If you zip round a little on the Internet you can find a lot of F1 stories related to the word “threat”. You can read about Fernando Alonso threatening not to stay at McLaren, you can read about Pirelli threatening to quit if there is no testing allowed. You can read a lot of stuff about Red Bull: “Horner outlines reality of Red Bull quit threat”, “Red Bull boss Marko issues fresh F1 quit threat” and so on.
Threatening to do something is often a sign of weakness. If you need to threaten, the other parties in the negotiation obviously do not consider that quitting is an option. The threat only really works if the other parties believe that it is in your best interest to follow through on the threat.
To establish a credible threat, one also needs to have an adequate alternative. Fernando Alonso threatening to quit McLaren, for example, is not that credible because there is nowhere else that wants him, that he would go to. So his only real alternative is to retire. Thus, there is no real threat. Retirement or a sabbatical is not what Alonso wants. He is getting old in F1 terms and what he really needs is to be in a fast car and to add to his score before his career runs out. If he makes the wrong decisions in his career, he has only himself to blame. Stopping because he is frustrated is not ultimately of any value to him. If he wants to break his contract – worth $40 million a year – McLaren would probably be only too happy, as it would save them money at a time when that commodity is in short supply than usual. And it has no shortage of drivers. Yes, perhaps Alonso is a bit special, but does it matter if the car is not good enough?
The Red Bull quit threat is one that seems to suggest desperation. Red Bull has been in the sport and used it to good effect for more than 20 years, thus to quit would be illogical unless things have changed and Red Bull does not see F1 as being as good a way to deliver a message than it traditionally has been. Red Bull has enjoyed plenty of success in F1 and does not like to have put itself into a position where it will be tough to be successful in the years ahead. But does Red Bull have a better alternative?
It is a bit like when Ferrari used to threaten to leave F1. This was never a credible threat because no other form of motor racing offers Ferrari the exposure and the money that allow it to not even bother with traditional advertising. Motorsport is Ferrari’s only form of advertising and everything except Formula 1 gets minimal coverage. Audi may win Le Mans a dozen times but if one has to back up sporting success with advertising the only value in the sport is in the technology it is developing and (perhaps) in the attitude it fosters in engineers and throughout the company in general
Red Bull needs to face up to the fact that it has put itself into a corner by ditching one engine supplier and failing to have another one lined up. It now finds itself over a barrel and must accept the terms on offer or stomp away and disappear from the F1 scene. Red Bull has tried IndyCar and NASCAR in the past and given up both of them. It is involved in various other championships but it knows the value these have, in comparison to F1. It is involved in soccer. The fact that it has been in F1 to such a huge degree indicates the importance of F1 and thus the weakness of the Red Bull threat.
The only real option that makes sense is for Red Bull to do what McLaren did a generation ago when it lost Honda engines. There were no real alternatives at the time but McLaren agreed terms to run Ford customer Cosworth engines, at a time when Benetton was the Ford factory team. The fact that McLaren went on to beat Benetton 5 victories to 1 showed that McLaren was a better option for a manufacturer and so that enabled McLaren to land a Peugeot deal and when that did not work out, to sign up with Mercedes. And that led (eventually) to a new era of great success.
If Red Bull wants to leave F1, a lot of people in the sport really do not care. Someone will come along and buy the teams and the sport will make modifications if the costs continue to make life hard for the midfield. It would be nicer to see Red Bull knuckle down and get back to winning ways.
joeblogsf1 
Best Joe article ever.
Agree completely. Probably the best summation of the current F1 whinging/threatening ever written!
Red Bull need some kind of tie up with Cosworth – they produced a V6 turbo design study back in 13/14. Once VW have the cash and start the Red Bull investment they can do the rebrand on the engine in the same was as Mercedes with Illmor in 90’s.
Nice. I think it’s also fair to say that the power of a threat diminishes each time you make it. People might be shocked and concerned to start with but gradually they’ll just get fed up. We are at the point with the Red Bull quit threat that people would be quite happy to see it happen just so they can read a different headline!
I guess the “empty threat” thing is why it helps Button a bit to have people seriously think he might want to call it a day on his career so that Ron will refrain from letting the option drop to negotiate a better deal?
