Angst and empty grandstands

Yesterday was a rainy drive home from Germany with a silly “umleitung” (diversion) in the Pfalz forest which resulted in nearly an hour of rally stages either behind chugging trucks or (more dangerously) swerving around on wildly twisting roads amid trees, cliffs and ravines. We climbed so high that we were in the clouds which added to the feeling that I had turned right and arrived in Wales. Once across the French border it was cruise control all the way to avoid speeding fines – while people from Slovakia/Slovenia hurtle past you, knowing that no French fonctionnaire will ever bother to follow up on a speeding offence. It is enough to make you buy cars in Slovakia/Slovenia! The only excitement was in a rainstorm when a bird that had ventured out without its sou’wester tried to use the same airspace as my automobile and I fear came off worst.

As it was not touring weather I skipped a lunch stop and used the phone (hands-free) to catch up on some of the news that never made it into the paddock, while dodging puddles in the spray. Watch out for changes at Marussia and more at Caterham. Keep an eye too on F1 and Russia as sponsors are beginning to grumble that going to have tea with Vladimir Putin would not be the smartest thing for F1 to do. Maybe the celebrated Strategy Group will finally do something sensible and involve itself in real strategic thinking, rather than doing daft things that don’t help anyone.

The big talking point at Hockenheim was the size of the crowd, with a number of angst-ridden German reporters trying to understand why der Mann auf der Strasse is no longer coming to the German GP, preferring to stay home with flat screen TV, his beer and his wurst rather than dealing with the hassles and costs of “being there”. The conclusions were confused. Some blamed the sport (usually those with an agenda), some blamed Mercedes, some blamed the weather, some blamed the World Cup. The most likely explanation I heard (admittedly a little bit more sociological than others) was that when Germany discovered F1 it was around the same era as Reunification. This was an unsettling time for everybody and the working classes found security, pride and unity in a successful simple lad called Michael. The fans had mullets and few skills with cutlery, but they loved their Schumi with a passion and battalions of camper vans would surge across the border to nearby races, while Hockenheim was a wild festival of beer and nationalism. The new generation of German drivers don’t do it for the retired mullet-wearers. The current F1 crop are all middle class, they are half-this and half-that when it comes to nationality, and as the working class fans have faded away they have not been replaced by der bourgeoisie. No-one engages with Sebastian Vettel because he “vants to be alone” with his anonymous family at the end of a farm track at a secret location in Switzerland and refuses to talk about life away from the race track. He is an interesting guy, but his PR bodyguards won’t let him out. For the Rembrandts in the F1 media, this is like being given a white canvas and some pale yellow paint.

Nico tries hard to engage but he’s almost too perfect, speaks too many languages, looks like a Monaco beach bum and does not excite the average machine operator in Dortmund. They now idolize soccer players. The Hulk is never in the right car and Adrian Sutil is half-Uruguayan, plays the piano and does strange things with champagne glasses.

The key point is that other races are still getting big crowds so F1 should leave the angst to the Germans.

164 thoughts on “Angst and empty grandstands

  1. The return of the Austrian GP also probably hurt the German crowds, would you agree Joe?

    Could they be further apart on the calendar next year perhaps?

      1. Neither could many Austrians! Lucky I got one, but they were all sold out in 42 hours. I reckon that venue could have sold-out twice over. On the day it was mainly full with Austrians – proving your point Joe. It will be interesting if Hungary’s crowd is hit, as that also historically gets a lot of Austrians in attendance. Never seen a country more nutty about F1 than Austria though.

        1. Austria have a good legacy in F1 when you think about it: Rindt, Lauda, Berger, Wurz…. Marko, RBR and Klien as well now 🙂 and of course the Osterreichring, with the bumpy Zeltweg airfield nearby used until this gem was built 😀

  2. Interesting, point about driver personalities. I’m convinced its a factor at our house as I watch F1 alone, my teenage kids unable to “connect”

    But as you are sort of on the subject, what does the Paddock banter say about GP2/GP3 crowds?

    I can never understand why folk with “tickets for the day” are not there, on scene , for when the first wheel of the first race, turns (and that appears to be the same at all races in the seasson). I always am – and OK, I’ll admit anyone racing under the Union Flag gets an extra cheer, but am there for the racing first.

  3. So basically, Hamilton had a point, when he said that Rosberg wasn’t really German?

    In fact, he was only reiterating what was already out there, because Rosberg himself had previously said that he didn’t consider himself German, or Finnish, but European, because of his upbringing. He only piggy-backed on the German identity thing so he could get himself into F1, because that’s where the money was in the motoring world (BMW etc). These comments came directly after he won the GP2 series (I could link an article containing these comments but I won’t). So basically when he said he considered himself 100% German, he was, well how shall we put it – speaking an untruth?

    Seems like the crowds (or lack of them) on Sunday more or less reflected back the fact that the Germans don’t really consider him German, either.

    1. He was a dual passport holder (Germany/Finland) until his early twenties – iirc Finland requires you to make a choice at that point. In that position I guess you’re damned in the eyes of national fans whichever way you jump.

    2. you seem quite het up about rosbergs nationality, its not that complicated. he had duel citizenship, he had to chose one or the other due to Finnish legislation and the fact I think you have to run under your passport in F1, and his is German. So no Hamilton didn’t really have a point. He’s German according to his passport but lives in Monaco. Lewis has a British Passport but also lives in Monaco. Think you may be reading too much into his nationality (German by the way) and the attendance at the GP.

  4. It’s true, MercedesAMG and Rosberg have an image problem here in Germany. Neither of them is seen as real German, and they are “too posh” for the common German. The one is a son of a Finnish Millionair who never paid a single € taxes here, and Mercedes tries to be too much elite class.They lack both charisma & passion. For Rosberg F1 seems to be another expensive hobby, not something he worked hard for. They have not really a fan base like Ferrari or many passionate followers like Michael, who still would have been supported if he was driving a shopping trolly.
    Vettel on the other side has a big fan base, but his fans are much younger & for them F1 is simply too expensive.
    It was a shame to be a German F1 fan at Hockenheim after you saw Silverstone as Hamiltons home GP, and how he had passionate support and thrilled the masses. Here was no athmosphere, no passion. There have been more supporters of Hamilton here at Hockenheim as for Mercedes & Rosberg .
    F1 is generally losing interest in Germany too. The rules are confusing and silly, the cars look slow the sound is boring .

    1. I my opinion the one thing the cars do not look is slow!!!. Last years cars looked like slot cars but this year the are clearly much much more of a handful.

    2. When has Mercedes ever not been posh? That’s an honest question, not meant as a sarcastic remark. I mean, I’ve always perceived the brand as one for show-offs (meaning, since I got to “know” cars) and only because of their last decade in F1 have I accepted that they still/again are into racing. I guess I tend to not take into account racing achievements performed + 25 years ago when valuating a brand’s sportiveness.
      BMW tried and failed imho and funnily enough I still regard a road going BMW as more sporty then a Mercedes. But I perceive the Mercedes F1 team as a group of racing individuals who often have to prove themselves to corporate, since I’m not really convinced the Mercedes brass really love their racing as the BMW top seems to. All my own perception of course.

      I can understand Rosberg being seen as having had it all too easy. But does that take away anything of his achievements? He had to beat several other rich-dad’s racers.

      Of course it sells more newspapers when being able to write about some driver having had to survive on canned beef and sleeping on sofa’s for years until his big break-through. But i just don’t believe in those over-simplified live-story’s. And whatever F1 media tries to feed me this simpleton BS, I ignore.

      But alas, I guess the masses need (black/white)hero’s. 😦

      When I try to imagine getting my family and friends to attend races, I picture them physically there and all sorts of problems pop up. It was already hinted at some blogposts back: people in F1 should try to have a fan’s experience for once and several issues would suddenly become crystal-clear.

