A Dutch Grand Prix?

The town council of Zandvoort has decided to look into the feasibility of reviving the Dutch Grand Prix. This is no great surprise given the rise of Max Verstappen. Having a top F1 driver always makes it easier for promoters to raise money. Having said that, there are significant challenges that are facing such a project, not just raising the rights fee and revamping the circuit, but also finding ways for the town to deal with the kind of traffic that a Grand Prix would generate. The reality is that this will probably make it impossible to do. The track itself would require a great deal of work and new pits and there would likely be challenges from environmentalists as well. The last time the idea was raised, in the 1990s, the provincial government concluded that it would be easier to build a completely new track on the polders near Den Helder, at the northern tip of old Holland. Another option might be the government to help convert an old military base, of which there are several. Having said that, Zandvoort is a well known name and there is no doubt that a race would be good for the local economy. The track would be different for the old GP circuit, used from the 1950s until the mid-1980s, but it still retains a number of the celebrated corners of the original track. The circuit was bankrupted in the late 1980s and half the circuit land was sold. The money raised was used to create a circuit of a similar style but covering only half the area. The land that was sold became a golf course and a holiday camp, now owned by Center Parcs. There is a high earth bank between the circuit and the holiday camp. There is the option of trying to convince the crowd to use public transport to get to the race and the Zandvoort train station is a 20 minute walk to the track, with trains going directly to Haarlem and Amsterdam. There is no real room to extend the circuit facilities as it adjoins a national park.

70 thoughts on “A Dutch Grand Prix?

  1. Joe
    I have been to Zandvoort (in the Andretti / Peterson days), been to Zandvoort as a resort in latter times (and seen the nudist beach just north of the circuit), and worked and traveled extensively in Netherlands, using the train network easily.

    One option here is branding the circuit as “Amsterdam”. It is only about 20 mins train ride from Amsterdam Centraal, and then a pleasant 20 minute seaside walk as you suggest, to the circuit. This would influence visitors to stay in Amsterdam itself, which can easily cope with the tourist numbers.

    As for the circuit, it’s no chance. There is no room for pit buildings etc especially as turn 3, Hugenholtzbocht, compresses right up against the pit access and the finish straight. Somebody going off here with interlocking wheels as F3 cars seem to do this year could easily leap onto the start / finish straight!

    The only option would be to knock down the grandstand opposite the current pits, and swap over pits and grandstand.

    Pity. Watching from the dunes across the sweepers towards Scheivalk is fab, and created some fantastic on car shots in Frankenheimer’s “Grand Prix” movie – Scott Stoddart (Jackie Stewart) car I believe.

    Shame. Great circuit. great location. Great seafood shacks. (A tough watch when it’s windy and rainy though!!)

      1. Not sure if at all possible but the “other” circuit we have is Assen, although I doubt that F1 can run on it. Looks like a publicity stunt from someone in local politics who needs to score. Been to A1GP using the car and although the event was great getting in or out of Zandvoort is a nightmare.

        A shame as I would like F1 back in my country.

  2. Pros – it’s in Europe, home of F1 and the fan-base.
    Cons – it’s in Europe, lacks the ‘lucrativity’ F1’s owners require.

    I hope it happens.

  3. I think its nice to see the Dutch getting more enthusiastic about F1 again. Spa needs it, it would greatly help the Nürburgring with crowds as well.

    Good that Zandvoort is picking up that sentiment. But apart from holding some minor races there, stage events inviting F1 teams for demo runs and inviting fans to view a couple of F1 races on large screens, I don’t think the track can handle anything close to F1.

    Without completely redoing infrastructure around the track, they would struggle with AbuDhabi levels of visiting fans. I do get the point about the train station being right up (it did work somewhat for Mexico having the metro stop at the track, didn’t it?).
    But really, maybe Zandvoort would do a better job getting Frijns to race there when they get a Formula E race over to the Netherlands (Tesla has a major Eurpean customer centre in NL, would they be interested?). And invite Jos and Max over as special guests.

  4. My enduring memory of the Zandvoort circuit is sand jamming the throttle slides wide open on the Cosworth SCC on my Lotus 31 and hundreds of sand fleas biting us in our tent overnight, so we ended up sleeping in the trailer. Not my favourite place.