Red Bull leaving is indeed very much like Alonso quitting. Sure they can, it will cost some money, but the issue really is: what then to do.
And I seriously doubt Mateschitz is prepared to just throw away the money invested in his two teams (he is rich enough to not just lose money like that) – he is still supporting STR even if he wanted to sell it off a few years back afterall – and Renault is clearly showing that there aren’t that many buyers even for a bargain deal currently.
Mateschitz can afford to toss it away financially. Can he do the same thing morally?
Morally? I’m sorry, this is F1. Morality is always prefaced with other letters: im or a being the usual additions.
Sure can he afford to do so (it would likely also mean the end of the Austrian GP), but he hasn’t gotten rich by throwing money down the drain.
Remember when he wanted to load off STR and no one wanted to pay his price, he rather kept it too instead of taking a loss.
I’d like Alonso at Haas next year…
Lol, yes that would be a good opportunity for him to climb the ladder to a seat at Ferrari when one opens up!
Ah, a refreshing column, Joe. If you need to fall back on threats to get your way, you’re doing something wrong (also true for relationships and employment). Sadly Red Bull is doing worse than threats this year, they have shown that they are an unsupportive partner to an engine supplier. I (if I would have been a supplier) would think twice before giving a team like that an engine, with the knowledge they can drop you like a hot potato.
When Niki Lauda is making noises about how Mercedes wasn’t properly asked by RedBull for a power unit, this gets one’s attention. When Lauda then personally travels to Mayfair to ask Bernie about the lack of tv coverage in Suzuka is makes me ask why he couldn’t just pick up the phone? Will RedBull have a Mercedes PU next season?
No
Prince’s Gate is in Knightsbridge, not Mayfair.
Joe I have heard that Mr Mateschitz may keep hold of the Milton Keynes factories if they do pull out of F1 likewise Faenza for other activities. Any truth in that?
Sounds stupid to me
Don’t blame me Joe blame Autosport which has Mr Horner quoted as saying,
“Dietrich has made the situation very clear. We’ll have to look at another activity.Milton Keynes is full of a lot of talent. We would have to look at where we apply that talent.” What do you make of that Joe?
There is currently a competition going on to be Pinocchio of the Year in F1 and there are impressive noses out there.
Could Red Bull simply not run the factory for a Le mans effort as in having their own team?
Why bother?
Joe, I don’t get why Red Bull didn’t do an engine based on the Renault with an Infiniti badge on it! I totally agree with your thread through your article, all this moaning is painful!
My guess would be a combination of ownership of the intellectual property and cash.
As the engines are all leased, Red Bull does not actually have access to them to be able to do anything like that. Even if they had the means to do so technically (that is why they tried to get Audi to build them an engine).
I guess the money needed is also an issue, but that is far less of a hurdle for Mateschitz I would think
Hi Joe
As far as Alonso, what about Grosjean’s seat at Renault? Not possible due to money and their current instability? I would say it would damage Alonso’s reputation to move again but we all know nothing seems to effect his reputation 🙂 I understand the frustration of the McLaren drivers but it is not like they were not aware of the struggles ahead when they signed.
I doubt if either driver thought the Honda would be so pitiful, and with little scope for testing you can’t see next season being much better, or the season after. Where’s the motivation for either of them, other than the money which they both have enough of. McLaren may as well put a couple of test/reserve drivers into the cars for the next year or two and hope that they can maintain cash flow as their sponsorship dries up.
Alonso returning to Renault would be a great story. Would anyone think any the less of him for making that move?
If the Honda starts performing next year, and the Renault does not, it would be tragically hilarious to see Alonso trundling around at the back again. I think Red Bull and Alonso have the same problem. When you slag off your girlfriend all the time, no one else wants to go out with you! 😉
Joe: “It is a bit like when Ferrari used to threaten to leave F1. This was never a credible threat because no other form of motor racing offers Ferrari the exposure and the money that allow it to not even bother with traditional advertising.”
You have to remember that Enzo Ferrari stopped going to races and relied on reports from trusted people. He lived his life around Modena, and unless he was chatting to people from Maserati, he was mostly with Ferrari people. He didn’t like meetings and he didn’t like lifts. He enjoyed new technology and loved his Minis and Renaults.
