The interesting thing about the Verstappen-Kvyat switch is that it removes Max from the driver market. He has a contract with Red Bull for the 2017 season, but after that would be free to sign elsewhere and there is no doubt that Max was on the radar at both Mercedes and Ferrari. I would suggest that the decision to promote Max now means that there was probably a contract renegotiation as well, with more money and an extended deal that will take Verstappen off the market for at least two more years. There may also be an option for 2020 as well. The team hopes that by then it will have a competitive engine and so can again win races.
An amusing response from Ferrari might be to hire Daniel Ricciardo to replace Kimi Raikkonen, which would give the Milton Keynes team a team without much experience…
joeblogsf1 
Very high stakes at RBR now. If Verstappen doesn’t start to outperform Ricciardo after an adequate bedding-in period, his stock will start to fall. For the Aussie, consistently outshining F1’s wunderkind will make that seat at Ferrari even likelier, Vettel or no Vettel. If he can’t match him though …
Just my opinion but the Ricciardo-Ferrari talk is just that – talk. I can’t see Vettel being happy about having Ricciardo as a roomie again. Dan smoked him in their year together at Red Bull. He knows what a popular guy Dan is and how quickly he can gel with his team and get the job done on the track also. He’s also not one to sit in the corner and do what he’s told if team orders come into play. Grosjean similar to Dan but more likely I think given his Haas links to Ferrari.
It’ll be interesting to see how much influence Vettel has over his team mate. He’s used to getting his way. Decision might come from the top though. If Marchionne wants two guns then Vettel will have to put up with having a hungry fast young guy as a team mate rather than a past-his-best buddy like Kimi.
Did anyone suggest it was anything other than that?
Ricciardo “smoked” Vettel eh? What, the same way that Kyvat smoked Ricci last year…?
Kimi is fast this year, almost as fast as Vettel. In the standings he’s 3rd and best non Mercedes while Vettel is only 5th behind the 2 Mercedes, his teammate and a Red Bull.
The key word is almost.
Joe,
Jos confirmed as much.
It’s a multi year deal with Max given room to adapt and learn for the remainder of this season. Jos expects Max to need some time to adapt to the new car and team.
The bookies rate Max higher than Daniel…
Bookies react to bets placed, look at England’s odds in World Cups etc…
Alas Führer Marko gets what he wants again, even if its at the expense of a young talent who will soon join the club of Red Bull drivers unceremoniously terminated.
To be fair I think we’ve lived through a period of relative stability for drivers in recent years. It seems to me that back in 1990s and before the career prospects of young drivers were very much more uncertain than they have been in more recent years.
I think this change has been good for the sport. It adds a welcome element of excitement.
Who was it said that racing drivers were like light bulbs? Very shoddy treatment for a young kid to be the scapegoat for Red Bull because of pressure from Jos Verstappen, after Kvyat gets a podium. A contract should be for the whole season, and the only other driver should be the designated test driver in case of injury.If i was Carlos Sainz I’d be looking elsewhere for next year.
Looks like Kvyat was the recipient of the same patience Renault was afforded, they must be hopped up and fidgety actually drinking that fizzy modern day elixir. I liked the way the kid stood up to Vettel who was grousing for the cameras and his expectant bosses(prone to his own errors earlier in his career.
I get Verstappen is supposed to be the ‘second coming’ and it will be interesting to see things play out, but it’s a shabby way to treat Kvyat, poor kid – just ask the reformed first lap nutcase himself Grosjean now being touted as a talented veteran.
Red Bull it gives you whinge. Boo fricken hoo. Horner taking orders from Vettel on the pitwall, grow a set.
And I can’t help but think Ferrari would like the chance to put one over Redbull after Redbull announced Vettel was leaving
Hi Joe,
You were supportive of Kvyat following Sunday, though I’m uncertain how absolute your view on the outcome is within context, thus what is your sentiment on his demotion?
Though he didn’t outrace Ricciardo in 2015, he did outscore him, and he did feature on the podium a fortnight earlier, so are you aware of any underlying issues, other than providing the perfect excuse to promote Verstappen, which triggered this?
The incentive for Daniil, beyond the germane response in this situation,,across the balance of the season, is surely minimal. He can display his talent to potential suitors, though in the long-term picture, his association with Red Bull is effectively numbered.
