Engine politics

There are going to be new engines in Formula 1 in 2014. No amount of propaganda is going to change that. The deal is done and hundreds of millions of dollars have already been spent on developing the new V6 turbo engines. Anyone who suggests that the whole thing is about to be called off is utterly deluded, or up to mischief.

The question that is being asked in F1 circles, therefore, is not whether the new rules will go ahead, but rather which teams are going to be using which engines. There are 11 teams in F1 at the moment and in 2014 there will be only three engine suppliers, so it does not take a nuclear physicist to work out that each manufacturer will be supplying three or four teams. This is good because it means that the manufacturers will be able to recoup some of their investment that has been made in the research and development phase of the new engines. The prices of the customer engines is going to reflect the money that has been spent, although the manufacturers insist that in a fairly short space of time those prices will come back down again, as their investment eases back.

Ferrari will be using its engines for its factory team and for Sauber, but is out looking for other customers. The word is that Scuderia Toro Rosso will be switching over to Renault, presumably because Red Bull, which provides the primary funding for the Italian team, will work a deal with the folk in Paris for the two teams it owns. The problem with this is that it would give the French manufacturer a total of five teams if one adds Toro Rosso to Red Bull Racing, Lotus F1 Team, Williams F1 and Caterham.

There are some agreements kicking around about the limit of engine supply per manufacturer, but it is not clear whether these extend into the new formula. Perhaps five teams will be deemed to be acceptable. Perhaps not. If not, then something has to give and thus it will be a case of looking at which teams are worth most to Renault, not just in terms of money, but also taking into account success and larger industrial partnerships. In this respect Renault will look favourably on Red Bull Racing and Caterham, albeit for very different reasons.

In theory, it might be possible for Renault to supply more teams than is currently the case if the company decided to share its F1 engine technology with partner Nissan, and its Infiniti subsidiary. There has long been talk of such a deal and Infiniti has made much of its technical involvement with Red Bull Racing, in addition to the sponsorship arrangements that exist. The real question is whether or not Renault wants to dilute its image of being the high tech supplier of F1 expertise, for the greater good of the Renault-Nissan alliance. Carlos Ghosn explained all this in some detail in Brazil last year saying that Renault preferred to keep the technology “glow”, while gaining marketing value from the Infiniti sponsorship. It is a bit of a both, but they both gain enough for it to be deemed worthwhile.

The other question is one of development. An engine maker with five teams would have more data and thus be at an advantage compared to an engine maker with three teams. Having said that, Ferrari’s customer engines have only ever won one single victory (Sebastian Vettel’s celebrated win at Monza in 2008 with Toro Rosso) and so teams that want to win tend to make different choices. For those who are climbing the ladder in F1 a Ferrari deal can be useful to get them to the level they need to get a manufacturer of their own (as Sauber did before the BMW deal came along).

Mercedes has had a rather different approach and indeed the company has been embarrassed by its customers for several years now, notably McLaren and Brawn GP. The view in the company has been that a Mercedes win is a Mercedes win, but some would prefer to see the Silver Arrows of the works team doing the winning.

The speculation of late has been that Force India is angling for a Ferrari deal in 2014, which is why it is taking an inordinate amount of time for the team to make a decision about who will be its driver this year. Jules Bianchi is a Ferrari protege and the Italian teams wants him to be race-trained and so would like him in a Force India this year. The team appears to be angling for a subsidised Ferrari deal for 2014, which would be useful in the circumstances.

If a Mercedes deal were to become available, the most likely team to make a grab for it would be Marussia, because it is already in a technical relationship with McLaren and needs an engine for 2014 because Cosworth is not going to be there, thus one can see Mercedes, McLaren and Marussia using Mercs; Ferrari, Sauber and Force India with Ferraris and the rest with Renault.

There is little doubt that some of the teams are scouting about for other manufacturers. This is one of the reasons that the new formula has been created, in an effort to bring in more automobile companies. McLaren might like to one day build its own engines, but the company says that this is not going to happen in the short- to medium- term, while other companies are believed to be looking at the sport and considering if it is a good idea to get involved. Manufacturers tend to come and go from F1 depending on how they are doing (both inside the sport and in the car business as a whole) but all of them know that when it comes to selling products in Asia F1 is amongst the best bets at the moment.

