Wisdom and Russia

I am trying to understand the wisdom of F1 going to Russia this autumn. Yes, the Russian government has agreed to pay a rumored $60 million per year (with a 10 percent annual hike) to run a Grand Prix in Sochi. It is only money, but the folks at Formula One World Championship Ltd exist only to generate more revenues for the greedy private equity types who skulk in the shadows of the sport, sucking it dry. No chips are left on the table with these people. They do it for fun because they are all absurdly rich and have all the toys that anyone could wish for. It’s not the money that drives them, it is the game. Money is just a means of keeping score. So, ultimately, a wise man might say that once you have enough money to live well any further financial ambitions are simply ego, showing others that you are more able to make money than they are. Some would say that this is a sad state of affairs when one could be keeping busy with gentler pleasures or taking on different challenges: sharing one’s knowledge and money (a la Carnegie, Gates etc) with those less fortunate, going back to university, travelling the world, or more simple pleasures such as growing nice roses or vegetables, going fishing, having long lunches, playing with grandchildren, and generally doing relaxing things. Some do not have the imagination to look beyond what they know. Others are frightened of change.

Perhaps you cannot teach an old dog to do new tricks but F1 should at least try to behave decently and set a good example.

The problem with Russia (or most modern conflicts come to that) is that it is hard to know who to believe. We in the West are told that Ukrainian separatists with Russian missiles shot down the unfortunate Malaysian airliner. The other day In Hockenheim I had a discussion with a Russian colleague who fervently believes that the plane was shot down by the CIA, which he believes now runs the Ukraine government, because America wants to get a war going in Europe to weaken its economic rivals. This is not a stupid man, nor one who has not seen the world. His views are coloured perhaps by a period reporting in the Balkan wars. We went on to discuss whether it is really possible for either of us to know the truth. There is too much in history of governments doing bad stuff to get what they want. In the end, we shrugged and went our separate ways. I still tend to believe what I have read in the western press and I am sure he still believes what the Russian media is telling him.

Discretion is the better part of valour and so if one can dodge a problem before it arrives that is surely a sensible thing. Politics and sport are ill-matched bedfellows and it is best to avoid such relationships. Sport can be a means to heal rifts, but it can also be a propaganda tool. German domination of Grand Prix racing in the 1930s, for example, was designed to show off the power of the country’s technology. The 1936 Olympic Games is often held up as an example of sport being used for propaganda purposes.

How does one decide?

In the end, one has to be pragmatic. Right now, most of F1’s revenues come from liberal nations. If there is the perception among these people that Russia is the bad guy, then it is wise not to risk damaging the sport by insisting on doing something that people think is wrong. Perception is reality whether the perception be true or not. F1 and the FIA ought to have learned that lesson over Bahrain. The situation there was nowhere near as bad as it was portrayed, but the world believed it was and so F1 damaged its reputation. Perhaps this is a contributory reason to the troubles teams are having these days raising money.

If one spots what looks like an iceberg in the water, it is wise not to continue full steam ahead.

138 thoughts on “Wisdom and Russia

  1. We, the people in the neighborhood of this conflict (and the former Balkan wars) can only think of one thing:

    “Again?”

    BTW it has just been confirmed that the missle was indeed launched from the ground, but that wasn’t really a question, was it? Needed blind faith by anyone to believe it was a fighter jet.

  2. Nice perspective on a point of view. I don’t recall, after the USA shot down the Iranian airliner in 1988 (and admitted it), that there was any question of not racing in Phoenix the following year.

      1. It was admitted on the 28th July, 25 days after the incident. They admitted they mistook the A300 for an F14. I can’t see the current incident being resolved so neatly.

          1. For those who might wonder, the above was follow-up to a typo in a post Joe elected to not publish… not that he’s big on censorship, lord knows he’s not… maybe he thought he would be at risk of getting sued given the vaguely sourced info said post included… libel or slander, I forget which is which… true factoids, but not sufficiently documented to justify putting it on a blog that’s got his name on it, it’d be his legal bills, not mine… that’s my guess, anyway… (it’s Joe’s blog, Joe does what he wants, which is fine…)

            1. Just so you all understand. I block a few comments based on their libelous nature. I reject a few for being offensive and lacking respect and ine or two where the person is trying to use this blog for self-promotion. I don’t much like links for this reason but will allow some if they go to straight news sites.

              1. Just a general point on links, I usually prepend a link with a explanation of what it is, and if I can do so succinctly, some idea of the bias that might be expected.

                I think, as a result, I get a lot more comments published, with links, to non sporting topics, than almost anyone else. When I fail to explain why there should be a link there, usually the comment gets fairly sent to the bitbucket.

                Basically, if you, reading this comment, have a good idea why to follow a link, or not, then also Joe has a ready idea as to if it adds anything to the meaning of the comment, whether it is a simple reference for fact, or opinion, or flagged as example of propaganda. Under pressure to manage the comments, I am unsure whether Joe spends more of less time than a casual visitor, but it’s close, so a fair arbiter of attention and comprehension balance.

                As I’ve noted in more comprehensive comment, we are allowed to break the rules, time to time, and that governor valve of pressure really seems to work. But when veering off topic, it plain makes sense to announce what a link is about, and why it is relevant. Otherwise we start to dilute this site’s perception in the eyes of ranking algorithms, as well as casual visitors who may double take, and we’d be spilling the fresh value of all our contributions carelessly.

                Veering off topic is definitely not a privilege that can be earned. I can count on one hand, comments of mine, which I think genuinely “slipped through the net”, which I have regretted later, as being simply pointless.

                I’ve spent the past two weeks, looking into how Stack Overflow, a Q&A site for programming, which has expanded into some complimentary areas, operates. I think they have been the only success at managing a very large community of users. Nearly ranking among the top fifty websites on the net, for traffic, on a very tight and neat architecture (possibly using one percent of the equipment comparable sites do, and that only at ten percent typical load) they have rather show the way, to the idea you really can expand sites of communal interest. WordPress, with which I have, inside three months, become all too intimately acquainted, is not well suited to any kind of comparable expansion. Not impossible, I hope, or else I shall have to accept far less of a deal than I struck, and write it down to case study. It would be great if small communities like here, could hive away off topic discussion, and not spoil the brew. Stack Overflow manages by some very clear and strict rules, that don’t immediately cross over to the format of a blog. What has interested me, and pleased me greatly, is that I have been able to spot, by inference, some of the implicit, unspoken, rules, which make here tick over smoothly. If I can ever codify those into some process that would be as good, and allow for a controlled expansion, Joe will be the first to know. I’ve, over some years, actually done a lot of work with people setting up commercial blogs with wordpress, mostly very light consulting. But the crunch came, when I realized that not one of the hoped for features anyone wanted were transpiring. Almost not a single one. I was never responsible to do other than consult on the actual internet plumbing and, right at the other end, presentation, but I had begun to wonder why nothing ever moved on the functional side of these blogs and commenting systems. Oh, oh, now I know why. In a nutshell, the pitch for the system is “you censure do a b or c, there’s sure a plugin for that”, or “no worries, we’ll roll a theme to support that”. Sorry, wordpress dudes, the pitch may be it is easy to extend, but there is no foundation base or architecture to support such development, and this is why themes that are highly popular actually include large chunks of the wordpress core, because that is effectively intercepting the core, to achieve sometimes very modest changes. In strict terms, therefore, not any of the pitched benefits of a supposed architecture, actually exist. You have to get down on your knees and soot on your face in confined, untimbered, chambers. Even the “smartest” plans I have come up with, are big workarounds. No matter the bits I have come up with are, within themselves, I dare suggest, rather neat.

