englishman, and does enough ‘stock answer’ interviews…
Seb can be almost as forthright as Kimi, is far less politically devious in his answers than Alonso, is far more credible as an adult than Hamilton or Rosberg. He is definitely more charismatic than Hulk.
I guess if I was a journo Seb would be the one I would home in on for a chat.
On articulacy in English: At the prize ceremony for the 125 and 250 bike world championships a few years ago, a rider listened to questions from English and Spanish TV presenters, and replied in French and Italian. Those bikers aren’t as daft as they sometimes appear…
Seb’s problem is last years car increased downforce when he put his foot down and this years car just wheel spins
Bing! Simply needs to re-define his technique.
I don’t understand the negativity by some ‘fans’ regarding Vettel. I have always found him very personable and I am very British and will always support’our boys’ but he’s good for the sport. I think there is a lot of downright envy.
The point of the story is HIS negativity!
Perhaps the perception of the reader is the blogger’s negativity? Let me guess, snarky reply #7, I missed the point?
You would not recognise positive thinking if it hit you on the head. Snarky enough for you?
“If dynamite was brains, etc, etc…..”
There must be a cost cap. And savings must not be made by practice cuts. I gather the rich teams fear a zero-sum slippery slope; that if costs are capped they will be capped at a very low level and it will become a spec or customer series. That’s not the case. F1 will always be a rich team and manufacturer’s sport; it’s just that some of the slightly less rich teams should have a shot at the occasional victory. It’s obvious and it’d the only way for F1 to be healthy long term.
Joe
No offence, but you and much of the F1 media are guilty of the most absurd self preservation groupthink on this topic….. I get it, you want to keep living off this sport and I envy your wonderful life, but the reality is, F1 is meant to be about racing and on the edge and at the moment, it is about racing to a fuel target. The exception, Bahrain only gave us a small fraction of the race as a race due to a safety car artificially inflating the amount if fuel available to put on a spectacle.
The noise is beyond laughable, while it is ok on a straight, from the stands around corners, it is like watching go karts, you can’t hear them approach and feel embarrassed at the fuel save spluttering acceleration from the corners.
The move to v6 is not a bad thing, we all get the incredible enhancements, but in reality if this fuel save silent faux race charade continues, there will soon be no one at the tracks. I fear a riot at monza and possibly Spain when the fans are robbed of their f1 in coming weeks. For the first time in 4 years I haven’t rebooked my next years Melbourne tickets the week they went on sale… Not sure if I will go, it will take a drastic improvement in ‘genuine’ racing for me to go.
So if you guys in the f1 press really want to have a long term career on the circuit, you need to provide some constructive direction about how f1 can retain these new technologies, but bring back the racing, eg let them carry as much fuel and burn as much as they want and start talking about how the noise might be partially brought back. I’m sure you guys can do better than me on that, but that’s what I want to read about. Time to extract your collective heads from the sand.
Ps love your work, but can’t stand you and your fellow writers repetitive attacks on anyone who dares criticise the gravy train. Eg Vettel.
Offence taken. I don’t think I have ever read some much misdirected and fuzzy thinking in so few words. The key to the success of F1 is not the technology. It is the show. Technology is part of that but it is not the be all and end all. The key to the commercial success of F1 is the media: both the written word and the TV. Without the story being told there would be no story and motor racing would go back to being as relevant and popular as round the world yacht racing or carriage driving. Without the media, the sport dies.
The intelligent media understands only too well that the sport is about racing because that is what maintains interest and pays the bills. It helps if we have some characters to help us paint exotic pictures, but these days too much of that potential is locked up by PR people who have no clue about what the sport is all about.
The problem that cannot be avoided is the Pandora’s Box of aerodynamics which means that as the cars get more efficient so overtaking becomes more difficult and the more computers are employed the more difficult it is for the driver to make a difference. Some very brilliant minds have worked hard to find the answers but silly old farts always complain that it is not like it used to be and simply don’t get it. How ever the did the sport survive the last turbo era if noise was so important? The wow factor and the buccaneering spirit of the drivers are what matter. The modern generation don’t give a toss about noise. They are the ones we have to chase after because the current audience is dying of old age. Thus we have to go after things that interest them – and a lot noise from mechanical dinosaurs making a load of noise and drinking fuel is not the right answer. If it was drag racing would be huge. It’s not…
“How ever the did the sport survive the last turbo era if noise was so important? The wow factor and the buccaneering spirit of the drivers are what matter.”
Or perhaps the image of a 2014 car stepping out, puffing a few blue smoke trails from the rear tyres? I think that F1 is getting there, but not yet.
Well after four race are you surprised?
Drag Racing is a niche market very popular in USA and Australia not so much in Europe.
Watching a Top Fuel Pass @ 4 seconds 530 kph is earth shattering experience it’s exciting and exhilarating.
The show so to speak goes on for several hours,in the paddock you get to see feel and interact with the teams drivers and machinery.
There is a lot to like about drag racing, well I am biased a little.
I don’t doubt it, but the point is that it is tiny in comparison to F1.
UK journalist Nigel Roebuck received some stick from Vettel fans following criticism by NR in recent articles. Nowadays, Nigel Roebuck mostly writes about F1 from an armchair perspective. I’m not suggesting that Roebuck does not do any homework, but he has served his time attending every race and examining every technical detail. Roebuck writes about the big picture, plucking nuggets from his records which help us to understand where F1 is today.
It’s the history knowledge which makes Nigel Roebuck a good commenter on Vettel. After all, Roebuck was a big fan of Vettel in the Toro Rosso years, writing up the anecdotes which convinced readers of the English language press that Sebastian is a good bloke. Roebuck understands how the body language of a young German might fail to impress an international audience.
If other writers are given a hard time after criticising Vettel, they are in good company.
We might assume that Sebastian Vettel is in the second half of the beginning of his F1 career. In the first half of the beginning, Sebastian was modest, funny and self-deprecating. Today he isn’t. Fernando Alonzo went through a similar phase, which didn’t work out well for his reputation. And then Alonzo found himself again, smart on and off the track.
By the way, is it right to assume that test period predictions of an unreliable F1 season are unfounded? Or do the power unit developers have enough scope to increase torque (if not horsepower) beyond expectations of chassis designers?
NR is to my mind, one of the great motorsport journos, in the same bracket as DSJ and some others I could mention. However, like most of us he does tend to a bit of bias at times, and he does also give Vettel some stick, which is not always fair in my view. He has always been like this. Going back the likes of Senna, Schumacher ( M&R), and some other folk too. He does have his blind spots, and Prost was always one of those, while some other like Piquet & Mansell got sold a tad short. Having said that, in general, the guy does have a lot of commonsense to say as well.
I think it should be said that we don’t seen Nigel very often these days.
Why?
When you’re his age, will the paddock see much of you? I wouldn’t dismiss Nigel’s opinions so readily.
I have known Nigel for 30 years and I don’t believe he has ever done all the races in a season. I’m not dismissing his opinions, just pointing out some realities to those who don’t know these things.