And, if one looks at the sale of luxury cars in Asia at the moment, and the projections for the future, one does ask why is it that there are not more car companies in F1?

Perhaps they are thinking about such projects but intend to wait until 2014 and then swoop in and grab the best brains from the existing firms and so do the job of designing an engine at a fraction of the cost, being able to pick up the knowledge of what NOT to do at a cost that is well below the budget required by the pioneers.

65 thoughts on “Engine politics

  1. Is there a conflict of interest with Ferrari and Mercedes supplying engines to other teams? Imagine if Force India started beating Ferrari regularly…
    (it’s only a hypothetical question!)

    1. @patrick – your hypothetical situation has already happened quite a lot as Joe already mentioned in the article: in the 3 years of its existence Mercedes has been soundly beaten by McLaren (a customer team) in almost every race.

      1. @mluisbrown – thanks for that, yet one assumes whoever makes the engine must have the upper hand, unless the customer team improves it. Just me thinking conspiracy and sabotage.

    2. Renault has never had an issue, and if you remember Norbert on the podium at Nico’s win, Mercedes don’t have that issue either. Ferrari, on the other hand…

    3. To add to your concern, before Sauber partnered with BMW, it was Ferrari customer and in those days there were always murmurs about Ferrari customer engines not having enough grunt as the works engines, of course lots have changed since the days of V10 engines (and reliability issues that decided race outcomes). Last year in the early part of the season, the kind on tyres Sauber was embarrassing the works team, so much so, that when Perez wobbled in Malaysia while chasing Alonso, the entire works vs customer engine relation and those conspiracies did surface and made rounds for weeks until fans had a next scandal to chew on.

  2. I think that outside car companies look at the shenanigans going on with Bernie and CVC, plus the secretive Concorde Agreement, and wonder if their involvement wouldn’t go the way of BMW, Toyota et al.

    Car companies like VW/Porsche ‘should’ be naturals for F1, but they have seen what has happened before, and they have long memories.

    Plus, they have to find the money to put into an F1 involvement, and many board members are going to oppose going that road, at least for the immediate future.

    1. Car companies like VW/Porsche ‘should’ be naturals for F1, but they have seen what has happened before, and they have long memories.
      >> Even the recent memories have not been that good. For e.g. the current engine regulations too had false start. All team representatives and engine manufactures got together and agreed-on V4 Turbo engines for all racing categories governed by FIA, and the environment had become conducive for multiple manufacturers getting involved in F1 (and other FIA governed series), only for Bernie and Luca Montezemolo ganged up and put a kibosh on Jean Todt’s proposal.

      If Jean Todt had remained firm ( like his predecessor), it would have sent a positive signal to the car makers about seriousness of FIA on a road relevant technological innovation through motor racing.

      Alas we have missed that boat. Hopefully, the teams are ready for 2014 with the now agreed upon engine specs and we have no dramas prior to 2014 season start. But then what would F1 be without these dramas?

      Having followed F1 long enough, I always tell my friends, that these dramas are part of the entertainment.

    2. They believe they get better value from other forms e.g Audi/Le Mans, Porsche Carrera Cup,
      Whilst there is high demand for luxury cars in Asia at the moment, F1 only aids Ferrari in this respect. Infinit and their ‘My other car is a RB9″ just doesnt work in branding terms for me. There is a disconnect between luxury car manufacturers , the larger holding groups that control them and F1.
      Could you imagine VWF1 Racing? Perhaps they could run four cars and call themselves The Beetles.

    3. Something else that, in my opinion, reeks of corruption is the entire Ferrari are more equal than everyone else ‘thing’. Surely, that can’t sit well with the boards of large manufacturers who may be considering starting an involvement in F1 ?

    1. At the end of 2008, when Mercedes agreed to help out Ross Brawn and Nick Fry keeping the remains of the Honda team alive by giving them Mercedes engines, Mclaren was still the “works” team of Mercedes. I think they also still owned a part of Mclaren at that point.

  3. Regarding the comment of McLaren building it’s own F-1 engines, is the Sports Car MP4-12C M838T engine really built by McLaren? As I know it derives from a Nissan racing engine, which in the end is also Renault….