                I’d love to see some of the conversation that is touched upon here, have a way of expanding and forming new thought, discretely away from the main comments. There’s a really good feel of minds acutely applied, in these comments. I think that, given a better commenting system, those minds could be let off the leash and brought back into the article comments fold. But it would have to be a discrete, unobtrusive, round trip. We could call the forum subheading something reminiscent of a cool darkened room…

                Other website discussions have kept on failing. AtlasF1 does not seem to me to have survived being “tidied” up. The fast and loose style at TJ13 seems to drown too much of actual value. Not just reference that last one, I have been involved in detailed debates with a number of forum managers, some running support oriented discussions for very valuable customers, and time and again, I believe both nothing has progressed in the three or so years since I became recently interested (my first consulting gig on this problem, was ten years ago, now) , and that there is a reliance on wordpress as a crutch, and a excuse, and a obstacle obfuscation of possibilities. Because WordPress is deceptively simple, I believe part time (highly competent but winging it a bit much, and without the full time concentration) programmers, fall flat as result. Stack Overflow, notably, is not anything of the sort, they had domain expertise to run a Microsoft stack (not exclusively) and wrote from scratch a very tight Model View Controller system, in managed C#. You have to look at how small their team is, and how big their website, and on so little equipment and facilities, and compare with the hordes of “wordpress engineers” out there, pitching for business. Yes, adland and marketing druids must take some blame here. My first argument with a dear friend who makes his living in the wordpress arena, was whether a “content management system” was anything other than a front to really basic database schema.

                Forgive me my digression. I have been delighted in some ways, to discover I was onto a real idea, and a real market. Felt a little vindicated, even, that one or two of the questions I asked, remain highly pertinent. But I am appropriately daunted by how complicated a “modest job” it is, to make apparently simply upgrades to blog comment and display behavior. Fun thing is, that I am being paid lately to take best shot, and as a result of coming in late to “fix” a failed project, I will get to absolutely keep copyright on my results. Strictly not “work for hire”. So if anything neat comes out of this, I shall certainly let Joe know, if it is relevant, very early. Don’t hold your breath though, i’m referencing a whole “industry” that is really not making progress over a good number of years, and the only advantage okay hold out, somewhat feebly, is I have, as participant, held a very close private interest in the problem area, and have a very varied indeed experience and expertise in programming, I guess I could argue thirty years now. Even with every angle I could at a pinch risk bragging about, though, still don’t hold your breath!

                My apologies, to Joe and all. I rather badly want to come up with some real development for something that is dear to me (and which commercially is very interesting looking at small scale high value, high reputation, websites) but I have no intention to lead anyone up the garden path. I think most sites like this, however, have already been led up the garden path, by people who wouldn’t know which way to hold a map.

                All best ~j

                1. > Veering off topic is definitely not a privilege that can
                  > be earned. I can count on one hand, comments of
                  > mine, which I think genuinely “slipped through the
                  pointless.

                  Now, J(oJ), I do love reading (much of) your stuff, I really do… but really… you must admit the above is kinda hilarious!

    1. Peter, yes the USA shot down a plane and admitted it. They probably even apologized for it, and that is why the Grand Prix was held the next year.
      The problem this time is that Putin wants to blame a UFO for this tragedy, and that is why there shouldn’t be a Grand Prix in Russia. I wonder, if your relatives had been on that plane, would you be so relaxed or careless about all this.

    2. The USA admitted it and accepted accountability by providing financial compensation to the carrier and the victims families.

      In 1996 it paid out about $150m. I highly doubt Russia will pay out an inflation adjusted $300-$400m sum, even if they are proven culpable and don’t manage to push the blame onto some apparently unassociated pro-Russian rebels, or Ukrainian non-existent fighter jets.

      It is for that reason the world continued and continues to race in the US. Mistakes get made. Accountability is what either allows a nation to keep in the global loop, or not. And also it was a few days after they put their hand up too.

      The two catastrophes devastation is equal. The subsequent healing isn’t.

      1. That is sufficient politics. If comments are not F1 related they will be deleted. There other forums for this stuff

  3. Seems to me you understand the situation perfectly…

    Oh, wait… you weren’t struggling to understand the situation, you were trying to understand the “wisdom of F1” doing this…

    Should you start a thread about “the shortest motorsports books ever written”, “The Wisdom of F1” would top the list…

    Hmmm… well, one of the top 5 anyway…
    * Tony George’s Contributions to American Open Wheel Racing
    * Humility in Maranello
    * NASCAR and the Cutting Edge of Technology
    * Ecclestone: The Conscience of the Supremo

  4. With my old bank manager’s hat on it has always been the case that most companies exist to generate income for the shareholders and so perhaps Formula 1 should be seen as no different in this respect. That is their core objective.

    Like you, Joe, and many others no doubt, I am a little uncomfortable with this basic fact of business life when it comes to the sporting world and our beloved Formula 1 in particular. In an ideal world perhaps you would like F1 to operate on some sort of collective co-operative approach where profits don’t just go to the shareholders (and team principals and car designers etc), but are fed back into the business for the common good of the employees at large and customers of the business etc. we could be waiting a long while for that to happen though.

    1. F1 is not communist and never will be. However, the promoter should get 10-15 percent and should do some promoting.

      1. Joe you are spot on with the promoters fee and maybe that is where the EU needs to step in with the FIA and say enough is enough. Not sure how they do that legally,….. But it needs to be set at a fair level. Right now it is a shakedown of the teams.

        Well Bernie is pretty sure the cars will make it to the race as they fly on Russian aircraft. Maybe the loss of his hired air force to move the cars is his worry if they break the Russian contract? Pretty sure they will withdraw that as they do with gas to countries that don’t do as they want. Therefore he needs some outside force to break the contract for him. He is never going to do it himself. So what group is going to do that? FIA?

      2. Strangely enough, about 25 years back, maybe less, i had reason to go to an Engineering company in Kent, can’t remember the town, or the company name. I went to look at some machinery they helped to make, for the industry I was working in at that time, and we were considering buying the equipment. Anyway, the interesting bit for me, once I’d got there, was that they had chassis from Tyrrell, Arrows and Benetton in their machine shop, where they were drilling the chassis to fit metal components in the carbonfibre tubs, to hang the suspension off etc. This company, I was told, did work for most of the F1 teams and for other motorsport manufacturers, and while it had been set up some 30-40 years before I found it, the original founder had no family to pass it on to, so in his Will he insisted that it should become a Trust that involved each Employee, and that any profits be used to further the company for the benefit of those employees only, including the nice lady who ran it, and had been the company accountant. I don’t know if it is still around today, maybe someone here would know? It surprised me, and as a busy place, it looked a healthy business, not all it’s work was F1, only about 20% of it in fact And I guess he modelled it on the John Lewis Partnership?.