One can’t foresee his retention at Toro Rosso beyond 2016 with Piere Gasly on its’ books as you alluded to in your ‘driver market’ piece, and surely he won’t be re-promoted to Red Bull in favour of Sainz should Ricciardo move on, lest Herr Marko will appear irrelevant. We couldn’t have that now…
The paradox is that sending him back to Toro Rosso, rather than instantly promoting Gasly, essentially defeats the purpose of this exercise. The fact remains that Daniil is a desperately unlucky captive of circumstance, and is worthy of a berth elsewhere.
For him to be lost to the sport would represent the harshest casualty of the Marko tyranny, when one considers how many times a certain Sebastian Vettel crashed into others and was afforded second, third, fourth and fifth opportunities to redeem himself in his early days.
Vettel won RBR many races and even titles, a big difference between him and Kvyat.
Look at the timescale and the machinery
Joe, do you think they would have started the season with this driver lineup if they’d had any faith in the Renault engine? It seems to be the level of performance they’re now seeing is a surprise to them.
If Max outperforms Ricciardo, then yes, I’d be surprised if Ricciardo didn’t jump ship. The same to apply if Ricciardo outperforms Verstappen!
keep dreaming Joe.
this red bullies promotion is to a hyped-up driver with 10x temper tantrums of the one he replaces.
contrary to many believe the red bullies has ruined more drivers careers than they made.
I agree
So, So true,but people have very short memories.How differently Grosjean was treated by his team when he had his own difficulties, Just look at him now!
Which careers has Red Bull ruined?
Sigh… It is clear
Now now, lets put our claws away and look forward to watching an exciting young talent at the wheel of a competitive car. I think it just what f1 needs right now instead of all the negativity.
I think we are seeing the beginning of the demise of Seb, certainly if Ricciardo joins Ferrari, Seb’s Russian dummy spit could prove very costly…..to him.
There are several very tenuous leaps of logic wrapped up in that statement!
Joe Saward writes:
‘An amusing response from Ferrari might be to hire Daniel Ricciardo to replace Kimi Raikkonen, which would give the Milton Keynes team a team without much experience…’
Not if they replace Daniel with Fernando. He already resisted a RBR offer once, perhaps he won’t do the same mistake twice?
He’s under contract to McLaren and is paid a fortune
Is Fernando contracted to Mclaren for 2017 – Cheers
Yes
A nice & calculated present from the Austrians, today is WWII liberation day in the Netherlands
I’m looking forward to Vettel punting Max out of the next GP at Turn 2. Max can out do seb in the swearing contest
The question is, whether Ferrari would be able to sign Ricciardo for 2017 already, or rather for 2018.
Would be an excellent choice.
Ricciardo at Ferrari.
Italian Aussie with dual nationality .
Though that would create friction with Vettel.
Assuming Vettel hasn’t got an addendum in his contracting stating “that at no point should Ferrari sign Ricciardo ” .
Maybe if this happens Alonso may go knocking on Red Bulls Door?
I don’t think the new CEO of Ferrari would give a fig for any ‘addendum’ Vettel might have in his contract. Mr Marchionne has all the ruthlessness of Mr Marko et al and more. If he wants Daniel in his team, I have no doubt he’ll get him!
However RBR might be a better bet in the long term if they can get a competitive engine. In the meantime none will beat Mercedes until 2020 or so.
I’d like to see Ricciardo out of Red Bull, just seems to nice a guy to be in the viper pit.
Agreed on the condition the new Renault (Tag) upgrade at the Canadian GP doesn’t meet expectations…
> competitive engine
Joe, about that…what’s the Red Bull plan for 2017? Do the new engine rules mean that RBR get Renaults at the new, lower price? Or do Renault get to invoke the ‘no disparagement’ clause and invite RBR to re-sign on 2016’s financial terms (or walk)? Or do RBR have another supplier lined up?
They need to find an engine
Do they [‘need an engine’]? I thought the new process was meant to guarantee them that, and that they and Renault were reasonably keen to renew on the right terms.
Or did you mean a *good* engine? And are their chances for that any better next year than this?
As nuts as it would seem for the Mercedes works team, could the Mercedes board be considering allowing Aston Martin branded power units for RB? Just wondering if there is potentially more to this year’s link up than a few badges on the bodywork and Adrian Newey is designing a supercar for the road.
No sign of that at all
Where will Kvyatts future lie now? Does he have money behind him to land a drive somewhere else?