I suspect that I will still be doing all of them until I drop dead – because I like doing it.
I have known Nigel for 30 years and I don’t believe he has ever done all the races in a season.
Wow, that’s quite amazing, considering he used to do the write-ups of all the races for Autosport! Shades of Murray Walker’s “Well we can’t quite see the pitlane from our position here…” (in Television Centre). 🙂
I did know that he skipped the ’98 Argentine Grand Prix because he ended up watching it on ITV for the first time, like the rest of us poor sods had to do back then, and wrote a wonderful column denouncing the amount of ads he’d had to put up with, at a time when nobody else in a Haymarket publication would say a bad word about them, coincidentally after ITV Sport started sponsoring F1 Racing magazine.
Anyway, so given that, I thought that him missing a race was a very rare thing indeed… but apparently not so… most interesting, thank you.
In the old days Jeff Hutch did the long haul flyaways. There may have been c purple of years when NSR did all the races but he picks and chooses. Good for him for getting such a position.
In the past it seemed that NR did all the races, often with DSJ as his partner in crime, and it also seemed the case that he was particular to do the right races, the historic ones and those such as Watkin’s Glen, where I think he made a habit of seeing some US racing also, other than the GP. If he has laid back a bit, I’m not surprised, given that he has other things to do nowadays. His reports were always good, amongst the best, as was his column, and still is too! I also agree about your ITV comment, and the same applies to the Sky link with what used to be my favorite weekly motorsport mag, very sad too as it now has a bias that it didn’t have imho…and it has dumbed down hugely in the last 3-4 years as well.
I am simply telling you what I have seen in the last 30 years working with him. Nigel started writing F1 reports in 1971 but I don’t think he did all the races at that time because some were so far flung and very expensive for the magazine. He started out with an American magazine I believe and then joined Competition Car and I believe that he also spent time doing PR for the Embassy Hill team at one point. He only joined Autosport in 1977, when Peter Lyons decided he had had enough after four seasons (1973-1976). Pete had followed in the footsteps of Gregor Grant, Simon Taylor and Patrick McNally. What tended to happen in the 1970s and early 1980s was that the flyways were done by freelances such as Jeff Hutchinson. That remained much the same even after I joined the magazine in 1983. I think it finally died out in the Mansell era when Nigel and I began going to all the races. That would have been around 1988. He would write the race report and his column and I would write qualifying, the news, features and so on. That went on until I left in 1993. In that period I am pretty sure he did all the races because otherwise I would have been writing race reports and I don’t remember doing that. It changed after that – although to be honest I did not follow it much. They changed the format of the reports and he started missing events that he did not like. Ever since they banned smoking on flights NSR has been less happy about travelling! These days we don’t see him that much. I have yet to see him this year, but I expect he will be in Spain.
Well he does intimate that in some articles now and again. But that said, he is a great motorsport writer and enthusiast I don’t always agree with some of his ponderings, but the majority of them are sound and just commonsense really.
He used to be my second favourite F1 journalist after Joe. However I gave up reading him when his Autosport column became more of a Daily Mail editorial than a motor-racing column, despite what I suspect were his editor’s increasingly futile attempts to get him to rein it in. A year or two after that he decamped to Motorsport, which I suspect was probably happier for everyone all round. 🙂
And booom. And I agree.
There seem to be 2 kind of journalism in F1; the access driven kind where the press are basically stenographers for the teams, and the “me too”, copy cat type that just repeat the he said, she said stories from other sources. There’s hardly anyone that does any kind of investigative journalism that would risk upsetting anyone important. Presumably because doing so would mean no more access. I agree it would be nice to hear more unscripted thoughts from the drivers. Sometimes though, I suspect that F1 is deliberately dumbed down by the media, and the narratives kept simple and easy for the casual fan to understand because that’s thought to be good for the business. A lot of people would be put off if they understood how many factors decide the success of a driver other than his driving ability.
I don’t think journalists dumb things down. I think newspapers ask for simple story lines. Entirely different.
So much has been written on the subject of noise. I agre with Sebastian on this one. Let me ask you all something. Have you ever driven a Tesla “sportscar”? Yes it’s fast but silent…..there’s no pleaseure in it whatsoever. Only a deaf person would love it. No disrespect to the deaf.
2014 F1 cars are not anwhere near as quiet as a Tesla, but the diference in sound from last year is huge, and I expect from the cockpit it’s horrible.
A classic view of the older generation of F1 fans.
But that’s just it. We need to cater to the older fans too right? I finally agree with Bernie on something! Bring back then noise.
What will be interesting is the following for Formula E. That WILL be silent, save for some electric whine and tire squealing….ZZZZZZZzzzzzz
What statistical evidence do you have which demonstrates that a classic F1 sound, e.g. normally aspirated V8-12, is only appealing to “old fans” and is un-appealing to the “younger generation”?
As an aside, comparing the 1,100 HP, wide-tire, big winged monsters of the 1980s turbo era with the phallic-nosed, skinny-tyred, snowplow-winged, lawn mower sound cars of today is disingenuous if not ridiculous.
Do you have statistical evidence to back up your second paragraph? No.
“Do you like this new Formula One?”
83% No, 17% Yes
Ferrari F1 survey.
Even adjusting this survey for its flawed approach (not blind, opt-in), and the fact that it is likely skewed due to Ferrari’s mediocre performance, it is clear that a majority of fans are not pleased with this “new” Formula One. Does this mean those people liked the “old” Formula One, including the 1980s turbo era? The survey does not ask that, but the implication is obvious.
I do not trust that survey
Common sense may direct you in correcting the survey somewhat, but some serious thinking should lead you to ignore the survey altogether as irrelevant, since completely and utterly non-scientific.
One shouldn’t “adjust” by some % a study that was bogus from the start (although I understand your urge to do so, it’s just not a good idea).
Whomever voted on that “study” only shows Montezemolo is able to rally up people that have no wish for independant thinking.
Isn’t that basically saying “Hey Ferrari fans, do you like your team failing to meet the challenges in this new era?” 83% No, 17% Yes. Tbh knowing Ferrari fans I am surprised it was not 100% / 0% 😉
Gary the Ferrari survey I and many others did had the pro new formula side ahead. They fudged the results.
Wow! Great post Joe+everyone! At last, we can all talk about the Elephant in the Dining Room…and without being trolled as an Old Fart or told to Go Elsewhere for your racing…strangely some of us have been doing that for decades…it’s called being a motorsport enthusiast!
Now, moving on, where to begin eh? Well, let’s start with Vettel. There is no doubt whatsoever that he is a great driver, anyone who thinks it’s just the car conveniently forgets that it has always been the case that the best drivers end up in the best cars, and that the best cars win races,simples! Yes he has an ego, what driver does not, but he also gives thoughtful replies to questions ( even if some Journos don’t agree with his views ), and he also gives honest replies, hence his call that Ricciardo is currently doing a better job with the RB. Yes, he could sometimes be less selfish, but he comes from a generation of drivers who grew up being continually told to be selfish, or they wouldn’t get anywhere, and to be fair, his selfish stances are not regular.