          1. Yes Phil. I’m sure it doesn’t work for every business, but for some it seems an ideal way to go about things. I must trawl the net and see if I can find this company, I have an idea that it was near Maidstone, but I could be wrong, it was in the dim and distant past!

            1. When looking for “lost” companies, I find trade magazines often the only source of mention. This includes subsidiaries of very large companies, that had short lived but fascinating lives. There was, e.g. a company who made very interesting “LISP machine” computers, called RACAL Nord, or was it Nord RACAL. Cripes, it could have been Norsk, as in Norsk Telekom, of Norway, both possible spellings, I think. A old favorite, in that line, Whitechapel Computer Works. Once pretty successful. Red Ken chucked them venture capital out of the GLC budget, but they floated right into 1987’s crash…

              I was thinking of LinkedIn, the other day. They bought a outfit called Bizo, who among other things, try to shift unused online advertising inventory. Not so many miles away form my interests, though they managed to hide under a pretty obvious rock, far as my sight was concerned, until being bought… anyhow, their whole gig, and reason for being acquired, is targeting key personnel. All fine and well, sure. But more interesting to me, is often seeking the talent from long defunct companies, because, well, certain ways of thinking, and this can be especially prevalent in computing, do come around in quite long cycles.

              There’s not a “go to” database for “lost company” information. (a kind of romantic idea, that companies can carry on, the world oblivious to them, doing useful things), but if you get a bee in your bonnet over digging up any information, I’d be happy to try a bit of sleuthing for you.

              I’m fascinated by alternative ownership structures, having done it all wrong with a partnership, well, bought out my partners just before my cofounder passed away suddenly, so oops, rather painful oops..

              My other comment in this discussion, about the US government planning to finance employee ownership by lending, came as a bit of a surprise there was such a initiative. Having made short work of a rather nice montrachet, rather gratuitously, I submitted a comment on how with free money being printed, governments ought to wade in and take equity in industry at large, to stop this flow of money to shareholders from the treasury. Unfortunately it came out as a thoroughly Red rant, and rightly hit the bitbucket. If Marx’s precondition is that communism must begin simultaneously, worldwide, consider the universal ZIRP…. I think there will be renewed interest in different industrial ownership structures, in the near future.

      3. As a business model it is completely wrong. I am a writer, and pay my agent 15% of my income, and a very good job he does too. In F1, the agent takes the vast bulk of income, while the ‘talent’ turn against themselves in the fight for scraps. The agent is poor at his job, is behind the times in his attitude to maximising income, and given his short-term outlook, has no interest in sustainability, or drawing in new consumers.

        F1 isn’t shilling baked beans: it’s show business, and has more competitors for the money it earns every single day. It won’t die, but if it continues to ignore income streams and diminish the role of the talented people within the business, sooner or later, an upstart formula or a breakaway, geared towards the new consumers will emerge, and we’ll be left with an IRL/CART scenario.

        That a sport so wealthy should be largely packed with pay-drivers, in this day and age, is ridiculous. That teams with a TV audience in the hundreds of millions and should struggle to attract sponsorship is ridiculous. F1 is populated by many truly brilliant people and provides a tremendous product, but its image is awful.

        An example: my girlfriend, who has little interest in the sport, was watching a race with me for once, and became quite enraptured in the show. As I explained who Kimi was, why so-and-so didn’t like this guy and what have you, she seemed to be on the point of being converted. Then, when the race ended, and the top three made their way up the steps to the podium, they were met by hundreds of fawning, mini-skirted models, all applauding like a bunch of failed clones from the Stepford Wives.”THAT is the creepiest thing I’ve ever seen” said my other half. And it *is* creepy. What sort of message does that send out to young female fans? Or young boys, for that matter? Instead of disinterested glamour models, why not young karters? Or – heaven forbid – actual fans?

        And therein lies the problem with F1, and why many large companies won’t touch it with a bargepole: the technology and the sport is cutting edge. It’s mindset is still controlled by Austin Powers.

        1. in part I agree with you. However, F1 teams will spend all the money they get unless they are stopped from doing it. So sharing revenue differently is only valuable if there is also a cost cap

          1. The teams agreed to the arrangement with the “promoter”. They had a chance to mobilize and force a more reasonable arrangement but let petty differences ruin their opportunity…

          2. It would appear that Ferrari may be the biggest impediment to a cost cap. Toto, recently, confirmed that Merc is supportive of a cost cap. However, Toto also indicated that Ferrari has completely integrated its car & F1 operations thus it is extremely difficult to separate-out the respective division’s costs.

            Obviously this is the job for Forensic Accountants. So far, Ferrari has not indicated whether it is prepared to open-up its books to Forensic Accountants. Moreover, such undertakings would be labour-intensive hence costly. It is not unreasonable to presume that Ferrari would insist that other teams – thru FOM – pay all such costs. Of course, whatever Ferrari wants Ferrari gets. So could you envision other teams agreeing to defray all such costs? And do you know if all the other big teams support the cost cap?

              1. Compound questions get just don’t work, do they? 😉

                Bit like the TV unilaterals. Not to mention, Joe generously afforded us a handful of articles on how to get questions answered, or not, in F1!

      4. Agreed, Joe, and yes, I can think of nothing less communist than F1, thank goodness. The current business model very much favours the shareholders, as any normal business would, but F1 needs to be a little different.

        1. I have explained that in the article. I would avoid any place where F1 is in the spotlight and being used (or is likely to be used) as a tool of political propaganda. If the sport is not the issue then I do not see why a race cannot go ahead but going to places like Russia right now threaten to make it a news story.

          1. Until there is some sense of Russia’s Leader getting more sociable with not only the West, but with countries around Russia in the East, then it would seem monumentally stupid, and crass, for F1 to venture to Sochi. However that doesn’t mean that the FIA won’t just twiddled their thumbs and do nothing, not does it mean that Uncle Bernard will return the Russian Cheque! Therefore, while it would not be acceptable to go there this year, that does not mean that it will not go ahead. If Merc went, I would think that the Petronas stickers would not be on their cars at least, as I would not think that company would want to be seen to endorse this GP. As Championship Leaders, maybe Merc would be wise to show some leadership and just say right now, that they are not prepared to go to Sochi?

        2. As I suggested, above, let’s give that problem to a neutral arbiter, or at least someone else whom F1 has to pay attention to: sponsor sentiment. No one’s going to argue with the money. Too many blank spaces on cars this year.

      1. Joe

        Neither am I. Back in 1968, or thereabouts, Motor Sport magazine ran a petition protesting about the 70 mph limit on our Motorways. Hundreds of thousands of people signed it – did a lot of good didn’t it?

        Martin

        1. On the other hand, an even bigger petition prevented (for time being) the Gov. intention to make us ‘pay for every mile’ we drive / ride on roads we have already paid for several times over.
          And, reading the Sunday Times / Driving suplement recently, we may have to fight the Gov. once again very soon !!!

          But, turning to the subject in question,
          F1 should stay away from Russia, even if that means getting rid of Bernie / CVC (which should hopefully happen soon anyway..)
          Regards,
          “Martin”

        2. One might perceive a petition from a motor sports magazine to increase speed limits as somewhat akin to a petition from the foxes to hold keys to the hen house.