    1. Interesting that you mention that as I thought I remembered blown sand reported to be causing problems for drivers so maybe I was not imagining it!

  5. An obvious question is whether the Assen TT circuit could be improved to GP standards. On paper, it has occupancy for 100,000 (50,000+ in grandstands). It’s in a relatively open area close to main roads. The circuit hosts EuroBOSS races so safety factors for cars are known.

    The downsides are money and potential to mess up the venue for motorcycle racing. And the main roads are like those around Silverstone.

    On the point “of trying to convince the crowd to use public transport”, it should be a no brain argument. Packing onto a bus or train with a bunch of noisy and excited fans between town and circuit is a pleasure rather than a pain.

  6. So,

    Laguna Seca
    Zandvoort
    Kyalami
    Noo Joisey (‘New York’)

    I’m sure I’ve forgotten some. One of the other Emirates? Anyway, Bernie certainly believes in keeping existing hosting contracts… nervous.

    1. Laguna Seca will never happen. In New Jersey there’s been too much development at Port Imperial to sustain the original concept. It would have to change.

  7. The Dutch Grand Prix was always my favourite when I was in my teenage years – even if it meant another school year was just around the corner. Let it happen!

  8. Sand I remember, there was always the danger of engine inhalation and pretty immediate demise. Often encroaching on to the track too and coating hot tyres.

  9. Would love to go a Dutch GP at Zandvoort but for the reasons stated in the posts I can’t see that happening any time soon. Its a shame as its a unique venue in a unique setting.

    Off topic, any updates on the comings and goings of the Manor senior management team. The last I heard was a stong no comment from John Booth on the TV the other week. the fact Bob Bell left when he was only a consultant is a non issue compared to the other senior guys.

  10. Joe I have two points to make
    1 Shouldn’t the Dutch wait and see how Verstappen does in the next years and see whether he win can races for example before even thinking about hosting a GP? For all we know Max could be a one season wonder and Dutch people might lose interest in F1.
    2. Would it not be possible and easier to upgrade the circuit at Assen MotoGP venue instead of going to Zandvoort standards if there was to be a Dutch GP?
    3 I still don’t get why there has been so much hype around Max. Kimi and Alonso didn’t have this kind of hype around their rookie season performances. Can you explain it Joe?
    Joe I am going to stick my neck here and say that I think Max will suffer a bit of second season syndrome leading to poorer results and might damage his reputation and himself mentally in F1 before age 20 as I think it could be too much pressure trying to repeat his good rookie season form at so young an age.
    As a rookie Max did not have as much pressure on him but in the second season the pressure will intensify and that is where I think Max could crumble.
    At best I see him being not much than a good fast no 2 driver for a top team .
    How do respond to that Mr Saward? I just don’t think Max has the champion gene most in the paddock thinks he does.

  11. Begs the question, why not Assen? The circuit is currently the same FIA grade 2 as Zandvoort, and no narrower. The complex is already built to host large crowds for the MotoGP and Superbike events. If there aren’t any straights long enough for F1 cars, looks like they could re-extend the main straight. Who owns the land around it these days?

  12. Joe,
    Considering how expensive and abundant races have become, wouldn’t alternating venues every two years help with the financial stress while keeping excitement for the locals alive?
    I realize this was tried in Germany but perhaps that was already passed the threshold of making a difference. Rotating half the GPs every two years would add a bit more variety and unpredictability to the championship, while as mentioned before, help the locals both financially as well as keep them excited.

    The benefits (and cons) can of course be elaborated much further by yourselfp. For the supposed pinnacle of innovation, F1 seems bereft of ideas to solve its problems and sell itself properly. Greed is perhaps the biggest culprit.

    1. If you have two F1 grade tracks my be. If you don’t how do you pay for the track investment with 24 months between races?

    2. The problem with rotating GPs is that the capital required to bring venues up to the right level, plus the maintenance costs necessitate not just yearly races, but additional events during the year just to attempt to break even.

      Asking someone (or some government) to plough millions of Euros into a project they will only see a return on once every two years is a losing proposition.

  13. Zandwoort, Wow. Talk about triggering memories of a great, long-lost (forever) love. But … from thousands of miles away here, it looks to me like we might as well be nostalgically discussing Reims or Rouen and their chances of rebirth.

