Notebook from Chimay

IMG_0051Fans with long memories will remember the town of Chimay for something other than its beer, although if you are into motorcycle racing it may have become a blip on your radar. However, 90 years ago Chimay began holding races on a fast road course, not very different in character to Spa, except that it lacked the hills. There were long sweeping curves, houses, forests and one fairly exciting moment when the cars went between a church and a pillbox at top speed, with n run-off on either side. Being Spa’s poor cousin it was always in the shadow at international level but, nonetheless, it hosted its own Formula 1 races (non-championship, of course), with the race usually being known as the Grand Prix des Frontieres. The list of winners includes Maurice Trintignant, who won twice for Bugatti in the 1930s and again in 1953 in a Simca Gordini and Prince Bira, who won in a Maserati in 1947. By the 1960s it had become an event for Formula Junior (and then Formula 3) and in its final years between 1970 and 1972 it was won three times by David Purley. It lost its international licence after that but hosted local touring car races and motorcycle events. It was always a track fraught with danger and as recently as 2014 three riders were killed in the same weekend in a race with modern racing bikes. I ended up there late on Monday morning on the way home from Spa, having given a colleague a ride to the station in Liege (a fabulous piece of architecture, by the way) and then made the decision to drive along the River Meuse to such oddly-named places as Troque and Chokier, to the fortress cities of Huy and Namur and then (by way of Profondeville and Hun (yes, really) to the charming riverside town of Dinant. I was originally planning to follow the river as far as Charleville-Mézières, but it became clear that I would not be home before midnight if I did that after a morning spent grumbling about dawdling Dutch caravans and tatty Bulgarian trucks and so I high-tailed it to the west and ended up stopping for a breather in Chimay, before racing across the French plains to Laon, Soissons and the forest of Retz to Paris. The French holidays are now over and so I took a loop around the city to avoid getting caught in the inevitable traffic of grumpy Frenchmen still thinking about their joyous days in St Trop.

All of this gave me plenty of time to mull over the Spa weekend. There has been a lot of comment about the adventures of Max Verstappen and the Ferraris in the race and it seems that a lot of people assume that because they have a TV and a rewind button they are, therefore, qualified to have an opinion to challenge the decisions of race officials, who have access to far more information and data than the average fan can imagine. It should also be pointed out that the stewards last weekend were Danny Sullivan and Felipe Giaffone, both former top-line racing drivers, plus Dr Gerd Ennser, the chief steward of the DTM for the last 10 years and a full-time professional judge in his native Bavaria when he is not going racing. If they had felt that anyone was driving beyond acceptable boundaries, then they would have reacted. They did not. One can say that Verstappen was certainly pushing the limits of what is acceptable, but that’s racing, isn’t it? Loads of F1 fans spend their time complaining that’s there is not enough racing and when they get it, they complain that it is too dangerous. Anyone who has watched a GP2 race recently will tell you that F1 drivers are positively staid compared to the youngsters who are desperate to impress.

What is interesting about Ferrari, and particularly Sebastian Vettel, is that he seems to have developed a rather whiny attitude to other drivers when they dare to duff him up, which I don’t remember him having in his younger days. It seems that he is constantly complaining about people getting in his way. I have put this down to an underlying sense of frustration at the state of his career. He went to Ferrari with high hopes at the start of 2015 and I fear he is beginning to realise that it was probably not the right thing to do, particularly in the wake of the departure of James Allison, the man who was putting together the team that Ferrari requires to get to the top. Ask anyone (not in a red shirt) how they think Ferrari will do in the next few years and it is hard to find anyone who sees them moving forwards. Ferrari fans may not like that and think that this somehow makes me biased, but I am simply reporting what I see and hear. Maybe everyone is wrong and Ferrari will zoom to a string of titles in the years ahead, but I see no signs of that happening.

The really good thing about Formula 1 at the moment is that after a period of relative stability of the top driver front, we are now seeing a whole new generation muscling their way in with Max Verstappen, Kevin Magnussen, Pascal Wehrlein, Esteban Ocon and others looking like that they will start to kick over the status quo. Given that some of the older F1 drivers have had careers lasting more than 15 years, that is not a bad thing for the sport. And, for the Belgians, there is much excitement as Stoffel Vandoorne will soon be in a McLaren full-time. As much as I like and respect Jenson, there comes to time when racing teams look to the future rather than the past and I would be amazed if they kept JB and let Stoffel wander off elsewhere. I sense that the team is probably delaying announcements in order to keep JB keen and motivated because a driver who knows he is departing a team will inevitably lose pace, even if it is only subconsciously. The interesting thing about the new generation of drivers is that they may end up having an impact on the shape of the F1 calendar in the future. When the German GP attracts about 10,000 Dutch and the Belgian GP pulls in at least 50,000 of them, there is a clear case that a Dutch GP is probably possible, if a venue can be found. Upgrading Zandvoort would be a big job, but the property developers who own it might seen the logic in that because there is plenty that could be developed at the site. Traffic access will always be a problem but when there is a train that takes 35 minutes from Amsterdam Centraal and it is a short walk from the station to the circuit, one can see that this could be a very environmentally-friendly event, with few or no cars (a la Monaco). There are two parallel tracks all the way to Haarlem and so the Dutch could easily run the same kind of service that one sees at Monaco or with the trams at Albert Park, shifting crowds in and out with ease. There are other options, but I sense that Zandvoort is the one that would work best. You never know, with all the enthusiasm about Verstappen, there are always possibilities that other projects might emerge, not least a place like the Eurocircuit rallycross facility in Valkenswaard, which is hidden away in a forest, deep in Verstappen country, close to the Belgian border.

The interesting thing at the moment is that the Formula One group has a slight problem with its calendar choices at the moment because F1’s global expansion has meant that Formula One is struggling to meet its contractual obligations for the right balance of races. There is, would you believe, a clause in the various contracts that says that, unless the teams agree otherwise (and when did they ever agree on anything?) Formula One must present a calendar that has at least half the races in Europe and the United States.