      When I go to the Renault world series, I find myself liking the racing more if I have someone to cheer for. The better I prepare myself in the weeks upfront, the more fun. But reading up on junior’s profiles is not only time-consuming, it’s often incomplete and lacks interesting angles etc.

      The lottery that is F1 just turns me off sometimes. At least in soccer if you’re talented, you WILL find a decent team and earn money in stead of having to bring it. That’s one of the issues I need to explain to my family: F1 is not completely elitist, but it is for 90%. 🙂

      Only some megatalent may get a break from a patron but those are too rare to influence the casual spectator. we need more of those. But who was the last driver we can assign that status? Hamilton (7 years ago already!) KMag? In 2015 Vandoorne? Frijns (minus the patron unfortunately).

  5. nothing to do with a high profile bribery case ongoing against the German state leaving a sour taste in the mouth of das punters?

    F1’s continued relationship with the little man is even starting to put me off, and his misdemeanors against my country are little more than speculation (at the time of writing). I’m sure the Germans are even less appreciative.

    I wonder if FOM included the hideous “Bernie says…” lifehack messages in the feed for German TV?

    1. Well they did in England!

      It said: Bernie says “Think before you drive….”

      I read it and thought it said: Bernie says “Think before you bribe…..”

  6. I have a German half brother (aged 34) and he too couldn’t care less about F1. This despite watching it until about 4 years ago.

    The Michael effect was strong – he would often show enormous happiness/anger/emotion on the TV, he was undeniably mighty but occasionally vulnerable and he had such a strong presence (a very important thing to Germans). To put it simply, he was very human, very intense and massively engaging. You either loved him or hated him.

    In contrast, the German’s on the grid today are none of these things. They’re superb drivers but they don’t come across as being very human (or German). They rarely show anything like as much emotion as Schumacher did or their footballer cousins do now.

    Something Germans find very awkward is national pride – at what point does pleasant patriotism become scary nationalism? They’re very, very sensitive about it. With Schumacher it all worked, with the others it does not. Fans would leave the Nurburgring when Schumacher crashed/broke down, now they don’t even show up.

    A marketer would ask – “Why do you want Schumacher to win?” to which a fan may answer “Because I love him/his driving/his ways etc” or “I don’t, I can’t stand the bastard!”. Answering the same question about Vettel or Rosberg would be a little more sterile.

    Another thing of course is that, well, Hockenheim’s a bit of a rubbish track these days.

    1. It could be said that most of the current drivers show very little true emotion, they wheel out the prepared responses and don’t show too much of the reality for fear of hurting sponsor relationships, commercial interests, etc;
      That’s why fans like watching Alonso, Hamilton & Raikkonen. They have character.

      1. I think that’s why people are embracing Ricciardo. He’s pretty unpredictable, and fairly goofy, but approachable. The fact he’s holding his own against a 4X WDC teammate doesn’t hurt either.

        1. Really good point, I’m not a fan of that particular team, I find them awfully crass but Ricciardo is a breath of fresh air for exactly the reasons you mentioned.

  7. Hi Joe,

    I agree that there are probably lots of little reasons leading to the shift in interest but pricing surely must be a key factor.

    You can get a weekend pass for a FAMILY to see the three days DTM racing at the A1 Ring or the Nuerburgring for 105 Euro.

    A single weekend pass to the GOLD standard seats including paddock access is only 77 Euro.

    Prices for access to the F1 races just do not compare and certainly are too high to encourage any young potential new fans (especially with the high rates of youth unemployment across Europe)

  8. Many years ago, Slovakia and Slovenia were part of the Hapsburg empire. These days they are separated by Austria. Cars from both of those places (and Austria while we are at it) would probably not get fined for speeding…

  9. They just need Audi to move into F1 – if it doesn’t get the German’s watching it should at least get what seems to be most of Britain’s company car drivers’ interest

    1. I get the feeling from Joe’s previous comments that Volkswagen Group are waiting for the retirement (forced or otherwise) of a certain white haired octogenarian.

  10. We considered going as it`s only a 3hr drive from Zurich. After trying to navigate the horrible Hockenheim web site and figure out where we would be sitting and then calculating the ticket price of close to a 1000 euro for the three of us plus accommodation (wife wont do camping) we decided its just not worth it! I suspect its the same for a lot of other fans too.

    1. Agreed on the website, I was sold premium tickets in the Merc stand on the understanding all other seats were sold out. The stand was less than half full!

      Monza is a similar distance and the hotels are a bit cheaper and race tickets are a bit cheaper.

      The drive back to Zug from the Hockenheim was horrendous, I storms promised for the race arrived a couple of hours late and followed me home.

  11. I think that you hit the nail on the head here. Schumacher was the right man for the (ahem) Zeitgeist of the 90s/00s, whereas the current crop of German drivers is not appealing to the current fans. The word “arrogant” is used by German friends when talking about Rosberg; I don’t know if he is or he isn’t, but that is how he can come across to the regular fan.

    I also read that the TV audience is declining in Germany, which might be more of a concern to the promoter than the race day crowd. As well as unappealing drivers, I put this down to the poor state of the German TV coverage. Whilst RTL has good experts and commentators, they are underused in a rather stale format which struggles to inject any excitement into the proceedings. The maybe feeds back into low attendance at the track: if the races appear boring on TV, why would you drive to the circuit and waste a lot of money?

    Competitiion is a good thing. Every time the TV rights change hands in the UK, the quality and innovation of the coverage go up a notch. RTL have had the F1 for more than 20 years now. Time for a change? I don’t know about Angst in Germany, but there is certainly a lack of interest in F1 at the moment.

    1. “Competitiion is a good thing. Every time the TV rights change hands in the UK, the quality and innovation of the coverage go up a notch. ”

      Hahahahahaha. It didn’t go up a notch at all when ITV pitched up, taking it off the BBC. They just did the same thing, but with added infuriating adverts.

      1. Not true. I have genuinely fond memories of late-90s ITV coverage and of diligently printing off pages and pages from their F1 website to post home to my kid brother who was starting to take an interest in the sport. They definitely worked hard at it.

      1. I seem to recall, as a child in the late 80s, the Hockenheim attendances in that era being woeful with massive gap-toothed areas of the grandstands empty.

  12. I’d like to suggest that 11 recent world championships in recent years have reduced the value of Nico maybe winning one. And isn’t he really Finnish?

    1. No, he is not wholly Finnish. His mother was a German. He was born in Germany. His father was a Finn. This makes him half German and half Finnish. However, he grew up almost entirely in Monaco and thinks of that as his home race. In the end you can say that he is an international citizen. You’ll be telling me next that Conor Daly is Irish.

          1. Based on last weekend in Ireland, i’d say 50% of the tourists there were American. And you could tell the Americans too, instantly recognisable in their white socks and ‘tennis shoes’, not to mention some of them being well on their way to morbid obesity !

            1. That’s actually pretty damned offensive. Try substituting the word ‘Irishman’ for ‘Black’ or ‘Jewish’ and see how far your little smiley emoticon gets ya.

      1. Conor Daly is as American as a Cheeseburger and a Coke (no Pepsi!) who has a father with a funny accent. 😉 I agree Joe, people go too far in their attempts to ‘nationalize’ celebrities and sports personalities such as Nico and to ‘claim’ him as their own so to speak. I think Nico is happy to just consider himself a citizen of the EU and a resident of Monaco and be done with it. Where his father and mother were born or where he himself was born is an accident of romance. Being born in a hospital in Wiesbaden has nothing to do with him being German other then an entry in a passport. The younger generation have moved on from the silly notion of your background ‘defines’ you as who you are. Globalization is changing peoples views as well as job prospects. Listening to an interview of Nico recently I heard him using some very British slang – probably as a result of hanging around some of his Brit race crew. Can the English claim him now too? 🙂

  13. Unfortunately we Germans often are not fans of a particular sport (we only think we are), but actually we are often only fans of the athletes. When a guy called Boris Becker won Wimbledon for the first time, another guy called Stefan Bellof died only a couple of days later in Spa. So Germans became tennis „fans”, but not really. They only became Boris (and then Steffi) fans. Now, with those idols long gone, I’ll bet almost no one in Germany could tell you, who won Wimbledon this year. Nobody cares. And RTL (the broadcaster of F1 in Germany) made their broadcast always a Schumi-Fanfest, rather than a good F1 sports show. When Schumacher came back for his second career, they where cheering that „F1 finally gets interesting again“, as if it was boring without him (with Kimi winning in the last race, Lewis in the last corner, Jenson in the underdog team …).