Enzo Ferrari paid for his F1 team by racing sports cars which he sold to wealthy people. Few people thought an F1 team mattered other than Ferrari himself and the people who wanted to make racing cars. The Ferrari organisation has changed so that F1 racing is part of the marketing budget for road cars, and the road car company makes a profit.
Red Bull pay for F1 by selling beverages. It is part of the marketing budget too. F1 is a personal indulgence for the company boss and I doubt whether many Red Bull executives feel the imperative to build racing cars.
Motor sport depends on Red Bull money. Red Bull give money for two F1 teams, the Red Bull driver programme, the teams providing cars to young drivers, a motor racing circuit in Austria, sponsorship for rally and rally cross cars and saloon racers. Plus sponsorship in MotoGP and Superbikes. And event sponsorship.
It will take a lot of time for lawyers to unravel Red Bull’s contracts in motor sport. If Red Bull wants to walk away from motor sport in December 2015, it will cost them a lot more than the CVC payment. It’s one good reason why Red Bull will be around for a while.
When Red Bull dilutes its driver programme and offers shorter contracts to events and teams, we’ll know that the company is departing.
Good post!
Ooooch! but Fair
“Red Bull has tried IndyCar and NASCAR in the future and given up both of them.”
Joe, do you own a modified Delorean by any chance?
Love the blog by the way. Appreciate the effort you put in.
Agreed. The whole Red Bull thing smacks of desperation. Williams have a far more illustrious history but accept customer engines. The McLaren example is also a good one. Accept where you are and make the best of it, Red Bull. And remember it’s your own fault you are where you are.
Another great piece, I think McLaren would be better off with £50m going in to the car over salary. Button is at the end of his career and already making noise that he wants a Webber style sports car life.
Alonso has an almost Shakespearean fatal flaw in his ability to disrupt rather than unify a team (when Flavio is not about). I think Dennis/McLaren were bonkers taking him back
honda pay the driver bills, honda name the drivers? the strange bit is why ron dennis came back to the f1 team
Right on Brother. You get to the top by building a concrete base and understanding the game. Head down A up is is the only way.
“Red Bull has tried IndyCar and NASCAR in the future”
My lord Joe, I know you have your fingers on the motorsport pulse, but this has taken your knowledge to new levels!
(good article, and well made points. If I sold my house, I’d make damn sure I had somewhere to move to first.)
they have always had the option of a customer spec engine, its their insistence/assumptions about getting a works spec engine that has caused them problems. to torture the analogy, if you sell your house, there will always be another house to buy, just maybe not in the town or street you aspired to. oh dear, i think i killed it…
A great deal of common sense in this post, Joe: thank you!
What a great success you mean regarding McLaren Mercedes? Yes they won plenty of races but only 3 Driver’s titles and the only Constructor’s… throughout 20 years!!!
You have said it yourself… They won a lot of races. That is succses
What Joe said…
It’s great to have an expectation of winning and always wanting to be first. But, the reality is everyone (well, most anyway) wants the same thing, but only one can do it each year. To me, that doesn’t mean everything but first is a failure. McLaren has had a lot of success (barring most recently) over the last 20 years.
It’s true – much as certain readers don’t like it, F1 is the only branch of motor sport that gets decent world-wide coverage these days. Maybe things have to change and our sport be re-shaped, as you have said earlier. It would be a shame for Red Bull to leave but the facilities are there and someone would no doubt pick up the pieces. Look at Lotus – despite their difficulties recently they’ve put in some creditable performances. New American team next year – I’m optimistic.
I’d contest that F1 is the only branch of motor sport getting decent world-wide coverage these days. MotoGP is broadcast across 87 networks in 207 territories (admittedly here in the UK, the situation has deteriorated compared to when the BBC had coverage rights due to the move to BT) but the last numbers I saw quoted in terms of global viewing figures was something like 225M+ worldwide (used to be 300M when F1 was up at 600M back in 2010). It was the 7th most watched sport according to some reports back in 2011 too although I suspect that’s taken a hit given the move to PPV in the UK. Nevertheless, whenever I’m traveling for work I tend to find it easy enough to find coverage of the latest race in most parts of the US and Europe.
Motorcycling is a completely different genre, with a very different audience. In this conversation, it is not relevant. In any case MotoGP is contracting in the U.S. There were three races a couple of years ago. In 2016 there will be one. Red Bull could have saved them and did not.