    1. Yes, it is definitely a McLaren Automotive built engine. I see the chaps dipping their own made engine internals into tiger water – acid cleaner – quite often.

      1. Yes, but I believe the original design was based on an engine created by TWR for an Infiniti racing engine, and bought from John Menard…

  4. How will engine homologation work in 2014?

    With so little time for testing it would be wrong to freeze engines should a reliability concern be found in season, But we all know how reliability upgrades have worked during the current freeze.

    There may also be questions over whether performance may need to be rebalanced if one engine is clearly far better or far worse than the others – and open development could reduce the discrepancy or increase it.

    With only 3 engine suppliers it would be in no-ones interest to embarass one of them so that they wouod consider withdrawal.

  5. Joe what do you think Martin Whitmarsh was trying to achieve by telling the BBC that on one week the teams want to use the V6 and the next week they do not? Was he acting on behalf of someone and if so why?

  6. Not so long ago, there were rumours of Honda coming back (with McLaren) – dare say that’s dead now, which would be a shame. McLaren-Hondas, with a link up for Marussia too, would be a nice circle to complete, what with Williams’ Renault deal.

  7. There is not only a lot of monney spend on the development of 6 cilinder turbo engine, Craig Pooluck’s Pure engine company started already with the development of a 4 cilinder turbo engine, when the plans were as such.

  8. There is the curve ball of P.U.R.E which could be a cosworth esque supplier to a few teams. I believe they’re still pressing on and they do have serious talent in there but i suppose its a bit of a risk to take it on.

      1. Ahh yes sloppy commenting on my part! A quick google says they “suspended” their development in July 2012 and then radio silence.

        Next time you bump into anyone whos around the Toyota facility ask and see, its a shame if no-one picked it up because they had the right sort of people working in the right place. (well apart from the Germany part – the facilities are good and getting good engineers in Germany isn’t hard – engines im assuming (dangerous) are more generic technology so dont feature the usual pains of putting F1 development outside the two pockets.)

  9. Any news on PURE? Also are Cosworth definely pulling out?

    Autosport are suggesting that the reason Sutil is in the frame for a seat is a Mercedes engine deal. Hadn’t thought about that angle, but would surprise me if Merc wanted to associate their brand with a convicted criminal, even if he is German.

  10. So presumably Craig Pollock’s outfit never got off the ground.

    The Sporting regs say in Article 13.3
    “A major car manufacturer may not directly or indirectly supply engines for more than three teams of two cars each without the consent of the FIA. For the purposes of this Article 13.3, a major car manufacturer is a company whose shares are quoted on a recognised stock exchange or the subsidiary of such a company.

    Obviously this rule and the definition is a little out of date.

    The Tech regs for 2014 have already been modified to remove the “electric only in the pit lane” clause (most unfortunately and misguidedly in my opinion) so despite the desirability of stable regs there are “people” still determined to make as much difficulty as possible for an engine spec they do not approve of regardless of the vast amount already spent on it.

  11. Hi Joe, everyone,
    I thought that all this Tech. was being shared with the road car engineers of the various companies, as it should be useful research for high performance / low fuel usage road power plants. This should mean that the costs are shared, say 30/70 ? Or do the teams cough up and the road car engineers laugh?
    I remember some gur (name escapes me) went from the FIA to PURE with all the basic research submitted by the manufacturers. Renault, in particular, were rather upset. Is this gentleman with one of the big three now?

  12. If I remember correctly, didn’t McLaren plan to split from Mercedes and start developing their own engines at one point? I might have my stories mixed up.

    1. Perhaps you’re confusing McLaren Automotive with McLaren Racing. The decision was made to sever ties with Mercedes Benz after the less than stellar collaboration which produced the SLR; the MP4-12C and forthcoming P1 use internally developed engines rather than AMG sourced units; that said (and as Joe said) it will take some time before that engineering knowhow becomes mature enough for McLaren to build an engine for F1 reliable and powerful enough to compete with what they have now.

        1. Though Mercedes’ displeasure with the P8 and P11 road car programmes and a difference of views over the value of Ron’s and Mansour Ojieh’s share were part of it, I think.