This year’s 21-race calendar features 11 European/US events (Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Germany, Great Britain, Hungary, Italy, Monaco, Russia, Spain, and the United States) and 10 non-European events (Abu Dhabi, Australia, Bahrain, Brazil, Canada, China, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico and Singapore). This is fine.

But when you look at the races that are really struggling you see Austin, Germany, Italy and Brazil all in difficulties – and Ecclestone cannot afford to lose three European/US races, because the calendar would be well out of kilter, with the requirements. This is why there is so much talk of a mythical race in Las Vegas and work going on in California. The problem is that F1’s fees are too high for the US market, which is why previous negotiations have failed. This also explains the tenuous argument that Baku is in Europe. It’s not, but the teams have allowed Ecclestone to get away with that one, because the new race pays lots of money into the kitty.

Austin has a 10 year contract to host the race, which began in 2012, so it is now reaching its halfway point, but it is clear that funding is a problem. Germany is an even bigger problem because while Hockenheim is happy to fund a race every two years, the Nurburgring seems to be out of the F1 game for the time-being. This is a shame, of course, because it’s a great facility and within easy reach of the Netherlands. However, it is a mess and no politician wants to give any public money. Running it without public money would be a huge challenge.

A deal will be struck with Italy and ought to be announced in the next few days, but it has not been easy.

Brazil has a contract until 2020, but the promoter needs to find money to fund the event because of economic upheavals in recent times. However, with Formula One contracts, the money must be paid whether there is a race or not, so usually promoters go on hosting races because they get at least something back for the money they spend.

If an alternative race cannot be found in the US and Germany drops out in 2017, the balance required will be upset and the teams will have to agree to accept nine events in Europe/US and 10 elsewhere.

With all these struggles, Ecclestone is looking around for alternatives. No-one in Germany capable of paying the fees seems to be interested in an F1 race. The word is that Ecclestone may solve the problem by taking over the promotion of Hockenheim and getting all the revenues available, leaving Hockenheim to fund its own upkeep. That might work. There is nothing serious in Denmark or Sweden and no obvious interest nor money in the east of Europe. Turkey might like to make a comeback, but its status as a European nation is at best dubious (along the same lines as Azerbaijan) and the race was never a success. There is no real reason for F1 to go to Portugal and no money to fund a race. There are legal and environmental problems with Switzerland. The one place other than Germany where logically there should be an F1 race is France, which ought to be more interested in F1 given the return of Renault. On the driver front there is still Romain Grosjean, but Jules Bianchi is gone, Jean-Eric Vergne has been wasted by Red Bull and Charles Pic has disappeared. There is Esteban Ocon, who could excite the French fans, and Pierre Gasly might get a ride with Toro Rosso, but Norman Nato and Arthur Pic need to do more to progress from GP2. The problem remains, who – if anyone – is going to pay for it?

151 thoughts on “Notebook from Chimay

      1. Thank god for that! Your writing is just fine, and I to hate the degradation of journalism into the “sound byte mentality”.

      2. Joe, I see my earlier reply has been moderated out. Pity.

        I think my first comment suggesting more paragraph breaks is quite valid. I write for a living too. If I submitted 12 or14 sentence run-on paragraphs my editors (any editors) would reject as grammatically incorrect and unnecessarily difficult for readers.

        They’d demand proper paragraph structure for that reason and me saying “I don’t have a sound bytes mentality” would be seen as utterly illogical excuse. Sound bytes are audio and paragraphs are for print for precisely for the reason I stated. Reader ease.

        A headline is akin to a sound byte, not the body of any piece.

        You may say, and your readers essentially say, it is your blog and you can do as you like. But why? Hitting the paragraph key it a simple matter.

        1. Anthony – give it a rest. If you don’t like it, don’t read it. If you’re such a hot writer, go start your own F1 blog.

    1. Joe, you could put the blog up in wingdings and I would happily put into Word to translate. I think most of us are/should be just grateful you put up such great content free of charge, therefore thank you.

  1. Any indication of what would happen if we had a 9/10 split in favour of the rest of the world? Would the teams just have to suck it up?

    1. They don’t have to object to the contractual clause but they might because if you give Mr E an inch he will drive a coach and horses through it. And they also might not agree between themselves.

      1. The Dutch are very commercial and generally disinclined to contribute to such wonderful charity organisations as Ecclestone and CVC.

  2. I agree the fans just have a TV and a rewind button, But when the most experienced driver on the block like Kimi says “…something isn’t right”. There is a cause for that rewind button.

      1. Indeed…..it must be extremely galling for some of the more senior F1 drivers
        to see spirited young drivers who are almost exactly as audacious and
        skillful as they themselves were in their younger days. And then….there is Herr Vettel. Hmmmmmmm…….he’s sounding remarkably like my old granny with her lumbago. You feel quite sorry for him until he starts to whine. And boy does he know how to whine.

        At Red Bull he had the best aerodynamisist in the business and what was at the time the best engine/transmission. Ferrari are in the wilderness and Herr
        Vettel has been watching the chickens coming home to roost in their thousands. Time to keep very quiet I should say and do some very serious thinking about your future………

      2. The stewards must have not seen Verstappen all four wheels of the white line/off track trying to gain his lost position back.
        Also nobody from the FIA had followed him saying that “the FGERRARI’s ruined my race in the first corner. then I will not let them past. i’d prefer to run them off the track instead”.
        Hope you not getting/feeling Antagonised

        1. I don’t feel antagonised, so you have failed in this respect. If you want to make silly remarks like this one, that’s fine but all it does is highlight how little you know about the technology in Race Control. Why not find an article in the subject and then come back, armed with knowledge

  3. How does MotoGP make money? I don’t follow it closely – though if I find it when hopping through the channels I will watch – but you never hear of a) teams on the verge of collapse and b) tracks struggling to find the funds. They also have huge crowds.

      1. But does MotoGP use the same model as F1? Do they do anything different to F1 which F1 could adopt? Have you ever done an investigation into other top flight motorsports funding in a back issue of GP+?

  4. Verstappen’s biggest mistake was his bad start, especially because he had softer tires then everyone around him.

    The turn 1 incident was a racing incident, inadvertently caused by Vettel. A correct decision by the stewards to not investigate.