I agree that its not relevant with regard to the Red Bull situation. Was responding to Stephen’s notion that F1 is the only branch of motorport that gets decent world-wide coverage. I would however disagree that the audience of the two is very different – I watch both and have found plenty of others who do so too (including a certain Mark Webber of Queanbeyan, Australia). Niki Lauda attended Brno in August and described it as “the most incredible racing you can see today” – he of all people is probably the most qualified to judge.
I too watch Moto GP but on ITV4 when I can. It is interesting to see the dramatic drop in ratings of live races on BT – compared to SKY ratings on F1 which are far better, roughly four times better, and this with the BBC often competing against them on free to air. I’m suspicious of many TV figures around the world because I just don’t believe that many countries have as sophisticated or reliable a system as ours to measure audience ratings. This being the case, I would re-evaluate the worldwide figures downwards by a substantial amount in line with my estimates above, though I suspect you won’t agree.
I cannot see how Niki Lauda’s quoted comments are any more worthy than the average F1 or Moto GP fan to be honest – it’s just a point of view on a given time on a given day. I doubt he had to buy his ticket, queue in the traffic etc etc…. and Mark competes in a series which barely figures on the ratings scale.
Hi Stephen, interesting points. I do agree Dorna have made a mess of the coverage here in the UK. In other parts of the world however, its not such a calamity. The BT v Sky coparison is a misnomer for a couple of reasons. Firstly there are more Sky subscribers than BT so the potential total pool of viewers is far reduced. Secondly, its been witnessed that regular free to air coverage of a sport maintains general public interest. With the BBC covering several races, this acts almost like a loss leader for Sky who then mop up viewership where the BBC has only limited coverage. This is in stark contrast with ITV’s limited coverage that is on late at night and on a minority channel thereby not doing a great job of enticing joe public. I do agree worldwide audience figures are always estimates. To your point, a higher percentage of MotoGP’s viewership comes from Europe and the US than F1. The latter will take in a larger proportion of estimates from places like South America, the Middle East and India. I daresay the technology to monitor viewership in those regions is less accurate than in the Europe so I would agree while both sports have ‘bloated’ and put a positive spin on worldwide viewership, its probably F1 who have less reliable data points.
The point on Lauda and Webber are that they are more qualified than you or I to determine which of the two categories of motorsport present a greater challenge or provides the better sporting contest. Both have been professionals in the sport (one a triple world champion and team boss) and understand it to a level neither you nor I would be able to comprehend. Much in the same way we rely on Joe for his learned opinion, these are alternative perspectives that provide another qualified data point of expertise.
I’ve noticed that the media loves the word threaten and in my opinion use it excessively in their efforts to gain page hits. Your example of Alonso is a good one as the media says he threatens but I’ve never read a direct quote from him saying he was threatening to leave McLaren. It seems there is a lot of this type of exaggerated hyperbole in the F1 media now.
Exactly so. Look up ‘jeopardy’ in the inadequate journalist’s dictionary.
Nobody asks; they ‘demand’. Nobody is rude; they are ‘assertive’. Nobody is frightened and runs away; they are ‘terrified’ and ‘panic’.
Button never threatened to retire. He just pointed out that there are other things in life than F1. Alonso never threatened to leave Mclaren. He merely expressed his frustration. There would be something wrong with him if he were not frustrated. Ron Dennis certainly is.
Looks like you can add Pirelli to the “threat list” – if RBR go they’re not sure they’ll continue.
Do these guys even understand that most fans would be glad to see the back of both of them? Or is that just me? Pirelli are fools for allowing their design to be dictated by the organiser IMO.
It’s not just you. There’s nothing really to like about the team. I loved Williams and McLaren because, at heart, they are racers to the core. You would be hard-pressed to say that about Red Bull. I cannot root for a beverage to win a championship.
The team is filled with racers, at the top end they tend to whinge, but it is s great team full of good people
No doubt there are good people. Sadly, it is the top end folks who set the agenda for the rest of us. I am mindful that once upon a long ago, this was Stewart Racing.