  13. Whilst the engine rules appear to have been well intended, a look at the financial health of most manufactuers indicates that there is little money to invest in F1.

  14. If one wants to be picky, it’s based an ex-le mans Nissan engine. Heavily redesigned snd built in in a specially built factory in Shoreham on Sea by Ricardo.

    As I understand it, McLaren Automotive bought the rights to the design outright.

  15. Joe, when you started writing about a possible limit of engine supply for a manufacturer I’d thought you might be saying we could be seeing the Williams car powered by a Ferrari engine.

  16. My guess is that Adrian Sutil was in the car for Force India today as part of the bargaining process between the team and Ferrari. Sutil may be the Force India Plan B driver if they cannot get a deal done to run Bianchi and get a suitable Ferrari engine deal for 2014 and beyond.

  17. And, if one looks at the sale of luxury cars in Asia at the moment, and the projections for the future, one does ask why is it that there are not more car companies in F1?

    Sportscar racing ist a far better choice for manufacturers as we see with Toyota and Porsche coming back in WEC. The Merger ALMS/Gran Am will probably attract five major compagnies in 2016.

    F-1 is rapidly going downhill… The people in Asia or in the Middle East don’t care about F-1 except in Japan and the rulers of Middle East Emirates.

        1. If you read the story it says that one should expect to see them grabbing people with “the knowledge” in 2014 and then coming into F1 probably in 2016, always on the understanding that they like the F1 environment and the package it offers. Some may be dissuaded by the politics, others by the price…

          1. There were stories in the Japanese press a couple of weeks ago about Honda coming back into F1 in some capacity.

            (Cue some people to start dreaming about McLaren-Honda, or even Williams-Honda, in 2015…)

          2. Speaking of politics, what do you think is more off-putting for manufacturers – the Bernie-esque way F1 is being run, or CVC arguably controlling the finances and sucking lots of money out of the sport ?

            I had a few dealings with the German car makers, and got the impression that more than anything, they want to be in charge .
            Even with BE’s legal issues in Germany, I could imagine them being more compliant with Bernie’s somewhat charming shenanigans, than an anonymous financing group at the rudder .

      1. I fell sorry, for the half a billion of TV viewer, sportscar has NOW the best racing of the two and by far… I’m fell very pleased to be in that very exclusive Club 22.

      2. Well no longer above 500 million despite the padding going on at Princes Gate I think the point was that non F1 motorsports are more relevant to manufacturers hence the exodus from F1 into Le Mans WEC etc and the failure of them to return despite rule overhauls.F1 still remains a better prospect for niche manufacturers in terms of teams and who knows with regards to engine supply.
        All minor change when you consider that one NFL game gets close to a quarter of the annual F1 TV audience in its home territory and the same again internationally.

        1. It is over 500 million. Unless you got through the entire process and come up with an alternative figure, you have no right to question their numbers. On the quedstion of NFL. If it is such a big audience how come no-one has any interest over the horizon of the US?

  18. Based on very little other than an interview from Martin Whitmarsh back in 2012, but I predict Renault supplying 6 teams in 2014, Ferrari 3 and Mercedes 2.

    I see Mercedes ultimately wanting to supply the factory team only, and I expect part of Toto and Lauda’s remit will be to encourage new manufacturers to the sport.

    1. Supplying one team doesn’t make sense. You’re best off spreading your bets across multiple GOOD teams. That way your chances of winning are best. Look at Renault – whether Lotus or RB or even Caterham win, they still get the glory.

  19. Asia, luxury car sales, brands, teams, money, TV viewing figures, Concorde Agreement, I can see FIAT stepping up and entering Ferrari, Maserati, Lancia, Alfa Romeo as troubles overtake Force India, Sauber, Marussia, Torro Rosso, why they could end up owning the whole of Formula 1 ex CVC…………

  20. Is Force “India” not playing a financial discount game?

    Germany vs Italy AKA Sutil vs Bianchi or Mercedes vs Ferrari?

    (Both need sides need to develop op their engines for 2014, McLaren is a Dark Horse in this game: without them Force India would be, well, not be a constructor in the current game)

  21. “Anyone who suggests that the whole thing is about to be called off is utterly deluded, or up to mischief.” I suspect that there can often be a great deal of correlation between these two attributes…

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