    1. Achim, of all the more or less scientific explanations, yours seems the most reasonable to me. By the way, as I understand, the attendance at DTM events is also on a downturn. There should be no sort of post-Schumi effect, I’d reckon.

      Maybe people nowadays understand a bit more of financial mathematics. Cash flow and budget constraints are not exclusive to F1 teams, ordinary people have always had these kind of worries too. Nowadays many people need to pay in order to watch F1 in their home-gemütlichkeit, so, why bother spending an extra fortune on beer drinking at a sun-baked/rain-soaked grandstand?

  14. Hi Joe,
    Interesting article as always. Reading the yesterdays local paper where I live in Germany there was an article by the sports Reporter (admittedly not an F1 fan) about this Topic picking up the fact that on the same Weekend was the Truck Grand Prix at the Ring with 200000 spectators (an exaggeration I guess) as opposed to 52000 in Hockenheim. A similar theme was picked up on a German Motorsport site commenting on the fact a few years back when there was the German GP at Hockenheim and the Europe GP at the Ring within a few eeks of each other and there were 100K+ crowds at both events.
    Having seen a report about the Truck Grand Prix on the TV on Sunday night you can see it is a show with events on the Saturday (day & night) and on Sunday. The racing is perfect for a non-purist appealing to some people’s desire to watch gladiator fighting instincts with lots of action, the second race starting in reverse order from finishing positions of first race; both races having lots of Lewis style contacts and that coupled with off circuit events appeals to those who wish party around an event even when the event itself might be of less interest to them.
    I guess F1 went along the “Exclusive” route with high prices and restricted access which is fine if the public and corporate clients see it as a “Must Attend” event which is still the case at say Monaco or even Silverstone with the UK based teams and supply base; however, if an event has not got a “Must Attend” mythos a fickle public looks to see if it feels it is getting valiue for money and votes with their feet.

    1. 200,000 at the ‘Ring for truck racing… but only 60K there last year for F1? That sounds like an important difference to me.

      Does anyone in F1 care?

      ps: Silly me, I thought truck racing was a USian thing… what kind of trucks do they race in Germany?

      1. Read this comment again and assess whether it is not just a tad contradictory in tone. It starts in a mood of a gung-ho know-it-all and then slams into the wall with the question at the end. The trucks they race in Germany are haulers not pick-ups. The fans are mulleted.

        1. Fair point about the trucks… and I’m no doubt guilty of having an (unjustified) know-it-all tone… mea culpa…

          But my main point was (more or less) that I don’t understand the concern about only 52K at Hockenheim when there wasn’t a similar fuss when only 60K showed up at the ‘Ring last year. What’s the difference (besides 8k)?

          1. More to the point RShack, I read 92,000 went to the German Moto GP Round a week or so before Hockenheim. If 92,000 go to see the premier Moto GP series in Germany, with only Stefan Bradl on a private bike to cheer at, then why only 52,000 to see Merc, Nico,Seb,Nico etc? Maybe Moto GP is presenting a better show? Both series are being dominated, in fact Moto is being more dominated by Marquez than either Hammy or Nico are doing in F1? Curious eh?

      2. RShack,

        You have to check this out:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_Truck_Simulator_2

        It was on the BBC “Click” program for twenty minutes the other day. Along with farm tractor and similar Sims. (I grew up with best friends and neighbors as farmers, and I’m sticking to my excuse..) Sadly, oh, so sadly, I knew long before the BBC informed me. I tried the demo. I managed restraint: it’s kind of mesmerizing and becalming… and surprisingly popular. You don’t get to speed in the sim, not without perfectly simulated legal penalties… I wonder if that might attract attention to truck racing..

        1. Hilarious!

          The things people do…

          BTW, we have school bus races… on a figure-8 track! (in Florida… where insane things love to happen…)

          Son’s in the garbage biz… garbage being one thing we still make over here… I suggested he try to enter a garbage truck among the school buses… he thought videos of a garbage truck slamming into a school bus at speed is not the kind of PR they hope for…

          1. Hey, but cars crashing into a garage spewing forth a certain yellow animated family, and crazy stoned school bus drivers, are surely staple comedy diet, also? I mean, there must be a angle there, for the humor??! I mean, you know, for the kids??!!

            I’m afraid I downloaded the demo to Euro Truck Simulator, after I posted that…. I am sorry to report, it may have a certain quality about it… but I think what might get me hooked a while, is how realistic it is, and how useful it might be to virtually drive a few routes, before next heading across the channel with a party in the car… I’ve restrained myself to just piddling about, and not found yet to what extent you can just drive any simulated route you may chose, but that aspect, touring planning, I think might turn out to be useful. I mean, in theory, it is really very useful indeed. Too many friends have had nasty, even crippling, accidents, driving on the continent. Two old school friends with more metal in them than should ever be, one old buddy with a big ol’ plate in his skull. Reckon we should populate the roads with national stereotypical AI drivers, eh? That’s be a proper laugh. Noted, Euro Truck is brought to us by a Swiss company … can they claim immunity to virtual road rage jingoism?

            How strange the world, how sweet it is to know we are sometimes the strangest part. I am sure sometimes, that the first words uttered by alien life, encountering this planet of human beings, were “WTF?”. Were, not because of time machines, or past invasions or whatever, though boy do I think there could have been a long con joke involved*, but because of the how likely it is they would think “oh, no, Nobody ever better see this… if They see *this*, we’ll never get any more grant funds.. ever…”

            I am absolutely now off to the YouTube to look for school bus figure eight racing! Lol, in anticipation, you made my day!

            *”Paul”, a very easy fun silly flick: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1092026/

  15. When you watch the whole season on the box, you see that many stadiums are not full by any means, not just Germany. To label this as only a Germanic issue, is imho, to put one’s head in the sand and not see the wider picture.
    I don’t watch football in the UK, but one does see bits of reports on the news programmes, and again, when the cameras sweep, there can be clearly seen some empty patches. Again, Football rarely if ever talks of this, some reporters make comments, but the mainstream response always seems to be that there is no crowd drop off problem. We will see I guess.
    As to German fans, I think that up to recently, and certainly prior to reunification, German circuits used to get a more than reasonable fill of spectators. I don’t remember Hockenheim or the Old Nurburgring being short of fans for races, be they F1, F2 or Saloons or whatever.
    I would venture to say that if people are turning away it is more to do with the product and the pricing of the product, than to do with the class or type of person who might wish to spectate.

    1. It depends rather on the size of the stadiums, doesn’t it? You can look at Indianapolis and see empty seats as well. That is because it is so big. That is certainly true in Shanghai and at the Nurburgring.

      1. Am I misremembering, or did they draw only 60K at the Nurburgring last year? This year’s attendance doesn’t seem that much different. Why wasn’t there worry then?

        Perhaps Schumi-frenzy masked the impact of absurd ticket prices… and now the market for tickets in Germany has adjusted to seeing those prices more clearly.

        It’s clear that Bernie has never worried about pricing the fan base out of the races. Do others in F1 care about this?