Then there is the problem of what’s wrong with F1. Well, again that is relatively simple. People say, as Joe does, that one must be Green to attract young fans, but that’s not really true. One will attract some young people who are big on tree hugging, but I’ve two lads in their early 20’s, who have watched on tv and at events since they were 7-8, and they don’t have any interest in Green F1, they love the old F1 from the tapes I have of the 70’s/80’s and early 90’s. And I don’t think they are the only 20 something young folk who feel that way.
F1 went wrong by becoming elitist, and many journos did not complain then, and are only starting to now, that the fans became secondary for BCE & the Teams, to the MONEY, which became their God. True, we’d probably all have acted similar if someone started chucking £millions at us for no apparently good reason other than they’d been told that our business would increase their businesses by Squillions, as our business was being watched by 600-700million people every fortnight ( a figure that I always thought absurd as a matter of fact as it is a guesstimate based on a base figure of contacted individuals rather than a number that can be verified by actual clocking up each person watching ), anyhow, I would like to think that if I had been in that position, I might have, at some point before now, started to feel bad about how the fans were being treated. At present, I feel that the small teams are not that bothered about us still, but more upset that they may not be around to continue a semi gilded existence because there is now not enough money to go round….shows they are not all super brains as the rest of us worked this particular point out in 2008.
Then, with the background of this money shortage, which everyone knew about, what happens, totally new rules that double the costs of competing….hardly sensible eh?
To solve the problem, one needs the racing to be better than it is. Not artificial, nor completely dominated by one team or another, but to be a more level playing field. That won’t happen if it is an Arms Race as it is at present, nor will it attract fans unless the cost of going to a race tumbles to a sensible figure, and the programme of events expands to include more racing on the day and over the weekend.Joe recently made a comment about how he had not had to buy a race ticket for 25 years or so. That is precisely the reason why motorsport journos don’t understand why F1 is losing interest to many of us. It is simply way too expensive to justify going along to watch,, on a cost/benefit analysis. The teams also don’t understand this point, as the participants have so much money they can no longer relate to ordinary race fans.
To be fair, the concept of the new rules, more power, less grip, is where it should be going, but the execution by means of absurdly expensive power units, together with the other bad idea of fuel flow control, is not good for the fans. We want to see flat out racing, from flag to flag, pitstops should only be needed if someone has a puncture, but not as part of the show, as it interrupts the flow and does little or nothing to add to it.
Finally, the series must open it’s doors to the fans, who should get proper access and viewing along with easily available information to see and hear during the race. Both during the weekend and after the race, fans should be able to see and speak to the drivers, and get autographs, pictures and so on. Also, the drivers and teams should dispense with the PR Spinners, and just be allowed to speak plainly and truthfully to the media. We all know what JB wants to say when his car is so painfully slow, we don’t want to be subjected to BS instead! And the big boost for viewing? Just put it back on terrestrial tv!
You miss a guy point. Elitism sells…
Sad but true. Make something less accessible/more expensive and people immediately rate it higher. Those that had free access before are almost always a minority, both on the financial (revenue) side as on the attendance side. Those that do not fall into this trap of exclusivity are outnumbered by far I’m afraid.
So did the Emperor’s New Clothes…but in that case only once. In the case of F1 Bernie used the Elite/Glam/OK Mag type of thing for over 20 years, but it has at last, worn thin, and there is nothing beneath the Glam top coat to see beneath, except a fading, overly expensive, and under exciting series, filled with overly wealthy, mostly unattractive characters, the majority of whom are entirely disassociated from the fans and from reality. If it does not change properly, and improve, it will stagnate and die out. The current money crisis that the small teams are ranting about, isn’t anything new, if they are so smart, they should have done something about this in 2008, it’s a bit rich to moan now.
I think you will find that the new teams were promised tiny budgets, which is why they came in.
Then, like most, who deal with Bernie, they should have read the small print…..
Ask any school child what engine is in what car – they couldn’t tell you or care. We all new every engine in every car ( I’m 54), it was important to us. You rarely hear car manufacturers talking engines unless they are hybrids these days, so that’s what kids are into.
I do think the new F1 engines should be louder because they actually sound different from each other from what I can tell, especially the Ferrari. The old engines were just too loud- ridiculous .
I have driven a Tesla S and I found it a seriously good time. Wickedly fast and great handling. While trying to tame the beast and run to my limits, I seriously did not even notice the lack of sound as the scenery was moving past so damn quick.
If I had taken my kids to a race last year, my wife would have been so appalled by the noise that they would never have gone again. I am watching and waiting this year to see if it’s safe to get the next gen involved.
The noise is a by product of F1 racing, not a direct engineered product. To think that noise alone is what matters in this day and age is a very narrow minded view in my opinion. And I am quite happy to attend my next F1 race without the fear of permanent hearing loss. The fact that todays F1 cars cover the same distance in the same time using +- 30% less fuel is extraordinary. That should be looked at as well…
JON: Counterpoint. I am friends with a Porsche Canada executive who has driven the 918. He told me he staggered out of the car after he had his chance at a press day event in Germany. Even in all electric mode he said he was stunned at the performance. In ‘race mode’ (adding in the V10) with full electric output on top – it was simply beyond anything he had ever experienced and this from a guy who has driven Carrera GT’s (V10’s) and GT3’s. The point being: that there can still be ‘fun’ and ‘performance’ in hybrids along with being ‘green’. We are entering an era where maybe we CAN have both. I think this is unbelievable and no matter who is responsible for this (some say Governments, other say manufacturers – the rest say environmentalists) I think it is fabulous. I’m on the fence at all electric – it does have it’s place in the motoring world – it’s just that it’s not the sound that it is the issue with me but the lack of range in -20C with the cabin heat on! In my area in February – that range is about 20kms! But a hybrid – now your talking and one of the reasons why I’m enjoying F1 this season, (and WEC). Call me an engineering geek – whatever – I’ll wear that tag proudly. -:)
My main problem is not the noise or amount of fuel allowed, my problem is with the look of the cars. F1 cars used to ooze speed and cornering just by the way they looked. Now we have to look at something like the Caterham, really??
The noses are ugly. Agreed. But they still ooze speed.
The Caterham is hilarious looking….
Wide Boys. Ha!
Perhaps Vettel should complain about Aerodynamics providing cars that are ‘glued’ to the track vs. competitors lacking the same advantage. Oh wait, didn’t he just win 4 WDC’s in a row – nope, no complaints about artificial driver advantages due to vastly superior Aero! all good. Higher torque “twitchy” cars require DRIVER input welcome to a little bit of F1 from yesteryear Sebastian.
Ayrton Senna fights tooth and nail for WDC’s and ends up with 3
Vettel cruises to 2 out of his 4 WDC’s and whines because he’s now going to have to work for the next one – welcome to Alonso’s nightmare, part of being a champion is keeping it together after the tough losses like the lowly 2 title
Winner has managed to do.