    The block on RAI is something I have not seen before. Verstappen waits for RAI to move and then blocks him, its a bold move thats just within the rules. Although it is debatable if this is what the makers of the rules had in mind when they wrote the rules down.

    This is racing. It is dangerous, though cars have brakes and nobody forces these men to step in their cars on Sunday. You do not like it, please go to youtube and watch some Trulli trains.

    We not only have to give credit to Verstappen to bring huge crowds to the track and provide spice to races. He also is the first person to make the Iceman lose his cool and actually made him speak a few sentences in one go.

    1. I was thinking the same, Vettel did not know Verstappen was on the inside. He could not have seen him. And Verstappen went for a gap on the inside. Unfortunately it didn’t work out.

      The reason Verstappen is able to block Raikkonen, is because VES knows RAI will avoid a collision. Had RAI kept his position and let the cars collide/crash, VES would have known RAI doesn’t move over.

      Also I think there is more to the whining of both Ferrari drivers. I think there is a lot of pressure being put on them. And this is the way the drivers are trying to show they are not at fault for the “bad” results.

  5. “No-one in Germany capable of paying the fees seems to be interested in an F1 race.” Is anyone?

    Joe, is there a race that manages to finance itself without public funds and ends up in the black at the end of the year?

      1. I’m getting old and cynical no question but F1 is it’s own worst enemy lately and demanding insane hosting fees is one of the problems.

        How can it possibly cost $40-50m to host a 3-day event at a permanent circuit? I have an economics degree yet I can’t get my head around it. At least 60-70% of that must be pure profit. I’ll gladly be proven wrong but I don’t see how it can cost more than $10-15m – particularly the European races.

        Melbourne is a good example. The constant squeeze for more money and debate around the city about why we’re spending so much for a race that most people have forgotten about by the following Tuesday. As the global audience shrinks ever smaller the line about being a good way to promote the city no longer holds water. It’s more like an inconvenient waste of money.

        When I look at F1 now I see lots of needless meddling for self-interest (Bernie & CVC!!) and almost nothing done purely for the good of the sport and it’s fans. When I read that interest in F1 is dropping off I now think good riddance. Serves them right. I’m just one (former diehard) fan but where I used to eagerly wake up in the middle of the night and follow every minute of every race I now watch only when it’s convenient and I have nothing better to do and even then usually just the extended highlights.

    1. Conclusion. F1 has priced itself out of the market or is in the process of doing so and has an inflated view of it’s own importance and value. Of course our trusty JS has been banging on about this for many a moon, are there any golden eggs left because the goose seems to be getting pretty tired.

  6. Wouldn’t you think that an across the board rate decrease of, say, 20%, to hold a GP would ensure a more stable list of tracks? Surely the money men have milked the cash cow long enough that they could ease up a bit. No? Didn’t think so. Do you think, if ownership of F1 does change, there will be a bit more of a long view taken, Joe?

    I love reading about your meanderings home. Reminds me a bit of DSJ’s Continental Notes.

    Cheers

    Barry

  7. I wonder if in these days of Europe without borders they could build a track straddling Germany & the Netherlands or Germany France and Luxembourg I’m guessing there is a fair amount of wasteland on those bordera somewhere? (i’m excluding Belgium as we don’t want to loose Spa even if it is close to the tripple border point of Ger Bel NL)

    That way they all get a home race and also share the costs.

    With regards to the Europe and USA rule – i wonder if that might in the future get stretched to include Montreal and possibly Mexico City?

    1. Hm, I think that if we would have clarity that the German GP WILL take place, and where by now, many more Dutch would drive over. From the south it’s still doable in about 3-4 hours. What hurt it most was the rumours of things not being even sure for this year, making many hesitant to buy tickets up front.

      I think that we could have easily double the numbers of this year there if they would confirm doing the German GP there in 2017.
      This year Hockenheim really did its best with the prices of everything else (and even the tickets were not too bad) to not make people feel ripped off, coffee, drinks, beer, everything was more or less the price you would pay in a small town street festival, far from a big city event level and probably below normal prices in Munchen, London or Paris!

      1. The entirety of F1 events could really benefit from a fresh approach to ticket selling. The music concert business has really taken off in recent years and is dominated by Live Nation. These guys are pretty expert at scheduling concerts, venues and when to put tickets on sale. With a premium priced event such as an F1 race weekend that also is dependent on selling to the tens, or even hundreds, of thousands it is imperative to get dates confirmed and tickets on sale as early as possible. The comparison is with a major band playing stadiums (when they tend to go on sale up to 12 months in advance) rather than arenas when they can sell 3-6 months before.

        There is no doubt that F1 shoots itself in the foot a bit by announcing the calendar in December. For example, right now some of the airlines out of the Gulf are offering very attractive business class fares to Australia which would make Melbourne far more affordable and comfortable than when you try to book later in the day. People are not going to buy these though when there is no certainty as to which weekend the race will be held on.

        That is only one example – there are numerous travel agents/tour operators who offer packages to the different F1 events. If F1 could get its act together and announce the schedule now for all of next year that would give them much more time to promote and sell the packages they create. Also F1 does compete against other forms of entertainment and if someone’s favourite band announces now that they will be playing on a June date that later turns out to be the date of the xyz Grand Prix then, with ticket already bought and travel arrangements made for the concert the F1 event misses out.

        In a nutshell F1 would really help the circuits raise the revenue they need to pay the promoter’s fee if they gave them solid dates 4 months earlier.

        1. Here in the States NASCAR, IndyCar and Supercross have already announced their 2017 dates. Baseball 2017 schedule is expected to come out in September. When even a dysfunctional organization such as IndyCar has its act together to announce next year’s dates, you know it’s a good idea.

          But F1’s powers-that-be have little interest in growing the sport.

  8. As you know Joe, the reason the French GP continued for so long was due to Mitterrand’s support. These days there appears to be no support for a race at government level, hardly surprising when one considers the state of French public finances. If a country like the UK, where most of the teams are based and the fans probably the most enthusiastic and knowledgable in the world, continues to struggle to make its own GP work I don’t hold out too much hope for a return of the French GP in the near future.