      2. Yes Joe, but with Indy in particular, they have already trod the road to nowhere, with teams & organisers fighting each other, and ignoring what the fans want.
        CART had possibly the best open wheel racing series in the world, before Tony George & Indy screwed it. The decline of CART and the rubbish that was Indycar followed, and the fans went awol.
        Even with the new 2.2lt turbo engines a sop to greener races, the series has lost it’s base, and is in a muddle. There is a lesson for F1 to learn in all of that, but no one seems to want to listen/hear?
        What fans want, is not what the FIA,Marques,CVC?Bernie and the rest of the F1 “bubble” wants, and the big problem is that when fans leave a sport, it is very hard to re-engage them.
        I know you like the high tech greenie stuff that we have this year, and initially lots of people shouted loudly how nice it was that F1 was somehow greener ( which in fairness it really isn’t ), but the question is, how many of the Green Brigade still attend/turn on the box? My suspicion is that now they have what they want, they have moved on to some other sport with their green agenda.

        1. Yes, you’re right. CART in the day was very good racing; I was a huge fan, attended races, and watched on TV. After the split my interest waned and I haven’t watched a race in years. Definitely a warning to F1 of what can happen.

          And thanks Joe, a readable and enjoyable post.

          1. I too haven’t paid much attention to Indycar since the destructive split… until just this year.

            Say what you wish about the equipment, the racing has been great. Plus, it’s frequently been buttocks-clenching exiting! (7-wide on an oval? 4-wide on a street course?) A pleasant surprise for me.

            And (unless you focus on the Carpenter team) just like CART used to, it does require both car and driver to have a much wider set of abilities than does F1.

            Plus, they can do things like change rear wings and fix broken suspensions during a (long) pit stop… plus, the drivers aren’t muzzled and above-it-all… plus, you can afford to go watch them if you want. All in all, it reminds one of what’s wrong with F1…

            1. You do have a valid point but the One Make Dallara part completely disinterests me from following it, same with GP2..GP3, even F3. One Make racing is the single biggest mistake in motor racing, as there are a lot of us who like drivers, ( I was a big Thackwell & Bellof F2 fan ) but also love to follow a team, such as Toleman in F2, and Maurer, and all the other different marques we used to have, Martini & Pygmee to name two others. That variety is essential for me, and others. Penske was a really great CART team when I knew it built it’s cars 10 miles from me in Poole. Having said that it was also a great team when it used McLaren cars in F1 and Indycars, and took Porsche to CanAm, although sadly Porsche caused the eventual collapse of that series in my opinion.

              1. One make series take away as much of careers as multiple constructor series can give, IMO. Of course, F1 has way much politics, but in one make series, how do you hold out for a rookie, to get the breaks, the same way? I prefer the drama, for all who have sadly ended up, undeservedly, with tribute on F1Rejects website…

  16. Great view point Joe and one I completely agree with. Do you think there are any other nations within the F1 circus that have the same potential issue?

  17. Joe – you mentioned Hulkenberg. Are there any rumours doing the rounds that might suggest one of the bigger teams might pick him up for 2015 or has he now missed his chance ?

  18. Just a further point to consider Joe, is that Vettel for example, has a similar background to Schumacher. Michael’s dad was a bricklayer, Seb’s was a carpenter, both tradesmen, and in the past would be considered as working class, and Michael never courted publicity for his family life either, so the thought that Germans can’t connect with Seb, as they might have with Schuey, doesn’t stack up imho.
    And in any event, why should knowing about Seb’s personal home life, or that of any driver, make any difference at all? I well remember Jochen Rindt at Chrystal Palace, where he made his mark with his superb driving. That performance settled me as a Rindt fan, to this day, although of course, his untimely demise wrought havoc on that relationship. Having said that, I never had the slightest interest in what he did on his days off, or at home. All I wanted to hear of/see, was his driving which was exciting, and his awesome speed and racecraft. I don’t think any the less of Seb V because he lives in Switzerland or whatever, everyone is entitled to a private life, and that should not impact on their popularity in general.

  19. The simple answer to why Germans are not going is the cost of tickets – only somewhere special like Spa is worth paying over £400 for a seat on Saturday and Sunday, not anodyne Herman tracks with no history. I went to Spa for over ten year but was gradualy priced out of wanting to get wet and muddy and so stopped, while my friends are off to Hungary where stopping in a hotel and flying works about the same as the Channel, Camping and Spa Tickets.

  20. Interesting, because I just bought tickets for the Friday free practice for the Hungarian Grand Prix and could hardly get any. Only the most expensive grandstands offer seats as of now.

    Not sure what it is going to mean in reality, but it is even more interesting considering the fact that the event will most likely suffer a loss of audience due to the Austrian GP took some of the “heat” away.

    I was watching the NASCAR race at the Nürburgring last weekend and there seemed to be more people being present there than at the Saturday F1 qualifying at Hockenheim. That was quite shocking.

  21. As someone who has close connections to the German racing scene, I am able to offer my view on the lack of spectators at Hockenheim. Firstly the ‘Schumacher effect’ has gone, as this generation of fans has matured, got married, had kids and bought houses, which means the new (Vettel/Rosberg) generation (whose wages have stagnated over the last 15 years) have in effect less disposable income to spend on F1 than in the 90’s. This brings me on to my second point, the ticket prices. This year a weekend Grandstand seat in the silver category was close to €500 or 1000 DM in old money, I remember paying only 400DM for a top seat at Nürburgring in 2001. When you also consider I’m not earning double my 2001 salary then you can see how much more of my disposable income I’m spending to line Bernie’s pockets.
    The third big factor is the scheduling. In the good old days the German GP was always either the last weekend in July or first week in August, i.e. after most states’ summer holidays have started. This year Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria, Rheinland-Pfalz and Saarland all break up on the 25 July, so most families with school-age kids couldn’t attend on Friday. Also the German Truck Grand Prix was held the very same weekend at Nürburgring, this attracted 170,000 (one hundred and seventy thousand) spectators, who get open access, lots of on- and off-track entertainment and family-friendly admission prices, so I’m hardly surprised they vote with their feet.
    Add to this the new hybrid engines which are nowhere near as loud as the old V8 naturally aspirated powerplants (the lack of an F1 “sound” has been a big discussion topic in the German motorsport press since the season started) and also Hockenheimring deciding to ban camera lenses over 250mm (another big source of irritation for the thousands of amateur snappers who attend Hockenheim), you can begin to understand the low attendance compared to previous years…

    1. 250mm on am MFT camera is equivalent to 500mm on a film SLR, and even pros don’t often pack more reach than that.

      Unfortunately though, the trend has been for compact super zooms with very small sensors, and therefore much bigger multipliers of effective focal length compared with film or “full frame” digital, to advertise the built in lens in film//FF equivalents.

      So you get extremism like 28-700mm cameras. I’m just making that number up, but many are bigger than 20* zoom ranges, so not far off. Therefore this rule arbitrarily penalizes normal guys who have a modest “do it all” consumer camera.

      Then they can’t take ANY photos, as, being normal people, they’re not packing backup cameras. Sheesh… did anyone think this through? You going to roll up with buddies and family and be told, sorry, nope, you’re not taking any pictures this weekend?

      That might have had a bigger impact on sales than first thought.

      But I could presumably roll up with one of these: http://www.olympus.co.uk/site/en/c/lenses/digital_slr_lenses/top_pro_lenses/zuiko_digital_ed_90_250mm_128/index.html and get away with it?

      (just checked the superzoom compacts, give or take a couple mm either end, my guess was not bad. %rolls eyes% ouch you need hellish good technique to get shots out of the extremes of that, and blazing daylight also as very small apertures only…. The thing is that they make these cameras look like SLRs, and they’re not by any means… but hey, tricked TPTB at Hockenheim, no?)