  14. Hrmmm, frankly, Joe, I’m a bit suprised about this article. I wouldn’t have thought you’d give this ‘wanna-be rumour’ any notice. Obviously, Max generates a lot of interest in F1, but also a whole new generation of young hopefuls turn to karting (a very good thing, if you’d ask me).
    You see, the suggestion of a Dutch GP at Zandvoort pops up every 7 years or so. But the Dutch don’t seem to understand that a GP at Zandvoort will never happen again. The track and infrastructure are outdated, there’s no money and worst of all, there are the so called noise-days for this track. The circuit may produce only a limited number of days with noise above a certain amount of dbs. Having a GP will most likely cost the increasingly successful Historic GP it’s spot on the calender.
    But, all in all, it’s a useless discussion about this wonderful track. No more F1 at Zandvoort, period.
    Building a new track in Holland? Who will pay for that? It’s a densly populated country, so there will be protests all around. Who will agree to that?
    The only (very slim) chance would be to convert the Assen track. People there are used to a bit of noise, the infrastructure is great, but the track needs some work (mainly run off areas). They already have the traditional TT there, this year there was even a MXGP (when they dumped a huge load of sand on the track and paddock) and lots of other bike and car races.
    If all the Dutch Verstappen fans whould flock to Hockenheim, maybe we can have a German GP again? Not that far away, I think.

    1. In most countries a top driver generates interest for a GP, unless like Finland the country is too small economically.

    2. “But the Dutch don’t seem to understand that a GP at Zandvoort will never happen again.”

      No, some stupid politician who wants to score some points doesn’t seem to understand that a GP at Zandvoort will never happen again. All real Dutch racing enthusiast might like the idea, but we all know it will never happen at Zandvoort. So don’t generalize the Dutch like that! 😉

      But I agree, Assen is the only viable option if enough money would become available and I don’t see that happening until Max wins a championship and even then it is nowhere near a sure thing!

      1. You should be even more cynical Maarten. I would think that the Politician is supporting this exactly BECAUSE he knows it will never happen.

        That means he can now promise to get things going, but is confident that he will be able to point to others keeping him from getting to that goal. Making it far easier to make a hollow promise!

        Still. Lets be happy about renewed interest in F1 in the Netherlands, and about anyone supporting it.

  15. I am surprised no one has mentioned the alternative of Assen yet. It works for MotoGP. And even though it is known to be particularly suitable for motorcycles, it is being used for cars as well, and could probably be adapted if necessary.

    Champcar had a “Dutch grand prix” there in 2007 right before they merged with IRL. They also set the lap time record in a Champcar during that event.

      1. That could’ve been said about “bike track” Barber Motorsports Park too. But, check out some vids of IndyCar there, and see why many are glad that didn’t stop them. My take after viewing map of Assen, admittedly sight-unseen: Join two short straights to make a long one, and there’s your GP track.

    1. I reckon Assen is a possibility — if you have millions to spend. The circuit is great for bikes but it is mickey mousy for big engined bikes and cars — even EuroBOSS.

      How are you supposed to make it work for F1 cars and faster than MotoGP?

    2. I’ve been to the ChampCar race in Assen and it was a procession. The circuit needs a lot of changes to make it suitable for fast formula cars to be able to overtake.

  16. Please no! Enough classic tracks have been ruined by F1. Let The Bolt, Tilke and Jonathan E have their ill gotten gains and leave the rest to better times.

  17. went to the last Dutch GP in 1985, loved it, easy to get to from Amsterdam and a walk from the station and down the beach front to the circuit. It was full of Brits as I remember, had a great time and the circuit was phenomenal. Don’t know what the capacity was back in those days, but yes, if 80K+ people turned up on race day via train it would be pretty tough going not to mention the tsunami at the end of the race as everyone departed. I think we drove to Haarlem and got a train from there on race day. Be a great circuit for a GP but definitely need a few corners changing plus, back then, there weren’t many grandstands, we watched it from atop a sand dune at the end of Tarzan. Also Stefan Bellofs last race before his accident at spa the week after. Assen would be no good IMO, it isn’t wide enough for GP cars although it’s a great circuit in its own right.