  9. Yeah, you are right about Verstappen pushing it, but if he wasn’t he wouldn’t have a place in F1 anyway. My 2 cents on that.

    But you made me smile: I have never seen any connection between F1 and Valkenswaard. I doubt they have room enough for an F1-like track and all facilities, but certainly an interesting option to explore. Alas, going to and from the track might proof even more challenging than Zandvoort.

    Thanks for another great read. Cheers.

  10. “Traffic access will always be a problem but when there is a train that takes 35 minutes from Amsterdam Centraal and it is >>>>annoys<<<< walk from the station to the circuit,…" Annoys????

      1. I wondered if you were dictating it Joe using something like Siri and you meant to say “a nice walk” but for some reason said it in something approaching a Brummie accent. Hence it transcribed it as “annoys walk”. It was all I could think of.

  11. Bring on the slab of grey, I enjoy reading your blog Joe because of this. It is not trying to be pretty, just factual and informative.

  12. They had some sort of a gas explosion in Chimay the other day, hopefully not at the brewery!

    I was there for a couple of historic race meetings a few years ago. They were great fun & well-supported but various things conspired to prevent them carrying on.

    1. Hah! That’s where I heard ‘Chimay’. NPR reported the gas explosion, mainly because it wasn’t terror-related. I might have been the only listener who perked up his ears hearing ‘Chimay’ and knowing another frame of reference 🙂
      Cheers
      Barry

  13. Vettel has always been ‘whiney’, I think it’s whyb he doesn’t have a huge amount of fans (a la Schumacher). It was less noticeable before because his career had an upward trajectory in the main and he was on a winning streak but whenever things didn’t go his way he quickly took on a sulky demeanour.

    1. You beat me to it!! I was thinking the same. He’s very charming and funny when the sun is shining and everything is working out for him but when the clouds come in and it’s a battle just to see who made the podium he’s not so friendly. He was always quite to complain though. Even in Red Bull days when the thought he wasn’t getting it all his own ways the bleating came out.

      He could do with a few sessions at the J Button School of Keepingyerchinup

  14. “What is interesting about……………..Sebastian Vettel, is that he seems to have developed a rather whiny attitude to other drivers when they dare to duff him up,”

    If my memory serves me correctly, this was happening at Red Bull as well, in particular during his last year there in which he was, well there’s no other way of putting it, poor. So in general, if he’s having a poor year and other cars just don’t get out of his way, he whinges.

    Two things – (1) it’s not a good look, and makes him appear petty, and (2) we don’t have to listen to it, which I don’t, because in particular it’s annoying. For him it makes him appear childish. And in any event, his reputation just keeps on sliding, the more and more he does it.

    You would think a four times world champion would know better, and the respect of other people/drivers does not have to be given just because he is a four times world champion, it has to be earned. The true mark of a champion is not how they win, but how they lose. Witness Lewis Hamilton’s behaviour, even when his team cocks it up for him: “We win and lose as a team.”

    Someone needs to have a word in his shell, like

    1. “we win a lose as a team” have you started watching FI just when he happens to just say that? looks like you don’t remember him throwing his engineer (Dave Ryan) under the bus to save his skin.

            1. which means that if somebody told you to jump off from a cliff you will be absolved from any blame by JOE for jumping off.

            2. The even more depressing thing about that whole incident is that Lewis actually did the correct thing on track. Trulli F’d up and went off track and Lewis had no choice but to pass under the safety car. He took the place perfectly legally. It was all so unnecessary.

    2. Really ? In reality its the other way around, Vettel is a team player and Hamilton publicly throws his team under the bus and blackmails them whenever he can, Monaco, Spa … there are plenty of examples of this. Maybe some should have a word with Hamilton too, eh ? Or do you really think Hamilton is a more mature person than Vettel ???

      And where did Vettel whinge during the race in Spa ? I didnt hear it.

  15. Joe,

    Why do you not consider the Assen GP circuit as a Dutch option? The Moto GP visits every year with few logistical problems (100000 spectators and 60000 seats!)… OK it does not have the character of the Zandvoort circuit… but Valkenswaard is not a realistic option.

    1. I know it is not an immediate option, as I wrote, but there could be many projects. Assen is a motorcycle track, with the track banked in places for banks and run-offs that would need work

      1. Assen would be the most realistic option. I went to Zandvoort for the Verstappen demo. The walk from the station takes about 10-15 min. It is doable to get all 100.000 visitors out of Zandvoort, but the infrastructure needs to be improved. The TT circuit is near the highway, so cars would be able to leave relatively fast. Add more means of public transport and Assen would be a great venue for a F1 race. (Also it is less than an hours drive away)

  16. Max is clearly giving F1 a new shine, makes a few old stars look boring. Fans love him, Mr E must love him too; first time this coincidence happens!

  17. The observations about the tracks and fees have been discussed in the past. Is there any concerns or idea what would be the tipping point to reduce the rates?

    For example, let’s say Bernie can only get 18 races on the schedule because that is the only number that will pay for the races? Does the question beg – we need lower the fees?

  18. I believe anyone who watches the race is “qualified to have an opinion”. Many of them may be based on misinformation, misunderstanding, or just plain wrong. But whether you like it or not, opinions are like noses!

    To think that the only views which are valid are those of the stewards and their vast amounts of additional information is somewhat patronising… They may be the only ones that count when it comes to adjudication, but does that mean that, as an armchair fan for most of my life who hasn’t missed a GP on telly in 20 years, I am not “qualified” to have a viewpoint? Isn’t the whole fun of watching sport to enjoy what happens and then have a view on it afterwards?

    Please do not take the above as my reacting angrily in any way… I am merely disagreeing with (and frankly puzzled by) your wording. You want to reach out to fans by writing this blog but you don’t want them to have opinions? That makes no sense.

    As per my message in the other thread, what I would actually like to read here is a more detailed explanation of why you don’t think Verstappen deserved a penalty. So far the reasons are “it was hard but fair” and “stewards are always right”. Anything else? Please enlighten me! That is not sarcastic, it is a genuine request… I would like more of a counter-argument. Help me understand why it was not a dangerous move!