WDC titles almost need asterisks these days, the first one counts and by number 3 or 4 in the string it’s WDC-lite (including not so recent Ferrari)
Road transferable tech emphasis is sensible and driver centric cars keep the WDC’s more relevant. Those get my vote to address what’s wrong with F1
As we all know but its worth repeating there is no way you can compare 3 of Senna’s WDC’s to 3 of Vettel’s, just not of the same calibre.
What? You can’t compare any era WDC title against any other era. Hell, you can’t even compare last year to this year to next year. The fact that you are trying to compare two different eras is the problem. Such a ridiculous post.
I tend to agree Dale, but one can make some comparisons from era to era, such as, take 1960-1970. Without doubt the stand out drivers were Clark/Moss/Stewart/Hill and then Brabham/Gurney/Amon/McLaren, then you had Rindt coming up at the end, and Ickx. In the 1970-1980 period you still had Stewart/Rindt to begin, and then one would have to add Peterson/Fittipaldi/Lauda/Hunt/Andretti, and then Piquet/Jones/Reutemann/Villeneuve/Arnoux and others, like Scheckter and so on. If you compared the 1960’s to the 70’s, the standout drivers can be seen, and they would in my view, be Clark/Stewart/Lauda/Peterson/Villeneuve, with the others being very good, but not quite there…the same can apply to the 1990’s, 2000’s and 2010 on, so for each period, there will be one two or three really dominant drivers, and their endeavours can be related to each decade or part thereof, to provide some comparison of their relative abilities.
“Hell, you can’t even compare last year to this year to next year”
Such wisdom,
2012 and 2013 were lightyears apart – Vettel surprised us all by stealing victory in 2013 where did this underdog come from, what a nail biter?
Go watch the later Ferrari Schumacher cake walk WDC’s for some more predicability (for the rest of us, you may find it spontaneously riveting having difficulty determining probable outcomes)
You don’t think statistics matter? Hollow championships skew statistics and vastly ‘car dominant’ championships are hollow, that’s why they’re a snoozefest. You may want to actually watch a few F1 races previous to the Red Bull era.
What’s wrong with F1?
Not as much as what’s right with it. It continues to amaze, captivate and excite me just as it did when I started watching in ’86. Some things have been lost, some gained, but overall it still gives be a buzz.
Another entertaining article, this blog is getting better every month!
I too have been watching since ’86. This season I’m more excited by changes than what we actually have.
Am I the only person in the world that actually likes the new noise/volume?
I don’t go to races, I can’t afford it and my job isn’t very convenient in any case, so the cars have only ever been as loud as the volume on my TV anyway. I’m not an afficionado, I don’t know everything and I am finding the the lower engine volume actually makes the races more interesting for me…I can now hear when a car bottoms out on the road, I can hear the wheelspin, I can hear the short shift more clearly when before I was relying on Brundle and co. to tell me what I was looking at.
I don’t find the engine note unpleasant, it sounds ‘growly’ instead of ‘screamy’, but so what? It’s not unpleasant..I don’t think it will put off people coming to the sport for new and I think if somebody stops watching because it sounds different then more fool them, the racing is better than it ever was last year. It’s like stopping going to the football because they enforced full seat stadiums, it doesn’t detract from the spectacle of the actual football or from the skill of the driving. In fact the skill is far more on show now than it has been in years.
As far as the performance of the cars goes..so they’re limited, so they can’t go round corners as fast as they did last year, I noticed whilst watching the China GP that the lap record was set by Schumacher in 2004…10 years ago. Why didn’t we all stop watching in 2005?
As far as I understand it, the technology has to be relevant to the road car divisions of the manufacturers concerned because otherwise those manufacturers will no longer be a part of F1. So no Mercedes, no Renault and no Ferrari. Where will F1 be then? It will be a damn sight poorer without them than it is currently.
I appreciate that this wasn’t really the point of the blog post above, but ‘the noise’ does seem to come up in every discussion about the sport at the moment, regardless of original topic and I’ve yet to hear anybody anywhere be positive about the new sound of F1 so I thought I would stick my twopenn’th in.
I think you’re 100% right that the biggest problem/s the sport faces are all of the financial shenanigans and obvious greed that are currently being dragged out and aired. Not that they shouldn’t be sorted, and publicly, but that that they were apparently so common place as to be beneath comment for so long makes the sport look seedy
And as it goes I quite like Vettel, he doesn’t seem as guarded as others more a bit shy than anything else. If he’s being negative about the team I am yet to hear it (it may well be happening, I just haven’t heard it). I have heard him being positive about Ricciardo which was refreshing and unexpected from my part. I thought that there would be far less even-handedness in his response to being out qualified and driven than there has been so far. He’s a racer though so he’s obviously going to be unhappy if the car isn’t coming to him and if he’s trying his hardest he’s going to cat around for scapegoats. Complaining about the noise just seems to be jumping on the bandwagon. If he does start to be negative about the team and the car he should watch out, it didn’t do Prost much good when he was at Ferrari.
Um, just realised how long this has got…apologies.
No, you are not alone. Quite a few people have expressed similar opinions to me. I think a little more noise would quieten the whiners but otherwise the spectacle is fine.
I’m with James too. The new soundscape of F1 is ten times more interesting, subtle (how could we ever use that word about F1 in the past), and informative.
We even get to hear the crowd reactions from time to time! (this is a Good Thing ™, in case you’re wondering)
Quite agree old chap.
Is there any truth in the rumour that the new wheels will revert to original sports type ie wire wheels with spokes? Also a clothes peg and specially developed supersonic cardboard are involved to “improve” the sound.
Nothing wrong with the sound leave it alone!
Sorry, imho, the power units sound awful. My lawn tractor sounds better. Although the 1977-1988 turbo years produced some incredible sights, the engines never sounded better than when the 3lt rules of 1966 came into effect. The Cossies, Ferrari’s, Matra’s and BRM’s of the 1970’s sounded just beautiful…real music. The current 1.6 V6’s are like hoovers.
Thankyou,
The thought occurs that noise (ie. volume) is energy wasted. Currently the turbine is absorbing an awful lot of energy coming out of the exhaust. Presumably making the engine louder results in more wasted energy/less energy harvested, resulting in the cars having to do more of the harvesting phase of the lap to keep up their quota of electrical ‘boost’ energy. Surely it’s in our interests as viewers –
and here I speak as “the TV audience” somebody that doesn’t go to the races, has unfortunately never been to a race and doesn’t have the experience of actually feeling the noise of the cars as they scream past..I accept that as an avid race goer this could well be an integral part of the experience
– for the engineers to harvest as much of the energy coming out of the actual hot, oily, engine bit as possible so that there is less of the battery recharging phase of the lap…Again, a lot of what I have heard/read is that the people that want loud cars also don’t like the fuel regulation/battery recharging aspect that has come into the sport, my understanding is that it will be very difficult to have both without alienating the manufacturers.