From what I can remember the track record for drivers after they’re turfed out of the Red Bull program isn’t great, sans Vettel has any former Red Bull alumn picked up a drive? Memory can’t recall one.
One of the downsides to RBR young driver programs and similar, is that young drivers get an all expenses paid trip to the show and never have to develop relationships with sponsors. When their sugar daddy gets bored and runs off with another bright thing, they are left without sponsors and the ability to go racing.
I struggled on that one too – Liuzzi’s brief Force India and HRT stints were the only ones that came to mind. Klien, Doornboos, Bourdais, Buemi, Alguersuari, Vergne, Coulthard, Webber, all left F1 after their RedBull years. Then again the last two actually made it to retirement age…
The last two were not Red Bull juniors. Add to this list Freisacher, Jani, Hartley, Speed, Wickens and more
Red Bull young drivers remind me of the Aztec chosen ones. They have everything they desire and are treated like gods. Until one fine day, when they’re laid out on the alter and Marco swings his axe…
How long is Kvyat’s contract, and is would he be still bound to Red Bull?
This year only I think.
Marco says all 4 drivers are on ‘long term’ contracts, you’ve no more information on the substance of that?
I’m curious about whether Sainz is going to get a drive next year. I hope he does.
Well, long term with Marko seems to be next month…
Asked and answered. I was a bit surprised when I saw the quote. Thank you.
I don’t agree with those who write MV off as a flash in the pan or doomed because of his prematurely (?) meteoric rise. I admit I’m prejudiced. I ran into Max by pure accident at the 2014 Silverstone race weekend when I hiked to the National Paddock rather than the International. There in the F3 Euro paddock I encountered a pimply-faced kid in dark racing overalls with the name “Verstappen” on his Velcro belt.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/vintageracepics70/14084989071/in/album-72157644562816601/
I knew that name! He must be Jos’s son! I had the good fortune to meet him before his first-ever non-karting motor race, and he came off as a nice, polite kid. Afterwards I did some research, and a comment I read has always stuck with me. A race engineer said about Max: “He’s the best I’ve ever seen. Ever.”
We may–may–just be witnessing, in terms of drivers, the most important moment in F1 history since Schumacher arrived at Benetton a generation ago. I say: Bring it on!
I must be biased I have known him since he was nine!
How good is his sister? Still need that credible female driver…
Simona de Silvestro was plenty credible. I didn’t see BE dipping into his pocket to help her.
That will be Sophia Floersch surely?
Or Ricciardo will dispatch him as he has Vettel and Kyvat!
Verstappen obviously has time on his side, I wouldnt fancy going up against Ricciardo now though, certainly not as an 18 year old, we’re yet to know quite how special he really is.
Even at his age, a couple of years of being slower than Ricciardo will quickly stall the stellar rise.
Whatever people’s thoughts on Red Bull’s actions, you can’t say that this drama hasn’t made what looks like being a great season, that little more interesting!
When the news broke that Verstappen was signed for a F1 seat at TR Trever Carlin stated to Sky’s Anthony Davidson “He’s the best I’ve ever seen.” And he’s seen a lot, including Ricciardo.
I hope Kvyat isn’t written off after this as at 22 he has great potential. He beat Ricciardo last year and even if the Aussie is believed to be the quicker, there’s not much in it. Very few drivers have gone through their careers without meeting a team-mate who was quicker than them: Prost, Mansell, Scheckter, Piquet, Hakkinen, Raikkonen, Keke, Hill snr and jnr, Button, Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Lauda and even, post-comeback Schumacher endured spells when they were bested.
May he also drive for teams which offer a more supportive environment than Marko provides.
No one BELIEVES Ricciardo is quicker. Ricciardo IS quicker overall, and that is quite simply based on fact. Let’s not forget that it was only in his 3rd full season that Ricciardo beat the pants off the second coming of the almighty – ie. Vettel. Ricciardo is probably the most well rounded driver out there – quick over one lap, great media personality, easy on tyres, quick race pace, aggressive when he needs to be, an excellent overtaker and incredibly consistent. There aren’t too many drivers that fit that bill, especially not to Ricciardo’s standard.
I might be getting carried away here, what with Leicester winning the league and all wonder of fairytales….but I can really see Verstappen winning a race this year. how about Monaco? Hungary？ singapore? Might stick a tenner on it.
Ricciardo suddenly may just have the kind of pressure Vettel felt before, though his demeanor is definitely able to cope.