          NB. I’m not saying I disagree with this idea but had the petition come from some road safety group, for example, it may have carried more weight.

    1. Obama seeks for $500 mil to train canibals-terrorists in Syria.
      These cannibals eats hearts of the other human beings.
      Stop cannibalism. Boycott US grand Prix!

      LGBT beings faces death penalty in Abu Dhabi!
      Boycott Yas Marina GP! (cheers to fired Lotus GP twitter account driver, who mentioned this every time there are races or tests)

      Water goes down other direction in Brazilian and Australian syncs!
      Boycott Grand Prix in south hemisphere!

      Leave the sport alone. Nobody cares what is going around the track if track is capable to provide exciting racing.

      Except presenters who need to fill 2 hours of pre-race/pre-quali shows.
      And reports who need to provide 2 pages report on really boring trulli-train style races.

      1. Could you try not to write in shorthand. It is bad enough for me to understand, I fear our Russians readers will not get it.

        1. I wonder, Joe, if “Jarno Trulli Train” phrase was invented by Russian commentator Alexey Popov or is it an international common-known cliche?
          BTW I’m from Kiev and you may ask me questions on Ukraine if you have any.

        2. Compare the Correspondents….Simples! ( If you don’t get the cheeky Meerkats in France Joe, that was a mickey take! )

        3. I do agree with Alex. If F1 decides to quit the Russian GP because of something which happened in Ukraine (and that no real investigation has even been started other than some strange – according to CIA ex-officials – recordings, then it would quit the US Grand Prix as well. Syria was mentioned, Ukraine fires on people as well and the US supports it. Not to mention Gaza and Israel.

          1. I think you and Alex are wrong Jean. It is totally clear what happened, the type of missile used, and that is unlikely that it could have been fired by so called Separatists. The equipment is said to need a level of knowledge that would not be in the remit of the gunmen, so one has to assume that Russia supplied technical and military support to use it. The only question really is, did they fire on purpose to take down a Civilian Aeroplane, or was it a mistake and they thought they were firing on a Ukrainian military aircraft?
            The other points don’t count. Syria is, thank God, a Civil War and no one else is involved thankfully. The Ukrainians are firing at Military personnel who have no right to be in Ukraine, and should leave. The Palestinian and Israeli conflict continues, it isn’t the fault of Israel if it has to retaliate because some nutters insist on sending rockets over their border and causing injury and death to Israeli citizens. If Hamas stopped shooting at Israel, then the Israeli government would leave Gaza alone. They don’t want to be there, proven by the fact that they left the area many years ago!

      2. “Nobody cares what is going around the track if the track is capable to provide exiting racing”

        This attitude really demonstrates why certain countries are and will remain dictatorships for many years to come. My country has a democratic tradition spanning centuries. It hasn’t become so by being indifferent to human rights abuses. It is important to have STANDARDS. And Russia doesn’t fit the standards.

  5. Has there been any paddock murmuring from sponsors about F1 going to Russia? Given the gravity of the situation, and given how Vodafone dumped McLaren because of Bahrain 2012, I wouldn’t be surprised if the teams felt caught between a rock and a hard place.

      1. Vodafone simply changed their global marketing strategy, moving out of sport and into other mediums.

      2. Vodafone were pretty annoyed at Bahrain though to the point that they asked for their stickers be removed I thought?

      3. No major sponsor would dump on a whole sport, as opposed say to ditching sponsorship of e.g. a wayward player, lest they set a precedent that impedes them in the future. Voda were repositioning themselves as responsible corporate citizens, against the history of Chris Ghent indulging his cricket and so forth. The reason for this, was a very public tug of war, over the fact that Voda held a non controlling stake in Verizon, that produced a disproportionate balance of their worth, which was not being realized. Which made investors very grumpy very vocally. So they were having a general rethink, about how they presented themselves.

  6. I reside in a society where news is manipulated to suit the government’s agenda which is to make sure the people they represent are kept ignorant.

    Where I reside this is being reported with a slant that basically it’s Ukraine’s fault and they have questions to answer,oh we get the whole story but the line is different to what’s reported in Western news.

    Your erudite and well educated Russian friend, it is not a surprise that he is blinkered in his thinking. Without being rude to our American friends as a example they can be exactly the same well travelled very smart but blinkered, I have many friends in the USA who are some of the nicest people you could ever meet, Don’t talk to them about gun control or the constitution that it applies too they really believe the govt has a different agenda rather than trying to reduce the carnage. some really believe and I mean really believe Obama isn’t a American and his birth certificate is fake.

    People only believe what’s printed or reported it surprises me that many don’t or won’t think for themselves. This is a human condition no matter which country you come from.

    1. They “can be” blinkered, like Joe’s Russian interlocutor, of course. Any society has its share of conspiracy theorists. The big difference is that in a country like Russia with no freedom of expression, the lunatic fringe tends to become mainstream, with no moderating influence by respectable news outlets and commentators with reasonably good access to the facts. Americans who believe the government has ulterior motives for controlling guns, or that Obama was born in Africa, do so in spite of, not because of, the open and rational discourse that their society (still) allows. The fact that there is no such moderating discourse in Russia is just one reason among many why F1 should be very wary of associating itself with an increasingly aggressive rogue regime that will not even attempt to follow legal and moral principles either internationally or in its domestic affairs. Refusing to race in Sochi, far from being a loss for F1, would enhance the sport’s reputation.

  7. In 1938 a man ruling a European nation exploited relatively minor internal
    conflicts in adjoining nations as an excuse to intimidate, invade and destroy. One country after another fell before western democracies finally acted.

    And F1’s Generalisimo once made admiring comments about that man
    ‘getting things done’. True to form, BCE now confirms his malign convictions
    by expressing admiration for Europe’s latest monster.

    And this coming autumn, F1 will travel happily, waving flags and singing songs…to a town called Sochi…in Putin’s Russia.

    1. If F1 goes I would love to see Sochi turn into a Viral PR disaster with celebs boycotting,tweeting and making the whole F1 glam cache a passé un cool scene complete with on going negative hangover. Bernie’s any publicity is good publicity freeloading mentality better be careful with this one. Love the sport hate the greedy meaningless parasitic folks bleeding it dry.

      1. Agree with that Andrew, although many celebs appear too brainless to take in when something is crass and unacceptable! Hey, and don’t be ” Still Pi** off about Kubica ” ! He’s doing ok in rallying and enjoying himself. Given a couple of more yrs experience, he will be winning rounds and challenging for the most difficult to win FIA Title. Hit the Stages pal and you will see a very dedicated and fast driver at work and giving pleasure still to millions of fans.I hope Kimi comes back to the WRC, he had terrific speed too, just needed experience, he was getting better on each outing.

  8. There are three sides to every story:
    Theirs, ours and the truth.
    We’ve heard the first two but until we hear the third, perhaps it would be more dignified to at least postpone the race for this year.
    Any loss of income could be offset by the improved reputation for the sport.
    Tongue in cheek warning, they could make up for the lost points by awarding treble points in Abu Dhabi.

    1. Always there are only two sides; those seeking the truth and those obscuring the truth. The question for each man is which side are you on.