As an aside, I happen to think that silent cars would be weird, I’m not overly in favour of taking the current sport to that extreme, but I am in favour of letting the engineers do the best they can with what they’ve got to make the cars go as fast as possible. The shift in balance towards more torque than grip has come as a result of this attitude and as far as I am concerned it can only be A Good Thing (I don’t know how to do superscript, so you’ve got capitals instead) for the spectacle.
I would imagine, and here Joe et al that actually spend time in the pit lane talking to people would have far more idea than me, that the engineers aren’t taking a great deal of notice of the engine volume ‘issue’ at the moment. Instead, spending their time worrying about how to get more speed/downforce out of the vehicle and if the car gets even quieter, so be it.
Yes all the sound output is wasted energy as is the heat, although some of it has been used twice with the turbo. I wonder if we shall ever be allowed to make things properly efficient, even back in the days of steam we had three stage engines which used the exhaust steam again and again.
In other prominent series there is a “sudo adiabatic” process which is very much more efficient and seem to me the direction we should be heading in. But to deliberately make the power train less efficient seems crazy.
Although I have followed F1 since Nigel Mansell won the 1992 championship, I have only actually ever been to one grand prix, which was the 2006 Monza grand prix. We were seated at the Parabolica and so were really close to the cars. Although I found the very loud noise exciting (we wore earplugs), I can’t imagine what long term damage it could do to one’s hearing if one had to listen to that volume for almost 20 grand prix every year for years on end. Max Moseley may have many faults, but when he brought this up recently, I felt he had a good point. And I think the noise the cars make is exceptionally trivial compared to how much wheel to wheel action they provide.
Couldn’t have put it better myself. I will likely never afford to go to a race for real so rely on the TV, I don’t care about the noise. What I want is exciting racing and to know that my team has a chance to get on the podium or maybe win a race.
I also agree that the crows milking the cow in the commercial side of F1 are a big concern, but, aren’t also most of the teams companies in search of profit? I guess one of your points, if i am not mistaken, is that by making the sport relevant to companies willing to invest on it, you can make it self sustainable and hence being able to get rid of the debt sellers? The poblem is that to the sport is also needed to be relevant for the fans, and that involves passion… The problem is that the rights holder and his suited friends are more into money than into passion, perhaps. And, yes, the regulatory organism is not willing to do much about the sport either, seems to me
Bang on!
Joe, the one thing that everyone can agree on, is that there needs to be some refining of the sport. Smarter people than I will suggest the best way.
You do raise an interesting point part way through the article. That is, how do we review Webber’s later career now that Daniel appears to be beating Vettel? After all, endless driver rankings are based on one teammate beating another. If Dan is better than Seb in the current regs, where does that leave JEV, who was not that far behnd Dan? Or was Webber in his later career flattered by the car and should have retired long ago?
I think we should wait a little to see if the trend continues
Look forward to reading your insights at the end of the season then. I would have thought a Webber retrospective might be interesting. Much like the revised view of Schumi’s record against Rosberg who is now matching Lewis.
I for one was sad to miss seeing webber in a 2014 car …..much more to his style than the previous iteration
and did I really just read a comment about rosberg matching hamilton ? surely Imagine that !
Out of interest would the FIA not consider some sort of weight penalties for teams that exceed an agreed budget (not sure how much info the FIA are privy to with teams declaring what they spend though – whether FIA accountants should be allocated to each team maybe to check?). That way if they consistently spend more they weigh more negating the spending in the first place hopefully equalising the field a bit.
Also is there any possibility of teams being allocated an engine for Friday running that’s not part of their allocation to encourage more running. After all they’ve spent millions to get the two cars there and it seems a pity not to run them – I’d rather see teams trying new parts on track rather than them spending fortunes in wind tunnels etc
The best thing on offer was Max’s two level rules. The options available to teams if they adopted the cost cap were revolutionary. But it all fell in a ditch somewhere, never happened, no takers. A great pity because the sport would have been years ahead technically by now.
It’s all part of the RB plot to get the playing field leveled, i.e. more noise being code for more hp. Which is how drug addicts speak about their dependence and like to rationalize their habit into a victimized circumstance of existence.
More noise = more energy lost, less HP.
“I hope to see Sebastian challenging for victory soon, but I do find it interesting that he seems to be having trouble beating his own team-mate. Maybe Mark Webber was a more valuable member of the team than Vettel would like to remember.”
When Ricciardo was signed for Red Bull, you made a number of comments that in your view it was the wrong choice and JEV should have been picked as he was a better racer. Yet Ricciardo’s results suggest that his talent and pace are, as Mr Horner puts it, “the real deal”; and moreover, he’s shown a greater adaptability to the new rules and design than Vettel (who, in Gary Anderson’s eyes, is still driving the car like it’s last year).
So why is it “interesting”?
If you don’t find it interesting, you are wasting your time. The fact that things have not turned out as expected is why F1 is so interesting.
But, wouldn’t the level of interest depend on whether or not you expected Ricciardo to beat Vettel or not; or even expected Ricciardo to meet or exceed expectations or not?
Or are you suggesting that the way his composure slips when he’s beaten – the “Tough luck”/”At first I didn’t understand…” comments regarding team orders in China sound a lot like “I didn’t hear [the Multi-21 order]”/””I don’t apologise for winning” in Malaysia 2013.
I may have misunderstood you is all.
I won’t address the Vettel portion of the piece, but rather the driver/media part. Here in the U.S. drivers are very much encouraged to have contact with the media, contrary to those in F1. the fan base is extremely loyal to their drivers consequently. It’s a very different approach and it has all sorts of advantages both with the fans, as well as the press. Are there negatives? Sure. But the positives far out weigh the negatives by far.
Amen
Joe
Sorry for the offence, none intended, I think you are a legend on most topics….
But you can have the best media possible and with no fans, there will be no sport. There needs to be more focus on the reaction of the fans sitting in the stands, that attend an event each year, rather than the being dismissive of such views as ‘fuzzy’.
Personally, I think Vettel is a bad sport and really don’t like him, and while it is easy to simply dismiss his views as being that of a sore loser, I tend to agree with him.
I am a fan, who watches every race from the TV with an annual visit to Melbourne. You are a journalist who makes a living from F1.
I agree 100% that it is about the show! but it’s about the show from the fans perspective! not the journos.
Both are important, but ignore the fans at your peril.
The media is the voice of the fans…
Whilst some of the media listen to the fans, and can therefore bring some of that voice to the high and mighty in F1, it is quite clear that others in the media are sylting up the channels with ‘content’ going in another mis-direction!
Nice pun!
Thanks for the strong views as ever joe. I don’t always agree – especially about the noise issue this year, but every article is well thought out. Unfortunately I do agree about the point about people voting with their feet, and more people seem to be switching off than switching on these days.
Everyone I’ve spoken to loves the cars squirming around on the track. And the new engines and technology. I’ve yet to hear anything good said about the noses but while the domination of the Mercs is not great, I think people are interested in the clever engine design that got them there.