      1. Doh, of course, camera phones, the universal backup camera. But for a GP weekend? Nah, still a nasty stupid little rule they have there…

      1. Per my above comment, which is probably not easy to figure unless you have some experience, High power telephoto lenses are the province of professionals, historically. Pros will wield potentially, 300mm, 400mm, 500mm 600mm 800mm lenses. By the time you reach the high end, well Nikon sell maybe a few hundred 800mm lenses.

        A medium telephoto zoom is 70-200mm.

        That’s already some fair reach, if you frame right or crop.

        But a 70-200mm lens, even a professional one costing thousands, still does not get you those iconic long shots of cars down a straight, nor give you the positional flexibility to capture spy shots, nor tight images of a car filling the screen, form a distance.

        Above 200mm, in professional lenses, there are no big jumps much, but a 300mm lens is considered a exotic, and above that, everything is rarer and more specialized.

        Therefore, the restrictions exist nominally to protect the real pro photographers, who can invest tens of thousands of pounds in a lens or two. Forget the investments, those are the shots that promote the sport best, and if you undercut the professional crowd, you make a mistake. Only, in the situation in which this is applied, nothing like that is ever going to happen. Pro shooter with 400/2.8, basically twenty grand swinging around his neck, as just one of the cameras he brought, is not worried about weekend shooter compact user with a “nominal” 500mm lens on a 300 dollar compact.

        Rather stupidly, they have been applied arbitrarily, as a number restriction, to small consumer cameras, which advertise the same “ability” whilst having nothing of the same ability.

        Track promoters have displayed only a consummate ignorance of a constituency they ought to better cater for: photographers, whether pro or am.

    2. “also Hockenheimring deciding to ban camera lenses over 250mm (another big source of irritation for the thousands of amateur snappers who attend Hockenheim)”

      Wow, that’s really silly of them. Whats next, smart phones banned in case you upload a photo to Facebook? The anal retentive bean counters of F1 are killing their Golden Goose it seems.

      1. Somewhat similar to F1’s attitude to social media – they seem to have plenty of time to block unauthorised video footage on youtube, but don’t actually appear to put any of their own on, or provide streaming/downloadable content for fans.
        I concede that the camera thing issue is Hockenheim as opposed to the FIA, but as Joe has said in the past, F1 needs to start being more fan-friendly rather than worrying about fans filming/photgraphing things. I understand wanting to protect TV rights, but what about the huge resource of past footage which is more or less unobtainable?

    3. I thought Vettel was pretty similar to Schumacher, actually; but cleaner and less gladiatorial. All his controversy came from fighting Webber.

      Rosberg seems like a very nice lad, him and Sutil may have a touch of the dandy about them but they’re cosmopolitan Europeans, and those have a long tradition in Formula One.

      The biggest moans about Hockenheim this year (on social media at least) seemed to be about money.

    4. “…and also Hockenheimring deciding to ban camera lenses over 250mm…”

      Today, my copy of Motor Sport arrived in the mail and in it, I read a comment by Nigel Roebuck that a driver at Le Mans this year had been given a 3 minute stop/go penalty because he had ‘momentarily spun his wheels – although not broken the speed limit – while exiting the pits at his previous stop.’

      It seems that just about every week I read of some new nutty rule, regulation. decision or restriction in motor racing.

      Next thing, someone will propose to ban F1 journalists from the grid before the start. 😉

  22. Although I want F1 to be hugely popular everywhere, sometimes I don’t really mind when there’s less of the people with few skills with cutlery around, drinking beer and not enjoying the same factors in F1 as I do.
    Call me elitist, but I don’t buy into “simple” idolatry of drivers (one of the things that sooner or later always turns me away from US racing). Rosberg for example, is indeed a complex and intelligent person. If that makes him less popular, I don’t mind. Too much popularity often seems to leads to fanboyism.
    At the end of the day, they too are merely mortal humans.

    1. That sounds rather snobbish, but I get your point. Unfortunately, if your view is mirrored by the FIA/CVC/Bernie, which seems to be the case, then ultimately it will be just you and a few mates left watching! Back in the day at Brooklands, they used to say ” the right crowd, and no crowding”, however as modern sport relies on sponsors who want to see crowds enjoying the sport they sponsor, so that the sponsor can bask in the reflected glory of it all, then a lack of crowds becomes a huge problem.
      It is also an issue for the Manufacturers that F1 relies on, for engines. The Board Directors are spending £ Millions/Billions, and if they see empty stadiums and a lack of fans, they will very soon ask the race team and advertising dept, if they are wasting their money, and should they go elsewhere with their money? Don’t forget that M-B & Renault can’t throw money around recklessly, without powerful Unions in Germany & France, getting shirty about it. The effect is less of a problem to Ferrari, who don’t advertise their goods. M-B are reported to be opening talks with Hammy over renewing his contract, which still has 18 months to go, so they say. Let’s say they rejig it and his term finishes in a further 18 months, so at the end of 2017 if M-B have won their 4 title in a row, and audiences are still falling, then the M-B Board might well say enough, we can retire unbeaten, and carry on without F1. If F1 can muster fans and bring back past fans, that scenario would seem less likely.

  23. It couldn’t “possibly” be due to anything the sport is doing wrong? The TV numbers also being well down is a sheer coincidence?

    No doubt some will continue to deny it’s anything to do with the sport, even as the ship slowly sinks.

    1. Open your eyes. This was in Germany. Were the grandstands empty in Austria, Silverstone, Canada or Monaco? etc etc etc

      1. When you look on the tv, the cameras pick up empty points at most circuits now. Monaco is Monaco, people cram the place just to say they have been, Canada has always been popular ( so I guess Bernie will drop it soon ), Austria hadn’t been run for 10 years or so, therefore it was bound to be packed. As for Silverstone, I saw tickets advertised during the whole of race week, if it was full, there should not have been ticket availability? I think Random is raising his head over the trench here, and whilst I respect your view Joe, and your long time association with the sport, ( hell I am pretty sure I can remember you doing Euro F3 reports 30 years back or so! ), at the same time you are wrapped in the paddock, and inside the bubble.
        Inside that bubble, it looks like few people have even contemplated that there just might be some problems for F1 attracting viewers and on circuit spectators. If all those inside F1, and that includes those reporting on it, do not listen to the core fans ( those that Bernie doesn’t give a flying fig for ), then when it all goes terribly pear shaped, as it is starting to show signs of, you will only have yourselves to blame….don’t blame us because we tried to warn you all!

        1. “When you look on the tv, the cameras pick up empty points at most circuits now”

          You are aware that people do go to the restroom and vendors from time to time, right? As Joe mentioned, there’s no arguing that some races attract more fans than others (such as Montreal, Austria [this year], Silverstone, Monza compared to Shanghai, Bahrain, Germany). The sport as a whole (teams, FIA, promoter/Bernie, race organizers, drivers) should do some serious thinking as to why this happens and what to do about it.

          It is also worth acknowledging that some races are likely to never be able to compete with others in a popularity contest.

          1. Yes, of course attendees do leave their seats to rent a beer or dispose of the last one… but they don’t do that in lockstep an entire block of seats at a time…

            1. Lol, “rent” a beer. You mean mortgage one, Shirley? That was the thing about the big camping crowds at Hockenheimring of old, the campers could liquefy their diet out of the way of nosey circuit officials. Not so, now, and anyone is surprised the regular guys are less up for a party? When I was a teen, there was a real downer word for a failed evening, “well, so and so is having a barty”. Bar+party obviously. For the sake of the venue, and then it was mostly kings’ road and fulham crowd, those were not fun evenings. None of my mates were exactly poor, but we felt taxed.