Wise words. It is those at the top that should realise they are custodians of the team. If they are to gain public support and sentiment they should represent the organization appropriately. The approach of those in charge will dictate what is deemed acceptable and reasonable culture in any organization and Red Bull is no different. Unlikely as the scenario is, It is disappointing to know that the top brass will not be the ones to suffer if RBR and STR do end up pulling out of F1.
Joe already had ” Pirelli threatening to quit if there is no testing allowed” so they’re doubling down !!
Better to bring back competition between manufacturers again – after all it exists with engines, why not tyres?
I
Complete nonsense …
To what are you referring?
They’re referring to a tyre war Joe. I would agree that the current ‘control tyre’ is not in alignment with the DNA of Formula 1.
red bull may have been in the sport a long time, but its also true that until 2 years ago, the more they invested, the more they got out of it. i dont know how serious the threats are (mark webber says they are serious, would he bs it?) but saying it isnt in their self interest doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it.
ferrari’s quit threats certainly seemed credible when there was talk of a breakaway series. i always assumed they got extra cash to kill that whole thing form behind the scenes. maybe cash was the intention, but theres no reason ferrari need f1 per se, just need to be in the best competition with the best drivers, which is currently f1. maybe the fia give legitimacy and the there wouldve been political reasons not to back a rival series, but as usual the money wouldve ultimately done the talking.
advertising wise, do ppl buy ferraris because they compete in f1? probably not. and do any of ferrari’s competitors on the road advertise traditionally? ferraris usp was that they made road cars to fund the f1 team, which ended the day they got bought out by fiat.
anyway, as i said on a previous article, its clear red bull have already accepted they are getting customer ferrari engines, the question is will they also be subject to ferrari team orders? will they be allowed to beat ferrari? and how long before they start complaining about it?
Breakaway series are never credible
A bit unfair to compare. To my knowledge, Red Bull has threatened. Alonso has not.
One man’s threat is another man’s explanation.
Great article, Joe. Thank you.
Had a bit of a psychologist’s feel to it.
Red Bull’s entreaties since start of 2014, always felt like a threat to me, which had the effect of putting my back up – I did not realise they had been in F1 20 years – so I was and am in the “[bleep] off then” camp.
Multiple threats from an entity are not the only things that weaken a position; seeing F1 survive an earlier crisis, helps too.
For me, the time that multiple teams wanted to leave to form the A1GP breakaway series, was the only time I got scared for the formulae. It survived, so threats to leave by Red Bull, and even Ferarri – which I treated with more weight – did not worry me unduly.
Thank you for the insights, though.
Hoping Ferarri do not compromise themselves, and give RBR a b-spec PU “take it or leave it” offer.
Great article, I always read “threat” articles in the same light as “admits” ones, with a large pinch of salt. Things like “Niki Lauda has admitted to feeling relief after Mercedes returned to the top of the podium in Japan.” turns a common sense attitude into a dramatic event, as if he’d done something wrong…was he being questioned by secret police? Should he not feel relieved? Should he not have worried in the first place? Sigh!
Great article. RedBull are simply bad Winners (a proper phrase as, they used to be exactly that, winners – until recently). Now when they are not winning at will, they start moaning and – yes threatning to leave. I am sure the racing folks behind both Bulli teams could do fine and claw themselves back to their winning ways – with a proper customer (Ferrari) engine, if only their bosses were not spending so much energy on complaining through the press.
About McLaren: Well I guess, if the 2, highly paid, Gentlemen Drivers, keep on their public moaning and negative behaving – not to the liking of Ron Dennis – we might see a pairing of 2 youngsters, Van Doorne/ Magnussen. The team would save around 30 Million a year in wages. And get 2 pcs. 12 year younger drivers, who would fit the current youngster trend in F1 nicely.
Now, that would be great!
Joe,
What % chance exists that Red Bull can undo the divorce with Renault at this point? Or is it totally irreconcilable?
Completely
Hi Joe,
My friend at Red Bull has mentioned something about a Virtual Test Track. Is this something other teams are looking at? I find it odd that they have spent so much money on this project but are now planning to leave the sport.
We already have virtual test tracks
I agree that Red Bull is acting very childish with its threats to quit. Constructive advice is welcome, whining isn’t. But one thing I like about them is that last year I went to one of their global rallycross races and ever couple months they mail me free of charge one of these Red Bull Bulletin lifestyle magazines. It wouldn’t hurt F1 or other organizations to do something similiar to known customers.