I liken the current f1 world to the world of cars. Ferrari and McLaren have released their latest super cars (La Ferrari and P1) that according to reports are the greatest road cars ever and sporting hybrid technology for extra boost.
Fabulous, except I don’t have the money and if I did my favourite roads wheee I live would not allow one to exploit the maximum speed, etc.
I would spend cash on a Catherham road car because for reasonable money they give you wonderful road cars that give you the thrill of driving. Maybe F1 should rethink the thrill of driving. The races I remember have great battles of drivers.
Maybe he needs to go and apply for a job at Toyota Hybrid Racing. The car is louder than an F1 car, has a V8 hybrid engine producing 1000 bhp and is also quite frugal. Indeed, it does the same distance as last year over a race using 25-30% less fuel.
The only issue is who would run the Red Bull F1 Team if he left, bearing in mind he is calling the shots at RBR?!
I suspect history will judge Mark Webber very kindly, not only for his honest talk, but his pace. If I were Vettel I’d be more focused on trying to beat Dan than worrying about the lack of noise his car is making. I’m sure the well grounded mechanics you mention will be enjoying Dan’s smile and no bullshit attitude too, maybe Seb should work on that too…
I didn’t see Vettel complaining when he was winning his 9 straight races in a row last year after Red Bull managed to get the tyre rules changed back to 2012 spec so they could dominate again, yet when things are not going his way possibly the biggest danger in F1 right now is being hit by one of Vettel’s toys being thrown out of the pram.
For the record I used to greatly admire Vettel, particularly when he won his first championship.
But certain events since – his underhanded manipulation of team orders last year and later trying to insult our intelligence with “oh I didn’t hear/understand the instruction”, his swearing on the podium, and lately his cry-babying in the car whilst he is being beaten by his vastly less experienced team-mate, puts me in mind of a spoiled child. Like all spoiled children, he needs some discipline and being put in his place.
Vettel may be talking of wanting a sport which is loud and dangerous. But read between the lines and what Vettel really wants is a sport which has 2010 to 2013 rules so Red Bull can dominate again and going back to having a variable team-mate like Webber so he can beat him.
There’s often been a question mark over whether Vettel was really worthy of his 4 world titles. Now he is being beaten by a relative newbie as soon as the car isn’t perfect, I’d say those questions are beginning to justify themselves.
That he is a very good driver is beyond question. But a great driver?
This year we’ve had some very good races, especially Bahrain which was one of the best races in recent memory, for some of the newer fans, living memory! I don’t think there’s much wrong with the new rules, just with drivers who don’t like it when their team’s/engine suppliers don’t do as good a job as others and they can’t dominate.
I think Vettel needs a big taste of humble pie – and should focus less on moaning about rules which don’t let him dominate, and more on actually beating his team-mate!
Hear hear
Spot on, I agree with all of the above.
Didn’t Seb keep telling the team on the radio last year, during the run of victories, to enjoy this while it lasts? I could be wrong but think he did.
He should be an ambassador for our sport, in every way, both on and off the track and be seen to embrace the new regulations and the wider benefits.
I also think that Christian Horner should be leading by example, in how he manages Seb within the team and promotes F1 – a missed opportunity for them both.
As for the constant criticism of Renault, I feel that they could be doing a lot more with supporting their winning engine partner of the past 4 seasons!
Renault, who have a long history in the sport, have contributed enormously over the years and Seb should respect that, plus the investment they make in what is a challenging economic market for any engine supplier.
He could be such an ambassador for Renault just now and use their history to support, encourage and motivate the team to develop the software to maximise the performance available this year.
Renault’s expertise was vital in developing the blown diffuser which he so successfully used in the past – they deserve so much more from RBR, Horner and especially Vettel.
It is therefore so refreshing to see Dan’s beaming smile as he settles in to RBR and perform so well against Seb – long may it last!!
Hi Malcolm,
Alas I think Vettel and Horner are two peas from the same pod when it comes to allowing self-interest to shape what they say and how they say it. I agree that they should both be more supportive of Renault. But it’s all smoke and mirrors. Spin and dazzle. The more they moan, the more they raise the perception that the rules must be changed. If the rules are changed, they may be able to wipe part of the slate clean and get a free leapfrog in the race to catch Mercedes. Vettel knows this. Horner knows this. So their criticism, whilst not entirely founded, comes as no surprise.
For example, anybody else but me find it suspicious that the teams who would benefit the most from having the fuel sensors scrapped (i.e. Renault) are also the same teams who got pretty much all the problems with them (i.e. Renault)? They were all about “these sensors are rubbish, we must get them and the fuel consumption rule scrapped”.
Strange how now the FIA have said they’re not changing the fuel rules no matter how much Red Bull moan about the sensors, and in fact issued instructions that they must sort their sensor positioning problems out by Spain (insinuating that the error in fact lies with the Renault teams and not the sensors), the problems with the fuel sensors seems to have gone away. Amazing. Miraculous, almost ;p
Ron Dennis summed things up rather well recently when interviewed at a race weekend, urging teams to stop squabbling and bickering and wallowing in self-interest and instead give a thought to the future of the sport.
Personally I think the new rules are giving us some great racing, and if we’re able to cripple our environment at a slower rate as a result, how can that be a bad thing?
I wonder at what point the reality of the RB team’s behaviour starts to tarnish their brand image?
It won’t unless they do something truly, catastrophically stupid and people start Facebook groups calling for a boycott. Which is unlikely.
I was going to write my own reply to Joe’s excellent piece but your post says it all. I’d just add that I spotted the 2 faced Vettel from the beginning. Happy chappy for the crowds but petulant child when things didn’t go his way. I don’t mind if a driver is arrogant or indignant, just as long as he doesn’t pretend otherwise. I also always questioned where exactly Vettel would lie in the talent stakes. He clearly was nowhere near as good as the car made him look. So interesting to see him being beaten this year. I’d never have said Daniel was better. Who knew! Vettel’s fake smiles are certainly being tested. If the current situation continues I’d bet they are completely gone by September!
Sorry but that is utter rubbish! Vettel is a great driver, and a worthy WCD. every driver has times where they act badly, it’s called human nature. In general he is a really nice, open and funny bloke. Sure he is serious about winning, but that is why he is No1 at his team, and why they employ him. I would take a substantial bet that if Ferrari, Mac,or Merc had a chance to sign him, then there would be several drivers that would be very worried about their jobs!!
Its his opinion Damian and is as rubbish or not as rubbish as your opinion – just like mine. When people react emotionally they loose perspective I find. Funny how the teams hire drivers based upon cold hard data yet some fans evaluate the drivers based upon, what? That he ‘appears’ to be ‘serious’ about winning? That he is ‘nice’ (how can I know this)? Show me a driver at this level who isn’t serious about what they do? Just like Hollywood movie stars, your only as ‘valuable’ as how much your last picture made. F1 drivers are evaluated by their employers to the same type of standards – when did you last win? Flinging terms around like ‘rubbish’ when discussing a subjective evaluation of a drivers ‘worth’ to other teams, or using the term ‘great’ (non-precise description/evaluation) is meaningless in the big picture. The three teams you mention that would jump at the chance to sign Seb is based upon your value of him, (He’s great) or a team accountant/CFO’s valuation. IE., he’s wanted at $40M per season and not so much when he wants $60M. Your applying emotional value to Seb where as a guy like Ron Dennis uses different metrics. Its why we’re fans and they are team principals.