  9. I assume there are substantial penalty clauses if the F1 management company decided not to go to Sochi, just as there would be penalty clauses in the contracts between the individual F1 participants and the F1 management, if they decided not to go. The only body who could stop the Sochi show, penalty free, are the FIA and to do that they would need to re-find the backbone that has been put in storage “not required on journey”.

    Wilson

    1. F1 teams are almost all based in EU countries (apart from Sauber though nominally Marussia and Caterham are non-EU based ownership).

      If going to Sochi was rendered impossible by EU sanctions against Russia, would the teams and FOM* be able to claim “Force Majeure”?

      (*Albeit that FOM’s national basis is harder to determine, perhaps it is the Cayman Islands, BVI or similar?)

      F1’s collective conscience is even harder to locate. How many times did they go to Kyalami in the 80’s?

      1. That would probably work for the teams. As for FOM, I am sure there will be a country whose legislation applies, stated in the contract between Sochi and the FOM plus an extensive Force Majeure clause. I cannot imagine Bernie would have been stupid enough to have signed a contract stating that Russian “law” applied. My guess would be either Switzerland or Lichtenstein as the “forum conveniens”.

        Wilson

  10. “The problem with Russia (or most modern conflicts come to that) is that it is hard to know who to believe.”

    Wise words. It’s also wise to realise that using twitter to retweet hashtags or creating countless petitions calling for boycotts etc is entirely idiotic.

    As ever, if people feel compelled to do something then…do something, don’t hide away behind a computer screen signing liberal petitions.

    1. liberal petitions really? how do you know its a liberal petition? you’d have been fine if you just left it at petition. Do you know what liberal means?

    2. Hey Josh, I guess we’d all like to DO something, other than sign petitions….however we can’t find the ignition keys to the B52’s!

  11. Today’s answer maybe not to go, however I presume the contract is a multi year arrangement so does that mean next year would be ok even if the events of the passed week have been resigned to history but not forgotten, the correct answer is the contract in it’s entirety should be canceled, if this is not achievable then F1 should go this year, however the world media could boycott the event, no coverage and thus stripping Putin of much loved publicity, tour operators could also boycott the event

    1. The Formula One group gets the money up front on the first race (or two) so it is no big deal. The contract can be lengthened accordingly once the troubles have died down.

    2. Since everything is dependent on sponsors, there could be used a index of sentiment, the kind compiled for big advertisers all the time.

      Below a certain approval rating in general, not of F1 maybe specifically, and, with regrets, sorry, but we shall not be racing on your circuit, this year. As Joe points out, contracts can be rolled over.

      Cannot simple pragmatism win over political hand wringing?

      After all, the “endorsement” of a country by F1 is not something taken seriously politically, by first world observers. Rather it is the other way around. Some countries may hope they will be noticed more favorably, as in Bahrain. In other words, it is largely a lose – lose proposition,

      But F1 has no influence if it never acts, at the same time it will be accused of being political if it acts arbitrarily or randomly. So, simply put the decision in another court. Then, maybe, the slow road to making F1 a genuine positive endorsement of a visited nation’s wellbeing, might be embarked upon.

      I don’t see TPTB in F1 gaining very much, if they take a stand, right now. A brief uptick in twitter “consciousness”, but nothing lasting. The “bringing the sport into disrepute” is also too politicized and arguable a policy. I’m sure Martin Sorrel would be delighted, and relieved, to make available the resources to index such a important guide, and to show the workings as to a index composition and methodology, so that it is credible.

      In so doing, we might make a long term positive move for F1, and avoid a lot of these arguments in the future. Otherwise, you have to take a blunt Bernie-esque view of dismissing it all with a “and when does it [the criticism for political failings of visited nations] end?”

  12. I think safety is the only argument F1 can use in most cases. I thought the Unif1ed slogan fitted the politics argument, but that one went ahead as planned.
    I’m as horrified and appalled at the images from the site as anyone, but I just don’t see the event being cancelled – history shows it will go ahead, unless it’s unsafe.

  13. I apologize Joe, but I’m not so wound up about Socchi. A plane was shot down in a conflict zone. Do we see the Europeans heavily sanctioning trade relations with Russia? Not so much.

    F1 can pick up its check and put on a show. Load its kit back up and leave. Bye now. The world keeps turning

      1. As you’ve said, F1 has no morality. My emotions are pretty wearied by our world. F1 maybe should stop prancing around like it’s so important. It’s starting to get amusing, in context.

  14. I think we are unlikely to ever know the whole truth behind the shooting down of the plane. f1 happily goes to country’s with dodgy human rights, china, USA, Bahrain, we had turkey with its illegal occupation of Cyprus, and of course own illegal wars in recent times, or at best wars started under dubious cirumstances. Did we have the rest if the world demanding we cancel our grandprix?

    1. I think you miss the point. F1 should not go to countries when it is in the political spotlight. That is then a political act, which the FIA Statutes forbid. At the moment F1 is not in the political spotlight, although I see a UK politician trying to make it so in one of the newspapers.

  15. Firstly, when the GP arrives in Sochi in three months, this incident will long be forgotten. Secondly, F1 is not run by sissies who are bullied by the PC brigade, thank God. Perhaps in the short run the sport will fall out of flavor with those who consider themselves morally superior, but in the long run it will gain respect for its integrity, fairness, honorableness and loyalty.

    1. I’m not sure the shooting down of an airliner containing 295 civilians will be quickly forgotten. Your are right though, shooting down 295 civilians is not politically correct.

    2. Being Dutch and today being a day of mourning here I want to assure you that there are many, many people who won’t have forgotten about this “incident” in three months time. We hope, but can’t be sure, that by that time all remains will have been identified and people will have been able to have had proper funerals for their loved ones.

      I could say other things about what you seem to consider integer, fair and honorable, but I’ll pass on that chance.

      1. ‘ Your restraint in the face of such crass insensitivity does you very great credit, Thierry. I sometimes wonder how our good man Joe keeps his cool. Be assured that most of the western world stares in grim horror at the events taking place in Ukraine. There will be a day of reckoning, be sure of that.

      2. The images of the Dutch respectfully lining the roads went out across the globe today. As a human being if those images did not move you then the Oxygen you breathe is being wasted. Unfortunately others lack your dignity, hopefully they can learn from you. Anyone who forgets this event is a complete cretin.

      3. As a UK citizen, and Parent, I feel for you and your country, and it’s terrible loss of men, women and children. Also the same goes for other Nations who needlessly suffered from the vile actions of the thugs that Russia backs.