    1. I agree, everyone can have an opinion. The difference is that the opinion of the stewards makes a difference.

      1. Indeed. But by that logic 80% of your blog should not exist, maybe more. It is entertaining to share opinions, and some times educational. It would be a poorer world if only those totally qualified could opine.

        As for the stewards and FIA officials, whatever data they have they are to blame for things like cars in the middle of the road without the race being stopped and drivers getting away with microlifts under yellow flags. They are not infallible.

        1. Ok, comments like this really help to convince me to keep the blog going. Maybe I’ll just give you 20 percent of what you get now.

          1. There is no need to be like that. The blog is brilliant, but one of the reasons is that it is based on opinion rather than dry facts.

            Your premise seems to be that the officials are close to infallible, and we should not question them. If that were the case we would not have inconsistency, and we would not of had the recent situation where Rosberg’s microlift was OK one minute then upgraded to red flag status going forward the next.

            1. No need to be like what? I just find it rather tiresome that the same names keep coming up, trying to stir up trouble.

              1. On this occasion, there appears to be no attempt at stirring trouble. The readership of this blog are (generally) an intelligent bunch and push for answers and further understanding. It is possible to accept this mode of questioning as a compliment rather than any disparaging admonishment.

                Do bear in mind, this particular article expresses an opinion on ‘armchair fans’ – something I suspect would accurately describe a significant proportion of readers to this blog. If someone expresses an opinion about you, would you not feel you are at least obliged the right of reply?

              2. You must be confusing me with somebody else, as I rarely post.

                When I said ‘no need to be like that’ I meant there is no need to threaten to close the blog because I pointed out that is is mostly based on opinion, yours included, and so you have to take the good with the bad. You have to accept that even your opinion, and that of FIA official, isn’t full proof.

                Mark Hughes is another of the tiny group of Journos that you are in that have almost universal respect. He disagrees utterly with your assessment of what Verstappen did, and why the powers that be did nothing about.

                Under your premise, that should not happen. All the quality journalists should share the same opinion, and if mere fans disagree with with one then they are wrong, or at the very least don’t have all the facts to hand, which make the FIA officials even less fallible.

                So what is actually happening is that your disagree with Mark, Coulthard, Brundle, and lots of fans. Perhaps others. This in no way invalidates your opinion, of course, but it should at least give you pause when invalidating the opinion of your readership.

                I am actually surprised you have such faith in these officials. We fans see certain things, the max loiter being the latest, that makes us wonder what they are doing. What about thinking tractors on track is fine, micro-lifts are fine, cars doing endless laps in the wet behind a safety car, and then going straight to inters is fine.

                You see these people up close far more than we do, you should be the fiercest critic,

              3. good one that, no surprise there, if what you write doesn’t agree with my opinion, or it is not what I would like to hear/read it means you would be stirring trouble.

      2. Yeah. I said that…

        I’m disappointed in your response, Joe. I posted on here as I thought you encouraged reasoned discussion and debate, and wanted to help fans further their own knowledge. Clearly I was wrong.

        1. Everything I write is reasoned. If you don’t wish to accept it, then that’s your choice. I always write what I think. If you disagree then it’s fine, but you’re not about to convince me otherwise.

          1. But I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. What would be the point? I fully accept, and fully respect, your difference of opinion. More than that… I’m interested in it! Which is why I keep posting on here.

            I am asking you why you think what you think. It may be reasoned, but care to share the reason?

            On the other thread you just wrote, “because it’s not warranted”. Why is it not warranted?! I’m a lowly armchair fan… So teach me! Share your superior knowledge. It’s why we are all here in this virtual place, after all.

            1. +1 – eloquently articulated. It is disappointing that the reasoning was not explained (or at least alluded to if explained in GP+).

      3. I am reminded of something the late U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan once said: “Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.”

      4. Hi Joe/Rob,
        I’d second ‘bigrobmac’ on that, (terrible name mate, I blame your parents) Between me and my black Labrador named Tickles we think MV was within the rules and frankly what else counts in F1 in all aspects of racing. However, I read this blog because you give more insight/knowledge than I have so it would be great to hear your thoughts in more detail.

        1. I don’t want to overstate the obvious, but this is a free (non-paying) blog.

          If you want more info, you could, as I do, subscribe to Grand Prix Plus.

          1. I subscribe to GP+. I have read it. There is no analysis about this subject. Only quotes from world champions saying Max’s behaviour was not correct…

    2. I am not an F1 driver, but scanning the post race reviews, it would seem hard to find a driver or ex-driver who doesn’t think Max is sooner or later going to come a cropper. Worse, he might take drivers, marshals or even spectators out. As people who are there or have been there on the track driving at high speed, I respect and accept their opinions. Yes, even if that is different to a couple of stewards.
      Secondly, F1 is a massive contradiction at the moment. Drivers are not allowed to drive in the wet because its do dangerous, but it’s ok to have an over-enthusiastic, under-experienced kid weaving all over the place like he hasn’t left his go-kart at home.

    3. I watched on Channel 4 as I am sure many other did. DC was instantly very critical saying a late move. He should certainly know with his experience and didn’t need data to back it up.

      Why didn’t Verstappen cover the move the way all other F1 drivers seem to i.e. move to the right to cover the inside line. If the driver behind has more speed then so be it.

      It was a dangerous move on the borderline of rules interpretation. Verstappen is going to have big accident at some point if he keeps up his type Schumacher defences.

    4. During the race, I saw many drivers on the Kemmel Straight “breaking the tow” by moving two, three or even four times before the braking zone, without generating any adverse comment.

      In passing, I’d also point out a number of recent “overly optimistic” late lunges by an unrepentant Kimi that have ended badly.

      During the incident in question, Max had not made his “one permitted” move when Kimi made his attempt, so (a) Max made his permitted one move, and (b) Kimi should have expected it.

      My own opinion, such as it is, is that the art of racing is to anticipate your opponent: the other drivers all know (or should, by now) that Max will make a late move to cover off an attempt to pass. This, therefore, is their opportunity to sell the dummy – a tactic practised by the past greats, but rarely seen nowadays.