    Seem to have made a habit of seeing last GPs at classic tracks as the year after went to ‘European’ GP at brands hatch which was equally memorable, career ending shunt for Jaques Lafitte which delayed the race by about 1hr 30m, sweltering in 30 degree heat. Amazing to see two starts from opposite paddock bend (another hill! on cooper straight) Senna swooping down into first place after starting 4th I think. Top memories.

  18. Joe: “Having a top F1 driver always makes it easier for promoters to raise money.”

    No. It may make people act stupidly.

  19. It’s weird, innit? Europeans going to Assen for a Dutch GP? The ferry companies would make a fortune.

    If the organisers set up a cracking weekend and extracted silly money from attendees, they’d have an event. Thousands would attend. All you have to do is sell beer.

    And the organisers would still make a loss because Bernie wants a lot of money.

  20. Fond memories of standing on a sand dune as a small boy in ’83 waiting for Prost & Piquet to come round …. hang on, where are they? How come Arnoux’s leading? What the hell happened? The days before big screens, smartphones and even tannoy announcements (unless you spoke Dutch) when you had to wait till Autosport came out the following Thursday to find out what had happened, even (or especially) if you were there! Also remember cheering on Derek Warwick to fourth place in his Toleman! In those days – before Nige got his act together – we thought he was going to be the next big thing as regards British drivers

  21. Max is from the south of the Netherland, where his main fan base is. The following distances are approximations but you get the idea:
    Maastricht – Spa 75 kilometers
    Maastricht – Nurburgring 165 kilometers
    Maastricht – Zandvoort 235 kilometers

    Great idea, I wish them best of luck getting the planning approval and finances. It will be great to see a pack of F1 cars negotiate the Tarzan, Scheivlak and those other fantastic corners and again make racing history.

    Realistically,I think Max will retire as a multiple world champion before there is a F1 race on Zandvoort.

    1. Actually I’d say he is from the North of Belgium. Born in Hasselt, grew up in Maaseik and lives in Bree BUT… he drives with a Dutch license.

      I don’t have a problem with the Dutch claiming him, I see him as much Dutch as Belgian. It is a bit wrong to say he is from South of the Netherlands tho.

      It be nice if the Dutch can capitalize on him with a track. It will be hard for Zandvoort with lots of challenges to make it F1 ready. As long as it doesn’t hurt Silverstone and Spa I’d love to see it.

        1. Nope not at all, reason why I said he is as much Dutch as Belgian. His mother is Belgian and his Dad is from the Netherlands. Didn’t mention it since I thought that was more common knowledge than where he grew up.

          In my view: where you grow up, go to school (As in where you develop in your formative years) has more effect on you than where your parents come from.

          That being said… It wasn’t my point and I have no problems that he chose to drive with the Dutch nationality. 🙂

            1. Nor would I say otherwise. I was just thinking in a rational way when I said him being as much Belgian as Dutch.

              But the point was more about him: not being from the South of the Netherlands. I can see that the mention of the Dutch claiming him could have been perceived as something else. What I meant with it was the part where they claim he comes from the Netherlands (happens enough in the media and on other comment sections).

              Just trying to correct that information and explaining myself.
              Guess I should work on conveying my message more clearly in English. 🙂

  22. I doubt any additional European track would be viable until the financial structure of F1 is changed fundamentally. Either that or it (the race or the track) would need a very wealthy sponsor and as sovereign wealth funds are not much in evidence as sponsors in Europe, that leaves eccentric billionaires or mega corporations.
    Local governments are stretched for funds and only dictatorships can use the country’s exchequer to play with.
    A change of F1 financial structure could allow circuits to make a profit on the GP instead of it being a major loss leader.

  23. Yes, why not. We could do to Assen what was done to the Oesterichring and Hockenheim so that we could run a relative handful of races there before F1 gets bored and/or Bernie gets a better payday. Spiffing idea.

  24. Joe, I see Motorsport Vision (owners of Brands Hatch and other circuits) have just bought Laon airfield, north east of Paris and are going to turn it into a motorsports facility…

    ..couldn’t help thinking possible new home for the French GP….much better location that Magny Cours, and competition for any Dutch resurgence in a world where fewer European GPs seems more likely…

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