I agree it is his opinion Doug, but to say that a guy who has won 4 WCD titles isn’t a great driver is just absurd imho! The amount of effort needed to win one, is a hell of a lot. JYS once said that winning consecutive titles, which even he didn’t do, was more difficult than winning one at a time, as the effort needed had to be reproduced continuously, and even in his time, that needed a huge physical and mental focus. If you look back over the last 3-4 decades, there have probably only been 3 or 4 titles won by a driver in a car that was maybe 2nd/3rd quickest in the field of that year. Jody Scheckter would be one I would say. Other than that, Vettel comes across as a normal person, he has a private life that is not all bling and OK Mag, but is just normal, it’s even said that he likes to mow the lawn with his lawntractor…a pretty normal activity like many of us have in life, although he could just pay someone to do so for him. And I’ve seen him interviewed outside the F1 bubble, and in such interviews he just seems very well adjusted and normal. He is obviously having a driving style issue now, which I am sure he will sort, but I can’t think of many F1 drivers who would tell an interviewer that their Team Mate is just doing a better job right now…most would sooner bite off an arm than admit such! So I’m not putting emotions into my previous post, just pointing out that it is absurd to say the guy is in anyway a duffer because he has had a good car for several seasons! After all does that mean that Fangio was useless as well?
Dunno, I never saw Fangio drive, I have no idea how good or bad his car was. It is clear from your posts that you are a passionate fan of Vettel which is your right. To me his is just another, IMO,average (in F1 terms) Champion. A good driver in a great car. That is my dispassionate view. On a personal level I think he is a sulky adult which is never pretty.
I didn’t see Fangio drive either, but there are film reports, written reports and other driver accounts of his abilities. It’s history, and the guy was amazing in his era, with the cars that were there at that time. Given that he had so much natural ability, it is very likely that his skills would have set him apart in any era he was born into. I’m not a passionate fan of Vettel, as it happens. However he has done enough to show his abilities as better than most of the current field, both now, and on his way up to F1. Also, as I said, it is pretty much impossible, and this has been demonstrated for some 60 years in F1, for any driver, no matter how greatly skilled, to win a WCD in a car that is not the best in the field of that year. To win 4 titles, is an impressive feat for any driver, to win even one takes a lot of commitment and driver skill. Only Schuey,Fangio, Prost & Vettel have won 4, only Schuey, Fangio & Vettel have won 4 consecutively, that is mighty impressive for a 60 year period.
The fact that Hammy & Rosberg have by far the best car in 2014, will not make the WCD title that Hammy will probably win, any lesser value, than any other title. If you want to be unbiased, Senna won 3 titles in the best car, and Prost won 4 of which 1 was in a car that was probably not the outright fastest, but which was still a good all round machine, and he was helped by the rival Williams drivers taking points off each other. Kimi’s title in 2007 was taken the same way really, I could show numerous examples of lucky wins, but they still needed skill to carry them off. No one wins a WCD without putting some real effort in, and getting some lucky breaks, and applying great driver skill.
And you’re most definitely not alone in this view Damian, I along with many others would agree with you.
F1 went wrong when Bernie made it an elitist. Having been working at several British GP’s which involved going into the paddock and pits it was fun and exciting. But every year security got tighter and tighter.
When the chain-link fence, guards and turnstiles were installed the sport died for me. Standing inside like zoo exhibits watching the ‘fans’ being excluded killed it.
I still watch from a business perspective but unless they can get back to connecting with the fans it’s just become an ostentatious perverse display of disposable wealth by the privileged few.
Germans? I am American and you sound like a bitter fellow who doesn’t believe that drivers should have the freedom to speak their mind. So what he wants a powerful beast? So what he wants it loud – lots of fans like these things too. Vettel has praised his teammate and admits he’s having a tough time (although I seem to recall he got a podium). Of course if he were winning he would not be saying those things – he would sound curlish and petty, much like Lewis last season when he was whining about not wanting to win like Vettel, but wanting only to fight for wins.
That is just what drivers do. I think you should know that, based on your reputation, which leads me to believe you are just giving Vettel a hard time. Which is okay, I just think you should be honest about it.
Did you actually read this article?
What!
?
This was for Marcus.
Just another complaint post I suppose, but her goes:
-F1 was never 100% of the time “full throttle”. I distrust anyone claiming it ever was and will probably not value their other opinions highly (or at least with serious caution). Know your history, please!
-I don’t like black-white thinking about people. Everyone has their own (self-)justifications. And while often there is only on truth, in many situations (human relationships especially), it always pays to take everyone’s POV.
-Vettel isn’t a “whining kid” (and some readers seem to overlook that Joe isn’t trying to paint a one-sided picture of Seb), No one is perfect and most of us evolve into wiser people as we grow older/mature (not necessary the same thing).
I get annoyed if people try to make Bernie seem like the all-evil. He is not. Cunning for sure. And he often has motives that infuriate others. But at the same time you have to ask yourself why he got F1 where it currently sits. This wasn’t a fluke and it wasn’t given to him on a silver platter. And why didn’t anyone else saw the potential? Hindsight is 20//20.
But everyone has their expiration date and everyone makes mistakes. The sad thing is in Western culture admitting a wrong is still widely regarded as a sign of weakness. And admitting you may no longer be the best person suited for the job is seen as a defeat.
It takes a wise man to leave a position of power.
It’s all pretty complicated and there are often no easy answers. Otherwise they would already have been installed.
speedy_bob (counting MW as one of the few not having been booted out of F1, not a simple feat)
“I get it that he wants to drive cars with 1000 horsepower, but he wasn’t doing that last year and we did not hear him whining about winning nine consecutive races… Did we? In any case, who wants to invest in cars with 1000 horsepower?”
Toyota’s WEC car has very nearly a thousand horsepower, sounds fantastic, and can go flat-out for 6 hours at least and probably 24. Perhaps Seb should consider following his former team-mate to the sunlit uplands of Sportscar racing if he’s not enjoying F1 any more.
“Level playing field”… I’m still not sure what that’s supposed to mean, exactly. How much did Toyota spend in F1? How many races did they win? Should a new team come into the sport, spending $1,000 have as much chance of winning as anyone else?
Also, I can understand that technology developed in F1 can trickle down to road cars, but F1 cars are not road cars and never should be. They should be an exciting, outrageous spectacle with nothing to do with road cars in that sense.
By the way, speaking of “relevance” to road cars, how much do F1 cars pollute? How relevant is that?