      2. I grant you Austria, Silverstone, Monaco, and Canada… each for its own special reasons.

        It’s the “etc., etc., etc.” I’m having a hard time with.

        p.s. I’m guessing Austin will fall of a bit more again this year… we’ll see…

  24. My friend and colleague Andrew Marriott, who has been doing race commentaries for a non-mainstream TV channel, tells me that when the DTM goes to Hockenheim it draws an 80,000 crowd for the Spring meeting and as many as 120,000 for the Autumn race. He and I think that the deciding factor is not so much the personality of the drivers (or the lack thereof) as much as the cost of the tickets.

      1. Foolishly, no, I hadn’t read DT’s end-piece about Hockenheim attendances when I wrote the above, although I have now. Apologies all round. Interesting that DT and I seem to have discovered similar figures for attendances at DTM events there. If it is true, as The Hack suggested this week, that the current deal with Hockenheim requires the CRH to compensate the local municipality for any losses on the Grand Prix, can we assume that on this occasion, for once, a disappointing crowd will actually have attracted Bernie’s attention?

        1. I don’t remember much problem with crowd size when Mad Ronald was doing his stuff in his Lotus 72…do you Mike? By the way, pleasure to see you here, as a kid I used to read your Motoring News reports avidly!

    1. I totally agree. I baulked when I got the 2014 Hockenheim order form in January. Even with only 2-Day meetimgs, the DTM is far better value for money…

  25. Paying 1000 Euros to bring your family to a F1 race is madness. If the F1 powers do not understand the absurdity of the prices they ask, then they deserve to fail and the slide in spectator numbers will continue.

      1. The implication being that Ecclestone’s profit is modest and the circuit organisers are ripping off the fans.

        1. No. The implication is that Bernie does deals on the basis that the promoters think that they can achieve what they are agreeing to. If they did not agree to it, there would not be deals, would there? If the promoters then choose to squeeze the fans (assuming that people think the tickets are too expensive) rather than talking the local government into helping out (as they do with other big sporting events), then I do not see how one can blame Ecclestone. If the promoters said they could not do it and do not sign the contracts then races would drop out of the championship and Bernie would have to find other clients.

          1. Funnily enough, I don’t blame Ecclestone –
            Much like the teams, the promoters don’t appear to have the nous to join together as a bargaining entity and consequently will continue to lose out. It remains to be seen how long the more indulgent fans will support their lack of ‘corporate’ competitiveness.

      2. Who in turn have to charge so much to recoup their outlay for the honour of hosting a GP ! 1000 Euros is absurd. Something HAS to change or this sport is gradually gonna slide into nowhere. We discussed this at length at your London ‘An audience with..’.

      3. F1 circuits are not and will never (hopefully) be of the giant USA speedway ilk. Most F1 circuits have capacities around the 100,000 to 150,000 mark. With the amounts Bernie charges (and seeing as he keeps all the trackside advertising and hospitality profits) that puts the cost per spectator at between $150 and $300, depending on the capacity of any one circuit and the deal that they have brokered with BCE.

        Silverstone, for example, has a capacity of about 150,000 and a race fee of around (and I haven’t calculated out the yearly escalator or recent GBP-USD exchange rate, so this may be off by a few percent) $25m. That’s an average cost of $167 per head. General admission tickets this year were the equivalent of $280, so you can see that the mark up (which any commercial operator needs to pay the bills, maintain the circuit, and make a profit!) is significantly less than 50% of the basic ticket price.

        Silverstone is very much a best-case-scenario as it is one of the larger venues and has one of the smallest FOM fees. For some of the other European circuits the base cost of a ticket is far higher, and the vast majority of the ticket price is what ends up in CVC’s metaphorical back pocket.

        Bernie most certainly does set the prices for fans. If his slice of the pie were smaller the circuits struggling to attract punters could drop their prices, that would create competition for spectators between the European races, and all prices would drop as a result.

      4. >> It is not Bernie who sets the prices for the fans. He sets the
        >> prices for the circuits.

        Oh, come on, Joe… it amounts to the same thing.

    1. It’s not all that mad when you consider it’s a once a year event. Also there’s general admission…

      However, as a fan that crams attending an F1 race weekend into a weeklong vacation, I would ask: Is Hockenheim worth an annual 1000 euro splurge, or would I rather use the opportunity to catch a race somewhere else (say Silverstone, Monza, etc.)

      Another point to note, when Alonso retires, who’s going to keep attendance up at the Spanish grand prix? Don’t see anyone in the horizon that could keep the passion going there.

      1. As Alguersuari has fallen by the wayside, pick one from Carlos Sainz Jr, Roberto Merhi or Daniel Juncadella.. one to join Toro Rosso in 2015, while the others reside on Mercedes’ junior program..

    1. The business model is the business model. It is not Bernie who sets the prices for fans. He sets the prices for circuits.

      1. You can’t blame the circuits if Bernie is overcharging them for the races. Many races are government subsidised, and when the particular government loses interest, the race drops from the schedule. If European circuits didn’t charge what they have to, then they could not run the series. It’s not in anyway a sensible or logical business model, except for making huge sums of cash over a short period of time and then shutting down.Ultimately, it is down to Bernie. If circuits can’t find the bums to pay for the seats, at the prices he is forcing them to pay, then the series just disappears. Yes, short term he can find some odd State that will run his race for a few years, but the core fans will have gone, and all that will be left will be casual viewers. That is not sustainable. I run a business, if I overcharge my weekly buyers, they will not come in, and will go elsewhere. I could not run my business relying on just drop in customers, and F1 is no different really. There are serious issues here, that should be being discussed by the FIA, the teams, Bernie & CVC and the Sponsors. To that list one should add the Circuit Owners, and the Fans. If it isn’t sorted then soon it will be too late to sort.

        1. Bernie’s view is that he sells a deal to a promoter who reckons he can raise the money. If they cannot do it, he does not see it as his fault. he also believes that public money is justifiable because of the value that F1 brings to regions. I agree with that.

          1. The problem is that the deal he offers goes up every year ( except Monaco as I understand it ), and the costs have to rise for the spectators every year too, and they, the spectators, are not as flush with cash as Bernard is!
            The argument for Public Money input, might have a slight justification, although this is not my belief. However, it is difficult to see how a circuit can for example, ask the UK Government for a cash subsidy, when the Teams are throwing money around like it’s Monopoly Money, and Bernard & CVC are hiking tens of £millions from it. Korea won’t go bust because F1 isn’t there, neither will Turkey or India. Come to think of it Long Beach hasn’t collapsed into terminal decline, nor Las Vegas, and Imola is still much the same ( or it was 3 years ago when I last passed by ), so to say that F1 brings a huge value to a region, really doesn’t ring the bell much anymore, particularly after the last 6 years that we have all endured from the financial crash, which only now is catching up with F1. Therein is the real problem, F1 spends it’s time on navel gazing and blue sky thinking….not on the realities of keeping it’s fans satisfied and without buyers, there is no business!

              1. Monaco gets to sell their own trackside adverts, though, and a few other smaller things I forget. That was when Monaco last got serious it was unhappy with things, and I think the FISA // FOCA mess was straining also at that, and Bernie needed to close Monaco on a deal for his plans.

      2. The prices Bernie sets for the circuits have gradually been killing the circuits. The rest of the year is spent paying for hosting the GP, even with the GP prices set extortionately high and some races being sponsored by a Spanish bank. The Nurburgring is on its second or third bankruptcy (or similar event) Hockenheim is also rumoured to be on the brink and with dismal turnouts such as last weekend’s, a calendar devoid of any German GP is looking likelier.

        Obviously Bernie is well aware of the above and in compensation has planned increasingly distant or unsavoury venues where sovereign support is available. His attitude to the traditional/nostalgic value of the great circuits is similar to his of the less well off teams, basically, let them sink, we will have more rich teams cars, lets have more rich man’s venues.

        1. In the end, it seems Bernie values temporary sustenance over building stability and longevity. One could argue the merits of both approaches; however, in the meantime we have venues that are losing out.