LOL… Asset strippers don’t invest
I would have no second thoughts about Alo, RBR and Pir leaving, as a fan that is. Someone else will step in – Stoffel, Mich, whoever(?) and the World will keep turning. If they want to leave, good riddance to them!
Joe I also have question for you if Red Bull pull out of F1 where does that leave the short and long term future of the Austrian GP?
It is a point of very little interest to me. It’s pretty in Austria and to some extent a traditional race, but if F1 goes there it should go also to Magny Cours. It is just about money. The rest is irrelevant. This is why we go to Baku and not to New York.
That’s a point Joe – nothing about a French GP for some time.
I’m interested in threats.
If you turned off all of the electricity in Azerbaijan, and if you told everyone in Baku to turn off their lights and washing machines, it would be easier to light a racing circuit.
But who gets her washing done an how, is always interesting or boring.
Joe
I do not wish to be sycophantic but your window on to what is happening in F1 and some of the background is brilliant.
F1 is a very misty, sometime foggy, environment and I appreciate your efforts to make things more understandable.
On a lighter note I should love to know the ‘handle’ for CS, as in ejector seats, in the F1 media paddock. Is it CS Gas?
No one knows who he is.
No one else wants Fernando? Really? What about Renault? Are they going to buy an existing team, make such an investment (or maybe not such an investment) build a new engine and then settle for Pastor and… Vergne, when Fernando is unhappy, he is 34 and he wants to be WC again? (why Flavio reappeared again and why Prost was talking about Fernando after japan?) For me is either that, waste more time staying at McLaren and vever ever do anything good again or going to the WEC…
This comment fails to address a string of points. Fernando did not have to sign for McLaren Honda. He made that choice. He was lucky to get the deal he got. He completely misjudged the Ferrari situation and lost his seat to Vettel as a result. As soon as Alonso left, the team started winning again. The Lotus team is currently a mess and Fernando does not have time to wait. The team cannot afford him. It has just signed Pastor Maldonado because it needs his cash. Alonso does have a bad reputation as a team player. His years at Ferrari were wasted. Williams could have had him but the team did not want him because of his toxic reputation. It is coming up to 10 years since Fernando last won a World Championship.
I took into account all that, Joe, I’m from Barcelona and I already know all of that, because Fernando is always in the news. The current situation comes down as yet another bad decision, but that doesn’t mean he has to stay at McLaren or that he has to feel happy? The same way he can’t wait for Renault, he can’t wait for Mac to be competitive again, after such a season. Renault can’t afford him? Who’s telling you he’d have to be payed the same amount as McLaren? Who’s telling you he wouldn’t bring a sponsor? Who’s telling you Renault wouldn’t want him even though he’s the best bet to develop a car and also because he still has a solid marketing image (Button doesn’t sell cars, Fernando still does), and are ready to pay him a lot of money?
I perfectly know he’s toxic, I personally know people who worked with and helped him right up to his F3000 days and they were horrified he just said, when he won in Brazil 2005, that only four people (his family) were the only ones who ever helped him. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg… Just remember 2007 (I don’t have to tell you that, you know it better than me.)
I don’t like him at all, as a person. But he’s still the best out there, for pure driving technique, how he can read a race and for he’s not afraid of anyone. And he won’t do the same as Hamilton in Hungary, this year…
Just because everything you said, which is all true of course, does it mean he has to stay put?
Do You think Fernando is better than Sebastian? It’s hard to believe Ferrari would have traded Fernando for a lesser driver since they had contracted Fernando for two more years. It seems at least Ferrari believe Vettel is better than Alonso.
Or maybe Ferrari just had enough of Fernando’s moaning and chose for a change.
Joe> Williams could have had [Alonso] but the team did not want him because of his toxic reputation.
Very interesting when you consider who one of the senior decision makers in that process would have been; someone who knows him very well…
By the way, thanks Joe for all the replies to comments you’ve been doing the last couple of days – some real gems in them (like the above).
It is interesting how neither Ferrari nor Williams felt compelled to retain/sign Alonso despite him categorically outclassing drivers that are currently occupying one of each respective teams’ cars. That says it all methinks.