      One the other hand, the cynic in me suspects that, with the huge number of Dutch and Belgian Max fans at the circuit, the stewards realised that any attempt to censure him would result in Race Control being stomped flat…

  19. I found it amusing that at the start of the UK Channel 4 coverage DC and MW showed us the sign boards along the pit wall which were markers for releasing or not, the driver from your pit.
    These were totally ignored later in the race and as a result we had an almost collision followed by a race along the pit lane which I had though strictly forbidden as only the outer “fast” lane may be used for driving along the pit lane there was undoubtedly a “dangerous release” but no mention was made of any penalty.
    Ok they only actually touched once, but with open wheels one car could easily have been thrown upwards as two wheels made contact.
    Why no penalty?

  20. Surprised to see Kevin Magnussen on your list of young chargers, I was beginning to think his career is over already, again.

  21. Joe, were there rumblings amongst the paddock with regards to K-Mag’s accident? On C4, there was conjecture that it might have been related to the seemingly excessive prescribed tyre pressures.

    The FIA wants to keep pushing for the halo, yet the clear and present danger repeatedly seems to come from the desire to have tyres that degrade. Pirelli are coming up with a new specification, but they seem to be flogging a dead horse.

    Having safe tyres and mandating 2-stops per race would seem a far less costly / complicated way to achieve a good show for the fans. Having the cars operate without their ICE while in the pit lane, as originally proposed, might also add a little spice if cars were forced to lose track position for a while.

  22. What strikes me is that irrespective of how talented Max V is, there is the latent arrogance of Senna & Schumacher in his racing personality. Yes i’m happy to accept that the Stewards saw no wrong or any misjudgement, but that could also be flagged over various very questionable moves by Senna & Schumacher in past times. And we know that from time to time, things ended with turmoil if they didn’t get their way. I feel very strongly that Max will be involved in some very large accident not far in the future, and people will trace the cause back to allowing him to stretch rules just a little too far. I hope it doesn’t happen but the evidence is that it is more likely to happen than not.
    And i find it a bit surprising that Vettel is getting the bad marks, when on the tv he came across as being reasonable, and admitted that if he’d known VES was there then he would have not moved over as much as he did. He didn’t come over as whiney, just matter of fact. Sure he must be disappointed with Ferrari, but having said that, they are in the top3, so it isn’t as if he’s in a Sauber!
    If McLaren retire JB that would be a shame, as he is keeping up with Ferdy, and there have been plenty of WCD who were 38,39 or more….these days the cars are easier to drive, so experience should count for more…..
    As to the Circuits situation. Well, it is absurd to have any sport where it is impossible for those providing the arena for the participants, to make any money from an event, and given time it will end in tears as Bernie finds that there become fewer places for him to run his circus…..i know there are quite a few provinces in Russia, but he can’t run a whole WCD in one country.!

    1. Well said Damian. Since this youngster burst onto the scene, for one reason or another, many have been hailing him as the realization of the second coming. He has shown himself to be anything but… Instead, he revealed himself to be an arrogant, self-centred; reckless racer and a danger to himself as well as to others around him. In just about every race he has been intensifying the degree of his recklessness to compoundingly ascending levels.

      Some members of the travelling F1 brotherhood who normally are very objective professionals seem to have abandoned their senses, all modes of objectivity and have become members of Max V’s Amen corner. In the process many of these members of the fraternity on whom we have always been able to depend on for quality journalism; reasoned assessments and objective reportages seem to have gotten caught up in the hype and in some cases have become apologists for Max V’s bad behaviour. Hence, they do not hesitate to lash out and condemned anyone who have the temerity to criticize Max V.

      On Sunday @ Spa, Max V committed one of the most dangerous acts of racing since the days of Michael Schumacher. Select anyone from this montage of the Lowlights of Schumacher’s Chequered History
      [link removed]

      In a few years Max V will successfully emulate every block of the Lowlights of Michael’s debased History and will definitely add a few of his own. Many seem to have become so fascinated with Max V to the extent that they have become oblivious to all else. Welcome to Max V World

    2. There is an interesting article on the rules of overtaking/defending currently in the fanatical internet ether. it described how Indycar tackle the rules for what they call blocking versus defending. It makes things very simple indeed.
      If the car in front moves first to deny a line to the prospective overtaker that is called defending and is fine, but he is not allowed to move after the car behind has moved, that is called blocking and is illegal.

      Too simple for F1 I would guess, but apparently it works in Indycar.

      In the old days of course many laps could go by with one blocking the other, but that was in the day when a driver would brake instead of being run off track into gravel or catch fencing. Nowadays he maintains his diminishing line until he goes off, a result of increased driver safety and many paved run-off areas not to mention diminished common sense and pigheadedness.
      Also one suspects it is used as a contrived excuse for under performing when other mistakes have already been made. (Who could possibly do that I wonder?)

    3. This serves as a follow-up to my prior reply to your initial post. The title of the referenced link is:Schumacher’s Chequered History by Andrew Benson. In the piece, the Author presents a summation, in a structured format, of some of the chilling “Lowlights” of Michael’s career.

      For instance:In 2001 during the European Grand Prix at the Nurburgring, Ralph Schumacher made a good start while his brother Michael made a poor one. In order to stop Ralph from getting to turn one Michael veered across the track in front of Ralph giving Ralph the option of either backing off or kiss the wall.

      When he asked why was he so aggressive with Ralph? Michael responded that he is not in the business of giving gifts to anyone. As you will recall, throughout his career Michael utilized a wide array of aggressive defensive techniques in order to prevail .Max V appears to be emulating some of Michael’s MO.