  16. The IOC should have taken the moral lead in this situation several months ago after Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. The Sochi Winter Olympics should have been cancelled, as should the GP. I believe I commented as such on your blog as you were saying the the GP should go ahead.
    Now the situation has escalated, it is easy to question the decision to race there, but, in reality, the race should have been cancelled by the FIA before the Winter Olympics.
    It is a sad reflection on humanity that money drives decision making and that morality and ethics always take the back seat.
    In many ways, it would do sport good to be seen as the hypocracy that it is…
    Perhaps the FIA, FOM, and CVC will leave the race in situ and take the money… But the teams and drivers (and broadcasters and journalists) could do the right thing by not going there. I appreciate there are contracts in place and all manner of excuses for going to the race, but, in the end, they are just excuses for a weak morality.
    Though it is interesting that you are raising the question in public now…
    Perhaps the question you should be asking is “is it better to have an uninterrupted record of attendance at all GPs since 1980 (for example), or should I do the right thing and use my journalistic expertise and write about the moral issues”?
    Maybe people’s respect for you and your work would increase if you did the right thing and wrote about why it was the right thing to do…

    1. I agree with what your saying money has come to trump morality. This isn’t just about F1 going to Russia. The lack of conviction comes from the rest of us as well. I don’t hear any talk of a European boycott of Russian oil. Is it morally right to finance, through purchases, any government we have agreed is acting immorally? Of course it’s not, but we all do it all the time. Food grown by slaves, clothes made by children, electronics, oil and chemicals, all brought to us by the suffering of others. We consume and pollute without conscience. In the middle east, right now, we support the right of Israel to defend itself, but ignore the right of the average Palestinian (and their family) to live. Woman, children it’s all fair game. Yet we feel we stand on the moral high ground.

      There is not much room on the pointy peak of moral high ground.

  17. Your comments on Petronas are quite valid the Malaysians have a people that do vote and have a strong public opinion and they would feel very aggrieved over what’s happened,
    I know you have commented on Mercedes having a board that has ethics unfortunately I can’t agree when it comes to this in the first qtr this year Russia is Mercedes fastest growing market and a winning car at Sochi well would be exact key what they want.

    Germany in particular has been loathe to push for sanctions along with Italy due to the investment flow between Russia and these countries.

  18. It would be nice if we could completely ignore your Russian colleagues comments on the CIA, but it’s the CIA.

    One of the interesting things I’ve learned through this crisis. The Americans can no longer launch any rockets without the Russians. They are Russian made engines that are used in the American rockets. That’s got to give Putin some leverage.

  19. Joe – you have a real downer on private equity – not all people in that industry are super-rich aggressive individuals. (And I don’t work in the industry). My only connection to PE is that, like everyone else, a percentage of my pension moneys are probably invested with PE funds. in fact, many blue chip pension funds from the private and public sector across the globe place a percentage of their investments with PE funds.

    Back to the point of the article – I doubt the fall-out of recent events will be sorted quickly and think that F1 should not go to Sochi.

    This will have ramifications for the world championship of course.

    1. Yes, I do and with good reason. The people in f1 are a disgrace to the sport. I don’t give a toss if they are heroes in the city. Let them go and rip the guts out of supermarkets and steel mills, but sport is something that should not be treated with such disrespect. I disrespect them as they disrespect the sport.

      1. I totally agree with that sentiment, they are a disgrace. I love the sport of F1 but at the same time I question the fact that F1 is truly a sport? The protagonists are a serious of businesses that design, develop and manufacture things and the success of those amazingly talented drivers is largely determined not by relative talent but by the quality of the car they are sat in.

        1. I’m not standing up for those who are taking most of the money out of formula one, simply stating that not all private equity is the same.

          It’s a bit like saying all journalists are phone hacking low life’s.

          1. Well, the most successful private equity is… how they manage their PR is a testament to a lack of journalism…

            If we imagine that corporations are people, then private equity is like the Triage Squad: given 10 wounded patients, they put a bullet through the head of 9 of them and steal what’s in their pockets, but they also patch up the one they don’t kill, and then somehow present themselves as Good Samaritans. The relatively rare Save story doesn’t change the general parasitic nature of their core business… vulture capitalism at its most plain…

    2. “And I don’t work in the industry”

      That explains why you defend them. You wouldn’t if you had worked in that industry.

  20. For those who would be appalled with a Russian GP this year, should it go on, the answer is ellimentary: Don’t turn on your TV and watch the race. F1 already has ratings issues this season, so hit them where they are already hurting.

  21. In the end public pressure is the only thing that will stop the Russian GP from going ahead. Corporations are fickle and will only make noise when pressed. So only if the public pressure is high enough and sustained long enough will the sponsors feel they have no choice but to refuse to participate in the event.

  22. If you’re in the UK, watch Sky News then Russia Today. Same style, very different substance.

  23. Regarding “Who to believe”… Try rt.com – this is Russian government backed news outlet. it will give you different view on Ukraine conflict in English… I’m not saying they are telling the truth, neither are Western news outlets… But you can hear and see other side of the story..

  24. Your Russian friend is correct on who runs the Ukraine and if you look around the inter tubes today there even more news on this sad event. You are great writer when it racing and travel.

  25. Getting the teams to go there is a simple divide and conquer exercise. It will be left to the teams to decide and Marussia will definitely race. It’s not the political aspects that I would be most concerned about if I was in F1. It would be the travel. The Russian Grand Prix is on 12th October. So that means that most folk F1 will be in the country for a minimum of 5 days leaving around 13th. All those folk will get a stamp in their passport. All those freight boxes will bear the marks of Russian airports. These people, along with literally hundreds of tonnes of freight will then try to gain access to the United States on or around 27th-28th October. Around 2 weeks later. With the stamps in the passports and all that goes with that.

    The US authorities will be extremely prejudice against any recent Russian visit, so expect difficulties and people getting rejected at the airport. Politics aside, logistically I don’t see how, In the current climate, anybody will be able to move from one venue to the other.

    1. A lot of regular international travellers actually maintain more than one passport (quite legitimately) so that they can manage visa application processes with slow authorities (read Joe’s previous descriptions on dealing with Indian and Chinese visa processes in Paris, if you want an example). The smart ones will realise how sticky a Russian stamp will be on a passport entering the US, and will do well to switch to their ‘other’ copy of their passport for their US trip.

      1. The biggest issue with that approach is that the Americans will know you’ve been to Russia long before you land. There is no way around that fact. It’s up to them to let you in. Any approach which attempts to pull the wool over the eyes of the border officers is going to result in you being refused entry without question. I can’t imagine Ron Dennis or Christian Horner looking kindly upon any team member who lied to obtain entry to the states and was subsequently deported!

  26. At first, I was thinking, well, at least maybe the general public will get a idea just how ineffectual twenty three years of so of policy has been towards the former Soviet Union, when they see the state of affairs on the ground where this plane was downed. Maybe that was even the point being made. Sadly, I can imagine someone being so despondent, and so desperate about their country, as to take such a fearful and terrible decision.

    I didn’t get the feeling there was any real in depth policy regarding EU inclusion of Ukraine. (which by “get the feeling” deliberately invites my own question, whether I was paying attention) Just more bureaucratic straw man strategy, and policy wonk wishful thinking. Political disillusionment is one thing, in a highly developed urban or city state, and quite another in vast expanses of generationally neglected land, home to the descendants of conflicts caused by their very place, on the edge of powers and interest in resources.

    Rather than see this as a extension of western policy views, that give the impression Russia is being evil in attempting to prevent Ukraine’s accession to western political and economic circles, I see the fact of this conflict as a condemnation of inadequate western policy in the first place. It’s hardly as if the Ukraine has not been first port of call for powers hungry for expansion, arable land, and oil, before. If there was a long game, of “minor” regional destabilization, to weary our policy of intervention, and moreover, distract from long term preventative, constructive, planning, you might say that worked.

    But, prosaically, and in generalist terms of course in bald error, the generation who remember the recent history are busy with families, and those online now and in this hyper connected world, able to find viewpoints and propaganda every which way they look, have grown up since. What great riches, only to amplify discontent.