Well put, Joe.
Frankly I’m a bit surprised it’s taken Alonso this long to start complaining so loudly. For the sake of McLaren, I hope his toxicity doesn’t get too out of control.
As for Red Bull…screw ’em. Throw your toys from the pram and quit if you want. It may be short term damage to F1, but the sport will go on without them. They’ve had plenty of success in the last decade. Their sense of entitlement is more than a bit annoying.
Brilliant … I would expect nothing less from F1’s best journalist…
A while back I posted on your blog that I thought Red Bull to be a rather weak team ..
The proof of the pudding …..
So…red bull have lost a four time champion, the best designer of his generation, and their engine in about the space of a year (while pretty much guaranteeing with their treatment of said engine supplier and Pirelli that no one will want to partner with them in absence of personnel mentioned above).
the fact that none of this is seen as a sacking offence by Dietrich makes me seriously wonder about his perspective on what he wants from the sport.
Maybe when he walks in the woods, the trees don’t tell him the right things.
LOL, how poignantly put!
Great Article Joe, you said it right…… I never like Vettel , than realize , silly me it was Redbull that I didnt like…..
They have become big cry babies. They should learn from Williams
When you’re threatening with suicide, the worst part is when nobody listens.
If I hit the powerball lottery tonight, I will buy Toro Rosso for from Dietrich. That’ll be one less worry for him. Come on lottery!!!!!
Joe, without analysis like yours (eg the fines payable by RB if they leave), the fans would not be able to understand how empty these threats are and hence the true negotiating positions round the F1 table.
Do you think that Honda would be a viable option given that they currently only have one team and would benefit from having a second leading team to assist with development?
Thanks for sharing your insights.
Honda is not interested.
Thanks for the confirmation!
The biggest mistake anyone can make is holding a core belief in their own indispensibilty. Everyone can be replaced. Even one named Bernard Eccelstone.
“The graveyards of the world are filled with indispensable men.” Charles de Gaulle.
Very apropos Joe. A pity de Gaulle never heeded his own quote!
The gravity of these “threats” is certain to increase as the F1 viewing audience becomes pay rather than free to air! Plenty will begin to question the expense as the casual viewer finds something else to watch – that’s free…….
Superb articule as well i feel that F1 always being agressive with RBR sucesfull and its seems than their rivals are very scary to offer a engine to they. Why? Thus they currently are the best technical staff that could produce winner cars with the properly engine. Whatever, it will be a shame if we lose both teams.
With the new giulia being a v6 turbo what about Red Bull/Alfa Romeo or ferrari buying them and just Alfa Romeo using badged ferrari engines? (Yes, I’m dreaming!)
All good stuff, Joe, but now I can’t help but think of Jeremy Paxman asking the Honourable Member for Transylvania West “Did you threaten to overrule him?” a dozen times in succession.
> …the Honourable Member for Transylvania West…
😀
Oh great. Pirelli threatening to leave now, if Red Bull leave.
Wonder if they have been co-opted by someone to put pressure on everyone who doesn’t give a stuff if Red Bull go.
Interesting that Michelin are waiting in the wings. I have seen their name mentioned a few times, but JAonF1 revealed that there is growing support in the paddock for having them.
I don’t see that happening as that would be seen as a victory for JT.
Secondly, I find it bizarre that Pirelli would support RBR,w which kicked the living daylights out of them a while back.
I suspect that Pirelli has been told to deliver a message by someone who is in a position to push them around
But what if Michelin outbid Pirelli money wise? We all know Mr E likes more money.
I doubt it.
I would also like to raise two further points on the Red Bull situation for 2016:
1. Joe I have given it some further thought and I know think think Mr E will help RBR/STR get 2016 specification engines . He sees Red Bull as a valuable asset to F1’s global image and will do anything to help them.
2 . Joe is at all possible that Red Bull could agree a compromise deal that would see the senior RBR team use 2016 spec Ferrari engines while the junior STR team uses year old 2015 spec engines?
Your views Joe on what I have said and asked?
Mr E is clearly pushing for a deal with Ferrari. They are happy to take the money. The only people fussing are Red Bull and they have only themselves to blame.
Is this Bernie and the big ‘M’ working to devalue F1, to what end?
Button’s threats seem to have paid off.