      Max V’s behaviour at Spa, comparatively, is just as blood –curdling and as chilling as any selection from the menu of the “Lowlights” re Michael’s history. Further, during most races Max V squats in the middle of the track and with what appears to be lethal intent, strikes out at his prey to either back-off or crash. As Yogi Berra would say: it’s “Déjà Vu All Over Again”

      Notwithstanding all of the afore-noted on Tuesday I was stunned to see an article posted on a respected site (not a Blog) titled “Why Verstappen did nothing Wrong.” Amazing! I noticed that it was taken down on Wednesday. Posting such an article on that site is sad indeed

  23. While it’s certainly true that Max is bring out the Dutch fans, and Lewis the UK fans (and Nico the haters). I’m not certain that a Dutch GP necessarily makes a lot of sense for F1 as a whole. Would a Dutch GP result in a net increase in world-wide F1 race attendance, or would it simply pull ticket sales away from Belgium and Germany?

  24. If Imola could be in San Marino, Aberzijan in Europe, certainly Canada and Mexico could be considered in the US. (or the wording changed to North America).

    1. Sorry, but as a Canadian, I can’t let that pass unchallenged. Canada is not, and should not be considered, part of the USA. We were offered that option a couple of hundred years ago, and fought a war to avoid it. Soon after, we formed a new country to make the result stick. So thanks, but no thanks…

      1. Amen to that. One minor correction: We prevented the Americans from trying to militarily take over Canada twice; 1775-76 (Siege of Québec) and 1812-14 (War of 1812).

  25. Plenty of media pundits were ‘amazed’ when Ferrari decided to retain Kimi for another season, so I hope they’ll be equally amazed when McLaren announce their driver line-up next year!

    As Dario Franchitti tweeted in response to Toto Wolff’s recent provocative comments, “…seems what JB brings is always underestimated…many times we heard that team mate X was going to blow his doors off? Didn’t happen.” Button is doing extremely well alongside arguably the best driver on the grid, and it seems very sad to think he won’t get to drive a McLaren in 2017 that looks likely to be far more competitive.

    All this could be avoided if McLaren were prepared to loan Vandoorne to another team much as Mercedes are doing with Ocon and Wehrlein. Then both drivers would still be under McLaren contracts and Stoffel would have the chance to prove himself over the course of a season in F1 machinery. I cannot for the life of me understand why Ron Dennis is so resistant to this idea. For next year at least, it doesn’t have to be either Vandoorne OR Button – they could keep both.

    1. Until Honda start to supplie other teams McLarens options for developing young drivers are more limited than some other teams.

      1. Yes, ATH, but Ocon, a Mercedes driver, was/is with Renault. Red Bull’s Ricciardo drove for HRT even though they had Cosworth engines instead of Renault ones. The only thing stopping Vandoorne being loaned to another team is Ron Dennis.

          1. What I meant was, Mr Dennis seems to have been keen to part ways with Button for several years, but, based on what I have read, the other shareholders have scuppered this. He’s also said publicly that no other team will be able to have Vandoorne, so I assumed this was stating it’s a McLaren drive or nothing.

            But wow, I didn’t know that. Thanks for your insight Joe! Very interesting.

          2. Oh my, is that a tease of impending change (or trouble) at McLaren? Or is it just a general truth that not everything stays the same?

    2. Vandoorne has proven himself in Bahrain. I have long been a JB supporter, but if you have a young driver that competent ready to go, put him in the car…

      1. You say Vandoorne has proven himself well I think Button too has proven himself up against the highly regarded Alonso and developed the car using skills that Vandoorne, by the nature of experience, lacks. But the Verstappen factor is there to be seen and there is no doubt that youth is the future. JB was once that young star of the future….

  26. Back in the 80s I went to a Formula One GP at Jerez. It was about £40 for general admission and there were only about 20,000 in attendance as £40 was a lot for the locals to pay. A few months later they had Moto GP there at around a fiver a ticket and it was packed to the rafters with around 150,000 fans if memory serves. 150,000 fans spend a lot more on burgers, Tio Pepe and hats than 20,000.

    1. As a fellow resident of “the ‘diff”, I’d back Zandvoort or any other Dutch venue making it back onto the calendar for this reason alone.

    2. I went to Zandvoort last year, was amazed how easy it was from Amsterdam and Haarlem, a short walk to the track from Zandvoort station and how close it was to the beach, no wonder they used to have sand blowing everywhere ! Think the track needs some updating but looked like a good solid base to build on.

  27. Max Verstappen has most certainly burst on the scene in a spectacular way and there seems no doubt he appears to have all the gifts necessary to get right to the very top of the pile. Most dedicated followers of motor racing will appreciate the upside of ‘pushing the limits of what is acceptable’ and the notion of ‘that’s racing’. In that respect, Max is both exciting and refreshing.

    The risk, however, lies in the possibility that he will develop a sense of entitlement – in the way he conducts himself on track – such as was manifest with Senna and Schumacher. So far, it seems that Max may be cut from similar cloth.

    When I consider the best best our sport has produced over the years, the likes of Nuvolari, Caracciola, Fangio, Ascari, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton etc… I find I cannot bring myself to include Senna and Schumacher. I acknowledge both these gents were/are decent, intelligent, compassionate human beings but their frequent behaviour on track remains, to me, a factor that detracts from their completeness as a racing driver.

    Two of Max’s contemporaries are Alonso and Hamilton and I think no one will question the intensity of their will to win. Sure, both of them evinced immature behaviour when they were younger but there have been close to zero examples of Senna/Schumacher bully boy tactics on track during their time in Formula One. I always felt both Senna/Schumacher had far too much talent to need to taint it with on-track ugliness. There’s a lesson in there for Max.

    I know my position will be dismissed by many but sorry, I do think the matter of how you win is an important factor.

  28. Joe, if you say Max was going to make the Turn 1 corner A-OK, I believe you, because you were THERE.

    The trouble with the FOM footage from his onboard camera, even though I assume it was running from the beginning of the race, is that what they have released for the tv broadcast already shows the gap ahead of him was too tight for him to drive into.

    The side POV from the wall shows Kimi’s car’s nose ahead of Verstappen’s and looking best-placed the corner, and Vettel’s car ahead of Kimi’s, and cutting across too early.

    Though the Stewards have recently been ignoring first corner incidents, I hope someone points out to Vettel that he effectively did to Kimi and Max what he harangued Kyvat over in the cool down room when the Russian got his podium.