    As usual, Randall Munroe has a bitter sweet, ironic, comment, on time: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1393:_Timeghost

    I’m equanimous, as to F1 going to Sochi. I don’t think any valid point can be made, unless the reason is real sanctions.

    Whether it is good, in general, for F1 to dally in countries that are likely to provide such controversy, no less when even such a rich sport is being torn by haves and have nots, and at the mercy of money, technology and too much politics, making it a easy target for criticism, is a different matter. Personally, I would rather we didn’t.

    Brought to my attention elsewhere, a reminder that Vodafone was refused the possibility to remove their name from the McLaren cars, in Bahrain. Now, there’s the argument that should be what matters. If sponsors don’t want the association, or are just fed up having their twitter feeds filled with negativity, it’s a straight commercial decision.

    1. @ John (o J). We are well aware that Bernie appears to be an Amoralist hence his – hearty expression of approbation for the F1 race in Russia is normal deportment by Mr. E. Of course, influencing his attitude maybe the hefty sanctioning fee of $60 million combined with the rich annual escalator. Greed often is oblivious to all else,

      “I’m equanimous, in general, for F1 going to Sochi.” I’m stunned by this position. Certainly you are not suggesting that there exist a moral equivalence between our values and Russia’s behaviour. As you know, among other things, we believe in human rights; adhering to the rule of law; protecting the rights of minorities; respecting the boundaries and sovereignty of other countries; abiding by the rules and norms of civil behaviour & civil discourse within the community of nations, et. al. Certainly their continuing aggressions towards Ukraine; likely bloody hands in the Airline’s downing are all anathema to our values; belief systems and morality.

      We cannot turn our backs and pretend we don’t see the evil deeds being committed before our eyes. We can’t be indifferent to what Russia has been doing. We must take a stand. We cannot continue doing business as usual with Russia. We need to make our displeasure known. So denying them a prestigious F1 race is a good first step.

  27. Joe,

    The lines between the Chasing the $’s and what is Moral.

    I see the Airline Companies saving the mighty $ by flying over a “War” Zone to start off with. A Plane gets shot down and now it becomes Political.

    We can argue the toss over whether it’s Putin or it’s Ukraine or some Separatists or is it right but at the end of the day ( Chasing control of a region which means $ to Russia) ………… there are many similar Companies to F1 with the same ethics who will go into ANY dangerous area when the contract says so to fulfill their contract and their contracts pay well and the rewards are expected to be massive. ( We can all give instances of contracts in difficult / dangerous areas where family members / friends may have worked – Saudi / The Gulf / China/ Anywhere) – Hell… Even the Military is being privatised in the US these days. I suppose we all “Sucked it up” at times and just got on with it – we didn’t like it but got on with it to earn the lucre.

    Now F1 actually provides support for Sporting Services and they now go to “Dangerous Regions” to complete their contracts and earn their vast sums of money. These F1 Companies seem to be in control of themselves but truthfully they have bought into the financial packages a long time ago. It’s the model they agreed to. It’s all chasing the mighty $ and that is the time we now live in……….(As you say Joe) … until you want to get off.

    You say “It’s best to be Pragmatic” but that takes leadership – and the leader has sold his Soul to the highest Bidder and the whole of F1 followed and was happy to …. for all it’s money – If all of F1 want to improve the model then they have to change it and not blame everybody else…….. and stopping before hitting the Iceberg means actually to have made a change and the emergence of a Voice of Reason and I’m afraid all I see is that their current model requires to be broken before a new one can start. …….. It’s either that or 100% of all the teams saying they simply won’t go to Russia and let the implications of that work it’s way through. (and say Ferrari actually wants to go …. it all becomes a pathetic Fiasco with no decent leader. )

    A Marketing and Image total balls up which F1 knew was coming but it continued chasing the $.

    It’s not that it’s pragmatic to get out now – If it doesn’t then it seriously doesn’t realise the Multinational Governmental Sh*t that’s waiting to drop on it……. and it doesn’t even have a spokesman or woman as he’s on trial. Enough said.

    1. I am sure that there is no such thing, as pilots or any civil aviation captain, accepting any unauthorized national overflight, for the sake of money. Even in a private plane, you simply abide by ATC and aviation authority directions, and woe betide you if you do not. The only possible exception to this is if you fly above 45,000 feet, where normal checkin to ground control and overflight national territories do not apply. That’s why Gulfstreams are so popular with certain constituencies: they are reliable above that ceiling.

      1. What? If you fly above 45K feet, you go where you please without any traffic control? Really?

        Learn something new every day (on good days, anyway…)

        1. Not quite as you please, both sadly for the fantasy of it, and thankfully for the reality of it. Tucked away somewhere abouts I’ve got a NatGeo from I think ’66 on the California boom, with wonderful photos of a strip project kind of road, chock full of small aircraft, parked up, just like regular garages. That sort of thing made some impression on this, then, little boy.

          As I understood it, from who should know, yup. The mind boggles. However, I would imagine you would have quite some difficulty checking in with a tower for landing, unexpectedly, and, depending who you’re with, or who you are, and where you intend to land, there’s a ton of rules you’d violate, if you popped out of the blue, on being allowed corridor access and slots in the holding pattern area, which mean, well, it’s not going to be your action movie moment, quite. I imagine a *very* friendly reception would be arranged by guys in grey suits! Basically, up above is kind of a informal military space. Maybe they didn’t expect civilian jets to have that capability. With deliberate exceptions. Gulfstreams have notably higher operating ceilings. Then again, if you can spend that kinda money, you’re on a different kind of RADAR, already. But say you’re over a ocean, where we’ve learned all too sadly, that there’s little tracking capability at all, you could, in theory, fly your G650 out on a flightplan from say HK, and do a u turn above the ocean and slip into Europe, with a different designator. I’m sure there’s plenty of airspace where you could do this, but over you or me, expect to get buzzed pronto…

  28. Hey Joe,
    remember when you reported about a possible GP in Libya, as Gaddafi had turned a new leaf and done everything the west wanted of him? Then, a couple months later, Gaddafi was dead @ the hands of western backed rebels with NATO air cover… Didn’t that one throw you for a loop? What are the chances of a GP taking place in Libya now, under the current government?
    What are the chances really good, caring people are running the show anywhere?

    1. Ah, that was a obviously sentimental piece, because Joe loves and knows his obscure racing history. A far cry from a “let’s go racing in Libya” exhortation.
      There are many crazier races we should consider, first, and some of those were mentioned in the comments, GP du Roc, for one… do you really remember that article and discussion as being other than a bit of nostalgia and education?

  29. Just to be clear up front. I don’t know if going to Russia is a terribly good idea. Putin will probably use it as a propaganda tool, if not for the world, then at least within his own country.

    However, you did mention Bahrain. Which is interesting, because I seem to recall you had serious doubts about going. In the end you did go, and you reached your own conclusions that the situation wasn’t nearly as bad as it was reported. However, if Formula 1 hadn’t decided to keep going, you probably wouldn’t have known (or would you?). And we wouldn’t have known either. So something good came out of it, right?