          I agree that you can’t really blame Bernie for the circuits agreeing to terms they can’t sustain… but I don’t think its fair. As you have argued before, Joe, NASCAR has a different way of handling the business side of things, and it appears to makes more sense to me.

  26. Hi Joe,

    Franz Tost has echoed your recent calls about the lack of positive PR from F1 (and those associated):

    “There are many fans all over the world who seem to like the racing in its new format, with many positive comments. I believe Formula One is now going in the right direction, but as a whole there should be a bigger push to inform the public, so that the people who watch the races, either at the track or on TV, can have a better understanding of the new, exciting and futuristic technology that has come to Formula One” – formula1.com

  27. Well I’m going to the Australian GP next year (maybe the last) it’s costing around $2000 for two for four days. five minute walk to the circuit or the pub, it;s a matter of turning left or right.
    It is expensive but I don’t go every year so I splash out a bit when I do go. I don’t think the cost is the only or the main issue for poor attendances. Cultural change is defiantly a part of it.
    Rugby League and Cricket crowds have been dropping steadily for decades in Aus. AFL and Soccer are going up and the GP is holding its own quite well, so what is the issue with the other races that on the face of it should be pulling great crowds.
    In my opinion we don’t have much great motor racing in Aus at the moment so maybe that is part of the reason for continued good support at the GP.

  28. Here in the US northeast, the Tudor sports car series chose to race at Watkins Glen in New York rather than Lime Rock in Connecticut. Thus, they removed themselves by many hours driving time from the NY and Boston metropolitan areas. The result was appallingly empty grandstands for the race. It was painful to watch.

    From the Bronx, the Tiffany of baseball teams, The Yankees, built themselves a new stadium to replace its storied home. The new joint is anodyne and astronomical ticket prices mean many empty seats, especially near the field where the camera is pointed. The result is a quiet crowd of posh types, and an attempt by the TV director to only show the playing field. The show(which includes enjoying the crowd and feel of just being there) stinks now, whether you’re watching at home or listening on radio, or even at the stadium. And I’ve stopped paying attention.

    Beware, Bernie.

    1. You can’t compare the Tudor decision to leave Lime Rock to any situation with Bernie playing his game with GP promoters. Lime Rock, as pretty as it is – is at best an SCCA Regional venue with woeful facilities for teams and facilities for entertaining sponsors. Paddock space is a joke, The track is too short – a 45 second lap is ridiculous – you may as well run around on a half mile oval. There seems to be a cult of worship concerning Barbers ownership of the place with his ‘put a coat of paint’ on the place and keep selling tickets no matter the condition of the guardrails, the lack of runoff in places etc. I get that it’s near major population centers and the Glen is not. But the key point here is that the region (and Lime Rock) hasn’t kept up with the rest of the racing world. You can’t have it both ways – old world charm and 21st century standards can you? Yes the Glen was poorly attended – this has everything to do with who owns the track as well as the series. Like their NASCAR cousins who race on ‘company’ tracks in markets now hit hard by the economy, the Glen suffered from the same issues that a lot of other ISC owned tracks are suffering from in the NASCAR series. Had Lime Rock been expanded and modernized or a completely new track built in the North East – then there would have been a high probability of a race in the region. Everyone knew the first year Tudor schedule would be a reduced one and that only four key events were cast in stone and that every other Grand Am and ALMS track had to complete against each other for the remaining dates. What did Skip really think would happen in this new reality of 2014? Three choices: stay at the minor level track it is without change; Skip sells out to someone who will rebuild the place; or someone else builds a new facility in the region that Tudor can race at. Those are the choices. Pick one – but don’t blame a race series for a track owners failure to keep up.

  29. The reasons why the German crowd did not show up is simple . Fact is its the very same reason why NO F1 race for the last five years has had what can be considered a reasonably successful attendance . First and foremost is cost . Second … this being the very reason why to date 2014 F1’s TV audience has diminished by some 60 million [ and growing ] worldwide .

    It is no longer a Sport but rather has become a manufactured and scripted spectacle .

    Third … is not in fact due to the World Cup which was over and done with by the time of the German Grand Prix … but rather the Tour de France which over the years …. and especially this year has become a much more enjoyable and engaging ‘ Sporting ‘ event than F1 is at present . Fact is as so many fans have stated worldwide that even three years ago could of been counted on to attend at least one F1 race if not several [ including me ] . It is ironic that six hours of bicycle racing at 30 mph or less has now become infinitely more interesting and exciting than 90 minutes of F1 at 100 mph or more .

    Once again supporting my current mantra of ; Two Wheels Good … Four Wheels Bad

    Looking at todays headlines about the announced Double Points for the last F1 race of the year only guaranteeing that the above remain the status quo …. for the foreseeable 😉

    F1 . The ‘ new ‘ NASCAR . Minus the body work . Taking note that in fact NASCAR’s attendance and TV audience is on a severe decline as well

    Finally Joe … no insult intended … but you insinuate that those who dare to criticize F1 have an agenda . Which begs the question ;

    What exactly is your agenda ?

    1. “The reasons why the German crowd did not show up is simple”. Jeez, it must be nice to know all the answers… I’ve been covering this sport day-by-day for 30 years and I don’t make claims like that. As to my agenda, you have been reading this blog for long enough to know, if you pay attention. My agenda is to provide a sensible and well-researched view on the state of F1, that at the same time informs and amuses the fans who come here to read what I write. I also give people the chance to engage with the sport – which is what I am doing with you right now.

      If you don’t like F1 then then don’t watch it. Vote with your feet. I still like it and I think that it is very healthy, allowing for a few changes that would improve the situation. I get very tired of all the Jonahs out there saying that “the end of the world is nigh”. It is not nigh at all. I firmly believe that F1 will still be around in one form or another when I am old and grey. It need to address some faults but time cures most things and I don’t see any form of motorsport that is likely to knock F1 over. From what I am hearing from the US, NASCAR is about to get messy with a team union versus popping up to annoy NASCAR and its allies.

      If you think you know all the answers, then I suggest you put them on a postcard and send them to Bernie. I am sure that he will write back personally and thank you for your inspiring help.

        1. Kind of funny . In 1996 I sent Bernie a fax ( remember them?) and he actually DID answer. We had a friendly back and forth chat that consisted of about six or eight faxes.

  30. Hi Joe !

    You touched on Russia and Putin. I can’t help thinking that at this stage of the game, Russia would be more of a black eye to F1 than an attribute.

    1. That is a perfectly sensible feeling. However, will it stop these people from going? They don’t seem to understand the concept that perception is reality and so they will go anywhere where there is money. If the sponsors kick up a fuss they will not go, but there are some double standards going on there because lots of these firms want to do business with Russia.

  31. I believe the drop in motor race attendance is, for the most part, due to demographics. The population of Europe and North America are aging. It’s not just F1 that the numbers are dropping. NASCAR tracks are taking seats out; Indy car audiences are way down and both these series are fairly priced. The Toronto Indy (last weekend) was $350.00 for the best seats, pit passes and full paddock access. It was a double header weekend with a full race on Saturday and another on Sunday (actually the rain interfered with the plan) and still the crowds were small. I’m 55 and my enthusiasm for the 5 hour drive to Montreal, to drop wad of money and arrive at home exhausted is waning. Many past regulars I know don’t go any longer.

    The other reality for F1 is the pricing. I was digging through my collection of ticket stubs and ran across the 1972 GP from Mosport. It was a “super ticket and included practice, qualifying, grandstand, pit and paddock for $15.00. At 4% annual inflation that ticket would cost $85.00 today. At Montreal I can’t go into the pits at any cost and I have to allow $1000.00 for the weekend, about $600.00 of that is the ticket. I have never taken my kids because they have never shown $600.00 worth of interest. Even if tickets were $200.00 I might have spent the money to see if the kids were interested after seeing it live (that’s what hooked me). I think cost has stopped a lot of F1 loving parents from introducing the next generation of fans. I’m not sure if I were in my 20’s today that I would have enough money to go to Montreal and I sure as hell wouldn’t scrimp and save just to see it live.