    Though I doubt Verstappen is in any danger of being demoted, I think his vociferous defending to his team and the media is because he is wary of what happened to Kvyat.
    Daniil getting Red Bull’s first podium, then just because the Golden Boy (Vettel) comes running to have a cry on Christian Horner’s shoulder, he gets demoted.

    Max will know there was more to it than that, but while he may not give a **** about Kimi, I have a feeling he may be more circumspect about Vettel.

    I’m not a driver, so it took me quite a while for me to work out what the hell the drivers and fans were on about with this moving in the braking zone business that Max is now infamous for…I’m beginning to think they may have a point.

    One of the commentators, Brundle possibly, said this desire to do this manoeuvre normally gets sorted out in the feeder categories, a lesson Max missed due to only having the one year in GP3. So it is dangerous NOW, but not so much at the lower speeds in the junior categories where it would seem like a handy move, and you would learn why it was not.

  29. Hi Joe,

    Thanks for your support of Max and a possible future Dutch GP, I attended many F1 races in the seventies and can confirm that coming to Zandvoort by train is very convenient indeed, the walk from the station to the track takes about 20 mins with plenty of food and merchandise stalls along the way.

    Rgds

    Frank Teeuwen
    Another Dutchman who enjoying F1 again

  30. I’m sure Bernie’s joy at seeing the Verstappen Effect take hold at Spa was short-lived when news came in that Margrethe Vestager, the woman assessing the Force India/Sauber competition complaint at the EU, has hammered Apple for £11bn in back taxes after ruling its deal in Ireland was unfair. And I thought Mosley’s $100m Spygate fine was a big deal.
    It’s a big if, but I wonder what the fallout will be if the Competition Commissioner finds for Force India and Sauber and decides to backdate their compensation.

  31. Vettel’s new whining; I think he has detected that the team need him to be vocal like that so that they feel he is as emotional and committed as any Italian.

    They got rid of the Iceman the first time because they were not getting the central strong man vibe they had with Schumacher, and then with Alonso.

    Plus in Ferarri, Arrivebene blew his nut if the drivers tried to blame the team for anything, and traditionally, you cannot criticise the car; other drivers, fair or not, are the next viable target.

    1. Actually no. They got rid of the Iceman the first time because Santander paid a mountain of cash to put their Spanish boy in a red car. Kimi was reportedly paid $20 million NOT to race that year, which would have been only $10 million if he raced with another team.

  32. You wonder how many more places there are around the world that can afford a grand prix for a few years and then lose interest in paying Bernie. Till that point Bernie is surely fine, but once that happens, will the bubble not have burst?

    1. If/when they do reach such a tipping point there will be special short-term deals for less money (and lot’s of fine print) to ensure the season stays at a certain number of events to maintain appearances. Then when someone comes along willing to pay more abruptly dump the cheap ones. Nothing personal it’s just business!

  33. I think most of the complains about the stewards are not about that they´re too much restrictive/unrestrictive, but about the lack of consistency.

    At other races, drivers got penalties for things that Verstappen did at Spa. Why not this time? Drivers don´t even know what they´re allowed to do. Maybe in the next race Verstappen will get a penalty and will complain: “hey, why so much buzz now, I had already done that at Spa”.

    1. telemaco, unfortunately with our restricted TV view we only see a small part of the information the stewards get. So seemingly similar events could be judged differently because when you look closely at all the available data they are different. What would be nice but unlikely is at the end of a the season a few ‘choice’ incidents have the discussions on why they were/were not punished released so we can see what the whole process was and why some were punished and some were not.

  34. While I thought the blocking of Kimi on the straight dodgy, what cheesed me off is Max driving Kimi of the road at the end of the straight was fine but when Rosberg made a great/exciting overtaking move in Germany with the same effect it was classed as illegal.

  35. Further to the comments above re the Verstappen defence on Raikkonen on the Kemmel straight, I am posting this one at the bottom of the thread.

    I am hoping that Joe is not addressing the issue because he is planning to write a blog post on the topic.

    I really feel that it was the biggest talking point of the race, and, especially in light of the excellent article in GP+ about the 1966 Belgian GP, the line between “hard but fair” and “dangerous” racing is about the most important topic there is to discuss on this forum.

    I feel passionately about it, as I’m sure Joe does. It is not even like me to comment on internet forums at all. It’s just not my “thing”. I am doing so because of my passion.

    I love hard but fair racing. I am a big Max Verstappen fan. But I also do not want to see any serious accidents happen. My personal view is that he should have been penalised, and that it would have helped make him a better driver in the long run.

    Joe, you clearly don’t share this view, and that is, of course, entirely fine. But I feel you have been very dismissive of my view, and of my approach to you – which, it should be noted, is on your own forum, in a manner which you encourage. I have tried to enter into a debate on precisely your own terms (which I know from having read these blog posts for a long time): calm, non-confrontational, reasoned and constructive. What more can I do?

    You may well not care one jot, but if you do not address this issue in more detail, I will feel rather let down, having invested time and money in your work. And, frankly, I will lose some of my considerable respect for you.

    I will also shut up and go away though, so feel free to dismiss me once again. Like you say… your house, your rules.

    1. You are quite entitled to have a view on this and other subjects. I do not agree with it. If you feel I have been dismissive it is probably because I do not have time to sit around and craft endless replies to every comment. If I did that I would never get any real work done. This is a free service and I simply do not have time to spend hours on it very day. Perhaps it would be better not to allow comments and that one the problem would be solved, but I am trying to engage with fans and this is why I do it. The problem is that I have to make a living as well as this blog pays nothing.

      1. I do get that. And don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the free service.

        But my question is a simple (but, I think, very important) one which should have been pretty quick to answer. I think it’s taken more of your time by not replying to it!

        I’ll go away now.

    2. bigrobmac…. if it helps you, it looks like after todays events at Monza, things may of been different at Spa if that time was replayed again…. the suggestion is that a black and white flag would of been shown to Max after the Kemmel straight incident. Source SkyF1, mentioned several times.

      Of course I cannot prove the above is 100% true but my gut feeling is that it probably correct.

  36. A Norwegian driver would help. Norway are the only country in Europe with the finances available to host easily. Plus, it’s a great place!

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