Of course i’m getting ahead of myself…but this in many ways is a super exciting prospect to see just how good this kid is.
Have a lie down
That will be entertaining: Of course to have the young, extremely talented and focused Verstappen in the RB Racer – but also with ever present Jos as the PitBull terrier and “MaxFührer” in the Pits, working together with a grumpy Helmut Marko.
If, IF everything goes well and succesful with Max, Skies have no limits for Dutch F1 future…but….
Kvyat in the STR could conceivably beat Max in the RBR….. That would be funny.
This all smacks of Marko politics once again, Kvyat has been made a scapegoat and I rightly agree that this is all about hanging onto the investment in Max by Red Bull rather than dumping Danill because he ain’t good enough.
He clearly is good enough….
Makes reading about F1 a lot more interesting
The move poses lots of questions for the immediate future: Will Kvyat drive like his life and future depends on it for the rest of the season and manage to pick up points and better results than his teammate or struggle to adapt to a completely different race car? Will Verstappen be ‘unleashed’ and begin competing turn to turn with Ricciardo, Massa and Bottas? It’s such an interesting, unexpected change so early in the season and hopefully it adds to the on-track storylines in the coming races.
SO much going on, so early in the season! Can’t wait for the next Sidepodcast…. which will be….
Another Cameo with Ted K would not go amiss either ;). You’re one of the few who tells it like it is…. Keep up the excellent work Joe!
Soon. We recorded it two days ago
Joe – there is a lot of criticism about the RB model. But surely this is the same as the Williams methodology during their prime? The hypothesis being that it was the car that was the key, not the driver, hence drivers were replaceable. The common ingredient is Newey….
I don’t see that as being the case with Red Bull drivers. They are ruthless because the best of the best.
Seems like Williams drivers tend to have careers at other teams once they reach a level beyond which Sir Frank will pay, while RBR drivers disappear from F1. Williams is more like a Toro Rosso proving ground for drivers, but drivers post-Williams have more options.
Daniil’s a very good driver. Max has the potential to be great. As always, RBR has handled its drivers and image terribly, but the end result is what they wanted- Max at RBR and not being poached by anyone else. It’s probably a premature move re. Max’ development, but that might work out okay- Max develops into a truly elite driver around the time Ricciardo moves on to somewhere else….Ferrari? For the time being, Ricciardo will maintain #1 status without too much friction, though that situation has a pretty short timeline; Max knows how good he can be.
Thank you Joe
..with the up coming rule changes on PU supply, can you see Red Bull Racing using Mercedes power in 2017, even though Toto and co might well not be keen for the obvious reasons ? ….. the rule changes give the established PU suppliers less latitude to refuse supply requests ?
I think they have a TAG deal
Storm. Teacup.
And.
Calm.
One wonders how this ties into the supposed announcement of Heineken becoming a Formula 1 sponsor at the Spanish GP? A coincidence? I think RBR and Bernie had an Idea of what would happen. Maybe even made it happen.
RBR casts a wide net, and invests more money then most, in support of young racers that show potential. It can’t be surprising if they than apply a critical eye as those drivers thrive and subsequently separate the chaff from the wheat.
Are some drivers short changed in this process? Undoubtedly, but at least they had a bite at the apple before being shown the door.
True but it drives away the very best
Silly, Joe. Hadn’t you heard? Max is the very best. Ever. He’s going to align the stars and bring harmony to the universe. We will all be saved.
Just basing that on some articles I’ve read about him.
My heart leaped when I saw your headline-at last a return to some sort of…… at the FIA
Ditto.
I know RB easily dismisses drivers, but if many of them are really good why are so few being picked up by other teams? Is it that other teams value RB’s assessment? Or is it often a case of bad timing? Surely other teams try to use as much data as possible to evaluate drivers, in stead of following a herd-like thinking method of “well they fired him, so I guess we should discard him too”?
Isn’t F1 worried they might miss out on someone and double-check before that person is heading for the exit?
Hi Joe,
I wonder how this is affecting the drivers relations as I found it remarkable that Max seems to get along with most of them sharing planes etc. But according to the media there was some tension between Max and Carlos (Jr.).
Is this all a bit hyped up or does the work related tension disappear when they leave the track?
Thanks
Jeroen
I was not really in a position to judge as one rarely sees the drivers together in a non-controlled environment.