    1. Finally a sensible point of view…..

      Joe is always saying about engaging the younger generation and getting them interested in Formula 1.

      If you can’t afford to take your kids to see it live to spark that initial interest, how else do you create the interest?

      And don’t tell me social media…with such an enormously diverse world cramming for the fickle interests of the younger generation who get bored after 5 minutes of anything (I have kids so I speak from experience), formula 1 is lost at sea. If they are at a race, that is the overriding sensory experience (or was until they turned the volume off), not bling bling bling of a large twitter subscription list.

  32. Poor Monaco. First Jaques Villeneuve, who grew up there, called himself Canadian, now Rosberg called himself German. Interestingly, when either of them speak English, they have the same accent! I’ve heard that Nico has a foreign accent when he speaks German as well? So where the hell is a contemporary version of Louis Chiron anyway? He was proud of being a Monagasque.

    1. That’s a bit harsh on JV. He did live in Quebec for the first 7-8 years of his life, and headed back there again to start his racing career. Both his parents and all his grandparents were Quebequois, and presumably he visited the province on many occasions even after his parents had dragged him off to Europe. To my ear, bearing in mind I used to live less than 1km from the Ontario-Quebec border, Villeneuve has a fairly distinctively Quebecker accent with just a few of the edges softened off by his international lifestyle.

      Chiron was barking mad, so I’m not sure that anyone should be using his example!

    2. Villeneuve does not “call himself Canadian”, he is Canadian. Bred and born. He has spent more of his life living in Canada then Europe and lives here now. His accent, when speaking English, is Quebecois

      1. According to the Toronto Sun Villeneuve upped sticks last year and moved to Andorra, because of Quebec’s “morose ambiance”! Still, the only times I have ever met him were at Circuit Mont Tremblant so he clearly did spend quite a bit of time here until recently. (Thank goodness for historic race meetings, where they still allow punters to mingle with the drivers in the paddock… imagine.)

    1. This is true but the German motor racing fans have always enjoyed going to the old Ring and drinking beer in their tents when not indulging in lustful pleasures with their girlfriends! The old Ring is not so much a motor race as a big weekend in the woods.

      1. That could well be a description of Hockenheim, too, not so many years ago.

        In total, most spectators there probably watch at least the equivalent of 90 minutes’ action. And the rest involves indulging in ‘social skills’.

        Dismissing the Nürburgring 24H parallel would be like describing Le Mans as a minor motor racing fixture because the grandstands there are by no means full for the majority of the race. It still draws more than 200,000 people year-in, year-out and the curve is going upward (more than 250,000 this year), whereas F1 races don’t attract that many people and the curve is presently downward bound.

        My point is that it’s not all of motor racing that is losing its appeal, whatever the reasons are for people making the decision to attend a race – or not. There are a whole host of factors that influence that decision and the sum of those factors is turning people away from the German GP and not turning them away from the Nürburgring.

        What is (are) that (those) missing ingredient(s)?

        And you can’t say that it was national interest that drew all those spectators to Le Mans to watch this year’s battle between Audi, Porsche and Toyota. True, one of the winning drivers is a Frenchman, but he isn’t a household name by any stretch of the imagination.

        1. Yep, its just F1, not motorsports in general the N24 and Truck GP draw vast numbers of spectators. Maybe the WEC will return to the Nürburgring too as this is one country Audi & Porsche can’t afford to ignore.

        2. The thing is Chris, that the F1 Bubble is now starting to see a problem that has loomed for the last several years. Interestingly for me, the people who have voiced their concerns seem limited to Lauda ( who should know a bit about F1 over the last 40yrs ), Toto Wolff, who is a newcomer to the series, and Briatore, who for all his abject faults, was saying that F1 was going the wrong way around 10 yrs ago!
          It still seems to me that the Bubble in general, doesn’t understand what is going on, and to a degree doesn’t care about it, as they are so engrossed in their Bubble, they think that what are crowd and audience problems, will just vanish, particularly if no one talks about it. So the answer they have, so it seems, is just talk up the series, and all the problems with go away….bit Alice in Wonderland if you ask me, but then I’m just a motorsport enthusiast, so my view doesn’t really count…….

        3. My point is that it’s not all of motor racing that is losing its appeal, whatever the reasons are for people making the decision to attend a race – or not. There are a whole host of factors that influence that decision and the sum of those factors is turning people away from the German GP and not turning them away from the Nürburgring.

          What is (are) that (those) missing ingredient(s)?

          This is actually a great and proper question, and I’m sure Joe S would agree, the fact that F1 uses neither proper market research nor data analytics to understand its audience and its competitors and provide the best, most relevant entertainment (sportS) product probably gets in the way of FOM even knowing what it is that it doesn’t know.

          Chew on that…FOM doesn’t have a marketing dept. and hasn’t! Yet F1 wants to compete for eyes & $$s w/ sports and other entertainment properties that do?

  33. What are the chances of the Russian grand-prix not happening? Now that all this has happened…

    It was a questionable location before (as much as I can’t not want F1 in my own country), the cards are piling up against it even more – but then again, F1 goes to Bahrain (and, well, China) despite some rather grim things happening there from time to time. That inevitably leaves me wondering…

  34. Any chance the guy who runs the F1 show is standing trial in Germany for Bribery might have held the crowd size down? Seems just as plausible as unlikeable German drivers, to me anyway. Especially seeing as I find Seb and Nico extremely likeable myself. I’m not German though, so maybe Germans don’t like things about Germans that make Americans think they’re likeable. 😛

    In any case, apparently the Nurburgring has the German GP from 2015 on, so Hockenheim need not worry about crowd size and losing huge money on F1 anymore.

  35. A big silver arrows home coming was expected but I think the truth is that their home fans are not impressed by the easy walk the silver team is having.

    Hamilton was roared home at Silverstone after inheriting a win.

    The Germans want something more, this is too easy.

  36. Bernie’s bringing in Flavio to join a workgroup discussing how to make F1 more attractive!? You must be kidding me…

  37. Another excellent decision by CVC’s grovelling underlings! Flavio B to look at improving its popular appeal. He has a perfect track record in this regard. His last effort at this, in Singapore a few years back, generated a lot of media interest. (In any case, wasn’t he banned, prohibited, excluded and generally shut out of anything to do with Formula One????)

    1. GP+ has a large story this week about what F1 needs to do – none of it involving Flavio Briatore.

  38. great writing as usual, Joe.
    Just a point on attendances at all races. Plenty of people perhaps would love to go more often than the once we have to Malaysia, in 40 years of following F1. The tickets are far too expensive even to our ‘home’ Grand Prix in Melbourne. From Perth, (3 hrs from us) add airfares and hotel and the very poor coverage or commentary at the events….The sheer boredom of not much supporting entertainment, no decent food-stalls and hours in the traffic to airport, hotel, or home. Compare that to the mostly incredible live coverage on TV here, very knowledgeable F1 commentators and background info plus a warm armchair. Even though we were in the UK this July, we were not attracted by the Silverstone mud and traffic, choosing to watch it in from our hotel ‘en Paris’ with French commentary but no ads!
    Singapore is probably do-able from here, but being a night race in the rainy season it risks being cancelled every year!

  39. Nico tries hard to engage but he’s almost too perfect, speaks too many languages, looks like a Monaco beach bum and does not excite the average machine operator in Dortmund. They now idolize soccer players. The Hulk is never in the right car and Adrian Sutil is half-Uruguayan, plays the piano and does strange things with champagne glasses.

    This kind of writing is enjoyable to read and puts a smile on my face. Is it an example of dry humor or some wit particular to your nationality (which is? Canadian?)?

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