    In the end, everyone, every country, has an agenda. Whether it’s in the liberal west (or whatever you want to call it), or whether it’s in Russia/Ukraine/wherever. The theory of your Russian colleague seems a bit too far fetched, but in the end there’s just no way of knowing the truth. All we know is what we’ve been told. And in this situation, all we know is that someone is lying (or at least being very liberal with the truth), since everyone is saying “we didn’t do it!”.

    1. Well it’s good that there are many differing views, but no one is killing each other for having them! Wish it could be so in the world in general.

  30. The shooting down of a civilian airliner in internationally cleared airspace has added global implcations to a primarily a local conflict. There is little doubt that Putin will seek to maximise his PR/exposure should the Russian Grand Prix take place.
    This puts F1 in the political spotlight and is too big an event to be ignored by Western leaders,
    The final go/no decision on Sochi taking place is now probably in the hands of the politicans, rather than anyone directly involved with F1, although the FIA would act a proxy for any such decision.

  31. Somehow at this point in time, I am having trouble imagining the Mercedes AMG cars running with Petronas branding in Sochi…
    Global corporations hate controversy. For that reason I suspect that most of them will be unhappy at being seen on cars at Sochi. I expect that if F1 visits the country this year, a number of sponsor decals on cars will be missing.

    1. You’re right about Petronas though – how could they consider endorsing something in Russia right now.

  32. Joe, feel free to throw this one to the bitbucket, but I wasn’t so crazy maybe the other weekend, when I unhinged a bit on a “let’s nationalize the whole gig” rant, how since equity is valued at heights impossible without zero interest rates, that the supplier of free money, the government, ought to grab a chunk of equity back for the treasury….

    Well, I was not alone, in thinking this, it appears: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-23/congress-brings-socialism-america-proposed-law

    As whacked out as this is, basically banking employees to buy out their employers, maybe nothing is too whacky when things are so blatantly unfair.

    Sorry to presume on this being the slightest bit on topic, here, but I always had a sneaky feeling we got away too long saying the other guys were the real commies, nip back a moment to pre Thatcherite Britain… whilst maybe it can be argued that robber baron capitalism has destabilized the very regions we need now to trade with, to eats and keel warm, and they’re being undermined by a disintegrated societal structure.. and lobbing hate bombs at us.

  33. 1.We can agree that Russia does not respect Ukraine’s borders.

    2. We can also agree that Russia could have sent resources to the crash site in an effort to provide some dignity for the victims – They did not even attempt it when these so called separatists would not defy Russia with opposition.

    3. How to take all the good will & image building from the Olympic’s and promptly flush it down the toilet. Unfortunately the worlds attention seems to have gone to the shirtless one’s head.

    This behaviour does not deserve blind support from the West. F1 would be completely classless and inept going there at this time. Without clear evidence of non involvement – definitely TOO SOON as they say. This could be the PR disaster that finally hit’s these Jackal’s in the wallet.

    There should be a fan effort to collectively switch off and get the results the next day. Time to vote with our wallets – It’s the only language these folks may understand

    1. I would assume that there are Dutch & Australian & Malaysian etc, engineers etc in F1, not even including such a Daniel Ricciardo. It would seem to me that all these people would show great respect to those killed in MH17, by refusing to go to Russia. I know I would in their place.

  34. An old article from the scrapbook (Joe Saward, Aug 1 1999, http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ft00336.html):
    “Ecclestone is understood to have told teams that he will not except anything which damages the image of the sport. Formula 1 has a good clean image which has taken many years to build up and he knows that one scandal – such as the doping scandal on the 1998 Tour de France – can do terrible damage to a sport. Ecclestone says that for this reason F1 will not go to Russia because the country has the image of being run by gangsters.”

    If F1 goes to Russia, one has to ask whose reputation has changed in the last 15 years. Might it be that F1 has become so tarnished that it no longer has a clean image to preserve?

  35. It is interesting to see a party claiming a higher moral ground recommending politicizing the sport to prevent somebody from doing the same. It is also interesting to see the usage of a narrow set of arguments that are aligned with current headlines to propose who is not worthy to be associated with F1.

    If we were to look what various entities (governments, agencies, corporations) do or not do to push their agenda or to make more money no matter what I would think that we would be having troubles finding anybody that is worthy. This would, of course, be further complicated by massive differences in opinion between people participating in the discussion on what is right and what is wrong.

    You voiced your stance, Joe, and I can respect that (I do not necessary agree with it). I am little bit disappointed to find that your position is based on a what appears to be a relatively shallow and one-sided understanding of what is currently going on in one particular part of the world, and only that particular part of the world.

    Your Russian colleague probably suffers from the same syndrome, so there is nothing to add there.

  36. For F1’s purposes, how is Russia different from Bahrain? If you go to Bahrain and China, what’s the difference in going to Russia? Which types of political risk do you accept, and which do you find to be over the line?

      1. The fault in my sentiment index proposal, is that agencies never want to be seen taking any kind of stance, even by some mathematical index. I have always had real issues with a industry which solves client conflict by becoming holding companies. We see how well this fails, when in reality, in any argument, you have to take sides. Maybe only your own, or as the character Simon Weisz, played by Sir Ian Holm, said, maybe they want no one to win….

  37. It’s funny how History doesn’t change – it’s just repeats itself with different names – Your book “The Grand Prix Saboteurs” outlines a fair number of races in questionable places at decidedly dodgy times …. and the heroes of those times…….. and then we come to today …. F1 happily goes to US when the Fanatically Patriotic US overruns Iraq and Afganistan ((You may not agree with this -) on a premise of Terrorists but really it’s Oil and Copper resource steal) and now we have another Wealthy Superpower asking for and getting a race…… and for whatever reasons we can sit here and say that one is OK (I don’t) and the other is wrong. We must be able to see the Hypocrisy of that but I have to agree with you Joe ……..”Right now, most of F1′s revenues come from liberal nations. If there is the perception among these people that Russia is the bad guy, then it is wise not to risk damaging the sport ” (Sport = Income …….. Hmmm ! ) Only trouble is Joe….that F1 Leaders – Mr Ecclestone and Mr Todt are happy to send the Sport into questionable places at decidedly dodgy times ….. Oh well ! Roll on new GP’s in China, Malaysia, Abu Dhabi, S. Korea, India, Bahrain, ( have I missed some) and possible races to come in Sochi, Mexico, Baku, New Jersey, N.Korea, Iraq, Afganistan, Syria, Colombia etc. or can F1 be seen as the first stage of Liberation. (Interesting Sociology actually) of course, problems may also be developing in Nations with long standing GP’s as this affects the revenue stream so they get dropped (Portugal, Sweden, South Africa, Argentina, Netherlands, France, Turkey, India (where did I miss) ) …….. but I just sound like I’m giving a report to the CVC cold hearted Money Makers not somebody who has a real passion for F1.

    This all keeps F1 Sport and it’s Income buoyant at 19 or 20 or 21 races but at some point one should ask ….. In the Long Term …. is this damaging the “Sport” irrespective of it’s revenue. Perhaps, at some point , (and I know you have Joe) one needs to question the lack of ethics of Mr Ecclestone and Mr Todt. and “What framework is wanted for the Long Term of GP Racing”

      1. Apparently many people do. I’m afraid it will end as in famous “First they came for the Socialists” if everyone will continue to keep out.

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