And I still don’t like the noise – or lack of it…
I guess no one’s considered that Ricciardo may just be a better driver?
Granted, it’s a big call, but you have to say that so far, he’s showing Vettel a clean set of heels. He’s working hard and getting the job done. If Vettel isnt careful, Ferrari could look to his teammate rather than him.
It’s the lack of contact between drivers and journalists I find most worrying. Some of the most entertaining articles in magazines such as Autosport in the past were the pieces penned by Roebuck or yourself about time spent with such and such driver. I remember a piece by Nigel Roebuck about going to Fiorano with Gilles Villeneuve and being driven back in his 288GTO – it gave more of an insight into the driver in a couple of pages than three or four years worth of corporate speak today.
Undoubtedly the current Red Bull line has more to do with not winning everything at the moment, as did the attempted destruction of Pirelli’s reputation last year, yet it is still very sad that no one knows the drivers’ real views. Perhaps they should read the Bubbles Horseley book of excuses and blame it on a buzzard pecking the driver’s helmet on the back straight, as I remember him doing following a James Hunt retirement at, I think, Thruxton!
Joe
Re the concept of a cost cap on F1.
Is there any analysis of where the money is actually spent? Now the engine (sorry – power train) is fixed.
A gearbox is a gearbox – once designed it is done for the year (and for those with resource constraints they can buy one in).
What else?
Aero is the obvious biggest and constant area. Here the wind tunnel model size is limited and the number of hours use is limited. Same for CFD – max compute power I think is fixed and max usage is defined.
Testing – very limited these days.
So if Marussia for example spend $60m or so per year, and Red Bull spend $250m per year, where is the extra $190m spent?
Any input would be interesting to see.
Thanks.
PS – took a subscription to GP+ this season – really great and thoroughly recommended.
It is spent on the tiny details that make the differences.
Ok. The noise doesn’t bother me. The cars are intriguing – however I don’t understand them conceptually as well as the normally aspirated. I don’t have an overwhelmingly favorite. Anyone who scores well and wins earned it and deserves applauds.
I hate the high ticket prices and the emasculated tracks. Monaco is my favorite not because of the history but rather the margin of error. If the margin of error was narrower on tracks then I might be more excited about the races…..
Have you tried buying tickets to The Rolling Stones, or the New Year’s Day Concert in Vienna, or any major international sporting event with a limited space for spectators? F1 prices are pretty much the norm. When people stop paying then the prices will fall. Market forces.
Yes. I have brought tickets to the concerts and sporting events. And those shows provided the value I was looking for.I agree that the prices can’t be “low”….. But jeeze when I see empty stands on TV broadcast – and being priced out of some start line seats…. I gotta state my point. And thanks for allowing that…..
But, I don’t think – high prices are going to be the main problem with F1 in the next 10 years. It is going to be demographics. I wonder what the average age of the current F1 fan is? Do we have a measure of this.
On the other hand, Monaco is also the circuit with least over-taking and most chance of a safety car being deployed during the race.
“Vettel is driving like it’s last years car”
No traction control this year, seb….
And before you jump on me, consider what Mr. Minardi and Mr. Brundle have said.
Mr.Brundle once said “When Vettel comes past me into the corner, there’s a lot of four cylindering going on.”
If Vettel left, where would he go?
Nascar is loud and dangerous, but I don’t think they’d take him, he doesn’t take team orders, he’s spoiled goods.
As for RB, if they were any more bent, they’d lap themselves.
All valid points across the spectrum of opinion. What has been missed is like any sport, activity, or musical performer each has their season of popularity that comes and goes. F1 is not what I’m used to after 30 years as a follower but that doesn’t mean it’s bad, it just means it has less going for it now to maintain my personal interest. The same could be said for football, NASCAR, or tennis at any given point in time. So it goes.
Keeping or building a fan base for any pay-for-view sport or entertainment event ultimately comes down to figuring out what fans want, and what their price point is in order to pay for the show. If F1 ever gets its collective head out of its bottom, perhaps we’ll see a resurgence in popularity and a much more positive attitude toward the product being presented. I’m not convinced selling motor sport as a supposedly green activity to younger generations who are less interested in cars than their parents or grandparents is a viable route. Selling people on ‘social responsibility’ above excitement diminishes the spectacle.
classic…….Sebastian Vettel isn’t coming out to play any more unless the other boys are nicer to him, the world champion’s mum has warned today.
In a letter to the FIA, Mrs Vettel has warned that ‘certain boys’ within F1 have been ‘horrible’ to her son and have engaged in ‘mean behaviour’ such as ‘overtaking him’ and ‘not letting him win’.
In particular, the German driver’s mother insists that he will not bring his toys to Spain in two weeks’ time unless one ‘very mean boy’ stops ‘showing off just because he has the same toy.’
Mrs Vettel concludes her stark missive by suggesting that the only way to get her son to come downstairs and finish his dinner is if the other boys ‘just let Sebby be world champion again’.
Gotta love the guys at Sniff Petrol 🙂
I like Vettel. For his age, he seems pretty mature. He is fast. He can come from the back and produce a reasonable result. He’s not a dirty driver generally. He doesn’t carry baggage around. He keeps his private life to himself. Thus, I’m willling to listen to his opinion. He has admitted that Dan is faster in the current RB car than him. We should cut him some slack. He’s frustrated. I would be too. I don’t know, but it’s possible that he’s driven a V10 F1 car for a film day.
So give Vettel a break!
I did. But he should have more respect for the sport that made him.
It’s sad that so called fans just bad mouth the guy, but Hammy gets it too, and I remember that Lauda was a hate figure for so called fans in the mid 1970’s when he was beating everyone. I agree with you John ( in SD ). I also think he has a duty as WCD and a multiple one at that, to express his personal opinions on the sport and the rules and regs, if he has any to express, which he obviously has had. As to respecting the sport, well at least he knows the history, which is more than can be said for half the F1 grid, and if he thinks the rules are not good for it, then I think he has every right to say so.Also, I remember Mario being slagged off for winning the WCD in 1978, as people conveniently forgot that he spent 3 years working toward that point at Lotus, and was also one of the outstanding drivers of all time, having won in every series he contested, something else that drivers don’t do these days!
For a 26 year old who has been in F1 for 8 years or so, I’d say Vettel is becoming increasingly immature, his maturity seeming to go down the same pan as his likability. If he chooses to spout such rubbish when things aren’t going his way he should neither expect, nor deserve, “a break”. He’s had 4 years of the best car and somewhat past-his-peak and fickle team-mate to enjoy sticking his number 1 finger in the air and hail “now that’s what I’m talking about”. Now the times have moved on and he has an imperfect car and a more competitive team-mate, he should rise to the challenge, rather than being frustrated by it. Indeed I think the situation is very much in reverse, Vettel should give us a break.
“In any case, who wants to invest in cars with 1000 horsepower?”
What about Toyota in WEC? Why, if it’s okay for endurance to have a 1000hp car, is it not okay for F1?
Think road cars